DIY Open Baffle ideas

jk@home · « **on:** 26 Mar 2013, 01:43 pm »

I'm looking for some ideas and opinions for a diy OB project. My plan was to upgrade my modified Maggie MMGs to the new 1.7 model. But first want to look at other options. Budget is around 2 to 2-1/2 grand, spread out over the next year (the beauty of diy

). Looking for a kit or project already laid out and supported. I know folks here have posted inexpensive diy projects, but I want something that I feel will be a equal cost and similar performance alternative to the Magnepan 1.7.

The room is 12' x 15' x 8', acoustically treated for dipoles, and there are two IB sub manifolds (w/ 4- AE IB15s) in the ceiling, which will remain there. I need speakers that are more dynamic then the maggies, and can play at low levels when necessary, with a seating distance of only 7' or less, allowing the speakers to be placed 5' from the front wall. And something less amp dependent, although not necessarily high efficiency.

I'm checking out the Hawthorne Sterling coaxials, at first glance they look perfect for what I "think" I want. The crossover is already laid out, all I would have to do is supply baffle and amps. I have multiple SS amps for the Augies, and could make due at first with a Bottlehead SEX for the coaxial. The baffle could start out as a piece of ply, until I'm ready to get fancy. Lots of great examples of detailed baffle builds on the Hawthorne site. A 10" Sterling trio, in MTM configuration, seems like a good fit for the room. A no brainer, right?

Except they don't seem to be getting the press as they did a few years ago, which is curious to me. Is it the price point of the new Sterlings (which I have no problem with), or is there something else out there I should be looking at?

JohnR · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 01:48 pm »

The requirement "kit or project already laid out and supported" does limit your options somewhat. Hawthorne is (by all accounts, no personal experience) a good choice, others to look at might be Doppenberg (bd-design) in Holland, Bastini, Betsy, ... well I'm not sure what else.

jk@home · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 02:55 pm »

Thanks. Hate to admit it, but diy for me means not only build satisfaction, but also money saved. But I'm lazy in that I don't have the time and money to experiment with builds that involve a lot of research, trail and error, etc. Thus the "kit or project already laid out and supported" comment.

I tried the single driver thing a few years ago (not in an OB, but a cheapo Tekton monitor). Enough to convince me I want a 2 or 3 way design this time around. But still have that nearfield setup requirement, which is the rub.

Mmaxed · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 04:06 pm »

Check out the GR Research forum here at AC.

SteveRB · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 04:21 pm »

+1 for GR Research.

I just finished a pair of V1's that are awesome. He is currently out of production units for the V Series drivers. However, one could build the bass section of the V Series (4x 12" servo controlled subs in H-Baffle), and then swap in whatever exotic drivers you wanted on top...

Danny at GR uses the 4x12" bass system in his new line of ultra expensive systems; I am comfortable that they are will not be matched by much else in open baffle bass.

Rudolf · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Mar 2013, 05:32 pm »

Nao Note II RS
http://www.musicanddesign.com/NaO_Note_II_RS.html
That's what they say on their website:

Quote

Built as a DIY project using SLS woofers the cost of a completed system, less amplifiers, should be
in the range of $1300 to $1400 depending on the choice of materials used for the cabinet
construction.

Rudolf

jk@home · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 01:47 am »

Thanks guys, I'll check those out.

JohnR · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 01:06 pm »

Quote from: jk@home on 26 Mar 2013, 02:55 pm

I tried the single driver thing a few years ago (not in an OB, but a cheapo Tekton monitor). Enough to convince me I want a 2 or 3 way design this time around.

I was under the impression that you wanted a single low-power amp for the baffle. If you're prepared to go fully active more options open up. It couldn't hurt to check out the Linkwitz LX521.

jk@home · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 01:51 pm »

Yeah, I got excited when the new LX521 came out, but according to the site, my room setup is too small (barely).

"Room size: >240 ft2 (>22 m2) area, >8 ft ceiling
Speaker placement measured from tweeter:
>4 ft from wall behind it, >2 ft from side walls,
speaker separation >8 ft
Listening distance 8 ft to 18 ft depending upon loudspeaker application"

Don't know, the same may apply to the Nao posted above? They look very similar

Honestly, still leaning towards the Hawthornes, they just seem like more of a nearfield speaker (the 10" version at least). And an easy first OB project.

underdawg · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 01:56 pm »

yes the Hawthorne even provides cabinet kits which makes it very easy , really just assemble no wood cutting.

studiotech · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 02:14 pm »

Small rooms and placement close to the wall is never ideal for ANY OB. That being said, do not think that one persons recommendation about the LX521 is gospel. You always add some absorption at the first sidewall reflection points and some diffusion to the wall behind the speakers,

What styles of music do you listen to? And how loud? I ask because I think btw the Nao stuff and the Hawthorne, you are going to get very different presentations. The Nao will be smooth, low distortion and very hi-fi. The Hawthorne stuff is based on more PA style, high efficiency drivers, so they will be able to play pretty loud with only a few watts and will sound very dynamic, but maybe not so smooth and without the utmost in resolution. Without Auggies to supplement the Hawthorns, the Nao will most likely have more low end too.

For me, it's a tough decision, because I value aspects that both do well, but in the end I'd have to choose the Nao design. I've never felt fully immersed and relaxed listening to large hi-sensitivity, coax based systems. Please note that I've never heard the Hawthorns, but have heard the GR research V1/V2 a couple of times, as well as several of the Emerald Physics models. These designs are based on similar tech drivers as the Hawthorn.

Greg

studiotech · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 02:16 pm »

Small rooms and placement close to the wall is never ideal for ANY OB. That being said, do not think that one persons recommendation about the LX521 is gospel. Even if it IS the designer.

You can always add some absorption at the first sidewall reflection points and some diffusion to the wall behind the speakers to effectively gain a few feet of "space". Also, just sit a little more in the nearfield and you'll be fine.

What styles of music do you listen to? And how loud? I ask because I think btw the Nao stuff and the Hawthorne, you are going to get very different presentations. The Nao will be smooth, low distortion and very hi-fi. The Hawthorne stuff is based on more PA style, high efficiency drivers, so they will be able to play pretty loud with only a few watts and will sound very dynamic, but maybe not so smooth and without the utmost in resolution. Without Auggies to supplement the Hawthorns, the Nao will most likely have more low end too.

For me, it's a tough decision, because I value aspects that both do well, but in the end I'd have to choose the Nao design. I've never felt fully immersed and relaxed listening to large hi-sensitivity, coax based systems. Please note that I've never heard the Hawthorns, but have heard the GR research V1/V2 a couple of times, as well as several of the Emerald Physics models. These designs are based on similar tech drivers as the Hawthorn.

Greg

jk@home · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Mar 2013, 02:46 pm »

The room will have the full treatment, so to speak. I have 2 x 4 x 6" OC 703 bass traps diagonally in the corners and on the center front wall. Poly reflectors in front of the front wall bass traps (due to my MMGs tweeter's rear output presently shooting into the traps), and plan on getting some QRD foam diffusers, to diy frame out on stands, for the first reflection of the rear waves. I also have some 2 x 4 x 4" absorbers to play around with for the room first reflection spots. The back wall is covered with a bookcase and desk (this is supposed to be a home office

) Of course any of this stuff can be moved around or removed if need be.

I have gotten very good results with the small Maggies in this room, they disappear and image fine.

I listen to mainly pop and rock music, 60s,70s, 80s, or newer, lots of female vocalists. Maybe a little classical. Sometime that weird New Age stuff playing in the background. Not into jazz, country, or rap. Playback level is usually lower than higher, which I have read the Hawthornes can excel at. The ultra low bass is already covered by the IB subs in the ceiling, very happy with them. But I did plan on including the Augies in the design.

Edit: Guess I need to give the LX521 a second look. It would be a much bigger commitment, with the complex x-over and multiple amps. But the more I think about it, I always strive for higher resolution with each system change.