AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: rajacat on 27 Jan 2017, 11:12 pm
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I hereby anoint :) this to be the official thread for the Musical Paradise MP-D2 tube DAC.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156918)
I had been looking for a new DAC for the last year or so. Finally it came down to the R2R Holo Spring, or the MP-D2. I've been scouring the forums and haven't found any negative words about the MP-D2 whatsoever and that includes some high end forums where owners of much more expensive DACs have lavished praise. My main concern was that the MP-D2 might sound too "tubey" but from careful reading of the reviews I've concluded that this wasn't an issue. IMO this DAC explores the outer limits of the price to performance ratio.
I took delivery of this behemoth (27 lbs.) about two weeks ago. When I first fired it up, it was very harsh with unbalanced channels but after about 40 hours it gradually smoothed out and gave indications that it was going to satisfy my expectations. I replaced the stock cheap looking 6Z5P Chinese rectifier with an old GE 5R4GB but immediately didn't notice any difference probably due to the ongoing burning in process. This DAC supports both 6.3V and 5V rectifiers with just a flip of a switch.
6.3V series: 6Z5P (stock), 6X5.
5V series: 5R4, 5AR4, 5U4G, 5Y3, GZ34.
I'm still using the stock signal tubes. This DAC is a tube rollers delight. It also supports a variety of the signal tubes with a simple switch.
6.3V series: 6N11 (stock), 6H6, 6H30, E88CC, E188CC，6922, 6DJ8.
12.6V series: 12AU7, 12BH7, E80CC.
So how does it sound? Well after ~200 hours its a very large step above my former DAC (MHDT Constantine). It's dead quite in my rig. The MP-D2 fills the room much more than my reference. The imaging is more precise. The amount of detail resolution is far beyond the Constantine. It does Classical very well with excellent layering and I'm having a lot of fun noticing the different sections of an orchestra having dialogs with each other. Holographic and 3D are words that come to mind when describing this big, bold and colorful DAC. Tone monster too. :eyebrows:
The other night I cued up one of my favorite live albums.
"https://www.amazon.com/Alison-Krauss-Union-Station-Live/dp/B00006LLLN/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1484248115&sr=1-5&keywords=alison+krauss" target="_bl and it almost brought tears to my eyes. A truly great live recording and the D2 did it justice. This DAC has a lot air and gives you a nice sense of the venue. When she pushed her pristine soprano long and high the MP-D2 followed her with ease. All the other players were spread out clearly on the soundstage. The proverbial Veil of Maya has been lifted another notch. I'm really looking forward to rolling in some quality NOS tubes.
BTW cap rolling is easy too. It came with Obbligato Golds which are a quality cap but I'm sure I'll want to roll some others in too.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156962)
Quality construction. Notice the separate shielded aluminum box below the main board which encloses the beefy
150W toroidal transformer for the analog section and an additional 80W toroidal transformer for the digital sections.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156963)
I hope that this thread encourages others whom are in the market for a DAC in the 1K range to give the MP-D2 a look. I know of two other Audio Circle members who have taken the plunge and are happy with their purchase.http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=80
I also would be pleased if this thread would function as a platform for a tube/cap rolling discussion.
...Roy
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I know this is a (very) subjective question, but looking at their web site there's a nearly limitless combination of tube/cap/other options combinations. Can anyone comment on and/or recommend options that would hit a real sweet spot w.r.t. price/performance? In other words, which of all these myriad of options *REALLY* makes a large performance difference?
Thanks, -dB
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i'm not running balanced so mine has the 5u4g (they sent a 5r4gya) rectifier upgrade $48, the 2 siemen e88cc tubes $110, and the 2 mcap gold silver oil caps $205.
and it will bring tears to your eyes.
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i'm not running balanced so mine has the 5u4g (they sent a 5r4gya) rectifier upgrade $48, the 2 siemen e88cc tubes $110, and the 2 mcap gold silver oil caps $205.
and it will bring tears to your eyes.
What he said!
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dburna
Before you decide on the upgrade path you need to determine if you are going to run the MP-D2 SE or Balanced. If your system already has high gain and especially if it is tubed the 6v output running balanced may cause you problems. Unless you just don't want to do any of the upgrading yourself I would buy it stock and try it first. If it like mine and several others, it ships with the 6H6 tubes instead of the Chinese 6N11's you may find that you are happy as is. You can certainly buy the tubes he offers for less, especially the rectifiers. The caps can be bought from Jeff at Sonic Craft for a few dollars less and the Siemen's tubes while good may not be what you like. I owned a quad so I have tried them and they are in fact very good, but found others that I liked just as well like the Reflektor 6n23 and the Tungsram PCC88. Just my 2 cents , but I wanted to experiment with the tubes first before changing Caps.
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the reason i went with the cao upgrade is i put the same caps in my dehavilland preamp.
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I'll get around to ordering a pair fairly soon. Just wanted to change one variable at a time and have both options at hand.
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I posted this last Sunday 1/22 over on the HeadFi Forum:
Gents,
Due to this thread and a mention of the MP D2 on another forum I purchased a stock unit from Gary. It arrived on 1/17/17 and went straight into my system. I had been looking for a dac and like a few of you was considering a Gustard, but the flexibility and custom options steered me to the MP D2.
It sounded ok right out of the box but now with about 125 hours on it the SQ has greatly improved. I replaced the stock rectifier with a Philips 5R4GYS I had lying around and ordered a pair of iFi NOS 6922 tubes which showed up yesterday. Wow! what an improvement over the stock tubes! The sound stage exploded deeper and wider and imaging is off the charts. Tonality is good but not great yet since I still have the stock Obbligato caps in place. I hope to order some caps soon, but for now I'm thoroughly enjoying what I'm hearing. I also replaced the stock power cord with an Aural Thrills Active cord and the improvement was very noticeable. Blacker and quieter background.
I'm using a highly modified 47 Labs Flatfish Transport to the coax input on the D2 and the fixed RCA outs. My preamp is a 4P1L DHT unit designed and built by Radu Tarta of Simple Pleasures. Amps are Audio Space AS-6M 300b SET and speakers are Charney Audio Maestro 100db rear loaded horns designed on the Tractrix Theory. All cabling is Jenna labs.
All things considered the D2 is a great well thought out piece of gear that sounds fantastic! There are few, if any, equipment builders who design their gear to be so easily customized by the end user. At a different time I had owned a very well made Audio Note Kits 2.1b that was modded to the hilt with BG caps and AN Silver Coupling caps. I had to sell it for financial reasons (thank you Wall Street and your greedy illegal mortgage mess) and still kick myself for it! Not any more! A tricked out D2 with the right tubes and caps knocks hard on that door!
Since this post I installed the recommended Mundorf 2.2uf Supreme Silver Gold Oil Coupling caps. So far so good with them and will run them in for a couple of hundred hours till they settle. The D2 is a very special piece of audio gear and at the full XLR tube and cap upgrade few if any dacs can touch it at many times its price.
I like to be engaged, cerebral and emotional, when I listen to music. Feeling every nuance from a vocal, the crowd noises, interplay between musicians, and dynamic inflections by the artist are where its at for me. The MP-D2 will give you that in spades. Songs that were OK are now special and songs that are great...well you get the idea.
Chris
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This looks like a nice dac. How is the volume control? Any chance the volume control could be switched to a remote unit? From what I read, the output appears to be quite high? I like lots of control with the volume.
Thanks in advance!
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This looks like a nice dac. How is the volume control? Any chance the volume control could be switched to a remote unit? From what I read, the output appears to be quite high? I like lots of control with the volume.
Thanks in advance!
Can't give you an opinion about the volume control as I use a passive pre. Others have said that it's OK but most use their preamps.
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I've found one design flaw. I was going to try my RCA 5R4GY rectifier but it's of the large coke bottle type and it won't fit through the hole in the cover. :( Does anybody know if the Philips 5R4GY will fit? It's too bad that the hole is so small. This eliminates quite a few of the better rectifiers without major surgery to the cover. Sure, you could drill a larger hole but the elegant aluminum finish ring would have to be scrapped.
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i think you can get what's called a socket saver that might raise the height of the tube enough to get the fat part of the tube above the opening.
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Does anybody know if the Philips 5R4GY will fit?
No, The top wont fit with the Phillips...running mine topless :o
This looks like a nice dac. How is the volume control? Any chance the volume control could be switched to a remote unit? From what I read, the output appears to be quite high? I like lots of control with the volume.
Thanks in advance!
I tried the preamp out but preferred the fixed out with my preamp. There looks to be enough room for a remote volume control, I would guess it depends on the one you decide to use.
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Within reason all of the "coke bottle" rectifiers in that group are the same dimensions. I've passed on several good deals on them in favor of their straight sided versions due to the hole's dimensions. I'm trying a 5AS4A now and really like it. Andy at VTS calls it the "super" 5U4G. There are a pretty good selection of 8 pin socket savers out there at a variety of prices.
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I'll order some of those socket savers.
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Let us know if it raises them enough. If you e-mail Garry at MP he may know.
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Gents,
Any idea on the run in time for the Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Oil coupling caps?
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250 hours
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Thanks Tyson :)
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I've been burning in a pair of 1971 NOS Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes over the last couple of days. OMG where was my bass?! What have I been missing?! The stock 6U6 were OK but these tubes have cojones. :green: I've got to adjust the level on a couple of my subs. The whole soundstage has expanded and these have a nice organic texture. It took awhile for the highs to reach their natural level and they're still breaking in (~ 30 hours) but I'm already happy.
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:thumb:
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In stock form...would this dac be considered organic and analog sounding? Thanks.
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In stock form...would this dac be considered organic and analog sounding? Thanks.
Yes IMO it has an analog presentation but it depends on how you define analog/organic. Changing out the stock tubes for quality NOS tubes take it to another level IMO. Of course, this is to be expected; the higher quality the parts, the better any DAC will sound. If you're interested in some more opinions/reviews here are some links.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802557/musical-paradise-m2-d2-ak4490-balanced-dac-reviews
http://www.audioshark.org/computer-digital-audio-11/first-new-toy-2017-musical-paradise-mp-d2-11092.html
I started this thread to introduce AC members to this amazing DAC offered at a great price point. Some go into fits of rapture over a 1K power cord whereas I would contrast this great 27 lb. DAC on how much more you can get for your hard earned money.
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@rajacat,
I am interested in this DAC as well. earlier in your first post you were also considering the Holo Spring dac. Could you elaborate what made you choose the MP-D2 over the Holo ? Understand that the Holo cost much more in the stock form but does the MP-D2 sounds better than the Holo with all the upgrades ? Has anybody compared the Holo to the MP-D2 ?
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@rajacat,
I am interested in this DAC as well. earlier in your first post you were also considering the Holo Spring dac. Could you elaborate what made you choose the MP-D2 over the Holo ? Understand that the Holo cost much more in the stock form but does the MP-D2 sounds better than the Holo with all the upgrades ? Has anybody compared the Holo to the MP-D2 ?
I originally set a 1K price ceiling when I starting shopping for DACs about a year ago. I then became enamored with R2R dacs but most of them were very pricey except for the Mhdt dacs and the Schitt units which don't do DSD. I then glommed onto the Holo after reading ted b's review in the Computer Audiophile and after a lot of thought placed an order for the Level 2 version despite it being way over my price ceiling. After waiting more than a month with no set delivery date, I canceled my order and started looking elsewhere.
I then discovered the MP D2. I noticed that this particular dac had inspired a passionate following. I then found the Audioshark forum and noted that many of whom have purchased the D2 have very high end systems and could afford almost any DAC.
So I read all the discussions i could find and didn't discover even one bad review. So since this DAC fell under my price ceiling, i took the plunge. I like that you can tailor the sound a bit with tubes and cap changes. Most dacs have a house sound which I imagine corresponds to the designer's personal preferences. Well... all ears are different and all listening environments are different too. IMO designers that think they can offer a dac with the one true sound are mistaken. I like tubes because, like tyson mentioned in another thread, they help to restore the second order harmonic information that's sometimes destroyed earlier in the reproduction process. You could say rolling tubes is akin to sampling fine cigars or scotch. :)
I'll have to admit that tube rolling can become expensive fast, so that's something to consider with this DAC. However, once you find what you want, no need to keep buying, as tubes in this DAC should last a long time.
I still follow the Holo Spring discussion but I'm happy with my purchase. I don't know of anyone who has directly compared the Holo to the D2.
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I've been eyeing this and the Gustard. My current dac is Ciunas. Any idea how far behind this dac is to the MP and Gustard?
I feel the Ciunas lacks a sense of drive. Perhaps it's because I am not using an active preamp.
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Interesting design. I wonder what the design center is since it is supporting numerous different types of tubes that have different optimum plate voltages, and bias. I wonder if it's a cathode follower output stage. I wonder if the output capacitor is tweakable because what appears to be binding posts that hold the leads of the capacitor.
Looks like a whole lot of fun!
Best,
Anand.
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Interesting design. I wonder what the design center is since it is supporting numerous different types of tubes that have different optimum plate voltages, and bias. I wonder if it's a cathode follower output stage. I wonder if the output capacitor is tweakable because what appears to be binding posts that hold the leads of the capacitor.
Looks like a whole lot of fun!
Best,
Anand.
Arnand,
Yes, the small binding posts are to make cap changes easy. I'm rolling in a pair of Mundorf S/O soon. I already did a bypass of the gold Obligatos with some T3 Russian teflons. Added a little resolution and extension to the high end. :D
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Let us know if it raises them enough. If you e-mail Garry at MP he may know.
Yes, a socket saver easily raises this big bulb RCA 5R4 high enough to clear the cover.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157819)
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New rectifier for my MP-D2. :) The Mighty USAF 596. I like the Dr. Frankenstein's lab look of this toob. Coke bottle thick glass built to withstand nuclear blast. Much larger than my RCA 5AR4. I'm really having fun rolling tubes in this DAC! I'm surprised it hasn't garnered more interest here. For the $'s its hard to beat. Competes on even footing with much more expensive units especially with tube upgrade. Poor man's Lampizator 1K! I'd like to A/B it. 8) 27 lbs. of pleasure.
This DAC is a modders delight. Large case with plenty of room to work. One of the very experienced modders here should get one these. I believe the potential of the MP-D2 is very high. Sounds high end with no mods.
Very high resolution with analog flavor. Will do native DSD if you want.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158326)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158327)
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rajacat,
I reread this thread only to realize I haven't posted yet - easily rectified.
I read about this DAC first in another forum (head-fi? computeraudio?) and I got pretty excited about it. This thread only adds to that excitement.
If I hadn't upgraded to the Gustard X20u just 11 months ago, I would have already bought this unit (and likely would have asked aldcol to burn it in for me - poor guy). Then, I would have had another foam cocoon-in-a-suitcase made in order to bring it to Taiwan (where I am right now) without getting blasted by the ridiculous import duties. The things I must do for my addiction....er...hobby.
I'm afraid I'm just going to have to suffer a while longer with my Gustard until someone offers to take it off my hands. It's still stock and it sounds terrific in my system.
What's wrong with me? If this were a car, I'd hang onto it for 10 years without batting an eye. Yet, here I am with an eleven-month old DAC and I'm fantasizing about the MP-D2 DAC! :nono:
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Michael
Would the import duty situation be different with the unit shipping from China as opposed to Canada. And I really like my MP too.
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Hi, JackD.
It doesn't matter where it's coming from. So long as it's audiophile level, it's taxed at 21% and they keep records of who brings in what just in case someone gets the clever idea of importing goods for resale without a license. Customs did a good enough job of making me feel uncomfortable with their questions regarding the Fritz speakers I had shipped over that I want to avoid going that route if at all possible.
There are a couple different floorstanding speakers that I crave (Daedalus, Salk), but bringing them across the Pacific Pond would incur two to three thousand dollars in shipping and another three-plus thousand in import duties with QUESTIONS! It makes monitors packed in closed cell foam cocoons very attractive. Heck, I just brought my Don Sachs Model 2 preamp over and it sounds wonderful. As far as Don knows, it's the only one in Taiwan - for now. 8)
Michael
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So instead of being a tax to protect domestic production it is just a "guilty pleasures" tax?
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Yes, a socket saver easily raises this big bulb RCA 5R4 high enough to clear the cover.
rajacat where did you get the socket saver? Link?
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Deleted to avoid hijacking the thread.
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This is incorrect statement! I currently have two MP-D2s on hand in Taipei office. One shipped directly from China and the other brought in as a checked luggage from LA. In fact, the checked MP-D2 also came in with my much bigger unopened Microsoft Surface Studio. No tax whatsoever nor did I make any false statement in the custom.
The MP-D2 is a nice DAC for it's price that I strongly recommend you buy from China. The courier used by manufacturer will get your MP-D2 at your door anywhere in Taiwan without any charge.
Hi, JackD.
It doesn't matter where it's coming from. So long as it's audiophile level, it's taxed at 21% and they keep records of who brings in what just in case someone gets the clever idea of importing goods for resale without a license. Customs did a good enough job of making me feel uncomfortable with their questions regarding the Fritz speakers I had shipped over that I want to avoid going that route if at all possible.
There are a couple different floorstanding speakers that I crave (Daedalus, Salk), but bringing them across the Pacific Pond would incur two to three thousand dollars in shipping and another three-plus thousand in import duties with QUESTIONS! It makes monitors packed in closed cell foam cocoons very attractive. Heck, I just brought my Don Sachs Model 2 preamp over and it sounds wonderful. As far as Don knows, it's the only one in Taiwan - for now. 8)
Michael
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This is incorrect statement! I currently have two MP-D2s on hand in Taipei office. One shipped directly from China and the other brought in as a checked luggage from LA. In fact, the checked MP-D2 also came in with my much bigger unopened Microsoft Surface Studio. No tax whatsoever nor did I make any false statement in the custom.
The MP-D2 is a nice DAC for it's price that I strongly recommend you buy from China. The courier used by manufacturer will get your MP-D2 at your door anywhere in Taiwan without any charge.
Hi, Daniel.
This no import duty on audiophile goods coming from China is news to me, but I thank you for this news. I will look into it. As for bringing items in as checked luggage, you'll see that I did just that in my previous post, and that I did not suffer the import duty. :)
如何避免進口稅呢？
Regards,
Michael
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So I stumbled across this thread while seeking opinions on USB cables and after doing only a cursory bit of research I am seriously intrigued. Has anyone used it as a preamp/DAC combo? I kinda wish it had a headphone output but that's certainly not a deal killer.
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I tried it as a dac-pre and preferred the fixed out to my preamp. The preamp on the dac is for RCA only. If you run balanced you will need a preamp or integrated amp.
Chris
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Thanks, Chris, that is one thing I needed to know as I'm running all balanced on my main rig and can run balanced on my office rig as well.
The MP website offers a few output cap options, are all four of the coupling caps 2.2 µF? They look to be the same but wanted to make sure.
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Yes all the coupling caps are 2.2uf and all the tubes must be the same voltage to run in balanced mode.
Chris
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Again, thank you.
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rajacat where did you get the socket saver? Link?
I can't find the link to the particular socket saver I bought. Just go on to ebay and search for 8 pin ones. Here's a link to one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-pin-noval-tube-socket-saver-for-6L6-6V6-6SN7-EL34-/160460115202?hash=item255c2b0d02:m:m52A3vSkPkKnw4Y6Kxrkqyg
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Thank you rajacat! :D
Chris
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Can you gents comment on the sonic attributes from rolling the rectifier tubes, please? I'm familiar with the results of rolling signal tubes.
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Can you gents comment on the sonic attributes from rolling the rectifier tubes, please? I'm familiar with the results of rolling signal tubes.
Here's a huge thread on HeadFi with comparisons/reviews of 5AR4/5R4/5U4G rectifiers.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread
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Umm...that thread is about Woo Audio headphone amps. I want to know what sonic effects rectifier tubes have on the MP-D2.
I have a few NOS and OS rectifier tubes so I will have to figure it out myself. I do appreciate the tips about socker savers and adapters raising some fat bottles up high enough so they can be used with the top still in place, thanks. :thumb:
My MP-D2 will hopefully be here just before the end of the month.
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Howdy all. I just got one of these and am using it with Roon/HQPlayer NAA/SMS-200 or MRendu and am getting a pop at the beginning of every song - I'm upsampling everything to DSD256. If I just use Roon to upsample to DSD256 no pops. Is any one else that has the MP-D2 experiencing this? Any suggestions?
Thanks
Tony
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Howdy all. I just got one of these and am using it with Roon/HQPlayer NAA/SMS-200 or MRendu and am getting a pop at the beginning of every song - I'm upsampling everything to DSD256. If I just use Roon to upsample to DSD256 no pops. Is any one else that has the MP-D2 experiencing this? Any suggestions?
Thanks
Tony
This is a problem that has been discussed over on Computer Audiophile. It's not unique to the MP-D2. These pops occur on most DACs using the Roon/HQ combo. This was an issue with the Holo Spring too and discussed on that thread. There may a work around now but I've not been following the discussion recently so I can't give you any guidance.
..Roy
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This is a problem that has been discussed over on Computer Audiophile. It's not unique to the MP-D2. These pops occur on most DACs using the Roon/HQ combo. This was an issue with the Holo Spring too and discussed on that thread. There may a work around now but I've not been following the discussion recently so I can't give you any guidance.
..Roy
Thanks Roy. Yes, I've seen the thread on CA. My Directstream doesn't have this problem fortunately ;)
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I HAVE CHANGED THE THREAD TITLE TO NOT USE ALL CAPS!!! HOPE THAT IS OK>>>>>>!!!!!!!
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I HAVE CHANGED THE THREAD TITLE TO NOT USE ALL CAPS!!! HOPE THAT IS OK>>>>>>!!!!!!!
No need to SHOUT about it... :P
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indeed :weights:
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double post
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I HAVE CHANGED THE THREAD TITLE TO NOT USE ALL CAPS!!! HOPE THAT IS OK>>>>>>!!!!!!!
[/quotine
Fine with me. No big deal. I just pasted it from somewhere else in its caps iteration. Sorry to upset you.
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LOL
I'M NOT UPSET. BUT PLEASE DON'T DO THAT@@@@!!! !!!!!
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:rotflmao:
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Howdy all. I just got one of these and am using it with Roon/HQPlayer NAA/SMS-200 or MRendu and am getting a pop at the beginning of every song - I'm upsampling everything to DSD256. If I just use Roon to upsample to DSD256 no pops. Is any one else that has the MP-D2 experiencing this? Any suggestions?
Thanks
Tony
Ask joeinid over on audioshark. He has used DSD on the MP-D2 and hasn't mentioned having trouble with pops.
http://www.audioshark.org/computer-digital-audio-11/first-new-toy-2017-musical-paradise-mp-d2-11092-page18.html
..Roy
d
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Howdy all. I just got one of these and am using it with Roon/HQPlayer NAA/SMS-200 or MRendu and am getting a pop at the beginning of every song - I'm upsampling everything to DSD256. If I just use Roon to upsample to DSD256 no pops. Is any one else that has the MP-D2 experiencing this? Any suggestions?
Thanks
Tony
Here's another MP-2 owner who's using HQPlayer successfully with no pops. It's the most recent post. Perhaps the problem is with ROON's software.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802557/musical-paradise-m2-d2-ak4490-balanced-dac-reviews/90#post_13407668
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I'm currently using JRiver with the MP-D2 and haven't tackled DSD yet; I'm not sure if my computer can handle the load. I just received the SOtM sMS-200 and a 2 month ROON license so I'll eventually give HQplayer/ROON DSD a try if its not too nerdy for me. I don't want to get too bogged down in technical issues. I prefer as plug and play as possible with more time listening to music and other things in my life.
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Thanks Roy. I think the problem is due to the Unix OS used in both the Microrendu and SMS-200. They both do it when used as an NAA feeding this DAC. Hopefully the OS will get patched eventually. The DAC is really sounding nice. I'm using the Brimar CV4033 and a Mullard Gz34.
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Thanks Roy. I think the problem is due to the Unix OS used in both the Microrendu and SMS-200. They both do it when used as an NAA feeding this DAC. Hopefully the OS will get patched eventually. The DAC is really sounding nice. I'm using the Brimar CV4033 and a Mullard Gz34.
Ah that's too bad. I just got my sms200. :duh:
I wonder if the play silence at startup for hardware syncronization option in JRiver would have any effect on the pops.
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Ah that's too bad. I just got my sms200. :duh:
I wonder if the play silence at startup for hardware syncronization option in JRiver would have any effect on the pops. HQPlayer is the problem for me.
Hi Roy, are you using HQPlayer/NAA? If not you shouldn't have any pops. I don't with Roon and didn't with JRiver either when I tried it with the MRendu.
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Roy, the new SMS-200 firmware fixed the pop. Yahoo!
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Roy, the new SMS-200 firmware fixed the pop. Yahoo!
Awright. :thumb:
I'm fiddling with my SMS-200 now. I did get it working on JRiver and now loading my library on to SqueezeLite. Next I'll try ROON and then I'll try ROON/ HQPlayer. I wonder if my unit came with the firmware fix installed. :scratch: My i5 6200U 2.3Ghz laptop might be able to cope with some of the lower dsd rates.
Intially, i wasn't impressed with the SQ. I'm sure that some burn in will improve that.
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This dac looks very interesting, I'm sure for people that like to tube roll and tweak gear this is a great discovery. One thing that bothered me reading over at Headfi is there was almost no comparisons between different dacs and I had to go to their website to get any technical information. How can you get a good feel how something sounds with no comparisons to dacs that people have already heard?
As a comparison, the Denafrips Ares model thread also on Headfi has many many comparisons to really good dacs, good dacs and a very few in the same price range. There is also a lot of discussion on the technical aspects of the dac as well. I have not read any comparisons to this dac thou so we will have to wait and see.
It sounds like everyone who has purchased this dac is happy and that is a great thing! I can't believe how many new dacs are coming out at such great price points.
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I've been itching for a new DAC and this looks very interesting. My system goes single ended or XLR. Have only dabbled with tubes (my experience with them is lackluster to bad), so this would be another leap of faith. Experimented once with caps with very positive results.
Have been looking at Schiit. Obviously they do R2R DACs and now offer 6SN7 based tube preamps, all at good prices. I like keeping all the tube variables in one piece and one tube type, the upgradability of the DAC, and buying American.
Question #1: Can/how could the MP-D2 be configured to provide a good dollop of tube palpability (body/lushness, not warmth)?
Question #2: Conversely can/how could the MP-D2 be configured to be as uncolored (no tube palpability) as possible?
Question #3: In keeping with the attractive price, what solid state balanced preamp (with remote) would you recommend?
TIA
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New rectifier for my MP-D2. :) The Mighty USAF 596. I like the Dr. Frankenstein's lab look of this toob. Coke bottle thick glass built to withstand nuclear blast. Much larger than my RCA 5AR4. I'm really having fun rolling tubes in this DAC! Sounds high end with no mods.
Very high resolution with analog flavor. Will do native DSD if you want.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158326)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158327)
Hi Rajacat! Can you tell me if you compared the USAF 596 to the Bendix 6106 in the MP-D2? So far I've preferred the Bendix over the others I've tried, but would like to know your opinion on these two rectifier tubes in the MP-D2.
TIA.
I'm listening to: Just This Side of Heaven by Andrew Jepson
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society -- Full-range/Wide-range Drivers -- Front & Back-Loaded Horns -- High Sensitivity Speakers
System: Mastersound Reference 845 SET, integrated amp, YBA Genesis CD-4 used as a transport, Musical Paradise MP-D2 DAC, Beauhorn Virtuoso w/Lowther DX4 drivers.
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Hi tubeguy,
I haven't tried the Bendix 6106. The only rectifiers I've used have been the stock tube, RCA 5ar4 and the 596.
...Roy
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tubeguy,
Checkout this monster thread on 5AR4 and similar rectifiers.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/.
Scroll down this page for aneep's survey of a number of rectifiers that he's tried with his MP-D2.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/musical-paradise-m2-d2-ak4490-balanced-dac-reviews.802557/page-7
...Roy
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Hey, guys.
Did all you M2-D2 owners suddenly fall into musical nirvana and stop feeling the urge to post about your experiences/impressions with this DAC? C'mon already. Gimme something to read, please! :)
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Michael
I am still using mine everyday while a unit costing three times as much sits on the sidelines and the Aqua La Voce is a great DAC in it's own right. Won't fit in your suitcase though like the IDA-8. :)
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Michael
I am still using mine everyday while a unit costing three times as much sits on the sidelines and the Aqua La Voce is a great DAC in it's own right.
This is an impressive feat IMO.
Won't fit in your suitcase though like the IDA-8. :)
Hi, Jack.
With these dimensions and weight:
Dimensions
W 34.5cm x D 38cm x H 15cm (13.58" x 14.96" x 5.9")
Gross Weight
12.5 kg (27.5 lbs)
It will fit very comfortably inside my carry-on polycarbonate suitcase encased in a 2" thick closed cell foam cocoon. Both my Gustard DAC and my D Sachs preamp were transported in this suitcase. I think, however, that I may forego buying a new DAC this year because I really want to get a new amp for my system in Taiwan. There's no rush to decide as I won't fly back till late October or November.
BTW, that suggestion to buy a briefcase (Oops! laptop tote) in that other thread is an amazing idea I hadn't considered before. Thumbs up for 'pure genius'! :thumb:
Michael
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Michael
The laptop tote makes the 16 just as portable as the 8 so no reason not to trade up. As to the DAC's the Gustard and the MP are both over achievers and one is not "better" than the other just different flavors. If you decide to move to the IDA-16 you will get the basics of the DAC-10 so again just another flavor albeit a better flavor than the one in the IDA-8.
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Hey, guys.
Did all you M2-D2 owners suddenly fall into musical nirvana and stop feeling the urge to post about your experiences/impressions with this DAC? C'mon already. Gimme something to read, please! :)
I'm still here :D. Still have the MP-D2 and enjoying my tube rolling adventures.
Recently, I rolled in a pair of platinum/cryoed Matsushita 7DJ8's. They replaced the platinum/cryoed EH 6H30Pi's. The Matsu's are more balanced with less emphasize on the ends of the sound spectrum. They come across as juicier and thicker but are equally detailed. I'm very happy with them. Only about 30 hours on them so I'll hear if they improve more with age but I like them and may order a backup pair. Actually, they sounded very nice after just a few hours of burn-in. Liquid and buttery would describe their SQ. They seem to occupy the midpoint between the 6H30pi's and the Amperex Orange globes in flavor. One concern with my particular Amperex's is that they were a *itch to remove from the sockets.
IMO the most important factor in finding your perfect tube is system synergy.
The MP-D2 is very sensitive to tube rolling so its fun to have a change of pace every now and then.
Concerning the path to audio nirvana, I don't think I'll ever achieve that state of grace. Audionervosa is an incurable disease.
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It will fit very comfortably inside my carry-on polycarbonate suitcase encased in a 2" thick closed cell foam cocoon. Both my Gustard DAC and my D Sachs preamp were transported in this suitcase. I
Michael
They let you transport equipment on the plane? Don't they think it's some type of explosive device?
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They let you transport equipment on the plane? Don't they think it's some type of explosive device?
If they worried about it, no one ever said anything to me. There was one thing I noticed this February when I flew back to Taiwan (after my father had passed). I took my Rancilio Sylvia espresso machine to Taiwan in checked luggage. When I took it out of the padded suitcase, I discovered the top plate had been pried up (presumably to check inside). That plate is now warped a little. It doesn't affect the usability, but I know it's there.
I'll never know if it was US Customs or Taiwan Customs that did it. I thank the Audio Gods that nothing vicious was done to my D Sachs Preamp!
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I'm still here :D. Still have the MP-D2 and enjoying my tube rolling adventures.
Recently, I rolled in a pair of platinum/cryoed Matsushita 7DJ8's. They replaced the platinum/cryoed EH 6H30Pi's. The Matsu's are more balanced with less emphasize on the ends of the sound spectrum. They come across as juicier and thicker but are equally detailed. I'm very happy with them. Only about 30 hours on them so I'll hear if they improve more with age but I like them and may order a backup pair. Actually, they sounded very nice after just a few hours of burn-in. Liquid and buttery would describe their SQ. They seem to occupy the midpoint between the 6H30pi's and the Amperex Orange globes in flavor. One concern with my particular Amperex's is that they were a *itch to remove from the sockets.
IMO the most important factor in finding your perfect tube is system synergy.
The MP-D2 is very sensitive to tube rolling so its fun to have a change of pace every now and then.
Concerning the path to audio nirvana, I don't think I'll ever achieve that state of grace. Audionervosa is an incurable disease.
Thank you, rajacat.
Have you switched out the caps? (I haven't reread this thread in a while, so I don't recall who changed caps.)
Michael
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I've replaced the stock 2.2uf Obbligato Gold's with some used Mundorf 2.2uf silver/oil's. I'd like to try the Dueland's but 2.2uf too pricey for me.
...Roy
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Hey, guys.
Did all you M2-D2 owners suddenly fall into musical nirvana and stop feeling the urge to post about your experiences/impressions with this DAC? C'mon already. Gimme something to read, please! :)
I've had mine for about 3 months and still enjoy it every day. It replaced a PS Audio DirectStream DAC. For tubes I've settled on the EH 6H30 and a Mullard CV378 rectifier. I ordered the D2 with the Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps but replaced them with Jupiter Copper Foil - they were almost $200 each and use every millimeter of space available. The Jupiter probably have 125 hrs on them so they still need burnin time but the sound hasn't changed much lately due to cap burnin. I like them a little better than the Mundorf - the Jupiter sound overall more refined and dig a little deeper into the music - YMMV. I replaced the fuse with SR Black - nice overall improvement. For a power cable I'm using the CPT 150 connected to a CPT 1800 balanced conditioner. I just ordered some 7DJ8 and should have them in a week or so. I tried several 6 & 12v tubes and rectifiers - the 6H30 sound the best in my system which is currently an Octave V110 integrated with BlackBox supply and Martin Logan Ethos. When it cools down I will put in my KR Audio pre and VA910 amps. I feed the DAC with a Sotm SMS200 -> Wired For Sound Recovery and convert everything to DSD256 using Roon/HQPlayer. I bought a much better attenuator but haven't wired it in yet. My system has a bit too much gain and I want to try using the D2 attenuator outputs to see how that works. For me the DAC is a keeper for the time being. I had the PS Audio DS for about 2 years.
Tony
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Tony,
I found the preamp to be substandard at best...very interested in your findings with a pot upgrade.
BTW What pot did you settle on?
Chris
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Tony,
I found the preamp to be substandard at best...very interested in your findings with a pot upgrade.
BTW What pot did you settle on?
Chris
Garry recommended the - TKD 2511 100K volume pot
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Hi Tony, just wondering why you replaced the DS. And how do you compare the sq between the two. I have been looking at both these dacs but would obviously not like to spend the $ on the DS if the MP is really top in sound quality. I just wonder if the MP will be able to play 512. Thx
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Thank you, all.
I have to wonder if there would be a large enough improvement over my stock Gustard X20u to warrant my trying it out. [I could mod the Gustard.]
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Hi Tony, just wondering why you replaced the DS. And how do you compare the sq between the two. I have been looking at both these dacs but would obviously not like to spend the $ on the DS if the MP is really top in sound quality. I just wonder if the MP will be able to play 512. Thx
Hi, I only replaced it because I wanted to play with a tube dac and wanted to upsample to DSD256. The DS is still a great DAC and with the new Huron firmware even better I read. The D2 has that obvious tube something that I always gravitate towards. For me I usually start with tube gear and after a while I try to replace it with SS and always go back. To my ears the D2 is every bit as good as the DS and overall better sounding to my ears - and at 1/6th the retail of the DS it's was an easy choice.
t
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Just noticed that they released V2. It now has swappable DAC chips.
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Just noticed that they released V2. It now has swappable DAC chips.
it's been there for a while. I wish they would send one sample to 6moons for review.
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If you're interested, and have time to read through the final two pages of chit-chat, I attended a great G2G this past Saturday. It was really to celebrate my new Daedalus Audio Apollo speakers, but it was very much a DAC-athon. There were 2 variations of the first MP-D2 present, 2 Metrum DACs, a Denafrips Venus DAC, and an upgraded Lampizator Atlantic (that blew them all out of the water in my opinion- 'course, it cost ~$6500!). It wasn't until after I made my impressions that I learned of its exact cost.
Rather than my retyping my impressions here, here's the link to the other thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.300
Michael
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I was at the the GTG too and I didn't think that the Lampy "blew them all out of the water ". Is there expectation bias here? If its very expensive, it must be better. :scratch:
The good thing about the MP-2 is that it can be tweaked in many ways including, the new version which allows the DAC chips to be updated at will. This DAC is very sensitive to tube and cap rolling. I'm surprised that a competent modder hasn't gotten hold of one of these.
FWIW from my impression, under challenging conditions, iI thought that the Lampy had a bit more "air" so that the space between the speakers had more substance. Since I'm a MP2 owner, I hope that further tweaking and rolling will help with most perceived deficiencies. The Lampy is way out of my price range.
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I have only owned one proper DAC in my time in this hobby, the ifi DAC 2 with the ipurifier. I am very impressed with it compared to my audio interface that I was using beforehand, I could not believe my ears. My computer is currently my main playback source and I wonder if I should spend a little more for a better DAC. what type of improvement would I hear from a DAC like the musical Paradise. Any thoughts. Please consider the DAC 2 is about half the price of the musical Paradise here in Canada.
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After right at a year with the MP-D2 I don't feel like I am missing anything that would justify me spending close to six times the amount. While I have rolled well over a dozen tube options both 12 and 6v I still haven't gotten around to cap rolling. I guess I will get around to it eventually. Have tried many different rectifier options too. For now if I get the urge for a different flavor I just swap the Aqua La Voce in for a while. Not really sure how much more you would get out of the 4997 than the 4490 chip as they are not spec'd that differently to start with. Do have concerns about swapping in an ESS chip with a different basic voicing into the same input buffer that was designed for AKM.
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I was at the the GTG too and I didn't think that the Lampy "blew them all out of the water ". Is there expectation bias here? If its very expensive, it must be better. :scratch:
The good thing about the MP-2 is that it can be tweaked in many ways including, the new version which allows the DAC chips to be updated at will. This DAC is very sensitive to tube and cap rolling. I'm surprised that a competent modder hasn't gotten hold of one of these.
FWIW from my impression, under challenging conditions, iI thought that the Lampy had a bit more "air" so that the space between the speakers had more substance. Since I'm a MP2 owner, I hope that further tweaking and rolling will help with most perceived deficiencies. The Lampy is way out of my price range.
The Lampi Atlantic plus is R2R PCM and chipless DSD...no Dac chips. The output tubes are directly heated pentodes i n triode mode. Unless you fellows heard it with the double Mica 5R4GY (very cheap) or Lampi Kron 5u4g, here is more to get from it...a LOT more, especially if you heard it with the stock recti.
Not sure if that unit you heard had ONLY the DSD256 engine or the full blown chipless DSD512 engine. The latter tkes things to another level for ALL DSD playback rates.
If your system is SE, then no need for Balanced, and that saves a tidy sum. No vol control saves some more. Basic Atlantic is about $4K with SS rectifier, but I would always reccommend the tube recti/DSD512 engine and Amanero superclocked.
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I have only owned one proper DAC in my time in this hobby, the ifi DAC 2 with the ipurifier. I am very impressed with it compared to my audio interface that I was using beforehand, I could not believe my ears. My computer is currently my main playback source and I wonder if I should spend a little more for a better DAC. what type of improvement would I hear from a DAC like the musical Paradise. Any thoughts. Please consider the DAC 2 is about half the price of the musical Paradise here in Canada.
Ifi iDSD black label is well regarded.
However, tube Dacs like MP and Lampi Amber 2 have a different and to many, a more enthralling sound!
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I have the Lampi Amber II and I love it. Changing the 12AU7 and rectifier made a nice but relatively small improvement, as did upgrading the fuse with a SR Black. I bought it just before the news of the MP spread and would love to hear the latter: the tube and cap rolling options are appealing. Anyone have an MP in South Florida and want to get together to compare them?
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I missed the G2G, maybe another time. My question is which dac is more true to the music in your opinion?
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I have the Lampi Amber II and I love it. Changing the 12AU7 and rectifier made a nice but relatively small improvement, as did upgrading the fuse with a SR Black. I bought it just before the news of the MP spread and would love to hear the latter: the tube and cap rolling options are appealing. Anyone have an MP in South Florida and want to get together to compare them?
A friend of mine who lives near Orlando has one. Not that long ago I finally made my way over to hear it and got him set up with a trial of JRiver and also brought over a DAC from a second system I had. Really nice DAC for the money.
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Has anyone with this DAC experienced any issues with reliability?
If it does require service, who fixes it and where?
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John
Only issue I have heard or read about is related to the fuse. It happened to me and per Garry replaced it with a larger size and it has been good for a year since. I suspect repairs would go to Canada where he is.
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John
Only issue I have heard or read about is related to the fuse. It happened to me and per Garry replaced it with a larger size and it has been good for a year since. I suspect repairs would go to Canada where he is.
Thanks, that is very helpful.
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I purchased the MP-D2 in December 2016 and started blowing fuses and could not figure out why. Only recently did I realize why. Won’t go into all the gritty details but it was because I was trying to compare other DACs to the MP-D2 and had everything connected to the same preamp so I could switch back and forth between the MP-D2 and the other DAC.
BTW, the other two “DACs” were the OPPO UDP-203 and a Bluesound Node 2. TMEIMS (that should be a standard acronym to qualify “to my ears in my system”) the MP-D2 DAC sounds slightly better than the OPPO which has a damn good DAC and much better than the Node 2.
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One question I have for the MP-D2 forum is for those who are NOT using a computer connected directly to the MP-D2’s USB port, how are you streaming high rez files to the MP-D2 given that Toslink is limited to 96kbs? I don’t use a computer directly connected to my MP-D2’s usb port to play high rez music. Are you using some kind of renderer like Sonore or SOTM to convert from ethernet to USB? Or is there an option to just connect my USB drive to a local device that can output USB to connect to the MP-D2?
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If you're interested, and have time to read through the final two pages of chit-chat, I attended a great G2G this past Saturday. It was really to celebrate my new Daedalus Audio Apollo speakers, but it was very much a DAC-athon. There were 2 variations of the first MP-D2 present, 2 Metrum DACs, a Denafrips Venus DAC, and an upgraded Lampizator Atlantic (that blew them all out of the water in my opinion- 'course, it cost ~$6500!). It wasn't until after I made my impressions that I learned of its exact cost.
Rather than my retyping my impressions here, here's the link to the other thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141682.300
Michael
The G2G was at my house so I have a pretty good idea how different gear sounds in my room, even if there are different speakers which Micheal brought. I have to agree that the Lampi did blow the other dacs we tried away by a pretty good margin.
My reason for this conclusion is two fold. One is that the dac itself is really open and refined but also has a warmth to it that is very balanced. Roy's and Jake's' both had warmth but to me they didn't have the clarity and open airy presentation that the lampi had.
The big difference in my book is for $6500.00 you get a killer pre amp also. I didn't hear the pre amp in the D2 but from everything I've read it is sub standard, so in my mind that makes a huge difference in the cost to value equation.
Regarding the bias comment, I have to say I was wide open to whatever was installed in the system. Both of the D2 dacs were very good for sure. I really liked the way Jake's was set up but also liked Roy's dac as well, which I mentioned in the thread Michael linked to. I just think the Lampi was more open and resolving and let the music through and into the speakers. Of course, that's just my opinion so take it for what you will.
Michael, I will send you a PM tomorrow. I just had 37 people at my house for Saturday and at least 17 for 6 days, sooo I haven't gotten back to you or Mike who also PM'd me a few days ago.
Over and Out for tonight,
Greg
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:thumb:
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I purchased the MP-D2 in December 2016 and started blowing fuses and could not figure out why. Only recently did I realize why. Won’t go into all the gritty details but it was because I was trying to compare other DACs to the MP-D2 and had everything connected to the same preamp so I could switch back and forth between the MP-D2 and the other DAC. What threw me off was it wouldn’t blow the fuse right away but would blow shortly afterward when I was doing something else but it must have weakened the fuse without blowing it. I have never had a fuse problem unless I was trying to do the A/B “live” switching between DACs. If I first turn the MP-D2 off before throwing the preamp selector switch I never have a problem. So for me it was not a problem with the MP-D2 but how I had it connected while doing live switching.
BTW, the other two “DACs” were the OPPO UDP-203 and a Bluesound Node 2. TMEIMS (that should be a standard acronym to qualify “to my ears in my system”) the MP-D2 DAC sounds slightly better than the OPPO which has a damn good DAC and much better than the Node 2.
I haven't had any fuse issues since switching to 3.5A slow blow. I think that the original fuses were not suitable for the MP-D2.
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One DAC I'd definitely like to hear is the Holo Spring R2R DAC. I almost bought one of these instead of the MP. If the Holo Spring is good enough to satisfy digital guru ted b, I'm interested. Priced $1500 to $2500.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/
What I'm trying to find is a DAC that can compete at a superior level without spending $6000. I was hoping that the MP-D2 could be a possible contender, with extensive mods, at this level. Unfortunately, no talented modder has chosen the MP as a candidate. It would be great if the MP-D2 would be the base for Gustard X20 like mods.
On comparative reviews, I prefer that reviewers would avoid hyperbolic language such as "wiped the floor" and write in more nuanced terms describing comparitive texture, degree of transparency, placement of instruments depth/width of soundstage, etc. Wipe the floor doesn't tell me much.
A DAC is not a mop. :D
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One DAC I'd definitely like to hear is the Holo Spring R2R DAC. I almost bought one of these instead of the MP. If the Holo Spring is good enough to satisfy digital guru ted b, I'm interested. Priced $1500 to $2500.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/
What I'm trying to find is a DAC that can compete at a superior level without spending $6000. I was hoping that the MP-D2 could be a possible contender, with extensive mods, at this level. Unfortunately, no talented modder has chosen the MP as a candidate. It would be great if the MP-D2 would be the base for Gustard X20 like mods.
On comparative reviews, I prefer that reviewers would avoid hyperbolic language such as "wiped the floor" and write in more nuanced terms describing comparitive texture, degree of transparency, placement of instruments depth/width of soundstage, etc. Wipe the floor doesn't tell me much.
A DAC is not a mop. :D
Basic Atlantic SE Dac is only $4k...significantly below the cost of a fully loaded A-Plus. The Atlantic is R2R PCM and chipless DSD256.
If you are going to mod a Dac like the MP-D2, the price may end up close to that $4k
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I will try and help with the comparison of the MP vs the Holo. I am running the MP at the office currently getting some hours on it before I take it home. I have the Holo currently in my system at home and so far very impressed. Without getting my DAC mop bucket out I think it compares highly with the Schiit Yggdrasil. The Holo is a little more revealing and stage front presentation but with great layering. These comments are all based on the Holo NOS mode. Just some initial impressions.
One DAC I'd definitely like to hear is the Holo Spring R2R DAC. I almost bought one of these instead of the MP. If the Holo Spring is good enough to satisfy digital guru ted b, I'm interested. Priced $1500 to $2500.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/
What I'm trying to find is a DAC that can compete at a superior level without spending $6000. I was hoping that the MP-D2 could be a possible contender, with extensive mods, at this level. Unfortunately, no talented modder has chosen the MP as a candidate. It would be great if the MP-D2 would be the base for Gustard X20 like mods.
On comparative reviews, I prefer that reviewers would avoid hyperbolic language such as "wiped the floor" and write in more nuanced terms describing comparitive texture, degree of transparency, placement of instruments depth/width of soundstage, etc. Wipe the floor doesn't tell me much.
A DAC is not a mop. :D
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I will try and help with the comparison of the MP vs the Holo. I am running the MP at the office currently getting some hours on it before I take it home. I have the Holo currently in my system at home and so far very impressed. Without getting my DAC mop bucket out I think it compares highly with the Schiit Yggdrasil. The Holo is a little more revealing and stage front presentation but with great layering. These comments are all based on the Holo NOS mode. Just some initial impressions.
Thanks. I'll be looking forward to your further impressions and comments. :thumb:
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Basic Atlantic SE Dac is only $4k...significantly below the cost of a fully loaded A-Plus. The Atlantic is R2R PCM and chipless DSD256.
If you are going to mod a Dac like the MP-D2, the price may end up close to that $4k
Not that I can't afford a 6K DAC but the tech is changing so fast that unless you have $'s to burn, it seems extravagant to spend that kind of money.
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Musical paradise .. now offering the ESS 9038 chip .. add $471 bucks
No news from them as to what the sonic differences are ... why i wonder ?
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I wonder if there's a way to update the original MP-D2 so that it can accept different chips. :scratch:
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Well they are offering it Upgrade to es9038 pro , for about $370 bucks
You going for it ?
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Well they are offering it Upgrade to es9038 pro , for about $370 bucks
You going for it ? u
I think you have to upgrade to the MK2 version to support to support user changeable chips. I'll email to inquire.
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Roy
If you like the sound of the AKM chipset you won't necessarily like the ESS chipset. Their voicing is different.
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Roy
If you like the sound of the AKM chipset you won't necessarily like the ESS chipset. Their voicing is different.
I like the AKM chip a lot. I'm just curious. I'm curious about how Jupiter copper caps would differ from the Mundorf S/O too. Presently, I'm very happy with how my rig is sounding but always have a little bit of audionervosa. :roll:
BTW I really like the EH 6922 tube. I have the regular pins and cryoed.
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Musical paradise .. now offering the ESS 9038 chip .. add $471 bucks
No news from them as to what the sonic differences are ... why i wonder ?
Part of the price jump is es9038 is an expensive chip. Way more than the akm I would bet.
ESS are neutral lean sounding but not sterile. Micro details and layering and great specs. Matter of taste. AKM definitely different presentation.
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Thxs for info , Well im liking The mytek 192 dsd dac { Es 9018 } chip , So i guess that makes me a sabre lover? , But i want to upgrade to something with tubes .
Hey Rajacat are you using the expensive mullard CV378 rectifier tube as well as the EH 6H30 pi?
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I've read all through this discussion, as well as the one at Audioshark. The MP-D2 is an absolutely fascinating DAC given the ability to not only rube roll, but cap roll, and with new units, even roll the DAC chip? Brilliant concept. I'm seriously looking at buying the basic unit, and then upgrading the tubes and caps. I just want to make sure I have the information right, to do so. I would not be using the unit balanced, so if I understand correctly only the following caps and tubes are involved:
2 capacitators 2.2uf 630v
2 EC88 (or 6922?) tubes
1 5R4G tube
Please let me know if I have things correct, or if other (US or European) tube variations are possible. Thanks very much.
JC
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Purchase one on Friday
Will mod to death
This is a hobby right !
Have fun and buy huge speakers
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Hey guys , I got the dac yesterday and wow its very nice sounding even after an hour of burning , I did change the E88cc tube right away to a Philips SQ NOS tube. The rectifier is next when i get my hands next week on a amperex bugle boy for 1963 production.
Will let you know my impressions .
Im comparing to Mytek DSD dac .
Talking about DSD files .. Not sure but do need to download to this new dac a file or driver ? { I'm running with a macbook/ Roon } . cant get the DSD light to turn on ? i guess its supposed to right !
I can the file plays in all but no confirmation so is it PCM or DSD ? , and the lack of instructions on this dac is ridiculous.
Now i see some Italian made dongle board to download a new software program zip file available or updated as of yesterday on line
I mean i have you remove a Xmos chip physical from this dac and reprogram it on the this thing ! if i replace the AKM chip for a ES chip
A bit much .
Can anyone help me or comment
thxs in advance
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solved my issue .. thxs guys for your help .. NOT
LMAO talking to myself on this crappy :duh:forum
Back to a good forum " Computer Audiophile "
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Djd,
On behalf of the folks at AC I'd like to express my condolences to you for failing to live up to your expectations. It may come as a shock to you that the fine and normally helpful folks who populate this forum actually have lives, responsibilities, hobbies, and activities that prevent them from spending 24/7 on this particular thread.
Kindest regards always,
Michael
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djd
you have been here since 2007. 8 posts? A real contributor.
Tells me you know everything..............C YA!
You don't want to be over at CA!!!!!!!!!!!
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solved my issue .. thxs guys for your help .. NOT
LMAO talking to myself on this crappy :duh:forum
Back to a good forum " Computer Audiophile "
Wow, it's a good thing you're not my lawyer, boss, or friend. Sometimes they have to wait a few days before I even see their email. And then I might take a day or two to think about it before I even respond.
PS: I hope we're never driving down the same highway together. I hate to be in your way.
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solved my issue .. thxs guys for your help .. NOT
LMAO talking to myself on this crappy :duh:forum
Back to a good forum " Computer Audiophile "
Jackass.
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Moderator, clean-up in aisle 7, please.
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Guys , please keep things civil. We are all here because we chose to be here, we are not manufacturer support, nor do we pretend to be.
Todd
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Just took delivery of this dac yesterday and set it up this morning. I purchased on the glowing reviews here and elsewhere and decided to go with the stock unit as I have a bunch of good tubes here and am undecided about what capacitors I might want to install and figured I'd get a feel for the sound first. I'm using Windows 10 with jriver and usb out to the dac. Source files are all flacs, both 16 and 24 bit, and a number of dsd files. I'm running it unbalanced, low gain to my Emotive Sira preamp. Amps are Carver Cherry 180's. Lots of tubes!!!!
I know I'm firmly in the minority and am literally only about 4 hours into a stock unit, but so far I am not real happy. :( Good bottom end, certainly a lot of warm tube sound (too much, and I'm a tube guy!), but flat midrange and no high end. Mud comes to mind. My dsd files sound terrible - no sparkle! This is replacing a relatively cheap Teac UD 301 and the Teac sounded much better. Of course, not giving up yet. I was going to hold off on tube rolling but I think I'm going to have to pop the hood asap. I have one of those mislabeled Phillips 5V4GA (really a 5AR4) that I'll install and then may try out some EH 6922's. I also have some NOS Tesla ECC88's and Mullard 12AU7's I may try. Also waiting on delivery on Voskhod 6N1P-EV's. I need to brighten this baby up, so any capacitor recommendations greatly appreciated. I was thinking of the Audyn True Coppers (if they fit) but am willing to try others.
I'm sure I'll get it to a good, hopefully great, place - after all I've read about this dac, I must be doing something wrong here to be so disappointed!
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Hi, Scott.
I don't own one of these, but in my somewhat limited experience with DACs I've learned to burn them in for 200 hours before I even think I know how it sounds. The Venus DAC I auditioned didn't open up until after 250 hours. [Just two years ago I still thought burn in was BS. Oh, how wrong I was.]
Michael
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I'm with Michael, break-in is important and four hours is hardly time for the unit to fully warm up. If you can give it signal for 200 hours and let it burn in you should be rewarded. I bought mine used and just needed to run it for about 50 hours to get it relaxed again. That said like all equipment it has a presentation that may differ from what you are used to. What DAC were you using brfore?
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You guys are undoubtedly right about the break in and I'll certainly stick with it. Like I said, with all the great write ups by so many folks I am confident that it'll get there. I am very eager to see what this unit does with switching out the stock tubes and then I'll let it run for several days and see where I am.
I was using a little Teac UD 301 before. I was never much into computer audio, instead listening to vinyl or my Sony Modwright for digital. The Teac was fine, but am hoping that the MP represents a big step up when all is said and done!
Thanks for the responses!
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Scott,
I really enjoyed the sound Jake's MP-D2 made a couple months ago at gregfisk's G2G. If you're still not satisfied with its sound after your unit burns in, I'd enthusiastically recommend trying his mods. If I owned one, I would try his mods (or I might try Jupiter Cu caps cuz I like them!).
Michael
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It must be noted I am not running the stock tubes along with the cap upgrade. I am using an old stock Mullard 5AR4 and a quad of matched, cryo'd JJE88CC from Cryoset. Big difference in sound from the stock. The caps I am using are the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil as recommended by MP.
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Been trying to get this somewhere but not working out. Bloated low end, drab midrange and completely muted highs. Unlistenable. On my dsd files, I had to turn my volume up to about 3 o'clock to get the same volume level I was getting at 9 o'clock on my Teac. I switched out the rectifier with a NOS Phillips and put some EH 6922 gold pins in for signal tubes, thinking that maybe it was the stock tubes - some improvement, but not enough to make me want to listen to this unit.
I contacted Garry - he recommended switching to high gain and using foobar. I did both. Again, some minor improvement. I can now get some decent volume with dsd's at 2 o'clock. But foobar made no appreciable difference, so sticking wih jriver for now. Sound is still very muted and muddy. I just switched back in my Teac and there is no comparison.
I'd love to make this work and have to imagine I'm doing something wrong here given all the positive reviews of this dac. The lack of volume alone makes me think there's something fundamentally wrong. Wrong ASIO driver? Wrong tubes? Defective unit? Thinking of returning it at this point, but thought I'd check in with you guys first to see if you had any ideas.
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Wow, really sorry to hear this. Question, are you using the preamp section with the DAC? I use mine stand alone and pipe it into my tube preamp via balanced cables (+6 dB).
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With stock 6H6 tube, RCA output of MP-D2 is about 2.3V RMS(L mode) and 4.6V RMS(H mode) at regular 47K-100k load. Unless Emotive Sira preamp has <10K non standard input impedance, the volume of MP-D2 should not be lower than TEAC (opamp ouput). Regarding DSD, MP-D2 AK4490 runs at native DSD mode (bypassing PCM conversion and volume control), so it is usually about 6db lower than PCM. This is DSD recording standard to allow more headroom for high dynamic range recording. If Emotive Sira preamp uses a non standard <10K volume control pot, then it is not quite compatible unless you change it to a standard 50K or 100K volume control. Most of the preamp and integrated amps should have a 47K to 250K input impedance. Second thing is, according to TEAC UD-301 specs, its output is +14dbu which is 3.88VRMS which is way over CD line level 2VRMS standard.
BTW, new MP-D2 MK2 with ES9038pro and AK4497 have same PCM and DSD output line level, so they could work better for systems do not have enough gain, or don't want to adjust volume a bit higher when playing DSD.
Thanks,
Garry
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Good information, thanks Garry.
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Hi Garry,
Is their a way for owners of original MP-D2 to upgrade to MK2 status? I understand it may not be cheap but still want to know the feasibility.
Thanks
With stock 6H6 tube, RCA output of MP-D2 is about 2.3V RMS(L mode) and 4.6V RMS(H mode) at regular 47K-100k load. Unless Emotive Sira preamp has <10K non standard input impedance, the volume of MP-D2 should not be lower than TEAC (opamp ouput). Regarding DSD, MP-D2 AK4490 runs at native DSD mode (bypassing PCM conversion and volume control), so it is usually about 6db lower than PCM. This is DSD recording standard to allow more headroom for high dynamic range recording. If Emotive Sira preamp uses a non standard <10K volume control pot, then it is not quite compatible unless you change it to a standard 50K or 100K volume control. Most of the preamp and integrated amps should have a 47K to 250K input impedance. Second thing is, according to TEAC UD-301 specs, its output is +14dbu which is 3.88VRMS which is way over CD line level 2VRMS standard.
BTW, new MP-D2 MK2 with ES9038pro and AK4497 have same PCM and DSD output line level, so they could work better for systems do not have enough gain, or don't want to adjust volume a bit higher when playing DSD.
Thanks,
Garry
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Hi pis99,
There are two upgrade options right now.
1. For whom can do soldering work, we can supply a half finished MK2 motherboard for $110USD. Shipping is included. The half finished MK2 motherboard has all surface mount parts and module mount pre-soldered. The user just needs to move the rest through holes parts from the original motherboard to the new one. This is a DIY low cost solution. It is not hard if you know soldering. Do it at your risk. No warranty.
2. For whom has no soldering experience, he can ship the whole unit or motherboard back to Edmonton, Canada for upgrade. The cost is $250USD. He also needs to pay actual two-way shipping cost and duties/taxes if shipped from outside Canada.
AK4497 or/and ES9038pro modules are also required for both options. They are sold separately.
Thanks,
Garry
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Thanks for the info, Garry. I was worried that the dac was not a good fit for my preamp after you and I exchanged some emails, but still hoping that there something else going on as I really wanted to make this work in my system. Your dac seems so well built and versatile. Let me know when you've had a chance to look over the unit.
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Thanks for the info, Garry. I was worried that the dac was not a good fit for my preamp after you and I exchanged some emails, but still hoping that there something else going on as I really wanted to make this work in my system. Your dac seems so well built and versatile. Let me know when you've had a chance to look over the unit.
Maybe stupid question, have you connected your pre with the correct DAC outlets and not the MP-D2 pre outs?
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Scott, what operating system are you using. Win 10 Creator has native support for 24/192 no ASIO driver required.
You should be able to kernal stream everything including DSD files. I am using jRiver 22....
The ASIO driver may not be the best sounding piece of software out there. In direct comparisons between the Auralic supplied ASIO driver and Kernel streaming via jRiver 22 and Win 10 Creator Edition it totally in favor of kernal streaming. The ASIO driver came in last with a much more opaque cloudy sound.
Good luck getting this sorted out.
Scotty
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I've now had the MP-D2 since January and am extremely satisfied with SQ.
My previous DAC history encompass Cambridge DAC1, Audio-Lab MDAC, Audio-GD Ref-5, iFi iDAC2, AMI Musik DS5 ... and some DAC's I may have forgotten.
Prior first power up of MP-D2 I installed following:
Rectifier tube: BRIMAR NOS 5Z4GY/CV1863 (Coke bottle)
Signal tubes: 4x MATCHED 6N23P 6Н23П VOSKHOD
Capacitors: Mundorf Silver/Gold 2,2 uF
My setup looks as follows: Norma Revo IPA-140 integrated amplifier, Gauder Akustik Arcona100 Speakers, MediaPC w. Roon.
Upgraded MP-D2 firmware to version 10-6 today, can't say I noticed any difference.
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10-6 firmware mainly fixes bugs for ES9038Pro, and slightly improves AK4497 bass performance.
This firmware can work on both MP-D2 MK1 and MK2 version although it is not essential to upgrade MK1 firmware.
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Garry,
Quick question for you if you don't mind: when can we expect the MP-D2 to be dsd512 compatible for those of us upsampling using HQPlayer?
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Hi david45,
We are working on a new USB module board for MP-D2 to support DSD512 and external clock.
Thanks,
Garry
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We are working on a new USB module board for MP-D2 to support DSD512 and external clock.
Thanks,
Garry
Will the MP-D2 ever have an I2S input.
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First, I2S is designed for short distance DAC internal connection. It is not quite suitable for long distance external use. Second, there is no international standard for I2S connector. Some DACs use HDMI (LDVS differential). Some use RJ45 Ethernet or even 4 BNCs. Too much hassle to the end users when matching different connectors.
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As Garry said at this point in time I2s is only viable between components of the same brand using the same "standard' like between the PS Audio Memory Player and the Directstream Dac or the Aqua transport and their DAC's. Other than that an option of no value.
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Is anyone using a Microrendu or Ultrarendu with the MP-D2? Is it compatible?
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Is anyone using a Microrendu or Ultrarendu with the MP-D2? Is it compatible?
I've used the SOtM 200, which is similar to the Microrendu, and it worked fine.
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I am using a Raspberry Pi 3 and I never have a problem connecting. The uRendu should have no issues.
The Musical Paradise D2 with the AK4497 is an incredibly musical dac. I changed the rectifier to a GZ37 Mullard and Amerex 6922PQ in place of the Russian tubes and the dac sings. This replaced an Exogal Comet Plus and there was no contest IMO.
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I have Ultrarendu and it works fine with the MK1. I had the SMS200 previously and it worked fine too. I just got a Schiit Yggy and although it sounds good I think I like my MK1 with Jupiter caps a little better. If the Yggy doesn’t get better after a few more days of burnin I will return it and get a 4497 MK2. The first MK2 I bought got seized by customs but Garry promptly returned my $$.
Tony
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Hi david45,
We are working on a new USB module board for MP-D2 to support DSD512 and external clock.
Thanks,
Garry
Hi Garry -
Any progress on the DSD512 front? I have the computing horsepower, but it's still surprisingly difficult to find 4497 dacs that will do DSD512. - Pat
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I am using the Jupiter Copper Foil 1.5uF which fits and works just fine. (Cheaper than the 2.2uF cap)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177186)
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Hi david45,
We are working on a new USB module board for MP-D2 to support DSD512 and external clock.
Thanks,
Garry
I am interested in this as well. Any updates or when this version 3 will be released ?
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This is Dan Wright of ModWright Instruments. If anyone is interested in the potential for mods to this unit, on the order of engineering changes, not just cap or tube changes, please let me know. This product looks very interesting and I am looking for a new product to mod.
Thanks,
Dan Wright
ModWright Instruments Forum here.
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Hello MP-D2 lovers,
I got my DAC upgraded by Dan Wright and could not be happier. Link to my write-up.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158757.new#new (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158757.new#new)
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Does anyone have the update info on MK3 version?
I am interested in this as well. Any updates or when this version 3 will be released ?
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Monitor Musical Paradise's website and email Garry to find out.
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Does anyone have the update info on MK3 version?
It seems it's coming in september and no Modwright Mod need with this version.
Read post from canuckaudiomart member ''yrogins'' and "Petersch": https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42058&start=210 (https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42058&start=210)
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I have the mp-d2 mkI with akm4490 and love the sound, here's my question. I plan on getting the mkIII when it comes out, gary prefers the ess9038pro, i'm thinking that if i love the sound of the 4490 then i should love the 4497.
what are your thoughts 4497 or 9038pro?
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I would stick with what you know.
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I have the mp-d2 mkI with akm4490 and love the sound, here's my question. I plan on getting the mkIII when it comes out, gary prefers the ess9038pro, i'm thinking that if i love the sound of the 4490 then i should love the 4497.
what are your thoughts 4497 or 9038pro?
Marvda1,
This may confuse you more than help you, but this is what I considered adding when I last looked at the MP-D2 DAC's options:
Here's a little background info - I own a Gustard X20u dual 9018 DAC. A buddy in Taiwan bought the next model up with dual 9028 chips. I've read (but not heard) the 9038 is fairly similar, but with some improvement in SQ. My X20u does a good (but not a fantastic) job of converting to analog. It's a little more analytical and a little less warm than other chips. Since I 'discovered' the Tranquility DAC, I realize I prefer a warmer sound over an analytical sound. Until a couple weeks ago, I had a DAC with the 4490 chip (sold it). It's a little warmer sounding than my X20u and less analytical, I think. I also got to listen to two differently modded MP-D2 DACs at gregfisk's G2G last year, so I know it's a fine sounding DAC. :thumb:
My expectation, based on reading only, is that the 4497 chip will have similar voicing to the 4490 chip (warmer/less analytical).
Anyway, I found myself choosing the 4497 chip over the 9038 based upon my experience listening to two Gustard models. Note that I did not place an order for the MkIII. I have not yet decided which DAC to buy to replace my X20u, but the MP-D2 is in the top five.
Helpful? Not so helpful? :dunno:
Good luck and enjoy the journey.
Michael
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Does anyone have the update info on MK3 version?
:popcorn:
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suppose to be out this month.
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Supposed to be pushed out to October the last I heard.
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MK3 is available!
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97 (http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97)
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Now we need a comparison of the three chipsets in this new version!
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Looks like there is a connection for an external clock? Hard to see what type of connector it is.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187636)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187637)
Wonder if an external clock like this would work? https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/live-clock/
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Hi all,
I recently purchased the MKII MP-D2, and after reading many of the threads here and on other forums, my head is spinning with upgrade paths. I'm hoping to gain some knowledge about my particular needs from this unit.
I'm currently sending a digital signal (coax) out from my Yamaha CD-S2100 to the MP-D2. I didn't "need" the MP DAC, but wanted to get some tubes back in my system after selling off my previously owned tubed SACD player. (Shanling T-200). I'm also running single ended RCAs out of the Yamaha to my pre-amp, and can easily switch between inputs on my pre to compare sound quality. My speakers are fairly revealing and efficient (Spatial Audio M3 TS).
While the MP-D2 provides a lush, liquid overall sound which is great for late night listening sessions, the sound stage is more two dimensional when compared to the Yamaha. The Yamaha (paired with the Spatials) puts the artists in my room. The MP-D2, puts the artists in the speakers. Instruments (most of my critical listening is jazz) tend to sound clumped together in-between the speakers and on one plane. There's not much image depth behind the speakers and almost none in front of the speakers. The "sparkle" and air at higher frequencies is also rolled off. Light brushes of the high hat or snare sometimes just aren't there (at lower volumes). My audio tastes lean towards the laid-back and polite, but the MP-D2 is just a little too far in that direction.
I'm currently running the stock tubes, but have also tried a Westinghouse 5U4G rectifier. I'm hoping to learn what tube and cap compliments I could try to improve the sound stage (width, height, depth), and bring back some of the air and sparkle I hear in the CD-S2100. I would like to start with tube replacements and work my way towards caps so I can learn what each replacement part is doing.
Thanks for any assistance. :thumb:
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What is your coax cable? It sounds like to me that you are getting a poor signal to the dac. My 2 cents.....
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Belden 1649a and Pangea Premier XL. Nothing exotic, but not in the box freebie cable either.
No change in sound between cables.
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Try some Telefunken, Siemens, Sylvania or vintage Tung Sol output tubes to get a larger soundstage and more top end. For new stock, Gold Lion is pretty good for detail/air.
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I've now had the MP-D2 since January and am extremely satisfied with SQ.
My previous DAC history encompass Cambridge DAC1, Audio-Lab MDAC, Audio-GD Ref-5, iFi iDAC2, AMI Musik DS5 ... and some DAC's I may have forgotten.
Prior first power up of MP-D2 I installed following:
Rectifier tube: BRIMAR NOS 5Z4GY/CV1863 (Coke bottle)
Signal tubes: 4x MATCHED 6N23P 6Н23П VOSKHOD
Capacitors: Mundorf Silver/Gold 2,2 uF
My setup looks as follows: Norma Revo IPA-140 integrated amplifier, Gauder Akustik Arcona100 Speakers, MediaPC w. Roon.
Upgraded MP-D2 firmware to version 10-6 today, can't say I noticed any difference.
How would a DAC like this compare to an ifi DAC 2? I currently have the ifi DAC 2 but wonder what an upgrade would deliver. I do still like the ifi DAC 2 but if I can improve I would consider moving on up. Any thoughts.
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Thanks for the tube tips Tyson!
Tubeburner's suggestion on coax cable sent me behind the unit last night to recheck connections. I ended up flipping the gain switch to high which seemed to improve sound stage depth and the highs weren't as rolled off. This has a different effect than simply turning up the volume on my pre-amp at the lower gain setting. I understand from reading posts online that the high gain is intended for balanced output. I don't have a manual for this unit and can't seem to find one online. Does anyone know if it's okay to use the high gain with unbalanced output?
I'm also going to try a pair of BEL E88CC / 6922 tubes. Based on the Upscale Audio description, it sounds like they might offer the sound I'm looking for.
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Try the national matsushita 7dj8, 6h23p, and 6h30pi.
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So I'm only one cd into listening after swapping out the stock driver tubes for the BEL E88CC tubes and feel pretty confident there was something wrong with the stock pair. The gain at my preamp is now very closely matched between the coax and analog outs from my CD. The high frequencies and "air" is back. Again, these aren't burned in yet, but I feel I'm heading in the right direction with this dac.
A new rectifier is on the way too, so I'll post a follow up after some significant listening.
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So I'm only one cd into listening after swapping out the stock driver tubes for the BEL E88CC tubes and feel pretty confident there was something wrong with the stock pair. The gain at my preamp is now very closely matched between the coax and analog outs from my CD. The high frequencies and "air" is back. Again, these aren't burned in yet, but I feel I'm heading in the right direction with this dac.
A new rectifier is on the way too, so I'll post a follow up after some significant listening.
Hi Bob,
Do you have a chance to do any critical listening after you install the new rectifier? BTW, which rectifier did you get?
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Why has there been no posts on this thread from anyone who actually purchased the MK3? What am I missing?
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Hi Bob,
Do you have a chance to do any critical listening after you install the new rectifier? BTW, which rectifier did you get?
Hi chanv64,
Sorry for the delay in reply. I have tried 2 aftermarket rectifiers. Both are 5U4G type, and both fit in the case's top hole (with clearance) without modification or socket saver required.
I have a used Westinghouse from around 1967, and a brand new Psvane "247B" (it's really a 5U4G). I honestly cannot hear a difference between the 2 5U4Gs, but there is an improvement over the stock rectifier supplied with the MP-D2. The Psvane has about 50 hours on it. I'm under the impression it'll improve further after 100 hours.
The most dramatic change in sound came from swapping out the stock driver tubes with the BEL E88CC. The sound between stock and aftermarket tubes is like listening to 2 different pieces of equipment. It seems very sensitive to driver tube changes and I now understand why most owners have boxes of extra tubes to try out. :D
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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try the sovtek 6h30pi, great all round sound. it's taller than other tubes, tip just sticks out of the hole.
there are reports that the 6h23p also sounds good, but i have not heard it.
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I've had the MK3 running for a full two week now and this is a serious audiophile dac. The soundstage is immense, the notes are rich with detail and it makes me want to listen. The MK3 is a big step up from the MK2 IMO. The usb has never faultered to any material I have tried or missed a connection. Even my wife was impressed by the sound. Gary's claims of more bass is correct, but I feel the bass is more accurate and dynamic. The mids and highs are wonderful. Voice has all the nuances and feel they should. The highs are clean and have sparkle. Not goey, but accurate. The MK3 is easily worth the money. My 2 cents.
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In my system the 6h23 was a far better sounding tube than the 6h30. I like the stock tubes better than 6h30's but just my preference as I don't like 6h30 based preamps either.
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I didn't care for the Russian tubes and found the 6922 PQ and Brimar 6922 to my liking. I have several different rectifiers that I can roll and find the rectifier is a valuable tube to have for this dac.
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Tubeburner, what caps, tubes, and chip is in your new MK3 dac. Thx
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Tubeburner, what caps, tubes, and chip is in your new MK3 dac. Thx
I would like to know as well, I'm really thinking about one of these ( MK3) for an office.
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I am using Mundorf 2.2uf Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Tubes are Amperex USA 6922 and Mullard U52 CV575 rectifier. I have several rectifiers, but wanted to let this break in. The caps were from my MK2, so they were well broken in. I have the new ES9038 pro chip set. The sound is awsome IMO.
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I am using Mundorf 2.2uf Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Tubes are Amperex USA 6922 and Mullard U52 CV575 rectifier. I have several rectifiers, but wanted to let this break in. The caps were from my MK2, so they were well broken in. I have the new ES9038 pro chip set. The sound is awsome IMO.
Hey thanks. I was thinking about getting both the ESS9038 installed and getting the AK4497 module. I was noticing that they are offering the Mundorf 2.2uf Silver/Gold/Oil caps as an upgrade option.
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It's a bit disconcerting on the ordering webpage for the Mk3 it still says Mk2 on all three choices for DAC chips. Also note that one can buy the four Mundorf caps from Sonic Craft for about $40 less and matching to 1% is only a dollar each.
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It's a bit disconcerting on the ordering webpage for the Mk3 it still says Mk2 on all three choices for DAC chips. Also note that one can buy the four Mundorf caps from Sonic Craft for about $40 less and matching to 1% is only a dollar each.
I saw that, but a lot of manufactures are late in webpage updates and simple email handles most important questions. . . And regarding the caps, I would rather have them installed and tested before I ever got the unit. IF I bought them I would go through https://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitors-film-mundorf-supreme.html
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I saw that, but a lot of manufactures are late in webpage updates and simple email handles most important questions. . . And regarding the caps, I would rather have them installed and tested before I ever got the unit. IF I bought them I would go through https://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitors-film-mundorf-supreme.html
You almost got me there, mav52. Your link is to the Mundorf Supreme and the cap referenced by Tubeburner and MP is the Mundorf Supreme S/G/O. Quite the difference in price and performance. As to wanting them installed and tested first? Each to his own, I installed my caps myself no problem. I bought my DAC used from an AC member and it had two Supreme S/G/O's as the previous owner operated in single-ended mode. I wanted to run fully balanced so I needed two more and I wanted them matched. Since PO had bought the first two from Sonic Craft and they had that info available they were able to make a very close match to within 0.2% tolerance. Partsconnexion is an excellent company and I have purchased from them many times in the past.
I would love to be able try a set of Jupiter Copper Foils but @ ~$800 it won't be this or next week! :lol:
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If you are running single ended, you just replace two caps. If balanced, you replace all four caps. Sonic Craft does a nice job with cap matching. Easy to install in this dac. You can email Gary with questions. He responds in a reasonable time.
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Hello. Does any body know what frequency is required for the clock inputs on the ess9038pro dac boards? I mean not the masterclock input on the back side, but the sma or bnc connectors on the 9038 dac boards. Thanks in advance.
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Just wanted to provide an update on my MP-D2 (AKM4497 chip) Mk2.
I picked up a pair of Amperex 7308 (orange labels) to try out and compare with the BEL E88CCs I had previously installed.
The BELs were a huge improvement from the stock tubes (which made the MP-D2 sound like it arrived broken). They provided an increased gain, overall more forward "here in the room" sound and slightly emphasized top end sparkle (but not fatiguing). Worth a try if you need to brighten up a dull/flat system.
By contrast, the Amperex tubes sound a bit darker, definitely fuller in the mid-bass, and provide slightly fatter/looser low end. Overall bass output increased a bit, but not to the point of overkill. Worth a try if you want to plump up a thin system, but not what I would consider a "bargain" priced tube. I'd be interested to learn if there are any newly manufactured, sanely-priced, tubes that MP-D2 owners are jazzed about.
In the name of further tinkering with this unit, I ordered a pair of Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil caps to try out. I don't feel I need a cap upgrade, but am curious to hear what (if any) difference in sound they provide. I'll report back once they've had some significant burn in time.
Still running the Psvane "274B" rectifier tube, and find no need to search for others.
I'm very satisfied with this tubed DAC and the flexibility it offers.
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I have a few weeks with the Mundorf Silver/Oil caps in place (single ended connections), and I find the difference from the stock caps very subtle. Just a touch of finer grain/smoothness to the overall sound. Swapping them satisfied my curiosity, but I don't think I'll continue the hunt for additional cap variants.
The biggest difference in sound character / quality in my experience would rank in this order:
1. Signal Tubes
2. Rectifier Tube
3. Output coupling caps
Still extremely satisfied with this piece of equipment!
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I am using a Raspberry Pi 3 and I never have a problem connecting. The uRendu should have no issues.
The Musical Paradise D2 with the AK4497 is an incredibly musical dac. I changed the rectifier to a GZ37 Mullard and Amerex 6922PQ in place of the Russian tubes and the dac sings. This replaced an Exogal Comet Plus and there was no contest IMO.
Hello. I am owner of Exogal Comet Plus thinking about MP as upgrade. How would you compare them? Is it night and day difference?
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Hi, I never heard of this Dac until 20 minutes ago when someone on Audiogon provided a link for it. I am trying to find out if Mod Wright is still doing the mods on this.
I have been looking at the Denafrips Terminator DAC and the Linear Audio Tube microZolt preamp. $10K all together. Anyway for the money, it looks like a great deal!
From what I read here the preamp section may be the weak point. I have an old Arcam AVR 300 with an excellent preamp section and a remote control which this DAC apparently lacks as I saw no reference to one. That is a must for me. Also a lot of good information here about upgrading the tubes.
I have a First Watts SIT-3 amp and Super Alnico High Output Monitors which I think would go great with it. :D
Are there tariffs on this now or will there be on September 1st?
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On NOV 10 2019 Musical Paradise MP-D2 DAC was upgraded to MK3 Deluxe version.
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I recently upgraded my MP-D2 MK-1 to the MP-D3 Deluxe. For those with the MK-1 this is a fantastic upgrade at a very reasonable price. I also upgraded the USB board and splurged for the Crystek clock.
This upgrade has taken a very good DAC to another level with much better separation, detail, PRAT and transparency. I stuck with the AK4490 and it sounds great but looking forward to trying the ES9038 PRO and the new AK4499.
If you're on the fence about this upgrade just go for it; you won't regret it, it's a game changer.
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I recently upgraded my MP-D2 MK-1 to the MP-D3 Deluxe. For those with the MK-1 this is a fantastic upgrade at a very reasonable price. I also upgraded the USB board and splurged for the Crystek clock.
This upgrade has taken a very good DAC to another level with much better separation, detail, PRAT and transparency. I stuck with the AK4490 and it sounds great but looking forward to trying the ES9038 PRO and the new AK4499.
If you're on the fence about this upgrade just go for it; you won't regret it, it's a game changer.
Out of curiosity, has the power supply and main casing changed at all since the MK-1? I know all the boards can be swapped out, which isn't too hard. And I know the MK-3 got some larger tube openings on the top, but that's about it right?
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Anyone in the DC area have a MP-D2 MK3 they would demo? The shipping from/possible return to China is not inviting.
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Out of curiosity, has the power supply and main casing changed at all since the MK-1? I know all the boards can be swapped out, which isn't too hard. And I know the MK-3 got some larger tube openings on the top, but that's about it right?
Go to http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=97 for a list of improvements over earlier versions. However, some of the changes aren't listed and the site should be made current.
There are some other forums in which the details and mods of the MK-3 are discussed extensively.
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All,
I have recently ordered the MP-D2 with Sabre Chip, wanted to know what options there were with the output and rectifier tube upgrades to get a warm organic holographic sound without loosing detail.
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All,
I have recently ordered the MP-D2 with Sabre Chip, wanted to know what options there were with the output and rectifier tube upgrades to get a warm organic holographic sound without loosing detail.
It sounds like you should have gone with one of the AKM chips instead of Sabre since they're closer to the sound qualities you're after. :cry:
The output tubes have a greater impact on sound in this dac (in my experience). Perhaps NOS Amperex tubes here.
For rectifier tubes, a NOS Mullard GZ34...rare, and pricy. For new tubes, I've been happy with the Psvane 5U4G.
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It sounds like you should have gone with one of the AKM chips instead of Sabre since they're closer to the sound qualities you're after. :cry:
The output tubes have a greater impact on sound in this dac (in my experience). Perhaps NOS Amperex tubes here.
For rectifier tubes, a NOS Mullard GZ34...rare, and pricy. For new tubes, I've been happy with the Psvane 5U4G.
I did ask Garry, and said I might prefer the AKM but he advised against it saying of my system sounded analytical and dry then you need AKM.
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The output tubes have a greater impact on sound in this dac (in my experience). Perhaps NOS Amperex tubes here.
For rectifier tubes, a NOS Mullard GZ34...rare, and pricy. For new tubes, I've been happy with the Psvane 5U4G.
I do have Ampherex 6922's in my headphone amp, or should I get the highly recommended: 6H30Pi Electro Harmonix gold pin
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If you're looking for any sort of warmth to the sound I would stay away from the 6H30 tubes. What I would suggest having owned a Mk I and now a Mk III Deluxe is to concentrate on finding a good NOS rectifier tube and it isn't required that it be an expensive NOS Blackburn Mullard. In fact the Japanese Matsushita 5AR4 tube that Andy at VTS sells for under $70 is a great alternative. It was built in the Japanese Matsushita tube plant that was setup and tooled by Mullard. Other alternatives that I like are the 5R4 and the 5AS4 tubes from RCA.
The supplied 6H4 tubes supplied by Garry with the unit are actually quit good and are the sister tube to the 6H30 and designed for Audio use unlike the 6H30 which was an industrial tube made popular by Victor from BAT as it was cheap for him to buy in bulk. I tried close to two dozen 6 and 7 volt tube combos plus multiple NOS 6N23 tubes and ended up back with the supplied tubes. The worst sounding to me was the EH 6H30. So I would suggest you get the NOS rectifier and then break in the unit with the supplied input tubes and give them a chance.
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I use the sovtek 6h30pi which sounds quite nice.
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If you're looking for any sort of warmth to the sound I would stay away from the 6H30 tubes. What I would suggest having owned a Mk I and now a Mk III Deluxe is to concentrate on finding a good NOS rectifier tube and it isn't required that it be an expensive NOS Blackburn Mullard. In fact the Japanese Matsushita 5AR4 tube that Andy at VTS sells for under $70 is a great alternative. It was built in the Japanese Matsushita tube plant that was setup and tooled by Mullard. Other alternatives that I like are the 5R4 and the 5AS4 tubes from RCA.
The supplied 6H4 tubes supplied by Garry with the unit are actually quit good and are the sister tube to the 6H30 and designed for Audio use unlike the 6H30 which was an industrial tube made popular by Victor from BAT as it was cheap for him to buy in bulk. I tried close to two dozen 6 and 7 volt tube combos plus multiple NOS 6N23 tubes and ended up back with the supplied tubes. The worst sounding to me was the EH 6H30. So I would suggest you get the NOS rectifier and then break in the unit with the supplied input tubes and give them a chance.
I have ordered the upgraded rectifier from Garry, do I need to look at alternatives?
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If you ordered one of Garry's NOS US made 5U4 rectifiers then you are good. Whether or not you want to hit Ebay or other Australian sellers to try alternatives is up to you. Each of the 5 volt varieties on the list are fine and all sound slightly different from each other. But sadly the days of being able to find a new alternative in the $20 range just to try it out are gone. I own at least one of all the alternatives and for many of them multiples but as I bought most of them years ago I have very little in them so I can just swap them around. Give the 5U4G you bought from Garry several hundred hours to break in before you start swapping things around so you have a solid baseline to work from. You may in fact find you like things the way they are like I did. In the end it's all about what your ears like and not what the forums like especially since most giving you buying advice have never seen or heard the gear in question much less had it in their own system.
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The DAC was delivered yesterday, noticed the output via balanced is lower than my previous audio gd dac.
Will changing the output tubes increase the output level?
Not that its a big issue, I'd rather get the sound signature right than have it play louder.
It looks spectacular, the RCA rectifier is nice and very clean looking for being NOS.
I got the DAC with the femto clock USB input and the Sabre chip.
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Changing the tubes will have no bearing on the gain of 5 volts. The AudioGd is probably 6 volts like a lot of Chinese gear. The general standard is 4 volts so they are both over. If in the end the Sabre chip is not to your liking or if you just want to change it up you can order the AKM chips from Garry and swap them out yourself.
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I was recommended the Sabre Chip, I was concerned it might be little too clinical.
So far the sound signature is very mellow so no need to change.
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Some pictures of the setup.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206610)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206611)
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Just a suggestion, buy some socket savers and you can roll tubes without pulling the lid and it allows for ST shaped rectifiers with the extra height. You can see your tubes lit up at night too. Just a FYI.
Warmer sound can be had with Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Running balanced will be more expensive unfortunately.
Read Dubstep Girl post about rectifiers here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-r
Beware, you will want to try many different rectifiers. I did.
Very enjoyable dac. I may buy another one some day.
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Just a suggestion, buy some socket savers and you can roll tubes without pulling the lid and it allows for ST shaped rectifiers with the extra height. You can see your tubes lit up at night too. Just a FYI.
Warmer sound can be had with Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Running balanced will be more expensive unfortunately.
Read Dubstep Girl post about rectifiers here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-r
Beware, you will want to try many different rectifiers. I did.
Very enjoyable dac. I may buy another one some day.
What tubes savers will be compatible.
Any link to buy the sockets.
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Which one from this website for the socket savers.
https://www.evatco.com.au/tubes-sockets/
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I just ordered this one. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076GT5X4X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I've been on a rectifier rolling tear.
I'm burning in a Brimar 5R4GY presently.
Others in rotation are:
USAF 596
Bendix 6106
Bendix 5852
Burn-in gets to be tedious after awhile. I'm looking forward to settling on a rectifier for the long run. I made the mistake of building a new power cord and engaging in the long burn-in while trying to decide on a rectifier tube. They both affect the sound and it is easily audible.
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This should be it.
https://www.evatco.com.au/socket-saver-octal
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You need nine pin and a octal pin saver. It is best to email them as the first set I got the pins were too small. They had them listed as ones that would work. They took them back with no issues. I double stacked the 9 pin sockets for height, so I had 8 of the 9 pin savers.
Rectifiers I liked: Mullard GZ37, USAF 596, Philips 5R4GYS....
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This should be it.
https://www.evatco.com.au/socket-saver-octal
This for the rectifier, what about the output tubes socket saver.
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You need nine pin and a octal pin saver. It is best to email them as the first set I got the pins were too small. They had them listed as ones that would work. They took them back with no issues. I double stacked the 9 pin sockets for height, so I had 8 of the 9 pin savers.
Rectifiers I liked: Mullard GZ37, USAF 596, Philips 5R4GYS....
Have you tried EM Labs 5u4g, I used to use it with my Lampizator Level 7
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I used a cryo Philips 5r4gys from Upscale with my MP D2 when I had it. If anyone is interested in it PM me to discuss the details. Went to a one box set up I’m very happy with.
Chris
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noticed the output via balanced is lower than my previous audio gd dac.
Will changing the output tubes increase the output level?
Not that its a big issue, I'd rather get the sound signature right than have it play louder.
The issue seemed to be a faulty xlr cable that I had received for free with my headphone amp.
I just swapped it with one from my stereo system and that fixed the gain.
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Very weird and confusing , the gain went back to low.
I turned a few things off and on including the UltraRendu and the gain is high again.
Not sure what the issue is.
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Very weird and confusing , the gain went back to low.
I turned a few things off and on including the UltraRendu and the gain is high again.
Not sure what the issue is.
Apparently it’s the microprocessor that seems to be faulty.
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Did you try exercising the gain switches on the back of the a couple of times to make sure they are seated in the correct position?
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Did you try exercising the gain switches on the back of the a couple of times to make sure they are seated in the correct position?
I have, it’s not just the gain, the imaging and soundstage also gets impacted when not operating I. The right mode.
I believe for the microprocessor to operate in the right model the variable led needs to light up 3 times.
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Try taking the top of and checking that all the cable connectors are fully seated.
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What tubes are you all settled on and why.
I have ordered the Gold Lion 6922 Quad.
Reluctant to change the stock tubes as I really enjoy the stock ones.
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After testing almost two dozen combos of tubes I went back to the supplied ones.
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After testing almost two dozen combos of tubes I went back to the supplied ones.
Did you try the gold lion 6922’s what was your feedback about them.
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I only had the single new pair that came with the BHK amp so I could only test the SE. They are not bad and are the best of the current production 6 volt tubes. Most of the NOS tubes were better but I still preferred the original tubes.
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I only had the single new pair that came with the BHK amp so I could only test the SE. They are not bad and are the best of the current production 6 volt tubes. Most of the NOS tubes were better but I still preferred the original tubes.
I Cannot imagine much sonic improvement compared to what Iam currently hearing from the DAC with stock tubes.
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I think that sometimes what people claim to hear with some of the high dollar NOS tubes is expectations of more money meaning better sound. I haven't found that to be true with this DAC in particular. The best other tubes I found in my search were late 60's to early 70's 6n23's that I bought many years ago.
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I think that sometimes what people claim to hear with some of the high dollar NOS tubes is expectations of more money meaning better sound. I haven't found that to be true with this DAC in particular. The best other tubes I found in my search were late 60's to early 70's 6n23's that I bought many years ago.
I have ordered 2 reflector 6n23’s for my headphone amp, if I like the sound I might buy 2 more so I c an use them in the dac.
Do you need adapters to use them ?
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No, direct 6 volt drop in. Not sure where other than Eastern European Ebay sellers you can still get the older ones.
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I've settled on the Brimar 5r4gy as my main rectifier. I love the sweet mid range and the revealing texture. I'll probably continue to occasionally rotate in the others for variety. It's kind of like wine in that the flavors vary and variety is the spice of life. :D I bi amp my mains and have three subs. I can tweak the woofers and tweeters to somewhat account for the various perceived weaknesses in the tubes. I tried to like the stock tube but in my system it came across as a little too bright, busy and metallic. Maybe I didn't give it long enough break in but I doubt that I would still like it even after 200 hrs.
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I've settled on the Brimar 5r4gy as my main rectifier. I love the sweet mid range and the revealing texture. I'll probably continue to occasionally rotate in the others for variety. It's kind of like wine in that the flavors vary and variety is the spice of life. :D I bi amp my mains and have three subs. I can tweak the woofers and tweeters to somewhat account for the various perceived weaknesses in the tubes. I tried to like the stock tube but in my system it came across as a little too bright, busy and metallic. Maybe I didn't give it long enough break in but I doubt that I would still like it even after 200 hrs.
I would recommend giving the stock tubes some further burning in.
I find the stock tubes anything but bright.
What are you now using for output tubes?
As for the Brimar rectifier, does it really make a difference? I got the RCA 5u4 from Garry.
Have you tried the brown base Mullard CV378?
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I suspect that there's about 20 hours on the stock rectifier. It would have to change drastically to get the mid range I desire. Of course, all this is system dependent along with personal taste. If you like stock recti, the Bendix 5852 is an interesting tube. I'm tempted to play with it more. You have to flip the switch because its also a 6V rectifier. To me it seemed like a little more refined 6Z5. Maybe one of these days I'll give the stock one some more hours.
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OK, I inserted the stock rectifier and will let it burn in some more. You and Jack D seem to be sold on it so I'll give it another chance. :green:
It's been a long time since I changed the output tubes. I'm running some ECC88s that I got used and most of the logo is worn off so I'm not sure exactly what they are but they're from Holland, similar to Bugle Boys and they sound great. I already have done a stint of rolling output tubes.
I've found that the new Stage III board more sensitive to different tubes that the old Stage I.
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OK, I inserted the stock rectifier and will let it burn in some more. You and Jack D seem to be sold on it so I'll give it another chance. :green:
It's been a long time since I changed the output tubes. I'm running some ECC88s that I got used and most of the logo is worn off so I'm not sure exactly what they are but they're from Holland, similar to Bugle Boys and they sound great. I already have done a stint of rolling output tubes.
I've found that the new Stage III board more sensitive to different tubes that the old Stage I.
That will probably be the Amperex 6922’s
Have you got a picture?
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rajacat
I'm not talking about the stock rectifier but rather the stock output tubes. I only used the stock rectifier about 20 hours on the Mk I while it was warming up initially. Have never used it on the Mk. III. I use mostly a Blackburn Mullard 5AR4 as a rectifier but periodically swap in an RCA 5AS4 or 5R4. I have one of the "famous" Phillips 5R4GYS rectifiers but never warmed up to it. Also tried a Tung Sol NOS GZ5 but in the end decided to stick with the 5 volt rectifiers and the supplied output tubes.
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That will probably be the Amperex 6922’s
Have you got a picture?
Yeah, I found the old AC ad. They're PC88 Siemens Halske made in Germany . Mine don't have the gold pins though. Sorry about the poor photo. They're in my DAC now and I don't want to disturb them until I'm ready to roll. BTW I'm still burning in the stock rectifier and yes, now it sounds better. The verdict is still out on rectifiers; I keep adjusting my opinion. :scratch:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170772)
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Yeah, I found the old AC ad. They're PC88 Siemens Halske made in Germany . Mine don't have the gold pins though. Sorry about the poor photo. They're in my DAC now and I don't want to disturb them until I'm ready to roll. BTW I'm still burning in the stock rectifier and yes, now it sounds better. The verdict is still out on rectifiers; I keep adjusting my opinion. :scratch:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170772)
I understand the Siemens are a little brighter than the Amperex .
It’s a good balanced tube, I’ve not heard it but it’s definitely a special tube for sure.
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I will soon get to try the Gold Lion 6922’s hope will like it as the stock tubes are so nice already.
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try the sovtek (not eh ) 6h30pi
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I would recommend giving the stock tubes some further burning in.
I find the stock tubes anything but bright.
What are you now using for output tubes?
As for the Brimar rectifier, does it really make a difference? I got the RCA 5u4 from Garry.
Have you tried the brown base Mullard CV378?
After a number of hours I decided that the stock rectifier is not for me. Too bright for my rig. The Brimar is back in and sounding better and better with more hours. The Brimar has what I would call great lush detail with an excellent holographic sound stage. Some may say that it's too lush but in my system with 110 db compression tweeters/ 18" wave guide, I have detail to spare.
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After a number of hours I decided that the stock rectifier is not for me. Too bright for my rig. The Brimar is back in and sounding better and better with more hours. The Brimar has what I would call great lush detail with an excellent holographic sound stage. Some may say that it's too lush but in my system with 110 db compression tweeters/ 18" wave guide, I have detail to spare.
We’re not using stock rectifier either.
What we were referring to were the stock output tubes.
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Hah! Much ado about nothing. :green:
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I replaced the stock output tubes today and the level of detail and desperation has improved while maintaining the same tonal balance and bass energy.
I replaced the tubes with Gold Lion 6922’s on Garry’s advise.
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I just bought 3 more rectifiers :roll:. Definitely audionervosa has entrapped me. I got these at a very good price. :)
Mullard GZ32 5V4 CV 593
RCA 5RU4G Black plate
5c3s Russian Winged/C
I now have a stash of at least 10 compatible rectifiers.
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I replaced the stock output tubes today and the level of detail and desperation has improved while maintaining the same tonal balance and bass energy.
I replaced the tubes with Gold Lion 6922’s on Garry’s advise.
I'll be interested on your opinion on the Gold Lions. It would be great to have a high quality new production valve.
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Hi,
I stumble upon this dac with the newest version but I am not sure which chip to get? Is the ESS ES9038PRO or AKM 4990 better? I am looking to pair it with my Blusound Node 2i using a Klipsch Forte iii speakers and a Line Magnetic 805ia SET Tube Amp.
My system mostly my analog are all tubes even my universal player has a modwright mod LX500 and looking for a DAC that has tube output stage.
Any recommendations for the MP Tube Dac?
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Hi,
I stumble upon this dac with the newest version but I am not sure which chip to get? Is the ESS ES9038PRO or AKM 4990 better? I am looking to pair it with my Blusound Node 2i using a Klipsch Forte iii speakers and a Line Magnetic 805ia SET Tube Amp.
My system mostly my analog are all tubes even my universal player has a modwright mod LX500 and looking for a DAC that has tube output stage.
Any recommendations for the MP Tube Dac?
I would ask Garry directly, contact him via the website.I recently bought mine and was advised to get the Sabre chip as it’s significantly more detailed without sounding dry.
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I would ask Garry directly, contact him via the website.I recently bought mine and was advised to get the Sabre chip as it’s significantly more detailed without sounding dry.
I have emailed him directly from the website already. Awaiting for a reply. The AKM 4990 from my Pioneer LX500 doesn't sounds good for me. It sucks that I can't use it as a DAC. It has no Audio inputs.
I am thinking just to get a Sabre Chip so I can A/B test them, the DAC would use mostly for streaming from my Node 2i.
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I am still trying to get a good balance between the 6922 Garry suggested. Good recordings sound good.
Bad recordings sound too harsh, bright etc.
I am going to try Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi GOLD PINS. I also have a Bugle Boy from the 1960s.6DJ8
Thanks,
Mike
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After a number of hours I decided that the stock rectifier is not for me. Too bright for my rig. The Brimar is back in and sounding better and better with more hours. The Brimar has what I would call great lush detail with an excellent holographic sound stage. Some may say that it's too lush but in my system with 110 db compression tweeters/ 18" wave guide, I have detail to spare.
Rajacat, I use a couple different 5U4G rectifiers in my MK2. First (stupid) question if you don't mind. Do you notice any performance difference in the MP-D2 5R4GY? Is it compatible? I understand they have a different current draw than the 5U4G.
I've read that people love the Brimar for their lush sound, I'm wondering if you can provide any further thoughts on its performance in this DAC. I'd be curious to try one. Thanks!
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I am still trying to get a good balance between the 6922 Garry suggested. Good recordings sound good.
Bad recordings sound too harsh, bright etc.
I am going to try Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi GOLD PINS. I also have a Bugle Boy from the 1960s.6DJ8
Thanks,
Mike
a lot say the sovtek 6h3pi sounds better than the eh.
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I am still trying to get a good balance between the 6922 Garry suggested. Good recordings sound good.
Bad recordings sound too harsh, bright etc.
I am going to try Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi GOLD PINS. I also have a Bugle Boy from the 1960s.6DJ8
Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
Iam really enjoying the Gold Lion 6922’s try those.
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I am happy to say that I have joined the club here on AudioCircle and also the MP-D2 Club.
Unfortunately my first try at getting it going was unsuccessful. My iMac detects it but it says that "The selected device does not have output controls".
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I couldn't find the "edit" button so I will just provide an update.
The short version... it all just started working. lol
Well... here is what I did. I tried plugging the USB into my MacBook Pro and it started working. Then I plugged it back into my iMac where I intend to keep using it... and it magically started working on it too.
Just giving it some listening time now and I am happy to say that it adds another sound to my system that I can turn to when I'm in that certain mood for that sound.
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I couldn't find the "edit" button so I will just provide an update.
The short version... it all just started working. lol
Well... here is what I did. I tried plugging the USB into my MacBook Pro and it started working. Then I plugged it back into my iMac where I intend to keep using it... and it magically started working on it too.
Just giving it some listening time now and I am happy to say that it adds another sound to my system that I can turn to when I'm in that certain mood for that sound.
I sometimes need to use my iMac's Audio Midi Setup window to tell the imac to use the MP-D2 for sound output (through USB), as it often defaults to the optical out which I use as a source for my second (home office system). Glad to hear you got it working.
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I took possession of MP-D2 a couple of weeks ago. It's a fabulous piece of gear but I'm experiencing a slightly perplexing fault. I'm using a mac mini with Roon feeding the DAC out of USB. That part's fine - the problem happens when I pause playback. Often when the playback resumes only one of the channels is working. Audio is coming out of one speaker, but only a light hiss out of the other - that tells me that it's not the amp causing the problem. The only way I can get back to two-channels is to restart the DAC.
I took the lid off it and checked that all the reachable circuit boards were well seated, and the valves were certainly well seated. Everything looks solidly put together - solder joints etc seem certainly adequate to the task.
Has anyone experienced a similar issue, or can someone please point me in the right direction for troubleshooting?
Many thanks
Michael
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I took possession of MP-D2 a couple of weeks ago. It's a fabulous piece of gear but I'm experiencing a slightly perplexing fault. I'm using a mac mini with Roon feeding the DAC out of USB. That part's fine - the problem happens when I pause playback. Often when the playback resumes only one of the channels is working. Audio is coming out of one speaker, but only a light hiss out of the other - that tells me that it's not the amp causing the problem. The only way I can get back to two-channels is to restart the DAC.
I took the lid off it and checked that all the reachable circuit boards were well seated, and the valves were certainly well seated. Everything looks solidly put together - solder joints etc seem certainly adequate to the task.
Could be buggy firmware, mine does something strange too where the Sabre dacs are not detected by the flashing variable light at boot up.
And the sound is softer and not enjoyable.
I use a UltraRendu and was advised by Gary that it’s the software in the UltraRendu that’s at fault .
So what I do is unplug the USB every time I boot up the player and then plug it back to set the dac in the property mode to play.Why do you need to know all this?
Perhaps Gary can get you a workaround for yours.
Has anyone experienced a similar issue, or can someone please point me in the right direction for troubleshooting?
Many thanks
Michael
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I received my MP D2 MK3 and have about 80 hours on it now.
I ordered it with the 9038 DAC chip and Crystek 957 Femto Clock upgrade.
It sounds lovely and does add a nice touch to my system.
But it makes a click through the speakers between songs while streaming if I have my streamer on shuffle or even if I'm manually selecting different songs from different albums.
It doesn't make the click if I just play an entire album through my streamer.
I read this entire thread before purchasing and didn't see a single mention of this. Does anyone else have this issue?
My 2ch system is setup solely through streaming so I can't say if this would happen with any other source.
I emailed Garry of MParadise and he suggested I switch to USB to solve the problem but my streamer (node2i) doesn't have a USB out.
His reply in it's entirety
" If you use coaxial input, your specific player cuts off signals and on very fast when selecting different tracks, the DAC follows it to switch muting relay on/off. I will try to take a look at the firmware source code to find a solution to this compatibility issue. You can use a computer, cell phone or tablet to run Qobuz and Spotify via USB. USB sounds better than coaxial and don't have this kind of issue.
Thanks,
Garry "
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Does anyone have any experience with this DAC vs an R2R design? I am in the market for a new DAC and have been eyeing the MHDT Pagoda. I have read all of the pages on this DAC and it seems like a tremendous value.
I have tube mono blocs in the high / mid section of my speakers that are bi amped. These are Prima Luna Dialogue 7 series with 4 x KT88, 2 x NOS 12AU7, and 2 x NOS 12AX7’s in each module.
I also have a pre amp that uses a pair of EML Mesh 300B’s and a pair of NOS 12AU7’s.
So, lots of tubes already in the system.
DSD in not a winner / loser for me, I do have have about 100 titles in my library.
Please let me thoughts / feedback - I plan on pulling the trigger in the next 60 days.
I also have an iFi galvanic device that is supposed to clean up the USB signal so do not think the clock upgrade is worth the $$.
Honestly thinking if I went this route will be probably all stock and I then I have my own tube stash to pick from.
Thanks in advance!
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Does anyone have any experience with this DAC vs an R2R design? I am in the market for a new DAC and have been eyeing the MHDT Pagoda. I have read all of the pages on this DAC and it seems like a tremendous value.
I have tube mono blocs in the high / mid section of my speakers that are bi amped. These are Prima Luna Dialogue 7 series with 4 x KT88, 2 x NOS 12AU7, and 2 x NOS 12AX7’s in each module.
I also have a pre amp that uses a pair of EML Mesh 300B’s and a pair of NOS 12AU7’s.
So, lots of tubes already in the system.
DSD in not a winner / loser for me, I do have have about 100 titles in my library.
Please let me thoughts / feedback - I plan on pulling the trigger in the next 60 days.
I also have an iFi galvanic device that is supposed to clean up the USB signal so do not think the clock upgrade is worth the $$.
Honestly thinking if I went this route will be probably all stock and I then I have my own tube stash to pick from.
Thanks in advance!
I have had multiple discrete R2R dacs in the past. A lampizator and a Halo Spring.
Does the Audio Paradise D2 beat them ? Not sure but it certainly doesn’t fall behind that I can think off.
I have upgraded my source USB cables and xlr cables and every time I changed something there was a decent improvement in refinement and detail of the sound.
I can safely say I am hearing much more detail then I heard with my previous dacs that cost over 6 times this one.
As for the clock upgrade you would definitely need it if using USB, reclocking takes place at every stage and you want the best clock nearest to the chip to do it.
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What chip do you have? I am leery of the ESS chip.
Thanks for responding!
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The original version of the MP-D2, which I owned until this past Christmas, was designed around the AKM 4490 chipset so when I sold the first version and bought the Mk III Deluxe I stuck with what had always worked in the AKM 4497. I suspect the ESS chipset on the removable boards was done to "cover all the bases." If you ask my guess is you will get recommended the most expensive option by the seller which would be the ESS.
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FWIW
after reading what the different chipsets were supposed to do. I ordered mine with the AKM but it was out of stock and Garry offered the ESS at no extra charge and I took that option.
I can tell you that the ESS sounds very full and warm. Definitely not a single hint of digital glare. It's quite lovely!
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What chip do you have? I am leery of the ESS chip.
Thanks for responding!
The ESS Sabre chip,as was recommended by Gary based on my setup.
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Hello All.
I am considering this DAC and love what I have read here so far. I do prefer a warmer/smooth sound hence the reason for a tube DAC. I am using a McIntosh MA6900 solid state Integrated amp (has a tube like sound) currently being fed by an Ayre Codex dac via XLR and I think i want to stick with XLR connections.
Anyway, I dont know much about the technicals but if I am using XLR (which I assume is better than RCA), I thought I read somewhere about voltage/gain considerations? Is there a specific type of Rectifier I must have or avoid? I'd like to try the Gold Lion 5AR4/U77 as I like that brand's sound which I have used in other amps but not as a rectifier. Anyone see issues or if I were to later go to RCA outs, would I need to change the Rectifier? I will stick with the stock output tubes initially and play it by ear (big pun) unless consensus is they must be replaced.
Also I read both that the Ess9038 is more bright and more warm than the AKM4497 which is confusing; any definitive answer? My Codex has a saber chip (ES9018K2M) in it now and for a solid state dac it sounds great (not as dark as the Rega i heard a few years ago that was about 1/2 the price). THen there's the new AKM I hear is coming or was as an option? how much better is that and should I wait?
And how much difference with the XLR MCAP upgrade will I notice? I hear it will be warmer/smoother so perhaps could that cancel out needing to upgrade the other tubes? I read the caps are lowest on the scale of noticeable upgrades. I am not the most discerning listener. I will be using a music streamer to feed the dac so I have no need for USB as for as I can tell.
Thanks
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Did you buy one?
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Just got my MP D2 MkIII Deluxe with mundorf capacitor upgrades, the crystal femto clock and the ESS DAC. Left the stock tubes in for initial listen. Really sounds great right out of the box. Prior DAC was Wyred 4 sound DAC 2 DSD. No contest, the MP is much better. Can only imagine what it will sound like when broken in and using upgraded tubes.
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I have been a happy owner of an MP-D2 Mk 3 with the ESS 9038PRO Module. A day or so back the USB output of the unit stopped working. If I feed it a signal through the coax input it works fine, but if I put a signal through the USB input I get nothing. I lifted the lid and there's a red light glowing on the DAC module itself. Is this a bad sign? Any thoughts on what might be going on here?
Thanks in advance
Michael
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Well thought it was time to jump in. I just got a MP D2 Deluxe with the AK4490 Chip. I let it burn in for a few days and have started some critical listening and some tube rolling as well. Thought I'd share my experiences.
I have been around audio for well over 50 years and have had lots of gear both tube and SS come through the doors. I do love the convenience of the digital format and now with streaming Tidal, the availability of an immense amount of music, much of it remastered and better in many regards than the first go at digital.
Ultimately though, I found that my Analog Rig was more satisfying (VPI Aries, Benz Wood, Art Audio Vinyl One). Rest of my gear is CJ LS17 Line Stage, Quicksilver Mid Mono Monoblocks, into Snell E.5 speakers that I have heavily modified with new drivers.
I'm happy to find that this DAC has gotten close to closing the gap between the 2 formats for me.
So onto the tubes. My observations.
The supplied 6H6 tubes are really quite good.
I tried some 70s Tesla 6DJ8 and they well dull in comparison.
Amperex 6DJ8 were very good, a bit more euphonic but with less drive and detail than the 6H6s
I just got some 12BH7 RCA Clear Tops today and so far these are my favourites. They retain the detail and dynamics of the 6H6 but are a bit more involving and at the same time less strident. Easier to listen too for extended periods of time .
I have a pair of the well regarded 1974 Reflector 6N23P SWGP NOS tubes on the way from Ukraine and look forward to hearing those.
The Supplied Rectifier tube really holds back the performance big time IMHO.
I bought a lot of 4 used 5U4GT tubes on ebay very cheap! Rectifier tubes last almost forever and are very sturdy so I have no qualms buying used as long as they tested OK
So far I tried 2 different 5U4GT tubes from this lot. The RCA (I actually got 3 of these), alll 3 of them sounded bigger, bolder, more detailed, and expansive and musical that the stock tube by a large margin. There were audible differences from tube to tube but those were subtle.
The 4th tube from this lot was a 5U4GT tube by Signet of Japan. This was probably a relabel of some Japanese manufacturer, perhaps Matsushita who bought the Mullard Tubing and produced some very under the radar tubes in the 70s. What a find. This tube's bass was a bit more wooly, very Mullard like, but the tone and natural timbres made this my favourite of this lot.
On it's way also recently purchased is a 5U4GT Black plate Tung_Sol and a larger ST shaped 5U4 labelled " Rogers" with black hanging plates. Also relatively cheap so looking forward to trying those. I wonder who made the Roger's tube?
Hope my experiences and tube rolling adventures are additive to all the posts on this forum for this wonderful sounding and super value DAC.
If you own this DAC and have not yet tried different tube, my advice would be to replace the rectifier tube first, the most cost effective upgrade for sure.
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I think many of us make the assumption that the DAC manufacturer - in the interest of optimizing audio quality - would go though a thorough test of different tubes before deciding on what to include with the DAC, to make it as competitive as possible. Your finding about the rectifier tube proves this to be a mistaken assumption. Thank you for sharing the results of your tube rolling!
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I haven't found a manufacturer yet in all my years in this hobby that included rectifier tubes that would hold a candle to the higher quality NOS ones from the 50's and 60's and Gary is no exception. He does however offer that as an option at the time of purchase and then you don't have to buy them on your own off of Ebay. Like many people alvinnir decided to source his own rather than buying the upgraded rectifier from Musical Paradise. I had a box full of them so I took the standard issue one too.
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I think the assumption that a producer of audio gear would supply the best possible tubes is not realistic. They need tubes that are both reliable and can be acquired in large quantities. Most audiophiles who own tube gear eventually find the sound can be improved and modified to their taste with aftermarket tubes. I've done this with virtually every piece of tube gear I've owned. In fact the only gear I ever bought that didn't come stock with current production tubes were my Quicksilver Monoblock power amps. That's because they are a small production company and they bought up a large quantity of 1970s vintage Tesla tubes for their gear.
If you will excuse the analogy, buying tube gear is a bit like buying a bicycle. The seat it comes with usually is usually very basic and not that comfortable. So you buy a new seat to suit your butt so you can have more comfort performance. Same with tubes :lol:
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I think the assumption that a producer of audio gear would supply the best possible tubes is not realistic.
I hear you. I wasn't suggesting that the manufacturer ought to include the best (i.e. expensive) tubes possible. I was referring to your having found some relatively cheap rectifier tubes on Ebay that didn't hold back the DAC's performance like the stock tubes do. It seems like the manufacturer, as part of his R&D would check into these kinds of options, maybe not to everyone's taste but certainly better than the tubes he chose as stock. Admittedly, as you said, it also comes down to quantities of tubes available, and the mass produced are never the best.
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Having for the most part sorted out some tube choices I just took the plunge and ordered new Capacitors. Garry feels the new V-Cap Odam is the best option these days so I ordered the 3.3 values. Should arrive in the not too distant future assuming a quick clear through Canada Customs. I have seen posts on the Mundorfs and others but not these V-Caps so far. Hope they are a worthwhile improvement for the $$$ spent.
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Anyone looking for a very good rectifier tube for your D2 Dac?
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174970.msg1845650#new
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Well I ended up picking up the MP-D2 MK3 that was recently listed in the marketplace and I've had it about a week. First time giving a tube DAC a try and most likely the nicest DAC I have used in my system. I do miss the display screen of my M500, but that's about the only thing I found it had over this unit.
It looks pretty self explanatory but are there any instructions on how you swap out the capacitors if you want to try something different? Also I saw some mentions of the ability to raise the tubes up so you do have to pop the top every time you want to change them. Sorry if I missed a link to what to use.
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the riser is for bottle shaped rectifier tubes that won't fit through the hole.
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Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
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Questions for owners. I've noticed that occasionally when I turn my unit on the DSD-ON will blink green and then nothing. When I hit the button to change inputs nothing happens. I end up having to turn the unit on and off a few times before it seems to connect with my streamer (Aries Mini) and the USB light turns green.
When I emailed Garry he said to always make sure to turn the unit on before the streamer, but this is not possible since the Aries is always on. He also suggested maybe updating the firmware to the latest version, but I'm not sure how to check what one I have. Any help would be great. Thanks.
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Just checking and pulled the trigger on some VCAP ODAM capacitors that Garry recommended. Also have a Sophie Electric rectifier tube coming as well.
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hello, do you have a schematic for the original mp-md2 or know where i can get a copy?
if so can you send me a copy to mboldda1@sbcglobal.net ?
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Any ideas on the compatibility of the 7308 version of the 6DJ8/6922 family with a MK 3 edition? I have amassed quite a stash of these as well as 6922s but just want to be certain since I am under the assumption that a 7308 might be a 7 volt version..Please correct me accordingly if needed and better yet if anyone has tried these 7308s and their perceived results sound wise. Thanx! Mooncrikit
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don't know how it compares but 7dj8"s work.
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7308 is from the same family as 6DJ9 and 6922.
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So then the initial two consensus is indeed, the 7308s will perform as needed without any issues with voltage, etc. ...Thanx for the input fellas...
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So then the initial two consensus is indeed, the 7308s will perform as needed without any issues with voltage, etc. ...Thanx for the input fellas...
6DJ8, 6922, and 7308 tubes are all of the same family, and should be interchangeable (haven't heard of 6DJ9's before - Maybe a typo?)
I've personally swapped them around in my current preamp and previous phono preamp.
From what I remember the only really difference is that the 7308 was generally used for military purposes so they were held to higher tolerances and purer materials - There of course may be other differences as well, but the voltages should be near, if not identical.
I believe the 7DJ8 has a slightly different plate voltage, but some people have reported (also on this thread) that they work fine as a replacement.
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Yes a typo
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Any of you ever use a bel canto dac? I have an old 1.3 I might just want to switch out. It does great, but I’m a big fan of MP gear.