Ack! dAck! vs. EA Perpetual Technologies P3-A

davejcb · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Jul 2004, 07:45 pm »

Quote from: audioengr

It is suspicious to me that the larger soundstage provided by the P-3A was thought to be inferior to a smaller soundstage. Usually, this is indicative of improvement.

That's not what I read. I read that the P3-A soundstage was bigger, but that the dAck! sounded more natural. I think he meant the smaller soundstage on the dAck! wasn't much of an issue.

Rocket · « **Reply #21 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 01:14 am »

Hi guys,

I prefer a larger soundstage.

regards

rocket

Double Ugly · « **Reply #22 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 03:07 am »

Quote from: davejcb

Quote from: audioengr
It is suspicious to me that the larger soundstage provided by the P-3A was thought to be inferior to a smaller soundstage. Usually, this is indicative of improvement.

That's not what I read. I read that the P3-A soundstage was bigger, but that the dAck! sounded more natural. I think he meant the smaller soundstage on the dAck! wasn't much of an issue.

Correct on all counts, Dave.

DU

Marbles · « **Reply #23 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 03:21 am »

I wouldn't worry about the soundstage of either of the DACs, they were both fine.

My story with the Ack! dAck! is that it did not sound good in my system and I sent it back to Chris Own. Before I sent it back I let him know I had a guy who wanted it (Playntheblues).

Chris Sent him the same DAC unit I had, after he checked it out.

PlayntheBlues didn't like it either

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=6690&highlight=dack

and sold it to vpolineni, and he put it up for sale within a day.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=6807&highlight=dack

Ack! dAcks seem to come up used pretty regularly. I'm sure you can get a good deal on one.

Mine wasn't the first to be upgraded by Chris for different caps and the new battery supply/charger, but it was near the front of the line.

I don't ever recall seeing an EA modded unit for sale (transport or DAC), so it's not likely you could get a better deal than retail.

davejcb · « **Reply #24 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 03:40 am »

Interesting. How do the EA P3-As compare to the ModWright units? Anyone compare?

Marbles · « **Reply #25 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 03:45 am »

Yes, you will find that the Modwright came in second.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=7923&highlight=modwright+empirical

I didn't do the review, I haven't heard the Modwright P3a.

Coincedently though, my Sony DVP S7700 transport was modded by Dan Wright just before I bought it off audiogon. I contacted Dan and he assured me he worked on the unit and I received his original invoice to the guy I bought it from. A month or two after I bought it, I sent it to Empirical for his mods.

I could not A/B the unit and it was gone for 3 weeks so my aural acuity was not as sharp as a direct A/B, but It seemed much nicer after the Empirical mod.

davejcb · « **Reply #26 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 03:49 am »

Marbles, do you use the P1-A and P3 units as well? Do you find they are still necessary, or an improvement at all, when mated with the EA modded P3-A?

Marbles · « **Reply #27 on:** 6 Jul 2004, 04:00 am »

Quote from: davejcb

Marbles, do you use the P1-A and P3 units as well? Do you find they are still necessary, or an improvement at all, when mated with the EA modded P3-A?

I have never tried a P1-a and I only use the standard wall wart.

The mods were done with the wall wart in mind, and mine is plugged into a PS Audio PP600.

One day I might break down and try the P1-a, but right now I have other things in my system to tweak before I need to worry about my digital front end.

What I WILL say is that the EA modded P3a is a special Dac, and when I heard the demo unit, I knew I had to get one. It certainly was more than I wanted to spend, but at that point I was like a crack whore...I just had to have it

From what I'm told the better your transport, the better the P3a gets.

If you have a mediocre transport, you might not notice how good it is. If you have a really nice transport, you will be rewarded.

ctviggen · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Jul 2004, 12:21 am »

The guy who put it up for sale did so because it overheated his amplifier (not sure how it could do that -- don't you use a preamp?). I'm thinking of the Dack Ack also, but I'm not sure if my CD player is a good match.

vpolineni · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Jul 2004, 12:24 am »

Bob,
I was using an integrated amplifier at the time... while the sound was very nice, my amplifier heated up to the levels that my current class A amp does and that was a class AB amp which normally ran very cool.

Marbles · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Jul 2004, 02:27 am »

For you guys considering the Ack!, you should get on the demo list.

You should also consider the Scott Nixon Tubedac or Tubedac plus. I'm pretty sure Scott offers a 30 day money back gauranty, but check that out since it's been a while since I had his.

For about the same as the Ack! (or even a bit less), this Dac sounded better to me.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #31 on:** 7 Jul 2004, 03:23 am »

Quote

For about the same as the Ack! (or even a bit less), this Dac sounded better to me.

Not to me. That's why it is always important to home demo stuff to make sure it works and matches your listening preferences.

Michael

Marbles · « **Reply #32 on:** 7 Jul 2004, 03:36 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71

it is always important to home demo stuff to make sure it works and matches your listening preferences.

Michael

Sounds like we CAN agree on this

davejcb · « **Reply #33 on:** 12 Jul 2004, 08:16 pm »

Received my Ack! dAck! today, very nicely built unit. Will try it out soon and post impressions, I may also get a demo EA P3-A...

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Jul 2004, 08:24 pm »

davejcb,

davejcb · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Jul 2004, 09:08 pm »

Yeah I know I'm a hack, but that cat kicks ass.

dvb · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 03:44 pm »

I also have a Zen SE84C (just recently acquired, so still getting its measure too). I have an Ack dAck on its way for audition, won't be able to give it a listen for another three weeks (Damn -- stuck here on the shore of a beautiful lake, far from my rig!)

So, I'll be looking forward to your impressions. I am currently using a Mensa DIO, which has great treble and bass extension. Some have reported that the Ack sacrifices these in favour of better mid range.

I will be curious as to the synergy -- will the Mensa flesh out the weaknesses of the Zen, or will the Ack reinforce the strengths (and weaknesses) of the Zen?

davejcb · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 Jul 2004, 05:58 pm »

I'll be setting it up soon, still renovating...

I'll also be swapping out the Auricaps to Sonicaps, which apparently help extend the highs and lows. Will let you know how it turns out.

dvb · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 05:43 am »

Personally, I would be slow to mess with Chris's design, including caps. Somewhere on this site (I don't have the link handy), Chris expresses his reluctance to change caps based on other people's auditions -- he says the dAck has been voiced in a particular way, including with particular ICs (silver twisted pairs, I believe). What others are hearing may be the result of their own particular system synergies, rather than absolutes -- that is, a change of caps may be good in one person's system, but not in all systems. Anyway, I guess if you are handy with a soldering iron, it doesn't hurt to experiment.

As it turns out, my dAck arrived today, but here at my summer place, not at home where the SE84C and other goodies are.
Had to pick up a cheap digital IC ($CAN30.00) to hook up to the ADCOM cdp, and the Bryton B60 is serving as preamp into an AVA500ex, with Mirage 5si speakers. So, not too shabby a system. The cable and the dAck seem to be breaking in, and that lovely midrange is emerging.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 12:30 pm »

Quote

Somewhere on this site (I don't have the link handy), Chris expresses his reluctance to change caps based on other people's auditions -- he says the dAck has been voiced in a particular way, including with particular ICs (silver twisted pairs, I believe).

Don't forgot that when Chris updated the dAck from the $395 version to the $525 version he updated the caps to address the criticism some people had of it's extension problems. If you have the older version, it may be smart to change the caps. If you have the newer version, it makes no sense to change them, as Chris chose the best caps for the dAck.

Michael