AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Planar Circle => Topic started by: Rclark on 7 Jul 2011, 03:57 am
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All the stuff I've read on these, from the individual posts to the site itself is quite compelling. Not a whole lot on this site, however.
What do you guys think? I'm very interested in getting some MMG's and having this guy do his stuff on them.
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All the stuff I've read on these, from the individual posts to the site itself is quite compelling. Not a whole lot on this site, however.
What do you guys think? I'm very interested in getting some MMG's and having this guy do his stuff on them.
If you read PG's Magnestand site carefully, you'll realise that he gives Maggies a complete "makeover". IE. (and the name is a bit of a misnomer) it's not just a "stand", it's throwing away everything except for the mylar driver assembly. So he builds:
* new frames out of hardwood (of your choice) - instead of MDF.
* a new, external XO in a beautiful box.
* braced stands.
I got hardwood frames made up my for my big Maggies on the basis of reading about what PG had done to the smaller Maggies. But I'm not interested in his (passive series) XO as my Maggies are 3-way active. :)
Regards,
Andy
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I purchased the first set from John and I really loved them.
Now that I have a burly amp I am shopping for another set of panels for John to magnestand. I'll probably do 1.2s or 1.6s. John is awesome to deal with and his evolution of the panel brings the magnepan into another realm. The magnepan strengths are emphasized and its weaknesses are mitigated. I know I sound like a magnestand fanboy, but I am. :D
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Does the sweet spot open up quite a bit?
Can you please describe the sound of Magnestand verusus Maggie in terms of sweetspot? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, I'm a lifelong box speaker guy.
I'm already on the hunt for a pair of MMG's.
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Have you checked Audiogon? MMG's are often up there, for about $400 per pair. (They're only $600 from Magnepan.)
I don't think I'd describe the MMG as having a wide sweet spot, by the way. They aren't super beamy but neither do they have the dispersion of Magnepan's true ribbons or the new 1.7, with its narrow supertweeter.
Another thing you should know about planars is that they're dipole radiators, they radiate sound mostly towards the front and the back. This is great if you're sitting in front of them on a couch doing serious listening, and OK for casual walking around the room background listening. But the sound level does fall off as you get off axis. This reduces room interactions and lets you play music louder without disturbing the neighbors or your wife, but it also means they aren't good party speakers, since you don't get the same loud sound in every part of the room. I don't think there's any right or wrong here, it's more a matter of what fits your listening habits.
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stock mmg.
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Stock my smgas had a sweet spot that was quite narrow, and required looking straight ahead to maintain cohesiveness.
Post magnestand this rigidity in maintaining image was gone.
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well, I've placed myself in his que (although he is full and I get in if anyone opts out). I am on the hunt for some MMG's. If I can't find a great deal, I'll buy new.
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I'm in his que for 1.6's.
Try watching Craigslist.
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I keep reading about how sensitive Maggies are to rooms. Do you think I'll be okay?
It's just a 16*12 bedroom and I'll be able to get them the three feet out, that's where I have my monitors now. There will be a low bed at the foot of one of them, and there is a large desk in the room (which I may remove). Other than that, just a plain 16*12 with a door and a window.
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The space behind in my experience is the tough thing. They really do have to be out in the room, distance from the rear wall will allow you to get the bass phase tuned in. I'm sure John, pg, can illuminate.
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Maggies perfer a rectangular room best. However they can be well set up in most rooms. If the side walls are more than say 4 feet away put the tweeters on the outside. If say 3 feet or less then on the inside. A minimum of 5 feet apart from wood trim to wood trim is desired. One set up move your listening chair back and forth to find YOUR sweet spot.
Have fun people.
charles
SMA
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Well, when I get the stock mmgs I'll have plenty of time to agonize over them :D.
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I made the que for late November :D . Time to start saving up, I'll opt for the new super crossover.
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Late November? Why would you want to wait that long?
What he does is simple woodworking and simple crossover fabrication. If you're not handy with the woodworking tools yourself I'm sure you have a friend that might be. Save yourself a bunch of time and money and do the project yourself.
Cheers,
Dave.
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I want to wait that long because I told him to put me at the end of the line if I get in.
And, hahahaha, I don't know anyone locally who wouldn't charge me an astronomical sum to come up with what he makes. That work he does down to the crossover boxes is stunning. And I am not a woodworker.
Nope, I'm sold, he doesn't charge that much at all in my book, it's almost too good to be true, actually. Nope, I'm getting mine Gunn'd.
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I guess it depends upon how a person prioritizes aesthetics and performance. My basic point is (since I guess I didn't make it clearly) is that "performance"-wise, you can create what he's done easily with MUCH less money, IF you go the DIY route.
And of course, you can go well beyond the performance of the Magnestand systems with other means......should you so choose. But, that's another topic.
Cheers,
Dave.
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Well beyond? Do tell :)
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Bi-amped (or tri-amped) mated with dipole woofers......improved passive mid/tweet crossover if bi-amped.......improved version of the framing scheme......etc, etc.
Other folks are doing interesting work with damping of the transducer frames. I haven't tried that myself....yet.
Cheers,
Dave.
My current MMG setup looks like this:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=49384)
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I figured you'd mention multiple amps. I'm still not sold on active. And lot more money and worry than I want to deal with.
You say "well beyond". Have you compared yours to a Magnestand?
Looks nice! My plan is now to mate with ob subs as well.
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Multiple amps are the only way to maximize performance of any speaker system....not just Maggies. Eventually, any listener needs to push out of the entrenched audiophile paradigms and move forward with technology.
Money and worry are aspects that are reduced with a system like this....not increased. That may seem counter-intuitive, but it's the truth. :)
Cheers,
Dave.
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well do you have links, some good reading?
That PlanarAsylum forum is a horrible place, very old looking forum and very confusing to use. Not sure what the "MUG" forum is.
I'm brand new to planars.
I'd like to see stuff on your build, if you have it.
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Once you factor in Peter's upgrade cost you're into new 1.7 territory.
Has anyone here compared a set of the Magnestand (or Gunned, if you prefer) MMGs with a set of 1.7s?
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apparently they destroy them.
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So I understand but you know Missouri's motto.
If anyone in the greater Baltimore/York, PA area wishes to bring a set by for a comparison test I'd be more than happy to accomodate.
I am always willing to learn something new.
It's too hot for tubes so back to beating on my motorcycles.
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It will eventually come to pass that this comparison takes place. One of my best audio friends has 1.7s in mye stands, and I am going to get magnestand 1.6s.
I trust both designs will sound different, better or worse will be based upon the beholder.
I've worked with John before and I trust his ears and his work.
My favorite part of this hobby is when I make friends with those I work with on my audio quest. John became a friend. I am grateful to know him.
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When I mentioned the "MUG" I was referring to the Planar Asylum. Same place, sorry for the confusion.
Yes, the forum software is dated, but I was referring to the content....mainly. :)
Anyways, the query of your thread was regarding Magnestand's so I don't want to steer it off course (further) with descriptions of my efforts. Sorry about that Steve.
Cheers,
Dave.
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If the old-style format of the Planar forum isn't to your taste, select "eThreads" from the view menu at the top of the page - the result is a look very like that of this forum.
Some of the debates there can get a little petty but there are many folks with a lot of expertise who are very willing to help - plus there is a wealth of info. in the archives if you care to look.
All that said, it's great to see this site thriving!
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Berndt,
You owe us a review.
Dave,
You should tell us about that sub.
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Magnestands any flavor, ie) mmg, 1.6 or 3.6 or just go with used 20.1's stock? All thoughts, suggestions, experiences welcome.
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I think the answer to that question depends more on the space you're putting them into - the 20.1s would likely overwhelm a room that is suited for the MMGs.
I think the most commonly "Gunned" Maggies are the MMG's but I know many people have sent 1.6s, & fewer the 3 series to Magnestand. John/PG claims they all benefit from the Magnestand treatment - though I think he would admit the improvement is most noticeable with the MMGs.
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I am totally thrilled to be on the que for this fall and cannot wait to go through this whole experience of hearing MMG's for the first time and then getting them turned into equal parts ear/eye candy for a most incredibly reasonable sum.
I'm willing to take the risk, having not heard them. I have dynamic speakers to fall back on but I have a strong hunch I will be more than satisfied.
And as far as running active, and going all DIY on the MMG's, I would only run active if I had a large sum of money to spend on a good high quality active crossover, nothing Behringer or the like, and I would want some training on how to use it properly, not just read some webpages and there you go, and I would want high quality amplification all around. That is currently not on the menu. Maybe in the future.
Meanwhile, I'll enjoy a very high quality passive crossover and a beautiful build and apparently be listening to some world beaters.
My plan is to get these and then add a GR-Research OB servo sub, and then add another if needed.
However, sure, I'm interested in seeing Davey's diy approach, but if he could post it in a seperate thread, and if he could somehow back up his claims of performing "well beyond" a Magnestand mod, then I think many people would find that interesting. But clearly those claims can only be met by comparing directly to a Gunn'd Maggie.
I think as far as aesthetics his mod might lack something compared to the Magnestand, even though they do look quite nice, but they are not quite the same level as Gunn'd, at leas the same as that pic, and I'd love to see how much he spent on the entire mod, total. No cheating.
:)
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I am totally thrilled to be on the queue for this fall and cannot wait to go through this whole experience of hearing MMGs for the first time and then getting them turned into equal parts ear/eye candy for a most incredibly reasonable sum.
I'm willing to take the risk, having not heard them. I have dynamic speakers to fall back on but I have a strong hunch I will be more than satisfied.
I suggest while you may not be that thrilled with the MMGs, stock (compared to your "conventional" monkey coffins :D ), you will be thrilled when they come back from PG. :)
And as far as running active, and going all DIY on the MMGs, I would only run active if I had a large sum of money to spend on a good high quality active crossover, nothing Behringer, and I would want some training on how to use it properly, not just read some webpages and there you go, and I would want high quality amplification all around. That is currently not on the menu. Maybe in the future.
Meanwhile, I'll enjoy a very high quality passive crossover and a beautiful build and apparently be listening to some world beaters.
You're correct about active. :) But IMO, PG's passive series XO - and, of course, his beautiful hardwood frames - will make them sound much better than stock ... but only if you have an amp that can drive them well. :)
What amp do you have?
My plan is to get these and then add a GR-Research OB servo sub, and then add another if needed.
Hold off before you buy those subs! :) If you're an organ afficionado or you like dub/electronica then, yes ... but otherwise, you may find you get more bang for your buck by upgrading other things.
Good luck! :)
Andy
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well currently I have a Virtue Two.2 being modified with Clarity Caps at Virtue. I hope to have it back in a week and a half.
So about 90 watts at 4ohms.
Virtue has a new Three coming out which looks interesting, and also ClassD has the new SDS-470 fully built with an audiocircle discount for $560. 500 watts @ 4ohms. 600 watts @ 2ohms stable. So Magnepan kinda power.
But I'm hoping my modded Virtue Two.2 is enough. It is a fantastic sounding amp and I just love it.
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well currently I have a Virtue Two.2 being modified with Clarity Caps at Virtue. I hope to have it back in a week and a half.
So about 90 watts at 4ohms.
Mmmm, only 90w into 4ohms. I suspect this won't be enough to make them really sing ... but you need to listen. And ask PG what he thinks - his customers use a wide variety of amps. If you like valves, I would say a 150w VTL would certainly fit the bill ... but 90w??? :?
Good luck,
Andy
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I don't have Gunned Maggies yet, but I did incorporate John's crossover on my MMGs. John claims with his crossover that MMGs have an impedance of about 5 ohms and sensitivity of about 92db. My room is 12.5 x 13.5 with 8' ceiling. The speakers are much more efficient than stock and I am using a 2 x 100 watts into 4 ohm tripath amp that plays them loud. :thumb: I also have a VTL ST-85 that puts out about 70 watts into 4 ohms and plays very loud.
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Rclark,
:)
I'm sure you'll be happy with Magnestand's. Magnepan's are good speakers no matter what you do to them.
Cheers,
Dave.
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Thanks Davey. :D
For me personally, I just have to have the Magnestand. His work just looks awesome. And please do post a thread of your mods, I'm sure people would find it fascinating. I know I would.
And to Andyr, you know, I told PG which amp I had and he didn't say anything one way or another. I do know that people are running Maggies with the Virtue amp and they claim it sounds really great. The Virtue amps are not super high power but they're very "torquey" and have a lot of grunt.
Apparently they thrive on 4ohm loads and sound best under that strain. People use Virtue amps to drive very large speakers. I'm currently running 8ohm monitors and only getting 55watts out of them but it is more than enough power to drive me out of the room at max volume.
I do imagine I will add another amp and it will either be the higher power Virtue Three coming soon, or I will possibly give the ClassD SDS-470 amp a try. 500 watts @ 4ohms outta get me all the way.
I do know that PG's mod increases the efficiency to 92dB so I'm fairly certain that post-mod my Virtue Two will be powerful enough. But we shall see.
Again, I'm new to planars, this is new territory for me. But I'm committed to trying this out.
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And to Andyr, you know, I told PG which amp I had and he didn't say anything one way or another. I do know that people are running Maggies with the Virtue amp and they claim it sounds really great. The Virtue amps are not super high power but they're very "torquey" and have a lot of grunt.
Apparently they thrive on 4ohm loads and sound best under that strain. People use Virtue amps to drive very large speakers. I'm currently running 8ohm monitors and only getting 55watts out of them but it is more than enough power to drive me out of the room at max volume.
That's good to hear, Rclark. Good luck! :thumb:
Regards,
Andy
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I've had Magnestand MMG's for three years now & I hope I never have to part with them! They replaced SMGa's that had upgraded crossovers. I've never tried the active route, only full range. I usually run a GB150D kit built amp with great results. I have an old BGW 500D pro amp that really delivers the bass, I'll use it in the winter when the heatsinks help heat my basement listening room.
There's a picture of my maggies in the "we want to see" thread. Best of luck!
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well I just made $175 towards my MMG's thanks to selling off my unused N3 cabinets. I almost want to sell my unused pair of Adire Brahma 15's but I don't think I could live with myself.
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Anyone here from Wisconsin?
Found a killer deal:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1319512344&/Magneplanar-Mmg'S-with-Magnest
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Oh man, if I was local, these would be mine.
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I just bought the MMG's above them. They looked really nice, the seller has a good rating, and the owner before him, he reports, was a classical musician so I know these were babied. Full equipment, boxes, paperwork/manual.
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrplan&1319586708&/Magnepan-MMG-black-/-natural--
$375 shipped! :D
That's more than $200 I'll save over new with shipping.
..VERY excited now to finally get to hear these things. I'll get them for about 3 months before I have to ship them off. This will be my second set of "hi-end" speakers. Moving from GR-Insignia monitors to these.
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I just bought the MMG's above them. They looked really nice, the seller has a good rating, and the owner before him, he reports, was a classical musician so I know these were babied. Full equipment, boxes, paperwork/manual.
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrplan&1319586708&/Magnepan-MMG-black-/-natural--
$375 shipped! :D
That's more than $200 I'll save over new with shipping.
Congratulations - I hope you enjoy them :) Be aware, though, that the Magnestanded MMGs are a significant step up in sonic quality - so they more than justify their additional cost.
Regards,
Andy
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Hi,
Hopefully I can add something to this thread in particular and this circle in general.
About a week ago I bought a pair of fully modded MG12QR's. The seller had gutted the internal xovers, from what I understand soldered in some new (of course better) wiring, built 2 nice looking external xovers (but no wood :green: ) and installed the Mye stands. So they were far from stock.
I had been thinking about planars for a while and this circle unavoidably steered me in the Magnepan direction. :D I had no idea what I was getting into but wanted to try a pair and these seemed like a good point to jump in on. I started combing through the AA threads since the owner had posted a lot on his journey to modding these Maggies. That's when I first ran across Peter Gunn's work.
But when I got my Maggies I immediately was impressed with what I heard (no audiophile descriptions here :scratch: ). And of course almost as immediately, I started wondering how they could sound better and what must their bigger brothers sound like.
After reading up on the PG website, I sent him an email just to let him know my situation. I ended up talking to him on the phone (his nickel) .Very easy to talk to and I was able to let him know what I thought of his work visually and asked what I might expect to hear if I engaged him to do my Maggies.
Of course I don't know how or if my Maggies sound better than stock so I told PG that I would take some time to get used to them and then let him know. And his backlog seems full. He said I would only be able to get in in the spring.
And reading the AA planar forum, it obvious there are some industrious DIYers there that do everything imaginable to their Maggies whether they are old or new.
All very interesting and exciting to tired old ears.
Gene
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With the smaller ones you can experiment with placement a lot, too.
Here's where I found the MMGs to work best:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50614)
Who woulda thought, hung up in the air but that's where they sound right to me. Pardon the appearance, that's a temporary lash up and yes, that is an old bar stool from the garage supporting the DMW.
At any rate, just a thought.
Congratulations on your purchase - I'm happy for you and I think you'll enjoy them. Mine are keepers!
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Thanks guys :)
Oh wow, already have a tracking number in a matter of hours This guy is going to get very nice feedback.
BTW the address of the seller was c/o a prominent record label in Hollywood, California, so I'm even less worried about condition than I was before. I'm very curious as to what they'll sound like, this will be my only real, dedicated time with a planar. I believe the only time I've ever heard a planar it was a Martin Logan Electrostat, the type with the built in sub. It was on the open showroom floor of a Fry's being demo'd with a football game, and they were placed far apart and straght ahead. They fired into a gargantuan space. I don't recall being particularly impressed.
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THose modified MMG's are going for $400 obo right now.
Anyway I got my MMG's today and I'll just say that I'm stunned and that they perform far better than I was anticipating, and play all sorts of types of music better than the monitors they replaced.
Here's my review of both the MMG and my Virtue Two.2 combo in the Virtue forum for whoever's interested:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82160.20
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I liked your review - it brought back a lot of memories from when they first came out and I ordered a pair after blowing up my JBLs one too many times.
Addicting things, aren't they?
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They're astonishing! :o
With my setup I can honestly say I feel totally satisfied with the sound and for the first time I can say I feel no urge to improve things. The system is beyond fabulous.
I can't even imagine what better would sound like.
You guys made me think I was going to be completely underwhelmed and only be able to play certain types of music, wasn't going to be able to run my sub, and need kilowatt monoblocks. :green:
I was happily, believe me, relieved to discover none of that was true, at least with my gear. I credit the Virtue amp (modded, hi pass at 80hz, ClarityCaps) with my very large linear power supply, Astron 10a, 8 amps continuous, 10 amps peak.
Also, my Emotiva Dac is very high output I think, 12 volts peak, 2 amps. So I've got a lot of drive into the MMG's.
It's flat out incredible. I'm listening to jazz right now and there is a sax in my room.
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Perhaps we do tend to soft peddle things a bit too much.
Enjoy your evening, gentlemen (and ladies).
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I mean, I'm listening to 2112 by Rush right now and they absolutely wail, but in that pristine, pure, real live Maggie way.
Honestly I was expecting to kind of shrug my way through till December and listen to nothing but jazz until then. I didn't expect them to blow away my monitors and play rock.
Can't help gushing, this combo is the best sound I've ever heard. I've been around nice hifi's, but never planars.
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...I'll get them for about 3 months before I have to ship them off...
I hope that you post what they are like when you get the MMGs back. I'm sending mine in next Spring.