DB's PJ Thread

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dburna

DB's PJ Thread
« on: 7 May 2008, 10:22 pm »
Where would I start to research these if I wanted to go in that direction?
My house, on your next visit to STL. We can talk about adoptions, audio, and video.  :wink: :lol:

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Potential problems for my room: this would be deployed in a basement TV room that is thin (10' +/-), long (25-30') and with low ceilings (just under 7').  Mounting a projector at the back of the room doesn't seem feasible.  Mounting it in the ceiling might prove difficult because of the low-ish clearance.  Just not sure this would work in this configuration.  Any ideas on this?
Yup. It's possible.
One popular option for low ceilings would be to mount the projector (PJ) in a coffee table type situation. The cables can be 'snaked' under the carpet if need-be. Or....run the video feed straight back under one of the chairs with one of those "wires on the floor cover thingys" like you'd see in an office setting.

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* Microdisplay rear projector: 0.14 watt per square inch
* LCD: 0.29 watt per square inch
* Plasma: 0.35 watt per square inch
The cost for my rig is about 0.0265 watts per square inch.  8)
{210 watts. 5.5' X 10'} (the 5.5' is aprox)

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for your input on my TV search.  I didn't want to send the AC thread spiraling in another direction, but YOU were the one that brought up projector technology.   aa  I wanted to ask your advice on a couple of issues.  I saw that AC thread recently on the big price cuts that were upcoming in the flat-panel market and thought that perhaps it was time to move into the 21st century with our TV situation.   

Here are some of the constraints I would have:
1. Budget: wanted to spend somewhere in the $1500-1600 range.  Don't want to go too much higher.  For that price (and for comparison), a 46" plasma set (Panasonic or Samsung) is a possibility.  I'm assuming projectors could get me a larger picture, but could I stay within that budget and still get comparable picture quality?
2. Energy efficiency: this is where projectors have it all over the flat-panels, correct?
3. Screens: how much for a decent screen?  I would have to factor that in....
4. Picture quality: are projectors as good as their big-screen brethren?  Are they better?
5. If we went with a coffee table deployment, I assume we could put the projector away when we were through viewing?  My wife would probably like that.
6. Are projectors due for a similar price decrease as flat-panels?
7. Deployment vs. sound.  If we set up a coffee table deployment, how would we connect up to the stereo which is in the front of the room?  Long analog interconnects?  Or would the stereo need to move closer to the projector?  I'm a little uncertain here as to how this would work.
8. Technology: Do projectors use LCD technology?  Plasma?  Other?
9. Future direction: Are projectors improving in terms of picture quality as fast as the flat-panel market?
10. Lamp replacement: I've noticed that they need to be replaced every 2000 hours or so at approx. $400/pop.  Doesn't that make a projector more expensive in the long run?
11. Noise: if it has excessive fan noise, then this will blow the WAF factor despite the small size of the unit.

Sorry for so many questions, but there's so much I don't know about this topic.

Thanks, -dB
« Last Edit: 7 May 2008, 11:15 pm by dburna »

Bob in St. Louis

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DB's PJ Thread
« Reply #1 on: 7 May 2008, 11:00 pm »
Sorry for so many questions, but there's so much I don't know about this topic.
Please, never appologize for needing knowledge.  :wink:

I've got 15 minutes here at work before I clock out. I'll answer as many of the quick easy one's as I can tonight and the rest in the AM.

2. Energy efficiency: Yes. To the best of my knowledge, the PJ's beat the rest. Now.... I can check some of the popular model plasma/LCD tomorrow.

3. Screens Price: Screens can be had from zero dollars (shining on a wall) to $5,000 (for a 125" 16:9 electrical automatic ratio adjusting bla, bla, bla...
I DIY'd my 140" 16:9 for about $150. If you can build you own frame, a very nice material from DA-lite can be bought for about $300.

4. Picture quality: Well......quality depends on many factors for all pieces of equipment involved. But, YES, a PJ can have a stunning pcture quality. My Sanyo PLV-Z2 is 780p/1080i and looks pretty 'dern' good. Has impressed many folks. Again, you can see when you come over.  :wink:

5. Can you put the PJ "away" when not in use? Well, yea, but you'll quickly find that to be a PITA. There's more solutions, will get to that tomorrow.

6. Are projectors due for a similar price increase as flat-panels? ..... "increase??" No. They're getting cheaper all the time, just like any other electronic equipment.

8. Technology: Do projectors use LCD technology?......... The most common are LCD and DLP. There's others, but much less common.

10. Lamp replacement: ...$400/pop. ....This is one of my favorite questions.  aa I'll keep you in suspence overnight.

11. Noise: if it has excessive fan noise..... Mosts PJ's have multiple fan speeds, but db's are <30. Some of the new one's are in the mid twenties.

Gotta go. sorry for the typo's
Note to self: split topic for "DB's PJ info"  :lol:

Bob

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: DB's PJ Thread
« Reply #2 on: 8 May 2008, 07:39 pm »
Alright. You ready? Here we go: aa


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Here are some of the constraints I would have:
1. Budget: wanted to spend somewhere in the $1500-1600 range.  Don't want to go too much higher.  For that price (and for comparison), a 46" plasma set (Panasonic or Samsung) is a possibility.  I'm assuming projectors could get me a larger picture, but could I stay within that budget and still get comparable picture quality?
The budget isn't a problem. I'm fond of Sanyo, so that'll be my first recommendation. The "PLV-Z5" street price is $1,300. The unit is 1080p, so that'll take care of the High Def (HD) situation. Regarding picture quality compared to a 46" plasma, well..... I've never done an A/B against HD plasmas and Projectors (PJ). But I can't imagine anybody complaining much when staring at a 100"+ HD movie. Others may chime in and give more feedback here. But my PLV-Z2 is 720p/1080i and looks "freakin' great".
So, we've spent $1,300.....That leaves $200-$300 for a screen. That is very workable. Lots of possible solutions here, but for the price, most will include some DIY, some elbow grease, and will not have fancy bells and whistles like electric drop down. {In your PM, you said you'd show some photos of the room. Seeing these will help me decide what would work better for screen solutions. Also, I need some measurements from where the screen would be to approximately where the PJ would sit.}
Here's the specs on the Z2: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLV-Z5.htm


2. Energy efficiency: this is where projectors have it all over the flat-panels, correct?
Max power as listed on the above specs shows the unit consumes 210 watts. You'd have to check the specs on the flat panel you had in mind, but I think I'd be hard pressed to beat 210 watts. When you compare watts:square inches, then absolutely, the PJ's will kick the daylights out of any other type of display unit.


3. Screens: how much for a decent screen?  I would have to factor that in....
The last time I check, just the material from Da-Lite was somewhere about $325. But that was for my 140" 16:9. Can't remember which type of material that was, and they have many choices. I've seen guys paint their screens on plywood using special 'recipes' of multiple different colors. There's also 'special' paint called "screen Goo". At least that's what I think it's called, a google search may yield results.
Here's an article on building a 100" screen for $100: http://www.projectorcentral.com/diy_screen.htm


4. Picture quality: are projectors as good as their big-screen brethren?  Are they better?
See line #1.

5. If we went with a coffee table deployment, I assume we could put the projector away when we were through viewing?  My wife would probably like that.
She may, but you may very well get tired of having to go through "the ritual" just to watch a movie. Also, I'd worry about the longevity of the terminations/jacks after repeated connecting and disconnecting. But, the mobile presentation PJ's are abused heavily and seem to take the abuse. So....??? Might just work???
One possibility: You could build a nice looking box to set under the coffee table and put the PJ inside, but proper ventilation would have to be taken into consideration.
You mentioned your ceiling is 7'? You could mount it there, but absolute best case scenario would still hang down 6" or so.

6. Are projectors due for a similar price decrease as flat-panels?
Prices for all electronics come down almost weekly. I was looking at the PLV-Z5 not too long ago and it was $2500. The same hold true whether you're looking at computers, PJ's, plasmas, or microwave ovens. The recent "price war" on some of the 'flatties' happens occasionally, but I don't see any signs the PJ's will have a drastic drop anytime soon. As the popularity increases, and manufacturer bide for our spending dollar, and as technology improves, the prices of every PJ will fall quickly. But again, this holds true for most electronics.


7. Deployment vs. sound.  If we set up a coffee table deployment, how would we connect up to the stereo which is in the front of the room?  Long analog interconnects?  Or would the stereo need to move closer to the projector?  I'm a little uncertain here as to how this would work.
Your audio wiring will not change (that is, unless you want to use the speakers built into the flat panel). Basically, run the video feed from your DVD/TV source straight to your HT receiver (then to the PJ), or if you're not using a receiver you'd run the video right to the PJ from the DVD/TV. {I/we can help more knowing what kind of equipment you've got and how your room is physically set-up.}

8. Technology: Do projectors use LCD technology?  Plasma?  Other?
The two most common technologies are LCD and DLP. There's a few others, but are either very uncommon, or very expensive......Or both.


9. Future direction: Are projectors improving in terms of picture quality as fast as the flat-panel market?
Um....Not sure what you mean here. The 1080p (high def) is readily available for PJ's. Screen material also makes a difference in picture quality as well. "Screens" and the material they're made of are the videophiles version of wire tweaks. Some guys play with their screens as often as audio guys swap out their wires.
Regarding PJ's "improving in terms of picture quality as fast as the flat-panel market", as far as I know, they're right there with the 'flatties'. (Just much bigger)  8)


10. Lamp replacement: I've noticed that they need to be replaced every 2000 hours or so at approx. $400/pop.  Doesn't that make a projector more expensive in the long run?
Aahhh yessss.....The inevitable question.  :lol:
I've got *about* 1,500 hours on my bulb (lamp as they're 'officially' called) and have been casually searching for "the best deal" on a new lamp. Just because I want to have a second one ready when it's needed. As of a couple weeks ago, the cost of my lamp is $270. Now, in 1,500 hours you could say I've watched 750 movies that are two hours in lengh. That works out to be $0.36 per movie. BUT WAIT......My lamp isn't dead yet! So that .36 will go down every time I watch a movie. For those among us that can't afford to buy a couple hundred dollar bulb, they could put a piggy bank in their HT room and drop twenty five cents for every movie they watch.  :wink:
Here's a short little article that quickly justifies the added cost of lamp replacement: http://www.projectorcentral.com/replacement_lamps.htm
{Keep in mind the article is four years old and the bulb prices are a little lower now-a-days}.


11. Noise: if it has excessive fan noise, then this will blow the WAF factor despite the small size of the unit.
Most projectors have two modes of operation. One mode kicks up the brightness (for non-ambient light controlled rooms). Which, of course causes more heat, there-by kicking the fan into a higher speed. The second mode is sometimes called "theater mode" or "eco-mode". The brightness is lowered to a reasonable level and the fan speed is reduced. The advertised noise level of the Z5 is 22DB in eco-mode. That's not bad. Especially if the unit has been installed in some form of "hush box" to silence it even further.

Enough for now. My fingers hurt.
Get me some photos and a couple measurements and we'll talk further.

Bob