[Bill Baker]

since it looks as though noone was willing to help him out.

 Hi Josh, actually, I sent him a PM offering the same. If anything, it would be a fun project regardless of the outcome.

[James Romeyn]

I never said I knew the orig xo in that design.  I was just offering help if he had a problem with his xo, since it looks as though noone was willing to help him out.

I didn't think you did.  The fact is there is no help.  B ain't got the schematic &/or pictorial, & no one who knows it is giong to draw it out for free for a speaker that in pristine OEM FACTORY condition is worth a few hundred.  Because you don't know the wiring, there is nothing you can do for levelhd.  Except to give him suggestions on what you think is a good idea to make it a josh speaker.  I have no problem with that.

This is what I've been posting the whole time.  He got free speakers, completely unkown quantities except they are VMPS cabinets with what I'd what I'd bet are VMPS drivers, & absolutely nothing more or less.  They may or may not be ST/R specs inside.  I'd bet money right now they aren't, & if I was closer to levelhd, I'd write out the diagram, get b to check it off (even I'd need help with the switch, which was a mess), & go there to prove that at least one item is miswired to collect my bet.  LOOK: Brian & I miswired them regularly & had to redo small parts of the things!  Yes, we caught it, but it happened.  IMO, the average kit guy would not likely have the patience, stamina & ability to catch it.  They might, but might not.  I had conversations with these guys & talked with them about the work involved.  I felt their pain.  One major problem is it takes so long, yet the builder has this intense desire to stuff the drivers in there & listen to music.  The anticipation runs directly counter to th erequired patience.  

This is what I meant by getting ahead of himself & being naive.  Exactly what I just posted in the above paragraph.  I apologize if I did not make it clear earlier.  Because my news was not fun & exciting (no free lunch) readers thought I was trying to ruin his party.  I wasn't, but rather was just telling him the truth.  There is a sum total of one forum member who knows the exact wiring inside that thing: B.  Asking him to supply the diagram is unrealistic (production stopped almost two decades ago (it's a small company that had no computer databanks for this stuff).  I know everything minus the switch, & B would have to help with that.  What I'd charge for the work mr levelhd would never ever consider paying, especially considering his investment (0).

So we're right back where everyone started: all he can do is listen to them & have fun, & when he gets sick of them list them here & someone can give him $75 for the pair.

In other words, if his post originally said: hey I got free kit speakers, nothing invested, am going to run them into the ground & have fun till I must park them on the side of the road, I would have said only: Party hearty, enjoy, what a great deal, have fun...But c'mon?  Asking for specs?  They don't even work right, impossible to confirm what's inside, quoting $2000 in reveiws, wondering what he's going to sell them for?  That's nutz.  But it's only my opinion, & that's all I've said all along.  Read back.

[levlhed]

OK Jim, yes..I get it.  Your opinion states something to the effect that these speakers are pieces of shit, best suited as cat boxes, and I'm a fool for thinking otherwise.
If you've got nothing else to add that can help me in my misguided adventure, please move along now.

[James Romeyn]

OK Jim, yes..I get it.  Your opinion states something to the effect that these speakers are pieces of shit, best suited as cat boxes, and I'm a fool for thinking otherwise.
If you've got nothing else to add that can help me in my misguided adventure, please move along now.

Your paraphrase skills match your free speaker expectations.  Actually, considering the glass stuffing, which must be removed for your cats (unless you intend to kill them), there are better cat boxes.  But they might cost you some M-O-N-E-Y.  

PETA will be alerted.

[John Casler]

OK guys,

While I can't for the life of me figure out what is going on here, I feel it has reached a point to back down.

No need for final words.

If you guys wish to continue discussing Vintage VMPS, fine, I think that is a GREAT Subject, but I will lock the thread (or send a portion to the FIGHT CLUB, if there is any more sniping.

Thanks for understanding.

[James Romeyn]

John, I agree, no hard feelings, I'm sorry levelhd for being what may have been perceived as "harsh".

Let's take one last joyful look from a fresh perspective, no sarcasm, no kidding, for real: Those speakers, based on the drivers, can be no newer than '82, '83 tops.  

At $1300 pr delivered new for kits (maybe less at that time), divided by 23 years, that's $57/per year depreciation if they are fully depreciated (my position).  $57 divided by 365 days per year is 15.4 cents per day.  That is really very good considering 23 years of enjoyment, don'tcha all think?

[Rory B.]

I never had an appreciation for the sheer size of these speakers until just now, seeing that little girl standing next to one! I would just re-foam all the surrounds anyway, given the age of these speakers. Send the woofers to a hi-fi repair shop to have them re-foamed if you're not confident doing it yourself. Also re-foam the passive radiators in each. Foam that's that old, if it's not already gone, is going. My uncle's Boston A150s that sit in his basement did not appear to have deteriorating surrounds, but when I touched one of them, it seemed to fall apart in my hands.

[James Romeyn]

This is my position, based on working at the place those were manufactured.  If the wiring inside those speakers is not confirmed to be exactly per the manufacturer's specs, it was simply a mistake to spend the time & fuel to pick them up.  An exception is if some listener with a good idea of the original factory assembled sound could just listen to them & confirm they were good.  

Another problem is the apparent belief by members that new surrounds brings 25 year old woofers back to OEM condition.  The gauze spider supports & suspends the woofer cones & mids on the back side of the center under the dust cap.  That gauze is about a quarter century old.  What did you look like 25 years ago compared to today?  Think about a piece of hard gauze.  It had particular qualities 25 years ago that it does not have now.  It will not support the cone like it did then.  It is also most probably highly unsymmetrical in its elastic qualities because it's been sitting so long with the cone's weight on one side (possibly turning the cones 180 degrees may help).  It may be rotted out.  IMO those drivers are all toast, even with new surrounds.  I'm less certain regarding this than the wiring, but common sense & my understanding of their construction tells me the woofer's stroke & compliance is totally off OEM specs.    

If they were confirmed to be factory assembled (they are said to be kits & I believe the visual cues are consistent with that claim), it might make sense to simply remove the entire crossover assembly as one piece, & go over any & all solder connections that look oxidized.  There are probably about 70 terminations per speaker.  

There is no practical way to confirm & compare the differences between Mr. Cheney's intent vs. the alleged kit builder's skills or lack thereof & the ravages of a quarter century.  Any even minor solder irregularity, even from the factory, would cause audible problems after 25 years.  

I am not trying to be harsh, I am doing what we all do here, sharing an opinion.  I'm entitiled to my opinion just as everyone else is entitled to there's included the owner levelhd.  Again, I apologize if this comes as a harsh surprise to anyone, including the new owner.

So if the internal state can not be confirmed, it simply makes no sense, IMO, to spend any money on trying to make them sound like the OEM intended, because the chances of that happening are so minimal based on the unknown history.  With about 150+ terminations (you would not believe how many tiny parts were dropped into the xo bag), at 98% perfect assembly scoring (unbelievably optimistic) you have 3 internal errors.  

If you talked to the guy who assembled them & were thoroughly convinced this guy knew exactly what he was doing, my position might be different.  

Here's the only other exception that comes to mind.  If the internal wiring can not be confirmed, here's one other use.  They could make huge woofer enclosures.  I'd consider extra bracing, maybe SoundCoat, maybe adding large internal layers of wood, & maybe Black Whole or some other damping.  I also like lining the internal panels with thick dark brown cork 12" tiles.  Then plug all mid/tweeter holes.  

Get new woofers & passive radiators.  VMPS will sell them at a good price toward the goal of recycling those cabinets.  You will have to experiment with the passive radiator damping.  But I gaurantee enclosures that large will move a 20 Hz waveform with low distortion like you won't believe till you hear it.  (Don't say you weren't warned that you may be exciting room modes you didn't know existed in that room.)  Be prepared to invest in some EQ to help tame the modes.  Be prepared for visits from nearby neighbors.  My next door neighbor had a painting fall off our connecting wall.

[flintstone]

I used mine as subs for around a year...They worked great upside down and in the corners in my large room.

If you click my system link there are still some old pic's.

Dave

[levlhed]

If the xo in those cabinets is OEM, & if levelhd can copy it by looking at it, I'll bet on the Steelers to win the superbowl....

[levlhed]

I still have these in the same condition.  Haven't done any work on them yet, but I'm finally back to at least thinking about the project.
Finally building out a basement theater room and need to start looking at determining what components to go with.

Part of me wants to revive these and just go with a 2-channel setup, but I'm trying to weigh out the pros/cons.

Cheers!

[davidc]

Not to resurrect from the dead, but...

I have these speakers. Originally bought them as a kit around 1981.

I am sure, yes sure, they are wired correctly. I am sure because I'm anal about that type of stuff, and also because I've checked them about 5-6 times. I've checked them that much because at various times I replaced the woofers and tweeters and crossover components.

I might be persuaded to make a video of the internal components. From viewing that in slow mo, you could probably determine all the connections.