Something new that sounds incredible

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Danny Richie

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #640 on: 13 Feb 2015, 06:36 pm »
Ric, I don't recommend some of those recommendations, but I'll have to come back to this later.

Bobusm

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #641 on: 1 Mar 2015, 09:43 am »
Hi,

I have front ported N3's and followed this wedge design from beginning. Only problem is I cannot put them out  more than an foot from back wall. Is it worth upgrading even if I loose some of the quality of wedges because of placement. I do really like the sound of N3 and would like to go further, but not quite sure if wedges will improve anything in my room and current position.

Thanks

Danny Richie

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #642 on: 1 Mar 2015, 06:08 pm »
Hi,

I have front ported N3's and followed this wedge design from beginning. Only problem is I cannot put them out  more than an foot from back wall. Is it worth upgrading even if I loose some of the quality of wedges because of placement. I do really like the sound of N3 and would like to go further, but not quite sure if wedges will improve anything in my room and current position.

Thanks

Your room placement really limits you. The Wedgies are not big speakers though. You can always pull them well out into the room and enjoy them. Then move them up close to the wall for casual listening or TV watching.

Ultralight

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #643 on: 29 Mar 2015, 12:55 pm »
Any update on the lower half to fill in the base for these speakers?

Thanks,
UL

rak313

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #644 on: 5 Apr 2015, 08:34 pm »
I have this pair of cabinets finished. I went with less depth and a lower gloss finish than I put on the N3's









I should get them wired up in the next couple of days.

Mike

Those look spectacular.  How did you apply the veneer around the round-overs without cracking it?   This was raw veneer right,  not paper backed?  You mentioned needing to learn new techniques.  Can you elaborate?  A whole section on applying the veneer would be welcomed by me.   

I have been away for 9 months, and just read this entire thread.  I'm a bit confused on the recommended low end below 200 Hz.  I saw many options mentioned, including 9 of the LGKs, or multiple 8" or 12" OB servos.  Then there is the dual 8" servo  "Best Stand ever" thread.   So what is the status of a bass section for this speaker?  I find the concept/implementation really good, but incomplete without the bass section.  The frequency for the single break HP filter (to limit the power to the midrange drivers) is not specified.  If you do use a 8" or 12" OB servo, where do you put the filter break frequency?

At any rate, this looks like a marvelous speaker design once its finished.   


mlundy57

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #645 on: 6 Apr 2015, 04:10 am »
Those look spectacular.  How did you apply the veneer around the round-overs without cracking it?   This was raw veneer right,  not paper backed?  You mentioned needing to learn new techniques.  Can you elaborate?  A whole section on applying the veneer would be welcomed by me.   

I have been away for 9 months, and just read this entire thread.  I'm a bit confused on the recommended low end below 200 Hz.  I saw many options mentioned, including 9 of the LGKs, or multiple 8" or 12" OB servos.  Then there is the dual 8" servo  "Best Stand ever" thread.   So what is the status of a bass section for this speaker?  I find the concept/implementation really good, but incomplete without the bass section.  The frequency for the single break HP filter (to limit the power to the midrange drivers) is not specified.  If you do use a 8" or 12" OB servo, where do you put the filter break frequency?

At any rate, this looks like a marvelous speaker design once its finished.   

rak313,

Thanks. You are correct, I used raw wood veneer that was about 5" wide. To get it to fold around the edges I sprayed the pieces with veneer softener, stacked the pieces between paper towels, put a wide board and weight on top and let them sit overnight. The next day they were fairly pliable. Then I put two coats of Heat Lock glue on each piece and on the cabinet. Since I used Heat Lock glue I used a cloths iron with a pillow case between it and the veneer to iron the veneer down.

None of the veneer was wide enough to wrap the front in one piece so I started in the center of the front and applied the first piece wrapping it around one edge then splicing a second piece going the other way and wrapping it around the other edge. I spritzed some more veneer softener on each piece just before I ironed them on.

The big lesson that I learned is not to use the iron on method if my veneer is not wide enough to completely cover the piece I'm veneering without splicing. This is because the heat from the iron causes the veneer to expand and no matter how hard I tried I could not consistently get good tight seams after the veneer cooled off. 

From now on, I will only use the iron on method with paper backed veneer, which I can get in large enough sheets to cover the the cabinet in one piece. If I want to use raw wood veneer I will need to use the cold press method and limit it to straight edges since I can't figure out how to press more than one side at a time.

As for how I applied the veneer in general, the process was similar to what I described in my N3TL build thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120896.40 .  Scroll down to reply #47. 

The difference with the Wedgies was that since I was working with narrow pieces of veneer, I had to apply one piece but have some wax paper under the edge so that it wouldn't glue all the way down. Then I would align the next piece slightly overlapping the first then iron down the middle of the second piece. Then I would clamp a straight edge over the seam and cut through both pieces of veneer. Next I would remove the scrap pieces and the wax paper, then iron down the seam. Then repeat the process until all the veneer is applied.

As for handling the frequencies below 200Hz, there are a lot of options. Since the Wedgies are open baffle, ultimately you want an open baffle solution for the lower frequencies so everything works together in the best way possible. There is more than one way to accomplish this. That is why you saw so many different methods discussed. Danny is working on something specific to match with the Wedgies.

Mike

rak313

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #646 on: 6 Apr 2015, 04:57 pm »
rak313,

Thanks. You are correct, I used raw wood veneer that was about 5" wide. To get it to fold around the edges I sprayed the pieces with veneer softener, stacked the pieces between paper towels, put a wide board and weight on top and let them sit overnight. The next day they were fairly pliable. Then I put two coats of Heat Lock glue on each piece and on the cabinet. Since I used Heat Lock glue I used a cloths iron with a pillow case between it and the veneer to iron the veneer down.

None of the veneer was wide enough to wrap the front in one piece so I started in the center of the front and applied the first piece wrapping it around one edge then splicing a second piece going the other way and wrapping it around the other edge. I spritzed some more veneer softener on each piece just before I ironed them on.

The big lesson that I learned is not to use the iron on method if my veneer is not wide enough to completely cover the piece I'm veneering without splicing. This is because the heat from the iron causes the veneer to expand and no matter how hard I tried I could not consistently get good tight seams after the veneer cooled off. 

From now on, I will only use the iron on method with paper backed veneer, which I can get in large enough sheets to cover the the cabinet in one piece. If I want to use raw wood veneer I will need to use the cold press method and limit it to straight edges since I can't figure out how to press more than one side at a time.

As for how I applied the veneer in general, the process was similar to what I described in my N3TL build thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120896.40 .  Scroll down to reply #47. 

The difference with the Wedgies was that since I was working with narrow pieces of veneer, I had to apply one piece but have some wax paper under the edge so that it wouldn't glue all the way down. Then I would align the next piece slightly overlapping the first then iron down the middle of the second piece. Then I would clamp a straight edge over the seam and cut through both pieces of veneer. Next I would remove the scrap pieces and the wax paper, then iron down the seam. Then repeat the process until all the veneer is applied.

As for handling the frequencies below 200Hz, there are a lot of options. Since the Wedgies are open baffle, ultimately you want an open baffle solution for the lower frequencies so everything works together in the best way possible. There is more than one way to accomplish this. That is why you saw so many different methods discussed. Danny is working on something specific to match with the Wedgies.

Mike

Thanks for that technique on veneering!

Regarding the below 200 Hz using either a 8" or 12" servo design, I would like to see specific recommendations regarding the wedgies.  For example say what frequency to cross them over at.  Are both the high pass of the wedgies and the bass servos set to the same crossover freq?  What settings are used for the servo amp? Are they different for the A370PEQ vs the HX300-8OB. 

I realize there are many options, but the reason I go for a kit that Danny has blessed is that if you follow what he has specified to the letter, you will get great performance.  So what I'm wanting (expecting) is a definitive solution from Danny that specs everything.  I take it that is coming, just not quite ready yet.   


rak313

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #647 on: 28 Apr 2015, 04:51 pm »
Are these kits still available ?

Danny Richie

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #648 on: 28 Apr 2015, 06:21 pm »
Are these kits still available ?

Not until I can get some more Neo 3 tweeters. Right now there are none available.

rak313

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #649 on: 28 Apr 2015, 07:42 pm »
Not until I can get some more Neo 3 tweeters. Right now there are none available.

I was afraid of that, and was hoping you had some stashed away for your kits.  We will just have to hope it's not too long a wait. 

Thanks for the responses to my posts.
 

mlundy57

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #650 on: 10 Jun 2015, 10:28 pm »
After multiple coats of primer and sanding I am ready to start my base coat, here you go:













More later.

Ed,

When you painted your Wedgies, what did you use for the primer and the base coat? Also, how many coats of each did you use and how did you prep between coats?

Thanks,

Mike

ebag4

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #651 on: 11 Jun 2015, 12:22 am »
Hey Mike, I am the last guy to be answering painting questions, but I will tell you what I did.

With regard to the number of coats, I can't tell you, It was Jay that told me "to really work at getting the seams as perfect as you can even if it means filling/sanding a few times.  The extra effort will pay off", so I kept sanding and priming until I felt confident the  seams wouldn't show, this took quite a few steps and I can see I could have done a little more in various areas.  So jay was right and I still could have done more  :oops:.

I used scotchbrite pads between coats in areas where I wasn't sanding.

I used rustoleum primer and a two part duplicolor metalcast red.

The base coat went on easily over the primer, the issue I ran into was with how heavily to apply the red topcoat.  I ending up applying it more heavily than I felt was correct, but in the end it came out ok.  I used the scotchbrite between the top coats as well, but sparingly as I recall.

One other note, it may seem obvious but the more topcoats the darker it gets and loses some of the sheen, I would opt for fewer coats if doing it again.

Hope that helps!

Best,
Ed
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2015, 01:29 am by ebag4 »

bdp24

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #652 on: 11 Jun 2015, 01:12 am »
Cool color, which looks different in different pics, either a striking light blue or a pale green, both very 50's. Fender offers their guitars in a similar color. Lake Placid Blue, I believe they call it.

ebag4

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #653 on: 11 Jun 2015, 01:16 am »
Cool color, which looks different in different pics, either a striking light blue or a pale green, both very 50's. Fender offers their guitars in a similar color. Lake Placid Blue, I believe they call it.
It had a cool sheen to it, but it is the base coat for the translucent red topcoat.

Best,
Ed

Captainhemo

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #654 on: 11 Jun 2015, 02:25 am »
Mike,
 As Ed said,   work those seams until you can't   stand it any  more  !! Even when you think they are perfect,   hit them again as it really is  amazing what   shows through. 
Some guys don't  like doing this but  when I'm  pretty sure I've got them  perfect, I roll a watered down  mix of  glue/wter  (about  2 parts glue/1 part water) over  the entire cabinet.   Let it dry  and then   block that out .  When you take the sheen of the glue off, if there is anything left to deal with ,  it will stand out.  The glue also gets absorbed a bit especially by the open "grain"   cuts on the MDF.
After   that,  I hit it with primer (last time I used  zimeser Bullseye 123 and test it with  the paint I'm going to use). Last thing yo uneed is a reaction between paint and primer but so far I haven't had issues.   My buddy who is a painter  always recommends   that I try a  product  made by Sherwin Williams http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/premium-wall-wood-primer/ but I haven't tried it yet.  It used to actually be called something else , they recently changed the name. I believe Ron tried it once, he may be able to chime in n this.
 I"ve found the Bulls Eye 1,2,3 sticks extremely well and is esay to sand very smooth.    Hope some of hat is useful for you.

On another note,  sounds like  the  triple 12's  have finally made   through the   paint booth as an extra,  hoping to have them back here tomorrow. Can let you know how the base coat/clear coat tunred out, it was the  water based automotive finish

jay

 

mlundy57

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #655 on: 11 Jun 2015, 02:45 am »
Ed,

Thanks

Jay,

I am planning on using a wood carving gouge and cutting a shallow channel on the seams then using an epoxy fillet to stabilize the seams first before applying a primer. I have also used the Zinser Bullseye 1-2-3 and like it, plus it is the recommended base for the paint I am looking at using.

What kind of money are they charging you to paint the bases if I may ask?  I checked an auto body shop today and they shot me a ball park of $1,200 for 2 Wedgies and 2 bass modules. That sounds steep to me. Not sure if I should check out a few more places or buy an HVLP spray system and do it myself. 

I have been toying with the idea of an HVLP sprayer for varnish top coats for awhile now anyway and the system I'm looking at can spray primer and paint just as easily as a top coat. Plus I recently came across an inexpensive and simple way to set up a temporary spray booth. The lack of which has been a main reason I haven't pursued the HVLP system before.

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #656 on: 11 Jun 2015, 02:47 am »
I have been cutting out the new wedge bases for these today. I'll be on them again tomorrow and will post some pics when I get them together.

mlundy57

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #657 on: 11 Jun 2015, 02:59 am »
I have been cutting out the new wedge bases for these today. I'll be on them again tomorrow and will post some pics when I get them together.

Great!! Looking forward to it.

gregfisk

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Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #658 on: 11 Jun 2015, 03:08 am »
I have been cutting out the new wedge bases for these today. I'll be on them again tomorrow and will post some pics when I get them together.

That's great Danny :thumb:, I'm very interested in this design for a small place I have

Captainhemo

Re: Something new that sounds incredible
« Reply #659 on: 11 Jun 2015, 04:09 am »
Ed,

Thanks

Jay,

I am planning on using a wood carving gouge and cutting a shallow channel on the seams then using an epoxy fillet to stabilize the seams first before applying a primer. I have also used the Zinser Bullseye 1-2-3 and like it, plus it is the recommended base for the paint I am looking at using.

What kind of money are they charging you to paint the bases if I may ask?  I checked an auto body shop today and they shot me a ball park of $1,200 for 2 Wedgies and 2 bass modules. That sounds steep to me. Not sure if I should check out a few more places or buy an HVLP spray system and do it myself. 

I have been toying with the idea of an HVLP sprayer for varnish top coats for awhile now anyway and the system I'm looking at can spray primer and paint just as easily as a top coat. Plus I recently came across an inexpensive and simple way to set up a temporary spray booth. The lack of which has been a main reason I haven't pursued the HVLP system before.

Mike

My buddy  the painter (sure wish he lived in town)  loves his  HVLP system, he uses it a  lot, they can be pretty versitile but I guess have their limits like anything else .
As for the   H-frames and pricing,  we took them in bare, they didn't want me to prime them so it made it pretty difficult to prep, the thin coat of  glue/water helps  show  things up. When  the  guys  looked them over they felt they were   fine.  I told them if they found any issues after priming to call and we'd pick them up  to take care of them but never  had any calls.  I believe they  sparyed  a couple coats of some  primer / sealer  they use then gave them a quick sanding before painting.
The bottoms were alreay done in  bed liner so  not much wrestling was involved.  I believe they charged my buddy  $400, maybe $500,  I can find out for sure   tomorrow after he picks them up  but that's   a good ball park.
Pretty anxious to see them   and get them finished up  ,  hopefully will have some pics tomorrow  in the thread.

I've never tried the  cut into the seam and  rfill method but  have read about it.  Let us know how that goes,  I'd  be interested in trying it myself one  of these days to

jay