The quality level of bass reproduction... exceeds any other...at any price.

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Captainhemo

I'll throw in my 2 cents regarding the OB servo subs in H frame.  I had them in my GR V1s, I gave the V1s to my son and built another pair of the servo subs for me.  The GR servo subs in OB are the best bass I have heard, I also have 4-15" AE sub drivers in infinite baffle driven by a 2400 watt behringer amp in my Home theater system, the GRs are my preference.  If you want to hear bass detail the GRs servos in OB are the way to go IMHO.

Best,
Ed

and,  the Ob  H-frames will play up  quite high if you need them to, Danny  has  crossed to them in numerous designs inthe 200hz  region

jay

HAL

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Let me put a big "AMEN" to what Tyson is saying. I have three GR Research 12" per side, in an OB configuration. I was listening to the Mahler 9th the other night (lots of deep bass from bass viols and an organ) and I was once again blown away by the quality of the bass: it growls; it has real texture; it is unstrained and undistorted with no overhang.

At the 2016 Capital Audiofest, I heard a system with SIX stacked woofers per side. And, I believe, Rich Hollis (Hollis Audio Labs) is building one as well. Really great, natural sound.

Yes, the two 6x12's servo subs are done and are amazing with my line arrays.

Tyson

Yes, the two 6x12's servo subs are done and are amazing with my line arrays.

The only thing better than two twelve inch servo subs per side is 6 twelve inch servo subs per side!!!  Haha I love the way you put the pedal to the metal  :thumb:

Tyson

Let me put a big "AMEN" to what Tyson is saying. I have three GR Research 12" per side, in an OB configuration. I was listening to the Mahler 9th the other night (lots of deep bass from bass viols and an organ) and I was once again blown away by the quality of the bass: it growls; it has real texture; it is unstrained and undistorted with no overhang.

At the 2016 Capital Audiofest, I heard a system with SIX stacked woofers per side. And, I believe, Rich Hollis (Hollis Audio Labs) is building one as well. Really great, natural sound. 

And also huge dynamics too!  I was watching Bladerunner 2049 two days ago and the bass is just crushing!  And then it stops on a dime.  Goes from a whisper to a punch in the gut and back again with zero overhang or bloat. 

I run mine up to 200hz and they sound awesome.

mikeeastman

Tyson how do you get your subs to run at 200 hz mine only goes up to 120 hz ?

Tyson

If you set it to 120hz and measure you’ll see it is only like 6db down at 200hz.  Since my Super 7s start to roll off the mids right there, its perfect for a 200hz hand over.

Audiogeek2

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Interesting guys. All the sealed subwoofers i have now or have had (Rythmik, SVS, Paradign, Seaton) dont sound very good above 100Hz. The 15 inch AE bass drivers I have sound great to well over 200Hz, but are slightly lacking in the deep bass for impact. Although even that is marginal with great amplification.

I have not had an implementation that can do both upper bass and sub bass really well - have always needed separate drivers. Talking about music rather than home theatre use.

What does OB bring over a sealed enclosure that makes it work here? Do you loose anything?

HAL

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The OB servo subs use the Linkwitz Transform to correct the H-Frame cabinet to the 12" OB paper driver response used in these subs.   Very different idea than the other sealed or ported designs mentioned.  Lots of things written on this concept.

They load a room differently than a sealed sub.  They have a figure of 8 pattern radiation pattern instead of an omni.  This changes the room response to remove the bloat or boom a lot of sealed or ported designs give.

I easily go from less than 20Hz to 200Hz with mine and no sense of loss in any register.  Just sounds like clean natural bass. 

They do like space behind them, so that is something to consider. 

Had Genesis 12M and VMPS Standard subs with speakers.  These are way beyond their capabilities. 

Captainhemo

If you set it to 120hz and measure you’ll see it is only like 6db down at 200hz.  Since my Super 7s start to roll off the mids right there, its perfect for a 200hz hand over.

Just  to be clear for guys not familiar with thiese, you need to use the  Avr/12  slope seting onthe  A370.  You won't make it up that high using the  50/24 or 80/24. slopes.



jay

mlundy57

The OB application is great for music but not so great for the ultra low infasonic frequencies found in the Low Frequency Effect (LFE/.1) track of movies, especially action movies. The drivers can bottom out. Also, the difference in room loading of the OB application doesn't produce the chest thump of a sealed or ported sub which is great for music but lacking for home theater.

So if you want the best bass for music only, go with a stereo application of OB subs. If you want the best bass experience for home theater only, go with the sealed or ported application. If you want the best bass for a combination music and home theater system, go with stereo OB subs on the main channels and use one or more sealed or ported subs on the LFE channel(s). Danny has used the combination of OB subs up front and a sealed in the back of the room running out of phase for music only. Which would actually be the ultimate music arrangement.

My Living room system is primarily home theater. With this system I have a Rythmik F12 on the LFE/sub out channel of the AV receiver. My upstairs system is for both music and home theater. In this system I have OB subs on the left and right main channels and a GR/Rythmik sealed sandbox sub on the AVR's LFE channel.

The GR/Rythmik servo subs, whether sealed/ported and OB, are the best I've heard for their respective applications. Choose the configuration that best suits your needs and budget.

 

guf

Just  to be clear for guys not familiar with thiese, you need to use the  Avr/12  slope seting onthe  A370.  You won't make it up that high using the  50/24 or 80/24. slopes.



jay

Holy crap. That made a huge difference! What did I just do?

Captainhemo

Holy crap. That made a huge difference! What did I just do?

Well, if you just  flipped the switch to the AVR/12 setting .  you're now dropping  12db/octave starting at the  c/o dial position.. If you  were using  either the 50/24  or 80/24  slope setting, you were dropping  12 db /oct starting at  either   50 o 80hz and also another  12 /oct at whatever  you  had the dial set to  so you  end up with a much steeper roll off with either of the  x/24  slopes

hjay

ZimAhUm

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Holy crap. That made a huge difference! What did I just do?

 :lol: Is that a GOOD huge difference?!

ZimAhUm

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Well, if you just  flipped the switch to the AVR/12 setting .  you're now dropping  12db/octave starting at the  c/o dial position.. If you  were using  either the 50/24  or 80/24  slope setting, you were dropping  12 db /oct starting at  either   50 o 80hz and also another  12 /oct at whatever  you  had the dial set to  so you  end up with a much steeper roll off with either of the  x/24  slopes

hjay

That's such a cool way to be able to dial in your sub.  This control combined with phase adjustment is really a smart way to go  :D just curious: where do you set your "extension filter" switch?

oskar

Just to be clear; OB subs must be located well away from from walls. Correct?
So if there is no way to have 3' behind sub to wall then sealed is the next best option?

Danny Richie

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Quote
The OB application is great for music but not so great for the ultra low infasonic frequencies found in the Low Frequency Effect (LFE/.1) track of movies, especially action movies. The drivers can bottom out.

We have had this issue with running a pair of the SW-12-08FR drivers on the A370 amps. At that impedance level the amp does have the power to push the drivers to beyond X-Max with frequency ranges at or below 20Hz. So we have gone back to using a pair of the SW-12-16FR woofers instead. The amp still has the power to drive them to X-Max but not beyond. And for dual SW-12-08FR drivers we are recommending the HX300 amp.

Danny Richie

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Just to be clear; OB subs must be located well away from from walls. Correct?
So if there is no way to have 3' behind sub to wall then sealed is the next best option?

The can be placed near or even right up on the side walls. They just need space behind them.

And yes, if space is limited then the sealed box design is the way to go.

mlundy57

We have had this issue with running a pair of the SW-12-08FR drivers on the A370 amps. At that impedance level the amp does have the power to push the drivers to beyond X-Max with frequency ranges at or below 20Hz. So we have gone back to using a pair of the SW-12-16FR woofers instead. The amp still has the power to drive them to X-Max but not beyond. And for dual SW-12-08FR drivers we are recommending the HX300 amp.

Since it is the 4 ohm load that the dual SW-12-08FRs presents that causes the bottoming issues while the 8ohm load of two SW-12-16FRs do not bottom, would using three SW-12-16GRs, which would be a 4 ohm load, have the bottoming issues with special effects?

Danny Richie

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Since it is the 4 ohm load that the dual SW-12-08FRs presents that causes the bottoming issues while the 8ohm load of two SW-12-16FRs do not bottom, would using three SW-12-16GRs, which would be a 4 ohm load, have the bottoming issues with special effects?

No, because the output is being shared by three woofers.

Captainhemo

That's such a cool way to be able to dial in your sub.  This control combined with phase adjustment is really a smart way to go  :D just curious: where do you set your "extension filter" switch?

I'm using the  28hz and  med setting  on the extension filter but settings will obviousiy  differ from listner to listner and room  to room. 
After doing some measurements with REW, I discovered I had  a large peak  just below 20 hz. by  going to the   28 hz setting on the extension filter,  it took this out  and  still left me flat to  20, even a bit below.
I usually start  at  20/med and go from there... dropping the damping to low will  likely   expand your sound stage ,  going to  high  tightens it right up

jay