[Builder Brad]

Hello,

I am waiting for my Red Wine Audio modded SB2 and have opted for the full treatment inc battery power and Vinnie has agreed to provide the connections for the AC power option, although he is not going to provide the 12v switching supply as I want to build or source a linear alternative. I have found the following supply on Farnell:

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=183817&N=401

is it any good?

and can it be modded ?

Brad

[ctviggen]

I think that's a 12 volt output power supply, and the SB is 5 volts DC in.

[Builder Brad]

The Red Wine Audio mods include a 12 volt battery supply which also provides a 5v regulated supply for the DAC circuits. The power supply for the  RWA upgraded SB2 needs to be 12 volts and 1.5amps.

Brad

[Occam]

The Red Wine Audio mods include a 12 volt battery supply which also provides a 5v regulated supply for the DAC circuits. The power supply for the  RWA upgraded SB2 needs to be 12 volts and 1.5amps.

Brad

Actually, the wall connected supply for the RWA Battery mods needs a 12 volt SLA battert charger, which is quite a different animal from a 12 powersupply.....
You asked Vinnie the question on his Circles''s thread -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22021
and Vinnie gave you the Farnell sku #3269760 of the UK equivalent 12v BATTERY charger, which you'd need if you bought Vinnies 'off the grid' (except for recharging) solution.

Edit - Brad - I may have misunderstood your question. If your query was about a 12v ps to run the RWA SB2 ps while the battery is recharging?, then that 12v PS. It appear to be roughly equialent in specs and size as the Condors, Power Ones, and International Power linear supplies, save for the fact that the P-P ripple seems a bit lower @3vppin the Advance Power supply, where the ones available Stateside have about 5vp-p ripple.

[Builder Brad]

Hi Paul,

I am looking at the 12 volt power supply to run the SB2 when recharging the battery supply. I am considering either sourcing a good quality ready built unit such as the Farnells one mentioned earlier or building a super regulator type from P-As project pages: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-50719/  I have been advised that the JSR 04 kit would work well at 1.5 amps with + side of the supply used.

I am kind of all DIYd out at the mo and trying not to take on too many projects so a simple solution would be best, as long as it is good valkuie for money..

Brad

[ctviggen]

Sorry, I misunderstood your question.  I don't see why that wouldn't be a good supply -- isn't it 4 amps output?  The SB is only 1 amp.  I'm not sure how Vinnie's apparatus works though -- is there a separate power supply to charge the battery?  Or would you both be charging the battery and running the SB2 from your new power supply>

[Builder Brad]

Hi Bob,

There will be 2 supplies with the RWA modded SB2, one is an automatic SLA battery charger and the other one is there for when the battery is charging. The standard SB uses the 5v supply to make 12v internally the RWA mods remove some of this circuitry and usea 5v regulator for the lower voltage componets.

Brad

[ctviggen]

Well, the power supply should work -- 1.8A output, about 1mV ripple for 12V output.  To me, 1mV ripple isn't bad for 12V (that's about 0.008 percent).  Now, whether it's modifiable or not, I don't know.

[agentsmith]

I am going through my spare power supplies lying around at home, and I have some questions on the labelling:

1. How can I tell if a PS is linear or switching if the labels do not explicitly say so?

2. How do I know if a PS will work with the Squeebox2?  And if the Volts or the Amps are higher am I going to burn the Sb2 out?

If there is a guide somewhere on how to read these labels I would appreciate a pointer.

Also, I found this Power supply from my IPAQ 4150, the Volts and Amps are the same.  Can someone tell me if the specs are good enough?  And if it is a linear or switching supply?

http://www.pchub.com/uph/laptop/345-18595-2025/Delta-Electronics-Inc.-ADP-10SB-REV.DH-AC-Power-Adaptor-5V-12V.html

[Occam]

Agentsmith,

The ps you linked to is a switching supply. If you click on the picture on the referenced url, from the larger picture, -
http://www.pchub.com/uph/catf/BigPicture.aspx?iid=18595&PhotPath=6324537043192187502_ADP-10SB%20REV.DH.jpg
you'll be able to see that the voltage range is specified as 100-240vac, which is indicative of a switching supply. Other than that, even without the specific labeling I'd assume it to be a switching supply given its size. Linear supplies are generally substantially larger that an equivalent switching supply, but that distinction is based on experience and familiarity.

When trying to determine as to whether a ps is switching or linear, the obvious 'giveaway' is the voltage range. If it is generally specified by a broad range like 100-240vac, it usally means it is a switching supply, as switching supplies tend to handle a large variance in supply voltage.

But in the case of wallwarts that have a specific wall plug, even if it is a switching supply, it may well only specify a single voltage, as its determined by that plug. Then you have to make a guess based upon size and va rating.

For 'table warts' with IEC inlets, that same specified  broad range also indicates a switcher, as an IEC cord could deliver via the wall 100-120vac or 220-240vac.
But if the range is specified as 100-120 and 220-240vac, it could well be either a switcher or linear supply with an external or internal switch or jumpers to configure it for those specified ranges. Again size and experience helps.

In the case of raw supplies such as -
http://www.cascadesurplus.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/99/products_id/856
you'll see that the voltage range is given as 'AC input: 100,120,220, 230 or 240 volt selectable'. Note that it is NOT specified as 100-240vac.
If you click on the picture, you can see that large black square which, with experience will tell you is a transformer and it a linear with primary voltage taps to accomodate the various voltages. A picture from the other side would make the identification of the transformer substantially easier.

Now here is a large caveat - With surplus sources, one shouldn't assume the vendor is anymore knowledgeable than you are -
http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=TM01PWS4465&Category_Code=PWS
Now this is clearly identified as a switching supply, but (I believe) it is actually a linear regulated supply, given its size and it being much like the Hosfelt supply, no longer in stock, that I previously recommended. (Given the vaugaries of the description, I'd also assume that the output plug, or whole output cord would have to be replaced/reconfigured)

[tvyankee]

hey occam,

can you tell me what ps to get if i have the red wine modded sb2.

i have the switch installed to switch between battery and wall wart.

thanks for the help.

hope to see you at phils.

[agentsmith]

Agentsmith,

The ps you linked to is a switching supply. If you click on the picture on the referenced url, from the larger picture, -
http://www.pchub.com/uph/catf/BigPicture.aspx?iid=18595&PhotPath=6324537043192187502_ADP-10SB%20REV.DH.jpg
you'll be able to see that the voltage range is specified as 100-240vac, which is indicative of a switching supply. Other than that, even without the specific labeling I'd assume it to be a switching supply given its size. Linear supplies are generally substantially ...

Thanks for your very detailed and well considered explainations.  being a non-engineer I will have to reread some of what you wrote to digest it.

One question though, if you look closely, there is a word printed as "LPS", I thought that may depict "Linear Power Supply", is it possible this may be the odd exception?

This supply is slighly more bulky then the SB2 provided one.

[Davey]

agentsmith,

Nope, I don't think that PS is an exception.  I believe it's definitely a switcher supply.

Keep your eyes peeled and you should be able to find something cheap in your area.

I noticed they still have the Elpac supply at

http://www.electronicsurplus.com/commerce/ccp78438-5vdc-40-1-5a-power-supply-with-a--5-ft-2cond--23-18-wm075-1950-d5-139896.htm

This one has the DIN connector that needs to be clipped off and replaced with the two-conductor power connector, but it should work fine.

Cheers,

Davey.

[Occam]

Agentsmith,

I think Davey's comment was spot on. Indeed one might think that LPS would indicate a linear supply, in the same way that PC hub supplies part number of 'PN: 253628-031 SPS' might indicate a switching power supply. I'm soooooo confused. Regardless, I do believe that quoted input range of 100-240vac as well as the size is compelling (yet circumstantial) evidence that it is a switcher.
I'm assuming the link you posted indicates you're in an ASEAN country, and sadly, the availability of surplus components seems to be far less than here in the States.


Tvyankee,

I'm assuming the ps you're seeking is one that replaces the 12sla batteries, that passes that voltage on to the DtoA section with its own regulators and takes a portion and regulates that down to 5v internal to the ps and passes it on to another portion of the SB. But a 12v sla typically produces 13v+. Regardless, I'm assuming that a 12v dc supply is sufficient to serve your needs. (Perhaps Vinnie will weigh in here). The only regulated linear table/wall warts I've been abble to find are the  Elpacs available from Cascade and BGMicro -
http://www.cascadesurplus.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/99/products_id/1054
http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=PWR1022&page=1&cri=PWR&stype=2
either will require, I assume, replacement of the output plug. Nor do I know if the 1.2 amp rating is sufficient for this application, as it appears borderline.

Alternatively, there are unhoused 12v linear supplies available surplus. But the effort required to house it, add cords, etc.... seems a royal pain given that you've invested in Vinnie's custom ps, and that the intent of the external grid based feed is simply to not drain the battery for casual listening
http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=PWR1176&page=6&cri=PWR&stype=2
http://www.alltronics.com/power_sources.htm
(first entry, Sola 12 or 15vdc supply)

[Vinnie R.]

hey occam,

can you tell me what ps to get if i have the red wine modded sb2.

i have the switch installed to switch between battery and wall wart.

thanks for the help.

hope to see you at phils.

Hi tyyankee,

I recommend a linear power supply that is approx 12Vdc and can output at least 1.5A.  The plug is a 5mm type with a 2.1mm center pin (center pin is positive).  

This is used to bypass the internal switching supply (approx. 14Vdc) that feeds a linear regulator used by the dac.  To be on the safe side, I wouldn't use a supply with a voltage greater than 14Vdc.

Here is an example of one that should do the trick:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-1135

There might be cheaper ones out there with similar specs.  

Regards,

[Occam]

Hi Vinne,

Thanks for the clarification on the appropriate range of the supply  voltage. Looking at the size of that table wart from PE-
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-1135

I wouldn't think it is regulated. Therefore, the voltage output at less than full current rating is going to be substantially higher than that 13.5 vdc. Similarly, its lack of regulation implicitly is going to have higher ripple (and noise?) than a reasonably implemented regulated linear supply.
If that table wart isn't regulated, would this supply, at equivalent price, also from PE, possibly be more appropriate?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-532

Tripplite, Samlex, Pyramid, RatShaque, etc.... all market these power supplies, often as 12v SLA substitution supplies, to allow car electronics such as CB radios, to be run off of mains. These typically descibe themselves as 13.8v power supplies, the nominal voltage of a fully charged 12v SLA battery. A search on froogle, ebay, individual sites, using the keywords '13.8v' and 'power supply' will usally find them, if there.

Then again, if that PE table wart is actually regulated, ummmm, errrrrr,
nevermind.
We realize that the intent of the AC power option on your battery supply is simply for casual background listening, but hey, this is the Lab, where every subject, no matter what, deserves to be obscessively beaten to death.....

[Vinnie R.]

If that table wart isn't regulated, would this supply, at equivalent price, also from PE, possibly be more appropriate?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=120-532
.

Hi Occam,

Yes, absolutely!  If PE didn't state "regulated," it is best to assume that it is NOT regulated and in that case, cross it off of the list... my bad.

Regarding the Pyramid, I've used a similar supply from Tripp-Lite (linear, regulated) and it did the trick.  Also, I went into a local rat shack and they had one of these 13.8V, 3A supplies as well, but it was a SMPS (stated on the box, which was also very light weight...usually an indicator of this).  

We realize that the intent of the AC power option on your battery supply is simply for casual background listening, but hey, this is the Lab, where every subject, no matter what, deserves to be obscessively beaten to death.....

Understood...it goes with the territory  

Thanks for mentioning that Pyramid....looks like a better choice.

Vinnie

[agentsmith]

Agentsmith,

I think Davey's comment was spot on. Indeed one might think that LPS would indicate a linear supply, in the same way that PC hub supplies part number of 'PN: 253628-031 SPS' might indicate a switching power supply. I'm soooooo confused. Regardless, I do believe that quoted input range of 100-240vac as well as the size is compelling (yet circumstantial) evidence that it is a switcher.
I'm assuming the link you posted indicates you're in an ASEAN country, and sadly, the availability of surp ...

Thanks for the infomation.

I am not neccessarily looking for surplus products, just trying to make sure I can get my hands on a decent quality power supply that fulfils my curiosity of tweaking.

One more silly question, if I can find a largish linear power supply, and the output Volts and/or the ampere number is larger, is it going to blow my SB2 into pieces?  How do read the numbers?  is there some sort of an online guide to reading power supplies?

[mgalusha]

I was ordering some other stuff from Jameco today and checked their power supply stock out of curiousity. They offer a 5v, 1A regulated linear for $11.95. Don't know anything about it other than what is posted on the web page.

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=211060

[Davey]

Yes indeed, that's a linear supply that looks like it would work fine.

Cheers,

Davey.