AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: putz on 18 Nov 2017, 10:48 pm
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I'd like to try the Gaia's on my HT3s. They've been getting many rave reviews. I'll be sure to report back my experience if I get a set.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-ii/ (http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-ii/)
Not sure what the thread size is for the HT3 footers. The Gaia's come in M8, M6 and ¼-20 thread sizes. They also have alternate thread sizes available but I'm not sure which ones they have.
If anyone knows the correct thread size for the HT3s, please respond.
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I'm not sure the plinths have threaded inserts. If they do I would expect 1/4-20 to be the thread. The plinths attach to the speakers typically with 5/16 threaded bolts.
You could engineer new locations with threaded inserts. Just stay at least 1.5 diameters away from the original hole.
I need III's for my Exoticas. $800 per speaker!
In the mean time I am using Symposium Fat Padz as a cheaper alternative.
http://www.symposiumusa.com/fatpadz.html
Jim has experienced the positive effects of isolation treatments with the demo at Capital AF.
http://www.ginkgoaudio.com/2017/10/02/2017audioshows/
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I got some Gaia's for my SS-10's when I was at the RMAF because of a demonstration they had there. By FAR the best tweek I have ever tried. The bass is much tighter, goes lower, no boom and the imaging is crazy good. The threads are 3/8-16 and have to be special ordered, but at no extra cost. Since the Ht3's have only three feet you need to make sure that only three will support the weight, they are rated for four feet. I was so impressed that I ordered a set of Gaia II's for my HT-2 TL's. It has been 5 weeks since I ordered them and still nothing. I got tired of waiting and did some looking around and found some industrial vibration isolators from Zorro distributors, part number 2NPC4 Vibration Isolator. They only cost about 5.50 each and did the same basic thing to the sound. The only problem is that I had to install them between the existing spikes and the cabinet, it raised the speaker about 1.5" and the speaker is a little wobbly:) No kids around so no problem. There is also a company called Herbies Audio Lab that sells isolators at a much better price. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/
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One more thing, the Gaia's come in sets of four. I ordered three sets of Gaia I's and did both of my sets of SS-10's with them through a Colorado company called Listen Up. I got a 20% RMAF discount and that made each speaker set cost $750. Expensive, but I wouldn't give them back for twice that. The sales person I used was Scott Genaw. If you found someone else that wanted to go in with you, you could reduce the overall cost and not have two extras laying around. I am pretty sure you will need the Gaia 1's for your Ht-3's.
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Those industrial isolators can be found for $0.49 each.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8
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That is a different isolator but might do the same thing. They are rated at 50psi and the stock spikes might overload them. The2NPC4 isolator has two 3/8-16 studs sticking out of them so they mate solidly between the spikes and speakers. They are rated at 180 lbs each.
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One more thing, the Gaia's come in sets of four. I ordered three sets of Gaia I's and did both of my sets of SS-10's with them through a Colorado company called Listen Up. I got a 20% RMAF discount and that made each speaker set cost $750. Expensive, but I wouldn't give them back for twice that. The sales person I used was Scott Genaw. If you found someone else that wanted to go in with you, you could reduce the overall cost and not have two extras laying around. I am pretty sure you will need the Gaia 1's for your Ht-3's.
Thanks for the tip on Listen Up. The Gaia 2s are rated up to 120 lbs (30 per foot) and the HT3s weigh 87 lbs with 3 feet, so I should be good. I'll verify with manufacturer to be sure.
My plan was to leave the plinths on the HT3s as is and just replace the current feet with the Gaia's. Its been a while since I've played with the Salk feet so I don't remember how the feet/plinth/bottom of speakers are connected. I'll ask Jim or tip one on its side and figure it out for myself.
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Looks like you are good with three Gaia II's. I have a set of Ht-3's and they seemed heavier than that:) I am going to use the 2NPC4 isolators on them when I get my set of Gaia II's for my Ht-2's. The Ht-2's are in an all tube system and it doesn't have enough power to run the Ht-3's. The Ht-3's are my recording studio mixing monitors. I ordered a box of the supply house isolators to try out on my components vs the isolators from Herbie's audio lab. I will post my findings when they arrive.
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I tried Herbie's Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders under my Salks and they didn't work for me. I have carpeted floors over hardwood. Tamed the sound too much.
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The HT3 spike inserts are 3/8-16. If you can't get that thread size, just replace the inserts on the plinth with the size you need.
- Jim
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Those industrial isolators can be found for $0.49 each.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8
I use these as my speakers and the results were profound!
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I've tried the cork version and they didn't do much for me. Perhaps the slightly more expensive vibration pads will be more effective. If you do go that route, I'd gladly mail you 8 of the cork for comparison purposes.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8
Cheers,
Lester
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Those industrial isolators can be found for $0.49 each.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8
The same brand is available from Amazon for those who prefer to purchase there. Both cork and the blue (E.V.A.) material versions are available. I purchased 4x4 E.V.A. for my washer and dryer. Floor is tile over concrete. Worked great on my dryer but the washing machine had a fit and shook like a go-go dancer. :o And yes, the washer was balanced and leveled before. Washer is a top-loader
The distributor for the Gaia products told me they work best in the middle of their range so consider that when ordering.
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Big score! Two sets of Gaia I's for $850 on Audiogon. Just what I needed. So perhaps next week I can see if they take this up another notch from the Fatpadz.
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Big score! Two sets of Gaia I's for $850 on Audiogon. Just what I needed. So perhaps next week I can see if they take this up another notch from the Fatpadz.
So you're the one that beat me to it 8)
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Big score! Two sets of Gaia I's for $850 on Audiogon. Just what I needed. So perhaps next week I can see if they take this up another notch from the Fatpadz.
Let us know how they work. Wish I had attended RMAF to see/hear the demo. I have Pioneer S1X and I'm scratching my head about how to use them with my speakers.
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You may need to contact the manufacture to get the right studs to fit your speakers. I didn't see the listing to know what studs were included. I have one extra set of four if you need them. Great deal on those:)
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Each factory set is supposed to be delivered with three different thread sizes included.
GAIA I comes with M12, M8 and ¼-20
GAIA II and Gaia III come with M8, M6 and ¼-20 thread sizes
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The distributor for the Gaia products told me they work best in the middle of their range so consider that when ordering.
Huh?
Really?
So if someone has 100lb speakers, and would naturally think the GAIA II’s with a 120lb limit is the one to get...but your saying the sweet-spot of best performance for that model would be a 60lb speaker??
Crazy.
I’d was ready to buy but spending for the big ones is not what I was thinking...
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Huh?
Really?
So if someone has 100lb speakers, and would naturally think the GAIA II’s with a 120lb limit is the one to get...but your saying the sweet-spot of best performance for that model would be a 60lb speaker??
Crazy.
I’d was ready to buy but spending for the big ones is not what I was thinking...
jriggy, I am not sure so you should check with someone who knows but I think your cup may be half empty. The range for the GAIA IIs might be considered from 70-120 with the GAIA III being for 70 and under. But of course that puts 70 pound speakers at the upper limit of the GAIAIII. So :scratch: I am just repeating what I was told. I did not question it further. You do bring up an interesting point. I don't think you should consider the range to be from zero to the max rated.
But I think the point is GAIAs still work within their range. Is it surprising that they would work differently with different weight? I think that would be expected.
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You may need to contact the manufacture to get the right studs to fit your speakers. I didn't see the listing to know what studs were included. I have one extra set of four if you need them. Great deal on those:)
I should be golden. I built my steel plinths with 1/4-20 threads and attached my copper "feet" (balls) with stainless 1/4-20 set screws so I could attach one from the top and one from the bottom. So if the screws are long enough I can grab my upper copper ball. If not I should be able to reuse my set screws.
Sorry Tom!!
Forgot to add, my speakers typically weigh in at 135 lbs., but with two cabinets and my added lead weights to the uppers to secure them from rattling, they are probably 150 lbs. each. So I agree that going into the midrange is probably better and we will have to see what sort of performance I get. They will certainly look better than the Fatpadz but not as good as my copper balls. Way easier to move around which I am still doing now and then.
The seller is a real sweatheart and did get to listen to Exotica 3's at CAF so he at least respects what can be accomplished after seeing the Arc demo by Ginkgo under the Song 3's.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171676)
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jriggy, I am not sure so you should check with someone who knows but I think your cup may be half empty. The range for the GAIA IIs might be considered from 70-120 with the GAIA III being for 70 and under. But of course that puts 70 pound speakers at the upper limit of the GAIAIII. So :scratch: I am just repeating what I was told. I did not question it further. You do bring up an interesting point. I don't think you should consider the range to be from zero to the max rated.
But I think the point is GAIAs still work within their range. Is it surprising that they would work differently with different weight? I think that would be expected.
Thanks for straightening out my thoughts on the math... yes, IF true, shooting for middle of 70 to 120 for a set of GAIA II’s makes sense. I’m at 102lb with my speakers, so that’s pretty close to center range.
I did contact ISOacoustics and got a responce within a few hours or so. The responder said “No I would not
say that is true that the units work best in the middle of their weight range.”
But I lean towards what you were told by the distributor...with their construction (rubber compound like the other ISO offerings?), it is not surprising that a set of GAIAs might work differently with diferent weights.
I am going to wait and see if there is a coupon code or sale for Cruchfield coming up this weekend and order sets for my Daedalus Argos.
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BRM,
It will be sad to see your copper balls go. :lol:
I will be using the GAIAs on outrigger bars, so I’m curious where you got your tapped balls?
Would be cool if I could do the same w/ the dark chrome or somthing similar to cover and finish the top of the screw.
Jason
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But I lean towards what you were told by the distributor...with their construction (rubber compound like the other ISO offerings?), it is not surprising that a set of GAIAs might work differently with diferent weights.
Exactly. Otherwise just make one size fits all. Once again, size matters. :lol:
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BRM,
It will be sad to see your copper balls go. :lol:
I will be using the GAIAs on outrigger bars, so I’m curious where you got your tapped balls?
Would be cool if I could do the same w/ the dark chrome or somthing similar to cover and finish the top of the screw.
Jason
They were plating balls for plating tanks. My home laptop would have the site address in some favorite folder I am sure. Otherwise you'll have to search for chrome balls. I drilled and tapped the copper, they were not perfectly round and smooth as you could see they were cast in a simple mold like a muzzle loader might use for ammo, only mucho larger. The bottom balls are 2 inches in diameter.
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Thanks!
I see there’s a bunch of taped balls out there to finish this look. Can’t wait to get the GAIA II’s here.
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https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-isolation-feet-2017-11-20-accessories
Gaia III's for sale
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https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-isolation-feet-2017-11-20-accessories
Gaia III's for sale
Need the II's :cry:
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So a friend stopped by today with 6 Gaia 3's to try under various components. We tried them at my house and another friends house under 2 Preamps, 1 Dac and 2 Phono Preamps. Both systems are top notch and all the components already had other aftermarket isolation devices under them.
We listened to the same recordings, first without the Gaia's and then added one set of 3 and then the second set of 3 under a second component. Each time the sound got noticeably better to all 3 of us.
If any of you are acquiring Gaia's for your speakers, I'd like you to first try them as we did above and let us know if you hear a difference. At $50 a piece, the Gaia 3's are a reasonably priced tweak. They're rated for 70 pounds per a set of 4, so that should cover all but the heaviest amps. As far as I know the Gaia 1's and 2's should perform the same way with the main difference being their ability to handle more weight. We intend to speak to the manufacturer to confirm this. I know of at least one high end equipment manufacturer who will be using them as footers for all their components going forward.
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Are you saying you installed GAIA footers in place of stock feet on components? Or you used them without the threaded inserts, with the component resting on top of the GAIA footers?
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Are you saying you installed GAIA footers in place of stock feet on components? Or you used them without the threaded inserts, with the component resting on top of the GAIA footers?
The components just rested on top of the Gaia's. The Gaia's were tall enough so that the existing footers were left attached but did not make contact with the surface.
If you want to attach the Gaia to a component as a permanent footer, you would need to get the right size thread. Doing that "might" produce additional sonic improvements.
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All my comments are about the Gaia by IsoAcoustics.
I have tried many types of isolators and/or vibration control over the years. Most did make a difference but they also made a negative overall impact in the sound. So not worthwhile.
Only a few made a worthwhile improvement overall.
This is whether under a speaker or equipment.
I recently had the opportunity to try the Gaia under various types of equipment and can highly recommend them.
I tried the Gaia in three different systems and with several different audio buddies. They were tried under several types of equipment.
From a passive preamplifier, active preamplifier, two phono preamplifiers, two DACs, and several amplifiers both stereo and mono blocks. Price of equipment ranged from a few thousand to over twelve thousand dollars.
All agreed that the Gaia made a positive overall improvement in every case.
Now the Gaia were just placed under each of the equipment (three Gaia per equipment) so there should be a slight additional improvement using them attached and in place of the equipments original footers.
I also want to add that we tried them under a passive type power conditioner that already has anti-vibration built into it. Again it made an improvement.
I hope this helped.
Al Mirabella
Ambassador, Sound Galleries & Taiko Audio
Sound Test USA
al.mirabella@soundtest.info
PS at this moment I have no financial interests in IsoAcoustics.
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Thanks Al, interesting to hear.
How did you like the Gaia under speakers?
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That is still to come. I had borrowed six Gaia III from a friend who uses them on all his equipment that he builds and sells. He is an OEM.
I do plan to give them a try on my speakers but that may not happen till after the holidays.
When I do try them I will post my impressions.
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I installed the Gaia I's just 30 minutes ago. I have last night's SPL trace with just my hard copper feet touching the floor and without the Symposium Fatpadz under the feet.
I see no difference in SPL performance between with and without. Pink is Gaia.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172405)
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Yes, but what do you hear?
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Hi Big Red.
First, are you using the Carpet Spike “adapters” that IsoAcoustics recommends to use with the Gaia when using them on carpets? If not and you don’t have them you can try putting your Gaia on top of a heavy butcher blocks or a large piece of marble or tile etc.
Second, I highly doubt that you will be able to use that measurement in this situation to show whether it makes an audible difference.
Third, did you hear anything?
Cheers, Al.
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Laminate flooring.
I'm not hearing anything new or different on first blush.
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Please excuse my questioning of how you are using the Gaia. I just want to make sure that you are using them properly.
When attaching the Gaia to your speakers did you make sure that the logos on the footers are all facing forward. The logos must face forward and on all the footers, otherwise the will not work as well.
It is also my understanding that they do tend to settle over several hours so it might take more than a first blush.
Of course you might just not benefit from them.
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I installed the Gaia I's just 30 minutes ago. I have last night's SPL trace with just my hard copper feet touching the floor and without the Symposium Fatpadz under the feet.
I see no difference in SPL performance between with and without. Pink is Gaia.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172405)
SPL measurements will not show changes in clarity. They will only display sound levels of any type, including smeared, and distorted sounds.
On my end, I’ve tried various spikes, cones, and anti-vibration pads, and it shocks me how much the sound changes. What’s worse is that nothing sounds better than my stock Salk cones floating on my carpet. You’re situation is obviously very different. I just wanted to share.
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Laminate flooring.
I'm not hearing anything new or different on first blush.
Upon extended blushing, do you have a final verdict on the Gaia's?
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No difference. I strongly believe I don't need them now that I have moved my speakers and chair (mainly) to a better location and I now avoid the worst humps and dips in the room.
I like the look of them and the speakers are stuck to the floor because they are like mini suction cups. So I might keep them just because they are nice looking.
With further tweaking my SPL looks like this:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172826)
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Nice work Pete. Too bad the Gaia’s didn’t improve the sound. I was more than curious myself.
How far did you move the speakers and/or listening position?
How accurately placed are your speakers to your listening position? Within an 1/8”? Better?
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A little off topic: I'm ordering a set of Modular 2X2 for my speakers.
Isoacoustic stands made for speakers. Speakers are 110 lbs.
Don
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Really strange you didn't hear any difference with the Gaia's. I have used them on three sets of Sallk speakers now and the difference is amazing. Even my wife, who isn't an audio geek, said she could hear about a 20% improvement. Did you hear any difference when you first installed your outriggers?
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Is it worth mentioning that you, BRM, augmented the floor under the two speaker locations with something during the build of your room? Or am I mistaken?
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Is it worth mentioning that you, BRM, augmented the floor under the two speaker locations with something during the build of your room? Or am I mistaken?
Yes, but the speakers have always been on a portion of that then and now. They're pushed back to the very limits of it near the front wall.
Guys, I think these devices can help, especially if the speakers are susceptible to vibrations, etc. My Exoticas improved when I put the rubber wafers under the feet and then the nicer looking Symposiums gave the same performance. Cleaned up the mids, etc. They were also in the bad spot.
My speakers are very heavy as I have lead weights in the uppers and the plinths are 3/8 steel with heavy copper feet. But, moving my chair more than 2 feet forward and the speakers almost the same backward put me out of the nasty intersection of several room modes. No isolation feet would make that much difference and then when you have better response, there is way less need to isolate the speakers from the "room".
Remember, I made room measurements w/o the Symposiums and placed them without. Then I added the Iso units at their final spot and there was no SPL difference. It was easier to adjust the speakers around the room w/o having to also slide the Symposiums with them simultaneously.
The speakers are within a 1/4 inch of their corresponding walls Terry.
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The speakers are within a 1/4 inch of their corresponding walls Terry.
I don’t mean to question your abilities as I’m certain you’ve tweaked and understand this stuff far more than I ever will. I was asking about the accuracy of the speakers to your listening position, not the walls. Walls are usually not that accurate, but I have seen high frequency roll off in measurements where the speakers are off 1/4” to the listening position. Made me think of that when I saw your measurement, but I know the mics we use aren’t that great for high frequencies anyways.
It took me 2 years to place my speakers. In the end, I stopped measuring and 1/2” speaker moves sounded different. It’s a very tough thing to get right, and you can’t base it just on what measures best. Even the thought of moving speakers makes me want to cry a little.