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Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: Shredder on 1 Dec 2017, 07:19 pm

Title: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 1 Dec 2017, 07:19 pm
So, I am leaning heavily toward a Lio DHT perhaps with the new dac. I have heard it several times with Harbeth and think is is great. I am also intrigued by the idea of a simple low power system instead of the multi-box, multi cord/cable, high powered beast I have now (Aerial 9s, Modwright 150se, Cary Slp-05, Lampi Atlantic). I tend to like systems described as musical and natural and rich and gravitate toward tubes.

I am leaning toward the Lio with the Devore Gibbon Xs although I have enjoyed the o/96s as well. Anyone hear the Lio with Devore? Thoughts?

Other than Harbeth and Devore, any other good pairings I should consider?

Thanks much.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Tyson on 1 Dec 2017, 07:34 pm
Without question you should check out the Spatial Audio X2's.  I've heard the Lio with Harbeths several years in a row now, and it's a great combo.  But the Spatial X2 with the Lio was 'holy shit' amazing.  Huge synergy there and (IMO) a big step up over the Harbeths.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: targa02 on 1 Dec 2017, 07:47 pm
I'm with Tyson here.  I have heard the LIOo DHT with the Harbeths and with Spatial X2s.  Both are great, but the combo of the LIO with X2s was magical.

I have not heard the LIO with any Devore speakers.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Triode Pete on 1 Dec 2017, 07:49 pm
Volti Audio Rival with a Vinnie Rosso LIO... Killer combo!

(http://voltiaudio.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Rival2.png)

http://voltiaudio.com/rival/ (http://voltiaudio.com/rival/)

Ask Vinnie!

My $0.02,
Pete
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: mca on 1 Dec 2017, 08:00 pm
Look into Daedalus Audio. My LIO sounds great with my Ulysses speakers!
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 1 Dec 2017, 08:15 pm
I know Daedalus, very nice.

The Spatial do look interesting, sad I missed them at RMAF. Any idea how they work with a variety of music? I listen to everything from Jazz to Funk to Metal and Indie rock. To me, that its where the Harbeth's fall short. Also, I have a 16 x 24 room, by eyeball (not that accurate, i know), the X2 looks about right for my room, the X1 probably too big. Any ideas on that front. Is the X1 a big jump in sq?

Would also love input on Lio Devore.

Thanks for the great input.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: jriggy on 1 Dec 2017, 08:15 pm
Daedalus with a LIO here, too.

Edit: I heard Devore with LIO. I’ll shoot you PM later on...
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: TomS on 1 Dec 2017, 08:22 pm
I used my LIO DHT with TAD Evolution Ones, despite most telling me it shouldn't be done with such low power. I liked the combo very much, especially with the vinyl rig :green:
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: targa02 on 1 Dec 2017, 08:30 pm
Daedalus with a LIO here, too.

Edit: I heard Devore with LIO. I’ll shoot you PM later on...

The Spatials sounded great with all the music I heard through them.  The X1 is 20" wide.  I assume the X2 is similar in overall footprint.  One of the reasons Clayton designed the X2 as two modules is because the X1 is one heavy beast. 

I would call Clayton.  He is very easy to talk to, shares knowledge freely and is by no means a pushy sales guy.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Chris Adams on 1 Dec 2017, 08:34 pm
I have a LIO with a pair of VR120s and Spatial X1s. My room is 14x23, no problem with X1s.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: targa02 on 1 Dec 2017, 09:17 pm
Chris.  Can you please share with us your impressions of the X1s with Vinnie's equipment vs your prior set up? 
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 1 Dec 2017, 09:27 pm
Yes, impressions please. And, I can't find the dimensions for the x1s on the site? X2s but not x1s. What are they?
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: rollo on 1 Dec 2017, 09:30 pm
All great recommendations. The key here is the LIO. An excellent design period. I would try RETHM for single driver fans, Fritz for two way stand mount fans and as Triode Pete says Volti for horn fans.  Spatial for OB fans of course.
Let your ROOM size determine the right speaker. Any quality speaker with LIO will be just Ducky.


charles
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: CSI on 1 Dec 2017, 09:36 pm
My speakers for the past 18 months have been Spatial M4's. When we move next year I will ship them back to Utah to be upgraded to full Triode Master status. My LIO is fully equipped but non-DHT. I can hardly imagine a more satisfying amp/speaker combo.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: targa02 on 1 Dec 2017, 09:37 pm
All great recommendations. The key here is the LIO. An excellent design period. I would try RETHM for single driver fans, Fritz for two way stand mount fans and as Triode Pete says Volti for horn fans.  Spatial for OB fans of course.
Let your ROOM size determine the right speaker. Any quality speaker with LIO will be just Ducky.


charles

The RETHM is a very special speaker as well as the other aforementioned speakers.  I would love to hear them with a LIO.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Chris Adams on 1 Dec 2017, 09:40 pm
Chris.  Can you please share with us your impressions of the X1s with Vinnie's equipment vs your prior set up?

My prior set up was a pair of Pure Audio Project Trio15 Voxativ with custom crossovers I made. Sounded very good, clean, tight bass, spacious stage, very nice midrange. But, at higher volumes, there was a bit of shout from the full range driver even though the crossover was set up to ameliorate that issue. Along with that, the highs were rolled off a bit. All in all, very listenable.

The X1s eliminate the crossover and there is no shout with the uniwave driver. Removing the passive crossover (there is an electronic crossover in the LIO) is an ear opener. I've had full range no crossover speakers before, but the single driver has its limitations. The X1s don't. You'd think the 18 inch woofer and uniwave driver wouldn't match well but I can't hear the transition point. Punchy, resonant bass and clean and clear highs that just don't quit. Midrange is "you are there" gorgeous. The baffle is 20x48x4 plus the legs.

 
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 1 Dec 2017, 10:01 pm
So, it sounds like I need to hear the x1 and x2. For was, i would need to have these big boys fairly close to the back wall. Is that an issue? The site seems to suggest that, but what are your impressions?

Thanks for all the information.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 1 Dec 2017, 10:03 pm
WAF, not WAS.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Chris Adams on 1 Dec 2017, 10:37 pm
So, it sounds like I need to hear the x1 and x2. For was, i would need to have these big boys fairly close to the back wall. Is that an issue? The site seems to suggest that, but what are your impressions?

Thanks for all the information.

Check with Clayton.

Sound travels approximately 1ft per ms. I read somewhere (I think is was Duke from Audio Kinesis) that in order to maintain coherency a dipole should be at least 5ft from the front wall because you want the front wave to hit you 10ms before the back wave. I have used this formula with all my Maggies, electrostatics, and open baffle speakers. I have tried closer to the front wall and found that the stage collapses and imaging becomes blurred to varying degrees depending on distance and speaker.

Herbie's makes a cone/spike decoupling glider that I use with the X1s. The spikes nestle nicely into the glider and make it easy to move the speaker. You can leave them against the front wall when not in use and pull them out for listening at your discretion. And they sound better with the gliders.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Tyson on 2 Dec 2017, 03:30 am
X2's look like sculptures, box speakers look like monkey coffins.  Stylish OB speakers have much higher WAF, IME.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gnostalgick on 2 Dec 2017, 12:13 pm
ProAc?
Harbeth with LIO is the best I've heard Harbeth (and I really like Harbeth); but to me ProAcs are just more exciting and involving.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 3 Dec 2017, 02:06 pm
So, in rereading some of the answers, I realized some of you have a Lio pre with different power amps. I am specifically wondering about match between Lio integrated and versus speakers. Thanks.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Chris Adams on 3 Dec 2017, 07:28 pm
I can't say how the X1s sound with the LIO integrated because I had the basic ( two channel) amp not the (four channel) amp to bi-amp the X1s. However, I did hear my Pure Audio Project Trio15 Voxativs with the basic amp that comes with the LIO and also with the VR120s used as monoblocks. I asked Vinnie before I bought the VR120s if they had the same purity of sound that the basic amp had. He assured me they did and I concur. The PAP Trios played almost loud enough for me with the basic amp (25 watts) and my room is heavily sound treated. They sounded almost identical with the VR120s, just louder. The Trios are the same sensitivity as the X1s but had a passive crossover sucking up some power. I can imagine the four channel amp with the electronic crossover built into the LIO would be enough for most people. I hope that helps. Ask questions if confusing. :o
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 3 Dec 2017, 10:13 pm
I think i understand. The 4 channel amp is the X1 module for bi-amping (something I have never done before). VR makes a special module for that speaker, stands to reason it has enough power. Is the line stage module necessary as well to mate  Lio with the X!? I understand what the four channel amp is for, but do not understand the function of the X1 line stage module.

BTW< have you head and compared the x1 and x2?

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Chris Adams on 3 Dec 2017, 10:30 pm

I have not heard the X2.

The X1 line stage is the electronic crossover for the X1s. It provides separate line outs for R/L treble and R/L bass. Here's a pic. Ignore the switch in the middle, I had Vinnie put in a stereo reverse switch for me.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172286)


Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 3 Dec 2017, 11:05 pm
Got it, so both modules are required. I do like that the Lio has special modules for this speaker. I have definitely had synergy issues before, no risk with this set up. Thanks for the info.

I assume this sounds pretty amazing?
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Chris Adams on 3 Dec 2017, 11:26 pm

I assume this sounds pretty amazing?

 :banana piano: :beer: :dance:
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Vinnie R. on 4 Dec 2017, 12:21 am
Hi Shredder,

As the responses show from those who own or heard LIO, there are *many* speaker options to choose from!  :wink:

At the risk of stating the obvious here, I think it is important to first understand that more than any other component, your speakers (along with the room that they are placed in, as well as the positioning of your speakers and listening chair within your room) have the most influence over what you will hear.  I believe you can begin determining the speakers that will give you the best results for your money by first trying to eliminate those that probably will not work out so well.

For example:

- If you cannot pull the speakers out at least 3 feet (ideally more) from the wall behind them, then you probably won't get the best out
of a dipole design like an open baffle speaker.  Sure, they will still "work" closer than 3 feet, but not optimally. 
- If you are in a small room, you probably want eliminate a large floorstanding model because it will most likely will overpower the room with low frequency energy.
- If you are limited to placing speakers in or close to a corner, some are designed for this (Audio Note comes to mind).
- If you like to play at loud volumes (and would be using LIO's internal MOSFET AMP module), you want a speaker with a higher sensitivity specification (Volti comes to mind, as do Spatials if you have the room for them).
- Are there "spouse acceptance factors" to consider?  I do hear about this quite often, so it is worth bringing up.  :argue:

The list of variables goes on and on...

Once you know what kind of space you have to work with, then you can start looking into the type of sound that you want.  From your post, it looks like you have been to an audio show at least once, correct?  So you probably got to listen to a number of rooms that sounded good to you, some that did not, and hopefully some that you were highly impressed with?  From the ones that you were most impressed with, did you get to listen to the types of music that you like to listen to at home, and at the playback volumes that you like to listen at? 

Some factory-direct speaker companies (Spatial, Zu, Tekton come to mind) have a return policy in case you are not satisfied with the results.  If you are buying from a dealer, some will let you take their floor-model home to try for a few days.  There is no better place to evaluate how a speaker will sound than your own listening room. 

Feel free to email or call me if you have questions about specific speakers that I have used at shows, or just questions in general
about what I have mentioned above.

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far in trying to give Shredder some suggestions!

Vinnie
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Shredder on 4 Dec 2017, 01:53 pm
Thanks Vinnie, i will pm you.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Vinnie R. on 4 Dec 2017, 04:23 pm
Thanks Vinnie, i will pm you.

Please EMAIL me (vinnie@vinnierossi.com) directly instead of PM...

Thanks
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: rollo on 4 Dec 2017, 05:42 pm
The RETHM is a very special speaker as well as the other aforementioned speakers.  I would love to hear them with a LIO.


  Well then buy an LIO and come over to hear with RETHM Saadhana  I'm in NY.


charles
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: targa02 on 4 Dec 2017, 08:25 pm

  Well then buy an LIO and come over to hear with RETHM Saadhana  I'm in NY.


charles
Thanks for the offer Charles!  I have a LIO (Love It!), and it is relatively light weight, but I am in CA, so getting to you is quite a commitment.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Bloodsplint on 5 Dec 2017, 03:39 am
Daedalus with a LIO here, too.

Edit: I heard Devore with LIO. I’ll shoot you PM later on...

Hey jriggy, would you mind sharing these thoughts? I am also curious about Devore (specifically O/96) with the Lio. I've had the opportunity to hear the Devores but never with the Lio.

Cheers
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: yardbird4 on 5 Dec 2017, 03:42 pm
The LIO seems to offer maximum flexibility for selection of speakers.  I initially had LIO hooked up to my Spendor FL-9's (89 db sensitivity) with great results.  The I found a pair of Decware HR-1' 
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: yardbird4 on 5 Dec 2017, 03:48 pm
Sorry my previous message posted before I finished:

he LIO seems to offer maximum flexibility for selection of speakers.  I initially had LIO hooked up to my Spendor FL-9's (89 db sensitivity) with great results.  The I found a pair of Decware HR-1' s on sale on Audiogon that I had been interested in for years but no at the retail price.  The omni directional HR-I's (92 db sensitivity mate extremely well with the LIO and made me give up my 35 year marriage to Spendor speakers.
Modify message
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: tme110 on 6 Dec 2017, 11:16 pm
I think i understand. The 4 channel amp is the X1 module for bi-amping (something I have never done before). VR makes a special module for that speaker, stands to reason it has enough power. Is the line stage module necessary as well to mate  Lio with the X!? I understand what the four channel amp is for, but do not understand the function of the X1 line stage module.

BTW< have you head and compared the x1 and x2?

Thanks for the help.

Im not sure this was answered or maybe I misread your original question.

No, you dont need both modules, just one.  The X1 amp includes the amp and is everything you need to use the X1 speakers.  The X1 line stage is a line-level output in case you think you have a better power amp.  So one makes the LIO a 4-channel preamp, and the other makes it a 4-channel integrated.  It's a neat capability to have an amp that is custom made for a speaker.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: jpm on 23 Aug 2019, 03:59 pm
Like more than a few I suspect (odds are high) I originally used my LIO with a pair of LS50's in a small room. Sounded great, given space and arrangement restrictions. After a move, I added a VR120 and PMC Fact 3's in my new larger room - woohoo!!!

Now, I wouldn't have resuscitated an old thread just for this. Something really special happened recently ... really special. I'm enjoying a sound that I'd come to believe required advanced certifications in trigonometry, a hefty does of good fortune, the patience of a saint and lots of money. No really, LOTS of money.

Re-jiggering my HT setup saw me pull out a pair of speakers, so I thought I'd give them a try with my VR setup. The speakers are Usher CP6381's that I bought years ago to better handle a huge open plan family room area. Nothing ever made that room sound good. Ever. I gave up on it because meaningful improvements were beyond the possibility of familial compromise. The Usher's stood there in defiant pose against the forces of glass, tile and constant TV (boooo!) of little use but to irritate my wife with their size and presence, reminding us both of the stalemate.

Enough family feud history, what about the sound? F*#^ing incredible. I'd read all the rave reviews on these 6381's back when I bought them (used). In the end I guess I decided it was just HiFi hyperbole again. Not now. Soundstage, OMG the soundstage ... I've only ever heard soundstage like this once before in a showroom on a Leben / ProAc combination with very extensive room treatment. Sure, I've heard objectively better systems, but only at budgets equivalent to the cost of a family home. Yes, I have a few system changes / upgrades I want to make (inevitable, right!) but that doesn't take away anything from the core pole vault in sound quality.

Why share now? Well this is a recent discovery of mine, but Usher CP series speakers seem to hang around on the used market for ages at relatively cheap asking prices (unlike the BE-718's with Danny Ritchie designed crossover that were so popular). Maybe someone will be in the right place at the right time to score a bonkers upgrade for themselves?



Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 23 Aug 2019, 09:58 pm
I am using a re-foamed pair of Snell KIII's from the mid 90's.  Sweet..however I am going to audition a pair of Dynaudio Special 40's next week. I wanted to try the Spatails but I cannot place them at least 3 feet out.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197835)

coming next week:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197836)

Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 26 Aug 2019, 11:34 pm
nope... :nono:  tried 3 sets of tubes..not a good match at all for the LIO! I 'm not even going to try them another day..back they go.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: matthewpartrick on 1 Sep 2019, 02:36 pm
Mark one satisfied customer with the Volti Rivals.  Crazy sensitive and minimally dependent on room placement. They replaced Joseph Perspectives.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 4 Oct 2019, 03:50 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199391)
Harbeth P3 ESR's SE in Roswood arrived. This is my second set of the P3's , the first was 5 years ago with my Parasound gear. They are a year old trade in set from a dealer..BEK HIFI, in PA who is also demoing Vinnie's new gear in store. This is a great combo with the LIO Integrated. I can highly recommend this set up especially if you live in an apartment as I do.

Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: rollo on 4 Oct 2019, 04:05 pm
  Cool Gene looks good.

charles
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Yomaha on 8 Oct 2019, 02:00 pm
Hey jriggy, would you mind sharing these thoughts? I am also curious about Devore (specifically O/96) with the Lio. I've had the opportunity to hear the Devores but never with the Lio.

Cheers

Anyone here with impressions of the Devore O/96 or Gibbon X with LIO?  TIA
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: jriggy on 8 Oct 2019, 04:05 pm
Anyone here with impressions of the Devore O/96 or Gibbon X with LIO?  TIA
When I had my LIO DHT (L2 now) and took it to a really cool home dealer location, we put the LIO in place over the resident Leben CS600, with Devore Gibbon X speakers....and it was fantastic. This was not a large room but it did have a couple big openings. Of course room size and listening volume is to be considered but the combo was wonderful.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: trcks on 8 Oct 2019, 10:17 pm
How do you like the L2 vs your LIO DHT? What are the differences in the sound? I am still on the fence for trading up to the L2....
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: jriggy on 9 Oct 2019, 01:24 pm
How do you like the L2 vs your LIO DHT? What are the differences in the sound? I am still on the fence for trading up to the L2....

I’m using the L2 preamp but not much else I can say that hasn’t already been mentioned in the L2 thread. It’s cleaner and clearer, with a much lower noise floor. Other than that, it’s been to long and I haven’t thought about it. Just know it’s a different league altogether.
I believe you have two+ months left to trade-in LIO for L2 through Vinnie. After that it will be dealer only (if my memory is correct), if trades are still taken—I don’t know.
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: rollo on 9 Oct 2019, 03:56 pm
  Basically ANY speaker that is a good speaker will mate with the LIO period. My Favorites so far are Volti, Spatial and Rethm.

charles
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 10 Oct 2019, 02:40 pm
I hooked up my Velodyne Mini Vee to accompany the Harbeth P3's via the variable outputs.This is one great sub for music and movies that goes below 20hz and has been in semi retirement the last few years in my home. Just a little touch of bass from this baby and it gives the Harbeth's a nice jump in performance.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 16 Oct 2019, 02:28 pm
One more set of speakers arrived , the Bryston Mini A's in beautiful Piano Gloss White. I have them set up on a pair of sand filled 28 inch stands. The Vinnie Rossi LIO is having no problem driving them. They need break in time so right now the Harbeth's have the upper hand. I plugged the rear ports as I have done in the past with my Bryston speakers because of distance to the rear wall and I am incorporating my Velodyne sub very lightly. Lot's of great detail and the brightness of the speakers is reducing daily. One nice thing about the LIO is the ability to change tubes, in this case I can add a warmer Amperex 6922 should I feel the need.  The gloss white speakers are beautifully built and Bryston packaging is superb for protecting the speakers during shipping. I will update over the next few weeks as the break in and tweaking continues.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199663)

Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: matthewpartrick on 17 Oct 2019, 01:20 pm
Loving my rivals, and waiting for the L2iSE arrives!
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: jriggy on 17 Oct 2019, 06:06 pm
Loving my rivals, and waiting for the L2iSE arrives!
Congrats Matt! Yer gonna love it. You have Volti’s now? Thought you had Joseph Audio...??
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: matthewpartrick on 21 Oct 2019, 11:52 pm
Congrats Matt! Yer gonna love it. You have Volti’s now? Thought you had Joseph Audio...??

Yes swapped out a few months ago.  Rivals are outstanding!
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Delta77 on 22 Oct 2019, 12:12 am
You have my vote on  Volti ..
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 3 Jul 2020, 03:28 pm
I came across some vintage Snells, again, ..lol. These were favorites of mine from the 90's ..JIV's. They need some TLC and repair but sound awesome. WOW..they sing with my LIO. Unfortunately the woofers are disgusting..how the hell do they sound so good in that condition??


I just replaced the woofers with a pair of authentic ones from a Snell parts dealer so break in time is needed. I was going to replace the coils too but I don't want to mess with the board ,cutting wires, , re soldering, etc so I am leaving the original parts in place.They look really clean inside and good order. I made friends with a guy e-bay who made me some badges for the grilles and they could use new spikes. I am not going to re stain them as I did with my black KIII's. These are cherry so I cleaned them up and polished them for now.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211276)


I still have the Amperex 7308's in the LIO and I am still using the PS audio stellar 300 amp but will try the Lio's amp output later on......
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: Yomaha on 8 Jul 2020, 06:32 pm
Anyone tried the Volti Razz?

http://voltiaudio.com/razz/
Title: Re: Speakers for Lio??
Post by: gene9p on 12 Aug 2020, 02:49 pm
I added Isoacoustics Gaia III's..man do they make a difference in sound. Not just a gimmick, they really work. I felt something was missing from the sound of the Snells.  I ordered the Aperta stands which were too small but sound was fantastic!! I sprung for two sets of the feet..pricey..yup..but ya gotta hear what they can do for your speakers.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213116)