[Steve]

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/tubes/

Cheers.

[JakeJ]

Hmm...interesting.  A might pricey but that seems to be the way these days.

[Captainhemo]

Hmm...interesting.  A might pricey but that seems to be the way these days.

Yeah, especailly when they throw on an extra $65 to ship to Canada  , good grief

That aside,  it is still interesting.   Wonder if Telefinken is  really making any design/engineering changes to these or if they are just rebranded JJ's .....

-jay

[Ericus Rex]

Need more info!

I do miss the white lettering which makes that awesome emblem pop out.

[FullRangeMan]

Seems goods news at first glance, but its obvious this is a rebranded operation for a famous Boutique name.

[Steve]

Can quality of materials be quantified without testing?
Do we destroy a name before it is even tested?

Cheers

[Captainhemo]

I sent them (Telefunken ) an email the other day,    here is the response I received from them ( original  inquiery below).  I'm not pursuing these tubes any futher,  I can buy the stock JJ's for 1/2 - 2/3 the price and if I want them Cryo'd, I can get them from vendors for about the same price.  Just my $.02 of course

"Captain,
Thanks for the email and the information.  The Black Diamond Series tubes are built in the JJ factory in Eastern Europe based on their existing models.
These tubes have gone through a multi-tier testing and quality control process here in the USA to ensure they are the best representation of European made tubes for the MI industry.

In addition, the cryogenic process plays a key role in treating and strengthening the tubes internal metal construction. The results are tubes with superior
durability and stability. Preamp tubes offer expanded dynamics and a richer tone, while the power tubes are stable and pure. We are guaranteeing this by branding them with the diamond logo.

If you are interested in trying them we can honor a money back guarantee within 7 days if you are not pleased with the tube.
--
Alan Veniscofsky
TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik
300 Pleasant Valley Road Suite E
South Windsor, CT 06074

http://www.t-funk.com <http://www.t-funk.com
http://www.facebook.com/TelefunkenElektroakustik
https://soundcloud.com/telefunken-elektroakustik
http://www.youtube.com/user/TELEFUNKENfilms

From: captainhemo
Subject: T-Funk Microphone/Product Information

I've looked at the new Black Diamond  EL34 TK's on the website.   I see they are  made on  JJ's production line   and am wondering   if you can shed some light on what  is different from the standard JJ EL34 / E34L tubes which can be had for  close to 50% less than the  list price of the  EL34 Tk's.
Given the high rate of failures and quality control issues in  the  earlier JJ EL34/6CA7/KT77 runs ( there still seems to be a lot of people who are pretty gun shy) I think the above is a valid question.  I've spoken with a few people who are already feeling that the  new Telefunken Black Diamnond's are  just relabeled JJ's

It would sure be nice to see a current production tube with longevity and sound quality of what used to be readily available

Thanks

-jay

Note, the edit was just to remove Alan's and my personal contact info which I realized I shouldn't have pasted

[newzooreview]

\ I'm not pursuing these tubes any futher,  I can buy the stock JJ's for 1/2 - 2/3 the price and if I want them Cryo'd, I can get them from vendors for about the same price.  Just my $.02 of course

Your comments don't make any sense. You say that you can get JJ branded tubes, cryo treated, "from vendors for about the same price." And in your original e-mail to Telefunken in CT you also note that JJ tubes have poor quality control.

Telefunken is saying that they perform multiple tests and cherry pick the best tubes from what they get from JJ, and they cryo treat them. So for the same price for the cryo treated tubes you refer to, Telefunken is giving you cryo + the in-house quality control that you say the stock JJ tubes are missing. That makes perfect sense. You may or may not like the sound of the tubes, but the cost certainly reflects the work involved by Telefunken beyond just rebranding the tube from JJ.

[Captainhemo]

No,  if you read my  post again (I'll read it again as well to make sure I haven't  said this wrong) , I said I can get the JJ tubes for 1/2 - 2/3 the price of the Telefunken tubes, and  if I want those  JJ's cryo'd,  there are vendors  out there selling them for about   this same price .  Guess I wasn't  clear...

EDIT
Also,  I said that the  high failure rates and QC issues  had been in the past,  didn't say anything about    that being the case now.  I was just  bringing it to light with them  and  was wondering if they had addressed it.

-jay

[Jon L]

Telefunken is saying that they perform multiple tests and cherry pick the best tubes from what they get from JJ, and they cryo treat them.

I sure wish somebody would do the same for Ei EL84 and Svetlana 300B tubes.  When functioning, those tubes were fabulous-sounding. 

[newzooreview]

I sure wish somebody would do the same for Ei EL84 and Svetlana 300B tubes.  When functioning, those tubes were fabulous-sounding.

Yeah, a lot of new production has almost zero quality control. I bought some Psvane EL34 tubes, (two quads, the regular ones and the expensive reproduction Philips Holland versions). Both sets had tubes that shorted out and tripped the over voltage on my amplifier. Not a lot of fun to hear those sounds crackling through my new Harbeths! The testing that their branch office in Canada does (under the name Grant Fidelity) is just to check the signal strength coming through the tube. They don't do any sort of burning in or stability checking.

Cryoset apparently does post-production quality control with the Genalex 12AX7 pre-amp tubes that they sell as "Super Cryo." That's one of the few tubes on their site for which they claim special inspection (text below). Even if it doubled the cost of the tube (as it appears to do with the JJ tubes that Telefunken is selling) it would likely be less than NOS and get us some reliable and reliably nice sounding tubes without mining the dwindling supply of what was made half a century ago.

These Gold Lion ECC83 / B759 12AX7 Gold Pin are hand selected matched tubes. After the selection process they go though a series of cryogenic processes (multiple cycles) that improves their performance even more than the normal single stage cryo treatment.

The best of the best....

After the cryo treatments the tubes are given a 24 hour burn-in, verified and matched on the Maxi Preamp Digital Tube Analyzer.

[Jon L]

Cryoset apparently does post-production quality control with the Genalex 12AX7 pre-amp tubes that they sell as "Super Cryo." That's one of the few tubes on their site for which they claim special inspection (text below). Even if it doubled the cost of the tube (as it appears to do with the JJ tubes that Telefunken is selling) it would likely be less than NOS and get us some reliable and reliably nice sounding tubes without mining the dwindling supply of what was made half a century ago.

Cryoset says they do a "24 Hour" burn-in testing, which is not enough.  None of the Ei EL84 or Svetlana 300B tubes I have tried (and I tried many) failed within 24 hours.  Usually they fail within some weeks or months, i.e. Ei EL84 usually developing crackling and Svetlana 300B developing internal shorts manifesting as half the filaments going dark.  I personally would pay double (heck, triple) their original prices if they were guaranteed to last. 

[Ericus Rex]

I remember seeing some ebay sellers from China guaranteeing their tubes for a year (or was it 6 months?).  I don't remember if the tubes were BTs or Canada Fullers but if they're still doing that for those higher priced tubes it would be worth it IMO.

Any mention of a warranty from Telefunken?

[fredgarvin]

JJ's from Eurotubes are my go to's in my guitar amps. They sound better than the various Chinese tubes. No problems with any of them.

[Steve]

I just got a pair of new production Telefunken E88cc tubes in. Running them for two days now.

Bass has a little better control than JJ brand, which opens up the mid and highs. Also a little more natural. Won't necessarily
show up on every song, but the better recordings.

Noise is dead quiet, good for phono stages.

Beats the Bugleboys (I have approx 2 dozen of them, PQs too).

I order low noise JJ versions, and with much lower noise, obviously
different materials are used. The glass is also slightly different size.

Anyway, the tube just "sounds" a little more realistic, cleaner, that last bit of realism.
 
This tube "sounds" near perfect, if not perfect.
If it lasts like the JJs do, approx. 26,000 hours,

This is one heck of a tube.

Cheers

[JakeJ]

Thanks for your input, Steve.  Keep us posted on how these run in and how well they last.

[char1]

Hi Jake,

Purchased two 6922 tubes from Telefunken and within 24 hours 1 tube failed. I am sending the pair back....however I have heard that this is not an anomaly when it comes to tube failure with the 6922's. Something is wrong at Telefunken. I really want these guys to succeed but they have to fix an engineering problem with their tubes.

[JakeJ]

Hi char1 and welcome to AC!

You are aware that the new production Telefunken tubes are actually rebranded JJ tubes from Slovakia, correct?  It is my hope that Telefunken can a) get the quality of the original Telefunken tubes from JJ, b) then test and cull those tubes to maintain a standard not seen since the heyday of vacuum tube production, and c) create such a high standard as to hold all other tube manufacturers to it and an equal, or higher, quality of production.

This is, IME, like asking for a Ferrari or Lamborghini to be as reliable as a Toyota for your daily driver, and priced to compete.  I am highly skeptical that this would ever happen unless they charged 100 times more for the tubes.  In this age of planned obsolescence it appears to be an unreasonable request.

[char1]

Hi Jake,

Thanks for the quick reply....I am aware that the Telefunken EC88's are rebranded JJ tubes. However I have purchased at least three pairs of JJ 6922's and I have never had a tube problem. I am also aware that I may be extremely lucky in the draw with the JJ's. I am wondering though if the cryo process (their cryo process) may be the culprit here?

best wishes

charlie

[JakeJ]

Hi Charlie,

If I were to wager it would be on the JJ manufacturing process, not on Telefunken Elektroakustik's cryo process.  That said, it should not have made it past TE's quality assurance testing, IMO.  The big question is how has TE handled your problem.  I would expect prompt response and replacement.  If they were a  matched pair then the pair should be replaced.

Just my .02

Best regards,
Jake