[James Romeyn]

Edit: Dream Maker LCS won Tyson's 2013 RMAF "Best Of The Best" Award!   

Duke,
When can we start leaking various details about the RMAF speaker and system components?  I ask because today wife Debra said we should repeat the prestigious award winning model name often and loudly, a name AudioKinesis fans well know and love. 

For reader's info: depending on time constraints, we may increase "buzz" just prior to the show with me setting up the all-new model (with an old name) in So. San Francisco at the home of member Berndt, proud owner of legendary Jazz Modules.

Ancillary components at Bill's are all custom DIY tubes: phono, line preamp, and mono blocs, and a custom machined TT unlike anything you've seen before.  My last visit Bill played Ozzie Osborne and it was as close to Ozzie being in the room as you're likely to hear, at live levels and with no audible distortion.  Other music was similarly exemplary.   

My sympathy to his cat(s), who should plan to visit neighborhood friends that day! 

[Duke]

Duke,
When can we start leaking various details about the RMAF speaker and system components?  I ask because today wife Debra said we should repeat the prestigious award winning model name often and loudly, a name AudioKinesis fans well know and love. 

Okay Jim, if you're ready to start going public, that's fine with me!

Jim and I are working on his innovative variation on the Dream Maker concept - that is, focusing on getting the direct and reverberant fields right, and he has refined that idea to a level beyond anything I've done on my own.   So we'll be using the Dream Maker name for this design, as the basic concept is the same, but the implementation will be something you haven't seen before, at least not refined to this extent. 

You've heard the phrase "thinking outside the box?"  Well, Jim thinks outside the room that the box is in.  And I have learned to trust his ears very highly. 

I'll let Jim go into detail as he sees fit, as this is his invention.  My role is the nuts and bolts of crossover and enclosure design, and working with Jim on some of the details of room interaction.

Duke LeJeune

[jtwrace]

OK.  Got the popcorn!  GO!!!! 

 

[bluemike]

interesting .. on to you James ..

[gregfisk]

 

[James Romeyn]

I would have replied earlier but for whatever reason I did not receive the normal reply notice for this thread. 

Do the names "Jazz Module" and "Dream Maker" mean anything to readers?  If so, read on.

Strangely, this single show system simultaneously comprises reissues of both speakers, including the TAS 2008 Golden Ear Award Winning Dream Maker. 

I imagine Duke will assign a particular suffix to differentiate the earlier Jazz Module from this new version, possibly the simple suffix "II."  Duke can address that suffix separately. 

The new Dream Maker "LCS" suffix stands for "Late Ceiling Splash."  Over the next few weeks we'll slowly reveal information about LCS' new and unique radiation pattern unlike anything currently available. 

RMAF show attendees shall determine for themselves, exactly what is the "LCS" effect.  The current plan is to employ a switch located directly behind the Atma Sphere S30 OTL.  In one position listeners will hear the system with the "LCS Effects Speaker" playing.  In the other position listeners hear the "LCS Effects Speaker" muted.  One of your friendly vendor employees will flip the switch back and forth on your signal.   

At the show we'll determine the correct level settings on the preamp for same level with vs. without the LCS Efffects Speaker.  I presume the Atma Sphere preamp has remote control but Duke can comment on that too. 

I like that the Atma Sphere preamp has polarity inverting switch for the occasional attendee who is fond of such function.     

[jtwrace]

Kits or complete?  Rough idea on cost?

[James Romeyn]

Kits or complete?  Rough idea on cost?

Duke never mentioned anything about kits.  Generally his crossovers are not very amenable to kit builders, and I've not heard much in the way of glowing reports from Duke about the whole kit "Gestalt."

Each channel of Dream Maker LCS comprises two, completely separate speaker enclosures.  The first thing you'll see when you walk in is a medium tower with striking resemblance to the Jazz Module.  (This first pair is already sold, so finish on this first show pair is TBD later.)

Behind each front tower is a medium sized box sitting horizontal on the floor firing up toward the ceiling, the "Effects Speaker" of Dream Maker LCS.   

The combination of front tower + the above described "Effects Speaker" is the "Dream Maker LCS" system comprising sum total four boxes in stereo.  The front tower playing by itself is Jazz Module 2.0.   

This explains how one system has two completely different names:

Effects Speaker on: "Dream Maker LCS," four piece system in stereo, each tower in front has behind it a 12" tall box firing up toward the ceiling.
Effects Speaker off: "Jazz Module 2.0," two towers in stereo

I feel more comfortable if Duke mentions prices because he's the final word on that. 

There are sum total three dealers for the speakers described herein, myself, Duke and Aaron Goecke in Minnesota.

Dream Maker LCS promises a long list of superlative performance attributes.  In fact, I'm happy to report that Dream Maker LCS performance qualities seem to address every single complaint I read in show reports. 

For now, I'll address an inter-related set of qualities, sweet spot size, image size, image outline, density, and staging.

Most of us doing this for any length of time are familiar with the following apparent tightrope walked by designers.  In one corner we have the extreme "immersion" effect of omni-polar radiation.  Such radiation immerses the listener in a highly dense field unlike anything else on earth.  Once you hear it you won't forget it.  The flip side with omni-polar radiation is that it can and usually does (always?) bloat image size and makes for fuzzy image perimeters.

Then there's excellent electrostatic technology, with uncanny spatial effects including image accuracy, as long as you don't swivel your head 15 degrees either direction (especially with medium sized flat panels).     

One of many design elements inherent in LCS is to approach or equal the immersion effect of the largest omni-pole combined with accurate image size and image outlines, plus a huge sweet spot standing or sitting.  At least three non-audiophiles (all musicians) who auditioned LCS immediately reported words like "wow, what space" and "interesting 'spatial' effects."  One person heard the system several times without LCS.  When he first heard it with LCS he immediately smiled and blurted, "What took you so long to get it right?" 

Well beyond having a "large sweet spot," LCS benefits accrue at the room threshold and even outside the room.  "Density" replicates live music cues at least as good if not better than anything prior.  Non audiophiles, party goers whose only context for "tube" is "river tubing," can enjoy LCS effect way outside the sweet spot whether standing or sitting, and even in the hallway or next room over.  LCS effects draw non-audiophiles in to enjoy music without the typical necessity of sitting in the sweet spot, more so than anything I've heard before.  But image size and image outline are still accurate.  Really accurate.  Bring software with solo acapella singer or solo acoustic guitarist.

I keep thinking of Muhammad Ali's great quote, "Dance like a butterfly, sting like a bee."  In this analogy "sting" is density, image layering in three planes, and stage size in three planes playing a 90 piece orchestra with huge chorus.  "Dance" is a tight yet natural image size, image focus, and image outline playing a solo singer, or proper replication of scale with John Pizzarelli's 7-string arch top next to a trombone.     

Later I'll describe one particular feature associated with the above, a byproduct rather than an intentional design goal.  It just happens to be fun and unique, an interesting anomaly to sample occasionally alone or to demonstrate to visitors/guests. 

[Duke]

Kits or complete?  Rough idea on cost?

This system will not be offered as a kit, sorry. 

Until I know what the actual enclosures costs are, these are just estimates:

The main speakers will be about $5000/pair in "regular" (veneered front baffle); and $6000/pair in "fancy" (solid wood front baffle).  This pricing will apply to several woods including walnut. 

The effects epeaker will be about $4000/pair, veneered to match the main speakers.

So the price of the complete system will be nine to ten grand, with exotic woods extra of course.   

Note that the main speakers all by themselves will constitute the "Jazz Module 2.0", while the main speakers + effects speakers will constitute the "Dream Maker LCS" system.   So there's an upgrade path for people who want to get there in stages. 

Considering that the original Jazz Modules were $4500 a pair when they first came out in 2006, and that the subsequent original Dream Makers were twice the price, I think we're in a reasonable price ballpark here, especially since we're making improvements to both.  In the next few days I'll post some details about the Jazz Module 2.0 in a separate thread.

[Larkston Zinaspic]

What an interesting way for Duke to re-examine two of his "Legacy" designs and sort of 'morph' them into something completely different...and unexpected.

I'm probably not going to be able to attend RMAF, but I still wanna see some photos of the mighty Dream Maker LCS

~Greg

[James Romeyn]

Duke can clarify the following point. 

I heard somewhere last night that current Jazz Module owners just might possibly be able to add the so-called "Effects Speaker" of Dream Maker LCS to their current system.

[Duke]

What an interesting way for Duke to re-examine two of his "Legacy" designs and sort of 'morph' them into something completely different...and unexpected.

I'm probably not going to be able to attend RMAF, but I still wanna see some photos of the mighty Dream Maker LCS

~Greg

Thank you, Greg!  But giving credit where credit's due, this is Jim Romeyn's invention.  I can take credit for recognizing that his LCS system offers improvements over my original bipolar configuration, and for being practical-minded enough to not want to compete against something that beats me at my own game!

As Jim mentioned, it looks like the Effects Speaker will be backwards-compatible with the original Jazz Modules.  May end up being compatible with a lot of speakers, depending on how much complexity one wishes to embrace. 

[gregfisk]

O.K., I'm awake now ! This sounds very interesting and I can't wait to see what this set up looks like together. Is the effects speaker a rectagular speaker box sitting on the floor and is it a single driver or something else?

Greg

[James Romeyn]

O.K., I'm awake now ! This sounds very interesting and I can't wait to see what this set up looks like together. Is the effects speaker a rectagular speaker box sitting on the floor and is it a single driver or something else?

Greg

Greg,
Thanks for asking! 

In a typical setup such as at RMAF, providing ideal "Late Ceiling Splash," the "Effects Speaker" sits Low-Rider like, with what would normally be its rear panel face down, firing up at the ceiling.  In the case of "Late" as we use it, we achieve Toole's target delay time of 10ms (3.44M, 11.3 feet) even for users who must site the ES close to or even touching the front wall! 

More details coming, but nothing but good things result from using the Ceiling for ambiance/reflective surface as opposed to any other boundary: intensity, room fill, stage size in all three planes, proximity to the listener, increased vertical height of images and overall musical energy in a way no mono pole can achieve by simply increasing driver height.   

The ES is a true full range speaker.  We plan to install a grill, and may or may not expose the drivers for visitors (probably will show the drivers, but leaving the option for it to remain a mystery).  It's not a single driver, and less than six drivers.

Because it's full range, dimensions are (come in, Duke!) about (HWD) 12" x 20" x 26".  Hey, it's a real speaker, about 80# IIRC! 

We are/were not about to ignore nor argue with Toole's recommendation the the Main Speaker and Effects Speaker share spectral curves.  Duke designed the MS and ES to share spectral curves even though they don't share mid bass drivers and they have different radiation pattern targeted for their different applications in the system. 

The ceiling is always the ideal primary boundary for reflective surface, with one exception: Beyond a certain ceiling height ES performance may not be ideal.  Frankly we don't know yet what's too tall but I estimate about 12' flat ceiling, maybe taller peak for cathedral ceiling.  Users with such ceiling have many options.  A simple flat acoustically opaque surface (18" x 18") located about about 7-1/2' above the ES is a good performance option.  Other options are to flip the ES vertical to fire toward the front wall, nearby side wall, or nearby corner. 

[Duke]

Another option is to site the ES vertically, firing toward the front wall, nearby side wall, or nearby corner.

There's a lot hidden between the lines in this sentence.

You can experiment with aiming the effects speaker in different directions, changing the time delay and/or arrival angle and/or diffusiveness (is that a word??) of the first arrival reflections from the effects speakers.

Theoretically, the ideal arrival directions are roughly 10:00 and 2:00.  But relatively long path lengths for longer delays are also desirable, and most room geometries give longer delays if you fire the effects speaker in a different direction.  Jim experimented extensively and discovered that the long time delay we get from firing up from the floor and bouncing off the ceiling is of greater benefit than having the reflections arriving from a more ideal direction.  There is no published research making such comparisions, and we can't say for sure that this will hold true in every room, but we think that in most rooms upfiring will probably work best.  That being said, we would encourage users to conduct their own experiments.   The Dream Maker LCS system gives you an enormous increase in freedom to optimiize - you can make significant adjustments to what your system is doing in the reverberant field totally independent of the first-arrival sound.     

And all this passively - no additional processing required.   You will even have the option of using either parallel or series connection of the main and effects speaker for each channel, depending on whether your amplification is happier with a 4 ohm or 16 ohm load.     
 
There is unfortunately a persistent myth that series connection of speakers effectively degrades amplifier damping factor.   JBL either started or seemingly validated this myth by publishing an erroneous paper on the subject decades ago.   The fact is, the speaker's electrical Q, or Qes (which is what is supposedly doubled by series connection, according to the myth) is a function of the ratio Re/Bl, or voice coil resistance divided by flux strength in the magnetic gap.  Adding a second speaker in series does double the voice coil resistance, but it also doubles the total flux strength in the magnetic gap(s), so Qes ramains unchanged.   It gets a little bit more complicated for a system like this where we're wiring non-identical speakers in series, but I take that into account.

[poseidonsvoice]

Okay. Pics?

Best,
Anand.

[Duke]

Okay. Pics?

Best,
Anand.

My woodworker probably won't have the enclosures finished before mid September, as that's just where we are in his pipeline.   

[James Romeyn]

Toole's 10:00 and 2:00 reflection angles are useful references, but it's difficult to achieve his 10ms delay target (ambiance effects vs. main speaker direct output).  Long wall siting is almost mandatory.  Plus there is no nearby side wall in the case of someone who wants to employ a Center Channel for a dual use HT system or a three channel system such as Trinaural.

LCS works with any wall dimension, it works with the shortest legal ceiling height, and it works in any speaker location, even surrounds if the room is large enough.  (Hint, hint, 7.1 Dream Maker LCS anyone?)   

[ngchaisoon]

Ignoring the higher cost, will  4pcs Jazz Module 2.0 perform equally well compared to Dream Maker LCS system?

[James Romeyn]

Ignoring the higher cost, will  4pcs Jazz Module 2.0 perform equally well compared to Dream Maker LCS system?

Sorry for any confusion regarding the nomenclature!  Jazz Module 2.0 is a two-piece system (stereo).  Dream Maker LCS is four pieces (stereo). 

If one disconnects two "Effects Speakers" of Dream Maker LCS, the remaining two front firing "Main Speakers" comprise Jazz Module 2.0. 

Conversely, if one adds "Effects Speakers" to Jazz Module 2.0, the resulting system is "Dream Maker LCS."

When unused speakers are present in a sound room (e.g. disconnected "Effects Speakers"), it seems prudent to short the unused speaker inputs to prevent it from degrading performance.