How to use the Squeezebox Touch to play DSD files on a DoP compatible DAC

Russtafarian · « **Reply #60 on:** 26 Sep 2013, 04:05 pm »

I've successfully used both USB and coax between the SBT/EDO and Benchmark DAC2 to play DoP files. Coax is preferred because I connect a PC to the DAC2's USB input.

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On that note, would you mind sharing if you use the USB 2.0 port on the DAC2?

Yes. USB 1.1, the DAC2's default mode, is limited to 24/96. When using the DAC2's USB input for SBT/EDO, or any file playback beyond 24/96, the DAC2 must be switched to USB 2.0 mode. Windows PCs require a Benchmark USB 2.0 driver.

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Is the SBT a USB 2.0 device?

I don't know for certain but I would guess that it is since it is capable of sending up to 24/192 to a USB DAC.

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Do you need to use a USB hub like I have read elsewhere?

I don't need a USB hub for my SBT/EDO to DAC2 setup.

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Lastly, can you tell me the order in which you connect the devices? I have tried using USB with the DAC2 and EDO, but that always resulted in the SBT hanging.

I didn't pay much attention to this since the connection worked the first time I tried it.

Russ

Guidof · « **Reply #61 on:** 5 Oct 2013, 12:33 am »

Quote from: Hammer on 24 Sep 2013, 02:42 am

Hi, I followed the great instructions in this thread to convert a few of my DSD DFF files to DoP using foobar. I have a SBT with EDO feeding a Benchmark DAC2 via COAX. The files play fine 75% of the time and sounds great, but every now and then, the current song will stop playing and a few seconds later, the next track will play. The error I see on the SBT is "Connection reset by Server."

It's interesting that the same song might skip some of the time, but not all (eg., it will play fine in its entirety). This leads me to believe that the song file is okay, but something else is making it skip. I am using the LMS version 7.7. At first, I thought it might be a bandwidth issue, but I also have some 24/192 files and those all play fine and never skip. So, it seems like it's a DoP issue. From the prior posts, it sounds like 24/192 files require more throughput and when I compare a 24/192 file and DoP file of the same song, I do see that the 24/192 version is larger. So, it doesn't appear to be a throughput issue via the COAX.

I've not tried a USB connection since I noticed this problem, but when I first got the DAC2, I first tried to connect the SBT to it via USB, but wasn't able to get it to work, so I just used the COAX which works fine up to 24/192.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Hammer.

I don't have this problem playing DoP encoded tracks on my benchmark DAC2 via coaxial. Perhaps this suggests a network issue is involved. Is your SBT hardwired or wireless? What version of LMS are you running?

I tried USB earlier on and found that occasionally the Benchmark refused to lock on to DSD, but that was a different problem from the one you are having.

Best regards,

Guido F.

Hammer · « **Reply #62 on:** 6 Oct 2013, 08:05 pm »

Hi, I was finally able to get USB to work with my Benchmark DAC2. It doesn't sound like others had this issue, but I had to switch the DAC2 to USB 2.0 and change the buffer to Very Large under EDO. Otherwise, whenever I change the output of the SBT to USB, it would just keep rebooting. In addition, I do not need to use a USB hub to get this to work. Hopefully, I was the only one who had issues, but if others did as well, maybe this will be helpful.

Enjoy!

Hammer · « **Reply #63 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 02:07 am »

Upon further testing with the USB connection, I find that if I switch between playing files of different resolutions, the music eventually gets garbled. This does not happen when I use the coax connection. Anyone else experience this?

Russtafarian · « **Reply #64 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 06:01 pm »

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I had to switch the DAC2 to USB 2.0

This is an important point, especially for Benchmark DAC2 users. For the DoP process to work, the DAC (any DAC) must be operating in USB 2.0 mode.

For Benchmark DAC2 users, the default setting out of the box is USB 1.1. The DAC2 must be manually switched to USB 2.0 mode to receive 24/176, 24/192 or DSD files. For Windows users, the Benchmark USB 2.0 driver must be installed and selected in the software program. The driver will only install properly if the DAC2 is in USB2.0 mode.

Once it's set, it works fine. But more than one DAC2 user (including this one) has been tripped up by the USB 1.1 vs. 2.0 switch during setup.

Russ

Guidof · « **Reply #65 on:** 7 Oct 2013, 10:18 pm »

Quote from: Hammer on 7 Oct 2013, 02:07 am

Upon further testing with the USB connection, I find that if I switch between playing files of different resolutions, the music eventually gets garbled. This does not happen when I use the coax connection. Anyone else experience this?

Yes, I had the same problem. To avoid the hassle, I switched to coax which works flawlessly and sounds great.

Regards,

Guido F.

Hammer · « **Reply #66 on:** 8 Oct 2013, 02:22 am »

Quote from: Russtafarian on 7 Oct 2013, 06:01 pm

This is an important point, especially for Benchmark DAC2 users. For the DoP process to work, the DAC (any DAC) must be operating in USB 2.0 mode.

For Benchmark DAC2 users, the default setting out of the box is USB 1.1. The DAC2 must be manually switched to USB 2.0 mode to receive 24/176, 24/192 or DSD files. For Windows users, the Benchmark USB 2.0 driver must be installed and selected in the software program. The driver will only install properly if the DAC2 is in USB2.0 mode.

Once it's set, it works fine. But more than one DAC2 user (including this one) has been tripped up by the USB 1.1 vs. 2.0 switch during setup.

Russ

Russ, yes, I have my DAC2 set to USB 2.0. And actually when I didn't I couldn't even get the SBT to boot properly with USB out enabled in EDO.

And so with the DAC2 set to USB 2.0, I'm having the issue I described where if I switch tracks of different resolutions, the music gets garbled as if the USB connection gets out of sync or something...I also tried with and without a USB hub between the SBT and the DAC2 and same problem.

Any ideas? I guess using COAX is not the end of the world...

Guidof · « **Reply #67 on:** 10 Oct 2013, 08:08 pm »

Coax works very well, and in my system it sounds indistinguishable from USB.

Regards,

Guido F.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #68 on:** 11 Oct 2013, 05:13 pm »

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And so with the DAC2 set to USB 2.0, I'm having the issue I described where if I switch tracks of different resolutions, the music gets garbled as if the USB connection gets out of sync or something...I also tried with and without a USB hub between the SBT and the DAC2 and same problem.

I've tried to replicate your issue in my setup, SBT>USB>DAC2, playing and switching between DoP-DSD and PCM tracks at various sampling rates. I haven't hear it either before or after the latest LMS/SBT update and EDO reinstall. I wish I had a better answer for you.

Russ

Hammer · « **Reply #69 on:** 11 Oct 2013, 11:28 pm »

Russ, thank you for following up. I wonder why...maybe you have a later revision of the DAC2? Can you tell me the manufacture date? Thanks, Henry

holzohr · « **Reply #70 on:** 1 Nov 2013, 05:09 pm »

Hello again,
I found this thread on the slimdevices forum http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99132-Call-for-testers!-Daphile
I must say: Wow! Now I am not afraid anymore that day when my SBT will be broken.

As far as I have understood, Daphile works like a kind of "embedded system". It's based on Gentoo Linux. The installation itself is very easy. No need to have skills in Linux. At first I have installed it on an old Asus Eee PC 1101HA but that' s too weak or whatever for streaming DSD and PCM Hi-Res. There were even hiccups with 44,1kHz sometimes. I remembered when I was using this Asus netbook for streaming music to my former Asus Xonar Essence One DAC two years ago, already there were hiccups. And me was blaming the Xonar, its driver! Forgive me

Well, yesterday I tried it with a Lenovo ThinkPad Edge E325. With Daphile running "live" from the USB stick. It rocked! No hiccups anymore! And today, it is already running for 6-7 hours. Very stable so far.

You can control Daphile via the web interface and using the well known Android & iOS apps for the Squeezeserver.

web interface snapshots

I think I will give it a try for serious use when I find a nice looking mini-pc/nettop.
This Daphile is (imho) an alternative for people who don`t own a SBT (anymore) or want to play DSD64 & DSD128 files (even native without the DoP converting before) or want to enjoy the hotplug between USB DAC and the Daphile system or in general for everyone who has problems to connect the SBT with its USB DAC.

Regards,
Mario

http://www.daphile.com/#overview

JonD · « **Reply #71 on:** 4 Nov 2013, 01:10 am »

hi This is my first post - just joined because there are so many smart members here....

Thanks for introducing me to the next level of $$$$$.... I didn't know there was a next level until I read all this stuff about DSD
I downloaded a DSDiff file from Blue Coast Records to test, and converted to a FLAC format via Foobar and also JRiver as per your very helpful instructions..
Both formats play fine on my PC
However I cannot get my Squeezebox Touch to play this, despite installing the "Enhanced Digital Output" (EDO) app which allows 24/192 streaming.
I have an early model Cambridge Audio Dacmagic (24/96) - will this work?
Question - if the SBT has it's own onboard DAC now enhanced to 24/192 via the EDO, why do I need to use an external DAC?

If I do, then I will purchase one, although not right away.

Many thanks

Jon

holzohr · « **Reply #72 on:** 5 Nov 2013, 09:35 pm »

Hello Jon,
the EDO app lets the SBT pass on 176.4 and 192kHz PCM to an extern DAC via coax or USB. It doesn't enhance the internal DAC of the Touch. I guess you have converted the DSD files to 24bit/176.4kHz FLAC. You need to convert it to 88.2kHz for the Touch DAC. The DAC Magic won`t help you here. I had that DAC, too. It doesn`t make sense as a DAC for the Touch.

JoshK · « **Reply #73 on:** 6 Nov 2013, 12:03 am »

Total newbie in this area. Can you rip the audio tracks from Blu-ray concert videos? I have a number that I'd like to rip.

holzohr · « **Reply #74 on:** 6 Nov 2013, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 6 Nov 2013, 12:03 am

Can you rip the audio tracks from Blu-ray concert videos?

Yes!

Not sure if it already was described somewhere in this HiRez Circle. For ripping I start the "fox" and extract the audio track with tsMuxeR (or MeGUI). To split into single tracks I use the CD Wave Editor.

JonD · « **Reply #75 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 04:20 am »

Many thanks Hozohr: Yes, I converted them via foobar to an embedded flac file as detailed earlier in this post (whatever resolution that ends up as). So if I replace the DacMagic with a AudioEngine D1 which is rated at up to 24/192 then will that work?
http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioengine-d1-24-bit-dac

holzohr · « **Reply #76 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 12:15 pm »

Ah ok, you have created DoP files! You still need a DoP ready DAC. Please check Ted's DSD Database https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0 for a suitable DAC (some of these DACs even accept DoP via the digital input) and also here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqiK6WHnz5FHdEtlalVRb29pX3N2WXhfMlAzNmFMZnc#gid=0 if the DAC is compatible to the SBT (via USB).

With the Audioengine D1 you can not play these DoP files. I am not sure now if the SBT (with the EDO app) can give out 24/192kHz via the optical output or if that's possible via coax (and USB) only.

bprice2 · « **Reply #77 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 04:33 pm »

JonD,

For $150 plus shipping you can purchase a Schiit Loki that you can use to convert DSD files. It has a pass-thru that will allow you to hook it up to your current PCM DAC and at the push of button you can listen to either PCM or DSD files. This is probably the most inexpensive way to convert those DoP files.

I have one on order for a desktop system. When I get it next week or so, I'll let you know how it works with the Touch.

Brett

ted_b · « **Reply #78 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 04:41 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 7 Nov 2013, 04:33 pm

JonD,

For $150 plus shipping you can purchase a Schiit Loki that you can use to convert DSD files. It has a pass-thru that will allow you to hook it up to your current PCM DAC and at the push of button you can listen to either PCM or DSD files. This is probably the most inexpensive way to convert those DoP files.

I have one on order for a desktop system. When I get it next week or so, I'll let you know how it works with the Touch.

Brett

Brett,
Please explain the "push of a button" to play either DSD or PCM. You have two servers? Otherwise you need to change device/DAC drivers in your player (Jriver, etc) since your PCM DAC and your Loki cannot share drivers. I brought these logistics up on the DSD DAC thread but no one seemed to care. Schiit is very vague about the passthrough. It's just an analog in, period. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

bprice2 · « **Reply #79 on:** 7 Nov 2013, 05:37 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 7 Nov 2013, 04:41 pm

Brett,
Please explain the "push of a button" to play either DSD or PCM. You have two servers? Otherwise you need to change device/DAC drivers in your player (Jriver, etc) since your PCM DAC and your Loki cannot share drivers. I brought these logistics up on the DSD DAC thread but no one seemed to care. Schiit is very vague about the passthrough. It's just an analog in, period. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ted,

I honestly do not know. I'm just going by what's been advertised.

I think the following is a response from the thread you mentioned.

Quote from: schiit;253396

Hey all,

A couple of things. First, the above: sorry, edited this on the site to be more accurate. It now reads:

To be totally clear, Loki does absolutely nothing to the output of your current DAC--it is simply a passive switcher. RCA inputs, PCB traces, and a switch are all that's in the signal path if you're using the passthrough.

And yep, there are definitely active filters on there--it's just the opamps are really, really tiny, since they are MSOP packages. If you're looking only at the front of the board, you won't see 90% of what's going on--take a look at the back of the board at schiit.com/products/loki

As far as managing two USB connections, Loki has a different USB device ID and reports as a different device than even the standard Schiit USB interface, so it's usually easy to switch between them using your playback software.

Let us know if you have more questions, and I'll see if I can clear them up.

All the best,

Jason Stoddard
Co-Founder
Schiit Audio

It would seem that the bold and underlined is an admission by Schiit of your concern.