Thoughts on how to reduce 60 cycle hum coming through Rythmik a370 and Super V

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danvprod

Frank, I went ahead and ordered the HumDinger. We'll give it a shot!

danvprod

The HumDinger should be here today, so I will try and report back. Interestingly, last night even with my main tube amp off, I was hearing noise/hum come through the subwoofer amps (this is new). So it really does point to a ground loop issue somewhere.

I'm contemplating trying one of these, just as a test to see if it helps (rolls hum eliminator). I don't love the idea of inserting this in the signal path, but it might be a way to continue to diagnose the issue.
https://www.amazon.com/rolls-HE18-Hum-Eliminator/dp/B004E4LU0W/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1493913755&sr=8-7&keywords=hum+eliminator

It's certainly an odd one. I have an Arc Fault circuit breaker on this circuit and I wonder if that might be failing perhaps and injecting noise into the AC line (just thinking out loud...)

danvprod

I got the HumDinger in place and made some measurements. These are close-microphone measurements right on the Toroid, which the noise I can hear if I stick me ear up to it. Green trace is no HumDinger. Orange is with it in place. The three spikes I see in the trace, which are the audible components I hear are unaffected by having the HumDinger in the circuit path. (This is with following the instructions, with the two plate amps plugged into the HumDinger outlets AFTER the power conditioner.  That would indicate to me that it isn't DC in my AC line but rather something else.


Also here is a close mic of the acoustic hum/buzz that is coming out of the Super V subs.



Going to try the RCA hum remover (rolls) to test the hypothesis that there is a ground potential somewhere in the RCA line. 

Definitely a frustrating problem to solve here.

Folsom

If the subs don't have a source that's tuned on they'll make noise. Basically everything turns into an antenna in that situation.

I already solved or have given you the information needed, as well as good advice from Kevin.

Mark Korda

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Hi Danvprod,
    It seems like you have tried every thing but the kitchen sink. I have one more thought.....
  I had the same problem your having. Both a master electric guy I do some painting for and Wayne a pro tech from AVA, Franks co. pointed the finger at a dimmer switch in which I have in my room, an overhead light. Even though I switched it out with a new one and then a regular on/off switch I had not found my loose toggle switch yet. So earlier I said it was not the dimmer and  now I  retract that. By the way I left the on/off switch in. So......
   I have not read that you have tried switching out the dimmer yet. That should be on your trouble shooting list. I went on Google about dimmers and hum and there was a whole encyclopedia about it. One sight said it chops the AC signal in half. I don't know anything about electronic instruments but between spikes on your graph was exactly 180 which in my old 1953 beginers book is half a wave. Does that pull up any red flags?
   I'm not qualified to give you the right answer but I have the day off today, got a crossword in hand, Perry Mason on, Matlock and Diagnosis Murder next so I had to chime in hoping to get an answer for you......keep pluggin...Mark K.
   

Wayner

Modern day dimmers have a solid state device in them called a triac. The triac is basically a very fast acting switch that cuts the half wave cycle time (on verses off) to dim a lamp. The more you dim, the more of the 1/2 cycle wave is in the off position. Of course the triac deals with both sides of the sinewave. This fast switching may cause hum if the lighting circuit is part of the outlet branch circuit. There are filters out there, but the success rate is by trial and error.

An alternative is to remove the dimmer and replace the lamp with a lower lumin output that matches your usual dimming level, or separate the lighting from the outlet on the branch circuits (and that may not even help). Certainly avoid any style of CFL lamps, but I have noticed that I can read my strobe disc with the current LEDs in my vinyl room....so what does that tell ya?

I suggest that you eliminate the problem and if you can't deal with the solution, find a different way to accomplish the same thing. If you are using LEDs in your room, you should use a high quality "CL" dimmer that are made to handle not only incandescent but LEDs and CFLs (that are dimmable).

You can also reduce light output by mechanical means, like a perforated metal screen or the use of opaque objects to block a portion of the lamp output. Care must be taken so as not to overheat the lamp of the fixture it is in.

danvprod

SUCCESS.

I took the GE Smart Switch out of the circuit and it didn't improve the situation, but I didn't really need a smart switch on that circuit so it's back to the simple one.

Then I tried the Rolls BuzzOff ahead of the A370 input and...the Hum is drastically reduced and no longer can be heard unless you stick your ear right up to the woofer.

The audible 60 Hz hum (from my listening chair) and the annoying harmonic buzzing are gone from the left speaker now that the BuzzOff is in the signal chain. I just ordered another one to put right by the right amp.

Either way. $80 for a pair of these and an extra pair of interconnects to solve this problem. I'll have to do a measurement later just to verify the reduction, but the ears don't lie.


 

danvprod

Some measurements with and without the Buzz Off. The 120 Hz and 300 Hz components are what has been really cut down, which are the ones that are audible my my listening chair.

60 Hz -- 57 dB -> 49 dB (8 dB)
120 Hz -- 44 dB -> 32 dB (12 dB)
300 Hz -- 39 dB -> 29 dB (10 dB)

The 120 and 300 are in the background noise and are basically half as loud. The 60 Hz component is still there, but I think that is just coming through the tube amp, not because of the ground potential trough the RCA interconnect.

I can no longer measure an impedance between the ground of the safety ground on the power cord and the ground of the rolls input (which makes sense since there is an isolation transformer in there).
 





poseidonsvoice

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SUCCESS.

I took the GE Smart Switch out of the circuit and it didn't improve the situation, but I didn't really need a smart switch on that circuit so it's back to the simple one.

Then I tried the Rolls BuzzOff ahead of the A370 input and...the Hum is drastically reduced and no longer can be heard unless you stick your ear right up to the woofer.

The audible 60 Hz hum (from my listening chair) and the annoying harmonic buzzing are gone from the left speaker now that the BuzzOff is in the signal chain. I just ordered another one to put right by the right amp.

Either way. $80 for a pair of these and an extra pair of interconnects to solve this problem. I'll have to do a measurement later just to verify the reduction, but the ears don't lie.


Good work! Isolation transformers definitely have their uses.

Schematic and info here of the Rolls unit: http://www.rolls.com/pdf/M_HE18.pdf

Best,
Anand.

EdRo

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You could go to kerosene lamps. :wink:

jtwrace

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Nice!  Good work!  What are you using for the measurements? 

danvprod

I am using AudioTools on my iPhone with a Sencore measurement microphone and an iAudioInterface 2. The FFT module has a LF mode, which is good for this type of thing.

jtwrace

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I am using AudioTools on my iPhone with a Sencore measurement microphone and an iAudioInterface 2. The FFT module has a LF mode, which is good for this type of thing.
Very nice.   :thumb: