What's this?

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Vapor Audio

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What's this?
« on: 5 Dec 2014, 05:05 am »
It looks like a Joule, but has the smaller 70-20XR RAAL ... so what is it?

Well, it began life as a Cirrus Black.  Then the customer sent it back to us for some 'upgrades', this is the result.  And what makes it exciting is it's an upgrade package we can offer to any Cirrus Black/White owner.  Send us your Cirrus and we add the Transmission Line bass section along with an all new 3-way crossover, you get back a true full-range reference level loudspeaker.  They come very close to a from scratch Joule Black, close enough that I'm just sitting here listening with a smile on my face, not even thinking about differences. 

Pricing is yet to be finalized but will likely start in the $8k range for the upgrade package, with many possible options.

« Last Edit: 5 Dec 2014, 05:44 pm by Vapor Audio »

Vapor Audio

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #1 on: 5 Dec 2014, 05:30 pm »
Been listening to these more today and really enjoying what I'm hearing.  The upgrade path we think will be very appreciated by customers.  Start with a Cirrus to fit space and budget, then in future you have this option to turn them into an end-of-the-road speaker. 

BTW, this pair is going to Atlanta and is fitted with the new Duelund RS capacitors. 

spreadspectrum

Re: What's this?
« Reply #2 on: 5 Dec 2014, 06:51 pm »
As usual, very nice looking speaker and indeed a great upgrade path.

I am curious if you have any more thoughts on the Duelund RS caps - particularly how they compare to the CAST variant.  I have heard good things about them...

Ryan

TF1216

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #3 on: 5 Dec 2014, 07:15 pm »
Wonderful idea to offer the upgrade  :thumb:

Vapor Audio

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #4 on: 5 Dec 2014, 07:26 pm »
This is the pair of Cirrus Black they started out as.  Re-veneer and refinish, repaint the fronts, and cleaned up anything that needed cleaning.  So while we are able to re-use the drivers and cabinets, they're essentially a brand new pair of speakers. 




barrows

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #5 on: 5 Dec 2014, 07:39 pm »
Ryan, well done.  That is a fantastic upgrade path to offer customers.  After loving the sound of the Joule Black at RMAF, and now seeing this option, I am seriously considering a pair of Cirrus Blacks as my next speaker, followed by this upgrade when funds might allow it.

Vapor Audio

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #6 on: 9 Dec 2014, 03:15 am »
Ryan, well done.  That is a fantastic upgrade path to offer customers.  After loving the sound of the Joule Black at RMAF, and now seeing this option, I am seriously considering a pair of Cirrus Blacks as my next speaker, followed by this upgrade when funds might allow it.

Give me a call sometime so I can let you know what's possible. 

The 140-15D RAAL in the Joule is definitely better, not night and day but the bigger one does remove that last bit of 'sense of strain' that you didn't even realize was there until hearing both.  Also we have and can use a different woofer in a Cirrus Black build with the new AudioTech LR motor.  The mid in the Joule Black has the LR motor, in the Cirrus it's an option.  The drivers may look the same on the outside, but they're completely different.  So while the Cirrus woofer is a mid/bass and the Joule uses a dedicated midrange, we can put together a Cirrus Black with future upgrade in mind that when done, will be almost identical to a from-scratch Joule build.

Pete Schumacher

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #7 on: 9 Dec 2014, 11:36 pm »
I finally got my chance to listen to these before being crated and shipped today. 

Audio Technology is as good as it gets.  Pers Skaaning is an artist! 

It doesn't seem to matter whether it's a 10" woofer or a 6" mid, his drivers are the most controlled, refined, and revealing, a true pleasure to work with and listen through.

The sound stage is very spacious and vocal presentation is a "real" as can be.  I do notice that the Joule high end has just a touch more "life" thanks to the flagship RAAL, but as Ryan said, if you didn't know, you'd never notice.

I'm excited for the Cirrus owners out there who now have a way to turn their monitors into true full-range 3-ways.

Eugene2

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #8 on: 10 Dec 2014, 03:02 am »
I'll come out of my den of silence, I have heard the joule, and wanted to upgrade.  I figure to get as close to the stock Joule I'd get the best caps I could afford, so with the Dueland RS caps installed it should be good.   Though it's not the Raal 140-15D, don't sell it short, here is a direct quote from RAAL website (70-20XR), "the exact process of making it, will remain a well kept secret. Being different than anything else, including other RAAL models, 140-15D and 70-10, it is available only to manufacturers, only under previously signed Non Disclosure Agreement".  So RAAL takes special pride in its design.
Klaus at Odyssey has my Kismet integrated and he is upgrading it to a dual mono version which will have two of his very special Kismet amps and an outboard power supply.  Until it's ready I'll have the very special Nuforce IDA 16 doing light duty, PS Audio PWT and DSD and hook up wire will be Mike Powell's  Verastarr Grand Illusion silver cable (same cable Ryan uses at shows).  I'm working on my computer audio right now using a 2011 IMac with powered USB into the DSD.  We'll see once the speakers arrive.  I call them Joule 1.5s between the joule 1.0 and the big Joule or 2.0  :D

Vapor Audio

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #9 on: 10 Dec 2014, 05:49 am »
I call them Joule 1.5s between the joule 1.0 and the big Joule or 2.0  :D

Actually they're more like a Joule 1.95  :)

They're really very close.  The top end is a hair less easy, natural, flowing, effortless ... and the midrange is a bit fuller and thicker, but I wouldn't call it any less enjoyable, just different. 

End result is these have the same effect as a full-on Joule, they put people in the room with you.  They take you deep into the recording and deliver it with all the power and emotion you want, and they have that ahhh feeling like a warm blanket being pulled over you.   

Thank you again Mike for giving us the opportunity to put these together for you. 

dpatters

Re: What's this?
« Reply #10 on: 10 Dec 2014, 01:09 pm »
I'll come out of my den of silence, I have heard the joule, and wanted to upgrade.  I figure to get as close to the stock Joule I'd get the best caps I could afford, so with the Dueland RS caps installed it should be good.   Though it's not the Raal 140-15D, don't sell it short, here is a direct quote from RAAL website (70-20XR), "the exact process of making it, will remain a well kept secret. Being different than anything else, including other RAAL models, 140-15D and 70-10, it is available only to manufacturers, only under previously signed Non Disclosure Agreement".  So RAAL takes special pride in its design.
Klaus at Odyssey has my Kismet integrated and he is upgrading it to a dual mono version which will have two of his very special Kismet amps and an outboard power supply.  Until it's ready I'll have the very special Nuforce IDA 16 doing light duty, PS Audio PWT and DSD and hook up wire will be Mike Powell's  Verastarr Grand Illusion silver cable (same cable Ryan uses at shows).  I'm working on my computer audio right now using a 2011 IMac with powered USB into the DSD.  We'll see once the speakers arrive.  I call them Joule 1.5s between the joule 1.0 and the big Joule or 2.0  :D
Congratulations on a fantastic upgrade! I can't wait to hear your impressions. I know I'm enjoying my Joule Blacks more and more every day. As soon as I
get home from work I get those tunes fired up.  I've even been watching football without the audio and have been playing music instead.  I have never done
that before.

Happy Listening!

Don

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #11 on: 10 Dec 2014, 03:30 pm »
Congratulations on a fantastic upgrade! I can't wait to hear your impressions. I know I'm enjoying my Joule Blacks more and more every day. As soon as I
get home from work I get those tunes fired up.  I've even been watching football without the audio and have been playing music instead.  I have never done
that before.

Happy Listening!

Don

Watching sports with your own music (and thus killing the incessant babble of the commenters) is an incredible experience.  It becomes almost zen, as you really become aware of the natural rhythm of the game, without all that chatter to distract you.

Eugene2

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #12 on: 10 Dec 2014, 04:47 pm »
Actually they're more like a Joule 1.95  :)

They're really very close.  The top end is a hair less easy, natural, flowing, effortless ... and the midrange is a bit fuller and thicker, but I wouldn't call it any less enjoyable, just different. 

End result is these have the same effect as a full-on Joule, they put people in the room with you.  They take you deep into the recording and deliver it with all the power and emotion you want, and they have that ahhh feeling like a warm blanket being pulled over you.   

Thank you again Mike for giving us the opportunity to put these together for you.
The Raal with more surface area makes a difference, since this Cirrus has the 7″ custom Audio Technology 18H SDKM Midrange with LR motor (same as Joule), you are hearing the transition from mid woofer to Raal I guess.  Also, what were your impressions on the Dueland RS in this setup?  I think someone asked that earlier, I think it went unanswered... :)

Randy

Re: What's this?
« Reply #13 on: 10 Dec 2014, 06:43 pm »
Watching sports with your own music (and thus killing the incessant babble of the commenters) is an incredible experience.  It becomes almost zen, as you really become aware of the natural rhythm of the game, without all that chatter to distract you.

Ha. I do that too. Schumann and Schubert (and just about anyone's else's music) go well with the NFL.

Factorz

Re: What's this?
« Reply #14 on: 11 Dec 2014, 04:09 pm »
Love it! Great to know I have a upgrade path with my speakers.

Cheeseboy

Re: What's this?
« Reply #15 on: 21 Dec 2014, 02:06 am »
I've been thinking of going back to a bookshelf type of speaker.  After hearing Phil's red Joules is there a chance that you might just make the tweeter and mid unit in a full range configuration.  I mean as full as you can.  The Joules are a very special speaker.  Phil's are the accuton version.  I have not heard voices reproduced in quite that kind of detail.  It was a brand new day!  or stating it another way "How about a nice Cirrus Black with the larger RAAL."  I don't know if my budget would warrant the Duelands but the equity in my home should be paying dividends by the springtime.  The big RAAL tweeter is just so graceful and easy to listen to as it shimmers with detail. 

SoCalWJS

Re: What's this?
« Reply #16 on: 21 Dec 2014, 02:30 am »
I've been thinking of going back to a bookshelf type of speaker.  After hearing Phil's red Joules is there a chance that you might just make the tweeter and mid unit in a full range configuration.  I mean as full as you can.  The Joules are a very special speaker.  Phil's are the accuton version.  I have not heard voices reproduced in quite that kind of detail.  It was a brand new day!  or stating it another way "How about a nice Cirrus Black with the larger RAAL."  I don't know if my budget would warrant the Duelands but the equity in my home should be paying dividends by the springtime.  The big RAAL tweeter is just so graceful and easy to listen to as it shimmers with detail.
A Cirrus on steroids - Super Cirrus +  :thumb:

How much bigger is the larger RAAL? Would it necessitate a larger cabinet or any other changes? Xover?

Pete Schumacher

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #17 on: 21 Dec 2014, 03:32 pm »
A Cirrus on steroids - Super Cirrus +  :thumb:

How much bigger is the larger RAAL? Would it necessitate a larger cabinet or any other changes? Xover?

The larger RAAL is 3" taller but there's room on the current Cirrus cabinet to allow it to fit.  The crossover is different than the 70-20XR of course, but just as simple. 

Vapor Audio

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Re: What's this?
« Reply #18 on: 21 Dec 2014, 05:00 pm »
I've been thinking of going back to a bookshelf type of speaker.  After hearing Phil's red Joules is there a chance that you might just make the tweeter and mid unit in a full range configuration.  I mean as full as you can.  The Joules are a very special speaker.  Phil's are the accuton version.  I have not heard voices reproduced in quite that kind of detail.  It was a brand new day!  or stating it another way "How about a nice Cirrus Black with the larger RAAL."  I don't know if my budget would warrant the Duelands but the equity in my home should be paying dividends by the springtime.  The big RAAL tweeter is just so graceful and easy to listen to as it shimmers with detail.

Thanks for the impressions, it sounds like you get it!  That articulation you noticed is a culmination of many things, drivers used are of course a large part of it, but also the lengths we go with cabinet design and construction. 

Yes, we can build a Cirrus with Joule upgrade in mind.  In fact I have been planning to redesign the Cirrus to be just that - with the 140-15D tweeter standard, and a LR motor version of the AudioTechnology 7" woofer.  To get bass out of the woofer, it wouldn't be the exact same version as used in the Joule midrange, but it would be close.  The differences are it would be a bit less sensitive, have a longer voice coil with more throw, and a thicker cone.  All of those things are necessary to get meaningful bass.  But that's why working with AudioTechnology has been such a great relationship, customizing drivers to specific needs is no problem. 

Since I have been planning to do that to the Cirrus, if somebody wants to be the first, contact me for special pricing! 

Regarding Duelunds, with the new RS out, you can get CAST performance for about 1/2 the cost.  They're a great option. 

SoCalWJS

Re: What's this?
« Reply #19 on: 22 Dec 2014, 05:36 pm »
Thanks for the impressions, it sounds like you get it!  That articulation you noticed is a culmination of many things, drivers used are of course a large part of it, but also the lengths we go with cabinet design and construction. 

Yes, we can build a Cirrus with Joule upgrade in mind.  In fact I have been planning to redesign the Cirrus to be just that - with the 140-15D tweeter standard, and a LR motor version of the AudioTechnology 7" woofer.  To get bass out of the woofer, it wouldn't be the exact same version as used in the Joule midrange, but it would be close.  The differences are it would be a bit less sensitive, have a longer voice coil with more throw, and a thicker cone.  All of those things are necessary to get meaningful bass.  But that's why working with AudioTechnology has been such a great relationship, customizing drivers to specific needs is no problem. 

Since I have been planning to do that to the Cirrus, if somebody wants to be the first, contact me for special pricing! 

Regarding Duelunds, with the new RS out, you can get CAST performance for about 1/2 the cost.  They're a great option.
Very tempting Ryan!
Do you have a rough guesstimate for the bottom end -3db point for that?
I'm between a rock and a hard place currently. We're moving and I don't think my "Frankenspeakers" are going to work here, so I'm looking at different options. In a perfect world I'd end up with a Monitor setup (replacing the LS 6's) and pull the OB Woofs out of the Super V's to use for bass (that flat pack H-frame).
Purely exploring at this point - too early in the game to commit to anything.