[Wayner]

Because no one else has bought one, and I think I need one more TT (this will be #9), I have decided to buy this much anticipated DD table. I have already drawn lines in the sand for this table, and if it doesn't perform to my utmost expectations, its going back. I got it for $699, with free shipping and a 1 year extended warranty (to 2 years).

The cartridges that will be installed in it will be the Grado Gold1 Longhorn, the Audio Technica AT440MLa and the Grado Master Reference/Statement. I will try to give a non-buttered up review when this process is complete. Stereophile magazine said that this is the table to buy if you are in the <$2,000 market (who isn't). There is a rather bad video on it concerning feedback, but I don't listen at disco levels, nor do I have my speakers pointed at the table.

So, here we go.......

'ner

[WGH]

Looking forward to your review. Hope it is not too hard to return after you fill the plinth with Plasti-Clay.   

Wayne

[Wayner]

It already weighs 28.8 pounds......but you just gave me an idea!

[NIGHTFALL1970]

I can't wait for your review.  I was thinking about buying one myself, but I really want to do the CF upgrade on my AVA Fet Valve preamp first.

[harley52]

 Forgive me, is this a used TT? The "ordered" has me wondering
Thanks,

Never mind I didn't know that Pioneer was doing anything with TT's other than some cheapie they have for the non-professional.

[steve f]

Wayner , I'll be watching for your review. I've cut back to only three turntables, Oracle Delphi, Technics SP-25, and a  Revox  linear tracker. Gave my son my old AR XA with Formula IV arm. Sold the Empire, and Thorens 125.

That means I'm due for another one. Unlike a lot of audiophools, I really like a good direct drive turntable. The thing that's lacking in a lot of arms including some very pricey ones is the lack of adjustable VTA on the fly. I don't know if the Pioneer will be a substitute for a Technics or Denon. I'm hoping you can give lots of details.

steve

[Wayner]

Forgive me, is this a used TT? The "ordered" has me wondering
Thanks,

Never mind I didn't know that Pioneer was doing anything with TT's other than some cheapie they have for the non-professional.

Forgive me Harley52, I should have been more clear on that. Here is a photo of this new turntable from Pioneer. It was designed to replace the discontinued Technics SL1200MKII.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I am very interested in this TT but it is damn ugly, but if it sounds great, that's all that matters.  I wonder how it would compare to my Thorens TD-145.

[charmerci]

I'm a bit confused about the love for DD TT's. 

I remember in the 80's that DD tables were not audiophile approved. 

[RDavidson]

I'm a bit confused about the love for DD TT's. 

I remember in the 80's that DD tables were not audiophile approved. 

Like most things, there are strengths and weaknesses, thus you'll see polarized views and preferences. I think DD TT's carry a certain stigma largely due to the spread of these "expert" opinions.

The latest Stereophile review of the PLX1000 does a good job of explaining and making good comparisons.

[steve f]

There were some really bad DD turntables in the 80s. There were some bad belt drive units too. The very best DD turntables had a lot better specs than any belt drive made.

Just audio bs that they couldn't work well. Now idler wheels are making a comeback. I can't imagine why.

steve

[neobop]

I'm a bit confused about the love for DD TT's. 

I remember in the 80's that DD tables were not audiophile approved. 

That would be the late '80's.  It was marketing bullshit.  All the magazine advertisers were making belt drivers because that's all they could, and it's easier. 
Virtually all the big Japanese companies had statement DD tables, but they were phased out around 1980 when the CD arrived. 
VPI was one of those BD companies, but what's their top table today?
neo

[wushuliu]

In the meantime until he updates his posts here, this is Wayner's most recent comment over at AK on his Pioneer which just arrived:

BTW, yeah, its certainly the top of the heap for a $700 table. I would not waste my money on an AT-LP120 when you can have this one, unfortunately, it a bit more, but I think its worth it.

So far so good!

[Russtafarian]

A comparison to the top Stanton TT that rolls off the same line would be interesting.  The Stanton has been out for a few years so it's a somewhat known commodity.  Are there performance differences or is the Pioneer the same table as the Stanton with a different look?

[Letitroll98]

A comparison to the top Stanton TT that rolls off the same line would be interesting.  The Stanton has been out for a few years so it's a somewhat known commodity.  Are there performance differences or is the Pioneer the same table as the Stanton with a different look?

The Pioneer, the Stanton 150, the Audio Technica 1240, Reloop RP 8000 and 7000, plus numerous others tables are all Hanpin DJ 5500 tables with various minor differences spec'd by the various "manufacturers".  There should be no substantive difference between any of these Hanpin "Super OEM" tables.  One difference might be the various isolation feet that are all unique to each product, but I doubt that makes for much change in sq.  There are minor differences in the shape of the plinth and layout of some of the buttons, again not much difference.  The Reloop models look like the best bang for the buck to me with the 8000 having a MIDI console for no extra price.

None of them are even close to the specs on a Techics SL 1200.

[wushuliu]

The Pioneer, the Stanton 150, the Audio Technica 1240, Reloop RP 8000 and 7000, plus numerous others tables are all Hanpin DJ 5500 tables with various minor differences spec'd by the various "manufacturers".  There should be no substantive difference between any of these Hanpin "Super OEM" tables.  One difference might be the various isolation feet that are all unique to each product, but I doubt that makes for much change in sq.  There are minor differences in the shape of the plinth and layout of some of the buttons, again not much difference.  The Reloop models look like the best bang for the buck to me with the 8000 having a MIDI console for no extra price.

None of them are even close to the specs on a Techics SL 1200.

What about the arm?

I for one do not think the 1200 is that great sounding a table, and that includes KAB mods. Sure the specs may be hard to beat but I've listened to lots of cheaper vintage Technics that sounded better to me than the 1200. In that regard I don't think the bar is very high for Pioneer.

[Wayner]

What does "Super OEM" mean. As an engineer working in various fields, I have never heard this term, nor does it make any sense. OEM stands for "Original Equipment Manufacturer", so what would be "super" about that is beyond me.

Hanpin is an OEM supplier to Pioneer. Hanpin is an OEM supplier to Audio Technics, Hanpin is an OEM supplier to Stanton.
_______________________________________ _______________________________________ _

On another topic, the Technics SL1200MKII, when tweaked correctly is one hell of a deck. The stock mat is too hard for my liking, so I have made a composite mat that is of a lower durometer and the noise level from platter born gremlins is gone. The arm balances very well, and "shock", the anti-skating control works very well. The table is also hum free, so running a Grado on them is no problem. Technics only made 3.1 million of them.
_______________________________________ _______________________________________ _

My review will be coming later today on the Pioneer.

Wayner

[Letitroll98]

And please note that I, and I'm sure everyone else, are waiting patiently for your review Wayne.  We don't always agree, but I trust that we always get an evenhanded, balanced review of products from you.

The Super OEM is not an engineering term, rather a marketing one.  The OEM Hanpin table is the AT 120 that you didn't care for.  The Super OEM is the upgraded model, thus the Super designation.  Because Hanpin makes this table for by my ad hoc count 7 different manufacturers including their own model, but could be more with foreign markets that don't display on the web pages I have viewed, referring to the Super OEM tables means all of these variations as one model.

Wushuliu, as far as I can tell the arm is the constant across all of the models.  The shape of the plinth varies as does the feet, control layout, if it includes the USB/phono preamp module, and the style of knurled knob for the VTA adjustment.  One model even has a different platter, the DJ LP-12.  As the Pioneer is a particularly handsome variation and the prices are all about the same, it's a viable choice.  The most features are on the Reloop models, they load it up with everything.  Oh, and there are straight, short, DJ arms available on Stanton and Reloop, but these wouldn't be considered by any audiophile.   

[Wayner]

It arrived, and in one piece (yesterday). It is however, colder then a mofo. I have unpacked it and all of the accessories, and my first comment is that this indeed looks to be a very finely engineered product. I did place the platter on the spindle and gave it a short spin. All appears to be well.

For the record, it weighs 29.2 pounds. I weighed myself on my digital health scale (which is very accurate), then placed the platter on the spindle, put the mat on the platter and put the counterweight and headshell in my pocket, and subtracted the results from the first weigh.

[Wayner]

I set the table up for my AT440MLa, which I will describe later, but before I started playing that, I loaded my Grado into it, not setting the VTF or even aligning it, but to rather "do the hum test". I thought the motor assembly looked pretty shielded, but alas, hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.