[mcgsxr]

I am watching this one with interest.

I am at a place with my own system where I am very close to done.

The only piece I would consider is a tube preamp, same budget, but for me a remote is a certainty.

in my own perusing of 1K tubed preamps on the used market, it seems that the remote requirement really narrows the field.

Cool options so far!

[sturgus]

I see that the Chameleon is a little over your price but well worth it if you can stretch the budget. He also has a kit that is sweet. It's called the Pas-Pro. I don't know if you do vinyl but this one has a nice phonostage. My buddy bought one and I was surprised how good it is. Good luck with the hunt.
Sturgus

[JLM]

Charles, I keep using the term “palpability” to which I means accurate sense of timbre; more transparency, clarity, dynamics, and especially image solidity/space.  I’m happy with the overall sound of my system, so the above enhancements with a refined, neutral, yet powerful presentation would be the goal.  Seems like Bill Baker’s pre-amps are all beyond my budget.

Thanks for all the suggestions, but could you please qualify why they’re good in sonic terms.  I’d really love to learn how different circuits and tubes affect the sound.  And any reviews would be most helpful.  (As not listed in my sources, there is no vinyl in the system.)

At my age I don’t trust doing another DIY (it’s been 35 years since I assembled).

And I’d appreciate cheaper, not more expensive ideas. 

Tube Nirvana “Ella” and Rogue “Metis” look interesting, any reviews or additional personal experience with them?

Musical Design “Chameleon” and Audioprism “Matissa” are beyond the budget and are unknowns to me.  Don Sachs “SP14” is also beyond the budget.  Contact me if you’ll willing to make contributions to my pre-amp fund.


So the most promising pre-amps would be:

Mapletree 2C RM (Mark, shouldn’t this be your choice?)

iFi iTube is a fascinating product and follows my current small component theme (nothing wider than 8.5 inches or deeper than 9 inches).

Quicksilver and Transcendent Grounded Grid also look interesting.

Any feedback on Decware ZSTAGE or Schiit Vahalla/(even the Mjolnir)??


Any thought about my idea of keeping the DC-1 as a pre-amp with remote?  My thinking is similar to the Decware ZSTAGE webpage that promotes the value of having two adjustable gain stages (as some of the suggested pre-amps have).

[rodge827]

Any thought about my idea of keeping the DC-1 as a pre-amp with remote?  My thinking is similar to the Decware ZSTAGE webpage that promotes the value of having two adjustable gain stages (as some of the suggested pre-amps have).

JLM,

Is there something about the DC-1 as dac and preamp you don't like? You have hinted in the thread about letting it go?
If you are using the DC-1 as a preamp then the ZSTAGE would go before it with a lot of gain?
What are you using as a source?

Never mind I just reread your OP 

Using the ZSTAGE after the Chord with the gain increased to the DC-1 looks like a good plan.
Have you used the analog input on the DC-1 to hear how it sounds?

Chris

[kingdeezie]

I had a MapleTree audio linestage 4 many moons ago.

It was the first and biggest "AHAAA!" moment I ever had in audio. Before that time I had been using mass market Pioneer Elite gear. I had upgraded my amps to hifi equipment first, but the preamp plays a larger part in the system quality IME.

I hooked up the MAD linestage/phonostage and played some music, and my jaw dropped. That was the first time I heard anything remotely hifi.

It single handedly started my addiction, there have been big steps with upgrades, but nothing like that first step.

I outgrew it eventually, it does bottleneck as you get better equipment. But for 1K its a good bargain.

[JLM]

Chris,

Don't have any complaints of the DC-1, just have 2nd thoughts about having a $500 for DAC/pre/headphone in a $6,000 system.  I've only had a brief exposure of the analog input (at an audio club meeting) the pre-amp section is supposed to be the best part of the unit.  Yes, the system would look like:

MacBook > Chord > tube pre > DC-1   and   iMac > DC-1


kingdeezle,

Wow you're bursting my bubble with that kind of talk ("I outgrew it eventually, it does bottleneck as you get better equipment").  Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't be aiming higher.   

[rodge827]

Chris,

Don't have any complaints of the DC-1, just have 2nd thoughts about having a $500 for DAC/pre/headphone in a $6,000 system.

JLM,

You can get great performance in digital today for not a lot of $. From what I have read the DC-1 fits right into that category. Heck I've been considering one for some time. Emotiva has had them at $399 for a while now.

Adding and changing gear in a system can be a difficult thing to do. I wish you well in your endeavor.

Chris

[Servingthemusic.com]

I have been reading a lot lately on the Transcendent products.  Their Grid preamp has been out for a while...

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent_Sound_Grounded_Grid_Preamp.html

This unit uses 12AU7 tubes and they can be had on the cheap from multiple sources from Ebay.

I am having the new Masterpiece 300B built for me right now.  A pair of EH 300 tubes comes w/ the unit, but this is an expensive tube option to upgrade. 

I plan on adding a pair of KR Audio tubes and they will hit the wallet for about $1k.

The kit is $999 w/ tubes (I priced sourcing the tubes myself and only found about a $40 discount).

I paid $525 to have the kit built since I am not a DIY guy except for cables.

There is also a forum on the web site where you can ask lots of questions and get good feedback.

My friend you have a number of us waiting for your assessment of this preamp once you receive the build!!

[JackD]

Just a thought, look into the soon to be released Nuprime DAC-9.  Much newer DAC chip than the Emotiva and if anything like the DAC-10 an excellent preamp. The chip used is reported to be smoother. List price is $749. Plus Jason has a 30 day money back policy for his products.

[kingdeezie]

kingdeezle,

Wow you're bursting my bubble with that kind of talk ("I outgrew it eventually, it does bottleneck as you get better equipment").  Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't be aiming higher.   

Certainly not meant to burst your bubble, it is a very decent preamp. However, it is a made to order, point to point wired, tube preamplifier. Unlike Emotiva, MAD is building these things one at a time, and purchasing supplies in small quantities. I am sure Dr. Peppard ( ) is charging what his knowledge, and expertise is worth hourly.

I would also assume he has to outsource the enclosures, and other pieces of the unit. When you factor in, his man hours, the outsourced parts, and the pieces needed to build the unit, its easy to see how concessions have to be made to fit into the budget.

IME with the unit, it served me extremely well in a system fitted with similar level equipment. In this way, its a good bargain, and a quality
piece. As you start upgrading however, it quickly becomes a weak link.

Of course, I've read that people have modded the units with better parts to make it sound much better. That might be an option if you don't mind modding. But now you are talking about the price of the preamp, plus new parts (could be a crap shoot).

I don't think aiming higher is a bad idea however, especially on the used market. Bill Baker has some Musica Bella preamps there for 1400 or so. Atmasphere has the new UV preamp for 1900 new, which has gotten some good reviews.

[Thirsty]

Contact Dennis Had and see what he could build you within your price range.

[mcgsxr]

Yes JLM, the Mapletree should fit the bill for me.  And it does, other than $.

Currently the piece of his that I like runs about $1200USD.  Converting that into local $ and adding our tax would mean that lists out at $1800 Canadian.  That quickly turns into a very different exercise if comparing $1800 preamps, and swamps my firm budget.

Great review here, and given the ancillary gear matching my own, I expect it is a great unit - http://www.wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/mapletree-audio-line-2b-se-preamplifier-with-rm1-remote-using-bent-audio-motorized-alps-potentiometer/

The positive comparison in that review to a 5K ARC unit via Magnepan speakers has me wondering what I can sell to make up the $!

[JLM]

More good points, thanks!

So what's the sonic differences between 12AU7 and 6Nxx tubes?  Seems like the 12's are cheapened versions of the 6N.  Is there a concise comparison of all tubes/circuits online?

Again, no love/knowledge here for Decware or Schiit?

Keep in mind all I need is maybe 2 line source inputs (a 2nd output would be nice for future subwoofer flexibility).  I really need to listen to the Chord Qute EX (that I found for a good deal) before buying a pre-amp, but wanted to get some direction/education to prepare.


Mark, perhaps your likes need to come down to your budget, but sorry to read of your taxes.  In the Finland of 1974 all consumer electronics, cameras, and cars had a 100% luxury tax.   

Thirsty, asking Dennis to build a custom pre-amp would compound dingdeezie's concerns relating to of the cost challenge.  (I did commission my speakers because they frankly didn't quite exist prior and am very happy with them, but still need to learn a lot more about tubes before trying that here.)

kingdeezie, as a young retiree I listen more, but could really use a hearing upgrade so have no serious intention of upgrading my speakers/mono-blocks.  Any replacements will probably represent a scaling down.

JackD, I seriously considered the DAC-10 earlier this year, but with a CD library questioned the practicality of hi-res and answered the call to save money.  (The Chord DAC's are supposed to really excel at Redbook.)  So at this point a NuPrime solution seems like a step backwards.

rodge827, went with the DC-1 that reported was sonically on par with all those $1200 - 2,000 DAC/pre/headphone amps and tried to avoid the depreciation in this quickly evolving arena.

[DaveC113]

Unless you're going to spend more cash I'd go with something simple that can be easily resold like an ifi buffer. A tube preamp that doesn't degrade sound quality is tough to pull of without it costing a good bit more, imo...

[JLM]

Unless you're going to spend more cash I'd go with something simple that can be easily resold like an ifi buffer. A tube preamp that doesn't degrade sound quality is tough to pull of without it costing a good bit more, imo...

So Dave, what is the cheapest tube pre-amp you'd recommend for me that wouldn't degrade SQ (and why)?

[DaveC113]

So Dave, what is the cheapest tube pre-amp you'd recommend for me that wouldn't degrade SQ (and why)?

I'm not familiar enough with commercial offerings to make any recs... I just know what the cost of parts are and I don't think it's possible to build a $1k retail tube preamp that won't sound worse than a good passive like Tortuga's LDR based pre.

Now that I think of it, using a Tortuga LDR pre + ifi tube buffer might not be a bad idea.... if you don't like the buffer you can resell it with minimal loss, upgrade it or do without entirely. And the Tortuga has a remote

[paul79]

I do agree with Dave, a good tube preamp that does no wrong will cost a bit more than $1K, but there is one in particular, that really does sound very world class, for little more than twice that price. The NOS Valves NBS. You can get it in linestage, full featured, and an additional cathode follower stage is available for difficult to drive solid state amps or sub amps.

It is Class A single ended, no feedback, no phase inverting. Uses a single 6H30 Supertube or 6DJ8 for the linestage. That is it, and it absolutely works. Its beauty lies in its simplicity.

I use this preamp myself, and it is STUNNING! Mine has Jupiter Copper coupling caps as upgrade, so that would cost you a bit more, but not much.

I very highly recommend this one.

[paul79]

Wardsweb made his own version of the preamp I am speaking of: 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134416.0

[Rusty Jefferson]

Charles, I keep using the term “palpability” to which I means accurate sense of timbre; more transparency, clarity, dynamics, and especially image solidity/space.  I’m happy with the overall sound of my system, so the above enhancements with a refined, neutral, yet powerful presentation would be the goal......

Greetings,

I think it's great you know what you're looking for with increased performance, but I don't think you'll find it with the $500-$1500 headphone amp/DACs/preamps.  I heard several recently in a system capable of showing what you've described you're looking for, and none had it. They all sounded "good", but none showed the refinement you're after.  It wasn't until we tried an Aqua La Scala, and a PS Audio Directstream that those qualities came forth.  Of the small DAC/preamps, the best performer was the ifi Micro-iDSD.  It uses Burr Brown chips, and I believe all the others we tested used Sabre. When combined with an Omega Mikro digital cable (S/PDIF) the performance was head and shoulders above the others, and probably 80% of the expensive DACs. It didn't create that "palpability" you described (and we're all looking for) but it did have better depth, air, and musicality than the others.  If you had to do it under $1k, this would be a good way. Performance via USB wasn't as good as the OM cable, however.  Not tubes either, but great performance. http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/

If having 1-2 inputs is all you need, and there was room to stretch the budget, a Directstream, or Lampizator L4 with volume (used, obviously. Probably $2.5-$3.5k) would be the direction to go imo. The higher quality DAC performance shows in just the things you've mentioned you're looking for. I don't think you'll gain anything with a separate tube pre/buffer and your current DAC.

[G Georgopoulos]

JLM

you have made the right decision (as always),going for tube preamp is the best way to acheive tube warmth,keeping your ss pwramp and your speakers is wise as well,i cant recommend but i would like to offer an advise if i may,go for plate preamp o/p not tube buffer preamp,you'll have more tube palpability.
... all the best and good luck in your search...