DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones

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chakija

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #100 on: 28 Dec 2008, 12:32 pm »
Well, i think it's the dust cap coating...
It seems little more stiffer on black alpha.
Also cone surrounding is with more traces of glue  :scratch:
I had alpha 6" and magnet is identical with black version of 15''. Size and shape is same but there r some tiny differences comparing to silver alpha, like vent gap protecting grill, or finishing radius etc...
I compared them again, and difference is very obvious !
Silver alpha makes your ear bleed when run in FR, and black alpha is much more tamed and with little different bass (little more detailed, and with better slam) !
Today i will try to compare them with my old silver alpha 15''... 
@fine
your speakers are marvelous, and one of the reason i bought another pair of 15''   :thumb:
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2008, 02:45 pm by chakija »

gainphile2

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #101 on: 29 Dec 2008, 12:01 am »
Indeed those are really nice pair of speakers. Perhaps you could share us a how-to finishing  aa.

Yesterday I crossed the alphas at 1kHz with 24db active XO while keeping the notch (it's not steep enough to get rid of the peak). It sounds much cleaner than running it full range. The disadvantage is now I need 2 amps (which I had anyway).

ecir38

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #102 on: 29 Dec 2008, 02:16 am »
fine, do you have a link to the spikes on those speakers?

BR

fine

Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #103 on: 30 Dec 2008, 10:21 am »
Thank you if you like it :)
The spikes was made on CNC from stainless steel.Each ob have below footprint a ceramic square (500mm x 500mm) and 15mm thick print support with 3mm absorber material below to not scratch the floor.
The front baffle is from 45mm MDF + oak veneer + more than 16 coats of lacquer hand maded.
After that ... some serious work with 2000 granulation of sand paper & cold water + car polish (very fine one) and some teflon oil to make that shine look.All of the work-hand maded,manually.
The crossover for Supravox is on 250hz passive (single cap) and for Alpha's is active one.I also experimented with supertweeter Fostex T925A alnico motor on the top.The integration was wery good but not an "must be".Today I don't need any kind of supertweeter extension.Supravox do that job very good indeed.
The detail on Supra is amaizing and not need aditional components to mud the sound.
The amplifier for Alpha's is also DIY with lateral mosfets and for Supra DIY tube monoblocks.
The entire system is fire up with DIY preamp.
I will try passive cross. to woofers....12-15H coil to see what is happening.Any suggestions?
Check my gallery:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1671
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1673
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1627


I have experimented a few days ago with Paudio BM8CXA (8" coaxial) and with 3 tweeters:
Selenium 220TI
Selenium 2500TI
BMD 450S
The passive cross on them was on 1,1khz IV and I order on 6khz.
Also I tryed I order on 8" woofer.
The results don't satisfy me.The sound is very mud,lack of details and overall was far away from Supravox.
Another experiment these days was replacing the Supra with Altec 811 horn + 806 driver.The cuttoff was on aprox. 800-900hz...original crossover.
The maximum sensitivity on Altec is about the same with Supravox...96-97db.
The details on Altec was a little soft and silky and a few steps back, somewhere close to the wall.
The feeling on Supravox was "right in my face" the vocalist was "here..here with me".Allmost I touch the instruments.Microdetails was there.
The single "weak link" on the Supravox was when I go up the volume.. ...aprox. 45W ...(on 96db spl)...the sound became ugly agglomerate,harsh and unpleasant....but on 30W is amaizing.
 96db and 30W is more than enough for most "normal" people.
On jazz or classic music the instruments on Altec horns was something on the back seats comparing with Supra on the baffle but very easy listening on higher volume.
I change 806 with Selenium 220TI,2500Ti-neodimium and BMD450-S ferofluid from PAudio.
The 2500 is a little dark,220TI something dull and 450 in between...
All these drivers have the mark -"metal inside"- was not my cup of tea ,something still missing comparing with Supravox.I don't tryed the drivers on other horns.
Comparing face to face,the ob's side by side that was my impression.I know the conclusion maybe was too early and probabily have some phase problems but I couldn't make them sound coherent.

Have a nice night between the 2008-2009. :thumb:
« Last Edit: 30 Dec 2008, 12:52 pm by fine »

BrassEar

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #104 on: 8 Jan 2009, 10:49 pm »
Yesterday I crossed the alphas at 1kHz with 24db active XO while keeping the notch (it's not steep enough to get rid of the peak). It sounds much cleaner than running it full range.

After damping the Alpha baskets and the rear of the DDS WGs with FATMAT, I am now using a borrowed Behringer CX3400 but with a twist. Low passing the Alphas at 930 Hz, LR 4th order with a gap until I roll in the DE250/WG around 1.2K Hz. This cleans up the mids and the Alpha in general and I don't really hear the dip. I would need a larger WG to take this combo down to 930 or so to match the Alpha. The reason for the CX3400 is that it includes a CD horn EQ switch that boosts the 4KHz and up range for typical horn response. I like it.  I am using multiple small subs so I don't need to EQ the Alphas ala Emerald Physics.

Going from passive to active xover is a tradeoff in texture. I wish I could just throw a switch and go from active to passive as they both have their merits.

gainphile2

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #105 on: 9 Jan 2009, 04:01 am »
BrassEar,

Why not using the DCX2496? They can equalize the horn as well can't they?

BrassEar

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #106 on: 9 Jan 2009, 05:46 pm »
Why not using the DCX2496? They can equalize the horn as well can't they?

I still have it but I could never get rid of some noise problems with the unit. Maybe I need to research how to properly set the gains. I think I will eventually give up on passive as you do need a certain amount of eq for these drivers.

zapper7

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #107 on: 14 Feb 2009, 04:32 pm »
Brassear,
On the foam plug, I take the foam and layer it (like a laminate glu-lam beam) from 1/2 inch away from the throat of the WG to how far from the mouth of the WG?
I try to shape it wexactly like the WG, and use a small amount of spray adhesive to secure it to the WG when finished, right?
I assume you should not compress the foam by pressing it into the WG, right?
Sorry for all the questions, but I agree with you on the hardness or shoutiness of the speaker.
Thanks   Z

Victor

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #108 on: 15 Feb 2009, 08:21 am »
I am getting verry happy with the results of the CS 2 clone using this setup
http://freerider.dyndns.org/anlage/LeCleach.htm.
The crossover for the Alpha's is lowered and the corssover for the DT 220/waveguide is higher.
Using it with the DCX 2496 is very simple and easy to compare to the original 48 db settings
No noise problems for me, using just a potentiometer after the output of the DCX.
 

dmiller

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #109 on: 15 Mar 2009, 12:19 am »
Why not using the DCX2496? They can equalize the horn as well can't they?

I still have it but I could never get rid of some noise problems with the unit. Maybe I need to research how to properly set the gains. I think I will eventually give up on passive as you do need a certain amount of eq for these drivers.

Generally noise comes from running the input too low. Gain should be 0 and level should be as high as possible without clipping. The DCX only works really well with volume being done after the digital stage. In a pro setup volume wouldn't be controlled before the unit.

How are the clone projects going? I'm about to start a cs2 clone test with horns I have that can be crossed at 800hz.  I'm thinking about 12" woofers with boxed subs crossed at 50hz. Any suggestions?

Ric Schultz

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #110 on: 11 Jun 2009, 09:33 am »
I have added a page on my website discussing mods and or building your own Emerald Physics 2 type of speaker with more info to come.  I have done almost everything discussed there so speak with direct knowledge.  Very cool, very cheap for what you get.  http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Modding_the_Emerald_Physics_spe.html  Have fun.
« Last Edit: 24 Jul 2009, 08:09 pm by Ric Schultz »

scorpion

Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #111 on: 21 Jul 2009, 05:06 pm »
Thank's a lot Ric for your write up. Extremly useful. Hope that you can manage photos soon. I'm in the process to test this setup as a follow up to my MJAO baffles. (Perhaps a bit contrary to jkelly).  However it is awfully expensive, if you don't live in some 'right' contry in, Europe to get parts from Parts-Express, however small their weight so I have to live with the brass threaded part of the Dayton horns. Though I had a success of getting cheap Vifa D27TGs and also B&C 250s. I also think I have located a supplier of 30 PPI foam to test with the waveguide (aquarium supplier, everything should be tested). With regard to your suggestions I find no other difficulty as I alreday have the DCX2496. You don't expliciltly mention but in the back of the Alpha15s there is a large metal surface round the spider that also has to covered by felt.

/Erling

Ric Schultz

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #112 on: 21 Jul 2009, 05:50 pm »
Erling,
Funny, was just going to post in your thread.  What I wanted to add is that it is seriously important to time align the drivers.  In your MJAO speaker all the drive units are mounted on the front of the baffle.  This will result in the treble hitting your ears first, then the midrange and finally the woof....not good.  Usually the best sound is for the higher frequency driver to be slightly behind lining up their voice coils.....anotherwords....first line up the voice coils and then move the mid or tweeter back a little more.  You could make a test pair of baffles with a shelf on top of the woofs and also mount the midrange and tweeter on their own baffles (felted, of course) and then space them back on top till you get it right...it is obvious....Using naturally recorded music in space that is full range it will be super easy to hear when the midrange is right to the woof and when the tweet is right on too.  Then you can make your finished baffles with the midrange mounted from the rear through a large waveguide and also do the same with the tweet.  You would want to felt around the mid and high drivers as well.  You could also use very small baffles for the mid and highs since they are not doing anything below 300hz anyway.  The sound will be much improved and if you try this then you can tell us what the set back distances are.  I think your basic speaker is incredible and will be talking about it on my website as I think it may be the best bang for the buck in an open baffle single amp speaker. 

I will have some photos later this week from someone who just built the CS2 clones with the Vifa and just felted the whole inside of the waveguide with good effect.

The parts express waveguides are cheap.....you really need to cut off the threaded part or you are really never going to get good sound. 

One of my buddies thought that felting too much on the inside of the struts, etc. of the woofers actually closed down the sound too much.  I am sure this is a system thing.  Yes, I would felt all I could and then remove some, if necessary.

I will try to add the pics this week.  I will then add info about your speaker, my own box speaker and using the VMPS midrange planar panel.  My own box speaker is a $45 woof with no xover and the Vifa with just a cap and resistor on its own baffle on top of the speaker and time aligned, felted, damped and hardwired.  Overall better than my highly modified Gallo 3.1s that I used to have. Can be built for $300.....a super monitor!

Enjoy,
Ric

Telstar

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #113 on: 21 Jul 2009, 09:50 pm »
Very nice ideas, Ric. I'm looking for the pictures, cuz English is not my first language and some technical names are hard to understand for me.

Feel free to provide "felting advice" to my Hempatics build if you wish :)

scorpion

Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #114 on: 21 Jul 2009, 10:03 pm »
Ric,

Before going into too much discussion. Is this a thing incorporated into the DCX programme of EP CS2 and earlier models ?

/Erling

JDUBS

Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #115 on: 21 Jul 2009, 11:47 pm »
I will then add info about your speaker, my own box speaker and using the VMPS midrange planar panel.  My own box speaker is a $45 woof with no xover and the Vifa with just a cap and resistor on its own baffle on top of the speaker and time aligned, felted, damped and hardwired.  Overall better than my highly modified Gallo 3.1s that I used to have. Can be built for $300.....a super monitor!

Enjoy,
Ric

Ric, would really love to hear more details about your monitor!!  Probably best for a separate thread, but sounds very interesting.

Thanks.
Jim

scorpion

Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #116 on: 22 Jul 2009, 01:30 pm »
Ric,

It's sinking in. I will be honored and flattered if you present the MJAO baffle on your web. I suppose you have had the opportunity to hear it somehow.
It's good and not very expensive to build but to judge it betweeen a lot of good OBs is not easy and I certainly appreciate your comments.

Regarding time alignment, interest are now focussing on these smaller points of design in strive for perfection. Rudolf has some interesting threads here with both physical placement of drivers as well as measurments to seek best placement of mid/top baffles in relation to an H-baffle.

It is of course not a MJAO poblem it is a problem that is shared by 99 % of all loudspeakers. But your thoughts and findings make me curious to test.
In fact I already have been thinking in this direction by separating bass and mid/top baffles. Using the Alphas as a base for experiment with various drivers, I have to improve my woodworking but I certainly like the outline you present. And if effects are as pronounced as your argument, it will be an interesting journey and a point of no return.

Thank you for the inspiration !  :)

/Erling

Ric Schultz

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #117 on: 22 Jul 2009, 11:34 pm »
I have added some preliminary pics of a friends clones on my site.  I will try to get him to take some closeups of the tweeter to waveguide mounting and also the felting on the waveguide.  He is using the basic program for the CS2 but he has not redone the eq for this tweet nor time aligned it.  Xover is 48db per octave at 1K.  He is going to have me mod his Behringer and after that, with the eq and time aligning just right, should be in super heaven.  Already, he feels he has the best speaker he has ever had.  He is using Bel Canto Ref 1000s on the bottom and will be getting a Pass F5 clone for the top (currently using a receiver on top).

Today Friday 7-24 I added some more info on baffles, 3 and 4 way possibilities and a crude drawing for a super brace to the website.
« Last Edit: 24 Jul 2009, 07:57 pm by Ric Schultz »

Victor

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #118 on: 8 Sep 2009, 10:00 pm »
I started all over again, with the Alpha 15's and the DT220 + waveguides. Just like the original CS2.

Using the DCX 2296 48db xover at 1k.

With True RTA I first equalized the tweeter. Without eq  they are not flat from 1k; they are rising steep from 1 k to 1k6 and are rather uneven further up their range.

I put my mike at 1 meter in front of the waveguide and eq them as flat as could be done form 1 k to 20k. 

Then I eqd the Alpha's., there where peaks/problems at 420 and 840 hz and 1680 hz.

Then I measured them combined and adjusted the level.

I  delayed the tweeter 5 centimeter.

When this was done I eq'd the complete speaker with True RTA

Finally I fine eq'd them by listening to all sorts of music.

The results are amazing. This is really a great speaker, big sounding, very detailed, involving, dynamic, etc.

It takes a lot of time but it's worth the effort.

System used for the test: Logitech Transporter, Behringer SRC 2496, DEQ2496, DCX 2496, Europower 2500 for the Alpha's and Dared MP5 for the tweeters.

Currently I am just testing the system in a room of 40 sqm, bur I will try the speakers in my much larger livingroom of 1200 sqm next week. Then I will also add my concrete subwoofers , with Kilomax 18's  that are integrated in the floor of my living room, below 50 hz.



earsandeyes

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Re: DIY Emerald Physics CS2 Clones
« Reply #119 on: 9 Sep 2009, 10:15 pm »
Without offence or jealousy:
What kind of living room do you have?: ...in my much larger livingroom of 1200 sqm...

Michiel