[Johnzy]

Hi All

I wanted to alert users to the following threads on quadraphonicquad.com

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?15976-Reality-Technologies-New-surround-technology

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?17227-QQ-Official-Test-of-the-Involve-Audio-Surround-Master-SM-465

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?17161-Reality-Technologies-Surround-Master-2013-Owners-Thread

To avoid confusion i can inform members  the company has changed its name from Reality Technologies to Involve Audio

I hope to post further information to members of AudioCircle in coming weeks which I trust will be helpful and informative.

[JohnR]

Hi Dawson, welcome to AC. This is the unit under discussion here: http://www.involveaudio.com/products/surround-master ?

[Johnzy]

Yes this is the Unit under review.http://www.audiocircle.com/Smileys/audiocircle/icon_biggrin.gif

I should also come clean and tell members I am the CEO of Involve Audio.

I am hoping members of the forum will see fit to get a unit at some time in the future and I very much look forward to hearing what they think. I can say that to-date everyone who has a unit has loved it.

Just to be clear, (because someone recently asked me) the unit plugs into 2, 4, 4.1 or 5.1 channel amp through RCA's.

I will happily answer any questions any forum members have so please feel free to ask.




   

[Johnzy]

Involve Audio technical people come from an electrostatic background and in the past have produced some truly outstanding product. We have recently introduced low cost electrostatic panels to the DIY market and for companies wishing to produced superior, lower cost electrostatic speakers. A kit containing all the requirements for a DIY electrostatic has been released by the company and for a short time is available in a metal carry case at no additional cost. They are available at www.involveaudio.comIncluded in the kit are 2 Panels (we call them Sonic Panels), step up electronics, power and power supplies.  I have attached a picture of the kit contents.

Sonic Panels have been released in one speaker which is called the Sonic Blades from Liquid Base. These speakers feature the Sonic Panels surrounded and supported by glass. They give a truly vibrant sound which is best supported with a really good sub. I note that the WAG's like them as they look great with modern decor'.






 

[jimdgoulding]

Best wishes, Johnzy.  A previous owner of full range electrostats, it might be what I am listening to today but for one of them biting the dust and the manufacturer out of business.  No worries, tho.  Let's hear more.

[Johnzy]

Hi Jimgolding

What would you like to know? The web site http://www.involveaudio.com/pages/sonic-panels has most relevant information but if you have any specific question I would only to happy to answer.

The Panels are actually plastic which helps reduce the cost. They can be made in practically any size and shape but of course the smaller they get the more limited their performance. The immutable laws of physics still apply! We choose this current panel size 440mm*168mm because we can get outstanding performance but still within a size that can be incorporated with bookshelf or floor standing speakers.

As a side note I am sorry we do not have any more HA1500 speakers for sale to replace your dead electo's. We believe they were the best electrostatic speakers ever made. They incorporated some outstanding design features and technology but were VERY expensive to build. Originally designed for Nakamichi they were never really available to the general public and we sold the only 200 ever made to friends and associates - in fact the last 5 sets were sold over the last month and practically all of them in Australia. I hope one day to build the same speaker but modified to make it less expensive at manufacturer. If a set of these do come to our attention I will let you know. I GUARANTEE you will love them.

What we do have available are the Sonic Blades and these I can sell for $US1550 plus freight for any member of the forum interested. They have both our Sonic Panels in them and an 8" cone incorporated in the base. They look great and perform very well but again I believe to get the best out of them they need a good sub to accompany them.

Thanks for the interest
 

[SteveFord]

Welcome.
I added you to the list of manufacturers in the Planar Circle.

[Johnzy]

Thanks Steve 

[Rocket_Ronny]

Hi John:

Can you share more about the electrostatic panel? For instance, where have you decided to cross it over in your Sonic Blades?

I seen the Blades quite some time ago and liked the look. Having owned larger electrostatics I have to question what kind of spl, dynamics and impact one could get out of such a small panel. Even Martin Logan's entry esl must have 5-10 times the surface area. I also did not see an eff. rating for the Blades, same as the panel at 88 db/ 4 ohm? Do they come with the nice face plate as used in the Blade? Can you use more than one in a single speaker, if so how is that done?

Would love to see a diy panel that was as tall as what Martin Logan or Sanders have in their speakers.

Thanks,

Rocket_Ronny

[Johnzy]

Hi Rocket Rodney
The electrostatic panel has a crossover frequency of 250Hz.
The panels and the sonic blades are 88 dB/ Watt.
The kit units are supplied in a wooden picture frame. You can simply parallel panels but for more than two, I would recommend a larger step up transformer.

[chucky3042]

Hi

I am the Chief Technical Officer (CTO) of Involve Audio P/L and if any one have any technical questions regarding any of our technologies I would be pleased to answer that.

But first good news and bad news!

The bad first:

We only have one panel kit left and it will be perhaps 6 months before we can make the replacements as we are investigating some new improved manufacturing techniques.

The good news:

Long story. Back in 2007 when most of our technical personnel were employed with Immersion PLC we designed for Nakamichi what was to be a 25 anniversary of their legendary “Dragon” series but in the form of an electrostatic hybrid loudspeaker. The design was a 2007 design award nominee for the CES under home theatre innovation.
(Look up Nakamichi Phoenix -initial name- electrostatic speaker on google).

Due to the GFC, totally incompetent management in Immersion PLC (now solo oil) Nakamichi’s parent company had major financial losses and we refused to lower our price by $100 – consequently the model was dropped, our stupid management thought we could sell the thing by re-branding it to “whise”. no one wanted to know about an unknown brand, Immersion closed down, I started Involve Audio and purchased all the old stock and slowly sold them all (approx 140 sets) – so I thought.

Turns out 5 sets were still  a store house in Holland and 14 sets were stolen by a former staff member and then purchased as a batch but another person who contacted me to buy back our stolen property – I did!

True story believe it or not.

So in summary we now have available 15 sets of these rare electrostatic speakers (3 sets sold in the last 2 weeks). For more information please go to:

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/44690-this-speaker-deserves-fame-and-fortune-nakamichi-dragon-electrostatic/

 Prices are:
Whise 1500 very slight mark or imperfections $4000
Whise 1500 perfect condition $4500 cash
Nakamichi slight mark or imperfection $5000
Nakamichi perfect $6000
 I think they will all be gone within 3 months.

Regards

Charlie

[AJinFLA]

Guess I missed this, but the "Quad" processor sounds interesting (if it's nothing like the old stuff). I'm slowly sifting through the links above, but what became of the forum member possibly auditioning, etc?
Thanks!

cheers,

AJ

[chucky3042]

Hi AJinFLA

I am not sure what happened to an offer from a forum member to review our Surround Master product either.

We are happy to provide samples for review (return 30 day basis) so do we hear any volunteers?

Regards

Chucky

[chucky3042]

Me again

Please note for quick sale (I need to finance our technology developments www.involveaudio.com) I have reduced the prices for the Nakamichi/ Whise speakers.

FINALLY I have had the time to fully unpack and inspect the stock and below is my summary. You will note 16 units are listed but 5 are already committed to customers subject to them paying up!

Also the plot thickens on how these units were removed (stolen) from our stock. We noted that in a bunch of the boxes from the original stock re re acquired a few years ago many of the really well packaged (clean/ new/ not damaged cartons) we just had a lot of old factory junk in them. All of this "misappropriated" batch of 14 units have been put into very poor condition packaging's. I think the person concerned snuck out the good stock by putting them into scungy packing boxes, claiming it to be junk!

Here is the summary:

6        Whise 1500 very slight mark or imperfections       $3400 cash

4        Whise 1500 perfect condition                                $3700 cash

4        Nakamichi slight mark or imperfection                   $3990 cash

2        Nakamichi perfect                                                  $4990

Regards


Chucky

[JohnR]

Hi Charlie, attempting to "decode" some of those QQ forum threads by someone not versed in surround sound, then or now...  do I have it correct that you would consider the optimum usage of the Surround Master to be stereo in and four channels out? If you happen to have a Quadrasonic recording then it will "decode" correctly, but for a normal stereo recording the effect will be... what?

Furthermore, you say that Dolby 5.1 is actually better when downmixed to a stereo signal and then passed through the SurroundMaster to generate 4-ch output?

Finally, how does the 4/4.1/5/5.1 output work? By which I mean, are all six outputs active all the time, or does the unit detect which outputs have a cable connected to them? I couldn't find any mention of how the different output modes are selected...

Finally (again!) is the ".1" output the summed lowpassed signal from the 4 or 5 channels or is it something different?

[chucky3042]

Hi JohnR

Thanks for the questions.

do I have it correct that you would consider the optimum usage of the Surround Master to be stereo in and four channels out?
The surround Master is intended for users who want to get a very convincing surround from most of the commonly available stereo format sources. It is up to the user if they want to listen to it on either:

1    TSS mode - stereo in/ 2 channel surround virtualiser output
2    4 Channel mode. The user has the "old" style quadraphonic setup of 4 speaker
3    5.1 Mode. The user has the more recent "Dolby/ DTS" style configuration

Personally I prefer the older style 4 channel mode as I do not like the center channel being under the TV screen (as in Dolby 5.1), it is disconcerting to me looking at a voice coming from center screen but hearing the voice under the screen!


 If you happen to have a Quadrasonic recording then it will "decode" correctly, but for a normal stereo recording the effect will be... what?

We claim that the Surround Master has the most "universal" decode abilities of any decoder available. We can often decode better than the original format decoders such as QS, RM, Vector4, Dolby PL2, Qsound, dummy head recordings etc. We are less successful on SQ but still produce a good surround. We claim we get the best "decode" of conventional stereo recordings from any system to date.

For stereo recordings the surround decode can be a bit hit and miss but judging by all the reviewers to date the vast majority of recordings produce a surround that is vastly preferable to the original stereo recording. I personally have never really liked surround sound coming from a stereo purist background. When Dolby and others released the 51 format I enthusiastically purchased my setup and shortly afterwards sold it in disappointment! It destroyed the stereo image with minimal useful surround effects. I find the Surround Master actually enhances the image and clarity and really puts you in the center of the action. For say 90% of recordings I now prefer listening to on the Surround Master, the remainder 10% I am undecided!

Furthermore, you say that Dolby 5.1 is actually better when downmixed to a stereo signal and then passed through the SurroundMaster to generate 4-ch output?

I know this sound a bold claim but in a well conducted internal study we did a few years ago on a trial group of 11 (small sample I agree) we got the following results of preferences

Involve:      5
No Preference:   4
Discreet:      2

In each case where Involve was picked as the preference, the results point to either an increase in the sound richness or fullness, and better distinction of surround sound elements. The subjects who preferred discreet had a different reason to each other.

If the forum request I am happy to publish this and a bundle of other tests/ reports we have conducted.

We claim this increased preference to INVOLVE encoding/ decoding of discrete recording to be because we tend to extract additional surround information that is sometimes missed by the studio recording engineers but was captured by the microphones.

Either way it is very difficult to here any difference between material encoded/ decoded via INVOLVE and discrete.


Finally, how does the 4/4.1/5/5.1 output work? By which I mean, are all six outputs active all the time, or does the unit detect which outputs have a cable connected to them? I couldn't find any mention of how the different output modes are selected...

Internally the unit has dual DSP processors and all of the mentioned output formats are available via the RCA connectors on the rear panel simultaneously.


Finally (again!) is the ".1" output the summed lowpassed signal from the 4 or 5 channels or is it something different?

YES


I hope that assists, if the forum wants/ or does not object I am happy to provide some reports and test data.

Regards

Chucky

[JohnR]

Finally, how does the 4/4.1/5/5.1 output work? By which I mean, are all six outputs active all the time, or does the unit detect which outputs have a cable connected to them? I couldn't find any mention of how the different output modes are selected...

Internally the unit has dual DSP processors and all of the mentioned output formats are available via the RCA connectors on the rear panel simultaneously.

Finally (again!) is the ".1" output the summed lowpassed signal from the 4 or 5 channels or is it something different?

YES

Hi Charlie, I'm afraid I still don't get it then... if the .1 is the summed lowpassed outputs, then the other 4 or 5 outputs are highpassed also? In which case, if you don't connect a sub then you are losing low-frequency information? Or are the 4/5 main outputs not highpassed at all on the assumption that if you connect a sub it's because your mains are naturally rolling off...?

Similar thing with the 4-ch vs 5-ch output. If the center channel signal is always generated, then if you don't connect a center speaker won't something be missing?

I feel like I must be thinking about this the wrong way... 

[chucky3042]

Hi JohnR

The best mark I ever got in English was a bare pass but here goes......

The Sub out is a summated low pass filter with a cut out frequency of 80 Hz.

All the other outputs are FULL RANGE 20 - 20 kHz.

Regards

Chucky

[JohnR]

Hi Charlie, thank you, I get it now

[chucky3042]

Hi All

Please note that due to popular request on another forum "quadraphonicquad.com", we will be releasing in a week time a special edition INVOLVE Surround Master that is switchable from INVOLVE/ QS/ SQ format encodes.

For those who have records in the SQ format and did not possess a Tate decoder this will enable full surround as it was intended. For more information please visit:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?17525-INVOLVE-SQ-IS-COMING

Regards

Chucky