[FireGuy]

"I like omega speakers and think it's a great value and design, but it is no reason to sanctify it beyond fault..."

Here's a statement that can be applicable to just about any speaker.  Even the one at "cost no object".  Talk about limitations.  How great is a speaker that only a mere handful can afford; not to mention the amplification typically required. 

[DaveC113]

I agree FireGuy, we had this discussion before in another thread and I don't want to get into it again, but these kinds of generalizations that can apply to any design are not that helpful if the point is to have a real discussion.

I also feel like the people that post on Omega forum are excited about their speakers and love them...  but are not wearing blinders and believe they make no compromises. Every speaker makes compromises and I think we are well aware of them.

Anyway... I do think the RAAL tweeter could be crossed high, pointed up and used as a supertweeter even though it's capable of extending much lower in the frequency range... it does go up to 35-40 kHz I think?  V, if you do try it let us know how it goes!

[Canada Rob]

I heard most of them and owned quite a few.
Have you heard (or sell) anything else but Omega?

I like omega speakers and think it's a great value and design, but it is no reason to sanctify it beyond fault - it is just a simple box with one driver, with all its benefits as well as limitations and shortcomings. There are better speakers out there.

I recall another post where you are praising Outlaw speakers that is not a single driver design  How about the "pinpoint accuracy" there?

Have you heard any of Louis' current offerings - what models? 

It's not my intention to get in a war of words, especially over something as subjective as audio.  As far as hearing other speakers, in the years I have been in audio I have heard almost every type of speaker, and I like Omega the best.  Yes, they are not perfect as no speaker is.  Are there better speakers out there?  Neither you nor I can say that, as it is up to each listener as to what they think is best.  As far as selling other types of speakers - yes I have, including other single driver speakers, but I stopped because they didn't measure up to the Omegas.

Getting back to the reason for this thread - running a RAAL with a pair of  Omegas.  I speak with Louis almost every day, including about this subject, and what I suggested came from him. 

[Rocket]

Hi,

In the future I'd like to buy a pair of Omega speakers for my system.  I personally think if you start modifying the speakers to get the sound you want then they really aren't the speaker for you.  Your probably best looking at another speaker and giving up on single drivers and high efficiency.  There are trade offs in all designs. 

Anyway good luck with your decision.

Cheers Rod

[G Georgopoulos]

There is no thing as a full range speakers without limits,add a tweeter and enjoy music...

[shaizada]

I have used a pair of Townshend Super Tweeters, which I still own with the Omega Super 8 firing forward aimed towards the listener, but aligned flat with the front of the speaker baffle.

http://www.townshendaudio.com/supertweeters/

They work amazingly well without changing a single iota of character of the Omegas.  It opened up the top end with more air/space, so it helped in that regard.

These Supertweeters are designed for that.  However, the Raal is not a supertweeter....it is a tweeter and designed for that.  I think it would defeat the whole purpose of the Omegas as the beauty is in that full range sound. 

Even without the supertweeter, I never felt the Omegas were lacking in any top end extension at all.  All the cymbal work was there presented naturally and beautifully.

[Good Times]

Whilst you're adding a tweeter, why not add a woofer and have yourself a conventional speaker design?

Why not?

Because you're deviating from the main premise of the Omega lineup. Of course they are not without their compromises, that's why there's 9+ models available and not just 1. It's all about sonic preferences. I think if the single driver frequency response doesn't suffice for your listening preferences that you'd be better off DIYing something so you can incorporate it into the cabinet and keep the tweeter as close as possible to the main driver for improved coherence.

[ClefChef]

Whilst you're adding a tweeter, why not add a woofer and have yourself a conventional speaker design?

Why not?

Because you're deviating from the main premise of the Omega lineup. Of course they are not without their compromises, that's why there's 9+ models available and not just 1. It's all about sonic preferences. I think if the single driver frequency response doesn't suffice for your listening preferences that you'd be better off DIYing something so you can incorporate it into the cabinet and keep the tweeter as close as possible to the main driver for improved coherence.

I see you may not be familiar with the ENTIRE Omega line.

Omega with incorporated subwoofer:



Omega Stick Six with built-in sub:




Here's the "supertweeter" addition (not by Omega)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45805.0



Another example of possible supertweeter addition





If someone's single driver frequency response doesn't suffice his listening preferences then he's better off adding whatever he deems necessary to his setup to enhance that response, and nobody can tell him not to 

I am just curious what is "the main premise of the Omega lineup" from which "thou shalt not deviate" 

[ricardojoa]

The problem with adding a tweeter is that the woofer needs to have some sort of crossover in order for it to properly integrated with the tweeter unless is position upward or fire backwards.. Other wise you would have high frequencies playing from both drivers causing combfiltering and lobing.

Adding a sub is  slightly different as you can take advantage of the midwoofer roll of and integrate from it without the use of xover and you would also have the advantage of sub position.

[ClefChef]

You missed the point completely. You add tweeter where FR driver rolls down naturally.

[beowulf]

This is an interesting post ... for me personally I love bass and need a subwoofer.  Even though the subwoofer I use is pretty crappy I still prefer using it for both music and movies over not using it.  I set the crossover point at where the Omega's roll off and it fills in the rest, and since it's not too directional I do prefer the sound. 

With that respect I can see why someone would like to experiment with a super tweeter in the same fashion and set it up to take over where the Omega driver rolls off.  I don't see this as deviating from the single driver formula as the Omega driver's bandwidths still run complete and the other subs and super tweet drivers take over where they Omega's stop.  However using any type of crossover within the single driver's frequency range defeats the purpose of the concept IMO.  I would look elsewhere for another driver to match up with the RAAL if used in a traditional fashion.

I'm currently saving the money for a set of Outlaws with RS7 and active subs to do this as I think it gets pretty close to my ideal setup.  One day I would like to try a super tweeter just for kicks, but I'm already 48 years old and just wondering what a super tweeter could do for me as my hearing only goes to about 15,000 Hz as it is.  Would I really hear or perceive anything after 15K Hz??? Hmmm ...

[ricardojoa]

The crossover point wave length should be close to that of the CTC of the drivers, otherwise you would have two sources. If you blend in the tweeter where the driver rolls off, the crossover point wave length would be too short to create a single source.

[this_is_vv]

Omega 8 are in house the alnico one

Waiting for dueland capacitor that will make it cross around 10k

[ClefChef]

you could probably use 0.47uf-1uf + resistor (10-14 ohm, depending on the efficiency of your tweeter) in series.

[this_is_vv]

I went with 2.2uf they will cross the raal at around 10k that should suffice enough for my testing

[Good Times]

I see you may not be familiar with the ENTIRE Omega line.

I am just curious what is "the main premise of the Omega lineup" from which "thou shalt not deviate" 

I'm familiar - I'm more referring to the tweeter.

The main premise is ultimate coherency. When you add a tweeter you compromise coherency to an extent. I'm not saying not to do it, you may prefer it that way, just saying that the further you deviate from the original speaker, the more reason there is not to start with an Omega to start with imo.

Take Zu speakers. My favourite Zu is the Soul, which is dual concentric (point source). Every other model is not, and in my opinion is coherency compromised because of that.

[this_is_vv]

The experiment is ongoing.....let me know if anyone interested to know how it sounds...


V

[DaveC113]

The experiment is ongoing.....let me know if anyone interested to know how it sounds...


V

Yup, please do. 

[pstrisik]

Well, I decided to give the super tweeter approach a try.  I already have subwoofers.  Super tweeters will now give me extension at both ends while leaving my Super 7 Alnico XRS full range.  Found some decent-for-the-money ST's on Audiogon - $250.  They are Vifa Custom dual concentric ring super tweeters and operate from 15khz to 40khz, have selectable high pass points of 15khz, 17.5khz or 20khz volume level selectable for 0db, -3db or -6db.  So I can blend them well with the upper range of the RS7A's. 

Should be fun.

........Peter


 

[mnilan]

Peter:
I'm interested in your project.  Please report back now and then.
Thanks,
Mike