[_andy_]

I have always loved Bryston products and always recommend to others. The main reason I went with my SP1.7 was being led to believe I was "future proof". Obviously technology marches on & changes are needed for the better. I am very happy I didn't upgrade to SP2 as it  would have been a waste. Was foolishly holding out for the new stuff. If there is no upgrade path to SP3 than I'll sell my SP1.7 & go with the new B&K or Integra 9.8. with Benchmark or something. My expectations wont be as high therefore happier in the long run.

If there is an upgrade path I will remain a loyal customer & advocate. For those of you who will just get the new one, I wish I had your disposable income.

..nothing is 'future proof' really & at some point technology advances enough where hardware 'retro-active engineering' isn't possible nor economically viable....you simply have to go to a new chassis. A monetary upgrade path ala Lexicon i suppose may or may not be a possibility if SP-2/1.7 turns out to be non-upgradable.

I wouldn't give a lot of credit to companies like 'Integra' either....they have  made big 'promises' of their gear being 'future proof' even going as far as putting 'Nostradamus'  in the adverts for some of their platforms. I purchased an Integra Research pre/pro the RDC-7.1...this is the top tier audio product of the Onkyo/Integra group...it even has a cardslot/motherboard design...all inputs etc are on different user installable card slot boards...very nice piece of gear, beautiful sound & a price to match..4.5-5Kusd 2 years ago. The promise was with the purpose built card slot engineered design any changes could be built into a card and added later....great concept....that's about it. No further devel than HDMI 1.1....ie no hirez audio over HDMI ever, due to a fundamental bandwitdh problem
with the motherboard at the hdmi daughter board slot location...nice try Integra, Nostradamus is rolling over in his grave. 

Actually i would choose  that Onkyo Pro 885 pre/pro...same as Integra 9.8 functionally and electronically, but a much cleaner design.......but i refuse to give Onkyo/Onkyo-Pro/Integra/Integra-Research another dime...but that's just me.

[DF]

I beg to deffer with the notion that nothing is future proof in this business because there's one brand that has proven to be just that. It is challenging for manufacturers to live up to their claim of future proofing in the ever evolving digital world. Ultimately, in most cases it boils down to nothing more than marketing hypobole and rhetoric. In my nearly two decades of dabling in this business, one brand has stood out in living up to their claim of future proofing. 'Muse Electronics'. I started with their 'model 9' eight years ago and have progressed ever since through to DVDA then the addition of SACD and hopefully soon to their HDMI capable 'Erato 11'. I am currently using the 'Polyhymnia' with 'Bryston' power amplification i.e. 14B & 6B SST. A match made in heaven. Muses upgrade path has always proven effortless at a more than reasonable price. Performance can easily be compared with the best of the best, if a side-by-side comparison is made. 

DF

[MarcLeger]

I fully understand why the SP3 won't be backward compatible. I hope I am wrong and there will be some sort of lifeline to cling on to. Ever since I was a kid looking at the old sound & vision my lifelong goal was to own "Bryston". Obviously there is a huge difference between digital & analog (ST to SST amplifiers) making changes difficult. I have to admit the 20 yr warranty for a Pre/Pro was a huge factor in my decision. Made me feel good about purchase combined with upgrade path if needed. We all know the new DTS & Dolby formats will be better  & I want them. I remember comparing a 720p Runco (13500.00 cdn.) to a new at the time PTA E1000 1080P Panasonic (5000.00cdn.) No contest when you fed 1080p bluray source Panasonic Blu it (Runco) away. You see where I am going here.

The ultimate is Bryston Pre/pro for both music & movies but it looks like the road stops here, when funds are limited. They should have a place in the desert for old relics like SP1.7 , Proceed , etc!

[bmoura]

Hi All,

So far we are thinking:

1. 3 or 4  rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in

Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors

james

Having the option to put the video switcher in the top rack space sounds good.  I'd also suggest an inboard power supply.
Other connectors - could there be two sets of 5.1 unbalanced ins and one set of 5.1 balanced ins as well ?

[nicolasb]

Well, March has come and (almost) gone: any news on the HDMI-upgrade potential of SP1.7 and SP2 processors?

Incidentally, a note to those who feel it is unreasonable to expect the SP1.7 and SP2 to be upgradeable: the reason we were expecting them to be upgradeable is because Bryston repeatedly told us that they would be. Just do a search on this forum and you will find not one but many occasions where James Tanner and others explicitly refer to an HDMI upgrade for the SP2, and without any qualification to suggest that this might not be available to the (functionally identical) upgraded SP1.7. Indeed, if you go all the way back to when it was first suggested that they would use the "Aureus" DSP (long before it was even decided that there was going to be an "SP2") Bryston was happy to say that one of the main reasons for the upgrade was that they needed a chip with enough "horsepower" to be able to decode next-generation "HD" audio formats - something which cannot be properly done without HDMI input.

[James Tanner]

Well, March has come and (almost) gone: any news on the HDMI-upgrade potential of SP1.7 and SP2 processors?

Incidentally, a note to those who feel it is unreasonable to expect the SP1.7 and SP2 to be upgradeable: the reason we were expecting them to be upgradeable is because Bryston repeatedly told us that they would be. Just do a search on this forum and you will find not one but many occasions where James Tanner and others explicitly refer to an HDMI upgrade for the SP2, and without any qualification to suggest that this might not be available to the (functionally identical) upgraded SP1.7. Indeed, if you go all the way back to when it was first suggested that they would use the "Aureus" DSP (long before it was even decided that there was going to be an "SP2") Bryston was happy to say that one of the main reasons for the upgrade was that they needed a chip with enough "horsepower" to be able to decode next-generation "HD" audio formats - something which cannot be properly done without HDMI input.

Hi All,

As I continue to state - I will not know if upgrades are available to the SP2 until we build the SP3 and see what can be filtered down. Sadly we still have not received the HD chips from our supplier to see what can be done .

What we assumed would be possible if past statements was based on what I was aware of at that time.  I am sorry but things do change outside of our control.  We will obviously do our best to offer any and all possible upgrades to our customers.

james

[Phil A]

Well, March has come and (almost) gone: any news on the HDMI-upgrade potential of SP1.7 and SP2 processors?

Incidentally, a note to those who feel it is unreasonable to expect the SP1.7 and SP2 to be upgradeable: the reason we were expecting them to be upgradeable is because Bryston repeatedly told us that they would be. Just do a search on this forum and you will find not one but many occasions where James Tanner and others explicitly refer to an HDMI upgrade for the SP2, and without any qualification to suggest that this might not be available to the (functionally identical) upgraded SP1.7. Indeed, if you go all the way back to when it was first suggested that they would use the "Aureus" DSP (long before it was even decided that there was going to be an "SP2") Bryston was happy to say that one of the main reasons for the upgrade was that they needed a chip with enough "horsepower" to be able to decode next-generation "HD" audio formats - something which cannot be properly done without HDMI input.

Hi All,

As I continue to state - I will not know if upgrades are available to the SP2 until we build the SP3 and see what can be filtered down. Sadly we still have not received the HD chips from our supplier to see what can be done .

What we assumed would be possible if past statements was based on what I was aware of at that time.  I am sorry but things do change outside of our control.  We will obviously do our best to offer any and all possible upgrades to our customers.

james

James, thanks for the update.  A lot of us with SP1.7s are in the same boat.  If the BP26 had HT bypass I might have sold my SP1.7 by now and lived with the fact that a receiver is the way to go for HT as it is obvious that time wise Bryston can't do things as fast as mass market cos. and I care about 2-channel more than I do about multi-channel or HT.  It is actually holding up a couple of more things for me, including a Blu-Ray player and what to do about the bedroom system that sits on the other side of the wall to the main system.  I don't have room for more components in the bedroom and depending upon what happens with the SP1.7 will impact the decision on a new rec'r (e.g. whether I get one with Dolby True HD or not and just live with Dolby Digital).  My current bedroom rec'r is 7 yrs. old.

James, do you think it is possible to give us regular updates?  It is the end of March now - something like the end of June, end of September, end of December.  I think it will avoid some of the constant questions and serve to give us some progress.  Thanks

[James Tanner]

Sure -would be glad to give monthly updates if that helps. Believe me it is very frustrating at our end as well when suppliers do not live up to their delivery dates.

james

[MacAngus]

I am also interested in the HDMI update for my SP2. I'm starting to think about an HD player now that the format war is over.
I recently installed a 3 channel amp in my system and looking at the back of the SP2, I think the prime area for (1) in and (1) out HDMI connectors would be the 2 toslinks space. I would be glad to give up those inputs that I never use to have an updated processor.
Finding space inside for the new HD chip panel is another story, but I am confident your technicians can make a go of it after the SP3 is worked out. If not there will be many, (including myself) disappointed SP2 owners out there.

DM 

[Phil A]

I am also interested in the HDMI update for my SP2. I'm starting to think about an HD player now that the format war is over.
I recently installed a 3 channel amp in my system and looking at the back of the SP2, I think the prime area for (1) in and (1) out HDMI connectors would be the 2 toslinks space. I would be glad to give up those inputs that I never use to have an updated processor.
Finding space inside for the new HD chip panel is another story, but I am confident your technicians can make a go of it after the SP3 is worked out. If not there will be many, (including myself) disappointed SP2 owners out there.

DM 

I concur, but it is not really the equipment manufacturers that control things.  I don't watch much TV (no cable or satellite but get HD over-the-air).  My 6+ yr. old Sharp 9000 projector still looks great and I think I only have a bit under 1,400 hrs. on the original bulb but w/o HDMI (or even DVI) it is out-of-date (and probably my next major audio/video purchase will be a projector).  My 64 inch rear proj. in the basement system which mainly gets used for (daytime over-the-air) sports on weekends is in the same boat.  Probably a small but decent part of what killed off hi-rez audio (SACD or DVD-A) with the mass market was the initial lack of a single digital connection.  I had to go over someone's house last Sat. to hook up a Direct TV box to their rec'r (which I sold them many moons ago - old Onkyo 828 I had in the bedroom system) which is not all that difficult to take a composite video and stereo audio signal out of - they had the cables you couldn't figure it out.  I went over another friend's house to finally hook the monitor output of his rec'r into his TV and set the levels.  He hadn't even done that in years of owning the rec'r.  Requiring the avg. person (not someone into the hobby) to have to deal with multiple cables, new software, special players, competing formats, etc., was not a good move.   DVD-V could have allowed 24/96 stereo, Dolby Digital for the avg. consumer, etc., without the need for a new format.  The expiring royalties on CD technology is what pushed the involved players (studios) to control the next format to have royalty streams.

I hope that Bryston can do something vs. leaving us out in the cold.  While I do understand things are beyond their control, it certainly has to weigh upon people's decisions that perhaps HT processor technology is best looked for elsewhere.  That's why I previously asked about HT bypass on the BP26 (which James indicated is not possible at present and would take a re-design of the product) as I thought that would be a good solution to having quality 2-channel and be able to get the lastest and greatest on home theater.  If something changed down the road I could always rotate equipment between my main, bedroom and basement system.  When I got my Bryston CD player I moved my old Micromega DuoPro DAC (hooked to both Sony 2000ES SACD/CD changer and an Oppo 980) to the bedroom system and that still sounds quite good.

[nicolasb]

Sure -would be glad to give monthly updates if that helps. Believe me it is very frustrating at our end as well when suppliers do not live up to their delivery dates.

Tell us who the suppliers are and we'll send them threatening letters if you like.

Monthly updates would be very welcome. 

Hi All,

As I continue to state - I will not know if upgrades are available to the SP2 until we build the SP3 and see what can be filtered down. Sadly we still have not received the HD chips from our supplier to see what can be done .

While the issue of "will the processors be upgradeable?" is still an unknown, you might, if you felt so inclined, make a firm commitment now as to what you intend to do if it turns out that they aren't upgradeable. As in "If it turns out that there is no way to upgrade an SP1.7 to decode DTS-HD, we will instead insititute the following trade-in policy for SP1.7 owners..."  or whatever.

The problem SP1.7 owners face now is that holding onto an SP1.7 is a financially risky decision. If it turns out that my SP1.7 can be upgraded to combine SP2 processing capability with one or (if possible) 2 HDMI inputs, then it will make sense to hold onto it and get it upgraded (depending on the upgrade cost). If it won't be upgradeable it would make sense to sell it.

The problem is the timing: if I wait to find out whether it will be upgradeable or not, and it turns that it isn't, then by that time it will have been massively devalued compared with what I could make for it if I sold it now; that would happen partly because the launch of the SP3 would make it a doubly-obsolete product, and partly because the release of the information that it cannot be upgraded would, in itself, greatly damage its value. If I knew that I would not lose out financially by holding on to the SP1.7 until after the upgradeability announcement, I would be comfortable waiting. A good trade-in policy would offer that comfort.

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

OK - worst case lets say we decide to offer an exchange - what do you think would be the best way to structure it?


james

[alexone]

that's what i didn't dare to ask for...but for all sp owners it would be the sweetest case, i think.


what do you mean exactly on ''how to structure it'' ? i assume you don't want suggestions for inpus/outputs for the new sp3, 'cause we already talked about that (digital/analog xlr ins/outs, usb, external power supply and so on...)

alex.

[James Tanner]

that's what i didn't dare to ask for...but for all sp owners it would be the sweetest case, i think.


what do you mean exactly on ''how to structure it'' ? i assume you don't want suggestions for inpus/outputs for the new sp3, 'cause we already talked about that (digital/analog xlr ins/outs, usb, external power supply and so on...)

alex.

Hi,

By structure I mean how do we price the trade-in value and how do we keep everyone (dealer , Bryston, customer) happy?

james


james

[alexone]

tough question, james. most of us are not businessmen i think. has there ever been a compareable thing happened to bryston?

an exchange ever in the company's history?

[James Tanner]

tough question, james. most of us are not businessmen i think. has there ever been a compareable thing happened to bryston?

an exchange ever in the company's history?

Hi Alex,

No - this would be a first.

james

[JDoyle]

I would think it would haveto be pro rated for age somehow...  Just some thoughts here;

0-3 month's say 70% towards the MSRP

3-6 months, 50%

6 month to 1 year, 40%

1 year or older, 30%

I would think most would sell online at a higher trade price anyway...

Oh yeah, and is a tuner (FM only) out of the question?

JD

[Phil A]

I'd think that for a similar reason as lack of video circuitry Bryston would not include a tuner.  My bedroom rec'r sits on the other side of the wall to the main system and zone 2 output of the rec'r goes into the Bryston so it is not a big deal to me and I'm waiting to see if HD radio becomes more commonplace.  My bedroom rec'r is 7 yrs. old so I really can't complain.  I don't personally listen to FM all that much.  I've suggested a USB input for portable players or hard drives but it probably can also be used for internet radio

[MacAngus]

This doesn't sound to good regarding an upgrade. I was hoping to hear "we will work it out". I respect James's "worst case scenario", but if the Bryston technicians say; we can do this upgrade but we have to rip out the digital section and start over just to get 1 or 2 HDMI inputs, it's going to cost too much in labour so you might as well start trying to sell an SP3 trade-in and keep your existing customers happy. That's  the audio business. I have been very happy with my SP2 just the way it is, but I don't want it to be obsolete, just yet. I enjoy it for maybe 70% music,(analog-bypass), 30% films/concerts,(digital). I really don't know yet if not having an HDMI input is going to make a difference. Is that the only way to get an: DTS, Dolby Digital HD signal into my system.

[James Tanner]

This doesn't sound to good regarding an upgrade. I was hoping to hear "we will work it out". I respect James's "worst case scenario", but if the Bryston technicians say; we can do this upgrade but we have to rip out the digital section and start over just to get 1 or 2 HDMI inputs, it's going to cost too much in labour so you might as well start trying to sell an SP3 trade-in and keep your existing customers happy. That's  the audio business. I have been very happy with my SP2 just the way it is, but I don't want it to be obsolete, just yet. I enjoy it for maybe 70% music,(analog-bypass), 30% films/concerts,(digital). I really don't know yet if not having an HDMI input is going to make a difference. Is that the only way to get an: DTS, Dolby Digital HD signal into my system.

Hi MacAngus,

Yes as far as I know the tech's tell me HDMI is the only way - due to bandwidth - that you can get the new HD formats.

james