[SoCalWJS]

yeah still haven't bought mine yet, post pics of your first graphs and all that 

If I can figure out how to do it, I will. Going to want input on the results anyway - not quite sure whether to post here or on the Acoustics circle.....

[SoCalWJS]

I'll post here for now.....

The support people at Dayton responded to my email request for the calibration file quickly (assuming 8AM opening there) and I installed it w/o any difficulty. Spent about a half hour playing around with Omnimic and getting a general "feeling" of my current setup. Still trying to figure out a few things. Did come to a few quick conclusions.

This is all keeping my current treatments in place - OC703 behind the angled bookcases, and absorption at first side reflection points. Speakers approximately 1/7th of the room dimension from front wall, angled to point at primary listening position.

I have a dropout centered at 65hz that is about 6-7 db, and I have a boost centered at 150hz of about the same amplitude. Reverberation looks OK, but with a little bit of "ringing" at around 5khz (if I'm reading it right). Waterfall decay is uneven, quicker in the lower frequencies, then slower and slower as frequency increases.

Now to add more treatment and move speakers around.

[Danny Richie]

Waterfall decay is uneven, quicker in the lower frequencies, then slower and slower as frequency increases.

You won't be able to get any useful data from the waterfall plots outside of an anechoic chamber or gated time window with zero room reflections.

[SoCalWJS]

You won't be able to get any useful data from the waterfall plots outside of an anechoic chamber or gated time window with zero room reflections.

....but the waterfalls look so cool  

Thanks for that. I'll take any tips you've got.

I have managed to find a spot for the speakers further from the front wall where the bass response is pretty much the same and I regained some depth  , but I lost some high frequency response.

I can only take those sweeps for about a half hour at a time.

What was really weird was measuring FR through 5.1/7.3. My bass dropout was at 35hz.

I have much to do and learn.

[Danny Richie]

A drop off in the top end is expected in the room response measurements.

[SoCalWJS]

This is frustrating......... I'm giving up for awhile. Seems like I can get a couple of things right, but something else suffers. My plan of trying to have a good-great HT and 2 channel in this room just ain't gonna happen.

If I move the speakers far enough from the front wall to alleviate (not eliminate) a nasty dip in the 50-60 Hz range, and close enough together to get a good soundstage, the viewing angle to the screen from the seats to the side of the main listening position have a portion of the picture blocked by the speakers.
Regardless of what I do, if I move the speakers to where the view isn't blocked from the seats, I can not get a good soundstage and a reasonably flat frequency response.
Is there any chance that if I add more absorption to the corners, will this will get rid of the dip in the 50-60 Hz range? (reduce cancellation at the listening position)
I currently have the OC703 so that there are 6 pieces in each corner running floor to ceiling - 3 stacked on top of 3, so that they are effectively 6" deep and 2 feet across. Would it be better to cut them into the triangle shape and stack them ? (I think that would be 4 feet tall in each corner)

[LarryB]

SoCalWJS:

The problems you are encountering are why I decided to use separate speakers for 2-channel and for HT.  For 2-channel I have large horns.  For HT I wanted 3 identical front speakers, and they had to not interfere with the screen, nor with my horns.  I decided on the Gallo Stradas both for their sonics, and their size.  The screen drops down in front of my horns, and the Stradas, mounted on Mapleshade stands, sit below the screen. (IMO most home screens are mounted too high; with the Stradas on the Mapleshade stands, the screen can be lowered to a proper eye level.)  They are also small enough so as to not compromise the output of my horns.  As you might have guessed, I also use separate electronics: A SET amp and very high quality 2-channel preamp for the music, and an Emotiva pre/pro and multi-channel amp for HT.

Danny makes some small speakers that might allow you to use them similarly.  I strongly recommend you give this a try.

Larry

[Danny Richie]

Heavier damped corners will help. It will also tighten up the bottom end. Think thick tube traps...

You can also reset the bass management system to allow more base response. The Q of the circuit is at 70Hz. So while it might bring up the response at 50Hz to 60Hz it might get heavy at 80Hz or so. So play with that balance and see what you get.

[mlbrand]

SoCal, I know what you are going through. A few years ago I spent a lot of time trying to get a flat measured response in my listening room. I finally got it done, but the only way I could do it was to use two carefully located sub-woofers (MFW-15's), and cross them over with my LS-6's. To be honest, I'm not sure how anyone can ever get a flat low end with two channel. Where we locate our main speakers for best imaging, etc. is one of the worst locations for a flat low frequency response. It causes peaks and nulls. Maybe you should try a 2.1 system, ie use a subwoofer or two.

Or maybe Danny or other two channel guru's can tell us how you can get a flat low end doing two channel. You probably have to move the mains way out into the room (which most of us can't do). At any rate, I am very happy with how my system sounds now, whether it is for 2.1 channel music, or 7.1 channel movies.

At any rate, good luck.

Mike

[kingdeezie]

Hey man,

Not to crap in the punch bowl, but I have the same exact problems with the same exact speakers.

I don't think you are can have your cake and eat it too unless you have a big room with ideal conditions.

I also have a projection screen in the middle of the speakers, with the same viewing problems as you do.

You can move them left, right, up, down, out, around, its not going to make a difference. You are always going to fix one problem, and create another.

I have been contemplating a different speaker for sometime now. The problem is, what else do you get for anything under 15K that can hang with these speakers with all the things they do right?

The problem is room size and positioning.

They need to be positioned properly, in a room big enough for their awesomeness. I feel like right now we are listening to a compromised version of the speaker.

I say F it, be happy, and try to find the best compromise or else you will end up hating what you have.

If you end up finding a solution, I am all freakin ears though man. 

[Danny Richie]

There is just no getting around the fact that big speakers can load up a room.

When we had LS-6's at the RMAF show we had them in a room that was 13' by 19'.



We got them to work in that room pretty well, but had to wall the room off with a heavy curtain. Then in the corners behind the curtains was some 12" thick foam wedges and batted rolls of insulation.

And the bass management setting was on the setting that attenuated the bass the most.

It just takes a little work, but you can make it work and work well. It's all about the room.

[SoCalWJS]

After much experimentation, I have placed the speakers in a position that is, for now, the best compromise. There is some depth to the soundstage on well recorded pieces (I have a CD-R of the Yuri Honing Trio performing "Walking on the Moon" that is starting to sound GREAT - The positioning of the drum set is phenomenal - height, angle - it's almost palpable). There is still a bad drop off in the 50-60 Hz range.

My plan is to cut the OC 703 into triangular wedges and stack them in the corners. There is a storm moving in today and tomorrow, and I need to do the cutting outside. I hope to have that portion done by Thursday. I have some diffusors ordered that have been delayed, but hopefully ship this week. After everything is together, I will remeasure and see what I have at that point.

The speakers are currently positioned so that the center of the drivers are about 57" off the front wall, the inside edges of the speakers about 91" apart, and about 106" from the primary listening position. The speakers are toed in rather sharply and the outside edge of each crosses just in front of the listening position. - It's weird at this point - if I lean in(forward) just a foot or so, I feel that I'm almost moving inside of the soundstage, but I know the response isn't as flat from the Omnimic.
 
Got a few other mods in mind.

**** UPS JUST delivered the no-rez and Electra tubes - THANKS Danny!

[SoCalWJS]

...... maybe I won't get the OC 703 cut this week.....





stubborn little guys:

[Cheeseboy]

Sunny So Cal.  Thanks for sharing your journey. 

[Danny Richie]

We hit 73 today. 

[S Clark]

Mid 70's in Abilene.  Took the Goldwing out for a spin.  My peach trees have put on their annual sacrificial blooms.  Last year we had 90 degree days in March followed by a freeze in May. The summer was a hell that I don't want to think about. This year could be just as crazy.

Oh yeah, back to the topic.  I have my LS9's sounding pretty good on the low end at this time, but it took... tube traps, large multi thickness 703 panels, diffusers, diffusers, and diffusers.  I have a bit of bloom from 120-140 hz, but low end is very clean.  The room is big, but very irregular.  You just have to keep playing with it. 

[Cheeseboy]

Glad to hear it's warm where you are.  We've had summer conditions most of the winter in Cali.  We were asking for a refund on our ski passes at Sugar Bowl.  No Mo No Mo.  It is finally raining here/snowing up at Tahoe again.   

I've been messing around with some sleeping bags and big pillows to find the best way to proceed in tuning my room.   I'll need some thick stuff behind the speakers and looking to go with some Art GIK in the left and right first reflection points.

[SoCalWJS]

Sugar Bowl?

That was where I went when I was a still a kid in NorCal back in the day! Loved that place.

Well, the snow has pretty well melted here, but now the howling winds are passing through - maybe I'll get to the cutting the OC703 this weekend. In the meantime, my AQD-1's arrived.  Got them unpacked and placed where I thought I'd start with regard to placement based upon some reading, then turned on some music.

****The wind is really blowing too hard (drowns out any soft passages) and it's daytime, so my electricity is not at it's best, so, with that in mind.......

First impression - not so good. Things happened that I did not even know could happen, happened.    Moved them a bit to where my second choice was. Completely different, and much better  .

I can tell that there is going to be a whole bunch of experimentation in the days ahead. Could be some late night listening sessions in the near future (again).

To those who say these things make little difference 


....and placing them w/o some experimentation can make things worse.

[edoggrc51]

Where in SoCal are you?? I know a local guy guy who makes custom acoustic panels for a very good price. I compared his to my GIK's and could not really tell a difference so I bought a whole bunch from him. Took my system to another level. 

[Cheeseboy]

Think 3 AM ride up the hill tommorrow morning.  5 feet of new snow. 

Where did you get the most bang for the buck with the AQD-1 diffusion?  I just gotta know!