best Speaker cables for CAM

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Jorge

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best Speaker cables for CAM
« on: 4 Dec 2017, 03:43 pm »
HI,

I was wondering if anybody has already good exprience with speaker cables to link a pair of Compact AlNiCo Monitor  with  Leben 300Xs or ZTOL10. Look forward hearing  from some experiences and costs.

Thank you!

roscoe65

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #1 on: 4 Dec 2017, 03:44 pm »
I've had great experience with Supra cables.  They are what Louis uses as OEM cable and they are very inexpensive.  They are a tinned copper stranded cable. 

Jorge

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #2 on: 4 Dec 2017, 04:21 pm »
Thank you,

Is there any technical explanations or just personal taste?

I do use also QED 40 as for Luis suggestion also. But I wonder if there is anything else specially thinking on the ZTOL10.

DaveC113

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #3 on: 4 Dec 2017, 04:34 pm »
My SL17 and SMSG20 SCs are designed for speakers like Omega.

The Supra or wire like Duelund tinned copper is fairly warm sounding. The SL17 is UPOCC copper litz and is much clearer sounding, more resolving and less warm. The SMSG20 even moreso, better resolution and very little artificial warmth.

The price goes up quite a bit though through these 3 options, so budget is an important factor. Personally, I find warm wire like tinned copper obscures too much detail and I'd use mil-spec wire for a less expensive option... this is silver plated copper instead of tinned copper and has teflon insulation instead of PVC. Being military surplus it's even cheaper too. Some find it bright sounding but it depends on the system, often this isn't the case. You can get it on ebay or surplus outlets like Apex Jr. A simple twisted pair using a drill to twist the wires would work fine.

doggie

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #4 on: 5 Dec 2017, 02:20 pm »
HI,

I was wondering if anybody has already good exprience with speaker cables to link a pair of Compact AlNiCo Monitor  with  Leben 300Xs or ZTOL10. Look forward hearing  from some experiences and costs.

Thank you!

I have a ZOTL10 and a pair of Omega HO Alnico floorstanders. I use Duelund tinned copper 20ga wire and have even wired the speakers internally with it. I also use the 24ga for IC's.

I find the Duelund to give a very natural tone with lots of detail. I have not found it to have unnatural warmth or to obscure detail. It is also relatively inexpensive and can be purchased easily from The Parts Connexion. I have tried wire containing silver for both speaker cables and IC's and always find them to have a overly bright and etched quality to my ears. As always this is a matter of personal taste and listening preference.

If you buy pre-made cables try to purchase from a place/vendor with a liberal return policy so that you can audition them. DaveC113, who is a cable vendor, has a good return policy.

Also my experience is that cables need break-in time to sound their best. This can be 100 hours or much more...

The ZOTL10 and the CAMs will be a match made in heaven!

Jorge

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #5 on: 6 Dec 2017, 02:16 pm »
Doggie,

Thank you  very much for the suggestion. By the way, I will also go for the combination ZTOL10 + HO in the coming months, if everything goes well. I asume your are happy with it. Coming from my CAM i wonder which will be the differences in sound for the same amp...

good to hear your experience with the HO and the ZTOL.

I am close to Heaven with my set up, I need to be "IN" soon...

Jorge

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #6 on: 19 Dec 2017, 11:35 am »
Hi everyone,

Any suggestion for proper separation between CAM speakers or similar? I have been trying 2,20m between them ( center) with clear sound and imagine. Suggestions about possitioning from rear wall and sides. walls protected with Basotec for absortion and some difussors also. Toe in is quite clear

Room size is 6m long x 4m wide and 2,5m tall.


Many thanks!

JLM

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #7 on: 19 Dec 2017, 01:18 pm »
I'm an old audiophile fart and won't spend big money on wire of any kind.  Have had zero success with tweaks.  For most wires good connectors are important but they don't need to cost an arm and a leg.  For modern hi-end audio systems recommend balanced components and wires, and  locking banana connectors and the right gauge for speaker wire and don't fret the rest which is marketing hype, period.  Like any desperate person, we have a need to believe whatever an "expert" tells us.  And why would you want to color all your music with 'warmth' or some other type of limitation or coloration anyway?

Here's my favorite wire link:  http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/speaker-cable-and-audio-interconnects

RDavidson

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #8 on: 20 Dec 2017, 03:22 am »
It isn't all marketing hype. Though I appreciate a purely scientific approach to this stuff, science has limits too. We are human, not measurement devices. Even the very best audio equipment designers understand this and typically rely on listening tests as the arbiter of sound quality. And one other thing ; Anything in the chain will affect the eventual sound. Show me typical, studio and broadcast quality cables that measure perfectly (electrically), and I'll show you cables that are colored and masked in comparison to cables made of ultra high purity copper (UPOCC).

JLM

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #9 on: 20 Dec 2017, 01:11 pm »
Agree that science doesn't have all the answers but the psychological need to believe in an accepted expert, say a doctor, is very strong and can easily sway our judgement.  In fact true science is about questioning, not ramming 'facts' down everyone's throats.  OTOH have you ever done (or at least read of) a double blind comparison of speaker wire with a panel of recognized golden ear experts with really good speakers/room?

Years ago I was at a local audio meeting where we compared (certainly nothing scientific) two $1,000 USD pairs of speaker cables that couldn't have been more different in design (and sound).  One looked like a silver garden hose, the other a nearly invisibly thin wire in clear ribbon sheathes.  Science would predict what we heard, the thin one lacked bass response.  But that lack of bass revealed greater clarity of the higher frequencies.  That lack of any part of the frequency spectrum (a very basic premise for accurate sound reproduction IMO) removes it from consideration as 'high-end', period.

Yes, everything in the audio system can affect the sound.  My argument against boutique external wires is to ask what wire is used inside each component of each piece of gear (probably several types and certainly of much lesser quality) and how that limits the final sound.  And of course that sort of concern can be extended to whatever aspect of the production/reproduction chain you choose.  Fixating on one small piece of the pie, like UPOCC, represents the kind of logic that feeds audio nervosa and the home audio industry.

hibuckhobby

Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #10 on: 20 Dec 2017, 03:46 pm »
One of things most of us are intimately familiar with is "audiophilia nervosa".  It's supposed to be all
about the music, but it's also about the gear and the belief that nirvana is just around the corner
and will be found with the next purchase.
Hibuck....

mick wolfe

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #11 on: 20 Dec 2017, 04:29 pm »
Yep, totally agree. I arrived at "nirvana" many times .....only to look for "nirvana" again in about a month.

RDavidson

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #12 on: 23 Dec 2017, 07:36 pm »
Yes, everything in the audio system can affect the sound.  My argument against boutique external wires is to ask what wire is used inside each component of each piece of gear (probably several types and certainly of much lesser quality) and how that limits the final sound.  And of course that sort of concern can be extended to whatever aspect of the production/reproduction chain you choose.  Fixating on one small piece of the pie, like UPOCC, represents the kind of logic that feeds audio nervosa and the home audio industry.

That’s getting toward the absolute bottom of all this. I disagree with blanket statements like "it’s all marketing hype" or "if it can’t be measured, then it is snake oil." It absolutely, 100%, comes down to one’s own ears and experiences. As there is so much variation (in systems and rooms) and other factors that cannot be accounted for, by anything less than on an individual basis, how can anyone make a final statement about any of this and spread it as gospel? It’s absurd and offensive. If one wants to focus on cabling and the material qualities at that juncture (which you agreed can affect the sound), there’s nothing wrong with this. Why limit yourself, or worse, encourage others to limit themselves? This lives at the crux of "audiophilia nervousa" ; Making others afraid to make the wrong choice...when there's no wrong choice to be made. This is why I would never sway someone away from giving something a try...even if it doesn’t make total sense to me personally. There’s a lot to be learned. I try to encourage people to gain as much experience as they can on their own...though I realize that this trial process can cost money. But let’s be honest about that. Hobbies cost money. Period. I will share my personal preferences and biases if I think it is helpful to a conversation. The point is, YMMV with this stuff. I think we can agree on that. Whether you decide to give some UPOCC cables a try or not, is up to you. I encourage you to give it a try, that’s all. You may be surprised. Maybe not. At least you’d have that experience before simply dismissing it out of hand and telling others they should also dismiss it.
« Last Edit: 25 Dec 2017, 05:06 am by RDavidson »

TJ-Sully

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #13 on: 24 Dec 2017, 02:25 pm »
yep. applies to many things in life, RD. well said.
TJ

doggie

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Re: best Speaker cables for CAM
« Reply #14 on: 14 Jan 2018, 02:04 pm »
One of things most of us are intimately familiar with is "audiophilia nervosa".  It's supposed to be all
about the music, but it's also about the gear and the belief that nirvana is just around the corner
and will be found with the next purchase.
Hibuck....

Agreed.

To quote a recent article about audiophiles from the New York Times.

"The goal can never be reached. The quest itself is the point."

...For many of us it is as much about the chase as the consummation...