what power cords to use for Reference 20

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Genez

Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #20 on: 6 Jul 2017, 11:41 pm »
Please, this is so full of shit.

If that's exactly what he told me?   Probably right. 

But,  this much I can recall.  He did say this.   Electrons do not move lightning fast like many assume.  I had to learn that lesson the hard way in the DIY forum. I was jumped on when I spoke about electrons moving rapidly down the wires. At that time I was promptly given documentation showing that is not the case.  Here is what I just found online about the matter.


Well?  ..  The designer of his own power cord was telling me something based upon that understanding about slow moving electrons.  I coined the phrase "reservoir." He spoke about having so many feet of quality wire to keep the electrons in a manner that will make the equipment ultimately sound better.   One can not deny that a good audiophile power cord (in a transparent system)  will improve in how it sounds after the cable is burned in.   

His take was based upon the slow moving electrons.  And, no.  He was not in the DIY forum when this was explained to me. He spoke to me months later over the phone. 

And,  he was not trying to sell me his cord.  He told me... "whatever cord you get, make sure its at least 6 feet long."

Here is one company shares the same notion about cable length...


Armaegis

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Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #21 on: 7 Jul 2017, 12:02 am »
You can do all sorts of wizardry with shielding and geometry and configurations to affect a cable's LCR values, but concerning the flow of electrons in the material itself... the only way you can control that is from the outright manufacturing of the original bulk wire. I am positive there are zero boutique cable makers who have that kind of clout and expertise that they can custom order the megaspools of specially produced wire. Even if they could, the differences would be so marginal as to be nonexistent.

Genez

Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #22 on: 7 Jul 2017, 01:11 am »
You can do all sorts of wizardry with shielding and geometry and configurations to affect a cable's LCR values, but concerning the flow of electrons in the material itself... the only way you can control that is from the outright manufacturing of the original bulk wire. I am positive there are zero boutique cable makers who have that kind of clout and expertise that they can custom order the megaspools of specially produced wire. Even if they could, the differences would be so marginal as to be nonexistent.


Pangea does.   Cardas copper and with litz in configuration.  Shielded.....    The designer (from what I read online) has designed power cords for other companies as well.  I believe he started out designing for medical equipment.

All I know,  it sounds very good with everything I tried.   I am also sure there are other cords that also sound good.  Its the reasonable pricing of Pangea is what locked my radar on to them.  I could never afford those 500- 1000 $ cords. 

G Georgopoulos

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Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #23 on: 7 Jul 2017, 02:45 am »
If that's exactly what he told me?   Probably right. 

But,  this much I can recall.  He did say this.   Electrons do not move lightning fast like many assume.  I had to learn that lesson the hard way in the DIY forum. I was jumped on when I spoke about electrons moving rapidly down the wires. At that time I was promptly given documentation showing that is not the case.  Here is what I just found online about the matter.




mate, frequency proves electrons have astonishing speed, 1 GHZ is 1.000.000.000 hz per second,the period is P=1/F the speed of electrons in the period of that frequency is velocity = wavelength x frequency.

cheERS

Armaegis

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Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #24 on: 7 Jul 2017, 07:39 am »
Pangea does not run a manufacturing plant. They just order the wire.
I really doubt Cardas owns his own plant either, but he orders large quantities from one place that produces to his specifications (which are really not much different than other higher grade wire available elsewhere; his wording is just different).
Litz is... a very nice buzzword that is often misused and furthermore has no bearing on power cords.
Requiring a minimum length for a cable is absurd, but it sure is nice for selling purposes.

Sigh, I really don't want to get into this cable debate.

Letitroll98

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Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #25 on: 7 Jul 2017, 10:00 am »
You can do all sorts of wizardry with shielding and geometry and configurations to affect a cable's LCR values, but concerning the flow of electrons in the material itself... the only way you can control that is from the outright manufacturing of the original bulk wire. I am positive there are zero boutique cable makers who have that kind of clout and expertise that they can custom order the megaspools of specially produced wire. Even if they could, the differences would be so marginal as to be nonexistent.

One is Dave113 from Zen Wave Audio here on AC who orders custom metallurgy and geometry from a manufacturer with no problems.  From memory I believe he sources through Mundorf, but don't quote me on that.  You are correct in that I remember he said there was a rather large minimum order.  BTW, they are a major wire manufacturer that believes cables sound different. 

I'm not sure how you would control electron flow in the manufacturing process other than gauge and material, but electron flow (or rather electron migration) is not electricity.  Electrons migrate relatively slowly through a cable carrying current, electricity is a wave function, two very different things.

Whether a PC makes a difference in the sound of your system is the cable debate that neither of us wants to enter into.  Happy listening.

Genez

Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #26 on: 7 Jul 2017, 04:01 pm »
mate, frequency proves electrons have astonishing speed, 1 GHZ is 1.000.000.000 hz per second,the period is P=1/F the speed of electrons in the period of that frequency is velocity = wavelength x frequency.

cheERS

Would you like me to take the time to find the thread where this was discussed by builders in the DIY forum?   And,,  maybe you would like to write a letter to that university I linked to that said essentially the same thing?

I am not here to argue with you.  Your argument is with those who make the claim that I am only repeating. In that DIY thread (if you want me to take the time to find it it) one person presented a scholarly piece by an engineer.   If you want me to?  You may find it helpful. 

For my reasoning when I came into the  DIY discussion was much like yours.  I was dumbfounded at first when they told me I was wrong. Then, then months later a friend who is quite brilliant,  who designs?  He told me essentially the same thing about electrons.  Who am I to argue with in that case?  Apparently, there is something else going on  that makes electricity with all it parts work so quickly.

In the mean time... audio cords and interconnects.... and fuses... all effect what we hear coming from our speakers.   Experts can not explain even why burning in equipment changes the sound. But, they know it does in many cases.  So?  Who am I to argue?


PHamm

Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #27 on: 7 Jul 2017, 08:23 pm »

Another brand of power cables that might be considered here is KLEI. I don't know about Ref 20s, but I have had good luck with KLEI power cables and my IDA-16. I started with the gPower 2 model. This seems to me a very good cable. Music just sounds good with this cable. More recently, I upgraded the power on my IDA-16 to the gPower 3 model. This seemed to add more bass to the music (in a good way). I have not tried the current top-of-the-line KLEI power cable (Purity 8), which is considerably more expensive than the gPower models. There are some rave reviews for this cable on the KLEI website. The best and fullest review is by a retailer of KLEI and NuPrime products, who describes using it on an IDA-16. Perhaps it might be worth checking out? Anyway, it's just a thought.

Paul

 

john925

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Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #28 on: 8 Jul 2017, 12:11 am »
Hi, John.

If you're not in a hurry to try new PCs, I will be back in Taiwan by November. I have 2 TWL power cords - a digital American and a 10+. My wife and I have a place in Taoyuan City. You're welcome to try either of the power cords. I've also got a PC from the guy who made my preamp that might interest you. It cost just $109 USD, though I took it to Taiwan in my luggage.

Alternatively, there's a great audio DIY shop in Taipei called THLaudio.com. It's located between Fuxing and Jianguo Roads fairly close to Shimin Da Dao. Ah-Chuan Tsai is very knowledgeable about audio. I'm certain he could set you up with great DIY PCs or they could add connectors for a small fee. Tell him Michael sent you in. Oh, wait. Do you speak Mandarin? Ah-Chuan's English is not the best, but he's very enthusiastic about audio (and scotch).

Where on the island are you located?

Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the input. I live in Chaiyi county, in southern part of Taiwan.  It's a 3-hour-drive to Taoyuan.  I am not in a hurry to try power cords due to some family priorities recently.  I know Mr.Tsai of THLaudio.com.  I used to buy Soundcare spikes from him, a very nice person to talk to.  Thanks for mentioning the good news of TWL cords.  I'll try to see if I can spare some time to visit you.  It's still a couple of months before November, so we may talk about this later. 

John


Genez

Re: what power cords to use for Reference 20
« Reply #29 on: 9 Jul 2017, 05:21 pm »
I'm not sure how you would control electron flow in the manufacturing process other than gauge and material, but electron flow (or rather electron migration) is not electricity.  Electrons migrate relatively slowly through a cable carrying current, electricity is a wave function, two very different things.

Thank you for that.   

Its the very thing one power cord designer was telling me about.  He believed longer cords sound better for that reason. 

He recommended at least six feet (2 meters)... I am not adept at the vocabulary needed ... But,  he told me (to the effect) that slow moving electrons become stored (when on 24/7) and the longer power cords will simply sound better because they contain a built reserve on tap. 

He may only have an unproven theory as to why.  But,  the longer cables I have heard do sound better than anything they replaced.