[Folsom]

Hi,

A little background.

Folic acid is a synthetic form of folate and/or methylfolate. It is legally required to be added to any refined wheat flour that is shipped across a state border since 1999; labeled as "enriched" which may or may not state folic acid but has it either way. Whole wheat is not included in this requirement, but any product not using 100% whole wheat would still require it because they refined flour combined with it does. You can buy flouer without it, sometimes at a premium, and if your state raises wheat you can buy bread products sometimes without it from places that use in-state grown wheat. Bakeries and such aren't required to use it, unless their products ship across borders, but rarely is anything else available to them (at least at bakery required amounts). Organic is NOT a factor in the addition of enriched wheat (Organic is enriched just the same, when required or preemptively as practice).

The reason it's required (along with other B vitamins) is to correct deficiencies that cause birth defects (neural specifically with folate/folic). But only a few hundred babies have show any difference since the implementation. The reality is that the mothers have to be on a diet free of beans, greens, and any whole grain products to be deficient enough to pass on the problem to their child.

The problem.

Significant portions of the population cannot convert Folic acid to a usable form. Technically they can but it can be between 7-60% efficiency depending on how whether they've got a double mutation of the MTHFR C677T gene, or a single. (hetro/homo mutations) (and there's some other factors that determine the rate)

We're talking about 50%/25% for hetro/homo (single/double) of the entire population of the United States (single/double).

There's a little debate whether folic acid plugs receptors for usable folate/methylfolate. But it's clear people with these genes have more health problems, so it appears to be a true problem. For example they have more frequent infections (doesn't appear to be true for those that avoid folic acid, and consume plant variety). Depression is common, and a slew of other things. I'm not going try and cover the entire subject, but perhaps the thread can facilitate discussion on it.

How do you know if you have the mutation? 23 & Me is probably the easiest way. I'm not sure if the $99 deal gets you raw data so you can find this out, or if you need to pay $199 now. Either way once you've done it, they don't tell you, you have to download the raw data and upload it to various sites (you don't have to inform them who you are).

To look up more stuff, search for MTHFR. But be warned it gets very confusing, and not all websites are clear or correct. The important lesson is that 50% of people shouldn't consume folic acid in supplement form, or from enriched products (wheat, but I have seen rice with it once). A lot of people that don't eat wheat for health, may be experiencing benefits from this just as frequently as the people that have a problem with wheat itself (over 50% of the population, whether it's evident or not).

To add some context why I know about this, I have a homo 677 mutation. I don't like it, but I do. Avoiding the folic acid has changed me in positive ways. That's pretty much another topic, but relatable to audio my ears are so much more clear!

[sts9fan]

Let's see some scientific references. 

[srb]

.

[Folsom]

Let's see some scientific references. 

OK lazybones. There's more than enough to go around.

[FullRangeMan]

In my country folic acid is plenty used, I think its a world wide procedure as fluor.
What prob does folic cause?

[OzarkTom]

Wheat is also sprayed with roundup 2-3 weeks before harvest to speed up the drying  process. That is the #1 cause of celiac disease.

[sonicxtc]

I thank the original OP for even daring to share this information.
This can easily become one of those debates, like "audiophile cables"--many people don't believe in them, many people chastise those who use audiophile cables, and, sadly, many of those people have never tried a variety of audiophile cables and just live by their suppositions. Yes, I'll readily admit that I use audiophile cables BECAUSE I can readily hear the improvement over stocks cables. [A nod here to Dave's Zenwave, TWL, etc.].

"Can you get back on track here, Sonicxtc?"    HEALTH! The FACT is that we as humans eating food in civilization are exposed to a ton of toxins and a boatload of "health" Bullshit. There are all sorts of things ADDED to our food supply that are not healthful to consume, and some cause illnesses, many cause more problems than they allegedly aim to cure. Try researching Fluoride as a prime example. [Why would you consume a neurotoxin to protect your teeth? What else does it do to your body?]. There are also thousands of food additives that are labeled "NATURAL" that are simply NOT natural and can cause myriad health issues. HOW we produce wheat, for example, may point to an issue far beyond WHEAT causing health issues; it is more likely the wheat is raised in a manner harmful to humans. Yes, I can give a clear real world example. My girlfriend is phenomenally lactose intolerant. If she consumes one bite of "regular" soft cheese, she will bloat up and fart you into the next State within 30 minutes. The fumes are deadly. [She can eat some well aged cheeses, which reduces the lactose content]. HOWEVER, while in Italy together, she slowly experimented with eating genuine Italian cheese. By day 5 she ate any dairy products she desired and NEVER had a reaction; nothing! How is this possible?!?! Likely, how Italy raises cows and produces cheese is "cleaner" than how we typically do in the U.S.

EDIT. Ozark must have posted as I was writing my post. Thank you. 

Wheat is also sprayed with roundup 2-3 weeks before harvest to speed up the drying  process. That is the #1 cause of celiac disease.

 
IF, for example, you need folic acid for good health, THEN you best find it in naturalfoods; preferably unprocessed food. Between what food manufacturers "get away with," and the misleading crap heralded by the fine folks at the FDA et al, you best take charge of your health primarily by avoid "bad" foods and eating "healthful foods." A lot of government requirements are really NOT there to help the populace--make of that what you will.

I'm not suggesting that a vitamin deficiency is not a real issue; it is. I'm suggesting that how you choose to consume that vitamin is critical. It should be clean, pure, real and bio-available. Yes, now I'm likely opening a can of vitamin enriched organic non-GMO worms. Thankfully, I'm fairly healthy and will weather the worm storm.

Take charge of your health, educate yourself as best you can, and eat clean foods and hopefully you'll be a healthier person.

[Folsom]

This isn't a topic about food additives that are unhealthy. It's a topic about specific genetics that prevent the utilization of folic acid, which makes people significantly more susceptible to disease.

There's countries that don't have it in everything, and the mutations don't seem to have a notable affect on them. But in the USA it clearly shows statistical significance over and over.

[Syrah]

Interesting.  I have chronic reflux (for about 20 years) and have been taking omeprezole on a regular basis for a few years.  Perhaps related, perhaps not, I have blastocystis in my gut and I have IBS as of about 5 years.

I lived in Canada, and now live in the Cayman Islands (where most of my food is from the US).

I wonder.  What were your symptoms? 

You make the genetic testing process seem kinda daunting.

[Atlplasma]

l have had some genetic testing, which was instrumental in confirming an underlying health condition. Anyone who is interested in this topic might want to check out this article: http://www.legalgenealogist.com/2015/02/02/2015-most-bang-for-the-dna-buck/

One of the things I found interesting is how uninformative the admixture results can be. There isn't enough data out there to get much beyond a continent level of certainty.

Sorry. I know this is off-topic.

[JRace]

Wheat is also sprayed with roundup 2-3 weeks before harvest to speed up the drying  process. That is the #1 cause of celiac disease.

That is an odd thing to sa....
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/digestive-diseases/celiac-disease/Pages/symptoms-causes.aspx

What causes celiac disease?
Research suggests that celiac disease only happens to individuals who have particular genes. These genes are common and are carried by about one-third of the population. Individuals also have to be eating food that contains gluten to get celiac disease. Researchers do not know exactly what triggers celiac disease in people at risk who eat gluten over a long period of time. Sometimes the disease runs in families. About 10 to 20 percent of close relatives of people with celiac disease also are affected.1

Your chances of developing celiac disease increase when you have changes in your genes, or variants. Certain gene variants and other factors, such as things in your environment, can lead to celiac disease.

http://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/roundupwheat.asp

Claim:   U.S. farmers are saturating wheat crops with Roundup herbicide as a desiccant before each harvest, causing an increase in wheat-related ailments.

Glyphosate may see some usage as desiccant for wheat crops in the U.S., but support for the claim that 97% to 99% of all wheat in the U.S. is harvested in this manner is not documented by any source cited by the article's author.

If indeed all wheat is sprayed there is still no known cause of celiac disease.

[Folsom]

The reason 23&Me wasn't allowed to do up full health reports is because it's so hard to go through all the information. Even when you do, it's all relative, too. The test is as easy as it gets besides you have to pay for it. Going through the information after is what's a challenge.

Interesting.  I have chronic reflux (for about 20 years) and have been taking omeprezole on a regular basis for a few years.  Perhaps related, perhaps not, I have blastocystis in my gut and I have IBS as of about 5 years.

I wonder.  What were your symptoms? 

Anti-acids are awful for you. The thing that makes me have heart burn the most is oils, especially hydrogenated. But these days I don't get much indigestion. I'm a healthier eater for one, and follow eating for my phenotype, largely. I'd have to start eating a lot of enriched wheat to confirm how my stomach reacts.

Some symptoms of being on folic acid for me; My bladder was way more irritable, moods seemed more inconsistent, and my ears where always sort of plugged feeling. As a child I had lots of ear infections, and as an adult would get sinus infections instead; and I think had a urinary one (I dove into cranberry fast). It seems like I had worse skin as well. In general I was a lot more sensitive to environmental factors. My allergies were worse as well. And as an adult I seemed to have a harder time getting rid of colds and such, prolonged sinus stuff. There's more, but to give you an idea... being off it for a substantial amount of time so my body could process it (I even supplemented with it not knowing up until a more recent time, either by itself or with other stuff) has changed me in notable ways. I'm not like perfect or developing super powers, but it was an important step. I eat whole wheat and don't notice bladder irritation now. (I consume it rarely, like 1 or 2 times a month, often less)

[sts9fan]

The reason 23&Me wasn't allowed to do up full health reports is because it's so hard to go through all the information. Even when you do, it's all relative, too. The test is as easy as it gets besides you have to pay for it. Going through the information after is what's a challenge.

Anti-acids are awful for you. The thing that makes me have heart burn the most is oils, especially hydrogenated. But these days I don't get much indigestion. I'm a healthier eater for one, and follow eating for my phenotype, largely. I'd have to start eating a lot of enriched wheat to confirm how my stomach reacts.

Some symptoms of being on folic acid for me; My bladder was way more irritable, moods seemed more inconsistent, and my ears where always sort of plugged feeling. As a child I had lots of ear infections, and as an adult would get sinus infections instead; and I think had a urinary one (I dove into cranberry fast). It seems like I had worse skin as well. In general I was a lot more sensitive to environmental factors. My allergies were worse as well. And as an adult I seemed to have a harder time getting rid of colds and such, prolonged sinus stuff. There's more, but to give you an idea... being off it for a substantial amount of time so my body could process it (I even supplemented with it not knowing up until a more recent time, either by itself or with other stuff) has changed me in notable ways. I'm not like perfect or developing super powers, but it was an important step. I eat whole wheat and don't notice bladder irritation now. (I consume it rarely, like 1 or 2 times a month, often less)

The reason 23&me gives data as it does now is because it did not follow the laws. FDA sets the rules for diaganostics and 23&me does not meet them   

[Folsom]

And those rules are for that reasons.

The UK fortifies as well despite the problems.

[oem-wheels]

sonicxtc  ....  I believe your girlfriend can have milk in her diet.... she just can't have milk that's been
Pasteurized or homogenized ... in other words the milk must be RAW milk ... check it out ... that being said, people should stay away from dairy as much as possible... its so bad for you... I have 2 friends and a relative who had heart attacks... and they love milk... drink it every day... friends in their 40's and relative in his 50's ... and they're just slightly over weight... don't smoke... also causes mucose or flem in your intestines ... you know when you have a bad cold and you cough up and spit out that nasty stuff ? when you drink milk you have more of it ? well you think that just happening in your throat ?? think again... that stuff is forming in your body and just sits there lining the walls of you gut... cancer cells love that stuff... I can go on and on about milk...

[ctviggen]

That is an odd thing to sa....
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/digestive-diseases/celiac-disease/Pages/symptoms-causes.aspx
http://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/roundupwheat.asp

If indeed all wheat is sprayed there is still no known cause of celiac disease.

My belief is that modern wheat is the spawn of Satan. If I eat modern wheat, I become congested the next day. Wheat, whether whole-grain are not, is not nutrient dense as compared with meat. Gluten is particularly bad. I can see no benefit to eating wheat. This "whole grains are healthy" idea is completely unsupported by scientific evidence.

[ctviggen]

sonicxtc  ....  I believe your girlfriend can have milk in her diet.... she just can't have milk that's been
Pasteurized or homogenized ... in other words the milk must be RAW milk ... check it out ... that being said, people should stay away from dairy as much as possible... its so bad for you... I have 2 friends and a relative who had heart attacks... and they love milk... drink it every day... friends in their 40's and relative in his 50's ... and they're just slightly over weight... don't smoke... also causes mucose or flem in your intestines ... you know when you have a bad cold and you cough up and spit out that nasty stuff ? when you drink milk you have more of it ? well you think that just happening in your throat ?? think again... that stuff is forming in your body and just sits there lining the walls of you gut... cancer cells love that stuff... I can go on and on about milk...

While there may be benefits to raw milk over pasteurized milk, I eat high-fat dairy products all the time. And in doing so, I've lost over 55 pounds. Your friends are most likely insulin resistant, which is caused by excessive carbohydrate content, not by milk. Cancer is likely caused by high omega six intake, and high carbohydrate intake. Studies have shown that a ketogenic diet reduces or stops cancer. A ketogenic diet does not work with all cancers, but does help with many of them.

Most of the studies you see are epidemiological, which means they are useless. You need randomized controlled trials to make any sense of nutritional information. Concerning milk in particular, many epidemiological studies are indicating that low-fat products are worse than high-fat, particularly for weight gain. Now, these are epidemiological, so the evidence is not that strong. But because fat has been demonized, it's only been recently were high-fat studies could be done.

See this Time article, for instance:

http://time.com/4279538/low-fat-milk-vs-whole-milk/

The study of nutrition is incredibly complex and has been controlled to a large degree by people who simply believed one thing. It has not been scientific at all. Even what you are saying is not scientific. For instance, could your friends be drinking low-fat milk and therefore have a high carbohydrate content? The only way to know is to perform a randomized controlled trial, and those have not been done.

[oem-wheels]

oh yeah... my uncle died of a massive heart attack... drank a lot of milk... a guy I do business with just died of a massive heart attack... going to ask his son about his milk diet... never said dairy causes cancer, said mucose that milk makes supports cancer cells... I know about whole milk versus lowfat.... pasteurization does something to the fat molecules (changes it's structure) and it makes it harder for one to burn the fat in your body... meaning your body can burn off a glass of raw milk with 30% fat better than a pasteurized glass of milk with 20% fat... so that article is some what correct (I believe) in whole milk is actually better for you than lowfat milk but the problem is they're both been pasteurized... my dad gets smashed 3 to 5 times a week and smokes a pack a day, eats lots of red meat... he's 70 and walks and talks like he's 40, lifts heavy stuff... my mom never drank or smoke but ate fat free this, sugar free that, used sweet & low (and the like sugars), drank milk, and died of cancer at age of 47...

anyway.... there's something wrong with what we are being taught about our food diet and its driven by people making money off it... me, I stay away from dairy and tell anyone who might listen to do the same.. i try to find stuff that its in its purest form regardless of fat content... and if it has sugar, get the stuff that is made with REAL sugar...   80% of the food in my house is organic...

[werd]

Wheat is also sprayed with roundup 2-3 weeks before harvest to speed up the drying process. That is the #1 cause of celiac disease.

 they definitely do not do that up here. Wheat is supplied to the International market. No one puts Roundup any where near Wheat since it disqualifies it from being shipped to foreign markets. Its one of the reasons why Monsanto never pursued it. The farmers would not buy programmed Monsanto round up Wheat.

edit; actually I don't know if they do or not. I was referring to GMOd wheat for the use of round up. They may do that I don't know. I can find out though.

[Folsom]

Is the wheat enriched in Canada?

I found a small bakery that's in a town near by (the lady shops in Spokane). She uses expensive flour that doesn't have enrichment, that's organic. She says the other stuff just doesn't taste right.