new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions

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Marius

new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« on: 14 Jul 2017, 08:24 am »
Not into the 24bit for the 24bit perse, but these new DGG 24 bit digital masterings based on the original analog master tapes of some of my all time favorites are a must-try for me.


 


Hope they are really what they promise to be, and that many will follow....
How to get these into the BDP is a different matter all together, but that's of later concern ;)



Just thought to let you audio lovers know of these most interesting new editions.
Great to have to 2 magnificent Ring recordings in pristine audio quality available, the other one being https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/richard-wagner-der-ring-des-nibelungen/hnum/6246420

Cheers!
Marius

Anonamemouse

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #1 on: 14 Jul 2017, 09:04 am »
Looks very interesting indeed...

CanadianMaestro

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #2 on: 14 Jul 2017, 09:59 am »
Marius,

How do these remasterings sound vs the orig? I considered getting the Karajan boxes of remasterings (orchestral, French, concerto, etc) as separate black box sets (Warner). But I backed off. The remastering of his 5th and 7th symphs of LvB were only marginally better than the orig CD release on Redbook.

Also, do these Ring boxes come with the English librettos? Makes a huge diff if one can follow the story/singing!

CanadianMaestro

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:25 am »
^^ Apparently, the 20-bit rm's revealed tape hiss. Not nice.
Don't know about these 24-b yet.
Solti's is still the King imo. Grand, not chamber-like as with HvK.

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:28 am »
Marius,

How do these remasterings sound vs the orig? I considered getting the Karajan boxes of remasterings (orchestral, French, concerto, etc) as separate black box sets (Warner). But I backed off. The remastering of his 5th and 7th symphs of LvB were only marginally better than the orig CD release on Redbook.

Also, do these Ring boxes come with the English librettos? Makes a huge diff if one can follow the story/singing!


Hi CM


Postman hasn't arrived yet....
There has been a lot of remastering going on, especially the Solti Ring is famous for that. Vinyl in various pressings, digital, 16 vs 24 bit now, and several esoteric tape transfers. Not all of them off the original masters. Not all any better than the original LP or first Cd's.


That's why i am especially keen checking this one out. Apparently the Decca engineers (Solti) and DGG (Karajan) respectively have taken the original masters and created these new editions.


They come most beautifully packed, Karajan with a 400 page booklet , indeed including the translations you asked about. Not that i don't have these in abundance already ;) Most of the time i take the score and read along, or http://www.rwagner.net/e-t-opere.html for text only.


My preparations for http://www.bayreuther-festspiele.de/english/programme_157.html have begun.... :thumb:


Cheers,
Marius

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jul 2017, 11:36 am »
^^ Apparently, the 20-bit rm's revealed tape hiss. Not nice.
Don't know about these 24-b yet.
Solti's is still the King imo. Grand, not chamber-like as with HvK.


they both have their undeniable merits, and i wouldn't want to be without either of them (and some 25 or so other recordings...)
if your interested: https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/the-karajan-ring-at-50


Hojotoho-ho!
Marius


CanadianMaestro

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jul 2017, 02:19 pm »
Thanks, Marius. I have the highlights CD set for Solti and Karajan. No completes yet. Leaning towards Solti, as Decca is superb (back then at least). Sitting through these CDs is a true test of stamina.
cheers

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #7 on: 21 Jul 2017, 06:45 pm »
Back from Berlin... (Saturn) in Europa Center
Testing, testing ....


So far, rather impressive. Marvellous editions, handsome. Magic performances of course  :thumb:
My Marantz  is only outputting 48hz though, might need a new BD player to send the 96hz feed to the BDA....

CanadianMaestro

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #8 on: 21 Jul 2017, 08:15 pm »
^ Still believe Solti's is the tops.

Krutsch

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #9 on: 21 Jul 2017, 08:22 pm »
...
So far, rather impressive. Marvellous editions, handsome. Magic performances of course  :thumb:
My Marantz  is only outputting 48hz though, might need a new BD player to send the 96hz feed to the BDA....

Blu-ray players will only output 48kHz from their coax/TOSLINK digital outputs, with Blu-ray disc content. It's a copy protection thing.

You will need to use the HDMI output to get anything higher, with respect to the sample rate of the audio, and be connected to something that supports HDCP and responds to EDID queries with support for high-res audio (e.g. an A/V Receiver). I believe the Bryston BDA-3 does this, as well, on its HDMI ports.

It's also possible that 48kHz is the actual sample rate of the content.

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #10 on: 21 Jul 2017, 08:43 pm »
Blu-ray players will only output 48kHz from their coax/TOSLINK digital outputs, with Blu-ray disc content. It's a copy protection thing.

You will need to use the HDMI output to get anything higher, with respect to the sample rate of the audio, and be connected to something that supports HDCP and responds to EDID queries with support for high-res audio (e.g. an A/V Receiver). I believe the Bryston BDA-3 does this, as well, on its HDMI ports.

It's also possible that 48kHz is the actual sample rate of the content.


HI Ken,
Thanks, i'm aware of the copy protection. Would have hoped the new Oppo's would be needed for this .. ;-) read somewhere they are able to output the higher sample rates direct out of there digital outputs. The disc says the editions is remastered at 24/96, so i would expect this to be lockable on the dac.


Of course the new BDA3 could be an even better option. Would have to know for certain the HDMI is outputting the BD signal in 96 hz though. Anyone here on the board with experience on this? BD-audio over hdmi?


Thanks,
Marius

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #11 on: 21 Jul 2017, 08:46 pm »
^ Still believe Solti's is the tops.


Depending on what aspect your focus is on, there are many Tops...
admittedly Solti's is one of them on many aspects. Electrifying conducting for sure. Many great performers on the disc.


https://youtu.be/nkOiKy6sXfM


Cheers,
Marius

Krutsch

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #12 on: 21 Jul 2017, 09:30 pm »

HI Ken,
Thanks, i'm aware of the copy protection. Would have hoped the new Oppo's would be needed for this .. ;-) read somewhere they are able to output the higher sample rates direct out of there digital outputs. The disc says the editions is remastered at 24/96, so i would expect this to be lockable on the dac.


Of course the new BDA3 could be an even better option. Would have to know for certain the HDMI is outputting the BD signal in 96 hz though. Anyone here on the board with experience on this? BD-audio over hdmi?


Thanks,
Marius

Of course it is, I do this all of the time, but use a different solution. I use one of these:

http://www.kanexpro.com/item/?id=HAECOAX

to de-embed the digital audio from the HDMI stream. Then, I get full-resolution digital audio out via SPDIF coax, as reported by the sample rate indicator on my DAC. I frequently listen to Blu-ray audio this way. Works with SACD, as well - my BD player sends 176.4 kHz output from SACDs when you select PCM output. Your player's behavior may vary.

Grant Hill

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #13 on: 22 Jul 2017, 12:24 pm »
Hi, I have a BDA3 and I can get 96/24 from blue ray concerts through HDMI....

But not many of blu ray have this sample rate, most have 48/24

Cheers


HI Ken,
Thanks, i'm aware of the copy protection. Would have hoped the new Oppo's would be needed for this .. ;-) read somewhere they are able to output the higher sample rates direct out of there digital outputs. The disc says the editions is remastered at 24/96, so i would expect this to be lockable on the dac.


Of course the new BDA3 could be an even better option. Would have to know for certain the HDMI is outputting the BD signal in 96 hz though. Anyone here on the board with experience on this? BD-audio over hdmi?


Thanks,
Marius

Ned F. Kuehn

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #14 on: 22 Jul 2017, 06:20 pm »
You can rip copy protected Blu-Ray discs to obtain the high-resolution PCM files for use on a hard drive (BDP-2/3, Aurender W20, etc to DAC). On my Windows 10 computer, I use MakeMKV to remove copy protection, and then DVD Audio Extractor to obtain the high resolution PCM tracks. Yea, it takes a bit of time, but I have done this for a number of Blu-Ray concert disks. If the above referenced box sets have high-res PCM stereo tracks, it would be another consideration rather than HDMI.

Krutsch

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #15 on: 22 Jul 2017, 07:52 pm »
You can rip copy protected Blu-Ray discs to obtain the high-resolution PCM files for use on a hard drive (BDP-2/3, Aurender W20, etc to DAC). On my Windows 10 computer, I use MakeMKV to remove copy protection, and then DVD Audio Extractor to obtain the high resolution PCM tracks. Yea, it takes a bit of time, but I have done this for a number of Blu-Ray concert disks. If the above referenced box sets have high-res PCM stereo tracks, it would be another consideration rather than HDMI.

Yes. I wasn't going to go there, but I do the same using the Mac version of the same tools, along with XLD to transcode formats.

Be careful with MakeMKV ... it comes from Russia and I recommend using it on an isolated computer.

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #16 on: 26 Jul 2017, 12:21 pm »
Of course it is, I do this all of the time, but use a different solution. I use one of these:

http://www.kanexpro.com/item/?id=HAECOAX

to de-embed the digital audio from the HDMI stream. Then, I get full-resolution digital audio out via SPDIF coax, as reported by the sample rate indicator on my DAC. I frequently listen to Blu-ray audio this way. Works with SACD, as well - my BD player sends 176.4 kHz output from SACDs when you select PCM output. Your player's behavior may vary.

 I bought the same de-embedder, well, its branded delock, with exact same specifications. https://www.allekabels.nl/hdmi-omvormer/1792/1375335/hdmi-naar-hdmi-audio-extractor-4k.html

doing some experimenting, most obvious result is the optical out of my tv set (fed by the new hdmi signal coming from the de-embedder) suddenly outputs 96 hz also, was 48k before.


Comparing sound is quite easy now. On the BDA Spdif-1 has the new hdmi signal, spdif-2 the original BD player digital out. Opt 1 the new high resolution opt out of the TV set. Both higher res sound seem to be somewhat more luxurious. More listening coming up. Not ultimately convinced yet.


First some Bayreuth live though ;-) https://www.br-klassik.de/themen/bayreuther-festspiele/index.html


all broadcasts listed on: http://www.operacast.com/bayreuth_2017.htm
Tristan und Isolde in an hour!


Cheers,
Marius







Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #17 on: 28 Jul 2017, 09:45 am »
Of course it is, I do this all of the time, but use a different solution. I use one of these:

http://www.kanexpro.com/item/?id=HAECOAX

to de-embed the digital audio from the HDMI stream. Then, I get full-resolution digital audio out via SPDIF coax, as reported by the sample rate indicator on my DAC. I frequently listen to Blu-ray audio this way. Works with SACD, as well - my BD player sends 176.4 kHz output from SACDs when you select PCM output. Your player's behavior may vary.


HI Ken,


Does it do that on all SACD's? My UD player has settings for downsampling on HDMI PCM for 192 (i take it that means no downsampling..), 96 and 48. Ive set it to 192 for now, but still have to find discs that output 192, or anything above 88 for that matter.

Im curious to know how one can check the resolution of these BD audio files?

Cheers,
Marius

Krutsch

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Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #18 on: 29 Jul 2017, 06:14 pm »
Does it do that on all SACD's? My UD player has settings for downsampling on HDMI PCM for 192 (i take it that means no downsampling..), 96 and 48. Ive set it to 192 for now, but still have to find discs that output 192, or anything above 88 for that matter.

Im curious to know how one can check the resolution of these BD audio files?


On the SACDs... the answer is Yes. Again, different players handle this in different ways. Oppo players will output 88.2/24 from SACDs sampled as PCM. My player is the new Sony UHP-H1 (which I highly recommend, BTW), which outputs as 176.4/16 (padded to 24-bit). The math works out to one of these rates, so you should never see 96 or 192 from SACD.

Again, from Blu-ray players, it depends on the content and you must output via HDMI to get anything over 48 kHz.

For me, I check the resolution by looking at my DAC which has an LDC display that reports resolution.

Marius

Re: new DGG Blu-ray Audio original masters editions
« Reply #19 on: 30 Jul 2017, 10:33 am »
Thanks,

Ive checked the Sony player before, but thought it to be a bit vague on the audio specifications.
It mentions it to be Hires, but doesn't say anything on the decodable formats. No where close to the Oppo 205.
Very cheap for an ultimate UHD player though (Oppo costs six Sony's), so ill reconsider it on your recommendation, cool.

Strange thing on my Marantz is that whenever i change the output format of the HDMI, it also changes that of the SPDIF output. So even without the HDMI route I've got hires digital signal over the SPDIF into the dac, whichnis kanda nice of course.

Cheers, and thanks for your input,
Marius


On the SACDs... the answer is Yes. Again, different players handle this in different ways. Oppo players will output 88.2/24 from SACDs sampled as PCM. My player is the new Sony UHP-H1 (which I highly recommend, BTW), which outputs as 176.4/16 (padded to 24-bit). The math works out to one of these rates, so you should never see 96 or 192 from SACD.

Again, from Blu-ray players, it depends on the content and you must output via HDMI to get anything over 48 kHz.

For me, I check the resolution by looking at my DAC which has an LDC display that reports resolution.