[jackman]

Jack,
As you've already mentioned, you just need to go ride each of them and see what you think.

A few of my thoughts;

Look used.  A lot of great deals out there.  I basically had to give away a recent frame of mine at about a 60% discount just to get it sold.  Kind of mirrors the audio world right now.    

Maybe look at buying a frame separate and piecing together.  There is a Seven Elium on the bay right now that is probably your size and I bet it goes for $900.  Certainly a lot of money, but also a steal at that price for one sweet riding frame.  May also want to check out some of the non house brands.  Kuota, Ridley, BMC, etc, all make very nice bikes.

While D/A, Red, and Record are nice, look at the levels right below.  I notice virtually no difference between the highest end stuff to Rival/Force, Ultegra, and Chorus/Centaur.  95% the performance at 60% the cost.

Wish you were a bit taller, pretty sure I'd have something for ya. 

Having more than one like is a nice luxury.  And you may be a good candidate for two bikes.  The Pilot for longer distances, and a racey one that gets your blood boiling.

The CAD9 is a great bike.  About as good of an aluminum frame as you can get.

AAAAAAAHHHHH!!!  I just wrote a long response to your post and it timed out and I lost everything! 

I said that your suggestions are excellent.  I'm very familiar with the bikes on your list and the CAAD9 and I really appreciate your recommendations.  You have some of the best looking bikes I have ever seen and I will seek your advice prior to making a decision. 

I did a fast 25 mile training ride tonight and the Pilot (although it's a total geezer bike) rode beautifully.  It's not sexy looking like a Kish or BMC but my bike fits me perfectly and rides so smoothly.  A CAAD9 would be a nice stable mate because it's stiff and fast.  Tried to get a matte black one but could not find any locally in my size.  Will continue to check eBay (unless I find a Serotta in my size!).

My only regret is that I'm not a bit taller, because I would totally buy any of your old bikes!  You really have great taste in bicycles.  If I had those bikes, it would be hard to pick a favorite at least based on looks.  They are all stunning. 

Hey, thanks for letting me borrow your speakers.  I'm in no hurry to send them back but wanted to let you know they are safe and sound, and I appreciate you letting me enjoy them temporarily.  They are very nice. 

Cheers!

Jack

[LadyDog]

Oh Sh*t.  Kind of forgot about the speakers.  Work has been crazy for me.  Which in today's economy, things could be worse.  It has killed my riding time though.  I'll reach out to you in a bit.  Thanks for the storage facility.  Know they are in good hands.

On to bikes, Fit is King! 

What size are you again Jack.  54/55/56?  I'll keep a look out.

[jackman]

Oh Sh*t.  Kind of forgot about the speakers.  Work has been crazy for me.  Which in today's economy, things could be worse.  It has killed my riding time though.  I'll reach out to you in a bit.  Thanks for the storage facility.  Know they are in good hands.

On to bikes, Fit is King! 

What size are you again Jack.  54/55/56?  I'll keep a look out.

Hey, no worries on the speakers.  I'll hold on to them as long as you wish.  Just didn't want you to forget and I would never do anything to betray the trust anyone puts in me.  They are in a safe place and ready whenever you are ready.  No rush!

I'm a 55" or a 56".  My current bike is a 56" and it fits me perfectly.  I ride with a group of guys who all have really cool bikes, Ridley Noah, Serotta custom CF, Serotta custom Ti, Lynskey Helix custom Ti, S-Works Roubaix, Madone 6.9, Willier Centro (sp?), etc.  My little Trek Pilot 5.0 is not sexy but is comfortable for me and fits me perfectly.  I'd like to get something cooler and faster but I doubt I would be any faster.  Maybe the Caad 9 because it's so stiff and lightweight. 

I weighed my Pilot with the new CF crankset and it is just over 18.5 lbs with pedals and bottle carriers.  The wheels are 1950 g's, the 105 shifters, cassette, and Ultegra derailiers are heavy (I have Sram Red shifters but need to buy deraileurs), and the Bontrager bars and stem are heavy.  I could get two pounds off this bike with lighter tires and the addition of the SRAM red drivetrain.  Also have a 500 g fork on the bike at the moment.  I already swapped out the crankset and bb for SRAM GPX with carbon fiber crank arms.  Switching to Red or Force and swapping out the fork and wheels would put me around 16 lbs, respectable for a race bike. 

I am lookig at another wheelset and have a good deal locally on the Red components that I might pull the trigger on today.  Lots of forks for sale on ebay (Alpha Q, Easton, etc.) with carbon steerers but I ride some rough roads on mine and feel secure with an alu steerer.  Plus I'm still around 205 and don't want to take unnecessary chances.
 
 

[JoshK]

I am actually looking to get a road bike too.  It just makes more sense than changing wheels or tires if I plan to start riding often.   I am not about racing though, this is for fitness during the week. 

On the weekends I'll be hitting the trails with the GF X-cal.  I am going to a group ride and BBQ at 6 Mile tomorrow with the MTBNJ crowd.

For a street bike, I am leaning towards more of a comfort oriented bike rather than a racer, i.e. more upright position.  I've done some research and came up with the following list.   Any thoughts?

Real Roadies but more upright fit::
Giant Defy 1
Trek Pilot 2.1
Spec. Secteur Elite
Cannondale Synapse 5
Jamis Ventura Race

More commuter oriented which may fit my more aggressive riding style::
Fisher Mendota

I think I am leaning towards the first group, as the Mendota is a too similar to my MTB.

Experience or opinions with any of these would be helpful.

[bunnyma357]

With the choices you have, I'd be a little concerned about durability and reliability, depending on what you mean by "aggressive riding style"

I have an older lower-spec Jamis Ventura and it is a very nice bike for the money. I did find that I had a tendency to break rear spokes on the lightweight wheels with lots of dish, I was around 200 lbs. and would be commuting so I might hit a pothole or curb every so often. I also found that in more urban riding I didn't like having to go into the drops to brake effectively.

I would think you might be better served by something like a touring bike, with stouter wheels. Maybe something along the lines of a Surly Long Haul Trucker.

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/

I've discovered that for almost all my regular road biking I prefer a fixed gear bike. Great exercise, fun to ride, minimal mechanical issues to deal with, no dish in the rear wheels makes them super strong. Fastest ride I have by far, unless I'm heading into the mountains. You might take a look at something like a Redline Urbis or 925, I think the 925 is a single speed (not fixed), but you could add a fixed gear cog to replace or supplement the freewheel.

http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes/commute/2010-urbis
http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes/commute/2010--925

You might also look into some cyclocross bikes which might fare better with aggressive riding.


Jim C

[LadyDog]

Josh,
Some of it may depend on your size, the roads you will be riding, etc.  Take it you will be using your current ATB for the trail riding.

So of those mentioned, I personally would lean towards the Cannondale.  Nicest frame.  That said, the one that fits you the best, is the way to go.  Head tube length, top tube length, etc.

Jack can talk to you about the Pilot, as I believe that is the exact same model he is riding now.  If you guys are the same size, maybe a deal can be worked out.  You both want new rides.

[JoshK]

OK, some clarifications.

For roading, I am not likely to be that aggressive.  But the roads around here can sometimes be sketchy, that is why I said more aggressive. 

I am 170lbs or thereabouts, 5'8". 

Maybe I am better off with a set of road wheels for my MTB.  The LBS guy said it would cost me in the mid 400's for such a setup. 

[jackman]

Josh,
Some of it may depend on your size, the roads you will be riding, etc.  Take it you will be using your current ATB for the trail riding.

So of those mentioned, I personally would lean towards the Cannondale.  Nicest frame.  That said, the one that fits you the best, is the way to go.  Head tube length, top tube length, etc.

Jack can talk to you about the Pilot, as I believe that is the exact same model he is riding now.  If you guys are the same size, maybe a deal can be worked out.  You both want new rides.

Hi Josh,

Ladydog knows bikes!  He is an experienced rider and has owned several bikes that I can only dream of.  I have 100% confidence in his recommendations. 

I have the Pilot but it's not the current version.  Mine is an OLCV 120 carbon fiber, made in USA version from '08 that I bought as a new bike last year (NOS).  The Pilot, Syapse, Roubaix, Defy, etc., are all relaxed geometry bikes.  They typically have a shorter top tube, longer head tube and longer wheelbase for a more comfortable and stable ride.  Riding position is more upright than a racing bike and the longer wheelbase gives you a less twitchy ride.  They usually can accept fenders (the Pilot can) and up to 28mm tires.  This is good if you plan to commute with the bike or ride on rougher roads.  I typically ride 23 mm, Continental GP4000's (my favorite tires) and have never had a problem. 

Depending on your budget, if you are looking to buy new, I think the Cannondale or the Specialized Roubaix would be great choices.  Make sure you ride before you buy and get sized properly.  This is more important than getting a great deal on a particular brand. 

Since you already have a MTB-style bike, I'd avoid commuter type bikes.  The relaxed geometry bikes you referenced will be faster and more comfortable over long distances.  I've only been seriously road cycling since August so please factor this into the equasion.  My group rides on some bumpy roads and frequently over gravel.  Skinny tires like the ones I use are not ideal but it's generally not a problem.  I'm just under 5'10" and, as of today, weigh around 207 lbs.  Not a lightweight but I've never bent a rim and my wheels are true after thousands of miles of riding. Unless you plan to ride off-road, you could ride a Pilot, Syanapse or Roubaix on rough roads without problems.  You might have to run 25mm, lower psi, flat-resistant tires. 

I can ride my bike for 100 miles without any discomfort (other than typical muscle soreness).  It's also set up to allow for a more aero riding position compared to when I first bough the bike.  The carbon fiber is stiff and filters out some road buzz so it's more foregiving on long rides.  A race bike will be stiffer and allow for better power transfer but that stiffness could lead to discomfort on long rides.  I know some very fast riders who ride comfortable geometry bikes, including a good friend who rides a Specialized Roubaix.  You could easily race (although probably not crit) on the Roubaix or the Synapse if you wanted to at a later date. 

Lastly, I wouldn't spend money on road wheels for your current bike.  It might be better to put the money towards a used bike you can ride on the road or get a set of road tires for your bike.  IMO, flat bar bikes don't offer enough hand positions and aero positions for long rides. 

Good luck!

J

PS - This is a cool looking bike that I'm thinking about getting: 

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT_REVIEW&ARTICLE_ID=3059&RETURN=BMC%20Road%20Racer%20SL%2001%2FSRAM%20Rival%20Complete%20Bike%20page&RETURNLINK=%2Fza%2FCCY%3FPAGE%3DPRODUCT%26PRODUCT.ID%3D6950

[Levi]

Hey Josh, you current 29er bike will be just fine with your intended purpose. Since you are only riding short distances and needs the manuverability.

I would build your core muscles first and when you think you are ready to ride over 70+ miles in a week then a more efficient road bike package is needed.

Cad 9 is one of the best bikes you can buy for less than $1500.

Keep riding!

[ooheadsoo]

I'm a total noob but am riding between 45 to 85 road miles a week on my rockhopper 29'er SL with 37c road tires without too many complaints.  Of course, I'm not going very fast, but I certainly don't think the bike is the most significant bottleneck.  I picked up a pair of shoes and egg beater pedals, which may have improved my commute time by as much as 10%, fwiw.

[Levi]

It becomes significant when you are riding in a group with other roadies/mtbers and gets' dropped frequently.  It is lonely riding alone sometimes. 

I'm a total noob but am riding between 45 to 85 road miles a week on my rockhopper 29'er SL with 37c road tires without too many complaints.  Of course, I'm not going very fast, but I certainly don't think the bike is the most significant bottleneck.  I picked up a pair of shoes and egg beater pedals, which may have improved my commute time by as much as 10%, fwiw.

[ooheadsoo]

Well, that's all in who you're riding with and their riding style.  My work riding buddy is a semi pro level racer but he just rides with me for fun and to put in some spinning endurance miles before he practices time trials riding 35 miles back to his home.  My other friends are about my speed, so it's no big deal.  You just got your bike, enjoy it for a while! 

Gotta remember, just like audio, no one with the bug will tell you to buy an integrated solution like an HT receiver ... or some kind of all in one bike that will do everything well but nothing great.  On the other hand, if you've got the money to spare, have fun 

[jackman]

Hey Guys,

I was just giving suggestions.  Josh is a smart guy and he knows how to spend his money wisely.  Before buying anything, I'd try to figure out what kind of riding you will be doing.  If he's thinking about riding on road, I would suggest a bike that is made for on road riding.  If he only plans to ride on the road infrequently, a nice set of road type tires will make the ride more enjoyable and faster, possibly. 

I have a lot of time on my road bike and like the traditional road handlebar shape.  It allows you to get several hand positions on long rides and is more comfy for me.  My mtb is cool but I woudln't want to ride it long distances, even with road tires. 

It's like audio gear, as the previous poster said.  For some people, Bose might not be the wrong choice.  They don't need perfect sound and value portability and other conveniences certain brands offer. Whatever makes them happy!

Cheers,

J

[ooheadsoo]

If I had the money, I'd be hitting the shops finding the right road bike for me, too.  I'm just saying that he JUST got his x-caliber, which is a pretty cool bike, and can roll fairly well with a set of slicks - at least well enough to get started.  You must admit that it will get the job done, just like a powerful truck vs. a powerful roadster.  Ok, I know Josh is a smart guy and has a good job as befits his education etc., and nothing I am saying will stop him from buying the bike he wants.  I'm just gently nudging the law of diminishing returns. 

Now don't get me wrong, I clicked and ogled every one of those links you guys posted   If he gets any one of those road bikes, I'd be nothing but 

[PhilNYC]

I am actually looking to get a road bike too.  It just makes more sense than changing wheels or tires if I plan to start riding often.   I am not about racing though, this is for fitness during the week. 

On the weekends I'll be hitting the trails with the GF X-cal.  I am going to a group ride and BBQ at 6 Mile tomorrow with the MTBNJ crowd.

For a street bike, I am leaning towards more of a comfort oriented bike rather than a racer, i.e. more upright position.  I've done some research and came up with the following list.   Any thoughts?

Real Roadies but more upright fit::
Giant Defy 1
Trek Pilot 2.1
Spec. Secteur Elite
Cannondale Synapse 5
Jamis Ventura Race

More commuter oriented which may fit my more aggressive riding style::
Fisher Mendota

I think I am leaning towards the first group, as the Mendota is a too similar to my MTB.

Experience or opinions with any of these would be helpful.

Hey Josh,

You've definitely identified all good bikes in the same "class" (intended use, budget, etc).  Imho, it will boil down to which one you are the most comfortable on (fit-wise).  If you're planning on buying new, it'll also have some dependency on your comfort-level with the store you're buying from...many stores offer free tune-ups et al on bikes that they sell new to you, and this can add up over years of use. 

If you don't have stores near you that sell all of these brands, I have decent relationships with stores in my area (not that far from you) that have pretty much all of them...so let me know if you want to come up and do some shopping around. 

Of the ones you listed, I think Jamis tends to spec their bikes with slightly better components than the others in the same price range (and Trek tends to lag just a little bit).  The biggest decision you will probably need to make is deciding between Shimano Tiagra and Shimano 105.  Performance-wise, they are almost identical...but Tiagra is a 9-speed system, and 105 is a 10-speed system.  It doesn't make a ton of difference for your stated intended riding, but if you ever do decide to get more "hardcore" into road riding, 105 is upgradable to Shimano's higher-quality components (Ultegra, Dura-Ace are both 10-speed), whereas Tiagra (as a 9-speed system) is not.

[PhilNYC]

Btw - got back from a week in the Bay Area...riding there is great!  About 42 miles at a moderate pace...the most difficult part of the ride was that it starts with a 5 mile climb...not a huge elevation (only about 500ft), but no warm-up!

Canada Road, off of Skyline Blvd just south of Hillsborough.  On Sundays, they close this road to cars and open it up to bicyclists:


My route:
Link: http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/ca/san-mateo/773127914306367101

My biggest observations about the difference riding in the Bay Area vs. NY/NJ area are that (1) there aren't many pure flats in the Bay Area...everything has some kind of grade to it (up and down), and (2) drivers are MUCH friendlier to cyclists in the Bay Area!

[JoshK]

Thanks guys for the advice.  I am in no rush to plunk down coin, but I do want to ride during the week and off-road really isn't possible except the weekends.  The knobbies sure feel slow, but for excercise it probably doesn't matter for now.

I don't really like the idea of changing tires back and forth all the time and an extra set of wheels cost enough that just buying a real road bike seems like a better option especially if that is what it going to happen eventually anyway.

I road the X-cal twice on the road for brief rides.  Its a great bike, but the tires feel too soft for the road.  I don't know what is safe as far as pressure for knobbies.  I just went on my first off-road ride today at Hartshorne.  Wow did I ever get my ass kicked!  Second time around the grand tour my legs turned to jelly.

Met up with the MTBNJ guys and went to the BBQ.  Fun group and good time.

[ooheadsoo]

Please don't take this as discouragement to buy a road bike.

But changing tires is pretty fast, once you have enough experience, and swapping the tires out for slicks makes a big difference.  My roadie co-worker/friend could probably change a tube in the time it takes you to fill up a few water bottles.  He tells me his riding club has competitions to see who can change their tires faster.  Me, it'll take a while, but the more I do it, the more I see that it's merely inexperience that is making me take so long.

What I'm trying to say is that a cheap pair of slicks, e.g. clearance from nashbar.com, is worth the $20/pr it will set you back until you decide which road bike you want.  Don't forget to get some tire levers, if you don't already have some.

Yesterday, my buddy and I were riding, him on knobbies and me on my clearance slicks (wtb slickasaurus) and sweat was pouring down his face while I was barely breathing hard.  The knobbies also sound like a mini lawn mower next to the slicks.

Once you've swapped tires enough:
1) You will be set for any flat tire emergencies you may have. 
2) You may feel more motivated to hurry up and go buy a road bike

Phil, thanks for posting the ride.  I think one of my friends lives in San Mateo and he's been bugging me to visit.  It'll be good to ride there.

[PhilNYC]

Hey Josh...another option might be to look at some fixed-gear or single-speed bikes.  If the plan is basically to ride the bike on the roads around where you live (and not to do long road rides et al), and you don't have many hills around you, a fixed gear or single-speed bike will be much less expensive, and will help you towards your fitness goals much better.  Something like a Jamis Sputnik or Specialized Langster could fill the bill....

[bunnyma357]

Hey Josh...another option might be to look at some fixed-gear or single-speed bikes.  If the plan is basically to ride the bike on the roads around where you live (and not to do long road rides et al), and you don't have many hills around you, a fixed gear or single-speed bike will be much less expensive, and will help you towards your fitness goals much better.  Something like a Jamis Sputnik or Specialized Langster could fill the bill....

+1

A fixed gear will also help improve your riding technique, you have to develop a smooth spin on the downhills and learn when to sprint to maximize momentum on an uphill. Both of which will serve you well for any type of riding. Plus they are just plain fun to ride - the silence of no clicking pawls, along with the direct connection of the pedaling to the resulting motion make for a really great ride.

I'm an older, fatter rider and I have no problems with getting up & down the rolling hills in Virginia and Colorado. It's definitely worth at least trying one out - just give yourself time to adjust to no coasting, especially at stops/intersections. When I got back into biking I went through a similar process of figuring out what bike would serve me best, and I bought a Jamis Ventura thinking a road bike would be great for me, but it now sits pretty much unused in favor of my 25 year old Bridgestone fixed gear conversion.

Of course all the bikes you listed are nice, and it would hard to make a bad choice - it really depends on the type of riding you'll be doing. I've also tried the changing tires/wheelset routine and it does get very tiresome - I think you're better off with a separate bike, but take your time figuring out what you really enjoy.

Jim C