[morganc]

Hi guys,
   I'm looking for a new speaker and love OB speakers.  I am trying to decide between the M3 and the M4 and would love to know the differences between the two.   Can anyone who has heard them comment?  Clayton can you comment? 
   My situation:  I am in a condo and my living room opens into the kitchen. The living room is about 15x12 not including an octagonal window behind and to the left of the listening position with an opening into a 12x12 kitchen as well.  I would sit about 10 feet from the speakers.  I would prefer not to have to pull the speakers out too far into the room if possible. 

Specific questions I have:
1. What are the major design differences between the two besides the 15 inch Vs 12 inch woofers?
2.  Would the smaller M4 be more ideally placed closer to the back wall vs the M3? 
3. Except for the differences in bass, what are the other significant differences between the two models? 

And finally:  is there any significant design differences between the first models that had the T brace vs the newer model or is it the exact same speaker except for the brace changes? 

[mick wolfe]

From the info given (room sizes and condo), my guess is the M4 would be the better fit. However, you'll still need a minimum of around 24" between front wall and speaker to get a nice open presentation.

[Spatial Audio]

Hi guys,
   I'm looking for a new speaker and love OB speakers.  I am trying to decide between the M3 and the M4 and would love to know the differences between the two.   Can anyone who has heard them comment?  Clayton can you comment? 
   My situation:  I am in a condo and my living room opens into the kitchen. The living room is about 15x12 not including an octagonal window behind and to the left of the listening position with an opening into a 12x12 kitchen as well.  I would sit about 10 feet from the speakers.  I would prefer not to have to pull the speakers out too far into the room if possible. 

Specific questions I have:
1. What are the major design differences between the two besides the 15 inch Vs 12 inch woofers?
2.  Would the smaller M4 be more ideally placed closer to the back wall vs the M3? 
3. Except for the differences in bass, what are the other significant differences between the two models? 

And finally:  is there any significant design differences between the first models that had the T brace vs the newer model or is it the exact same speaker except for the brace changes?

Hello Morganc,

Even though your living room is moderate in size, you must add the 12x12 kitchen to get the actual acoustic volume of the space. Its fairly large at that point, so I would say that both M3 and M4 models should work fine. As Mick mentioned, you want allow the speaker at least 24 inches distance from the wall to start getting an open sound - 36 inches would be better. Many of our customers simply pull them out for serious listening sessions since they are easy to move around.  That way you could store them against the wall. Both models need some breathing space as mentioned. Of course, this is true with regular box speakers as well. 

There are no design differences between the M3 and M4 other than woofer size, and build quality standards are the same across the model range. The change away from the T brace original M3 was to allow for UPS compatible shipping rather than truck freight, which can be quite expensive. The performance was the same going to the Mk2 version. Since then, the M3 Mk2 has benefited from more development time as evidenced by the new Turbo S version.

Normally the differences in size between 12 and 15 inch drivers would have an audible effect on the midrange, but in our case, the crossover point is very low at 800Hz, so this potential problem is eliminated. The two models sound almost identical, partly because they use the same compression driver. The M4 has surprisingly good bass and has a rich tonal balance like the M3 - it just doesn't play as deep, which is fine in small rooms. In the combined space you have, I would go with the M3s if budget allows and take advantage of the deep bass difference.

Clayton Shaw

[jtwrace]

The performance was the same going to the Mk2 version. Since then, the M3 Mk2 has benefited from more development time as evidenced by the new Turbo S version.


Clayton Shaw

Hello Clayton,


Can you explain what the main sonic difference is and why with the new compression driver within the Turbo S model? 

[Spatial Audio]

Hello Clayton,


Can you explain what the main sonic difference is and why with the new compression driver within the Turbo S model?

Hello Jason,

Sure - the M25 compression driver used in the Turbo S has a special diaphragm that uses a Nitrogen process to increase the stiffness of the titanium dome. This pushes up the first non-piston break-up mode into the ultrasonic region to eliminate the natural breakup distortion that normally begins in the audible spectrum. The results are similar to Beryllium diaphragms, which are already very stiff, but at a much lower cost.

Clayton

[jtwrace]

Hello Jason,

Sure - the M25 compression driver used in the Turbo S has a special diaphragm that uses a Nitrogen process to increase the stiffness of the titanium dome. This pushes up the first non-piston break-up mode into the ultrasonic region to eliminate the natural breakup distortion that normally begins in the audible spectrum. The results are similar to Beryllium diaphragms, which are already very stiff, but at a much lower cost.

Clayton

Thank you.  Next silly question then.  Is it audible at any SPL? 

[Spatial Audio]

Thank you.  Next silly question then.  Is it audible at any SPL?

Dome breakup distortion is independent of SPL for the most part, as the deformation of the dome shape is frequency related. A lot of (or most of) us are old enough now where we may not necessarily hear this behavior above 14kHz. So, how audible it is depends somewhat on the individual person. I don't really know if its audible at very low volume levels.

Clayton

[JackD]

Clayton

Did the "standard" M3 go away today for some reason.  Seems now the choices start with the Turbo.

[Spatial Audio]

Clayton

Did the "standard" M3 go away today for some reason.  Seems now the choices start with the Turbo.

Yes, we have taken the Standard version off the site in order to keep things simple and optimize our production process. 90% of our M3 sales are Turbo and Turbo S versions, so it has become clear that audiophiles want the better electrical package. The M4 Turbo is priced at $1495 pr, so it covers that price point that was occupied by the M3 Standard.

Clayton

[mresseguie]

Hello, Clayton.

I have a question or two for you. I understand OB speakers sound best when pulled out into a room, but what will happen to the sound/the music if I position them only 12 to 15 inches from the front wall?[ Mind you, this would not be for critical listening. I just want to fill the room with music.]

Next question begins with a little story: I'm currently in Taiwan and I've been to practically every audio store I can find just to see what is different here, and to work on my Mandarin audiophile slang. I'm almost sure that I got to listen to a pair of your speakers (the older T shaped model) about 3 months ago in Taipei. They were placed in a horrible room approximately 12" from the front wall. I say horrible because the walls were either glass or marble, floor was marble, and ceiling was very reflective (just so it fit in with the rest of the room). I guessed that they ought to sound good, but not in that space. In another venue, a gentleman showed me a single photograph in his cell phone of what I believe were your Lumina speakers. He told me they were over $20,000 and they were the best OB speakers anywhere. At the time, I had never heard of "Spatial Audio", so when he garbled the name in Chinglish, I simply smiled and nodded my head. Now, I realize he said Spatial Audio. He was very proud of his OB speakers. Few Taiwanese audiophiles own OB speakers, so I was quite impressed by his enthusiasm. He casually mentioned that his speaker cables sell for something like $12k USD!

So my question is: Is there an actual dealer in Taiwan, or is someone sneakily selling your speakers there? Your website does not list a Taiwan distributor.

BTW I am very impressed by all the enthusiasm of the various posters here, reviewers' comments, and your presentation. Even so, I'm still very hesitant to try a pair (in my home in Taiwan) because I know full well they will be placed just 12" from the front wall most of the time, and I worry about the resultant sound quality. [If you think N. American WAF is challenging, wait till you deal with Asian WAF.  ]

Regards,

Michael

[Spatial Audio]

Hello, Clayton.

I have a question or two for you. I understand OB speakers sound best when pulled out into a room, but what will happen to the sound/the music if I position them only 12 to 15 inches from the front wall?[ Mind you, this would not be for critical listening. I just want to fill the room with music.]

Next question begins with a little story: I'm currently in Taiwan and I've been to practically every audio store I can find just to see what is different here, and to work on my Mandarin audiophile slang. I'm almost sure that I got to listen to a pair of your speakers (the older T shaped model) about 3 months ago in Taipei. They were placed in a horrible room approximately 12" from the front wall. I say horrible because the walls were either glass or marble, floor was marble, and ceiling was very reflective (just so it fit in with the rest of the room). I guessed that they ought to sound good, but not in that space. In another venue, a gentleman showed me a single photograph in his cell phone of what I believe were your Lumin speakers. He told me they were over $20,000 and they were the best OB speakers anywhere. At the time, I had never heard of "Spatial Audio", so when he garbled the name in Chinglish, I simply smiled and nodded my head. Now, I realize he said Spatial Audio. He was very proud of his OB speakers. Few Taiwanese audiophiles own OB speakers, so I was quite impressed by his enthusiasm. He casually mentioned that his speaker cables sell for something like $12k USD!

So my question is: Is there an actual dealer in Taiwan, or is someone sneakily selling your speakers there? Your website does not list a Taiwan distributor.

BTW I am very impressed by all the enthusiasm of the various posters here, reviewers' comments, and your presentation. Even so, I'm still very hesitant to try a pair (in my home in Taiwan) because I know full well they will be placed just 12" from the front wall most of the time, and I worry about the resultant sound quality. [If you think N. American WAF is challenging, wait till you deal with Asian WAF.  ]

Regards,

Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your entertaining post - I feel for you. If you place an OB speaker against the wall, unlike a box speaker, you will have very little bass and some emphasis in the upper bass and/or lower midrange. For background or casual listening, it would probably work ok. I tend to suggest that this a not a huge problem in that you can pull them out when settling in for a serious listening session and then move them back for storage. Your happy-she's happy. If you can do that, then your problem would be solved.

We do not have an official distributor or any dealers in Taiwan, so who knows where they got the speakers. There are quite a few pairs of Luminas in Asia now, so maybe they were traded in.

Clayton

[mresseguie]

Thanks, Clayton. As time permits, I will revisit the location where I saw your speakers - rather, I assume they were yours. Are there M3/M4 clones floating around Asia?

I'll be traveling in the States for a few months this year. I really hope to listen to the M3 Turbo S models.

[Spatial Audio]

Thanks, Clayton. As time permits, I will revisit the location where I saw your speakers - rather, I assume they were yours. Are there M3/M4 clones floating around Asia?

I'll be traveling in the States for a few months this year. I really hope to listen to the M3 Turbo S models.

There certainly could be M3/M4 knockoffs in Asia, but I am not aware of any. Glad to hear you will be visiting the US - give me a call then.

Clayton

[erniek]

At higher volumes would these 2 speakers sound the same? I like to turn my music up for bands like Pink
Floyd.

[Rocket_Ronny]

If it was me I would simply get the M3 Turbo S. Taller speaker with the better compression driver.

Well, actually I would go for Lumina if it wasn't priced like it is. Just too jaded to go for lesser than the M3 Turbo S, unless the M4 Turbo S imaged better.

Rocket_Almost Tempted_Ronny

[Spatial Audio]

At higher volumes would these 2 speakers sound the same? I like to turn my music up for bands like Pink
Floyd.

Both M3 and M4 play very loudly, so thats not really an issue. They both sound the same even at fairly high levels. In larger rooms, the M3 is probably the best bet, just to make sure.

[sonicboom]

Clayton,

Any plans perhaps down the road to offer 8 Ohm versions of the speakers for the tube guys?

[Spatial Audio]

Clayton,

Any plans perhaps down the road to offer 8 Ohm versions of the speakers for the tube guys?

No plans to do a high impedance version. Maybe in the future. We have a lot of users with SETs that work great with the current models using the 4Ω output taps.

Clayton

[jtwrace]

No plans to do a high impedance version. Maybe in the future. We have a lot of users with SETs that work great with the current models using the 4Ω output taps.

Clayton

Have you ever tried the Zero Impedance units?  Maybe they're an option? 

[Spatial Audio]

Have you ever tried the Zero Impedance units?  Maybe they're an option?

I have not had a chance to try the Zero transformers. I understand they can work wonders with OTL amps driving low impedance loads. Maybe someone could chime in that has tried them.