The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread

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Ric Schultz

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #140 on: 21 Jun 2016, 11:38 pm »
Speaking of felt......look on page 2 of this thread.  Mike Eastman.....with my coaxing added felt to his waveguided Neo three on his Serenity 7 speakers with good results.  The waveguide on the NX-Oticas has a hard edge as it meets the baffle.  This will lead to massive diffraction (exaggeration slightly).  If you put a very small ring of felt on the baffle right around the waveguide so the felt sticks very slightly over that edge then the sound will be GREATLY!!!! improved.  This I have found true over and over again.  Never fails.  Try it and know something.....or resist and know nothing.

rajacat

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #141 on: 21 Jun 2016, 11:50 pm »
Hmm.... maybe I'll try that with my speakers. :)

Danny Richie

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #142 on: 22 Jun 2016, 12:49 am »
Speaking of felt......look on page 2 of this thread.  Mike Eastman.....with my coaxing added felt to his waveguided Neo three on his Serenity 7 speakers with good results.  The waveguide on the NX-Oticas has a hard edge as it meets the baffle.  This will lead to massive diffraction (exaggeration slightly).  If you put a very small ring of felt on the baffle right around the waveguide so the felt sticks very slightly over that edge then the sound will be GREATLY!!!! improved.  This I have found true over and over again.  Never fails.  Try it and know something.....or resist and know nothing.

You are not telling me something new here. I do this constantly. Felting the edges of my new waveguide was used extensively in the design and development.



You work with it until the felt has no effect. And in this case the finished product had a flat curve with no felt. On or off made no difference.

And in the NX-Otica there is little to no effect of felting around it. It's too big of a wave guide and the radius is too gradual and the transition to the baffle is real smooth.

You know, instead of speculating this stuff constantly, you can just ask me and I'll tell you what the result is.

Danny Richie

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #143 on: 22 Jun 2016, 12:56 am »
And another thing. The baffle is often part of the waveguide. And sometimes adding felt can cause a dipped area to occur. Just because it absorbs sound doesn't always mean that is a good thing.

Oh, and when a wave guide like the one on the NX-Otica is used it allows the tweeter to play MUCH lower. Those longer wavelengths don't react the same to edge or surface reflection. It plays low enough to get into an omni range, and there is a transition range there where the edge shape and or felt is very minimized just like the output of a woofer. 

Ric Schultz

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #144 on: 22 Jun 2016, 01:13 am »
Danny,
You say results.....I believe you are talking measurements.  I am talking listening.  Folks, believe your ears....not words from me or anyone.  Believe your ears......experiment and find out for yourself.  That is what Jay did when he turned around the woofer......he heard better sound.  Danny says it would not make a difference.  Jay believes his ears.  Do you believe your ears?  Do you want better sound?  If yes, then you need to experiment and find out for yourself.  There is no other way.  No one on this earth has all the answers.  Listen to everyone.....believe no one.  Believe your ears!  I have no doubt that felting around the waveguide on the NX-Oticas would improve the sound.  Try it and find out for yourself.....do not believe me.....do not believe anyone....trust your own ears!  In life, it is trust your heart.....in audio....it is trust your ears.

Unless someone asks me a direct question this is my last statement about felting, time aligning, running woofers in the same direction and open baffles.  You all know what I believe.  I have poured you a drink......some will scorn....some will fight....some will taste.....some will sip.....some will spit out.....some will devour....some will celebrate....some will praise.  Be that as it may.....blessings to all.

SoCalWJS

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #145 on: 22 Jun 2016, 01:34 am »
Danny,
You say results.....I believe you are talking measurements.  I am talking listening.  Folks, believe your ears....not words from me or anyone.  Believe your ears......experiment and find out for yourself.  That is what Jay did when he turned around the woofer......he heard better sound.  Danny says it would not make a difference.  Jay believes his ears.  Do you believe your ears?  Do you want better sound?  If yes, then you need to experiment and find out for yourself.  There is no other way.  No one on this earth has all the answers.  Listen to everyone.....believe no one.  Believe your ears!  I have no doubt that felting around the waveguide on the NX-Oticas would improve the sound.  Try it and find out for yourself.....do not believe me.....do not believe anyone....trust your own ears!

Unless someone asks me a direct question this is my last statement about felting, time aligning, running woofers in the same direction and open baffles.  You all know what I believe.  I have poured you a drink......some will scorn....some will fight....some will taste.....some will sip.....some will spit out.....some will devour....some will celebrate....some will praise.  Be that as it may.....blessings to all.
[eating popcorn emoticon]

I trust Danny's ears more than almost anybody I know. Yes, he uses measurements, but his ears are the final say so.

HAL

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #146 on: 22 Jun 2016, 02:07 am »
If those are the prototypes that I heard at Danny's last year, and they certainly look like it, you've never heard anything like them- and Mr. Gonzalez has an amazing set of speakers.  Not the Wilson's, not the TAD's, not the Magico's, -nothing that I've ever heard were that good. 
Could something make them better?  Yeah, sure.  But other than a few of the guys that had actually been in that living room, everyone else is just guessing.

Luckily I was there with Scott, Danny and Gary.  The only speakers I heard since 1979 that finally met all my wants in a speaker system.  When I heard them, I think they had the opposing H-Frame 3x12s.  Amazing to say the least.

Danny Richie

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #147 on: 22 Jun 2016, 02:09 am »
Danny,
You say results.....I believe you are talking measurements.  I am talking listening.  Folks, believe your ears....not words from me or anyone.  Believe your ears......experiment and find out for yourself.  That is what Jay did when he turned around the woofer......he heard better sound.  Danny says it would not make a difference.  Jay believes his ears.  Do you believe your ears?  Do you want better sound?  If yes, then you need to experiment and find out for yourself.  There is no other way.  No one on this earth has all the answers.  Listen to everyone.....believe no one.  Believe your ears!  I have no doubt that felting around the waveguide on the NX-Oticas would improve the sound.  Try it and find out for yourself.....do not believe me.....do not believe anyone....trust your own ears!  In life, it is trust your heart.....in audio....it is trust your ears.

Unless someone asks me a direct question this is my last statement about felting, time aligning, running woofers in the same direction and open baffles.  You all know what I believe.  I have poured you a drink......some will scorn....some will fight....some will taste.....some will sip.....some will spit out.....some will devour....some will celebrate....some will praise.  Be that as it may.....blessings to all.

I think the folks around here will trust the designer that not only measures but listens as well. You still offer only speculation. If you want to give it a shot I'll sell you a NX-Otica kit and you can see if your speculation holds true over what I have measured and heard. Then you  can try it for yourself.

And again there is a lot you are not taking into account. I covered most of it already and have tried to explain it to you but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
« Last Edit: 22 Jun 2016, 03:10 am by Danny Richie »

grimace

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #148 on: 22 Jun 2016, 02:47 am »
Danny, nice example of showing patience and being humble.  You are a class act.  Also, nice to see people disagreeing about something and not demonizing the other person.  Kind of rare nowadays unfortunately...

mlundy57

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #149 on: 22 Jun 2016, 03:13 am »
Dear All,

I just wanted if allowed to post a picture of the fantastic line arrays from GR Research with the servo drives

The combination of open baffle, line array, extreme short decay creates really an amazing combination it is really something...

I would like to thanks Danny and all the persons who are involved in this circle. With platforms such as Audiocircle it is possible to speed up the process of finding your way into audio (not only in the high end sector of it).

Thanks Miguel




Miguel,

Welcome and you lucky dog  :green:. My grandson and I got to listen to those speakers at Danny's and I have to agree with Scott and Rich (HAL). Those are seriously the best I have ever heard. I would tell you to enjoy listening but with those it would be impossible not to.

Mike

bdp24

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #150 on: 22 Jun 2016, 03:38 am »
I think the folks around here will trust the designer that not only measures but listens as well. You still offer only speculation. If you want to give it a shot I'll sell you a NX-Otica kit and you can see if your speculation holds true over what I have measured and heard. Then you and try it for yourself.

And again there is a lot you are not taking into account. I covered most of it already and have tried to explain it to you but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

When Bill Johnson of Audio Research Corp. was still alive he would make appearances at ARC dealer's shops to talk about his products with those shop's clientele. At one such appearance I attended, Bill told a story I find appropriate to repeat here. In the late 70's Bill sent a new model pre-amp to Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound magazine for a review, and soon heard back from Harry, who told him the pre-amp was defective. Bill asked him to send the pre-amp back, he would take a look at it. Upon it's return he did just that, and found the pre-amp to be working fine. Bill called Harry to investigate the matter, and learned that Pearson had in preparation for evaluating the pre-amp utilized a new tweak spreading through the high end, the shorting plug. A shorting plug is a regular ol' RCA plug that has had it's hot and ground legs soldered together; when inserted into an unused input jack, it shorts that input to ground, thereby preventing any noise from entering the pre-amp through that unused input. A good idea, one I use to this day. But Harry, lacking even the most basic electronic knowledge, had inserted shorting plugs into the pre-amps unused OUTPUT jacks! Uh, yeah, that will make a pre-amp act "defective" alright!

The moral of this story obviously being, a little knowledge is, as the old expression goes, a dangerous thing. Professional audio designers have always used measurements to evaluate the basic correctness of a circuit, cross-over, driver's frequency response, whatever. That's not the end of the design process, but no professional designer does so without taking many, many measurements. The educated ear is the final arbitrator, but the notion of the irrelevance of technical measurements to the sound quality of an audio product is one created by subjective reviewers like Harry Pearson. The "real" audio critic J. Gordon Holt, founder/owner/reviewer of Stereophile Magazine, being a trained electronic engineer, used measurements regularly in his reviews. Stereophiles current editor, John Atkinson, continues to do so. Gordon, unlike all the other professional reviewers in the U.S. in the 1960's, also listened at length to the device under review, and described it's sound character and quality to his readers. He single-handedly created subjective reviewing, and Harry Pearson and his Absolute Sound Magazine single-handedly destroyed it's credibility. End of history lesson, and of story with a moral, one I believe not lost on y'all ;-).

Miguel Gonzalez

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #151 on: 22 Jun 2016, 03:47 am »
Thanks very much for the welcome and kind words...

I am glad that you share the view that the envelope has been pushed with those speakers...

I would say we should be glad that entrepreneurs at human scale can develop audio products that improve the audio field. In many industries, change only happens trough mega corporations. It is surprising when you think about it knowing that hearing or audition is a major sense for the human being.

Miguel

Miguel Gonzalez

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #152 on: 22 Jun 2016, 03:50 am »
Miguel,

Welcome and you lucky dog  :green:. My grandson and I got to listen to those speakers at Danny's and I have to agree with Scott and Rich (HAL). Those are seriously the best I have ever heard. I would tell you to enjoy listening but with those it would be impossible not to.

Mike

Thanks very much for the welcome and kind words...

I am glad that you share the view that the envelope has been pushed with those speakers...

I would say we should be glad that entrepreneurs at human scale can develop audio products that improve the audio field. In many industries, change only happens trough mega corporations. It is surprising when you think about it knowing that hearing or audition is a major sense for the human being.

Miguel

Captainhemo

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #153 on: 22 Jun 2016, 03:58 pm »
Miguel,

Your speakers are a one of a kind pinnacle of high end audio. You should give them their own thread complete with pictures. And we'll help you with tips on room placement and tweaks.

For sure  !
Don still talks about  hearing those speakers at Danny's place last fall, bet they are incrediable :ber:

jay

Tyson

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #154 on: 22 Jun 2016, 05:40 pm »
Suddenly, I have panel envy :P  Congrats Miguel! 

Miguel Gonzalez

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #155 on: 22 Jun 2016, 07:53 pm »




Suddenly, I have panel envy :P  Congrats Miguel!

The combination of open baffle + line array + extremely shorts decays can be very addictive...

mlundy57

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #156 on: 22 Jun 2016, 08:11 pm »



The combination of open baffle + line array + extremely shorts decays can be very addictive...

Shhhh... Don't tell the DEA :lol:

Mike

2bigears

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #157 on: 22 Jun 2016, 10:57 pm »
 :D. Sorry.  Late to the party,   Can you buy these speakers or kits only ?  I have a set of Super V's and the bass is the reason the neighbour knocks on my door  after a session.   Ha.   I don't answer.  :D

Danny Richie

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #158 on: 22 Jun 2016, 11:23 pm »
:D. Sorry.  Late to the party,   Can you buy these speakers or kits only ?  I have a set of Super V's and the bass is the reason the neighbour knocks on my door  after a session.   Ha.   I don't answer.  :D

If the drivers are made available again then I can build another pair. They use the Neo 10 and a custom Neo 3.

2bigears

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #159 on: 23 Jun 2016, 02:59 am »
 :D.  Why the shortage ?   :duh:   :D  is the world running out of stuff to make things ?