AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: lacro on 7 Jul 2013, 03:49 pm

Title: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 7 Jul 2013, 03:49 pm
I am cutting out the pieces for X-CS center even though I don't have the kit yet. but I am really confused with the plans. Has anybody built these and can clarify? It looks like the outside dimensions are 20" wide X 15.5" deep X 8.5" high. There is no dimension shown in the drawing for the top/bottom cut size. If I look at the front view, it looks like the top/bottom should be 18.5" X 14" I think the sides should be 8.5" X 15.5" The side view has me a little confused :scratch:
 I think in my haste to dodge raindrops I may have made my cuts wrong, but I think they can work anyway. I cut my top/bottom the same length as front/back at 20" but my sides are cut at 7" X 14" to inset the ends rather the being on the outside which I now think the plans show. My inside/outside dimensions should still be correct. Anybody see a problem doing it my way.

 I have one more question: The B Braces have a 10" long leg and a 3.5" short leg. I assume this brace gets glued against the back baffle? and does the long 10" leg go to top or bottom of the cabinet?

Thanks,
Larry
Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: Danny Richie on 7 Jul 2013, 06:27 pm
Quote
I think in my haste to dodge raindrops I may have made my cuts wrong, but I think they can work anyway. I cut my top/bottom the same length as front/back at 20" but my sides are cut at 7" X 14" to inset the ends rather the being on the outside which I now think the plans show. My inside/outside dimensions should still be correct. Anybody see a problem doing it my way.

That's okay. You can do that. Some people cut everything to the outside dimensions then put a 45 degree angle cut on everything so all of their joints are at 45's.

Quote
The B Braces have a 10" long leg and a 3.5" short leg. I assume this brace gets glued against the back baffle? and does the long 10" leg go to top or bottom of the cabinet?

The long leg goes in the top of the cabinet. The short leg goes on the bottom to leave room for mounting the crossover in the floor of the cabinet.
Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: mlundy57 on 9 Jul 2013, 02:47 am
Check out this build thread  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100369.msg1012494#msg1012494

Scroll down to Reply #6. Peter has some good step by step pictures of his CS build. It really helped me figure out the CS plans.

Mike

Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: lacro on 9 Jul 2013, 11:27 pm
That's okay. You can do that. Some people cut everything to the outside dimensions then put a 45 degree angle cut on everything so all of their joints are at 45's.

The long leg goes in the top of the cabinet. The short leg goes on the bottom to leave room for mounting the crossover in the floor of the cabinet.

Thanks Danny.....
Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: lacro on 9 Jul 2013, 11:35 pm
Check out this build thread  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100369.msg1012494#msg1012494

Scroll down to Reply #6. Peter has some good step by step pictures of his CS build. It really helped me figure out the CS plans.

Mike

Mike, Thanks for the link to Peter's build. It does help clarify the process. Actually it looks like Peter cut his sides to be   inset just as I had cut mine. I guess it can work either way :thumb: This looks like it's going to be fun gluing all the pieces without using biscuits!

Larry
Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: mlundy57 on 10 Jul 2013, 01:30 am
Larry,

Good luck. I don't have a biscuit cutter so I tried using 1/4" dowels. No matter how careful I was using a drill press and drill guide I still ended up with some edges not matching up and had to use a rasp and sanding block to even things up.

I also had a devil of a time getting clamping pressure on the short sections and the center of the braces. I still need to get the brace A's cut and installed into my CS Encore cabinet. 

Mike
Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: lacro on 10 Jul 2013, 03:45 pm
Larry,

Good luck. I don't have a biscuit cutter so I tried using 1/4" dowels. No matter how careful I was using a drill press and drill guide I still ended up with some edges not matching up and had to use a rasp and sanding block to even things up.

I also had a devil of a time getting clamping pressure on the short sections and the center of the braces. I still need to get the brace A's cut and installed into my CS Encore cabinet. 

Mike

 Mike,
 Did you use dowel centers for alignment? They work pretty good. I think I will try using spline joints. I have plenty of wood strips left over from boat building, and I can either use my table saw and or my router to cut the spline grooves. I want to use epoxy for glue to help eliminate seam print through so I won't need heavy clamping. I just need the splines for alignment.

Larry
Title: Re: X-CS Encore Plans confusion
Post by: mlundy57 on 10 Jul 2013, 08:39 pm
Larry,

Cut the groves a little oversize so the splines have some play. This will help you align the parts easier.

That was the problem with the dowels, no wiggle room. Mating the individual pieces to the bottom worked fine, it was when I put the top on and had to align all the dowels up that I had the problem. Getting all those dowel holes exactly perfect in a 14" x 20" piece (too big for my drill press) is next to impossible. If even one of them is slightly off something won't lone up perfectly. Thankfully wood is forgiving. A rasp, sanding block and some elbow grease and everything even.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 20 Jul 2013, 03:05 pm
 I cut the pieces for my X-CS Encore build. I am using splines to help align everything during glue-up. I layed out the top and bottom together so I could use my router and strait edge to simultaneously cut the spline grooves accurately. It worked good :thumb:

 I got the plunge router base for my birthday, and It sure makes life easier with the little Bosch trim router. All spline groves are cut and have been dry fitted. My splines will be a loose fit to help get everything lined up and square. I will be using thickened epoxy for glue which will take up spline looseness.

 I am going to try a different look for the front baffle, but I am making a regular one as a back up in case it fails.

Larry

(http://i.imgur.com/4hFwuQql.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/pK1z55Ol.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dmZeS1bl.jpg)

 
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 21 Jul 2013, 11:53 pm
Looking good Larry,  anxious to see what you  have planned for the front baffle

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 5 Aug 2013, 12:10 am
 I got some more work done over this weekend. When  I built my X-LS Encores I didn't do any upgrades including No-Rez. I used thick floor tiles for dampening, and fiberglass insulation. I figured it didn't make much sense to use No-Rez for the center only. However, I am going to upgrade the cross overs for both the X-LS Encores, and The X-CS Encores.
 
So.. I decided to again use the thick floor tiles in this quite complex X-CS speaker box.
My idea to use splines to align everything has so far worked great.
 
 My original splines were too loose a fit, and the grain orientation was not very strong, so I ripped some strips (splines) from 3MM Baltic Birch plywood, but they were a bit tight. I ran them through my planer and got a nice fit.

 My decision to use the floor tiles presented the same problem using No-Rez, too many things in the way, requiring a lot of cuts/fits. Because I had cut all my spline grooves for the top and bottom at the same time which worked great! I decided to try applying the floor tiles to all surfaces before gluing the cabinets together.

 This method took a bit of thinking/measuring, but so far has worked out very well. I don't have to try and fit all the pieces into tight spaces. I used contact cement to glue the tiles, so working on flat panels was much easier. 

 I now have to decide what to use for the foam layer. being a non ported enclosure, I am no sure what is the best choice.

(http://i.imgur.com/8JzMOz6l.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/2pyLYFCl.jpg)

My X-LS Encores:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.140 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.140)




 
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 5 Aug 2013, 01:00 am
Larry,

Moving right along there. I wouldn't have the nerve to install the damping material before glue up. No matter how hard I'd try I would never get everything to line up. Plus, I didn't know exactly where the crossover board would go or how much room it would take up since I hadn't built it when I glued the cabinet up. 

Yes it was a lot of pieces but NoRez is very easy to cut with a table saw and pair of shop scissors and it's peel and stick nature make it really easy to install.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 5 Aug 2013, 01:23 am
Have to  go with Mike  here,  I could never   put the dampening material in before gluing up  the cabinets,  I'd have a  mess on  my  hands   :rotflmao:

When I did my N3's Larry,  I used this  stuff for foam
http://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/acoustic.html

It is very similar to the no rez foam layer and it was pretty cheap

Coming along nicely 

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: bdp24 on 5 Aug 2013, 11:40 pm
Is it a good idea to but braces over floor tiles, or is braces against the cabinet walls with floor tiles in between a better idea?
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 6 Aug 2013, 12:49 am
I'd make  sure the braces were glued wood  to wood..

-jsy
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 6 Aug 2013, 12:30 pm
Larry,

 I wouldn't have the nerve to install the damping material before glue up. No matter how hard I'd try I would never get everything to line up.
Mike

Mike,
 I don't know why you say that :scratch:. I think it makes a lot of sense :lol:. Trying to get all the damping material into the box with all the braces in the way would be a nightmare for me :nono:. Doing it the way I am will make life easier. If I was using No-Rez I would do it the same way.

 What doesn't show well in my photos is the spline groves in the top and bottom, all mating braces, and sides. The spline slots and the glue surfaces were protected with masking tape when I glued in the floor tiles with contact cement. The only thing I have left to do with the floor tiles is make a template, and route out the locations for the diagonal braces so they will be glued to the MDF, not the floor tiles.

 Whatever I use for foam will also be glued in before final cabinet assembly. My goal is to have everything done so I don't have to work in the tight spaces of this complex box design.

Larry
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 6 Aug 2013, 12:51 pm
Is it a good idea to but braces over floor tiles, or is braces against the cabinet walls with floor tiles in between a better idea?

All braces will be epoxy glued to the raw MDF, not the tiles.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 6 Aug 2013, 10:35 pm
Larry,

You don't know me. The more things I try to do at the same time the more likely I am to screw it up. I even tried measuring out all the pieces of NoRez with the idea of cutting everything out first then just sticking them in. I quickly gave up and went back to installing them one piece at a time. I'd find a number of pieces that had one dimension in common, cut out a strip to that size on the band saw then measure and cut individual pieces off the strip one at a time. That way I didn't waste any of the NoRez.

The braces are an issue. The B's and C's weren't bad to work around, a lot of straight cuts, except for where I put the crossover. It was the Brace A's that were a pain on the LS's so for the CS I put the damping material in from the back up to where the Brace A's were going to go then glued in the brace A's then added the rest of the NoRez.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 8 Aug 2013, 10:27 pm
Larry,

What's that you're using for a straight edge, a piece of aluminum channel?

Also, nice looking kayak, what I can see of it. I've thought about building a kit boat from Pygmy or CLC for a few years. A kit would be the height of my ambition though. Nice as a strip boat looks I wouldn't want to tackle it.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 9 Aug 2013, 12:15 am
Larry,

What's that you're using for a straight edge, a piece of aluminum channel?

Also, nice looking kayak, what I can see of it. I've thought about building a kit boat from Pygmy or CLC for a few years. A kit would be the height of my ambition though. Nice as a strip boat looks I wouldn't want to tackle it.

Mike

 Mike, Actually its an aluminum 4' long clamp/straight edge thingy.

 Thanks for the boat comment. It was my passion for several years, having built SEVERAL strip built kayaks. However, my first kayak build was a S&G Pygmy. I know it's off topic for this forum so I won't post any photos. You can PM me if you want photos or more boat building info including first build suggestions.

Larry
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 17 Oct 2014, 08:09 pm
I'm back! 
 Now that I have a lot more time :hyper: I need to finish some speaker projects, and try new ones :green:
It looks like everybody has moved onto the latest and greatest new speakers, and I am still messing with the X series :? That's ok, I hope to catch up soon...

I want to finish my X-CS Encore center and upgrade my X-LS Encores for my small room set-up. The stock Encores sound great, but now that I have a lot more confidence in soldering on PC boards, I am ready to upgrade :thumb:

I don't yet have the X-CS Encore kit. Does anyone have the crossover exact external dimensions, especially the mounting hole center to center spacing (L&W)? I want to glue the front baffle on the cabinet before ordering the kit so I can start the finishing process. It would be nice to have the crossover mounting holes pre-drilled.

Here's some pics of my latest progress, using splines on all joints really makes the process a lot easier. It has allowed me to dry fit all parts except baffle and back. This allowed me to mark the locations where the damping material goes exactly, which worked perfectly, and should work the same with No-Rez

 The glue-up was done with thickened Epoxy which allows a lot of time to work, and doesn't require heavy clamping or as many clamps as wood glue does. The splines aligned everything so well, it was easy to put together without worrying about something slipping :nono: It's been my experience with using epoxy is that it helps prevent seam print through..

(http://i.imgur.com/m0go7IWl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/1Lwm0sGl.jpg)

This is a 'BIG SPEAKER BOX'

(http://i.imgur.com/dXwdcFAl.jpg)




Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Oct 2014, 09:21 pm
Long time no see Larry  !
The cabinet is looking good.   Keep the pics coming.

I've never used the splines but it looks like  a good idea.  I used dados on my H-frame they also made assembly  a lot easier.

Are you still enjoying the  3110/3116 chip amps ?  I  lost track of the thread some time ago

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 18 Oct 2014, 03:33 pm
Long time no see Larry  !
The cabinet is looking good.   Keep the pics coming.

I've never used the splines but it looks like  a good idea.  I used dados on my H-frame they also made assembly  a lot easier.

Are you still enjoying the  3110/3116 chip amps ?  I  lost track of the thread some time ago

-jay

Hi Jay,
 Yeah - It's been awhile. I have been obsessed with Class D amps for awhile now. I am listening right now to a TPA3116 heavily modded with a 3 tube pre-amp in front of it driving my X-LS Encores :thumb:

Dados would work great too, just requires a lot more hogging of material. I like the spline idea especially for someone doing their first build, as all you need is a trim router, 1/8" bit, and a straight edge.

 I will keep the pics coming even though it's boring seeing someone build an older design when everyone else is building the latest....

Larry
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Oct 2014, 03:58 pm
I will keep the pics coming even though it's boring seeing someone build an older design when everyone else is building the latest....

Larry

Ahh, not ture .   ALL   the build threads are enjoyable no matter what the model  :thumb:

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 18 Oct 2014, 05:04 pm
Hi Jay,
 Yeah - It's been awhile. I have been obsessed with Class D amps for awhile now. I am listening right now to a TPA3116 heavily modded with a 3 tube pre-amp in front of it driving my X-LS Encores :thumb:

Dados would work great too, just requires a lot more hogging of material. I like the spline idea especially for someone doing their first build, as all you need is a trim router, 1/8" bit, and a straight edge.

 I will keep the pics coming even though it's boring seeing someone build an older design when everyone else is building the latest....

Larry

Larry,

Looking good. Yes it is a big speaker (and heavy too).

Nothing wrong with the older designs. In addition to the Wedges I just finished I am currently building three X-CS Encores for my stepdaughter to use in a left/center/right arrangement, two pairs of X-MTM Encores for my niece and nephew and a pair of X-Omnis for my stepson to audition.

The CS-Encores are built and veneered, ready for final sanding then finishing. I will finish installing the NoRez in the MTM-Encores today and start gluing on the front baffles. I'm just starting on the X-Omnis. I hope to finish cutting the parts and routing the driver and brace openings this weekend. I'm trying to get them to a point where they are playable but unfinished by Thanksgiving so my stepson can hear them when he visits.

My point is that the older designs are alive and well, still being built and still fantastic speakers. Plus, at their price point they still can't be beat.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 18 Oct 2014, 05:26 pm
Larry,

Looking good. Yes it is a big speaker (and heavy too).

Nothing wrong with the older designs. In addition to the Wedges I just finished I am currently building three X-CS Encores for my stepdaughter to use in a left/center/right arrangement, two pairs of X-MTM Encores for my niece and nephew and a pair of X-Omnis for my stepson to audition.

The CS-Encores are built and veneered, ready for final sanding then finishing. I will finish installing the NoRez in the MTM-Encores today and start gluing on the front baffles. I'm just starting on the X-Omnis. I hope to finish cutting the parts and routing the driver and brace openings this weekend. I'm trying to get them to a point where they are playable but unfinished by Thanksgiving so my stepson can hear them when he visits.

My point is that the older designs are alive and well, still being built and still fantastic speakers. Plus, at their price point they still can't be beat.

Mike

Hey Mike,
 I am amazed how many great looking builds you have been doing lately :thumb:
Are you using stock crossover boards on the you X-CS Encores? I am looking for outside dimensions for it, and the hole spacing, so I can pre-drill the mounting holes.

Larry
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Oct 2014, 05:52 pm
I THINK the CS uses the same board as the  X LS Encore

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107161)

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 18 Oct 2014, 06:12 pm
Hey Mike,
 I am amazed how many great looking builds you have been doing lately :thumb:
Are you using stock crossover boards on the you X-CS Encores? I am looking for outside dimensions for it, and the hole spacing, so I can pre-drill the mounting holes.

Larry

Larry,

I do have some of the stock boards. The outside dimensions are 5 1/8" x 5 1/2". The hole spacing is 4 15/16" on the long side and 4 9/16" on the short side. The cross square measurement for the hole spacing is 6 11/16".

Another option would be to use SPAX screws. I like them because you don't need to drill a pilot hole, they are self-cutting. Makes installing the boards a lot easier. Around here I get them at Home Depot.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 18 Oct 2014, 06:17 pm
I THINK the CS uses the same board as the  X LS Encore

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107161)

-jay

I don't know if the CS crossover was able to be squeezed onto the same physical size board as the LS but the actual crossovers for the LS and CS are different.

Mike

Oops, just saw your picture.  I didn't pay attention to that part of the board. I guess they are the same physical size.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Oct 2014, 06:22 pm
Just thought it would be the same board  being that  it has the CS label on it   :scratch:

Another option especially if he is upgrading the c/o anyhow , would be to  hard wire it on his own baord  like  you did  .... not sure if you're into doing that or not Larry
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 18 Oct 2014, 07:04 pm
Just thought it would be the same board  being that  it has the CS label on it   :scratch:

Another option especially if he is upgrading the c/o anyhow , would be to  hard wire it on his own baord  like  you did  .... not sure if you're into doing that or not Larry

If you are going to hardwire it you have to upgrade the inductors also. It's not really all that much more cost to add the inductors, wire and solder and build the board yourself. To me it sounds better this way so I bought the additional parts and built out all the boards.

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 18 Oct 2014, 10:30 pm
Mike/Jay,
 Thanks for the help and suggestions. The suggestion to build the crossovers myself would be good if I was starting from scratch with the 3 speakers. However, I already have the crossovers for X-LS Encores, and I am going to upgrade those, as well as the X-CS Encore crossover.
 Mike - Thanks for the exact dimensions! I made a template using them, and pre-drilled the screw holes. Now I can finish lining the box with fiberglass before gluing the front baffle on.

Larry

 
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Oct 2014, 09:10 pm
Hey guys,

All of those crossovers are different but they did share the same circuit board.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 19 Oct 2014, 10:13 pm
I finished putting in the rest of my fiberglass over the floor tiles using 3M 77 spray glue. Never again - the next time will be No Rez for sure :duh:


(http://i.imgur.com/ITx8qIkl.jpg)

soaked all glue surfaces with unthickened epoxy with multiple applications, here I am starting to apply the epoxy thickened with Wests 403 filler to make a strong glue

(http://i.imgur.com/K5WxoyOl.jpg)

Front baffle clamped down lightly. The epoxy that squeezed out has been scraped off before it sets up

(http://i.imgur.com/zEKVjiNl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 21 Oct 2014, 08:01 pm
Got some more done...

(http://i.imgur.com/17i0gwel.jpg)

Had enough ink to do the first round on the edges. It's impossible to find Dye type, alcohol base ink in my town. I will have to get some on line, or maybe I will switch to aniline dye which I will have to buy on line as well :(

(http://i.imgur.com/WzQc5OQl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 23 Oct 2014, 04:50 pm
Done with the India Ink staining - almost ready for epoxy...

(http://i.imgur.com/cFJtsFPl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 24 Oct 2014, 04:17 pm
Fisrt coat of epoxy - thinned a little with alcohol, and tinted with graphite powder.

(http://i.imgur.com/nOjL8MGl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 25 Oct 2014, 04:48 pm
Sanded off the high spots from the first round of epoxy, and added another coat of not thinned/black tinted epoxy. The epoxy really hardens the MDF.

(http://i.imgur.com/CyDmbnml.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ztTPWtDl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/8JbpnTjl.jpg)


Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 26 Oct 2014, 05:53 pm
Second coat of epoxy sanded, and third applied, this time not tinted. This is a multi-step process to build enough epoxy thickness so it can be sanded smooth. I know it's boring watching paint (epoxy) dry :icon_lol:

(http://i.imgur.com/8Lb0gx6l.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/1fB2l6Wl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mresseguie on 26 Oct 2014, 07:20 pm
I appreciate your posting these. It's all new to me.  :thumb:
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Oct 2014, 07:31 pm
I appreciate your posting these. It's all new to me.  :thumb:

Michael,  all  the "watching epoxy dry" is well worth the effort , check out Larry's results from his XLS Encore build !!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.100

(about halfway down the page)

jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mresseguie on 26 Oct 2014, 10:48 pm
Jay,

Nice! Thank you. Now I wish I hadn't gone cheapo on my newest speaker build. Next time!

Michael
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 5 Nov 2014, 07:14 pm
Got some more epoxy applied, and sanded smooth. Yesterday I applied 6 coats of shellac. I tried brushing, but the Zinnser Sealcoat is already mixed with alcohol, and drys super quick, making it difficult to get a brush/rag finish without streaks.

So....I used my little touch-up spray gun to apply the shellac. It worked great. The little gun doesn't require much air volume which is good because my little compressor only delivers 4 CFM. I set the pressure at 20PSI, about what a rattle can delivers.

Today I sanded the shellac, and it's ready for the final finish (I hope).

(http://i.imgur.com/DlQs2ETl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mCOaYi3l.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/kPLygb6l.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 8 Nov 2014, 08:34 pm
Four coats of Rustoleum Gloss Black rattle can:

(http://i.imgur.com/MTjPC23l.jpg)

Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 16 Nov 2014, 07:54 pm
Disaster struck!!! :cuss:

 After getting a nice gloss black finish, ready for wet sanding/polishing, I made a major mistake.... I decided to add a couple of coats of clear gloss enamel. Following directions, I applied the Rustoleum Clear Enamel over the Rustoleum Gloss Black Enamel.

 Well - It didn't work! The clear was not compatible over the gloss black for some unknown reason :scratch: it started to lift the black paint that had dried over 48 hours, and had been lightly sanded before applying the clear.

 I let the mess set for 24 hours, and proceeded to try sanding it off...didn't work, just gummed up the sanding disc :sad: I came close to going at the box with a sledge hammer :cry: But - instead I tried some paint remover, and it does work with multiple applications without affecting the epoxy at all, just the other coatings are softened. It's a long slow process, and pretty discouraging, considering I could have skipped the clear and just finished the gloss black as I did very successfully with my Encores :duh:

 I am going to give this project a rest for awhile, till I feel like applying multiple coats of paint remover gel, over several days. :(
 
 
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 16 Nov 2014, 08:33 pm
Yikes!!!!

Never a good feeling when something like this happens.  Always reminds me of being in the military and something gets referred to as a "learning experience"  :shake:

As tempting as the sledgehammer seems at the time, in hindsight it never looks that good.

On the upside, it is salvageable and you don't have to start all over (says the guy who just finished cutting out a grill frame for the third time  :? A :beer: sounds like a good idea about now ...

Mike

Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 17 Nov 2014, 04:34 am
Man,  sorry to hear about that Larry.  Like Mike said,  never a good feeloing  but   going at it with a sledge , while satisfying at the moment,  will feel even worse  after that brief bit of satisfaction is over and the realization of what you've done sets in
Not a paint guy by any means but seems wierd that  clear enamal would react with black enamal, especially   when its made by the same company, frustrating to say the least

At least you don't have to do all that epoxying again

Do what Mike says  :beer:

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: rockdrummer on 17 Nov 2014, 01:13 pm
Good for you for not going the sledgehammer route.  I feel your pain, and sympathize completely.  Threw an incorrectly cut baffle across the lawn when I realized the tweeter hole was too far over.  Thanks for posting your experience though. 

Looking good otherwise.....

Ben
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 17 Nov 2014, 08:58 pm
 :sad:

(http://i.imgur.com/wSfXPxSl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/tLSqdPMl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 17 Nov 2014, 11:11 pm
80 grit paper on an RO sander?

Though that may take off more than you want

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 17 Nov 2014, 11:44 pm
80 grit paper on an RO sander?

Though that may take off more than you want

Mike

Mike - Thanks for the suggestion, but I tried sanding with a ROS, it just gummed up the disc. The nasty looking photo is the paint remover doing it's thing. It works pretty good when doing 2-3 applications.  It's just a big mess for sure. I locked the sledge hammer in my yard shed :lol:
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: gregfisk on 17 Nov 2014, 11:47 pm
Lacro,

Man, am I sorry to see that :cry: I just don't understand what happened unless it was too cold and or the previous layer didn't dry :dunno:
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Peter J on 18 Nov 2014, 03:00 am
Bummer that happened Lacro. I have smashed things to bits, although I was young, impatient and pissed off. I don't remember it as being particularly satisfying, so good on ya for not going that route.

FWIW, I had a similar thing happen with Rustoleum some years ago, only it was recoating with the same paint. As I recall instructions said to recoat within 1 hour or after 24. I waited close to 24...it wrinkled all up with second coat. Figuring I rushed it, I removed paint and started over this time waiting double what they recommended... same result!  Argghh! Started over again, this time just decided to do one coat. Success! But then, I'd already proven that part worked :scratch:

The lamp that I painted is sitting right next to me now...with one coat of paint. And you know what? It looks fine, but I haven't forgotten...
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mresseguie on 18 Nov 2014, 04:24 am
As you have posted pictures of your progress, I have marveled at your skill and quietly wished I could match your results. The first thing I saw just now was the final picture....I nearly cried when I saw it.  :cry:

It takes great humility to post this disaster. I believe you will overcome this setback and produce amazing speakers. In Taiwan folks shout encouragement by yelling "Jia you! Jia you!" Literally, it means "add fuel" or "add gas". Of course, I don't want you to burn the cabinet, but I do wish to encourage you. You, and many others on this site, have given me courage to try my hand at DIY speakers.  :thumb:

Thank you!

Michael
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Alan on 18 Nov 2014, 05:59 am
"80 grit paper on an RO sander? "

Hey. I keep 36 grit around for those tough jobs.

Not to worry, lacro, you've done a great job so far... a minor setback. Have you tried scraping it? Maybe the paint remover (what kind?) loosened it enough to scrape it off. Sometimes a heat gun with a scraper, careful with that heat! Some of those chemical paint strippers do an amazing job. You'll figure it out. If you get discouraged take a break for a couple days. Good luck with it!
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Hank on 18 Nov 2014, 02:01 pm
I feel your pain, man.  In my 30 years of speaker building, I've made many maddening mistakes.  You are doing fine.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: StevenZ on 18 Nov 2014, 04:14 pm
Sorry for the setback Lacro.  Your work looks great and I'm sure the end product will turn out really nice.  Being a cabinet builder I can totally relate.  I've mucked up my fair share of cabinets and just chalk it up as experience gained.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 18 Nov 2014, 04:14 pm
I feel your pain, man.  In my 30 years of speaker building, I've made many maddening mistakes.  You are doing fine.

Like removing the clamps and realizing you just glued the front baffle on inside out (the tweeter recess is on the inside and the woofer roundover is on the outside)  :oops:

If you haven't goofed something royally yet don't worry your time is coming. The only way to never make a misteak is to never do anything. OK, that's all the philosophy I have. Now back to goofing up  :thumb:

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 18 Nov 2014, 07:00 pm
Wow!  Thanks everybody for the encouragement :thumb: I didn't think anybody was following my build. It's just a center channel, not very exciting for sure.

The paint remover worked great! I was able to remove ALL the paint, and sanding sealer down to the epoxy all in one afternoon session :thumb:  You would never know it had ever been painted. I went at sanding everything smooth today. I have a few scratches from my scraping off the old paint that won't sand out, so I filled them with auto body shop spot putty. They are just tiny scratches, and the spot putty should take care of them. 

(http://i.imgur.com/WEczVK8l.jpg)


Like removing the clamps and realizing you just glued the front baffle on inside out (the tweeter recess is on the inside and the woofer roundover is on the outside)  :oops:
Mike

Mike that makes my laugh :lol: I did something similar when building my Encores I glued the back on with the binding post cup recess on the inside  :duh: I was able to fix it by using the plug from a hole saw cut, to fill the hole, so I could have a center to swing my router....worked great.
http://i.imgur.com/iWxBzl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/iWxBzl.jpg)
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Danny Richie on 18 Nov 2014, 07:41 pm
Quote
Wow!  Thanks everybody for the encouragement :thumb: I didn't think anybody was following my build.

Yeah, you'd be surprised.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mresseguie on 18 Nov 2014, 07:57 pm
Yeah, you'd be surprised.

Lacro,

Do the math--60 posts in this thread yet there have been 3,713 views. It's more impressive this way: Three thousand seventeen views!!!

Me thinks there are a few lurkers.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Nov 2014, 10:38 pm
Necely done Larry  :thumb:
Glad it has  gone easier than expected. 

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 19 Nov 2014, 10:39 pm
Sanded off the spot putty which left only the scratches, and tiny low spots filled. Decided to use high build primer this time. I will wait a couple days before wet sanding in prep for the gloss black. It's hard to fathom this was a disaster a couple days ago!   :oops:

(http://i.imgur.com/7inJY8Vl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ODaeuWml.jpg)

Larry....
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 21 Nov 2014, 09:01 pm
Gloss black is back!  :)

(http://i.imgur.com/PU49lhYl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/NOgojKfl.jpg)

Larry...
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 21 Nov 2014, 09:06 pm
There you go, that looks great. Aren't you glad you left the sledge alone? :thumb:

Mike
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 21 Nov 2014, 09:35 pm
Thanks Mike... But - there is a ways to go yet! Oh yeah! the sledge hammer is under lock and key :wink:
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mlundy57 on 21 Nov 2014, 09:45 pm
I realize it doesn't match the finish on you LS Encores but it is already better than I could do.
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Nov 2014, 01:28 am
Amazing recovery Larry  :thumb: 
Man, you did that  quick too

-jay
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: lacro on 25 Nov 2017, 03:56 pm
This project has been on the back burner for 3 years!  :o I finally got a good paint finish, and after color sanding/buffing, I got the nice piano black finish I wanted to match my X-LS Encores. I stored the finished box away in a closet, and lost interest. I spent most of my spare time building and playing around with chip amps, and didn't have much interest in home theater as I was mostly listening to 2 channel music.

When this post came up: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153347.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153347.0) I decided it might be time to finish the speaker, and help out someone trying to unload some unused items. I got the drivers and rear terminal cup installed without issue. I was concerned about damaging the gloss finish while drilling 20 screw holes The only issue I had was the need to deepen the counterbore recess for the tweeter which had been built up with multiple coats of finish. I used a carbide scraper to carefully remove several layers of finish so the tweeter would be flush with the front baffle. This was another delicate operation using a sharp tool close to a gloss finish which could have been a disaster with one slip of hand.  :nono:

Anyway, all is well, and I thought it best to finalize the build thread even though it took 3 years to finish! :roll: The speaker matches my X-LS Encores both visually, and sonically :thumb:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.msg1114394#msg1114394 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.msg1114394#msg1114394)

(https://i.imgur.com/UCNRBs4.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/kJIeWxW.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/arDPNs4.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/md6uxrB.jpg?1)

Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: mresseguie on 25 Nov 2017, 04:48 pm
That finish is beautiful.  :bowdown:

Over 10,000 views now!
Title: Re: My X-CS Encore Build
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Nov 2017, 06:16 pm
Fantastic as usual Larry  :thumb:
Glad you found the time to got  it all done

jay