***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 31955 times.

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #20 on: 6 Jan 2016, 03:12 pm »
                                                                                         Peter J, very good info you shared on using wraps...will be helpful!                                                                                                 After searching for images of sconces, I can see how I need to add further explanation to clarify my suggestion to use "Sconces" as part of legs for speakers.  Hmmmm...probably easier for me to send a pic of a mock-up rather than me come up to speed on sketchup. I am "forced" to be attending a conference in Sun Valley the rest of this week so it will be awhile before I can get to a mock-up.     Thanks, Pete

I'm sure you can tough it out in Sun Valley.  Are you flying in and out of Boise (my stomping ground)?

nik.d

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #21 on: 7 Jan 2016, 12:09 pm »
Hi Peter,
Suggestion if I may. No need for front 'legs', at least not for X-Otica Main's. Much more elegant look would be with something like 'Q Acoustics 3050' speakers.
Here's a few photo's and some of my 'editing' (thought it will be quicker on photo but now I see I could easy draw it in SketchUp..)
 

From back, original & my quick editing:
 

Leg's inner sides front to back must be angled following X-Otica's trapezoidal shape. Spheres instead spikes, if that's your preference. Hope you like it.

George

Plund

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #22 on: 7 Jan 2016, 12:58 pm »
Peter J,  I came in to Sun Valley directly to Haley, through Seattle and hope to leave the same however, I am told 30% of flights are modified due to weather here, so I may go through Boise yet. You are in Boise...nice area!

Plund

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #23 on: 17 Jan 2016, 03:49 am »
Peter J,
Ok, I created a little mock-up of what a "sconce" with LED's COULD look like built-in to your outriggers. Of course, the sconces could be square'ish instead of the rounded ones in my mock-up, if desired.   Oh blast, I just remembered I was going to add spheres to the outrigger mock-up for legs, but forgot!

Here is how it might look during the day...



And might look like this in the evening...



Hmmmm...I think it would look better with a bit more focused beam aimed vertically up the side.

Pete


Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #24 on: 20 Jan 2016, 01:15 am »
Hi Peter,
Suggestion if I may. No need for front 'legs', at least not for X-Otica Main's. Much more elegant look would be with something like 'Q Acoustics 3050' speakers.
Here's a few photo's and some of my 'editing' (thought it will be quicker on photo but now I see I could easy draw it in SketchUp..)

Leg's inner sides front to back must be angled following X-Otica's trapezoidal shape. Spheres instead spikes, if that's your preference. Hope you like it.

George

Thanks for taking the time to draw that. I considered similar but I'm kinda hung up on symmetry front to back and pretty sure I'm going with the kinda industrial look of the tube leg and clamp arrangement. Who knows though, I may change my mind! Wouldn't be the first time.

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #25 on: 20 Jan 2016, 01:16 am »
Peter J,
Ok, I created a little mock-up of what a "sconce" with LED's COULD look like built-in to your outriggers. Of course, the sconces could be square'ish instead of the rounded ones in my mock-up, if desired.   Oh blast, I just remembered I was going to add spheres to the outrigger mock-up for legs, but forgot!

Here is how it might look during the day...

And might look like this in the evening...

Hmmmm...I think it would look better with a bit more focused beam aimed vertically up the side.

Pete

I'm thinkin...

Probably won't be on these, but some day I'm gonna get LEDs on a speaker.

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #26 on: 20 Jan 2016, 01:38 am »
I'm gettin' going on the main baffles. Some of this will be rehash of prior projects, but some will be unique to this project or perhaps new technique.

When I built the protos, I made a "master baffle". Sounds almost sinister, huh?  Anyway it's a template I could use later if things worked out on Danny's end. And they did!

Here's baffle pattern and first victim




I pinned them together




It's winter and cold outside. I strongly dislike, possibly hate, the dust MDF makes when machining, so I rigged this up




Other end




So I could do this mostly dust free...woo-hoo!




 I decided to make speakers like layer cake :o
Gluing up the "cake"






Flush trimmed second and third layer individually using the Dust Deputy same as before




Some holes next, but I'm going to post in case the sky falls on the internet


« Last Edit: 20 Jan 2016, 04:11 am by Peter J »

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #27 on: 20 Jan 2016, 01:57 am »
I'm pretty fussy about how I mount drivers, (some would say anal). I've tried t-nuts, wood screws into MDF, nut and bolt and I'm sure some others. Like the look of button head machine screws, but really don't like t-nuts so I've used this several times now with success.

Centering bit for hole location




Gettin' holes perpendicular




Here comes the crazy part. Who knew you could tap MDF? ( also part of the reason for layer cake)






Drip in some Cyanoacrylate (how's that for ostentation?). It's super glue




Let it dry overnight, run tap again to clean up. Slow and gentle.







Baffles were cut oversize so they were easier to work, but didn't want the BB core on the edge so I trimmed and banded perimeter




Round over on the backs using my "mega base" and the vacuum setup from earlier




Here's where we stand now



Next puzzle will be grill frames, stay tuned!


« Last Edit: 20 Jan 2016, 02:06 pm by Peter J »

cody69

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #28 on: 20 Jan 2016, 03:33 am »
Quote
It's winter and cold outside. I strongly dislike, possibly hate, the dust MDF makes when machining, so I rigged this up
Studying your picture using Dust Deputy to see how you're pulling in the dust when using the router to cut circles. Can't quite see how you're doing it... are you locating the pick-up port directly under the router when you're cutting circles?


Captainhemo

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #29 on: 20 Jan 2016, 03:35 am »
You do  great work Peter , always love your builds  :thumb:

-jay

mlundy57

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #30 on: 20 Jan 2016, 03:50 am »
So the baffles are three layers thick, Baltic Birch sandwiched between two layers of MDF? How thick is each layer?

You have my curiosity up. Why the sandwich?

Mike

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #31 on: 20 Jan 2016, 04:22 am »
Studying your picture using Dust Deputy to see how you're pulling in the dust when using the router to cut circles. Can't quite see how you're doing it... are you locating the pick-up port directly under the router when you're cutting circles?

You got it. I didn't really want to hack my bench, so I cut hole in the particle board big enough for vac hose, and clamped it all to bench. I had to cut each hole individually but it was worth the time...very little dust...amazingly little. Dust deputy is a jewel.

Here's the before pic, just before routing



Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #32 on: 20 Jan 2016, 04:46 am »
So the baffles are three layers thick, Baltic Birch sandwiched between two layers of MDF? How thick is each layer?

You have my curiosity up. Why the sandwich?

Mike

Yes 2 MDF layers are 1/2", BB is 12mm so net is just under 1 1/2"

Why? Because I like to make the simple complex :?

But seriously, a few reasons. The assembly is lighter and has more structural integrity. The thing that originally put me onto doing things this way was years ago when I built George Short's Northcreek Rhythms. If I remember correctly, his contention was that having dissimilar materials with different resonance characteristics in an assembly  would sort of short circuit the vibrational energy. My seat-of-pants engineering degree likes the notion and I assign some credibility as a result. Is it a benefit in this open baffle design? Don't honestly know the answer to that. But I doubt it hurts anything and has that cachet of high level bullshit that's so favored in this industry. Besides, I get to use the vacuum press, which never fails to be a thrill. I get giddy thinkin' about it! Is that weird?

gregfisk

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 863
  • Us alone in the universe? sure is a waste of SPACE
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #33 on: 20 Jan 2016, 05:31 am »
Yes 2 MDF layers are 1/2", BB is 12mm so net is just under 1 1/2"

Why? Because I like to make the simple complex :?

But seriously, a few reasons. The assembly is lighter and has more structural integrity. The thing that originally put me onto doing things this way was years ago when I built George Short's Northcreek Rhythms. If I remember correctly, his contention was that having dissimilar materials with different resonance characteristics in an assembly  would sort of short circuit the vibrational energy. My seat-of-pants engineering degree likes the notion and I assign some credibility as a result. Is it a benefit in this open baffle design? Don't honestly know the answer to that. But I doubt it hurts anything and has that cachet of high level bullshit that's so favored in this industry. Besides, I get to use the vacuum press, which never fails to be a thrill. I get giddy thinkin' about it! Is that weird?

When I built my new audio building the salesman from the window company new what I was building it for. He suggested using dissimilar glass (different thicknesses) in the double pane windows, the reason was the same. Different vibration patterns stop more of the sound from getting to the other side. The neat thing is it works both ways.

mlundy57

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #34 on: 20 Jan 2016, 06:16 am »
Constrained layer, now I understand

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #35 on: 20 Jan 2016, 06:50 am »
Is there any concern over the different woods expanding/contracting at different rates ?  I suppose if everything is sealed up perfectly it shouldn't be an issue but it seems to me this  same issue has been disucssed  previously  :scratch:

jay

Keithh

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 55
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #36 on: 20 Jan 2016, 07:45 am »
Quote
years ago when I built George Short's Northcreek Rhythms

Built pair of those also with Oak veneer over Mdf/Baltic birch and then when my boss let me have a damaged sheet of Japanese Tamo Ash
I rebuilt them using just Baltic Birch. Did not sound any different to me. Still regret selling them because they were the most beautiful
speakers I have ever built, but they could not compete with the Wedgies/Wedge base sonically.

Folsom

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #37 on: 20 Jan 2016, 09:15 am »
I'm not big on T-nuts either. But that looks like a lot of work...  :scratch:

Have you tried Hurricane or Barbed?

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #38 on: 20 Jan 2016, 12:27 pm »
Is there any concern over the different woods expanding/contracting at different rates ?  I suppose if everything is sealed up perfectly it shouldn't be an issue but it seems to me this  same issue has been disucssed  previously  :scratch:

jay

If there was solid lumber in the mix, I'd be more concerned. The Rhythms are about 15 years old and if the light is just right, I can sometimes glimpse the glue line under the veneer. So From a structural standpoint, I really don't have concerns. Visually, I wanted the glue line on face rather than edge. It will be harder to see close to the baffle roundover and behind grill the majority of the time.




Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1021
  • Hmmmm
Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #39 on: 20 Jan 2016, 12:54 pm »
I'm not big on T-nuts either. But that looks like a lot of work...  :scratch:

Have you tried Hurricane or Barbed?

I have used various inserts over the years. My concern in this case would be visibility because they would have to be face mounted and the driver flange doesn't cover a lot.

I imagine I spent a couple of hours additional time on driver mounting holes over just using tapping screws. Speed is why I chucked the tap into drill. I suppose the time spent on this project doesn't concern me much because it's for me and I enjoy it. I also like exploring new techniques. Trust me, my OCD hasn't really surfaced yet! It all started with me wanting a particular look on mounting screw heads and then figuring out how to make that work.

FWIW, I've used the Superglue technique on holes for self tapping screws as well. What I like is how it consolidates and hardens MDF fibers. Two or three in and outs on raw MDF and there's just not much grab left.  Try it!