AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: JerryM on 11 Oct 2011, 02:36 am
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Back in April, I got an unexpected phone call from Fritz Heiler of Fritz Speakers. We had not talked in a while, so it was nice to hear from him. After some typical pleasantries and more specific talk of our recent events, Fritz asked if I’d like to demo his REV5 speakers. I explained that I would really like to, but my preamp was at the shop and that I wasn’t certain when I would have it back. Fritz, being far more optimistic than I, stated that I should have the pre back in plenty of time to enjoy some good listening. I took him up on his offer, and the following week Fritz stopped by my work.
Fritz explained that he was headed up North to see his Sweetheart, and it was pretty apparent he was packed for the trip. Digging through the back of his car, he produced a very heavy box that contained the REV5s. Taking a quick peek revealed small stand mount speakers, finished in a gorgeous rosewood veneer. Suddenly, I couldn’t wait to be off work!
Knowing that Fritz had just entrusted me with some very nice gear, I turned to him and assured him that I would take nice care of them in his absence. Fritz replied “Did you get your preamp back yet?” “No”, I replied. With that, Fritz was back poking through the back of his car. This time, he came out with a Blue Circle integrated with pre-outs, and a way bitchin’ power cord. He said “Take this. It will get you through until your pre is back.”
Who does that? I mean, really?
Anyway, Fritz took off, assuring me that he would return the next time he was through town. I went home that night pretty excited, and set everything up. I just guessed at the speaker placement and went from there. Listening that night was enjoyable, but I could tell that I needed to dial in the placement the next day. I relived that scenario each day for a couple of weeks. Honestly, getting these things dialed in to the point I could no longer locate them in the room about kicked my ass, but I finally got it. And then, I finally got it.
The REV5s are some of the most resolving and revealing speakers I have ever had the pleasure to listen to. They play back music and detail that I have never heard before in recordings I am more than familiar with. They are not at all overstated, where the detail becomes grinding, but totally revealing to what is on the recording. I have a live session recording of David Sanborn playing Ballad of the Sad Young Men. I swear, he was in the room every time I played it. Amazingly, though, you can hear him clear the spit valve about two thirds of the way through the song. I know this song like the back of my hand and have never heard that before, or since. I know where it is in the recording now, yet it no longer exists. While sitting here, mouth hanging open and really pleased with myself that I finally nailed the speaker placement, Fritz called. I had to sound like a giddy school girl. :lol:
While I had these speakers, I tried different valves, cables, and even gave the power cord a couple of cool tests. The REV5s revealed every change, every nuance, and every subtle difference. All invisibly, playing back nothing but beautiful music one would not expect from speakers so diminutive.
To make a long story short, Fritz let me keep the REV5s in my system until last month. He called, and stated he would stop by the next day to pick them up. Well, rather than do anything else, I listened to music long and hard until he arrived. When Fritz arrived, I told him “Let’s just cut to the chase.” Fritz sat in the sweet spot and I queued up a 104 dB’s of The Battle, from the Chronicles of Narnia soundtrack. It was just unbelievable. My living room was transformed into a full symphony orchestra, playing the hell out of a great song. I came out from the kitchen with a couple of cold beverages, and the floor was vibrating. I was vibrating. The full beers were vibrating. The music was crystal clear; fantastic. It crossed my mind “Shit; he’s going to think you’re blowing up his speakers!” I looked at Fritz, and his eyes were closed, with a knowing smile on his face. His look spoke volumes, and the music said why.
When the song ended, we both just sat there smiling. I explained that I was going to keep playing music, but that *one* song kind of summed everything up. With that, we started playing music and just shooting the breeze. Every song played was stunning; deep, deep soundstage, perfect imaging and placement, nothing rolled off, and so resolved only good live seats could be better. I started talking to Fritz about speakers I would like to have, and Fritz explained the tradeoffs inherent to all speaker designs. Fritz said “Can I bring in another set of speakers?” That’s like asking if I’d like another beer. :D
So, while I powered down the amp, Fritz got another set of speakers. He explained the difference in the crossover design, and why it had to be different based on the drivers, cabinet, etc. We hooked them up and started listening again. Fritz is a great critical listener. I suddenly learned why the REV5s are so resolving and musical. Fritz nitpicks the hell out of his speakers – things I would never pick out, he does.
To make a longer story even shorter, Fritz went back out to his car no less than 4 times that night. Each trip resulted in another speaker design and more damned fine music. Each step of the way Fritz explained his goals with the speaker, his design differences, and his thoughts on what he wanted to change to make the sound perfect. What I learned is that Fritz is a consummate speaker builder, with damned fine ears. He is also one hell of a craftsman. Each piece exhibited more than fine craftsmanship and finishing skills. Fritz is a master artisan, speaker builder, and fine person, as well.
I wish I could tell you all of the music we listened to that night, and all of the subtle things heard in each song. I cannot, though. There was just too much. What I can tell you is that I lived with the REV5s for four months, and they are a spectacular speaker. They play effortlessly, with no hint of strain, congestion, brightness, or muddiness. They play as well at low levels as they do rattling the rafters. They twinkle at the top end, and punch your gut at the bottom end. The imaging is to die for, once properly placed. If you are in the market for small stand mount speakers, call Fritz and work out a demo. You will be surprised, and not the least bit disappointed.
In closing, thanks again, Fritz. I enjoyed listening to your fine speakers, seeing your fine work, the Warren Haynes tunes, and the laughs. I also genuinely appreciate the use of your preamp; thank you. I have the Touch now, and it’s going off to Wayne very soon. I hope you can stop by again soon. :thumb:
Have fun,
Jerry
PS: Here's a pic of the speakers we listened to that night. The REV5s are on the far right. The speaker barely shown in the foreground is a Fritz Speaker, also. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51247)
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Hello Jerry,
Thanks for sharing your impressions of the Rev5's. I'm listening to them as I type. :thumb:
I gotta be honest though, thus far, my experience with the Rev5's are quite different from yours. That said, I hear some promising stuff going on.
Cheers
Sean
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Glad to hear Fritz is still got the magic :).
My Carbon 7s are still the finest speaker I've heard.
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I too am a big fan of the C7's from what I heard of them at the 2009 AKFest. What is the difference between the Rev5's and that speaker? One has a 7" woofer while the other a 5"?
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What is the difference between the Rev5's and that speaker? One has a 7" woofer while the other a 5"?
Yes and they are also a different Scanspeak model series.
Although the overall sound will be influenced by the design, crossover netowrk and tweeter selection, my general impression (overall, but not specifically with the Fritz speakers, which I have not heard) has been that the Revelator sliced paper cone midwoofers have a slightly more defined and clearer midrange than the Classic carbon fibre filled paper pulp cone midwoofers, which seem to have a bit more impactful bass response.
This is comparing the same size drivers among different speakers, but that perception of response characteristics is also to be somewhat expected when comparing 7" and 5" drivers in general.
Steve
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I had the C7 in my system for 4-5 weeks and then Fritz brought over the R5 and we compared them side by side in the same room and system til the wee hours. I really like the bass extension and impact of the C7 and I also like the detail and resolution of the R5. I think that is a smallish room, the R5 could represent something scarily lose to state of the art with the right electronics. We were using EAR amp/preamp with only 50 WPC so the SPL's were understandably limited on the R5 but a damn fine transducer indeed! Kudos to Fritz :thumb:
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Thanks for the review Jerry.
It's always nice to get the inside story of the industries movers and shakers.
So what stopped you from buying the pair? What speakers do you have now?
Rocket_Ronny
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Thanks for the review Jerry.
It's always nice to get the inside story of the industries movers and shakers.
So what stopped you from buying the pair? What speakers do you have now?
Rocket_Ronny
What stopped me from buying them is, oddly enough, Fritz.
Fritz is a great listener and speaker builder. We have spent enough time together here for him to understand my gear, my room, my goals, and the music I like. We've talked long and hard about the speakers I want, and how he could acheive that end. His thoughts on the subject meet exactly what I've thought.
Fritz will absolutely build my next set of speakers.
All I need now is that elusive 'few extra bucks'. :wink:
Have fun,
Jerry
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Very nicely written. I enjoyed learning about Fritz as much as learning about the speakers. I would love to own a pair of Carbon 7 speakers, but there's no way I can afford them.
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I'm a beginning audiophile, and I'm hoping to find longevity with a setup sooner than later.
Even though I would be financially comfortable <$1000, it seems like it would be wise for me to
go ahead and get something more ($2000ish) because I could just grow with my speakers
and never have to worry about changing them out.
So, I've kind of narrowed it down to HARBETH and FRITZ just from reading online
for the past 6 months.
Seems like a REALLLY good value for the FRITZ, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the looks of them.
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Glad to hear Fritz is still got the magic :).
My Carbon 7s are still the finest speaker I've heard.
I agree with this. Just love the Carbon 7s. I have more expensive speakers in the house, VSA Unifield 3s, and I like those a lot, but I still listen to the C7s quite a bit too. Really enjoy them.
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Mitchell,
Roughly 5 minutes ago, I switched between the Fritz Rev 5's and the Harbeth P3ESR's. If you have questions, I can try to address em' for ya.
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I am familiar with the Harbeths - I would like to read your impressions of the comparison, Zero.
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I'd like to hear that comparison, too. I'm very interested in getting some stand mounted speakers later next year and Fritz is now at the top of my list, based on all the positive reviews of the the Fritz speakers themselves and and his incredible customer service. I've listened to the Harbeths in a show setting, really liked what I heard, and was even considering a purchase, but I know I would regret getting the Harbeths without hearing the Fritz speakers, especially since I live in San Diego. I like that he makes an in home audition readily and easily available. That's very cool.
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I'm standing by to hear your thoughts, Zero. Thanks.
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Nola Boxers and Living Sound Audio LS-1.0 are also well reviewed.
Reading reviews can be misleading. Professionals very rarely slam anything, so you have to do a great deal of reading between the lines. Non-professionals can have a hard time finding the right words or may not have much of a background/experience. Shoot-offs are some of the most useful reviews I've found.
So nothing replaces auditioning for yourself. Everyone has their own values/tastes/interests. And with all the system/room synergy issues, a in-home audition should always be made (especially if the particular piece won't resale well).
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Hi JLM,
I totally agree. I'm new at this, so I haven't "caught on" yet I guess.
I've been reading Stereophile for about a year now, and it almost seems like
the reviews could be INTERCHANGEABLE:
"for the price, you can't beat it"
"I've heard better but not at this price point"
"it was like a veil had been lifted"
blah blah blah.....
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I think it's most reviews from any source. Honestly, I don't know that I have read a review on any mini-monitor that didn't say "These have a surprising amount of bass for their size" and "They punch well above their weight".
Steve
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What caught my attention on the HARBETH is that on the Harbeth forum, the owners really
seem to be IN LOVE with their speakers. I wanna feel like that!
and with FRITZ, there were several non-professionals posting positive reviews on forums
like this one. Those descriptions felt very GENUINE.
(hope Fitz-a-Clause comes to town soon!)
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Personally, I'm intrigued by that Acoustic Reality crossover Fritz uses. I've never seen anything like it.
Anyone here know much about this xover design? :scratch:
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Alright folks. You asked for a comparison, so here it is:
The Harbeth P3ESR's are lovingly crafted in the UK by people with funny accents. The Fritz Rev5's are lovingly crafted somewhere in California by a guy who could pass off as a relative to "The Dude". Neither speaker sucks. Neither speaker will do your laundry, or take your kids to school, or defend your home against unwanted pests. But they do sound pretty good.
The End.
Okay Okay... Maybe there's more to it than that. But that's all I can share for now... mostly because I just experienced a very honest life changing event moments ago and I'm a tad wrapped up in that situation right now. That said, I should be able to fire off a more detailed response to the above queries either later this evening or sometime in the early AM.
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Hey Zero,
Here's hoping for the best in whatever comes from this life-changing moment.
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Sorry for the delay folks! A recent situation had me sidelined for a couple days. The good news is that I'm now able to focus on some cool stuff again - like sharing my thoughts on how the P3ESR's and Rev 5's stack up to one another. So while I busily strum up a small comparison, I'd like to distract you all with a nice teaser pic of the Rev 5's rockin' their 'next season' ribbon mahogany.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54550)
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Sorry for the delay folks. A few more of life's curve balls were thrown my way over the weekend. Anyway, after listening to both the Rev 5's and the P3ESR's on my main system for a couple of hours, I am now ready to share my observations on how these fine transducers stack up to one another. To keep everything simple, I am going to break down my impressions into a few different categories.
What the Harbeth P3ESR's bring to the table
One of the most common words that I find associated with Harbeth loudspeakers is the word; natural. And for good reason... that 5” Radial driver is bad ass. True to Harbeth's reputation, the P3ESR's are absolutely first rate when it comes to recreating the human voice and various acoustic instruments. There is an authenticity to their sound that I find very unique at this price point. And while the Rev 5's do not slip too far behind the P3ESR's in this regard – they are nonetheless forced to play second fiddle when it comes to rendering the most natural sounding tone.
As I spun each disc, it became clear that BOTH of these speakers are all about balancing the yin with the yang. For example, I found that the P3ESR's sport slightly better articulation along the treble – which is likely due to the use of a SEAS metal dome. This extra harmonic information comes at a price though, as I found the P3ESR's treble to be a tad rougher and less refined than the Rev 5's top end.
Likewise, while the bass on the P3ESR's is a tad more harmonically expressive than the Rev5's, that too comes at a price – namely in the form of bass extension and impact. Now to be fair, it bears mentioning that nobody should ever expect to extract deep, strong bass output from a set of sealed speakers that are smaller than a shoebox. Yin and Yang.
Imaging is a toss up as far as I'm concerned. On one hand, the Harbeth's do a better job of locking performers between the speakers. On the other hand, the Rev5's are more holographic and boast of a much more encompassing sound-stage. Again... yin and yang.
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that both of these speakers are fiercely competitive with one another and produce the kind of musical sound that'll keep your rear end glued to the listening chair. At the end of the day though, I feel like the P3ESR's are best suited for the music lover who; A) Listens primarily to simple, non-complex or overly bombastic music, B) can live without deep bass or chest pounding dynamics, C) Owns an amplifier that can output a muscular 30wpc or more, D) Listens primarily at low to medium volume levels, and E) Is extremely sensitive to tonal accuracy.
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What the Fritz Rev 5's bring to the table
Since I've already drawn a number of comparisons between the Rev 5's and the P3ESR's, I am going to keep this portion short and sweet. In short, I believe that the Rev5's will appeal to a wider audience than the P3ESR's. Not because they are inherently better speakers. But because they are more versatile and hit on a number of virtues that I think more people care about.
Going right down the list... The Rev5's are more power efficient than the P3ESR's. They are fuller range (to where you may not even need a sub for many types of music), They are punicher, more dynamic, smooth along the treble, give the music a more authentic sense of scale, and tend to sound better on live recordings due the speakers more lively presentation. They also throw out a wider soundstage while still retaining competence in all the area's that the P3ESR's excel at, such as tone and refinement.
Still, I wouldn't consider the Rev 5's to be better speakers. The Harbeth's are, in my opinion, the more complete sounding speaker. And by 'complete', I mean that they do a better job of culminating all of the individual elements that we listen for (treble, midrange, bass imaging, etc..) into one 'whole' sound. When I listen to the P3ESR's, I rarely find myself going "oooo, listen to that bass!" or "oooo that treble is awesome". Instead, I usually find myself kicking back and enjoying the music without so much as a forethought into all that audiophile vernacular. Well, at least until the music gets rockin'. But I digress...
As I mentioned earlier - both of these speakers have what it takes please a discerning music lover. I know that if I had to chose between the two, the decision would be tough. At the end of the day though, I'd go with a set of Fritz Rev 5's. As much as I love my little P3ESR's, I could never use them as mains. I listen to too many different types of music, and their limitations would kill a lot of it. Now don't get me wrong... the P3ESR's are absolutely wonderful speakers. The Rev5's won't be able to capture the silky and soothing tone of Songbird Ella Fitzgerald like the P3ESR's do. But when it comes down to rockin other forms of music, be it Incubus, Tool, Mahler's 5th, or whatever... the Rev5's will not fall on their ass. And that, to me, is the deal breaker.
Edit: In case you all are wondering, I used the following electronics in the above evaluation: AMR CD-777 CD-player ; Karan Acoustic KA I-180 integrated amplifier ; MIT CVT2 interconnects and speaker cables
PS: It's also worth noting that I own the little P3ESR's and am 100% happy with their performance on my desktop system - where their limitations are highly mitigated.
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Differences in size...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54601)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=54602)
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Sean:
Very cool - thanks for the comparo. Hope all is worked out on the personal front.
-Mike
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Nice write up Zero.
a few years ago an acquaintance drew similar conclusions
between a very good British Mini-monitor & ACI Saphire XLs.
He chose the ACI Glossy Black Monitors & sold his British Brand.
His only reservations was what if he moved up to 7" sized monitors.
He eventually bought a pair of Floor Standing Salk HT1. Versatility
and some swagger carried the day.
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Very nice and well written review of these two monitors. I'd prefer the Fritz Rev 5's but that's just me. At 85.5db sens, I would think more than 15wpc would be required to drive them well. I'd appreciate any comments about driving the Rev 5's with a 50wpc A/B amp. Thanks! :D
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Informative write up, Zero - thank you.
Very nice integrated amplifier, that Karan, from all reports.
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Hey boys. Thanks for the comments! As some of you may have noticed - I decided to trim off (what I perceived as) fat from my original synopsis.
Groovy - How you doin' bro? Yep, things are goin better on the personal front. Thanks. :) So... Will there be a set of mini-Evolutions under your Christmas tree this year?
Carl V - I used to own a set of ACI Sapphire XL's. Great speakers! Sadly, I've never had the opportunity to spend quality time with a set of Salks HT1's - only the Songtowers. Oh.. and I agree.. versatility and 'swag' def. go along way. :D
Roymail - 15 wpc is what I'd call the minimum power requirement. The Rev5's should sound pretty spiffy being driven by an EL84 tube amp in a small room and on relatively simple music. If you want to get rockin' though, then yes... I'd raise that minimum to the 50/60 wpc mark. They love their juice!
Russell - Yep, I can't warrant too many complaints against the Karan - except for maybe its jaw dropping price tag.
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Still waitin' for the Evolution Acoustics MMMicroOne. It's been a long slog (I placed an order in January this year) , but my understanding from Jonathan Tinn is they should be shipping after CES coming up in January. He's assured me if I can be patient, they're more than worth the wait. Based on what I've been reading about them, I'm willing to trust him. Will post something on AC as soon as I have them.
Glad everything's cool with your situation!
-Mike
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Hey Mike,
From what I've read, the MMMicroOne's should be stellar performers. I look forward to reading your thoughts on em'. Hopefully that'll happen sooner, rather than later. :)
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Hope so, hope so. While I'm not thrilled about the wait, it's not like I've been slummin' - my current Harbeth C7ES-3's are singing quite nicely with my LFD amp and Eastern Electric Minimax DAC Plus (using iMac as source, running Decibel - streaming tunes from NAS across Wi-Fi).
-Mike
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Have you ever looked back at the things you've said in the past and wonder; "Why in the hell did I even say that? What was I thinking?" Well, I just had one of those moments. After skimming through the little 'review' that I posted a number of months ago, I'm borderline horrified at how misleading some of the content actually is. In this review, I made it sound as though the Harbeth P3ESR's are one-trick ponies that only sound acceptable when reproducing simple music - which isn't true. I also, for whatever reason, seemed to shine a 'can do no wrong' light onto the Fritz Rev 5's - which also isn't true. So in an effort to right my wrongs, I'd like to take a moment to submit the following amendments to my original 'review'. First up; the Harbeth's.
In my synopsis, I give the strong impression that the P3ESR's are dynamically constipated, bass shy, and not suitable for anyone who listens to complex music at moderate volumes. And while it's true that these sealed half-pints may not be the first choice for anyone who is looking to rattle door knobs or make it sound as though Metallica is playing a gig in your living-room, that doesn't mean that the P3ESR's are lacking dynamic prowess. In fact, when you consider the speakers small size and design type, the dynamic expression that Harbeth has been able to muster from these things is quite impressive. All that it really takes to 'open them up' is healthy diet of high current juice. As for musical competence...
As someone who possesses an eclectic taste taste in music, and as someone who has been listening to the P3ESR's on a daily basis for well over a year, I can personally vouch for their ability to sound good on music that goes beyond the whole 'little girl with their guitar'-type audiophile demo material. Hell, just within the past couple of hours, I've shuffled through artists like; The Beatles, The Smiths, Melody Gardot, Ella Fitzgerald, LMFAO, She and Him, Tool, Tchaikovsky, Incubus, Cradle of Filth, Whitney Houston, Zac Brown Band, Epica, Nicki Minaj, the list goes on... Musically competent? I'd like to think so.
At the end of the day though, these speakers cannot escape the limitations that are inherent to nearly every small loudspeaker. They won't play super loud. They aren't going to be extremely power efficient. And you shouldn't expect them to fill huge rooms with tout bass. However, I do not feel like these limitations compromise the P3ESR's ability to paint a musically enjoyable landscape. I'm sorry for making it seem otherwise.
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Alrighties... Now it’s time to focus on the Rev 5’s. The good news is that I don’t have a lot to say here, mostly because I plan on scribbling up the bulk of my impressions in a separate review . Still, I want to address a couple things while I’m at it…
For starters, I can't help but laugh at how my synopsis all but suggests that Fritz Rev 5's were delivered to us by sheer divine providence. The truth is that the Fritz Rev 5’s are no different from any other transducer on the market. They have a distinct (warm) aural character. Some people are going to love that character, while others won’t care for it. Moving on....
I also wish to retract a statement that I made earlier, which reads: “I know that if I had to choose between the two, the decision would be tough. At the end of the day though, I’d go with a set of Fritz Rev 5’s”. Wow. Once again, I find myself wondering just what in the hell was going through my head at the time. Don't get me wrong... The Rev 5's are good speakers that are certainly deserving of genuine praise. But when you get right down to it, the Rev5's have been returned home and the P3ESR's are still in my abode. Take from that what you will.
Alright folks. That about does it. I'll be working on separate review of the Rev 5's, which I'll post in a new thread (sorry for polluting this one, Jerry)
Thanks for reading!