Definition of Timbre Matching?

Robert D · « **on:** 26 May 2015, 11:37 am »

Definition of Timbre Matching?

Can some one spread there thoughts....

Much appreciated Robert

Robert D · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 May 2015, 11:38 am »

I'll ask my Questions once I have some positive feedback

Regards Robert

ACHiPo · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 May 2015, 12:39 pm »

Not sure I understand your question, but it seems that timbre matching is matching the spectrum/envelope of sound that makes instruments and voices sound as they do.

From wikipedia: timbre (/ˈtæmbər/ tam-bər or /ˈtɪmbər/ tim-bər) also known as tone color or tone quality from psychoacoustics, is the quality of a musical note, sound, or tone that distinguishes different types of sound production, such as voices and musical instruments, string instruments, wind instruments, and percussion instruments. The physical characteristics of sound that determine the perception of timbre include spectrum and envelope.

In simple terms, timbre is what makes a particular musical sound different from another, even when they have the same pitch and loudness. For instance, it is the difference between a guitar and a piano playing the same note at the same loudness. Experienced musicians are able to distinguish between different instruments of the same type based on their varied timbres, even if those instruments are playing notes at the same pitch and loudness

Tympani · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 May 2015, 02:38 pm »

With respect to audio components, a good example would be the use of a "timbre-matched" center speaker in a surround sound system that allows it to mesh seamlessly with the rest of the system, without accentuating or suppressing unique regions of the sonic spectrum.

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 May 2015, 06:43 pm »

In the brass family, there are cylindrical instruments and conical instruments.

Trumpets are Trombones are largely one bore diameter for the majority of their length and are considered cylindrical instruments

French Horns and Tubas bore diameter are constantly getting larger once past the valve/tuning slide section and are considered conical instruments. Conical instruments tend to have a more "mellow" ie, less harsh sound than Trumpets or Trombones.

A tuba and a trombone can both play the 2nd space C in the bass clef staff, but will sound markedly different.

HsvHeelFan

Early B. · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 May 2015, 07:28 pm »

Timbre matching is basically a home theater marketing term. Speaker manufacturers want you to buy more of their products, so "timbre matching" sounds like a great reason to do so. Of course, having all 5 speakers exactly alike (or similar) is a good thing, but not necessarily the best or most practical option.

JRace · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 May 2015, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: Early B. on 26 May 2015, 07:28 pm

Timbre matching is basically a home theater marketing term. Speaker manufacturers want you to buy more of their products, so "timbre matching" sounds like a great reason to do so. Of course, having all 5 speakers exactly alike (or similar) is a good thing, but not necessarily the best or most practical option.

Why would "timbre matching" not be a good thing?

It is not just a made up thing, you really do want 5 identical speakers, and if that is not possible you want all 5 speakers to sound as close to each other as possible.

Phil A · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 May 2015, 08:04 pm »

In multiple HTs, never found the surrounds all that critical to be timbre matched vs. the front three channels. For multi-channel hi-rez music, it obviously makes more of a difference. If one can have timbre matching within their budget and room configuration for all channels then of course it would be preferable. In the main system (which is 9.2), except for the current unused overhead channels (which should be a good match anyway for what I have), all the speakers are from the same manufacturer. I've had surrounds in an old house that was not the same and it was not something that stood out for HT.

RDavidson · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 May 2015, 09:04 pm »

Quote from: JRace on 26 May 2015, 07:41 pm

Why would "timbre matching" not be a good thing?

It is not just a made up thing, you really do want 5 identical speakers, and if that is not possible you want all 5 speakers to sound as close to each other as possible.

EB never said it was bad. He's just pointing out that marketing has not only created the term "timbre matching" they also use it to sell people more of their (representative brand's) speakers. Timbre matching isn't a bad thing at all. It is a good thing. Fact of the matter is, well designed speakers will have a more similar timbre than not. Larger differences come from design (for example, horns vs electrostats) and their inherent sound dispersion as well as room interaction characteristics. I think this is often why you see people successfully mixing their fronts and center speakers ; Timbre matching is close enough to not distract from the overall presentation. Not to mention, most of today's processors can make compensations for differences in speakers' sound production characteristcs that weren't possible back when the term was coined ; In the Dolby ProLogic days, perhaps?

Early B. · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 May 2015, 09:21 pm »

Give me a $5,000 (or whatever) HT speaker budget and I can buy timbre matched speakers or non-timbre matched (i.e., different speaker manufacturers), and the non-timbre matched system will likely sound better every time. That's because I'm gonna put the money where it matters most -- in the center channel -- because it carries 80% of the sound. The other speakers merely play a supportive role. Just use an SPL meter to get the volume set correctly, and you're good to go. What you want from a center channel is super clear dialogue and fairly deep bass. A typical "timbre matched" MTM center channel isn't gonna get you there.

Rupret · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 May 2015, 11:22 pm »

I don't agree with Early B unless the sounds originate at static positions.

If you have a sound, say a voice, moving laterally between left front and right front with the center in between then, with timbre matched speakers, the sound will sound the same regardless of the position. Without timbre matched speakers the sound will not sound the same.

Tympani · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 May 2015, 12:38 am »

I think it's time for your question, Robert

Early B. · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 May 2015, 01:23 am »

Quote from: Rupret on 26 May 2015, 11:22 pm

If you have a sound, say a voice, moving laterally between left front and right front with the center in between then, with timbre matched speakers, the sound will sound the same regardless of the position. Without timbre matched speakers the sound will not sound the same.

You're probably basing your comment on theory, not on experience. I've probably had 15 or so HT speaker setups in the past 18 years, and the initial ones were timbre matched. Listen to a good HT system with a killer center channel and you'll change your mind.

RDavidson · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 May 2015, 02:18 am »

+1 again I tend to agree with you Early B, noting that you said earlier that IDEALLY all 3 fronts are equal, if not the same exact speaker at the LCR positions. BUT, if one cannot accommodate such (which is the case more times than not), I agree that spending a good portion on the center is paramount, with the L and R anchoring the center in a dedicated HT setup.

Go to a movie theater. Pretty much all those speakers behind the screen serve center channel duty (80% of direct sound), with the small speakers visible along the walls serving LR and surround pans.

Tympani · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 May 2015, 12:24 pm »

It seems as though we're spinning off to an HT setup discussion, where the center channel basically supports dialog. I agree that the individual quality of a strong, articulate center channel does more for the presentation than timbre matching.

However, in a 5.1 system dedicated to MUSIC, the center channel plays MUSIC, and a speaker with a bright or dull midrange relative to the rest will definitely impact the balance and the soundscape.

Which... is why I'd like Robert to chime in with his original question. This HT discussion may well be moot.

Early B. · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 May 2015, 01:47 pm »

Quote from: Tympani on 27 May 2015, 12:24 pm

It seems as though we're spinning off to an HT setup discussion, where the center channel basically supports dialog. I agree that the individual quality of a strong, articulate center channel does more for the presentation than timbre matching.

However, in a 5.1 system dedicated to MUSIC, the center channel plays MUSIC, and a speaker with a bright or dull midrange relative to the rest will definitely impact the balance and the soundscape.

Which... is why I'd like Robert to chime in with his original question. This HT discussion may well be moot.

Why would an audiophile listen to music in 5.1? That's a very artificial sound.

JRace · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 May 2015, 02:03 pm »

Quote from: Early B. on 27 May 2015, 01:23 am

You're probably basing your comment on theory, not on experience. I've probably had 15 or so HT speaker setups in the past 18 years, and the initial ones were timbre matched. Listen to a good HT system with a killer center channel and you'll change your mind.

my comments are based on years of experience,

A great center with timbre matched mains will always sound better than a great center with non matched mains.

And some of us do enjoy multich music.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 May 2015, 06:33 pm »

Love your dogs Robert!

I have a pair myself.

Rupret · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 May 2015, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: Early B. on 27 May 2015, 01:23 am

You're probably basing your comment on theory, not on experience. I've probably had 15 or so HT speaker setups in the past 18 years, and the initial ones were timbre matched. Listen to a good HT system with a killer center channel and you'll change your mind.

I had no idea what timbre matched meant up until a couple of months ago. Still don't actually but I replaced my center channel with a B&W HTM2 Diamond which did not match the B&W XT4 front speakers in my TV room (5.1 setup). I noticed that when sounds moved off center they sounded different than when in center. So, I moved my B&W 802D speakers from my music room 2 channel stereo into the TV room replacing the old XT4 front speakers and it sounds pretty good regardless of sound position. That would be experience I guess.

I replaced the 802D's on my two channel stereo with Magico S5's driven by Bryston 7BSST2 amps. I like it.

Early B. · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 May 2015, 09:51 pm »

A bit off topic, but I just wanted to give you guys an idea of the type of center channel I'm talking about:

That's a 65" TV. As you can imagine, the center channel's sound stage engulfs the room. It's a totally immersive experience that a typical MTM center channel cannot provide.