Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build

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Uncle Elvis

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Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #80 on: 31 Dec 2016, 04:33 pm »
This is a super cool thread. Nice work. Thx for taking the time to post pictures. Can't wait to see the finished product!

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #81 on: 31 Dec 2016, 06:47 pm »
This is a super cool thread. Nice work. Thx for taking the time to post pictures. Can't wait to see the finished product!
Thanks UE, I hope to have more time to work on them this weekend and the coming weeks.

Best,
Ed

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #82 on: 2 Jan 2017, 02:45 am »
Finished veneering one bass unit today, slow going on the front with the recess for the grill, but I like the way it turned out, next one should go a little quicker.  Trying to use cut off pieces wherever possible, I am going to be cutting it close on veneer.  This project had more veneer work than what I initially realized but I am veneering a few more areas than originally planned. The softener definitely saved the day with regard to splitting, very little so far.  Here are a couple more pics.











Best,
Ed

Captainhemo

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #83 on: 2 Jan 2017, 04:23 am »
Wow, they are looking  really   good Ed.
I still really like the sloped top on teh inner wing of the MTM's I sent you, the new flat packs are at 9 degrees so guys have the opton of doing what they want.

Can't wait to see these when they are done man  :beer:

jay

bdp24

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Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #84 on: 2 Jan 2017, 05:26 am »
Fantastic! They look like a high-end commercial product retailing for $50,000, not a DIY job.

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #85 on: 2 Jan 2017, 07:25 pm »
Thanks Jay, I like the angle as well.  If I had it to do over for this particular build, I would have angled off the corners on both wings instead of leaving them round, however the time to do that would have been before I put them together.

Thanks bdp, that's probably stretching it about $47k but I have been reasonably happy with the way they are turning out.  If I can get a good finish I will be happy.

I am working to complete the veneering for one speaker today, however this turned out pretty well and I thought some of you might appreciate seeing it:








Best,
Ed
« Last Edit: 3 Jan 2017, 02:05 am by ebag4 »

mlundy57

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #86 on: 2 Jan 2017, 08:41 pm »
Ed,

You have my attention. How did you get the veneer to work in the waveguide?

Mike

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #87 on: 2 Jan 2017, 09:15 pm »
Ed,

You have my attention. How did you get the veneer to work in the waveguide?

Mike
Hey Mike.  I took pic of the steps, heading out to a family function now, will post more info tonight.

Best,
Ee

Captainhemo

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #88 on: 2 Jan 2017, 09:50 pm »
Yeah, that's cool, nice job.  Can't wait to hear how you did that as well

jay

zybar

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #89 on: 2 Jan 2017, 11:17 pm »
Awesome job Ed!

You really are underestimating your skills and abilities.

I hope they sound as good as they look.

George

Peter J

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Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #90 on: 3 Jan 2017, 01:40 am »
Ed, I have to say you are doing something that I've wondered to myself if it was even feasible... very cool doing veneer on that waveguide.

 Since first seeing the CNC waveguides, I've pondered the possibility of veneering and best I could thing of was segmenting somehow but it appears you've done it with a single piece. I can only guess how but my mind's cranking about it.

 Do tell!

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #91 on: 3 Jan 2017, 01:53 am »
Thanks Jay, I have a few pics showing how I went about it below.

Thanks George.  I haven't heard these yet so it is a bit of a gamble, the Wedgies I am currently running are going to be a hard act to follow, I really love them.  But having built several of Danny's designs I have no doubt they will sound great, I know if they aren't finished when I put them into action, they will likely stay in that state, that pushes me to complete speakers before I listen, that is if I want a finished pair instead f staring at mdf  :duh:.

Hi Peter, cutting wedges crossed my mind but I think this was easier.

I was thinking about how I might go about veneering the waveguide when I remembered a video I saw when I was researching vinyl application, a guy was applying vinyl to a Vette, he was working on some tail light cavities and he used paper to make a pattern, here is what I did:

I used painters tape to create my pattern





Then I decided where I wanted my seam to be and sliced the tape from center to edge



When peeled it off and flattened it out I was left with this pattern



I cut my veneer (after softening) slightly larger than the pattern



I prepped the waveguide and veneer with heatlock, once it was dry I dry fit and decided which corner to locate the seam.  I used my wife's curling iron in the corners followed up with the iron using the flat, tip and edge to get it from the front of the baffle and the rear. I finished with sandpaper around a dowell to sand the overlapped veneer as described earlier than the thread.  I found it important to set the corners first, I sprayed the softener again once complete and sanded.

Sorry for the lack of pics during the actual application.

Best,
Ed

Peter J

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Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #92 on: 3 Jan 2017, 02:22 am »
Very clever, I love it!

 Makes me want to try it. Thanks for the photos, I don't think I'd have tumbled to it otherwise.

Captainhemo

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #93 on: 3 Jan 2017, 02:48 am »
^^^  ditto,    great idea
I know the shape of the bottom of that wavegude so I'm  a little curious, is that last little   bit where it rolls down to meet the tweeter just  dyed/painted ?  did you just sand the lower edge of the veneer   to  blned n with the bery bottom radiuis ?   I can't see you being able to  make the veneer   double bend  in that area....
jay

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #94 on: 3 Jan 2017, 03:40 am »
^^^  ditto,    great idea
I know the shape of the bottom of that wavegude so I'm  a little curious, is that last little   bit where it rolls down to meet the tweeter just  dyed/painted ?  did you just sand the lower edge of the veneer   to  blned n with the bery bottom radiuis ?   I can't see you being able to  make the veneer   double bend  in that area....
jay
Hey Jay, the rear edge came out OK, but did break up some in the corners.  I tried to get a pic but I couldn't get a good one. 



I will probably end up sanding it down and dying the last 1\16".

I think a stouter veneer like Sapele might actually work around the interior edge.

Best,
Ed

Captainhemo

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #95 on: 3 Jan 2017, 03:47 am »
Hey Jay, the rear edge came out OK, but did break up some in the corners.  I tried to get a pic but I couldn't get a good one.

So, you tried to take it right down to the face of the tweeter ?    I can see that  very bottom part causing issues as it would turn into a  double bend as I  kind  of  hinted at above......  I wonder if taking  it down to the   beginning of the last  angle and  smoothing it into   the last .25"  of the guide would   work out ok...  ?   A guy could do that last  little bit black and it  would  blend right in with the tweeter,  just a thought
In any event, it looks like what you've done turned out great  :)

jay

mlundy57

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #96 on: 3 Jan 2017, 05:11 am »
Ed,

Once you get these done and playing I'm interested in your opinion of the comparision between the MTM Oticas and the Wedgies. I think you and I are the only ones who will have both to compare.

I have been listening to the MTM Oticas for a couple of months now (raw MDF). When I first started listening to them I would go back and forth between the Otiacs and the Wedgies. My initial impressions were that the Oticas were fuller, almost too much so (kinda cavernous sounding), but the Wedgies were cleaner and more precise. The Oticas seemed to lack something compared to the Wedgies but I couldn't put my finger on it.

I thought some of it might be that the Wedgies were well broken in (playing for over a year) while the Oticas were brand new. So I decided to leave the Wedgies out of the system and just listen to the MTM Oticas for a few months. That way they get well broken in and I get used to their sound. Then I will sit down and do some critical listening to the Oticas then put the Wedgies back in and see how they compare.

As the Oticas get more playing time on them and I futz with placement more they are tightening up and smoothing out. In my smallish room with the listening position 8' from the speakers I found the Oticas sound a lot better with more toe-in than the Wedgies. The additional toe-in gave the large sound stage I expect from OB speakers but reduced the cavernous sound. Two months of playing has pretty much eliminated the cavernous aspect.

The Oticas are now full sounding and silky smooth. However they do not have that crazy clean sound I remember from the Wedgies.  At the end of Jan or early part of Feb I'll put the Wedgies back in and compare them.

Either way, the MTM Oticas and Wedgies (combined with 2 x 12 OB servo Subs) are both exceptional listening experiences. My gut feel at this point is that "better" is going to come down to personal preference for a particular sound profile.

I look forward to your impressions.

I'm going to have to try that veneer trick on the waveguide.

Mike

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #97 on: 8 Jan 2017, 01:37 am »
Jay, the inner edge actually came out pretty well, the small area that broke off was likely due to me applying too much pressure with the edge of the iron, anyway, the result is pretty good with a small exception that I will have to fill.

Mike, I'm anxious to hear these, hopefully by the end of this month.

I mentioned earlier, I am running really close on my veneer, if I don't have any mistakes I should be ok, I laid out what I needed on the pieces I have left in Visio .  My initial design didn't veneer the baffle, pics below of what I had planned for those still playing along.  If I have enough veneer after getting everything else covered, I will do the baffles as well. 




















I know it is all subjective, but opinions regarding the copper vs the black brushed aluminum are welcome.  If you prefer the copper, what do you recommend as a color for the grill cloth ?  Disregard the imperfections in the vinyl, I threw these on to get a feel for the colors.  Of course once the finish is applied the wood will be darker.

Best,
Ed


mlundy57

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #98 on: 8 Jan 2017, 02:14 am »
Ed,

To me the veneered waveguide doesn't look right with the black baffle. It looks better with the copper. Probably because the copper is closer to the color of the veneer.

Mike

ebag4

Re: Veneer Question/ NX Ottica MTM-H Frame Servo Bass Build
« Reply #99 on: 8 Jan 2017, 04:05 am »
Ed,

To me the veneered waveguide doesn't look right with the black baffle. It looks better with the copper. Probably because the copper is closer to the color of the veneer.

Mike
I think I'm going to have to wait until the speaker is finished to make a choice, if the wood is more red I think the black would work, something closer to what it is now, I agree, the copper looks better.  If I get the baffles veneered it will be a moot point.

Thanks,
Ed