***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***

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Peter J

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***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« on: 20 Dec 2015, 11:34 pm »
Ok audio nuts, here we go!

The latest




 

I've been messing around with potential finishes and mulling over how I'm going to do the things I imagine. Also gathering odds and ends material wise. The wire grill frames aren't going to happen, I'm afraid. 1/8" wire just isn't stiff enough and jumping up to 3/16 it just gets to unwieldy for the ways I have to work it. So now I'm thinking wood frames with wire reinforcements, but need to do some prototyping. On the grills I want something kinda sheer so it doesn't look like conventional grill cloth, think negligée for speakers. This is the first Danny design I built. Yep, it's window screen! Something like this only more refined.



The paint and wood idea wasn't  sitting well with me, and I don't want to have a trendy color like grey, else they look dated ten years from now. I'm leaning toward mahogany main box with chemical patina on copper gilding for the baffles...time consuming but the whole project will be. Here's some of the stuff I'm considering:



I could gild the legs, but a little of that goes a long way. There's lots of interesting powder coatings...just gives more to think about.
I'll update as things progress. Don't expect lightspeed, Rome wasn't built in a day, you know   :wink:


HAL

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #1 on: 21 Dec 2015, 12:28 am »
 :drool:

Hank

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #2 on: 21 Dec 2015, 01:56 pm »
Negligee for speakers - intriguing indeed.  Keep those gears turning, Peter.

gregfisk

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #3 on: 22 Dec 2015, 01:34 am »
I really like the copper gilding, did you add the paint on top of it?

Are those purple leather couches? We had a set several years ago that look the same color, now we have very modern, low profile light purple couches.

Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #4 on: 22 Dec 2015, 04:09 am »
I really like the copper gilding, did you add the paint on top of it?

Are those purple leather couches? We had a set several years ago that look the same color, now we have very modern, low profile light purple couches.

The other way around on the gilding. One has a red base coat and the other blue with a little red. Size and gilding on top of that, then patina and finally clear to protect it all.

That ottoman does kinda look purple in photo, but is closer to blue. It's a chair and ottoman in our living room where the X-Oticas will live. I'm laying the samples around to get a feel for what looks best.

Received some potential grill material today. Will be messing around with that in the next few days.

Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #5 on: 24 Dec 2015, 05:45 pm »
I've been pondering some, messing with the leg/footer design... just not loving the totally tubular look. I thought I'd throw it out to the group and see what y'all think. Ideas and comments encouraged.

Some considerations:

   In some cases feet could be wood or at least wood encased.
   I'm not a huge fan of cones or spikes, hence the spheres
   There's a limit to what I'll spend for someone else to machine metal stuff for me. There's 16 of 'em after all!
   I tend towards the unconventional (just in case you haven't noticed)

Here's some brain food












lacro

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #6 on: 25 Dec 2015, 02:53 pm »
I've been pondering some, messing with the leg/footer design... just not loving the totally tubular look. I thought I'd throw it out to the group and see what y'all think. Ideas and comments encouraged.

Some considerations:

   In some cases feet could be wood or at least wood encased.
   I'm not a huge fan of cones or spikes, hence the spheres
   There's a limit to what I'll spend for someone else to machine metal stuff for me. There's 16 of 'em after all!
   I tend towards the unconventional (just in case you haven't noticed)

Here's some brain food




Peter,
 Of the ones you show, I like the long round leg. How about using carbon fiber tubing for the leg?


Another leg style I like is this:


ebag4

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #7 on: 25 Dec 2015, 04:31 pm »
Peter, I like the long bar stock version, I may end up borrowing that one!

Merry Christmas,
Ed

Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #8 on: 26 Dec 2015, 12:52 am »
Hmmmm, carbon fiber...tubing rather than rod...gets the wheels cranking.

Here's next go. Wood standoffs, CF tube (sorta), not really fleshed out, still in concept stage. I think I like the standoffs.




lacro

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #9 on: 26 Dec 2015, 03:47 pm »
Hmmmm, carbon fiber...tubing rather than rod...gets the wheels cranking.

Here's next go. Wood standoffs, CF tube (sorta), not really fleshed out, still in concept stage. I think I like the standoffs.



Carbon Fiber really looks nice with wood. You could also make the stand-offs full length. Angle the top of the CF tube and insert a nice wooden cap (plug).

Or- you could make a wooden leg like one of your other pics, and cover it with twill weave CF cloth/epoxy. I always wanted to do a front baffle in twill weave CF.


Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #10 on: 26 Dec 2015, 04:48 pm »
I kinda tapped into a whole market I didn't really know existed. Seems between drones and cameras there's a boatload of fittings and accessories for CF tubing. I'm liking the idea more and more, thanks for the suggestion.

 http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=187

https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/accessories

I've got a roll of woven CF purchased years ago with just that (baffles) in mind. After experimenting with it, it's hard to keep weave straight once saturated with epoxy. Wrapping a 3D shape would make that even harder. I've wondered if using pre-preg would help, but the whole process is time consuming and expensive. I'll likely stay with pre made components for simplicity's sake.

lacro

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #11 on: 27 Dec 2015, 08:52 pm »
I kinda tapped into a whole market I didn't really know existed. Seems between drones and cameras there's a boatload of fittings and accessories for CF tubing. I'm liking the idea more and more, thanks for the suggestion.

 http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=187

https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/accessories

I've got a roll of woven CF purchased years ago with just that (baffles) in mind. After experimenting with it, it's hard to keep weave straight once saturated with epoxy. Wrapping a 3D shape would make that even harder. I've wondered if using pre-preg would help, but the whole process is time consuming and expensive. I'll likely stay with pre made components for simplicity's sake.

 Yeah - there are lots of suppliers of carbon ready-made products. It shouldn't be difficult to find a profile you like. Actually I live 15 min. from Dragonplate, but have never been there!

Laying up your own cloth isn't really that difficult, but like everything else, it takes some practice. If you decide not to use round tubing, and you don't find what you want ready-made, you could use a very thin premade panel glued to your legs.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x2-twill-black-carbon-fiber-panel-12-x24-x-02-Cutoff-Panel-730-/111603518696?hash=item19fc168ce8:g:UmUAAOSwstxU52Em

Plund

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #12 on: 4 Jan 2016, 05:14 am »
Peter J,  You recently suggested to Keith, in his very nice Wedgie Base Build thread, that he could incorporate wrap material into his base finish.  In your experience , how well do wraps adhere? ...Do you suggest bare wood be shellacked or primed before wrapping?  Should additional adhesive be used?  I have not yet worked with wrap material, but am thinking of using some carbon fiber wrap for my upcoming 8" sealed sub build...a single 8" to add support for a pair of desktop speakers.

Oh, and as for supports...I bet you could successfully pull-off some CF wrapped sconce'ish looking supports...two per side of each speaker.  At first I was thinking the sconces would not be lit but what the heck...there will be cables/wires attached to the speakers anyway so why not have LED, back-lit sconces (warmish, <3000 kelvin)?  Your speakers would not only be works-of-art in the day, but in the night also!   8)

Thanks, Pete

Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #13 on: 4 Jan 2016, 05:42 pm »
Peter J,  You recently suggested to Keith, in his very nice Wedgie Base Build thread, that he could incorporate wrap material into his base finish.  In your experience , how well do wraps adhere? ...Do you suggest bare wood be shellacked or primed before wrapping?  Should additional adhesive be used?  I have not yet worked with wrap material, but am thinking of using some carbon fiber wrap for my upcoming 8" sealed sub build...a single 8" to add support for a pair of desktop speakers.

Oh, and as for supports...I bet you could successfully pull-off some CF wrapped sconce'ish looking supports...two per side of each speaker.  At first I was thinking the sconces would not be lit but what the heck...there will be cables/wires attached to the speakers anyway so why not have LED, back-lit sconces (warmish, <3000 kelvin)?  Your speakers would not only be works-of-art in the day, but in the night also!   8)

Thanks, Pete


Pete, although I haven't' seen them used a lot, wraps seem like a really viable way to rapidly finish a variety of things. It works for the most part like old fashioned contact paper, but with the ability to reposition and heat to fit. And by the way, not much heat is needed if you use heat at all...trust me on that. A quick swipe with a hair dryer is all I've found to be necessary.

The adhesive on the wraps I've used seems more than adequate for speakers. I had to remove some after a couple of hours on primed wood and the primer came with it. Which leads me to your next question. The smoothness of the surface that you're applying to is important. I'd seal and sand raw wood...primer, sanding sealer, shellac. It probably doesn't matter much which as long as it's well adhered. The film is thin enough to telegraph irregularities in substrate.

Here's a photo of a Baltic Birch cover I made and wrapped for my computer. I think I probably sealed it with lacquer or shellac. I hope shows up with photo but you can see the plies on the end cap telegraphing through...suffice to say surface prep is important. It would probably be less so with a textured finish like CF. BTW, I think the 3M DiNoc wraps are most realistic I've seen.





These folks have lots of choices:
https://www.fellers.com/

Here's a photo of a sub I wrapped the sides on with Di Noc



I'm big on LEDs and have considered ways to incorporate into speaker design, although I'm not getting a clear picture of what you're suggesting. Any chance you could post a photo or describe in more detail?

Edited to add: Pete, if you haven't found them already, uTube has many videos on wrapping...it's interesting stuff.


Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #14 on: 6 Jan 2016, 05:33 am »
Question for y'all.

I'm considering having these made for supporting the CF legs. Only one problem, I need to order a BIG quantity to make it happen at reasonable cost. They'll fit 25mm (1") tubing and be anodized black. Only difference from drawing will be a 2mm hole centered on base portion.

 If I get a bunch of these, is there any interest out there for your own projects? I'll have extras...lots and lots of extras.



jseipp

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #15 on: 6 Jan 2016, 05:38 am »
I'd possibly be interested; they'd be a great way to build height adjustments into some projects.

mlundy57

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #16 on: 6 Jan 2016, 06:03 am »
Possibly me as well. Any idea about what type if weight they would support and what type of cost are we talking about?

Mike

Plund

Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #17 on: 6 Jan 2016, 12:28 pm »

Pete, although I haven't' seen them used a lot, wraps seem like a really viable way to rapidly finish a variety of things. It works for the most part like old fashioned contact paper, but with the ability to reposition and heat to fit. And by the way, not much heat is needed if you use heat at all...trust me on that. A quick swipe with a hair dryer is all I've found to be necessary.

The adhesive on the wraps I've used seems more than adequate for speakers. I had to remove some after a couple of hours on primed wood and the primer came with it. Which leads me to your next question. The smoothness of the surface that you're applying to is important. I'd seal and sand raw wood...primer, sanding sealer, shellac. It probably doesn't matter much which as long as it's well adhered. The film is thin enough to telegraph irregularities in substrate.

Here's a photo of a Baltic Birch cover I made and wrapped for my computer. I think I probably sealed it with lacquer or shellac. I hope shows up with photo but you can see the plies on the end cap telegraphing through...suffice to say surface prep is important. It would probably be less so with a textured finish like CF. BTW, I think the 3M DiNoc wraps are most realistic I've seen.





These folks have lots of choices:
https://www.fellers.com/

Here's a photo of a sub I wrapped the sides on with Di Noc



I'm big on LEDs and have considered ways to incorporate into speaker design, although I'm not getting a clear picture of what you're suggesting. Any chance you could post a photo or describe in more detail?

Edited to add: Pete, if you haven't found them already, uTube has many videos on wrapping...it's interesting stuff.
                                                                                         Peter J, very good info you shared on using wraps...will be helpful!                                                                                                 After searching for images of sconces, I can see how I need to add further explanation to clarify my suggestion to use "Sconces" as part of legs for speakers.  Hmmmm...probably easier for me to send a pic of a mock-up rather than me come up to speed on sketchup. I am "forced" to be attending a conference in Sun Valley the rest of this week so it will be awhile before I can get to a mock-up.     Thanks, Pete

lacro

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #18 on: 6 Jan 2016, 02:41 pm »
Question for y'all.

I'm considering having these made for supporting the CF legs. Only one problem, I need to order a BIG quantity to make it happen at reasonable cost. They'll fit 25mm (1") tubing and be anodized black. Only difference from drawing will be a 2mm hole centered on base portion.

 If I get a bunch of these, is there any interest out there for your own projects? I'll have extras...lots and lots of extras.



Hey Peter...
Instead of have the brackets made, maybe you could re-work 25mm rifle scope mounts that are pretty cheap.

Lot of choices: http://www.aliexpress.com/af/rifle%252Bscope%252Bmounts%252B25mm.html?site=glo&g=y&SearchText=rifle+scope+mounts+25mm&isAffiliate=y&initiative_id=SB_20160106061716&shipCountry=US&needQuery=n




How about this one? It fits a 20mm weaver scope rail that could be attached to the speaker cabinet.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/Free-shipping-1-25mm-Ring-Tactical-Laser-Scope-Sight-Weaver-Picatinny-20mm-Rail-Rifle-Mount-S/1914130494.html?spm=2114.10010108.100005.12.ev2Hqq


Peter J

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Re: ***X-Otica Main & Sub Build***
« Reply #19 on: 6 Jan 2016, 03:09 pm »
Mike, I think weight capacity would be considerable. I added the center hole in base to accommodate either a roll pin driven into captured rod/tube or drill it out for a machine screw. The thru holes will accommodate M3 screws, so assuming all three go through base material and center pin is used, I'll bet shear strength would be upwards of 100 lbs per unit. That coming from my seat-of-my-pants engineering degree :o

Larry, I saw those and similar. I just couldn't find what I envisioned, hence the "make it" mentality. I have a penchant for making the simple complex so this fits right in!