Considering Used Super V but NX-Otica is also on the table considering...

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danvprod

...that parts express has the NEO-3s back in stock. Basically here is where I am at. I have been wanting to pick up a pair of Super Vs for years. I originally wanted to build, but with the P-Audio drivers going out of stock, I've started to look elsewhere.

I listened to the LX521 and fell in love with the way those sounded, but really wanted something that would work with my Decware 4-watt Mini Torii (which the LX 521 would not work with, obviously). I also wanted to avoid the DSP for the same reasons Danny has mentioned in the past (a good DAC costs 1k, or 2-3k for a high-quality DAC, so a $500 8-channel unit can't really compete with a well-designed passive XO.)

So I'm pretty much all ready to pull the trigger on a pair of used Super Vs, but also now considering the NX-Oticas with separate OB subwoofers.

My room is about 16'6" x 14'x6" x 9' tall and I just wonder if doing the separates would give me more flexibility in the future. At the same time, with 4 watts, the 97 dB efficiency of the Super Vs and the appeal of a single speaker in my relatively small room still appeals.

I suppose I should follow my gut and go with the Vs, but I've read all the build threads on the NX-Oticas very much intrigue me.

Thanks for listening to me think out loud.
« Last Edit: 7 Feb 2017, 03:45 pm by danvprod »

Danny Richie

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I have Neo 3's in stock for the NX-Otica. And I have more being made for this year. So I guess I better get the design up on the website pretty soon.

You will have fun with the Super-V's. So either way you can't go wrong. And there have been a few pairs for sale in the used market this past year. And the 97db sensitivity is the advantage there.

The four speaker set up will give you a little more flexibility of placement. And the drivers in the NX-Otica are more accurate and more refined (detailed). And while the sensitivity is not 97db it is not far off at 94db. So you can easily drive them with those single digit amps. I am still driving mine with a little single digit chip amp.

danvprod

I feel like the Super Vs will rock, for sure. Something about a 2" compression driver that just seems to "get it right" in presentation of material from 500 Hz - 18/20 kHz. Even if the measurements of my current speakers look better on paper than my older JBL 2445J 2" CDs in a big tractrix horn, they CDs sounded better to my ears.

I was looking for details on your crazy line arrays, too, today Danny -- the ones you did for Serenity Audio? with the Neo 10s and Neo 3s. Sorry for the OT, but the quad speakers does give me that upgrade path in the future, too. Build 2x12" or 3x12" right now, plus either MTMs or NX-Oticas and then in a few years upgrade to the full line arrays.

Captainhemo

AKLegal has both the Super V's and the NX-Ottica MTM's paired with  dual 12's in h-frames.
Post  68  may interest you, later in the thread  he says they are contining to get better.  I found similar with my  NX-Otticas, they took a long time to  open right up but    once they do  :thumb:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143221.60


jay

danvprod

Thanks, Jay. I have seen that thread and that post. I do like the MTM on 2x12 build idea. It is sort of the best world. This paragraph keeps me considering the Super V, though:

"The Super Vs are not totally outclassed though.  There is just something special about them that I can't put a finger on.  It may just be due to the Coaxial configuration which immediately integrates the sound from the mid and tweeter.  You never get the sense that you are listening to two drivers.  This especially comes in handy for those of us with smaller rooms.  The Super Vs hit very hard and are a very addictive listen."

This is sort of a good representation of my room. It's pretty small and with the Super Vs, I'd have them out of the wall a bit more than is pictured here. So I'd be listening pretty close, where the co-ax would seem to have an advantage.


I go back and forth between the speakers in this arrangement vs. on the long wall with my desk against the windows. I do need to think about treatment, too, but that is a whole other discussion.

Just curious, what is the total price of the 2x12 kit (with flat packs and amps) and MTM kit (with flat packs)? Just benchmarking against a used V. And I guess, what do I loose by not adopting the lower mid woofers of the NX-Otica and going with the MTM arrangement? I suppose the woofers need to play up a bit higher to meet the cutoff of the MTMs. I know the Oticas play down to about 70 Hz if memory serves me.

Philistine

I haven't heard the NX-Otica, but do have a pair of Super-V's that I bought used - they're a great buy when you can find them.  In an adjacent room I've got a pair of N2X's (Neo3 tweeter) playing and can stream simultaneously to both systems and able to compare the 2 speakers.  Prior to the Super-V's I was using Salk HT3's with the ribbon tweeter. 

In the past I associated fidelity with high end detail and accuracy, this is what I strived for and it became the holy grail in terms of upgrading equipment - the Salk HT3's did this very well but need gobs of power to drive them .  When I bought the Super-V's I stopped listening to detail and equipment, and just listened to the relaxed musical presentation coming from them - maybe this is the 'can't put my finger on it' that make the Super V's so magical?  When I listen to the N2X's I do hear more high end detail, but still prefer to go back to the Super V's for musical enjoyment.   

Not sure if this helps or not or adds to the confusion?  Anyway, it's a vote for which ever of Danny's creations you choose.

danvprod

Thanks @Philistine. That is useful.

Very cool that you are preferring the Super Vs to the HT3 (6.5k). I really like the idea of "relaxed musical presentation" that is what I am going for. 


mlundy57

My listening position is 8' in front of the NX-Oticas which are on top of dual 12" servo subs. The music does not sound like it is coming from the individual drivers or even the individual speakers. It sounds like it is coming from the entire front wall..

The full size NX-Oticas (which are floorstanders) play down to 60Hz. The MTM (monitor) version cross around 100Hz. Either are going to dial in very easy with the A370 servo amps. Even the Wedgies, which cross at 200Hz, are easy to integrate with the subs. 

A lot of the conventional wisdom concerning sealed or ported subwoofers has to be set aside when dealing with OB subs, especially servo controlled OB subs. These subs can play up to 300Hz and I know from experience they can blend seamlessly up to 200Hz. Even crossing at 200Hz they disappear rather than localize like you would expect based on sealed/ported subs.

You can expect the subs on the Super-Vs to behave the same way which makes sense considering they are the exact same subs. I can't speak for the mid/tweeter section of the Super-Vs sine I haven't heard them.

Mike

Rocket_Ronny

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Either way you will end up up with high performance on a budget.

Rocket Ronny

danvprod

Agree, either way I am going to be in good shape. I'm not a great woodworker, so getting a nicely designed and finished Super V is appealing. If I did the flat-pack MTM and H-Frame subwoofers, I'd likely be going with a basic DuraTex finish (which is not necessarily a bad thing either).

AKLegal

AKLegal has both the Super V's and the NX-Ottica MTM's paired with  dual 12's in h-frames.
Post  68  may interest you, later in the thread  he says they are contining to get better.  I found similar with my  NX-Otticas, they took a long time to  open right up but    once they do  :thumb:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143221.60


jay

Yeah, and the more they open up the more I like the NX-Otticas better.  I think the only thing the Super Vs do better is large scale dynamics.  However, I wouldn't be sad if I had to go back to the Super Vs. 

danvprod

I went ahead an ordered 4 of the 12" Servo subwoofers today. I figure that is a good life decision either way I go  :D

Philistine

Congratulations.  Watch out for the Duratex, it goes on great but I let some dry on my laundry room sink and it's still there 3 years later  :duh:

bdp24

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I went ahead an ordered 4 of the 12" Servo subwoofers today. I figure that is a good life decision either way I go  :D

Congratulations! The 8 ohm version, I presume?

danvprod

Yes, went with the 8 ohm versions.

mlundy57

Congratulations.  Watch out for the Duratex, it goes on great but I let some dry on my laundry room sink and it's still there 3 years later  :duh:

Yep, cleans up easily with water while still wet. After it dries, forget it  :cry:

Captainhemo

^^   get that mini ginder out  !!


Congratulations! The 8 ohm version, I presume?

Congrats  danvprod   :thumb:
Only thing guys need  to  be aware of with the 8 ohm versions is that you  don't have the triple upgrade option unless you go with 6 new16 ohm  woofersrs. If that's definitely not an issue, no biggie  but with audio  & upgrades ....

jay

danvprod

Thanks, Jay. You can't do the triple, because 3 drives in parallel is too-low impedance for the Servo amps? Is that correct? Really couldn't imagine getting triples in my small room, but hey you never know.

My current strategy is to get a used pair of Super Vs. The ones I was looking at were missing the woofers. The Vs have pretty good demand on the used market, too, and I think I would be able to try them out and sell them for about as much as I buy them for, should I want to go for the NX-Oticas. I think having the single cabs are going to work better in my room.

I'll keep everyone posted and get some pictures once I get everything set up!

Captainhemo

Yes, 3 of the  8 ohm versins drops  the impdence  too low,   3 of the  16 works  fine.   The actual impedence of  the woofers is lower  than  the actual rating ( I think the 16's are closer to 14  while the   8's are  closer to 7 ? )

jay

corndog71

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This is exactly why I got the 16 Ohm drivers.  There's a little voice in the back of my head that occasionally says "It's not that expensive to add another pair" ignoring the cost of the cabinets.  :P  :roll: