BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise

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GSDaudio

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BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« on: 21 Jan 2021, 08:07 pm »
Is it normal for the BP26DA to make a "relay" clicking type noise when the songs change over on the BDP-3?   It doesn't happen every time but at least once every three songs as an average.  I have the BDP-3 running a playlist of about 2500 songs on shuffle.   All Flac files (96/24, 44/16) on external usb drive.   The BDP-3 is in a different stack than the BP26DA/MPS2.   

I can hear the clicking sound in the next room as it happens immediately before a song plays.   Hopefully no damage is happening in the BP26DA.

Cheers,
Richard

GSDaudio

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jan 2021, 09:00 pm »
Found a related thread regarding BP26DA making a relay clicking sound when a CD was inserted in a CD transport.   James had said it was the DAC locking onto the signal. 

I'm guessing the DAC is locking on a signal when the file resolution switches between 96/24 and 44/16...but not every time.   May have to upgrade to an external DAC because the clicking is driving me crazy. 

Cheers,
Richard

GSDaudio

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jan 2021, 09:39 pm »
Before I upgrade I'm going to get some software and upsample my 44/16 Flac files to 96/24...that way all files will be the same format and there will be no more clicking! 

Best software for the task???

Cheers,
Richard

R. Daneel

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #3 on: 25 Jan 2021, 03:25 pm »
All DACs that support both 44.1 and 48 Khz sampling rates and their multiplies have two clocks- one for each base frequency. Every time the DAC swithces between these two clocks, you will hear a relay-like clicking sound coming from within.

Also, if there is a longer pause between tracks, the DAC might unlock from the signal and then lock onto it a second later at which point you will also hear this click.

Not all DACs behave this way but generally, in both cases, this is perfectly normal.

That being said, this 'click' sound isn't produced by the actual clock generator but by the input receiver chip. I would need to know the exact chip used in your DAC to know for certain, but this chip is resposnible for input selection as well as translating data to the DAC chip and, if there is one, the sampling-rate converter chip.

BDA-1, 2 and 3 input recivers already incorporate an SRC so there is no need for a separate chip. I believe they use an SRC4392 by TI. Your built-in DAC might be using a CS8416 by Cirrus Logic which is also good but perhaps a little less imuune to input jitter. For me, that wouldn't be enough of a reason to spend money on a new DAC.

Cheers,
Antun

GSDaudio

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #4 on: 25 Jan 2021, 03:54 pm »
Over the past few days I have experimented with Sample Rate Conversion and how it affects my audio experience with my BP26DA.   The DAC "clicks" every time the song format changes from 44/16 to 96/24 in my "shuffled" playlists.  I listen to music this way over 90% of the time since it simulates my own personal radio station.

Research on the web led me to others who experienced the same problem.   It seems high end DACs tend to have this issue (McIntosh and Accuphase).   I don't have the knowledge to comment any further on why it happens.  I just was hoping to find a solution.   Antun,  apparently we were typing a reply for this thread at the same time!  Thank you for the technical explanation.  It also answers my question about the BDA-3 and whether or not I could expect "clicking" if I upgraded.   Thanks again.

I purchased the dbpoweramp software package which has a decent sample rate converter.  I used the batch conversion module to convert approximately 4,000  44/16 Flac files into 96/24 Flac files.   It took 4 hours to encode on my MacBookPro.

I could not hear any difference between the original 44/16 files and the newly encoded 96/24 files.  Absolutely none.   

Most importantly the DAC clicking is no longer an issue!

I hope this helps anyone who has the same issues.

Cheers,
Richard

R. Daneel

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #5 on: 25 Jan 2021, 06:24 pm »
Hi Richard!

96 kHz sample-rate is a muliple of 48 kHz by a factor of 2. (48 x 2 = 96)


When you play a 16/44.1 track and then switch to a 24/96 track, the DAC switches from the 44.1 clock to a 48 clock. The whole system reconfigures so to speak, to allow for the use of a different clock. This includes the input receiver chip which is what produces the 'click'. It's not an issue I assure you, it's working as it should.

When you transcoded the files to 96 kHz, didn't you increase the file size? I don't see any possible good come from that, I'm sorry to say, and I'm not surprised you didn't hear a difference. These are tricky things to spot and you'd have to be pretty well trained and use recordings you're intimately familiar with.

Cheers,
Antun

nature boy

Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #6 on: 25 Jan 2021, 06:51 pm »
Believe you sent this message to me in error.

NB

GSDaudio

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #7 on: 25 Jan 2021, 08:43 pm »

When you transcoded the files to 96 kHz, didn't you increase the file size? I don't see any possible good come from that, I'm sorry to say, and I'm not surprised you didn't hear a difference. These are tricky things to spot and you'd have to be pretty well trained and use recordings you're intimately familiar with.

Cheers,
Antun

Yes the file size went up significantly.   I only converted rock/pop genres and kept classical and folk as original to avoid going to the next size harddrive.

I now have new problem.....I was enjoying my success listening to my tunes without clicking....then no music....then the "clicking" went nuts.   Like a hard drive scrolling non-stop but much louder.  Had to shut down the BP26 to stop it.   The DAC is no longer working at all.   Analog is fine but if I send a signal to the DAC it starts clicking like crazy again.   I suspect that the reason the original clicking bothered me so much was because the DAC was on its way out and the fault made the switching louder.   I sent an email to Mike P for service.    Might have to do a cost/benefit on repair vs new BDA-3 vs just get a new BR-20.   

Cheers,
Richard




R. Daneel

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #8 on: 26 Jan 2021, 11:56 am »
Yes the file size went up significantly.   I only converted rock/pop genres and kept classical and folk as original to avoid going to the next size harddrive.

I now have new problem.....I was enjoying my success listening to my tunes without clicking....then no music....then the "clicking" went nuts.   Like a hard drive scrolling non-stop but much louder.  Had to shut down the BP26 to stop it.   The DAC is no longer working at all.   Analog is fine but if I send a signal to the DAC it starts clicking like crazy again.   I suspect that the reason the original clicking bothered me so much was because the DAC was on its way out and the fault made the switching louder.   I sent an email to Mike P for service.    Might have to do a cost/benefit on repair vs new BDA-3 vs just get a new BR-20.   

Cheers,
Richard

I'm sorry to hear that mate!

Just out of curiosity, did you change digital cables recently, made them yourself or hd someone else do it? Anything of a sort? It's possible the input stage was somehow damaged. Is there anything else connected to the DAC apart from the BDP-3, like DVB-T/S receivers, TVs or something else?

There have been reports on Bryston DACs being damaged by such devices. They typically have very cheap PSUs so the voltage output on SPDIF can vary. I hope they can fix it for you.

Cheers,
Antun

GSDaudio

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Re: BP26DA and BDP-3 Clicking Noise
« Reply #9 on: 26 Jan 2021, 12:43 pm »

Just out of curiosity, did you change digital cables recently, made them yourself or hd someone else do it? Anything of a sort? It's possible the input stage was somehow damaged. Is there anything else connected to the DAC apart from the BDP-3, like DVB-T/S receivers, TVs or something else?

That would not be an issue since I use one SPDIF input only which is connected to the BDP-3 (previously BDP-1).   The cable is a canare cable that my dealer provided when I purchased the BDP-1 eight years ago.    I hooked up a Sony bluray player years ago as a test and the sound was highly accurate amplified garbage.   After one movie I removed it from the system. 

Cheers,
Richard