NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build

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mlundy57

NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« on: 21 Mar 2017, 02:20 am »
OK Ed, my turn.

I'm starting the build for the set I'm taking to Dallas. Instead of finishing the MTM pair I currently have playing (the one I got when Ed got his) I'm going to use one of the flat packs I bought from Jay.  Then use the drivers and crossovers I already have.

The bottoms in the flat pack are designed differently than Ed's (and my other one). Instead of being flush with the wings and baffle, these extend a little bit all around and have all edges rounded over, more like a base (plinth) than a bottom. This means I cannot veneer them so I will paint them black and then topcoat.

I haven't decided if I am going to veneer the insides or paint them black.

Instead of going with an exotic veneer like the French burl I used last year, I am going more traditional with these. I'll be using a premium curly figured American black cherry. The dual 12" H-Frames and monitors will have the same veneer. I have two 4' x 8' sheets on the way so each speaker gets its own sheet. That will allow me to keep the grain pattern consistent between the top and bottom sections.

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #1 on: 21 Mar 2017, 06:03 am »
Cool, looking forward to  it  Mike.  Building a pair out here as well, haven't deceided  on a  finish (paint, veneer, or a combo of both)
With painting the  bases ,  your wave guides may look  really good  in matching color.  OTOH, I know you are anxious to try Ed's  technique  for veneering the guide  :)

I don't think I even sent you guys (you and Ed)  bases with those   very first  two pairs did  I ? If you made an interanl "plug" for the  base on that first pair, you could  easilly copy it  if you  wanted to fully veneer this pair....
Anyway, can't wait to see the  American Black Cheery

jay

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #2 on: 21 Mar 2017, 06:44 am »
Jay,

No bases on the first two Ed and I got from you. Those were just toying with an idea to see if it would work so you cobbled the wings and baffles together from parts for the full sized Otticas that were defective. I cut my bottoms oversized on the front and large wing side and flush on the short wing side. I carried the angle on the short wing side out to where the back was flush with the back edge of the long wing. After glue up I used a flush trim bit to even up the front and long wing side.

The base in the flat pack cannot be veneered because all four sides are rounded over. You can roll veneer in two planes but not three planes over two adjacent sides. Unless you mean for me to make another flush fit base and not use the one in the flat pack. I'll think on that but I like the look of the larger base too ... decisions, decisions ...  :scratch:

On these I'm going to dye the waveguide black. I'll save the veneer for the first pair that is currently playing.

The base and waveguide will be black as is the plinth for the H-Frames. The H-Frames are already built but I have to refinish them. They were originally covered with a carbon fiber Tolex. The bases on the H-Frames are ebonized white oak with a gloss topcoat. I built them to be bolted on so I can easily remove them to refinish the H-Frames. I have to strip off the Tolex and clean off the glue. Then I can apply the cherry veneer.

I'm looking forward to seeing the cherry also. I have only seen a small picture on the website. It should be here by the end of the week.

Mike

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #3 on: 21 Mar 2017, 10:58 pm »
Here are some pics of the NX-Otica MTM flat pack from Jay. These are just dry fit.











Mike

ebag4

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #4 on: 22 Mar 2017, 01:59 am »
Hey Mike, anxious to see what you come up with.  Cool of you to take them to the Lone Star Audio Fest. 

Best,
Ed

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #5 on: 22 Mar 2017, 02:06 am »
Ed,

Thanks. It's going to be fun. Since I'll be using the drivers and crossovers I'm currently listening to even though the cabinets will be brand new the speakers will be well broken in.

That goes for the subs as well since I'm taking the drivers out of the wedge cabinets I took last year. I want to strip and refinish those cabinets anyway with a different topcoat that doesn't yellow as much.

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #6 on: 22 Mar 2017, 06:47 am »
Jay,

No bases on the first two Ed and I got from you. Those were just toying with an idea to see if it would work so you cobbled the wings and baffles together from parts for the full sized Otticas that were defective. I cut my bottoms oversized on the front and large wing side and flush on the short wing side. I carried the angle on the short wing side out to where the back was flush with the back edge of the long wing. After glue up I used a flush trim bit to even up the front and long wing side.

The base in the flat pack cannot be veneered because all four sides are rounded over. You can roll veneer in two planes but not three planes over two adjacent sides. Unless you mean for me to make another flush fit base and not use the one in the flat pack. I'll think on that but I like the look of the larger base too ... decisions, decisions ...  :scratch:

On these I'm going to dye the waveguide black. I'll save the veneer for the first pair that is currently playing.

The base and waveguide will be black as is the plinth for the H-Frames. The H-Frames are already built but I have to refinish them. They were originally covered with a carbon fiber Tolex. The bases on the H-Frames are ebonized white oak with a gloss topcoat. I built them to be bolted on so I can easily remove them to refinish the H-Frames. I have to strip off the Tolex and clean off the glue. Then I can apply the cherry veneer.

I'm looking forward to seeing the cherry also. I have only seen a small picture on the website. It should be here by the end of the week.

Mike

Yeah, I get the veneering issue of the bases, it was something I considered but I wanted something that guys could finish with out a lot of tools hence including the  rouid overs.   Figured  guys   getting into veneering or experienced with it  would likely have the ability to copy the  base dowel/screw hole  patern   or even mod the  included base to work if they wanted veneer    (mark & cut the short wing & rear sides,  flush trim the  front &  long wing sides as you did   previousluy.

Regarding dying the waveguide,  is there a reason why you  go that route as opposed to painting it ?   Do you  shellac /  clear  it in some way after to seal it up ?   

I think it will look great with the  bases  of both the h-frames & MTm;'s along with the waveguide being black  although,  the  waveguide would  also look good in  the cherry I think... can't really go wrong with either choice, just a matter of personal choice

jay

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #7 on: 22 Mar 2017, 07:03 am »
Yeah, I get the veneering issue of the bases, it was something I considered but I wanted something that guys could finish with out a lot of tools hence including the  rouid overs.   Figured  guys   getting into veneering or experienced with it  would likely have the ability to copy the  base dowel/screw hole  patern   or even mod the  included base to work if they wanted veneer    (mark & cut the short wing & rear sides,  flush trim the  front &  long wing sides as you did   previousluy.

Regarding dying the waveguide,  is there a reason why you  go that route as opposed to painting it ?   Do you  shellac /  clear  it in some way after to seal it up ?   

I think it will look great with the  bases  of both the h-frames & MTm;'s along with the waveguide being black  although,  the  waveguide would  also look good in  the cherry I think... can't really go wrong with either choice, just a matter of personal choice

jay

Jay,

If I decide to paint the inside I'll paint the waveguide also. If I decide to veneer the inside I'll dye the waveguide and driver cutouts. For small areas, dyeing is a lot less hassle than painting.

I like the look of the rounded over bases. From a design standpoint it gives the speakers a more finished look. If leaving the roundovers off is not a big deal, you might consider giving folks the option of rounded over or not.

Mike

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #8 on: 22 Mar 2017, 09:05 pm »
I've started stripping the finish off the H-frames I built last summer in preparation for the figured cherry veneer. If anybody is interested in how well NoRez sticks over time, I basically had to destroy it to get it out. Trying to peel it off didn't work. I had to use a heavy duty scrapper while pulling and prying to get it out. Once this stuff is stuck it wants to stay stuck.

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #9 on: 28 Apr 2017, 03:25 am »
I've been plugging along on these and am getting close to finishing. Have to get them done this weekend so I can take them to LSAF next week.

Here are some pics after I finished applying two coats of EM1000 sealer and three coats of the EM6000 water based lacquer. The veneer is curly figured cherry.














This is a bottom for one of the MTM monitors



The bottoms for the H-Frames are also gloss black

Mike

jeffh

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #10 on: 28 Apr 2017, 11:54 am »
Very nice. They are really going to look good as the cherry darkens over time.   :thumb:

ebag4

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #11 on: 28 Apr 2017, 01:35 pm »
Looking great Mike!  I started 6 months ago but you are going to be listening before I am :lol:.

Do you like the Target EM6000?  How does it compare to using Nitro?

Best,
Ed

Captainhemo

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #12 on: 28 Apr 2017, 02:57 pm »
Man, those are beauties Mike  :thumb:
I think the blackk  wave guide is going to look   great once  the drivers are installed.
I too am interested in any comments regarding the  water based lacquer

jay

mlundy57

Re: NX-Otica MTM and dual 12" H-Frame build
« Reply #13 on: 29 Apr 2017, 05:01 am »
Very nice. They are really going to look good as the cherry darkens over time.   :thumb:

Jeff,

I tried to speed up the aging process with a method I learned in a woodworking class. I consists of dissolving 1oz of washing soda in 1qt of water then painting on two coats. This works really well with regular cherry but looked terrible on this veneer. The sample pieces I tried it on came out looking like mud and all the figure was gone. I knew figured cherry reacted like this to stains and dyes but wasn't sure how it would respond to the soda treatment. Now I know, the same as it does to stains and dyes.

I've since come across a blotch control product of Charles Neil's which I will try and see how it does. If it works I will keep it in mind the next time I work with figured cherry.

These are just going to have to age naturally.


Ed,

These will be up and running by Monday night. I need to do some polishing on Sunday then wire them up.

Yes I really like the Target EM6000.

I have only used solvent based lacquer a couple of times and then from rattle cans. I can't stand the stuff. It stinks to high heaven, lingers for a long time and if you are going to do much with it requires explosion proof fans (and anything else that could produce a spark). Way to poisonous for my comfort. On top of that my results weren't very good.

The EM6000 water based lacquer is a different story. If you stick your nose in the cup it stinks but at arm's length I couldn't smell it. I was able to mix it up and load my gun without needing a respirator. I used one while spraying though.

This was very easy to use and worked well with my Earlex Pro 8 gun and HVLP turbine.

I used the EM1000 Universal Sanding Sealer first. This product really makes the grain and/or figure pop. It also seals and leaves a smooth surface (once sanded) for the lacquer. However, when the directions say you need to apply 2 coats they mean it. When I applied the first coat I missed the bottoms for the MTMs so I tried just putting one heavier coat on them. It didn't end up working near as well as the two coats I put on everything else.

This was a lot easier and produced much better results than the wipe on varnishes and spray on polys I've used before. I think the combination of the EM1000 sanding sealer and EM6000 production lacquer is going to become my standard finishing method. If they make a UV blocker additive to prevent color change in woods where it is undesirable (walnut turning tan or purpleheart turning brown) it will be even better.

Jay,

I thought the black would look good also. I stained everything first but didn't get an even color so I sanded it back and sprayed General Finished black milk paint thinned 20%. This worked better with a 1.8mm tip /needle in the gun rather than the 1.3mm that came standard.

I had enough trouble with the top and edge banding that I'd seriously consider painting these parts as well and only veneer the front of the baffle and wings.

Though I am seriously wondering how well this speaker would perform made out of solid wood. That way there wouldn't be any veneering issues. The eye candy possibilities this would open up  :drool: 

Mike