[jtwrace]

Anymore listening info on this? 

[dvenardos]

Got them unpacked, these are not mini monitors they are huge. 

[tubesguy2]

It's the end of January. Anything to report?

[NeilT]

It's the end of January. Anything to report?

+1

[dvenardos]

Sorry, my grandmother died last week. 
She lived a long, good life, but things have been very busy and difficult...

I will set them up this weekend, need a good distraction.

[dBe]

Sorry, my grandmother died last week. 
She lived a long, good life, but things have been very busy and difficult...

I will set them up this weekend, need a good distraction.

Our prayers are with you and yours.  Grandmothers are very special.

<><

Dave

[django11]

Sorry to hear that Don.

[dvenardos]

Thanks guys!

I will get some more impressions for this thread up soon.

[Ron]

 Very sorry to hear about your grandmother. It is always difficult to lose a close family member.

Ron

[tesseract]

Sorry to hear about your loss, Don.

[tesseract]

Funny how none of the mud slingers on AVS have stepped up and asked to audition the speakers.

It certainly was not for want of trying.

I think most of the serious slinger's had multiple reason why they felt the audition wouldn't shed any light, due to all the changes, switch quality, etc.  Too bad, since I think aside from a straight cap to cap comparison, the test would be quite revealing.

I shot down most of those arguments, including the switch. It appears that people are only interested in being right, instead of being interested in the truth.   

[Bear]

Danny,  how much for an upgrade kit for these b2031p's(caps, no Rez, pollyfill and such)?

[Danny Richie]

Danny,  how much for an upgrade kit for these b2031p's(caps, no Rez, pollyfill and such)?

If you use all Sonicaps (two of them), a Mills resistor, and the Erse XQ inductor (just like I used) then it is $50 a speaker for the parts.

One sheet of No Rez is all that is needed and it is also a big help for these. The No Rez is $38 a sheet.

[dvenardos]

I will do my own comparison tomorrow and if anyone in southern California would like to get together on Sat, Feb. 12 send me a PM. I am located in the 91360 zip code.

[dvenardos]

Okay, everyone loves pics. 



I have spent several hours with these speakers now. To simplify the components inline I went with my Squeezebox 3 -> Channel Islands VDA-2 -> amplifier. The SB3 is playing FLAC files. I started off with my two channel amp but I was having some problems with one of the channels and switched to my home theater amp, the Outlaw 7100 (made by ATI) and was using the volume control on the SB3.

I found it very hard to make a comparison between the caps. When I compare speakers I like to play one set for a few days and live with them and then do the same with the other set. A few times back and forth and you can really get a good feel for what you like and dislike about each speaker. I was doing that on a smaller scale with the networks on these speakers by listening to an album at a time. On my older recordings I really couldn't tell much of a difference (or rather couldn't tell a difference) and I went to some of my newer recordings and there I noticed more of a difference. When listening to Eva Cassidy's "Over the Rainbow" it hit me, what was wrong there? I happened to be listening to the stock network. I switched back and listened again using the sonicap network. The way I can describe the difference is that stock network felt like it was stumbling over itself. It wasn't doing a good job of making the notes distinct. The sonicap network was better but not great.

For a period of time I had my children (nine and eleven) listening to some songs that they know well (Beatles) and there first response was the Behringers didn't sound nearly as good as our speakers. I finally came to the realization that I really don't like these speakers. They aren't terrible, but they certainly aren't great, despite what they may measure. They just don't have good, what I would call, resolution. You really can't hear the detail of the music with them. I switched back to my Onix Strata Minis and they have much better detail and clarity than the Behringers with either network.

My conclusion: I can't really tell with these speakers. I don't like listening to them and I think that any difference is lost on me. So if you are a nay sayer you could say, "See I knew it, no difference". If you believe that the quality of components make a difference then you can say, "They are only as good as the weakest link". I can see how people can hear no difference and I can also see how people can hear a big difference.

When I first cranked them up on Saturday I was using some Beethoven. I think I will go back to classical for some more listening. Thanks Danny for all your hard work. 

[Rclark]

Makes sense. And you clearly pointed out an audible difference. On another note, they are really ugly and cheap looking. I wouldn't want them in my living room as a main system. They look like something id gift to a family member. They're molded plastic, aren't they?

 none of those idiots have come back to contend any of this. Let's just call this the obvious win that it is.

[Danny Richie]

I have no problem with whatever result you get, but you are making it hard on yourself by the way you are making the comparison.

It is a speaker that you are not used to and is really not that great to begin with. So it sounds different, you are not used to their sound, and you don't really care for them.... Playing a whole album through then switching is making it difficult from a memory retention level.

Try this: Pick a piece of music with a clean intro using an acoustic instrument. A guitar will be great. Some clean unprocessed vocals won't hurt either. But just start with the intro. Play about the first 10 to 20 seconds of it only. Play it five or six times in a row. Really listen to it and its details. Basically, memorize it. Then switch. Listen for not just the notes, but the space between the notes. Listen for the noise floor. Do the notes run together or is there is clear space. Go back an forth again.

Here is what almost always happens. You learn the differences and then can tell the differences in a few seconds. Then pick a new piece of music and try it again. You may then see that the differences that you noted in the first piece of music has transferred to then next. You then pick up the differences pretty quickly.

Once the differences are learned and well realized then you can listen to any piece of music and tell which network is being used even without comparing.

Give it a shot and see what you find.

[dBe]

Try this: Pick a piece of music with a clean intro using an acoustic instrument. A guitar will be great. Some clean unprocessed vocals won't hurt either. But just start with the intro. Play about the first 10 to 20 seconds of it only. Play it five or six times in a row. Really listen to it and its details. Basically, memorize it. Then switch. Listen for not just the notes, but the space between the notes. Listen for the noise floor. Do the notes run together or is there is clear space. Go back an forth again.

Once the differences are learned and well realized then you can listen to any piece of music and tell which network is being used even without comparing.

Exactly.  You and I have been talking about microdetail and microdynamics for years.  There are a lot of speakers that get the notes more or less right.  The timbre may differ a bit, but they sound just OK.  It is the interstichial occurances in music where the really telling things happen.  The release and decay of the note, the reverb tails, room reflections, mouth and breath sounds, movement on the mic and all of the other barely audible, but incredibly telling aspects of the performance is what makes a recording live and breathe in our rooms.  An inferior (for audio) cap will eat all of these aspects up with dialectric absorption, dissipation factor, ESR and other parasitics.

This doesn't take into considerations on the other end like rise times.  That is another discussion.

Poor caps are like a pantomime.   

Dave

[jn316]

I remember years ago when I was interested in some new speakers, back in my novice days  , I had like 2 CDs that I knew very well and would go around listening to the opening 10-20 seconds of some of the songs. I found that each speaker was different in how it presented some of the nuances.
There was one particular "sound" from one of the songs, it lasted only a few seconds, that I found myself focusing on. It was located on the far left side of the soundstage. On the lesser resolving speakers, I couldn't make out what it was...it was just a dull sound. On the better resolving speakers, I could tell it was a piano! Once I knew that, no matter how much I might have liked a speaker, if it couldn't provide that level of detail, that level of resolution, and let me know it was a piano over there, I couldn't get myself to buy it.

Gary

[dBe]

I remember years ago when I was interested in some new speakers, back in my novice days  , I had like 2 CDs that I knew very well and would go around listening to the opening 10-20 seconds of some of the songs. I found that each speaker was different in how it presented some of the nuances.
There was one particular "sound" from one of the songs, it lasted only a few seconds, that I found myself focusing on. It was located on the far left side of the soundstage. On the lesser resolving speakers, I couldn't make out what it was...it was just a dull sound. On the better resolving speakers, I could tell it was a piano! Once I knew that, no matter how much I might have liked a speaker, if it couldn't provide that level of detail, that level of resolution, and let me know it was a piano over there, I couldn't get myself to buy it.

Gary

There you go... resolution of microdetail and microdynamics.

One of my favorite recordings for this kind of thing is Roxy Music "Avalon" from AVALON.  The reverb on the background singer is exquisite... on the right system.  Another is "Folkways" from Sam Cardon and Kurt Bestor's first INNOVATORS CD.  It is just a great recording all the way around.

Dave