AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Lab => Topic started by: Jon L on 3 May 2008, 05:32 am

Title: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 May 2008, 05:32 am
Well, I suppose it's time for the capacitor thread.  I set out to satisfy my curiosity regarding various caps with first-hand experience, and as such, these impressions are not meant to be the Bible or written in stone.  Personal tastes, system synergy, and cycle of the Moon all apply. 

What you see is my DIY capacitor burn-in setup w/ resistor and *some* of my caps.

(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5599/img5464gq9hl0.jpg)

In the pic, we have VH Audio teflons (black), Auricaps (yellow), VSE oil caps(silver), ClarityCap SA (red), Almarro polyester (grey), Jupiter beewax caps (orange), Multicap PPMFX (white), Multicap RTX polystyrene (white), Vitamin Q oil caps (small silver tube), NOS TRW polystyrene caps (small silver), Multicap PPFX (not pictured), Hovlands (not pictured), and some large PS caps. 

Mostly I am comparing these in coupling capacitor duty in a couple of amps, Almarro A205a MkII and Bottlehead Paramour I with C4S upgrade.  Both amps are used to drive my headphones and speakers, mainly Headphile modded Sennheiser HE60 electrostats (via SRD7 MkII), AKG K1000, HE Audio EH1.2B electrostat headphones, and my custom speakers (Aurum Cantus G3 ribbon tweeter, Focal 7K2 midrange, actively-biamped).

(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7751/speakersab7.jpg)

Almarro A205a MkII with Stax SRD7 MkII transformer and Headphile-modded Sennheiser HE60 "Baby Orpheus" electrostat headphones.

(http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/6660/img2309qm5.jpg)

Paramour 2A3 SET with C4S

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2448/img5454yw6.jpg)

And the HE Audio EH1.2b electrostat headphones.

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7426/img5689py1.jpg)

If you have cap experience to share, feel free to post them here. 

To start off with some comments.  Don't believe everything you read in those "capacitor reviews" you see in mags, and capacitors, no matter how expensive and praised, will not "transform" turds into swan, not even the VCap teflons b/c caps will not *improve* anything.  All they can do is minimize the self-harm done by them :)

*EDIT*  Some actual listening impressions added.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

V Cap Teflon

(http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/7992/crw87411159ec9f1dt2.jpg)

These are worth the price, but if you read some people's descriptions, you would think the angels from heaven would descend and give you an eargasm.  Not so.  These will not transform your system or turn water into wine.  They do have the least identifiable character and have the best control of various sound ranges.  There is absolutely no overshoot or ringing when trumpets hit or when soprano kicks into high gear.  Not lumpy, bloaty, overly-bloomy in any of the frequency ranges, and they do seem to let most of the details and information through unharmed and well-separated. 

If I had to compare them in headphone terms, it would be like AKG K701 in general gestalt but with improved transparency and dead-neutral bass quantity/quality. 

I *do* however detect a bit of what I call "teflon sound."  It's very hard to actually describe, but those very familiar with how teflon-dielectric interconnects and other teflon caps like Relcap TFT sound will have an idea.  Textures of notes are just a wee bit more "polished" and refined than live instruments, a bit more more "slippery" than should IMO.  This is very subtle and a minor quibble, really, and if I had to use many caps in a cost-no-object component that has to have great transparency, VCap teflons would be my choice.

*Further thoughts added"

These really are great caps, and the defining feature that keeps popping in my brain is "transparency."  The more caps I compare, the less descriptive adjectives are necessary for the VCaps while most other caps need various adjectives to describe their character.  I sometimes wish these had more of that indescribable "magic" of the high-end Mundorfs, but this really comes down to personal preferences.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jupiter Beewax Cap

(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/583/image03015a098c6ie9.jpg)

The feel and appearance of this thing just does not inspire confidence.  It feels like a piece of candle wrapped in paper, and these are known to have problems in warmer temperature environments.  Do NOT install them near hot resistors, tubes, etc. 

Sound-wise, I was expecting a mess of muddy blob based on appearance, but the sound is surprisingly transparent and clear, not as much as VCap teflons, but very good in absolute terms.  There is *just* a bit more richness, tone, and girth to notes and voices, which are probably colorations, but Jupiter cap doesn't come across as overdone.  What they trade away in absolute resolution, speed compared to VCaps, they battle back with more pleasing density, tone, and that indescribable musicality.  Less separation of notes and a bit less anvil-taught in bass compared to VCaps, but there is plenty of treble and bass quantity.

I like them!  I probably wouldn't use too many in a component, but a couple of them in a otherwise-squeeky-clean component can do wonders for just musical enjoyment. 

I would say these are most akin to something like Grado RS-1, except with a bit more treble extension and less peakiness in the lower-treble/upper-mids...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Siemens MKV polyproylene/metalissed aluminium/in oil

*edit* Origin of these caps discovered

(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9003/img5693oo2.jpg)

I bought these from VSE (Vacuum State Audio) when they were still selling them.  They were said to be some secret industrial caps they found to sound better than others.

When I first installed them after burning them in for days, I *really* hated them.  The highs seemed severely shut-in, bass bloated, and midrange seemed veiled and thick.  But after playing the amp with music for some days, these effects seemed to diminish day by day, and eventually I found the balance to be quite pleasing.  Further burn-in has happened, but I'm sure people's ears/brain need some time to adjust to PIO signature. 

Once fully operational, these had incredible warmth, tonality combined with breath-of-life type of sparkle to midrange/vocals.  These are not high-treble sparkles, but each syllable of vocals seemed more lit, dramatic, and enjoyable.  Treble was never obviously "airy" or minutely detailed, but once settled in, the highs seemed to align and balance with mids.  Same thing with bass.  There's more bass than perhaps neutral, and there is some slowness to bass, but it's still pretty firm and hard-hitting with that roundness of tone. 

Ultimately, I prefer the better non-oil caps for a bit more neutrality, but these have got me curious about Audionote silver-in-oils or Mundorf silver-in-oils.  I will never pay the ridiculous price for AN, but I *may* try the Mundorf silver-in-oils at some point. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Auricaps

(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3401/image00815a1d58ctk5.jpg)

These are good.  Too bad the prices took a bad hike for the end user over the years.  They have nice detail, speed, musicality, and their sound gives an extra bloom to the sound, which will make them fit well into somewhat cooler-sounding components, especially SS.  Not as resolving as Teflons and not as rich/dense as Oilers or Jupiters but a good Jack-of-all...

These worked surprisingly well for me when used as "bypass cap" for a larger (and cheaper) cap, imparting some of the nice detail and bloom to the combo.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claritycap SA

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6991/sa0022uf15a3d38ekn4.jpg)

One of the reviews available tout this cap highly, and it *is* a good cap at the very low prices they command.  It wouldn't hurt to try some as E-speakers.com ships them free within U.S.

I found it kind of bland, kind of nondescript, and not great at any one thing.  But there's also no glaring flaws or aberrances that can be distracting, either. 

My main issue was the lack of resolution in the midrange.  I couldn't hear and feel the sumptuous detail and texture that I know to be in the recordings.  Some people say these still are a big jump up from Solens, and I would agree if you're talking about less grain and "strain" in the upper-midrange. 

However, I can bypass the cheap Solen with a small nice cap like Auricap or Polystyrenes, which gets rid of a lot of the glare/strain while offering better detail resolution than unbypassed Claritycap SA.  When I tried bypassing the Clairtycap, I did *not* get much better resolution, and I still preferred Solen+bypass.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________ ________
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 May 2008, 05:34 am
Mundorf Silver-In-Oil

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/363/mcapsilveroil257614sl5.jpg)

I really did not know what to expect from these.  Some people's reports mention things like "liquidity" and "smoothness," which led me to believe these would share a rather pleasant but not kick-you-in-the-groin resolution or power.  Boy, was I wrong. 

If push comes to shove, words like liquid and smooth *are* applicable, but there is so much more.  The calling card of Mundorf SIO seems to be infinite shades of resolution riding on the oh-so-smooth sonic flow.  There is enough detail for even detail freaks like me, and those who value life-like dynamic range and punch would love these as well. 

Compared to other metallized poly caps, Mundorf SIO seems to be at least 2-3dB louder(!) at the same volume setting with punch that slams harder and truer. 

This cap makes me very curious about the top-of-the-line Mundorf Gold/silver cap, which I happen to have sitting in front of me :)

*More thoughs*

I must say these are probably the caps that most keeps me *wanting* to listen to music instead of rolling more caps.  Musical enjoyment is obtained without short-changing detail or speed; what more can you ask for?  The silver/oil is now 3rd in the Mundorf price scheme, and for many, that's all one needs/wants to spend on a cap. 

_______________________________________ ________

*Edit* Mundorf Silver/Gold added

Mundorf Silver/Gold Capacitor

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4747/msg123e958a4zo1.jpg)

Mostly I have been comparing the Mundorf Silver/Gold with VCap Teflons, and this has been a tough one to get a handle on. 

This may be a good time to concede that above a certain level, various great capacitors are not particularly "better," but rather akin to looking at the same object under subtly different lighting conditions and vantage points.  VCap Teflons and Mundorf Silver/Gold share many sound qaulities, especially jet-black, noise-free background from which subtlest details seem to naturally emerge.  Presentation of both are so natural and non-attention-seeking that both may come across as bland or boring when compared to certain capacitors with stronger personalities. 

Long-term living with the caps, however, confirms the greatness of both caps b/c music remains inviting, refined, and eminently enjoyable, as opposed to fatiguing, wearing thin, and distracting. 

Since audiophiles tend to obsess over the last 5-10% of differences, I will mention that Silver/Gold has a bit richer presentation from top-to-bottom with a bit creamier textures and a bit closer imaging.  As one can imagine from this description, Silver/Gold doesn't *quite* seem to be as Nth-degree clean as VCaps but renders more proportion of recordings more tasty. 

I do not believe detail resolution is any less than VCaps, but a tiny bit more harmonic "bloom" over the notes makes music both sexier and less pellucid at the same time.  Some people will absolutely love this quality and call Silver/Gold much "better" than VCaps while others will absolutely declare VCaps to be the better cap for the same reasons.  To throw more wrench into the equation, the optimal tube set for one cap is NOT the best set for the other cap and vice versa.  Such is life.

I am also unable to directly compare Mundorf Silver/Gold to Mundorf Silver/Oil at this time due to my system configuration, but my preliminary sense is that the two are not all that different sounding, though the small amount of gold compound mixed with silver does seem to add just a wee bit extra harmonic richness and warmth.  To be continued.

*Edit* 

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil thoughts added to Post #3.

*More thoughts"

After listening more to the "neutral" camp of caps like Mundorf Zn and Relcap RTX, the calling card of Mundorf silver/gold has to be the come-hither midrange that is colorful without being colored, full of rich textures, and just bristling with life and vividness.  I may respect some other caps more, but I love the Mundorf silver/gold like family.

---------------------------------------------
*Edit* Mundorf Zn added

Mundorf Zn Capacitor

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1185/img5691er8.jpg)

After a long love affair with Mundorf Silver/Oil, circumstances forced my hand to try the Mundorf Zn Tin Foil capacitor. 

Some well-respected modders recommend the Mundorf Zn as one of the "most neutral" cap out there, regardless of cost, including Allen Wright of VSE (Vacuum State Electronics) fame. 

Considering the Mundorf Zn costs less than 1/6th of their top-of-range silver/gold & oil, I was hoping this cap would turn out to be the giant-killer that saves our day and pocketbooks. 

The good news.  This cap has incredible "low-loss" sound.  One gets the impression every little detail comes through and that musical speed does not get impeded.  Bass is taught, punchy, and treble extension soars; midrange seems linear. Its sound signature is what many audiophiles would think of when words like "neutral, detailed, honest, etc" are used, and they would be right, uh..sort of. 

The bad news.  Compared to an exquisite cap like Mundorf silver/oil, what is not coming through as well is the harmonic beauty of the music, the "soul" if you will: overtones upon overtones gently bubbling to the surface as the singer sings the words and the trumpet makes those aching notes. 

In addition, each instrument/voice does not seem as developed 3-D wise.  Through Zn, they seem more 2-dimensional and "flat."  Combined with its more dry (less bloomy) presentation, there is less involvement.

So I have mixed feelings about Mundorf Zn.  Its sound is technically superior and "uncolored," an order of magnitude better than pretty much any other "cheap" cap you can buy.  If I were designing/building a transparent preamp, I can see using the Zn in many places, judiciously mixing them with tube magic elsewhere to come out with supreme results.  If you have a preamp/amp that's more dry and matter-of-fact to begin with, I would advise against the Zn. 

Actually, I think the Zn may lend itself incredibly well as bypass caps in speaker crossovers due to its qualities.  I'll get to that eventually.

*More luminations"

Upon reading back my own words, I realized they were too harsh for these wonderful caps.  After your ears get used to their Teutonic charm, everything sounds just-so and perfectly musical, not wanting for anything obvious.  Still highly recommended, and the price is a bonus. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Edit*

Sonicap Platinum Teflon Capacitor

(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1663/platbw46572954ccq8.jpg)

In order to prepare for the Sonicap Platinum, I actually reinstalled the VCap Teflon in place of Mundorf Zn in order to get used to the VCap again for awhile before popping in the Sonicap, which was running on the Cap break-in apparatus at the same time. 

In short, the Sonic Craft website's description of its sound is pretty accurate:
"It is very fast, but full and rich.  The presentation is ultra smooth without loss of detail, focus, or dynamics."

In direct comparison to VCap Teflons, SP (Sonicap Platinum) *was* a bit richer and a smidge creamier.  We're talking about somewhat subtle differences, but SP was definitely a bit denser, darker, therefore subjectively a wee bit smoother through the midranges.  Some will almost recognize a bit of this as found in a good paper-in-oil cap, minus the treble rolloff or bass slowness, of course. 

The VCap still does come across as a teeny bit more transparent and lit-up, and what's somewhat special about the VCap is the fact it sounds *consistently* transparent/lit-up throughout its ranges, especially in the critical upper-midrange to low-treble transition; there's no peaks or bumps here even though the whole range is better lit-up. 

With SP, even though everything else seems a bit smoother and richer, there seems to my ears a very narrow band, somewhere at the highest end of female vocal sibilance to top-hats, that appears to have the tiniest bit more "sparkle" than the rest of the range.  I only mention it b/c it is a difference.

Overall, SP is a nice alternative to the VCap teflons and costs less.  Just like anything in audio, some systems will synergize better with one or the other.  For those who have listened and think VCap is a bit too literal or "sterile" (I don't personally) in their systems, Sonicap Platinum is a viable choice.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 May 2008, 05:34 am
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relcap RTX

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4001/rtx7041f25ebh7.jpg)

This tin foil/polystyrene cap has been around a long time, and many designers and modders swear by their use as bypass caps.  Some more recent cap comparisons also confirm they are very good coupling caps by themselves. 

The RTX had some big shoes to fill, replacing Sonicap Platinums, and I must say they did pretty well against the heavy hitters. 

*Warning* Even after a long break-in, these caps sounded horrid for some hours after being soldered in, sounding grainy on top and anemic in the bass.  Do not evaluate them without a long workout after solder dries.

After dust settled, these turned out to be very balanced top-to-bottom with no gross errors or peaks.  Extension of frequency extremes was impressive, and the level of resolution was high without highlighting upper-midrange or upper-bass.

Compared to Sonicap Platinums, RTX didn't sound as dense and rich in the midrange, but it still managed to sound subjectively neutral, akin to some of those high-class red wines that's on the dry side as opposed to fruity and colorful.  At a bit over half the price of Sonicap Platinums, these are a nice bargain in the cap world, but I wouldn't use too many in equipment that tends toward dryness in the midrange.

What really put the RTX in perspective was when I switched in Mundorf silver/gold again.  Suddenly, I had beautifully colorful (but not colored) midrange that "popped" with effortless midrange dynamics.  Musical textures just pulled your ears in, and that often-yearned-for "magic" was in the air.  Mundorf silver/gold is almost three times the price of RTX, unfortunately, so save your pennies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Edit*  Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4747/msg123e958a4zo1.jpg)

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/363/mcapsilveroil257614sl5.jpg)

I finally did some proper comparisons between these 2 capacitors, and while they do share the musical Mundorf house sound, their differences are significant enough that one should not automatically think a system synergistic with one will be synergistic with the other.

There are some who have concluded silver/gold is "not as good" as silver/oil, but I would not agree with that conclusion.  However, they have sufficiently differing presentations and gestalt that yes, one "may" definitely prefer silver/oil in a given setup/preferences. 

One word I would use to describe the main difference is "liquidity."  While both are remarkably smooth, silver/oil has more liquidity, not enough to obscure detail but just enough to "massage" recordings that are not perfect. As a result, I am able to enjoy more percentage of my recordings through silver/oil, which liquifies a few percent of the upper-midrange/low-treble spittiness and hardness inherent in many recordings.  Because silver/oil makes this range less noticeable, the high treble/air becomes relatively more noticeable, but upon closer analysis, the silver/gold has just as much upper end extension and air. 

So once again, I still think silver/oil is the cap that most likely will have me keep listening to my (non-perfect) music collection instead of tweaking, but if your system is already leaning towards liquidity, silver/gold may be a better choice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian FT3 Teflon Capacitor

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4442/img5815rj1.jpg)

I must first thank an Audio Circle member Gary (“GBB”) for loaning me the FT3 and K72 caps.  Otherwise, I would have had to buy on eBay and wait a month for delivery.  The FT3 is a great cap sonically, but its sheer size and weight can present a challenge in cramped spaces.  Its lack of traditional leadouts also forces one to make his own; I had to solder some leftover leads as seen in the photo above. 

This cap is exceedingly smooth, smooth, yet resolved like only teflon caps are.  This evenness and lack of glare, grain, or bite can be disadvantageous for FT3, especially in quick cap-rolling A-B comparisons, where a cap with a more insistent personality will attract more attention and spotlight.  However, after living with this cap for a long time, one has to marvel at its consistently musically-revealing nature and tonality.  It doesn’t wear its detail resolution on its sleeve, yet when one chooses to listen for it, the extension in both directions are impressive as well as actual detail.  Its trick is having equal resolution from top-to-bottom, so the whole is well, wholesome.  It conveys music in a flowing, suave tonality and is the crooner of the cap crowd. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian K72 Teflon Capacitor

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4706/img5816mk4.jpg)

Probably the most hyped AND maligned cap out there.  Some praise it while others despise it and write it off completely.  It is my understanding that FT3 and K72 caps are internally the same.  Here is an internal picture of K72, courtesy of the internet.

(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6023/teflons46bf7f55yf7.jpg)

FT3 uses aluminum casing and thin tabs as leadouts while K72 uses thicker steel casing with solid poles as leadouts.  FT3 is glass-encapsulated while K72 is hermetically sealed, and due to the thick steel case, K72 is even heavier than FT3. 

One huge caveat to comparing K72 and FT3 is that the largest value of K72 available seems to be 0.056uF, while FT3 is predominantly available in 0.1 and 0.22uF.  My loaned K72 was the customary 0.056uF and FT3 0.22uF, and yes, the larger cap is “supposed” to be more bassy.  Lo and behold, FT3 does seem to be a little richer in the bass region; however, it was not a huge difference, and there is no way to tell how much of this is due to the uF difference or just the way these caps sound.  This cannot be answered today b/c K72 does not come in 0.1 or 0.22uF and FT3 does not come in 0.056uF. 

These caps do sound similar, but after doing A-B-A-B comparisons using music with and without bass, I can say they do have differences.  K72 adds a pinch of spice and “kick” to the proceedings.  Middle midrange to somewhere in upper midrange seems to sound bit more obviously “detailed” with K72; this leads to a little more tension in the listener’s shoulders when playing poorly-recorded material, i.e. the vast majority of today’s compressed and hotly EQ’d modern fare.  Some may even call it extra grain, glaze, or hardness compared to FT3’s relative softer rendering.  However, with clean recordings, I can see some people even preferring K72 for its more assertive, forward stance.  Combining that little highlighting with a bit tighter control, K72 comes across as hair more dynamic and fun.  Which Teflon cap should you purchase?  Well, both are cheap enough that I think you should try both, but do consider if you wish for a little more smoothness vs. forwardness from current setup.

P.S.  When you tap the stiff steel case of K72, you can hear and feel a hollow “ping” resonance.  I tried applying a strip of EAR Isodamp material, covering about 1/3 of the surface area, which attenuated the sparkle and “detail” just a tad.  I’m not saying one is better than the other, but depending on your tastes, a bit of damping may have a role.   
-------------------------------------------------------------
Are You a Contender?

So, are these Russian teflon caps as “good” as the V Caps, Sonicap Teflons?  Well, I know some say no, but I don’t know how to answer that. 

In direct comparisons, VCap teflon does come across as having the highest highs and the most linear response across the range.  It paints the sonic scape with the finer brush, and its sonic signature reminds me of my beloved Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plate tubes for you tube people.  On the other hand, the FT3 and especially K72 have a more forward, bolder midrange presentation, albeit with a bit less refinement and a bit bolder lower midrange/upper bass range.  I enjoy listening to deep male vocals a bit more through the Russian caps while VCaps absolutely rule with high-pitched female vocals and instruments that live in the same range and above, resolving them with the finest of the surgical scalpel yet without any harshness. 

I really don’t feel all these caps should be given concrete rankings, like number 1, 2, 3, etc.  Let’s just say music can sound glorious with most good caps mentioned in this article, often coming down to tweaking tubes, interconnects, power cords, etc.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ctviggen on 3 May 2008, 10:28 am
Very impressive write up.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ecramer on 3 May 2008, 11:51 am
Very interesting write up thanks for the info and the work  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Gordy on 3 May 2008, 12:41 pm
Thank you Jon!  I can definitely relate to the amount of work you've put into this and your review was extremely well thought out and written.  I also am very grateful that I only have one .1uF cap in my preamp that merits being replaced by the Mundorf silver/gold's  :D  that is, if the Cinemag transformers pan out in the output location!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 3 May 2008, 12:45 pm
thx Jon

Much appreciated

i wish this thread to be a "sticky"
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: richidoo on 3 May 2008, 12:56 pm
That was one of the funnest reads on AC in a while. Thank you very much Jon!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: srayle on 3 May 2008, 01:32 pm
Jon,

I nominate you for AudioCircle member of the month!
Great write-up, VERY helpful!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Wayne1 on 3 May 2008, 01:50 pm
Very nice write up, Jon.

I agree with your rankings but interpret the sonics a bit differently.

I use the caps with very low voltage across them. To me, The V-Caps are more musical while the Sonicap Platinums are a touch more sterile.

Horses for courses  :wink:

Thanks for all the hard work.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: TONEPUB on 3 May 2008, 04:35 pm
Just curious, how long did you play said capacitors before you evaluated the sonics?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Double Ugly on 3 May 2008, 04:39 pm
As the others said, great write-up, Jon.  I've listened to nowhere near the caps you've compared, but my impression of the few I've heard matches yours.

FWIW, I'm breaking-in what I believe are some pretty good caps in my ModWright Transporter.  While it's difficult to differentiate the effect of the caps vs. that of the tubes, I believe Dan has designed a winner. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Don_S on 3 May 2008, 04:57 pm
Jon,  Did you try any V-Cap Oil Impregnated Metalized Polypropylene? 
http://www.v-cap.com/oilcapacitors.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 3 May 2008, 05:16 pm
My question exactly. I've become fond of the type I and type II Sonicaps in my speakers, but found the Platinums, V-Cap Teflon & Oils and those inexpensive Russian teflons recently for bypass and coupling cap use and love what I hear. It would be great to see you compare the Russians and V-Cap T&O's to the others in your article.

Great thread - this should be part of the FAQ section, if we had one on this site.

Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 May 2008, 06:49 pm
Just curious, how long did you play said capacitors before you evaluated the sonics?

I just have all the caps connected to my cap burn-in apparatus 24/7.  I started in December, January with some down time here and there, so each cap must have weeks and weeks of burn-in.  Even then, I try to keep the caps in the actual amp for as long as I can before forming my impressions.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 May 2008, 06:56 pm
thx Jon

Much appreciated

can you try a Russian teflon cap ( as you get them at ebay?) I prefer them compared to the Mundorf silver&gold i previously had in My Decware 6wattts tube "TABOO"amp. the Russian was more muscal in my system
i understood that since then Mundorf "dumped their silver and gold an replaced them with a newer generation.

Sigh.  I have almost hit the eBay "buy-now" button many times, but the shipping time mostly held me back.  If *someone* wants to let me borrow a couple of these Russian caps for a few weeks, that would be great.

I'm mainly interested in the FT-3 teflon caps and K40 oil caps, >500V rating. 

BTW, Mundorf didn't "dump" the silver/gold.  They simply created the silver/gold in OIL, which is priced higher.  I *may* try them, but we're getting kind of short on funds after all the cap-buying, so I might need to sell some off before trying new expensive caps  :slap:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: nodiak on 3 May 2008, 07:50 pm
Hi Jon, thanks for the work and posting results, really great to read. I have a pair of .22uF Russian FT-3 600V if you'd like to borrow for 4-6 weeks. And yes we'd all love to buy any you want to sell  :thumb:
PM me if interested in the FT-3's. (I thought the shipping time would be long too, but arrived in ~ 2 weeks. However my amp won't be built for 4-6 at least unfortunately.)
Don
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 3 May 2008, 10:05 pm


Sigh.  I have almost hit the eBay "buy-now" button many times, but the shipping time mostly held me back.  If *someone* wants to let me borrow a couple of these Russian caps for a few weeks, that would be great.

I'm mainly interested in the FT-3 teflon caps and K40 oil caps, >500V rating. 

BTW, Mundorf didn't "dump" the silver/gold.  They simply created the silver/gold in OIL, which is priced higher.  I *may* try them, but we're getting kind of short on funds after all the cap-buying, so I might need to sell some off before trying new expensive caps  :slap:

Hi I got the impression of "dumping" from Soniccrafr who sold them w 30% discount and the message: "Note - Sonic Craft is discontinuing the Silver/Gold.  As inventory is depleted out of stock values will be indicated below."
I misinterpreted their message
thx for the correction
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Rocket on 4 May 2008, 02:32 am
Hi Jon,

One of the best threads I've read for quite a while on audiocircle.  I've sent you a pm requesting some advice regarding cap selections.

Regards

Rod
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: stvnharr on 4 May 2008, 03:51 am
There is also a the new Auricap teflon cap, the Auri-T.  They come in the usual 600V values, and also have 3 200V value caps.
V-Cap also now has some TFTF caps in 300V values, which are a little more affordable
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 4 May 2008, 08:44 am
Hi Steve

the new Auricap is expensive..............
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: carusoracer on 4 May 2008, 03:39 pm
Excellent thread and great writeup.
Good reading!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 4 May 2008, 03:48 pm
nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 May 2008, 07:10 pm
nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data

Triangulate?  More like quinteplate.  Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html
 
Another cap comparison I mostly agree with is also here:

http://www.ecp.cc/cap-notes.html

There are others, but really, there is nothing like first-hand experience when it comes to caps  :green:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Double Ugly on 4 May 2008, 09:01 pm
nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data

Triangulate?  More like quinteplate.  Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html

Can't help but wonder what they'd (Supratek Cabernets) sound like with Sonicaps. 

I've always preferred Sonicap capacitors to those from Auricap, regardless of application, and the advent of the Platinum a few years ago made it a no-brainer where my equipment and dollars are concerned.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doak on 4 May 2008, 10:08 pm
Great info Jon - a real service to the "community".  :D

From what I've read the verdict on the Mundorf SIO  appears unanimous.
I'm looking forward to hearing these in my next speaker xover.

Doak
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dorokusai on 5 May 2008, 01:38 am
I would have went insane after testing all that stuff. I'm happy to see you alive and thanks for the effort.

Mark
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 5 May 2008, 01:31 pm
Very nice Jon. I have been compiling similar information over the past few years but mostly for personal notes.

 As most already know, I use a lot of the Mundorf, V-Cap, SoniCap and AuriCap capacitors but have yet to experiment with the new Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil but it is going into one of our new preamp prototypes. With new products in the R&D stage, I will have to admit that what does a great job in one component may not be the best in another. You cannot simply pick a "favorite" capacitor and use it everywhere.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Double Ugly on 5 May 2008, 01:44 pm
You cannot simply pick a "favorite" capacitor and use it everywhere.

No, but as per my post above, you can pick one you don't care for anywhere.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 5 May 2008, 02:00 pm
Quote
No, but as per my post above, you can pick one you don't care for anywhere.


 I kinda agree but when it comes to the AuriCap, I have always liked this capacitor in the past........... now introduce the SoniCap Gen II that Jeff introduced a couple years back which provides much (if not all) of the AuriCap signature but at a much lesser cost. Hmmm. No brainer? :scratch:

 Now if he only introduced the Gen II in larger 200V crossover values :drool:

 When post like this show up, I start receiving emails. I mostly receive inquiries about the SoniCap Platinum and V-Cap Teflon. My simple answer is they are both great capacitors but have different sonic signatures and I cannot tell 'you' which capacitor might be best for your application.

 Post like this are great as they provide personal insight on various comparisons in various applications as long as the reader keeps in mind that they are just that, personal opinions.

 Again, nice job Jon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Steve on 5 May 2008, 03:13 pm
"Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:"

Hi Jon,

     I think you are seeing first hand, ok maybe second hand, that alot depends on the circuit design, the system used, although I have never heard anything but good with the V cap. Subtle differences in design and system used, can tilt the playing field.

Cheers Jon, and thanks for your time and efforts.
Steve
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 6 May 2008, 06:09 pm
Well, I really wanted to further compare Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil, so..

---------------------------------------------------------------

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4747/msg123e958a4zo1.jpg)

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/363/mcapsilveroil257614sl5.jpg)

I finally did some proper comparisons between these 2 capacitors, and while they do share the musical Mundorf house sound, their differences are significant enough that one should not automatically think a system synergistic with one will be synergistic with the other.

There are some who have concluded silver/gold is "not as good" as silver/oil, but I would not agree with that conclusion.  However, they have sufficiently differing presentations and gestalt that yes, one "may" definitely prefer silver/oil in a given setup/preferences. 

One word I would use to describe the main difference is "liquidity."  While both are remarkably smooth, silver/oil has more liquidity, not enough to obscure detail but just enough to "massage" recordings that are not perfect. As a result, I am able to enjoy more percentage of my recordings through silver/oil, which liquifies a few percent of the upper-midrange/low-treble spittiness and hardness inherent in many recordings.  Because silver/oil makes this range less noticeable, the high treble/air becomes relatively more noticeable, but upon closer analysis, the silver/gold has just as much upper end extension and air. 

So once again, I still think silver/oil is the cap that most likely will have me keep listening to my (non-perfect) music collection instead of tweaking, but if your system is already leaning towards liquidity, silver/gold may be a better choice.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 8 May 2008, 04:09 pm
Due to the generosity of AC member GBB, I now have some Russin K72 teflon caps and FT-3 teflon caps burning in.  Will report after extremely long break-in, I'm sure. 

Now if only I could get a hold of a pair of K40 oil caps  :wink:

BTW.  These Russian caps are WAY bigger and heavier in person than in eBay pics  :?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 8 May 2008, 09:00 pm
Jon , I have several questions . Has Jupiter upgraded their line . Of the 4 capacitor shootouts that I'm aware of , 2 pan the Jupiters pretty hard , and yours and ECP's really like them . Also did you use the 1uf 600v copper lead or the silver lead (or something else altogether )?

I've read Jupiter was going to Upgrade their product with higher heat ratings and soforth but have not seen anything advertised .

Thanks
Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: piedpiper on 12 May 2008, 01:48 pm
As above, thanks for the delicately written and researched review.

As much as I'm interested in caps for the tube coupling application that was your context, I also have need for very small voltage coupling in SS, say 16VDC, as well as the very different context of speakers, both of which I'm sure would reveal different results. Also curious about experiences with DynamiCaps and Duelunds.

On a totally different note, I would love to be directed to any threads about headphone comparisons used as a neutral reference for recording. I'm getting increasingly mistrustful of my Sennheiser HD 650s and Etymotic Research ER 4Ss as they seem to error on either side of the line.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 12 May 2008, 08:26 pm
On a totally different note, I would love to be directed to any threads about headphone comparisons used as a neutral reference for recording. I'm getting increasingly mistrustful of my Sennheiser HD 650s and Etymotic Research ER 4Ss as they seem to error on either side of the line.

Thanks again.

I would go do some searches here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/

For recording, you're right HD650 and Ety ER4S cannot be expected to result in neutral recordings.  For reasonable money, I would tend to go with something like older HD600 with HD650 headphone cable for less bass bloat.  For IEM's, something like Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro's have better balance.  AKG's in general are better for monitoring as well, K701 being decent for this purpose. 

Money no object, I would go with one of the top electrostat headphone systems. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: djbnh on 12 May 2008, 10:20 pm
As above, thanks for the delicately written and researched review.

As much as I'm interested in caps for the tube coupling application that was your context, I also have need for very small voltage coupling in SS, say 16VDC, as well as the very different context of speakers, both of which I'm sure would reveal different results. Also curious about experiences with DynamiCaps and Duelunds.

On a totally different note, I would love to be directed to any threads about headphone comparisons used as a neutral reference for recording. I'm getting increasingly mistrustful of my Sennheiser HD 650s and Etymotic Research ER 4Ss as they seem to error on either side of the line.

Thanks again.
I much prefer the Senn HD650s with Stefan AudioArt Equinox headphone cable. Not inexpensive but worth it IMO.

Furthermore, I recommend re-burning in your gear using the IsoTek System Enhancer CD ($32.99) - freakin' disc works like a charm, might be a significant help in getting the Senns more to your liking, speeding up the burn-in time of all those caps, etc.  The 6moons review (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html) details what it might be able to do for you; I swear by the Isotek disc.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 14 May 2008, 02:19 am
Well, I really wanted to further compare Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil, so..

---------------------------------------------------------------

Mundorf silver/gold vs. silver/oil

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4747/msg123e958a4zo1.jpg)

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/363/mcapsilveroil257614sl5.jpg)

I finally did some proper comparisons between these 2 capacitors, and while they do share the musical Mundorf house sound, their differences are significant enough that one should not automatically think a system synergistic with one will be synergistic with the other.

There are some who have concluded silver/gold is "not as good" as silver/oil, but I would not agree with that conclusion.  However, they have sufficiently differing presentations and gestalt that yes, one "may" definitely prefer silver/oil in a given setup/preferences. 

One word I would use to describe the main difference is "liquidity."  While both are remarkably smooth, silver/oil has more liquidity, not enough to obscure detail but just enough to "massage" recordings that are not perfect. As a result, I am able to enjoy more percentage of my recordings through silver/oil, which liquifies a few percent of the upper-midrange/low-treble spittiness and hardness inherent in many recordings.  Because silver/oil makes this range less noticeable, the high treble/air becomes relatively more noticeable, but upon closer analysis, the silver/gold has just as much upper end extension and air. 

So once again, I still think silver/oil is the cap that most likely will have me keep listening to my (non-perfect) music collection instead of tweaking, but if your system is already leaning towards liquidity, silver/gold may be a better choice.
 

Hi john,

I am probably going to get my hands on a Transcendentsound preamp which is extremely neutral with 12AU7 tubes. So how much are these mundorfs you are talking about 1Uf with 400V or so. Probably the oil ones.

Thanks.

Ray Bronk
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 14 May 2008, 02:25 am
I am probably going to get my hands on a Transcendentsound preamp which is extremely neutral with 12AU7 tubes. So how much are these mundorfs you are talking about 1Uf with 400V or so. Probably the oil ones.

Thanks.

Ray Bronk

The silver/oils at 1 uF are $54.57/each unfortunately.  However, Parts Connexion is having a sale right now with 15% off everything, so if you're going to buy expensive caps of any kind, now would be the time!
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 14 May 2008, 02:30 am
Quote
The silver/oils at 1 uF are $54.57/each unfortunately.


 Jeff over at Sonic Craft sells the 1uF Silver/Oil for $47 ea. He is also having a clearance on the SIlver/Gold if you want to spend a little more ($73 ea.)

http://www.soniccraft.com/mundorf_capacitors.htm (http://www.soniccraft.com/mundorf_capacitors.htm)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 14 May 2008, 07:33 am
I am probably going to get my hands on a Transcendentsound preamp which is extremely neutral with 12AU7 tubes. So how much are these mundorfs you are talking about 1Uf with 400V or so. Probably the oil ones.

Thanks.

Ray Bronk

The silver/oils at 1 uF are $54.57/each unfortunately.  However, Parts Connexion is having a sale right now with 15% off everything, so if you're going to buy expensive caps of any kind, now would be the time!
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html

Thanks for the info.

Ray Bronk
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Les Lammers on 14 May 2008, 09:46 am
Due to the generosity of AC member GBB, I now have some Russin K72 teflon caps and FT-3 teflon caps burning in.  Will report after extremely long break-in, I'm sure. 

Now if only I could get a hold of a pair of K40 oil caps  :wink:

BTW.  These Russian caps are WAY bigger and heavier in person than in eBay pics  :?

Jon,

I have some K40's shho me a PM.

Les
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: piedpiper on 14 May 2008, 02:43 pm
Thanks for the input, Jon L and djbnh.

I suspect that even with better cables and special burn in that the 650s will never stray far enough from their ultra plush sound to be able to trust as a recording reference. Conversely the Etymotics are just too bright and lean to trust either. They certainly deliver the detail, but not the neutrality. Either have worked well in a live to 2 track stereo micing situation where tonal balance is more of a given. With multitracking, where artistic license is more of an issue, I need to have a more reliable reference point for tonality.

I've been on the lookout for a more ideal alternative IEM but haven't had the chance to check out the Ultimate Ears.  I've had the the 580s and 600s, "upgrading" as they've come out, but I haven't I compared the newer AKGs to the Senns or Grados. The Stax are great and I may resort to getting them at some point.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: djbnh on 14 May 2008, 02:53 pm
..but I haven't I compared the newer AKGs to the Senns or Grados. The Stax are great and I may resort to getting them at some point.
I have the following phones: Senn HD650, Grado 325i, and AKG701; I note that each has its own strengths. Never owned or listed to Stax.

Anyway, best of luck with finding what suits your taste in phones and caps. I look forward to reading more in this thread.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 14 May 2008, 07:10 pm
A very informative and enjoyable read. Thank you Jon for all the time and effort this project entailed.

Rob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 16 May 2008, 06:39 pm
Has anyone tried the AudioCap PSU (polypropylene, copper foil, with gold/copper leads) caps?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 16 May 2008, 06:52 pm
Hello rpf,
 I think you mean the PCU? I have used these in the past and they are a very good capacitor but resides in the league of expensive price points. I have not done any comparisons with the capacitors I now use on a regular basis but can tell you that it has the claim characteristics it advertises;  It is extremely warm and rich, yet clean and detailed. I have also used a lot of the Theta in the past which I liked very much, the PCU is much warmer in comparison.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 16 May 2008, 08:08 pm
Thanks Bill. Yes, I meant the PCU. I'm thinking of trying some AudioCaps (or perhaps something similar) as I seem to have a surfeit of teflon in my system (all my electronics have teflon caps). I've been struggling with a touch of that overly smooth, "polished" and "slippery" high end Jon referred to.

Rob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 17 May 2008, 12:53 am
Quote
I've been struggling with a touch of that overly smooth, "polished" and "slippery" high end Jon referred to.

 Hi Rob,
 If you are looking for a clean, accurate presentation with a capacitor that simply gets out of the way and introduces no character of it's own, I would look no further than the original SoniCap Gen I.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 17 May 2008, 03:51 pm
Quote
I've been struggling with a touch of that overly smooth, "polished" and "slippery" high end Jon referred to.

 Hi Rob,
 If you are looking for a clean, accurate presentation with a capacitor that simply gets out of the way and introduces no character of it's own, I would look no further than the original SoniCap Gen I.

Thanks again Bill.

My Dodd Mono 50s come stock with SoniCaps (don't remember now whether Gen I or II) but I went for Gary's upgrade package which includes the SoniCap Platinums. Great sounding amps but, again, added to the Modwright Teflon caps in both the 36.5 and the 9100, I suspect I have too much teflon in my system.

For background (and sorry to go somewhat off topic), the reason the AudioCaps intrigue me is that they are in my Aural Acoustics (Thetas, not as earlier stated, mostly PCUs) and the sound of these speakers are mostly as the caps are described: very clean, very detailed, very rich, but slightly, rather than very, warm. Obviously the overall design and other parts play a major or predominant role in these qualities (the designers are big fans of Quad electrostatics and the old Dahlquist DQ10s and it shows in the sound) but nonetheless I can't help but wonder what the AudioCaps would sound like in one of my electronics. Particularly as I really love the Aurals and know the designers auditioned a lot of caps.


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 17 May 2008, 05:00 pm
Quote
I've been struggling with a touch of that overly smooth, "polished" and "slippery" high end Jon referred to.

 Hi Rob,
 If you are looking for a clean, accurate presentation with a capacitor that simply gets out of the way and introduces no character of it's own, I would look no further than the original SoniCap Gen I.

Hi Bill,

Where do I go for the Sonicap Gen I? I presume that stands for Generation One? What is in your opinion the difference between the Sonicap Gen I versus the Platinum?

Ray Bronk
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 17 May 2008, 05:15 pm
Quote

Hi Bill,

Where do I go for the Sonicap Gen I? I presume that stands for Generation One? What is in your opinion the difference between the Sonicap Gen I versus the Platinum?

Ray Bronk

http://www.soniccraft.com/
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 17 May 2008, 05:26 pm
Or from Danny at GR Research.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 17 May 2008, 10:21 pm
Hi rpf,
 As Mark mentioned you can get them from Danny at GR Research.

 The SonicCap Gen I (Generation 1) and Platinum are different animals. The Platinums are Teflon and obviously come at a high price. If you can swing it, the Platinums make exceptional bypass caps in loudspeakers (high pass and mid band), power supply bypass and coupling capacitors in tube gear. I imagine they would do well in solid state as well but I simply wouldn't know :roll:

 Search SoniCap Platinum here and you should come up with a lot of info and applications.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 17 May 2008, 11:18 pm
Hi rpf,
 As Mark mentioned you can get them from Danny at GR Research.

 The SonicCap Gen I (Generation 1) and Platinum are different animals. The Platinums are Teflon and obviously come at a high price. If you can swing it, the Platinums make exceptional bypass caps in loudspeakers (high pass and mid band), power supply bypass and coupling capacitors in tube gear. I imagine they would do well in solid state as well but I simply wouldn't know :roll:

 Search SoniCap Platinum here and you should come up with a lot of info and applications.


I was quoting Ray and referring him to SonicCraft. As I posted earlier, I have the SonicCap Platinums in my Dodd Mono 50s.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 18 May 2008, 02:21 am
Hi rpf,
 As Mark mentioned you can get them from Danny at GR Research.

 The SonicCap Gen I (Generation 1) and Platinum are different animals. The Platinums are Teflon and obviously come at a high price. If you can swing it, the Platinums make exceptional bypass caps in loudspeakers (high pass and mid band), power supply bypass and coupling capacitors in tube gear. I imagine they would do well in solid state as well but I simply wouldn't know :roll:

 Search SoniCap Platinum here and you should come up with a lot of info and applications.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the info on the caps. In the Transcendentsound GGP Bruce uses Solen caps. So on the main board, I was thinking about getting the Gen I caps to replace the ones there. Just got to get the balues. I figure it would open up the GGP (Grounded Grid preamplp) a bit more. Now, whether it would be worth the roughly 70 dollars or so to do this project, time would only tell.

Ray Bronk

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 19 May 2008, 06:44 pm
Jon L.

Did you ever get those K40y's ? Just wondering how they stood up against the competition ?

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 19 May 2008, 09:21 pm
Jon L.

Did you ever get those K40y's ? Just wondering how they stood up against the competition ?

Joey B.

"K40y's" Not sure what you are asking me?

Ray
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 19 May 2008, 09:49 pm
Jon L.

Did you ever get those K40y's ? Just wondering how they stood up against the competition ?

Joey B.

"K40y's" Not sure what you are asking me?

Ray

Heh, he's asking me if I was able to get in some Russian K40y oil caps.  I had somebody who e-mailed me to possibly send me a pair of K40y's, but not so far.  Since I am comparing FT3 and K72 Russian teflons this week, it would be *real* nice to get in some K40y's about now.   :wink:  :wink:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 19 May 2008, 09:54 pm
Jon L.

Did you ever get those K40y's ? Just wondering how they stood up against the competition ?

Joey B.

"K40y's" Not sure what you are asking me?

Ray

Heh, he's asking me if I was able to get in some Russian K40y oil caps.  I had somebody who e-mailed me to possibly send me a pair of K40y's, but not so far.  Since I am comparing FT3 and K72 Russian teflons this week, it would be *real* nice to get in some K40y's about now.   :wink:  :wink:

Hi John L,

Ok, now I understand. heheh. Have you looked at the various types of Sonicaps? Reading what Bill has to say, I'm looking at getting this GGP and rather than Solens I thought I would sub for better caps. I'll leave the power supply alone for now.

Ray Bronk
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 20 May 2008, 03:09 pm
Sorry Ray , the question was for Jon :oops: I ordered some k40y's from Rutube but they have not arrived  :cry:. It's been over 2 weeks now , I hate waiting for stuff like that to arrive .  I am going to burn them in for two weeks and then try them as couplers on my nos DAC  8). I'm now running Mundorf silv/oil in both my DAC and Pre-amp . On well recorded music the sound is very liquid and layered nicely . If a CD is on the bright side(i.e. Herbie Hancock , The Joni Letters) music seems to be slightly ( I mean just slightly , not unlistenable )tipped up in the upper mids/low treble . I've read where the K40's are warm and transparent , so the two may be a good mix . :drool: or not  :duh:. My earlier question about Jupiters was not a troll , but a sincere question about which one you are using and if they are an updated model ?
 :wink:

TIA

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 20 May 2008, 11:19 pm
I ordered some k40y's from Rutube but they have not arrived  :cry:.

Looks like an AC member is sending me some K40y's this week :) 
The word on all these Russian caps is forthcoming, but you'd be surprised to know the Russian teflons have the sound signature you are looking for in upper-mid/low-treble.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 21 May 2008, 01:24 pm
I know a guy in Des Moines that does a few mods for guys . I have heard the Russian Teflons in an amp/pre-amp  . While the Mids/highs were as good as I've ever heard , bass was MIA . The mods were to Tubed Anthem gear , playing on Paradigm sig's (2 way bookshelf) I will say this , I have no Idea what size cap he used , wheather it was undersized for the task or not. Maybe a K40y bypassed with a .1 or .01 Russian teflon would really be the ticket .

Your capacitor shootout is a great service to all us DIY'ers , we really appreciate your commitment and willingness to share .

Thanks Again
Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 21 May 2008, 01:54 pm
I've tried those Russian teflons, but only in a .1uF bypass to larger caps. They work really, really well in that capacity in both my phono stage and in my speaker's tweeter crossover. Nice sense of space and extension without any harshness. Of course, the larger cap is handling the bass portion of the signal, not these physically large Russian teflons.

I strongly suggest breaking them in for 200 hours before putting them into anything, just like any other teflon.

Enjoy,
Bob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 26 May 2008, 08:05 pm
Russian FT3 Teflon Capacitor

(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4442/img5815rj1.jpg)

I must first thank an Audio Circle member Gary (“GBB”) for loaning me the FT3 and K72 caps.  Otherwise, I would have had to buy on eBay and wait a month for delivery.  The FT3 is a great cap sonically, but its sheer size and weight can present a challenge in cramped spaces.  Its lack of traditional leadouts also forces one to make his own; I had to solder some leftover leads as seen in the photo above. 

This cap is exceedingly smooth, smooth, yet resolved like only teflon caps are.  This evenness and lack of glare, grain, or bite can be disadvantageous for FT3, especially in quick cap-rolling A-B comparisons, where a cap with a more insistent personality will attract more attention and spotlight.  However, after living with this cap for a long time, one has to marvel at its consistently musically-revealing nature and tonality.  It doesn’t wear its detail resolution on its sleeve, yet when one chooses to listen for it, the extension in both directions are impressive as well as actual detail.  Its trick is having equal resolution from top-to-bottom, so the whole is well, wholesome.  It conveys music in a flowing, suave tonality and is the crooner of the cap crowd. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russian K72 Teflon Capacitor

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4706/img5816mk4.jpg)

Probably the most hyped AND maligned cap out there.  Some praise it while others despise it and write it off completely.  It is my understanding that FT3 and K72 caps are internally the same.  Here is an internal picture of K72, courtesy of the internet.

(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6023/teflons46bf7f55yf7.jpg)

FT3 uses aluminum casing and thin tabs as leadouts while K72 uses thicker steel casing with solid poles as leadouts.  FT3 is glass-encapsulated while K72 is hermetically sealed, and due to the thick steel case, K72 is even heavier than FT3. 

One huge caveat to comparing K72 and FT3 is that the largest value of K72 available seems to be 0.056uF, while FT3 is predominantly available in 0.1 and 0.22uF.  My loaned K72 was the customary 0.056uF and FT3 0.22uF, and yes, the larger cap is “supposed” to be more bassy.  Lo and behold, FT3 does seem to be a little richer in the bass region; however, it was not a huge difference, and there is no way to tell how much of this is due to the uF difference or just the way these caps sound.  This cannot be answered today b/c K72 does not come in 0.1 or 0.22uF and FT3 does not come in 0.056uF. 

These caps do sound similar, but after doing A-B-A-B comparisons using music with and without bass, I can say they do have differences.  K72 adds a pinch of spice and “kick” to the proceedings.  Middle midrange to somewhere in upper midrange seems to sound bit more obviously “detailed” with K72; this leads to a little more tension in the listener’s shoulders when playing poorly-recorded material, i.e. the vast majority of today’s compressed and hotly EQ’d modern fare.  Some may even call it extra grain, glaze, or hardness compared to FT3’s relative softer rendering.  However, with clean recordings, I can see some people even preferring K72 for its more assertive, forward stance.  Combining that little highlighting with a bit tighter control, K72 comes across as hair more dynamic and fun.  Which Teflon cap should you purchase?  Well, both are cheap enough that I think you should try both, but do consider if you wish for a little more smoothness vs. forwardness from current setup.

P.S.  When you tap the stiff steel case of K72, you can hear and feel a hollow “ping” resonance.  I tried applying a strip of EAR Isodamp material, covering about 1/3 of the surface area, which attenuated the sparkle and “detail” just a tad.  I’m not saying one is better than the other, but depending on your tastes, a bit of damping may have a role.   
-------------------------------------------------------------
Are You a Contender?

So, are these Russian teflon caps as “good” as the V Caps, Sonicap Teflons?  Well, I know some say no, but I don’t know how to answer that. 

In direct comparisons, VCap teflon does come across as having the highest highs and the most linear response across the range.  It paints the sonic scape with the finer brush, and its sonic signature reminds me of my beloved Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plate tubes for you tube people.  On the other hand, the FT3 and especially K72 have a more forward, bolder midrange presentation, albeit with a bit less refinement and a bit bolder lower midrange/upper bass range.  I enjoy listening to deep male vocals a bit more through the Russian caps while VCaps absolutely rule with high-pitched female vocals and instruments that live in the same range and above, resolving them with the finest of the surgical scalpel yet without any harshness. 

I really don’t feel all these caps should be given concrete rankings, like number 1, 2, 3, etc.  Let’s just say music can sound glorious with most good caps mentioned in this article, often coming down to tweaking tubes, interconnects, power cords, etc.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 27 May 2008, 03:05 am
Some Vishay 1839 caps and Russian K40 oil caps coming up soon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Jun 2008, 12:34 am
The Russian K40y paper-in-oil caps are up next.  Just for size comparisons, the following caps are of the same value, starting from top:  Russian FT3 Teflon, Russian K40y PIO, Mundorf Silver/Oil.

(http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/2676/img5907by2.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 1 Jun 2008, 03:57 am
I guess size does matter especially going into tight places :lol:

 You've put together a great cap comparison, If I may speak for all here, Thank you
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: serengetiplains on 4 Jun 2008, 02:26 am
Hi Jon, great work!  Just a note about K72 and FT3 differences.  K72 caps use extended foil lead connections, FT3s use two pressed aluminum tabs, each pressed to one part of the plate (I've seen a fingerprint on one such pressing surface!).  K72 leads are, in toto: capacitor plate --> zinc or god knows what kind of solder/spray --> silver wire --> silver coated steel or some other magnetic god knows what.  FT3 lead connections are, similarly: plate --> tab --> silver or silver-coated round bar pressed onto --> silver or silver coated outer tab, all non-magnetic.  K72s are hermetically sealed, FT3s are not. 

On the whole, these Russkie caps look well made.

FWIW, I've injected some K72s with Fluorinert (liquid teflon), with interesting results.  I'd call the injection experiment a success.  The resulting cap is a sibilance killer.  If you want to test a few, I'll send you a pair (low value).  I can also send you a pair of porous teflon in Fluorinert capacitors I had wound for me.  Far out holophonic beasts!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Jun 2008, 02:33 am
FWIW, I've injected some K72s with Fluorinert (liquid teflon), with interesting results.  I'd call the injection experiment a success.  The resulting cap is a sibilance killer.  If you want to test a few, I'll send you a pair (low value).  I can also send you a pair of porous teflon in Fluorinert capacitors I had wound for me.  Far out holophonic beasts!

By God, we must be crazy.  But heck, why not, I'll try some of that craziness  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Jun 2008, 02:36 am
Russian K40y Paper-In-Oil Capacitor

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7649/img5908ww7.jpg)

I must thank “Bob B” and “Les Lemmars” for kindly loaning me these K40y caps.  After the usual rocky burn-in ritual, this PIO cap settled into a confident, natural sounding device.  There are some audiophiles who rank these PIO caps as the best of the Russian military caps, including the FT-3 and K72 teflon caps.  I may agree with this sentiment when it comes to utter naturalness and ease of presentation as well as the lack of a subtle “plastic” sound, which of course all plastic (film) caps have. 

Gladly, this PIO cap did not have an overly dark, laid-back sound some people may expect of PIO caps.  The important midrange energy was quite forceful and engaging as well as richly harmonic.  The rendering of textures was most reminiscent of a good vinyl setup, which is a good thing; and detail resolution was not lacking, either, but the extreme “air” on top was not as beautifully alive as with VCap teflons.  Speaking of teflons, the only real reservation I have about K40y is in the bass.  The VCap Teflon, K72, FT3, Sonicap Platinum all seem to have a tighter control over basslines with sharper leading edges and snappier decay.  K40y’s bass is more woody, richer, but just shy of the vise-grip crunch, so if you’re a death-metal or electronica fan, K40y may not get you to the promised land.

Overall, I really enjoyed the K40y.  Its raison d’tere falls squarely in the critical midrange, where tons of texture, bloom, and natural detail anchor the music without that subtle synthetic feel of many other caps.  Although the voices aren’t brightly spotlit, there is a magical highlighting and intensification without turning bright. 

Dare I dream of oil-impregnated foamed-teflon silver-foil capacitor…?
-----------------------------------
Vishay Roederstein MKP-1839 Metalized Polypropylene Capacitor

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8580/img5910al9.jpg)

Audio Circle member “slbender” was kind enough to send me some less-than-exotic caps to evaluate, including the Vishay MKP-1839.  His view is that most caps of similar construction, e.g. metallized poly, should sound very similar, no matter the brand or price.  This was a good exercise for me because it helped with the “Big Question” that must be lurking in the minds of many audiophiles:  are these expensive, exotic capacitors worth it?   

Vishay MKP-1839 is the axial version of the more famous Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 (a.k.a. ERO MKP1830), which is touted as a good bypass cap, and represents a well-made, inexpensive metallized poly cap.  And as it turns out, it also sounds good as a coupling cap.  Upon casual listening from a casual house guest, for example, it is unlikely he will jump up and down and scream, “Put back that other capacitor X ASAP!”

MKP-1839 sounds pretty well-balanced, without obvious peaks or valleys, and pleasant; it is less hard-sounding than, say Solens.  In fact, one can only wish manufacturers would use caps like MKP-1839 in their cheaper, generic audio gear.  So, why should you pay more for your cap?

The most important difference between MKP and some of the better caps is the weight behind the notes.  I’m not talking about bass weight or warmth but the fully fleshed-out, 3-dimensional harmonic energy behind each note, be it in treble, mid, or bass.  Lacking this, soprano, chime, flute can sound just 2-dimentional and thin, failing to fully make you believe. 

The other significant difference is in dynamics.  The MKP doesn’t sound too lacking until you compare to the better caps.  A “pop” or “thwack” via MKP sounds like a fighter who is punching to save his neighbor’s life whereas via a better cap, he sounds like he’s punching to save his own life.  Similar difference in microdynamics as well; better caps simply let the small nuances and subtleties to bubble to the surface with easier effervescence and life. 

I still don’t believe any of this truly answers the question whether exotic caps are worth it because the answer will depend on one’s gear, tastes, resolution level of the system, musical choice, pocketbook status, and simply how crazy you are.  Time to enjoy the music, either way, any way…
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: serengetiplains on 4 Jun 2008, 02:45 am
Jon, I also have some Penta Labs (Custom Electronics) teflon caps I could send you ... 1uF 600V jobs.  Let me know.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: McLanz on 4 Jun 2008, 09:32 am

Hi, I'm just perform a change in my EL 84 SE Triode amp. I change signal caps from wimas (MKP10 & 4)to FT3 equal value(0,1µ)

I can only agree with Jon L findings.
As I did several tests with mundorf silver/gold in Oil, Jensens, CDE, Russian PIOs, (in all positions Amp, LS or OutputSTAGES) --I'm pleased to see that other people achieve equal results, --although mundorf isn't my "absolut" winner but is a very very good cap.

First: The russian teflons really made a interesting developing while break in process. In the beginning they were very "slippery" :wink:  sounding. Not really precise - it felt like it was "over" open - a current "flow" of signal glided through my amp without any barriers.  But it was very artificial, it had a space sound signature... :lol:
MAybe somehow harmonic dist. or something else?!

Then they were quiet unspectacular - no glare, no detail - I nearly soldered them out...

I chose to play loud, that helped after around 1day -24h of playing they were finally ready to compare against that old sound of my wimas. (MKP 4 and MKP10).

Well, I aspected benefits and of course the wimas are not as half as good as those teflons!
In comparison: The wimas add a big harshness: orchestras are "hard and edgy" HiHats are very distorted.
Paradox - It lets you think it's "dynamic" but it's only a kind of impulse distortion. They miss the real tone and it's staging position.

The teflon is overall smooth and relaxed. Let everything just pass through without markeable glare, and as Jon said "from the bottom to the top" absolutly detailed. 

Staging differs from wimas: It's much wider and deeper, but it's not like a typical "audiophile" cap. There's  no hype in highs of a "forward" player - no adding of glare like the big mundorfs. It's simple "there" . Sometimes I wonder if I'm thinking or dreaming of the music or listening to it. It's signature is so undetectable (Subjective) that I just let the music come to me without questioning it.

Dynamics are bit taken back, I don't have my old feeling of power"filled" music when listening to famous tracks like "walking on the moon" from Yori Honing Trio. It's between abolutly souvereign overview of all instruments and a bit laid back, smooth playing.

Although I like that natural way a lot I also agree that I sometimes would like to have a bit more dynamic feeling. Also the highs are a bit taken back, maybe thats the point?! But I wouldn't sign whats the "true" sound. With all my test like resistors: I only achieved less "ting & ping" dynamic stress, and got more relaxed and totaly catching moments of music. More tone and clean harmonics, without primariely focusing the dynamic parts.

I just got jensen copper PIOs today! I'm very exited how they will play?

But my last word is: This caps is most catching and fascinating caps ever (For now) :wink:. There's  something totally different how they behave that "open" sound is great...I really respecting these caps.

BTW I would like to take off the aluminium body, as they are glass sealed. Did anybody tried this with FT3s??

so far --greets: from the continent Jochen
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doug s. on 4 Jun 2008, 01:14 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 4 Jun 2008, 01:21 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.

Now we're talking more mainstream.

Ray
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doug s. on 4 Jun 2008, 01:44 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.

Now we're talking more mainstream.

Ray
mundorfs, vcaps, sonicaps are also mainstream, afaik...  as my almarro a205a mkll came w/hovland caps, i am curious about how they stack up...

doug s.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 4 Jun 2008, 02:01 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.

Now we're talking more mainstream.

Ray
mundorfs, vcaps, sonicaps are also mainstream, afaik...  as my almarro a205a mkll came w/hovland caps, i am curious about how they stack up...

doug s.

If they came stock then they must be crap. Go out IMMEDIATELY and shell out hundreds for teflons.  :lol:

All kidding aside, the teflons just have something that the others don't give you. I would suggest that if you don't want to replace a full 1.0uF cap with a very expensive teflon, then get some of these Russian .1uF teflons, if they will fit, and install a bypass over the old caps. You will get 95% of the cure for a lot less money.

Enjoy,
Bob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest1632 on 4 Jun 2008, 02:17 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.

Now we're talking more mainstream.

Ray
mundorfs, vcaps, sonicaps are also mainstream, afaik...  as my almarro a205a mkll came w/hovland caps, i am curious about how they stack up...

doug s.

You're right Doug F, but several posts back, people were offering to send him caps I've never heard of before. I'd like to hear John L's word on the Sonicap Gen I. The gen II, is from what I read a bit thin sounding. The Gen I is reasonably cheap.

Ray
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Jun 2008, 03:57 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.

Now we're talking more mainstream.

Ray
mundorfs, vcaps, sonicaps are also mainstream, afaik...  as my almarro a205a mkll came w/hovland caps, i am curious about how they stack up...

doug s.

You're right Doug F, but several posts back, people were offering to send him caps I've never heard of before. I'd like to hear John L's word on the Sonicap Gen I. The gen II, is from what I read a bit thin sounding. The Gen I is reasonably cheap.

Ray

Hmm.  No one has offered to send any non-teflon Sonicaps yet.  I do use them in my speaker crossover, but no, I won't be deconstructing my speaker crossover. 

I didn't include Hovlands in direct comparisons, but I have used them.  BTW, Almarro doesn't "come with" Hovlands as stock; somebody must have modded them.  The stock cap is a grey-colored, unknown Japanese polyester cap, which is not bad actually. 

Without going into detail, Hovlands tend to have a strong personality with lots of "apparent" detail, a cap you can't ignore, for better or worse  :scratch:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doug s. on 4 Jun 2008, 04:00 pm

If they came stock then they must be crap. Go out IMMEDIATELY and shell out hundreds for teflons.  :lol:

All kidding aside, the teflons just have something that the others don't give you. I would suggest that if you don't want to replace a full 1.0uF cap with a very expensive teflon, then get some of these Russian .1uF teflons, if they will fit, and install a bypass over the old caps. You will get 95% of the cure for a lot less money.

Enjoy,
Bob
the hovland caps are not the stock caps that come in almarro amps; they were upgrades that came in the used amp i bought.  not super expensive, but not chicken feed, at ~$14 each for 0.047uf walues...

http://www.hovlandcompany.com/products/musicap/default.html

doug s.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: toobluvr on 4 Jun 2008, 04:50 pm

Great thread guys!
Thanks for all the great info.

hmmmmmmm....now which ones to put into my Dodd 120 monos?

 :scratch:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 4 Jun 2008, 06:19 pm
has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.


Tony Gee has a comprehesive capacitor comparison . He is inserting them in the signal path of tweeter and midrange of a speaker . The Hoveland caps are included and all caps are ranked numerically . It's at:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Joey B.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doug s. on 4 Jun 2008, 06:32 pm
excellent - thanks!  now, how does cap use in speakers correlate - if at all - to use in amps?

doug s.

has anyone here ever had experience w/hovland musicaps?

thanks,

doug s.


Tony Gee has a comprehesive capacitor comparison . He is inserting them in the signal path of tweeter and midrange of a speaker . The Hoveland caps are included and all caps are ranked numerically . It's at:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Joey B.


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 4 Jun 2008, 07:40 pm
 :roll:

Doug S.

I've been following Tony's discourse for several years . But could not tell ya how coupling and series to a speaker would matchup  for sure :oops:. Perhaps Jon L. could answer that ? To a degree they are both series caps so the assumption would be be that the result is simular (that's just a WAG) . There is the Tempo Electric capacitor tests that test capacitors in coupling , speaker x-over , and ac filter capacities and rate each and may be more what your looking for . But their studies  are not as big as Tony's . Jon L's test is getting to be very big itself and is a great service to all the DIY'ers . 

 http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm


Note to Jon - Still don't have my K40's in , it's been over 4 weeks now  :cry: After reading your review  i'd really like to see them arrive .

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 4 Jun 2008, 07:46 pm

Great thread guys!
Thanks for all the great info.

hmmmmmmm....now which ones to put into my Dodd 120 monos?

 :scratch:


Which do you have in there now and what don't you like about them ?

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Jun 2008, 07:58 pm
:roll:

Note to Jon - Still don't have my K40's in , it's been over 4 weeks now  :cry: After reading your review  i'd really like to see them arrive .

Joey B.

Which eBay vendor did you buy from? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 4 Jun 2008, 08:00 pm
RUTUBES.com , not from Ebay .



Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: douglesc on 4 Jun 2008, 08:02 pm
I Appreciate this capacitor comparison Thread.........That said I am suprised nobody has brought up the Jantzen ZSuperior or ZSilver Capacitor.............When you look at what you pay for what you get these caps may be the best value out there.  It seems to me that these caps are at least getting you in the arena of the best money can buy...................I AM NOT saying they are the best but they are at least very good.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 4 Jun 2008, 08:40 pm
Just kind of curious.  I see tolerances of anywhere from 2 percent to 20 percent in the caps mentioned.  Changing the value of a capacitor will pretty obviously change the circuit operation aside from the composition of the part in question.

Nowhere to I see any mention of exact matching of values between samples to assure that the test was not just listening to value changes, not something more subtile.

Capacitors are the values they are, not the values printed on them.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Les Lammers on 5 Jun 2008, 12:45 am
:roll:

Note to Jon - Still don't have my K40's in , it's been over 4 weeks now  :cry: After reading your review  i'd really like to see them arrive .

Joey B.

Which eBay vendor did you buy from? 

Be patient it may take 6 weeks. Mail is slow from Russia.   aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: toobluvr on 5 Jun 2008, 01:39 am

Great thread guys!
Thanks for all the great info.

hmmmmmmm....now which ones to put into my Dodd 120 monos?

 :scratch:


Which do you have in there now and what don't you like about them ?

Joey B.



I have the stock Dodd monos without the upgraded caps.
They are Sonicaps, either Gen I or Gen II....not sure.  Gary also offered them with cap upgrade to the Sonicap Platinum.

See the Sonicaps here:

http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicap.htm

No real problem with the sound now, but always seeking.  If I were pressed, I'd say I'm looking for a bit more fluidity, immediacy and presence.  Tonal balance, detail, imaging, dynamics and bass are currently very good.


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 5 Jun 2008, 01:04 pm

Great thread guys!
Thanks for all the great info.

hmmmmmmm....now which ones to put into my Dodd 120 monos?

 :scratch:


Which do you have in there now and what don't you like about them ?

Joey B.



I have the stock Dodd monos without the upgraded caps.
They are Sonicaps, either Gen I or Gen II....not sure.  Gary also offered them with cap upgrade to the Sonicap Platinum.

See the Sonicaps here:

http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicap.htm

No real problem with the sound now, but always seeking.  If I were pressed, I'd say I'm looking for a bit more fluidity, immediacy and presence.  Tonal balance, detail, imaging, dynamics and bass are currently very good.




Mundorf Silv/oils do this in spades . Give them about 250 hours of playing music to break in properly . If you want somthing a little more warm the Mundorf silv/gold in oils would be the ticket . I have no experience with the soniccrafts .

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 5 Jun 2008, 01:38 pm
:roll:

Note to Jon - Still don't have my K40's in , it's been over 4 weeks now  :cry: After reading your review  i'd really like to see them arrive .

Joey B.

Which eBay vendor did you buy from? 

Be patient it may take 6 weeks. Mail is slow from Russia.   aa

Thanks Les . Their website sez delivery in 10-17 days . Thanks for the reality update  :o

I'm just trying to slightly warm up my system by changing the couplers in my NOS/DAC .I fully expect that After breakin and serious auditioning That I'll put the mundorf silv/oils back in .  8)

I've read so many rave reviews of the k40's on the Asylum , I just had to try em .  :drool:

My system is really fluid and musical (in a good sense) right now . My only drawback is bright recording sound slightly bright . Great recordings sound very in the room , realistic , and natural . aa  :rock: :dance: :hyper:

Thanks Again
Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: toobluvr on 5 Jun 2008, 06:28 pm


Mundorf Silv/oils do this in spades . Give them about 250 hours of playing music to break in properly . If you want somthing a little more warm the Mundorf silv/gold in oils would be the ticket . I have no experience with the soniccrafts .

Joey B.

Thanks for the insight, Joey.  Much appreciated!
 :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 5 Jun 2008, 06:31 pm


hmmmmmmm....now which ones to put into my Dodd 120 monos?

Aside from Caps:
have you tried different tubes... I have dodd 120 mono's as well and am quite happy keeping the stock tubes if I did have to swap these out I would go with the mundorfs
Silver






Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: toobluvr on 5 Jun 2008, 06:55 pm


hmmmmmmm....now which ones to put into my Dodd 120 monos?

Aside from Caps:
have you tried different tubes... I have dodd 120 mono's as well and am quite happy keeping the stock tubes if I did have to swap these out I would go with the mundorfs
Silver



Hi....Yes, I have rolled a few tubes.

I much prefer the Svetlana "flying C" logo EL34 to the stock JJ E34L.
The JJ is dynamic and transparent, but I find it a bit dry in this amp.
(Funny, cause it is quite nice in my friend's Vista EL34 amp.)
The Svets are a bit rounder, wetter and fuller, and provide a nice spacious sound.
Probably a bit softer than the JJ.

For small signal I have tried late 50's TungSol 5687, and GE 7044.
I prefer the latter.  The TungSol are very linear and extended, but are lacking in
liquidity and midrange bloom.  They sound a bit "solid statish" to me.
To my ears the GE 7044 are richer and just overall more musical.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 5 Jun 2008, 07:02 pm
Try some kt 77 for output tubes if you havent already
The winged c el 34 are nice as well

I agree with you on the ge 7044 try putting one of them herbie tube dampers on the centre tube and let us know the results
Title: Take off alu body from ft3
Post by: McLanz on 7 Jun 2008, 06:36 pm
Hi !!
I use those FT3s too. But I'm scared destroying them:

I would like to take of their body made of a alumium tube. This should even gain a bit more ... aa

Did anybody have some expierence with opening such russian teflon caps??

I once opended a so called metall - glass sealed PIO made in russia.

But there was no glass body...I did it with my lathe.  I opened of the metall body carefully but there wasn't anything sealed by glass -- just the foils and oil came out....BTW the alumium oxidated within moments!! I wasn't able to see it after some min. it just look like I had "paper" in my hands..


Would be very interesting to fill them with that liquid...


The caps orientation makes a lot!! I change two offour in my amp and gained more dnamic sound again. But some harshness too ---But overall it's more precise and has more "shape"

greets Jochen
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 17 Jun 2008, 05:55 am
Opening the FT3 caps is real easy.  The aluminum shell tears like a soda can.  Then it's a matter of cutting off the exposed aluminum foil from the steel post once the body is torn away.  I just twisted the extruding aluminum ends together and wound wire around it.  I also wrapped the cap with stretchy packaging tape, which is actually a pretty good dielectric from what I've read.  I should probably get some small brass machine screws and nuts to attach the wire permanently.  If anyone has a better method of attaching aluminum to wire, please let me know. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: lowrider on 19 Jun 2008, 07:45 am
If you find a pair of K42Y-2, please test them, I would like to know how do they compare with K40Y-9 and FT3...

Thanks for the nice work done here...  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 23 Jun 2008, 06:31 pm
It's been an interesting time since I last posted this thread . My caps came in from rutubes , they sent me k42's instead of k40's . I'm trying to get them switched to what I ordered .

I also had a Massive Heart attack on 6-6-08 and spent 5 days in the ccu ,  4 blockages ,2 stents and 1 more to go in a few weeks . The had to shock me back 3 times (defib is a bitch).

Suddenly , I have less interest in the last nuance of reproduced music and more in developing a more healthy lifesyle . I'm sure the quest for better sound will eventially resume , But right now I would rather play with the grandkids or kiss my wife .

Joey B
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Jun 2008, 06:38 pm
It's been an interesting time since I last posted this thread . My caps came in from rutubes , they sent me k42's instead of k40's . I'm trying to get them switched to what I ordered .

I also had a Massive Heart attack on 6-6-08 and spent 5 days in the ccu ,  4 blockages ,2 stents and 1 more to go in a few weeks . The had to shock me back 3 times (defib is a bitch).

Suddenly , I have less interest in the last nuance of reproduced music and more in developing a more healthy lifesyle . I'm sure the quest for better sound will eventially resume , But right now I would rather play with the grandkids or kiss my wife .

Joey B

Dang.  Good luck with your recovery and make sure to take that Plavix!

Your health really is the most important thing..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 24 Jun 2008, 09:08 pm
THanks Jon !

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: lowrider on 26 Jun 2008, 11:24 am
Good luck Joey,

This is only an hobby, should be quite low among life's priorities...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bpape on 26 Jun 2008, 11:34 am
Wow  :o

Take care of yourself. 

Bryan
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 27 Jun 2008, 03:24 pm
Good luck Joey,

This is only an hobby, should be quite low among life's priorities...

Thank you Antonio

I'm finding , it's all about balance . No Reply from Rutubes on the k40's .  :lol: Did I really think they would respond ? :duh: The old Joe would be plenty angry , the new Joe shrugs , it's not that important . Think I'll go do that relaxation thingy . :D

Joey B
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: lowrider on 27 Jun 2008, 03:55 pm
I use K42 coupling caps recommended by Machmat, he likes them more than K40 for coupling, more lively, I also have K40 on other places, but different sizes, so cannot compare...

Anyway, try the K42, maybe you will have a pleasant surprise, I like mine...  :wink:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Jul 2008, 02:56 am
This whole cap comparison made publication on enjoythemusic!
Capacitor Musings Article By Jon L DIY Audio Kits Reviews (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0708/capacitor1.htm)

That's not the end, though, since I now have some more interesting caps to test, including Epcos polypropylene in oil, Dynamicap, liquid-teflon injected Russian K72 caps, Penta Labs teflon caps, etc.  More to be posted in the coming weeks :)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Scott F. on 1 Jul 2008, 03:19 am
Nice job Jon, Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 1 Jul 2008, 08:46 am
very nice Jon and also you inaugurate the very first number of the new DIY magazine.  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 10 Jul 2008, 04:03 am
Epcos (Siemens Matsushita) MKV B25834 polypropylene in oil capacitor

(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7338/img6232yf5.jpg)

Epcos was founded by Siemens Matsushita, who sold all its interests in 2006.  MKV B25834 is a polypropylene in oil cap like the Siemens MKV radial capacitor talked about previously.  Mundorf silver/oil also happens to be polypropylene in oil, so it was not a great surprise that Epcos sounded somewhat similar to Mundorf silver/oil when directly substituted in Mundorf’s place.  Not that they sounded the same, mind you, but both shared a sense of liquidity and grace, which helped music just flow effortlessly. 

Compared to silver/oil, Epcos had a bit more richness to voices and even more apparent smoothness in the upper-midrange region, but it conceded some sheer resolution and attack.  Silver/oil sounded more like a “modern” film capacitor while Epcos leaned more in the direction of paper-in-oil caps without overt darkness or lack of resolution.  I was especially glad to observe Epcos not to possess overly rounded or slow bass like some paper-in-oils can. 

The Epcos, not surprisingly, sounds VERY much like the Siemens MKV polypropylene in oil capacitor I described earlier.  Both sound balanced, if not extraordinarily extended or obviously “airy” up top.  Human voices have fluidity, richness, and sparkling liveliness that’s so endearing.  If you are a die-hard Teflon or polystyrene fan, you will likely call these poly oil caps a bit slower and not as lit-up, but the fans of the poly oils will call it the opposite. 

A great strategy is to use the Epcos with something like Russian K72 teflon cap somewhere else in the component.  K72’s enthusiastic, bold, slightly upper-midrange-centric sound signature complements the ease of Epcos very well while lending the whole package a dollop of Teflon resolution.  This combo sounds mighty nice, and I must thank “dweekie” for pointing me to these Epcos capacitors.


Fluorinert-Injected Russian K72 Teflon capacitor

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9273/img6229eg5.jpg)

Fluorinert is an electrically insulating, inert perfluorocarbon fluid developed by 3M as electronics coolant that some have called “liquid teflon.” These K72 caps were injected with Fluorinert by “Serengetiplains,” who was gracious enough to let me try them. Fluorinert K72 and regular K72 do sound different, but not night-and-day different.  After all, K72 possesses a very unique and distinct sound one can recognize from a mile away. 

What Fluorinert does seem to do is smooth out the upper ranges somewhat while subduing the vividness and spice a dash.  For those who feel K72 is way too forward and brash for their tastes (I don’t...much), this will bring a welcome change, especially if your system has too much sibilance with the stock K72.  The changes brought on by Fluorinert remind me of the sort of changes one hears when applying damping material to equipment chassis.  In fact, the changes are in the similar direction as when I applied EAR isodamp material to the outside of the K72, though Fluorinert seems to have even greater effect.

There are two issues with Fluorinert K72.  One, it is not commercially available, so you have to either DIY it yourself or ask someone to make and sell it to you.  Second, as one may guess from my description, Fluorinert does decrease the apparent upper-air sparkle and a certain “flair” of the stock K72 somewhat.  If your personal tastes or your equipment fancies to such personality of stock K72, then Fluorinert may not necessarily sound “better” to you, proving once again YMMV, etc. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: slbender on 10 Jul 2008, 08:20 am
Hey Joey - So True. Only a hobby.

Good luck with keeping Stress Free and Healthy...

They say that music sooths the savage beast ( or breast ).  Well either way, listen to more classical for a better peace of mind. 

( and read one or two of Kevin Trudeau's books.... Natural Cures "They" don't want you to know about... (or More Natural Cures Revealed) ... might help you in some ways.


-Steven L. Bender 


Good luck Joey,

This is only an hobby, should be quite low among life's priorities...

Thank you Antonio

I'm finding , it's all about balance . No Reply from Rutubes on the k40's .  :lol: Did I really think they would respond ? :duh: The old Joe would be plenty angry , the new Joe shrugs , it's not that important . Think I'll go do that relaxation thingy . :D

Joey B
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: slbender on 10 Jul 2008, 08:58 am
Getting back to the sound, mainly in the bass, well this is dependent on the circuitry as well as the cap...

For instance, lets take an input cap... in a tube circuit with a 250K ohm Input Z.  Using a 0.015uF teflon cap we plug in the circuits math: 1 divided by 2 times pi times R times C. so for the 0.015uF we get an Fo -3dB point of: 42.44 Hz. which means you will be 9 dB down at ~21 Hz.  For a larger cap say a 0.1uF we get Fo = 6.36 Hz.  So the smaller cap would have less bass or less deep bass in a comparison, due to value and sound different in the midbass for reasons of value, not cap topology or construction.

So yeah, comparisons between caps of dissimilar values is problematic in that  due to phase differences which extend upwards by 10 times the Fo frequency, whereas the bass and midbass would be affected for the smaller value 0.015uF cap, and only the bass end is affected by cap effects and topology or construction for the larger 0.1uF cap.

Now using these two caps in parallel or say a 0.015uF teflon cap and a 0.1 polypropylene (or paper in oil) might be the best combination, getting the best parts of both construction types.  YMMV.


-Steven

BTW -- Two 0.1's in Series nets you 0.050uF very close to 0.056uF.

Russian FT3 Teflon Capacitor
Russian K72 Teflon Capacitor

Probably the most hyped AND maligned cap out there.  Some praise it while others despise it and write it off completely.  It is my understanding that FT3 and K72 caps are internally the same.

FT3 uses aluminum casing and thin tabs as leadouts while K72 uses thicker steel casing with solid poles as leadouts.  FT3 is glass-encapsulated while K72 is hermetically sealed, and due to the thick steel case, K72 is even heavier than FT3. 

One huge caveat to comparing K72 and FT3 is that the largest value of K72 available seems to be 0.056uF, while FT3 is predominantly available in 0.1 and 0.22uF.  My loaned K72 was the customary 0.056uF and FT3 0.22uF, and yes, the larger cap is “supposed” to be more bassy.  Lo and behold, FT3 does seem to be a little richer in the bass region; however, it was not a huge difference, and there is no way to tell how much of this is due to the uF difference or just the way these caps sound.  This cannot be answered today b/c K72 does not come in 0.1 or 0.22uF and FT3 does not come in 0.056uF. 

These caps do sound similar, but after doing A-B-A-B comparisons using music with and without bass, I can say they do have differences.  K72 adds a pinch of spice and “kick” to the proceedings.  Middle midrange to somewhere in upper midrange seems to sound bit more obviously “detailed” with K72; this leads to a little more tension in the listener’s shoulders when playing poorly-recorded material, i.e. the vast majority of today’s compressed and hotly EQ’d modern fare.  Some may even call it extra grain, glaze, or hardness compared to FT3’s relative softer rendering.  However, with clean recordings, I can see some people even preferring K72 for its more assertive, forward stance.  Combining that little highlighting with a bit tighter control, K72 comes across as hair more dynamic and fun.  Which Teflon cap should you purchase?  Well, both are cheap enough that I think you should try both, but do consider if you wish for a little more smoothness vs. forwardness from current setup.

P.S.  When you tap the stiff steel case of K72, you can hear and feel a hollow “ping” resonance.  I tried applying a strip of EAR Isodamp material, covering about 1/3 of the surface area, which attenuated the sparkle and “detail” just a tad.  I’m not saying one is better than the other, but depending on your tastes, a bit of damping may have a role. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 10 Jul 2008, 01:33 pm
Hello Jon,
 Nice write-up on ETM. I would have to say I agree with 95% of everything you wrote about the capacitors I have experience with which is all of them other than the Russians. The other 5% is simply due to subjective opion and even moreso different applications.

 I will be eager to hear your thoughts on the Penta Labs Teflon caps. A few years back, I had the two designers come to my shop and pay me a visit in person with a handfull of these before they even started production and were still under a different name. They wanted me to evaluate them.

I won't comment on them (don't read into that too deep) as they may have changed a bit since the original prototypes. The only thing I will say is that they were very similar to one of the other Teflon caps in Jon's writings.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 10 Jul 2008, 09:35 pm
Hello Jon,
 Nice write-up on ETM. I would have to say I agree with 95% of everything you wrote about the capacitors I have experience with which is all of them other than the Russians. The other 5% is simply due to subjective opion and even moreso different applications.

 I will be eager to hear your thoughts on the Penta Labs Teflon caps. A few years back, I had the two designers come to my shop and pay me a visit in person with a handfull of these before they even started production and were still under a different name. They wanted me to evaluate them.

I won't comment on them (don't read into that too deep) as they may have changed a bit since the original prototypes. The only thing I will say is that they were very similar to one of the other Teflon caps in Jon's writings.

95%?  That's pretty good b/c I can't hardly agree with my own impressions 95% of the time  :green:

The Penta Labs teflon caps are simply huge, but it'll be interesting.

What's even more interesting is I now have some Audience Aura-T teflon caps strapped to my cap cooker  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 10 Jul 2008, 09:44 pm
Quote
95%?  That's pretty good b/c I can't hardly agree with my own impressions 95% of the time 


I know the feeling Jon. You're not alone. :duh:

Quote
What's even more interesting is I now have some Audience Aura-T teflon caps strapped to my cap cooker


 I was wondering about them as well. Audience was in constant contact with me during their R&D on this cap but never had more than one value of any given value I could use so I never did hear these. I will continue to watch this thread as you continue your quest.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: serengetiplains on 11 Jul 2008, 12:19 am
Fluorinert-Injected Russian K72 Teflon capacitor

What Fluorinert does seem to do is smooth out the upper ranges somewhat while subduing the vividness and spice a dash.  For those who feel K72 is way too forward and brash for their tastes (I don’t...much), this will bring a welcome change, especially if your system has too much sibilance with the stock K72.  The changes brought on by Fluorinert remind me of the sort of changes one hears when applying damping material to equipment chassis.  In fact, the changes are in the similar direction as when I applied EAR isodamp material to the outside of the K72, though Fluorinert seems to have even greater effect.


Jon, my experience of these capacitors parallels yours.  The Fluorinert quite evidently damps a certain high frequency element, included in which, IME, is sibilance, digititis, other nasties and possibly a bit of desireable sparkle.  I did very careful A/B listening tests to these caps against V-Cap teflons and found the Fluorinerts, interestingly, to resolve better ... by a small measure: clearer dynamics, less smearing, greater see-into, more clearly delineated detail.  The A/B tests were 10-30 second repeating segments using iTunes, Empirical Audio USB gear, Tripath and tube amps and nearfield monitors.  I concluded from these tests that the missing HF component was other than that required for the type of resolution differences I heard.  Also interestingly, I heard similar results using Fluorinert-in-paper.

I currently am developing a porous teflon / Fluorinert capacitor, not for commercial sale, using copper plate material.  The K72 version was intriguing enough to green light this experiment.  Should be interesting.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: serengetiplains on 11 Jul 2008, 12:21 am
By the way, the (IME) better resolving characteristics of the Fluorinert caps also made sense in that Fluorinert has a considerably lower (10%) k than teflon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 11 Jul 2008, 03:40 pm
I didn't realize when I sent the caps over that some MKV's were already tested.  So far, I only know one consistent source for the MKV B25834 caps, and it is http://www.buerklin.com/.

I think they are a good value for higher capacitance caps, but at lower capacitance, it seems the Mundorf may be cheaper to obtain.  They are certeinly worth a try for speaker crossovers.  Peter Daniels of Audiosector has stated several times on diyaudio that these are his preffered crossover caps, and he has quite a collection of caps under his belt. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 17 Jul 2008, 11:55 pm
Penta Labs TFT Teflon Capacitor

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4935/img6236ev0.jpg)

Who is Penta Labs?  I’ve heard the name in the past, but mostly in relation to Penta Labs tubes.  According to their website, “Penta Laboratories is a Manufacturer and Distributor of vacuum tubes, capacitors and electron tubes for Broadcast, Industrial, Marine and Avionics applications worldwide.”  They also make a teflon capacitor which I am including here, but this is for general interest only as the Penta cap available  to me falls somewhere between my small and large reference capacitance range. 

In comparison to Russian Teflon capacitors, especially the K72 and Fluorinert K72, Penta initially comes across as smoother and more forgiving but also with less obvious sparkling detail and dynamic pop.  However, Penta seems to take forever to “settle into” a spot after soldering (even after long burn-in before soldering), so continue listening, and one realizes certain things just sound more “right,” especially the piano and other instruments that have significant extreme high-frequency harmonic content. These seem to have finer sonic pixels compared to Russian teflons, but each pixel is not as lit-up, if you can picture that.  Yet there’s no denying they have tons of resolution and purity, so the combination of supple richness and resolution forces you to keep listening to music.  In fact, Penta Labs kind of reminds me of that denser, richer, more elegant school of Teflon sound possessed by Sonicap Platinum capacitors.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tanchiro58 on 18 Jul 2008, 12:35 am
Quote
Compared to silver/oil, Epcos had a bit more richness to voices and even more apparent smoothness in the upper-midrange region, but it conceded some sheer resolution and attack.  Silver/oil sounded more like a “modern” film capacitor while Epcos leaned more in the direction of paper-in-oil caps without overt darkness or lack of resolution.  I was especially glad to observe Epcos not to possess overly rounded or slow bass like some paper-in-oils can.

The Epcos, not surprisingly, sounds VERY much like the Siemens MKV polypropylene in oil capacitor I described earlier.  Both sound balanced, if not extraordinarily extended or obviously “airy” up top.  Human voices have fluidity, richness, and sparkling liveliness that’s so endearing.  If you are a die-hard Teflon or polystyrene fan, you will likely call these poly oil caps a bit slower and not as lit-up, but the fans of the poly oils will call it the opposite.

I just got a Teac Tripath amp with Epcos caps. It is sounding extremely better than other caps in oil and metalized polypropylene just like JonL described.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 18 Jul 2008, 02:20 pm
Hi Jon.....and others.
 To my knowledge, the Penta Caps are still manufactured by Custom Capacitors Electronics here in New York   http://www.customelec.com/ (http://www.customelec.com/).

The capacitors I still have here still have the original "Custom Capacitors" logo on them. They were some original beta samples. I could be wrong but maybe they are OEM manufacturing them.

 My first experience with them was a customer that spoke with the company and had some sent to me (with the Penta name on them) to be installed into a custom tube headphone preamplifier modification. If I remember correctly, they were .22uF and used in the coupling positions. The customer was very happy with the results.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 18 Jul 2008, 04:29 pm
double post
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 18 Jul 2008, 04:30 pm
Hi Jon.....and others.
 To my knowledge, the Penta Caps are still manufactured by Custom Capacitors Electronics here in New York   http://www.customelec.com/ (http://www.customelec.com/).

The capacitors I still have here still have the original "Custom Capacitors" logo on them. They were some original beta samples. I could be wrong but maybe they are OEM manufacturing them.

 My first experience with them was a customer that spoke with the company and had some sent to me (with the Penta name on them) to be installed into a custom tube headphone preamplifier modification. If I remember correctly, they were .22uF and used in the coupling positions. The customer was very happy with the results.

Thanks for the info.  Judging from the materials on their website, Penata teflon uses tetrafluoroethylene (TFE) film and aluminum foil, which makes perfect sense since I seem to notice a consistent sonic pattern with aluminum foil teflon caps and tin foil teflon caps, like VH Teflons.  Based on that, Aura-T teflons I am currently listening to probably is tin foil...

(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7505/gr120852fb7963fsp9.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 18 Jul 2008, 08:18 pm
Audience Aura-T Teflon Capacitor

(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6562/img6231jh9.jpg)

Oh, boy, does this ever stop?  It was almost easier back in the day when you basically had only one Teflon capacitor to choose from, the Relcap TFT Teflon capacitor, which is a fine capacitor.  Having lived with many different Teflon capacitors, I get the impression that roughly 2 general “flavors” exist among the Teflon capacitors available today.  One I would call “electrostat flavor” and the other “cone flavor” because the former group reminds me of a great electrostat speaker while the latter reminds me of a great dynamic cone speaker.  Formerly, only the VH Teflon belonged to the electrostat flavor while the Russian K72, FT3, Sonicap Platinum, and Penta Labs belonged to the cone flavor. 

Well, now the Aura-T joins the VH Teflon in the electrostat flavor.  These caps set themselves apart from the others by having an almost impossibly ethereal, pure, and extended top-end with endless decay like only a good electrostat can.  Sound has a see-through transparency and zero veil, and there’s not a spec of dirt, grime, grit on that window.  It’s possible some people’s tastes may prefer a less see-through, more tactile density like a good dynamic speaker can provide, but there’s no question the ‘stat camp resolves more information.

The cone flavor Teflon caps have a more forward midrange presentation compared to mid-hall perspective of VH and Aura-T.  Some would call them “too forward,” but this combined with less-see-through boldness can make for some *very* involving musical fun.  No, these don’t have as much forever-decaying, absolutly feather-sweet extension and elegance, but in the right setup and personal tastes, I can’t blame you if you said you preferred this school of sound. 

Now, somebody must be wondering, “so which is better, VH or Aura-T?”  First of all, I am already using the most-resolving transducer I know of (HE audio ‘stat) half an inch away from my ears to get rid of any room interactions that will muddy up evaluations using speakers.  Even then, I would not bet any of my hard-earned money on reliably telling them apart most of the time. 

If somebody had a gun to my head, I *might* mutter Aura-T may possibly have a thin hair’s worth more sparkle and VH Teflon may have gnat’s fart’s worth more midrange warmth.  I’m sure to some people that hair and fart will be a big deal in their preferences, but please don’t be using language like A “blows away” B.  Really...
Title: Penta Caps
Post by: serengetiplains on 18 Jul 2008, 09:24 pm
Jon, the Penta Caps are, as noted, manufactured by Custom Electronics in Oneata, NY.  The caps I sent you were tin foil plate caps + then best quality teflon ("shaved" according to CustElec).

Custom Electronics bought Component Research Corporation goods sold on the latter's bankruptcy.  These goods included teflon winding machines etc. which, for their part, augmented Custom Electronics' teflon cap manufacturing facilities.  Just some useless information for you.   :roll:
Title: Re: Penta Caps
Post by: Jon L on 18 Jul 2008, 10:05 pm
Jon, the Penta Caps are, as noted, manufactured by Custom Electronics in Oneata, NY.  The caps I sent you were tin foil plate caps + then best quality teflon ("shaved" according to CustElec).

Custom Electronics bought Component Research Corporation goods sold on the latter's bankruptcy.  These goods included teflon winding machines etc. which, for their part, augmented Custom Electronics' teflon cap manufacturing facilities.  Just some useless information for you.   :roll:

Interesting.  How does one go about buying some of these caps?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: serengetiplains on 18 Jul 2008, 11:31 pm
I was dealing with Michael Schulte.  His email is:

mschulte(at)email.customelec.com

A different email address is listed for him on the contacts page for CEI:

http://www.customelec.com/contacts.htm

Their capacitors are expensive, though no more, IIRC, than V-Caps or Auras.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 21 Jul 2008, 02:00 am
Russian SSG-3 silver mica capacitor

(http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/3262/img6230an0.jpg)

These 1% tolerance silver mica capacitors are another example of overbuilt, tank-like Russian new-old-stock capacitors.  The big ones like these can have more than 0.1uF capacitance fit for use in coupling duties, and indeed they are an excellent capacitor.  These sound different from other capacitors such as polypropylens, polystyrenes, teflons, PIO’s, etc in that they don’t have the stereotypical polypropylene harshness, polystyrene dryness, Teflon slippery polish, or PIO roundness.  Silver mica’s have a reputation for being very detailed but “bright” and lacking in bass, but these large silver mica’s had plenty of bass and NO hardness at all.  Their tonal balance cannot ever be called dark because they are very airy and illuminated as if with soft white light bulbs; these are perfect for those who like open, airy top-end that’s not extra-hard or etched, perfect for recordings that have spitty, hard upper ranges.  They have an effect akin to turning up the “brightness” control a notch while turning down the “contrast” a notch in terms of video displays. 

These have such feathery, extended highs that almost makes Mundorf gold/silver seem a bit less open up top.  Not bad for a $5 capacitor, so what’s the caveat?  Unfortunately for the SSG-3, I’ve been listening to some of the best Teflon capacitors of late, and compared to the good teflons, the silver mica’s don’t quite have the stop-dead-in-your tracks resolution and definition, especially in the midrange.  Compared to teflons, SSG-3 is a tad more laid-back and softer in the midrange, and the bass, while impactful, is not quite bounce-rain-off-the-drumskin tight.  Still, I can see a lot of people being quite happy with these silver mica’s, especially if used in equipment that leans in opposite sonic directions or if your tastes cotton to the open, airy, feathery, smooth sound.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: twystd on 22 Jul 2008, 12:52 am
Jon

Glad you liked these things, I think they're about the best bang for the buck in the audiophool world. I usually don't use cap coupling, as I prefer either direct or transformer coupling, but when I do, these have become my cap of choice. I can't justify the bucks for the high dollar teflons, besides, I find topology and implementation way more important. Don't even get me started on power supplies!;^) I think the time, effort, and objectivity you put into this is a real service to the DIY community, as the Aussies say, Good on ya mate!

twystd :thumb: 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: randytsuch on 22 Jul 2008, 02:00 am
Hi Jon
Not sure if you know about this, so I thought I would share it.

I was searching for more info on those big Mica's, and I came across this thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=953144#post953144 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=953144#post953144)

Google can do a rough translation to the linked page, but the guy basically skinned a Russian Teflon cap.

If you keep reading the thread, there is more infomation about skinning Russian caps. 

Since I have some from Ebay, I am going to have to try this sometime when I get a chance.

Randy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Jul 2008, 03:06 am
Hi Jon
Not sure if you know about this, so I thought I would share it.

I was searching for more info on those big Mica's, and I came across this thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=953144#post953144 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=953144#post953144)

Google can do a rough translation to the linked page, but the guy basically skinned a Russian Teflon cap.

If you keep reading the thread, there is more infomation about skinning Russian caps. 

Since I have some from Ebay, I am going to have to try this sometime when I get a chance.

Randy

Oh, there are lots of different things you can do to the Russian caps.  The true limiting factor is going to be the size of the things, so make sure you measure out the room you have before ordering.  For example, the 0.1uF K72 teflons are truly ginormous for a 0.1uF cap. 

Another nice cap is the Dynamicap-E (for "electronics"), which I'm currently comparing to others...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: undertow on 23 Jul 2008, 04:07 am
Audio Note Copper? Duelund VSF anybody? Yes these are getting into the ridiculous price range even beyond some here, however very curious as to how these will perform, I have seen much on how duelund is possibly the superior loudspeaker caps, better be for the money, however will they work in low voltage applications electronics just as well?

Also the audio note, copper version, how about these vs. Mundorf SIO or S/GO?And vs. the duelunds for that matter? Currently using sonicaps as a bypass on Jantzen superior caps.. Killer stack, better than Mundorf SIO I was originally using, just a tad faster, less distortion, much stronger bass... Whos got the goods on these 2 other exotic caps I speak?

Needed for Preamp output caps, and possibly Horn tweeter crossover cap... I might go with AN Cu caps(audio note) on the preamp, and Duelund for the horn ....But really have very little info on either accept when they do come up seem to take the cake even over the top 2 always mentioned, mundorf & VH

I realize application will vary, but these gotta be great caps, just not sure if they will be the best in the positions I chose.. By the way the main thing I am not too keen on going teflon again is they do have some difficulty with a not so good recording, and also do always have a pretty brick wall effect in really making things very in your face..... But the sonicaps are not noticed in current application as they have a very small part in a single bypass cap, works wonder for speed and powerful bass, I am just looking to go into a single cap that will do it all the same or slightly better.

Thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 23 Jul 2008, 12:19 pm
Most audio devices have more than one pole point (input, feedback, output, etc) often set by capacitor values.

Good design requires that the pole points do not overlap as this can cause instability.

Random changing in capacitor values will change the relationship of pole points in the amp or preamp.  They will drive pole points closer together (bad) or further apart (good).  Its kind of like throwing rocks into a calm pond.  The ripples will do strange things, even occasionally creating "rouge waves".

Not tracking values when doing capacitor construction listening tests overlooks significant audio effects caused by the changing of values and pole points, which may actually swamp any other characteristics.

I would feel much more comfortable with capacitor listening tests if the parts substituted were matched to at least 1 percent in value.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 24 Jul 2008, 06:01 am
Dynamicap-E metalized polypropylene capacitor

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/268/img6235lz3.jpg)

Some believe these to be among the best metalized polypropylene caps ever made, and I might have to agree with that, if somewhat reluctantly.  After all, Mundorf silver/oil and gold/silver are still technically “metalized poly” caps, and they do have a magical something that other poly caps lack, including Dynamicaps.  As I have observed before with Vishay poly caps, the Mundorfs have a sense of weight and texture behind the notes, especially in the midrange that keeps music interesting and captivating over longer-term listening.  The better poly caps sound balanced, detailed (though not Teflon-detailed), and all the notes are present and accounted for.  This is true for Dynamicap as well, and it does one better by being probably the most neutrally balanced among the poly caps.  I even dare say it sounds more neutral than something like Mundorf gold/silver or the Russian silver mica’s, so here we have a reasonably affordable capacitor that is quite uncolored, clear, sweet, yet extended.  No wonder companies like Alta Vista Audio is using these caps in Counterpoint gear upgrades, not to mention VMPS offering them as upgrades in their speaker crossovers. 

What about Auricaps?  This is a tough one.  One’s preferences will have a large part in this choice.  Auricaps have a fuller low-midrange to upper-bass presentation compared to Dynamicaps, which makes music richer and more propulsive; they also emulate some of that midrange texturing of Mundorfs.  Dynamicaps counter with subjectively more ruler-flat neutrality with less bloom and thickness, sounding cleaner and clearer.  I would say consider the way your system sounds now and which direction you want to go before choosing one over the other. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Helge Gundersen on 24 Jul 2008, 06:48 am
Jon,

Would you still say the Mundorf silver/gold and the EI output tubes is the best combination in your Almarro A202A MkII?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 24 Jul 2008, 09:39 pm
Jon,

Would you still say the Mundorf silver/gold and the EI output tubes is the best combination in your Almarro A202A MkII?

It's one of the best combinations, but there are many other combo's that are as good or better.  Actually, the bone stock Almarro with stock tubes is darn great, too. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Helge Gundersen on 25 Jul 2008, 07:20 am
Yes, I know. I use the A205A MkII as a headphone amp with AKG 701s (the Almarro is for service now, probably in Japan, as long as it takes). I got hold of a bunch of EI EL84's and thought of changing the capacitor to improve the sound even further, so it's a matter of choosing the potentially best cap (for me).
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 25 Jul 2008, 08:48 pm
Yes, I know. I use the A205A MkII as a headphone amp with AKG 701s (the Almarro is for service now, probably in Japan, as long as it takes). I got hold of a bunch of EI EL84's and thought of changing the capacitor to improve the sound even further, so it's a matter of choosing the potentially best cap (for me).

I just sold my AKG K701, K340, K1000 b/c as great as they were, great electrostat headphones driven via Almarro (via SRD7 MkII adapter) are simply on a totally different planet.  'Stats really lets you hear the minuscule differences between caps, tubes, cables, etc.  Most caps, tubes sounded good-enough via traditional headphones, but with 'stats, the real strengths of tubes like Sylvania 5751 triple mica black plates (for 12AX7 sub) on the Almarro come straight through..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: James Romeyn on 25 Jul 2008, 09:06 pm
Jon
Wow!  Look at the "Read" counter upper right!  It's truly great to read the fruit of your labor.  Hard to believe such work is published free.  Thanks also to John the site administrator for bringing it to us all.   

Have to agree w/ your observations about the Auricaps vs. TRT Dynamicaps; I heard exactly the same as you. 

I don't know the country of origin for the Mundorf, but Americans may take solace that (as far as I know) the TRT Dynamicaps are still made here in the good ole USA by Peter Moncreiff of Tomorrow's Research Today. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: satfrat on 26 Jul 2008, 12:13 am
Dynamicap-E metalized polypropylene capacitor

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/268/img6235lz3.jpg)

Some believe these to be among the best metalized polypropylene caps ever made, and I might have to agree with that, if somewhat reluctantly.  After all, Mundorf silver/oil and gold/silver are still technically “metalized poly” caps, and they do have a magical something that other poly caps lack, including Dynamicaps.  As I have observed before with Vishay poly caps, the Mundorfs have a sense of weight and texture behind the notes, especially in the midrange that keeps music interesting and captivating over longer-term listening.  The better poly caps sound balanced, detailed (though not Teflon-detailed), and all the notes are present and accounted for.  This is true for Dynamicap as well, and it does one better by being probably the most neutrally balanced among the poly caps.  I even dare say it sounds more neutral than something like Mundorf gold/silver or the Russian silver mica’s, so here we have a reasonably affordable capacitor that is quite uncolored, clear, sweet, yet extended.  No wonder companies like Alta Vista Audio is using these caps in Counterpoint gear upgrades, not to mention VMPS offering them as upgrades in their speaker crossovers. 

What about Auricaps?  This is a tough one.  One’s preferences will have a large part in this choice.  Auricaps have a fuller low-midrange to upper-bass presentation compared to Dynamicaps, which makes music richer and more propulsive; they also emulate some of that midrange texturing of Mundorfs.  Dynamicaps counter with subjectively more ruler-flat neutrality with less bloom and thickness, sounding cleaner and clearer.  I would say consider the way your system sounds now and which direction you want to go before choosing one over the other. 


When I had my BPT BP2.5 custom built, I went with DynamiCaps instead of BPT's use of Auricaps in isolating the duplex's from each other. It wasn't an easy switch for Chris Hoff because of the DynamiCaps longer size and because I never tried the AuriCaps, I can't really comment all tho Chris said there probably would be much difference between the 2 capacitors in this type of application but I just wanted to try something different and DynamiCaps were getting some highly regarded comments at the time. What I do know is I love my BP2.5 balanced power conditioner and I have everything in my system going thru it (except the Acoustic Revive RR-77). So when I hear comments like "cleaner and Clearer",,, I smile.  :thumb:


Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 26 Jul 2008, 12:15 am
 I am not sure where the TRT are manufactured for sure (I too think they are still here in the US). The Mundorf components are manufactured and located in Germany.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 26 Jul 2008, 02:39 am
EC MP12 mil-spec metallized polypropylene capacitor

(http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/2813/img6238jb8.jpg)

EC is a military capacitor supplier, and their capacitors appear well-made and heftier than usual.  Unfortunately, these do not sound as good as other, more expensive metalized polypropylene capacitors like Dynamicaps or Auricaps.  In fact, this capacitor is a good example of your stereotypical metalized poly capacitor sound that many audiophiles are trying to improve upon by using other poly caps like Auricaps, Dynamicaps, and Mundorfs. 

No, the music doesn’t suddenly sound broken or anything, but compared to Auricaps, the EC cap seems less rich, less dynamic, less lively, less clear, less involving, and flatter.  Music that I know to be breathy, dynamic, and sparkling lose the magic touch.  Compared to a clear cap like Dynamicap, EC cap sounds veiled as if a thin hazy layer is covering the music.  Many components of reasonable cost use many caps similar to these, which is understandable given the retail pricing structure, but it would be definitely worth it to spend a few more bucks to upgrade at least the critical signal-path caps to something a bit better.  For example, the well-priced Russian FT-3 Teflons really kicked it up a few notches compared to EC caps in terms of resolution, clarity, and liveliness.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 26 Jul 2008, 12:22 pm
Jon,

Have you thought about doing a cheap cap like the Erse pulse? I would love to know how much you are "losing" vs. a standard sonicap or auricap.

Also, prior to switching to the EPCOS MKV in my t-amp I was using Vishay 430p on the input caps. I found them a lot more detailed than the auricaps that were in their prior. It might have been a system synergy thing though because I am using single driver Jordans in a small sealed box.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 26 Jul 2008, 08:00 pm
Jon,

Have you thought about doing a cheap cap like the Erse pulse? I would love to know how much you are "losing" vs. a standard sonicap or auricap.

Also, prior to switching to the EPCOS MKV in my t-amp I was using Vishay 430p on the input caps. I found them a lot more detailed than the auricaps that were in their prior. It might have been a system synergy thing though because I am using single driver Jordans in a small sealed box.

So many caps, so little time...  Erse caps are something I would like to try if run into a pair in the future.  I haven't tried Vishay 430p metallized polyester caps, but I would say the other Japanese metallized polyester cap I have here *seems* to have tons of "detail" but is on the bright/forward side,  without the refined resolution of the better teflon caps, for example..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 28 Jul 2008, 10:48 pm
Another met poly cap that has my interest is the Axon Aeon caps.  They are found in Nelson Pass's B1 buffer.  They are supposedly made by Solen, but I am unsure if it is merely a label change or not.  Anyone have any experience with these caps?   http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=axoncap
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Frihed91 on 30 Jul 2008, 01:30 pm
This is a really interesting thread.  I just bought some Jensen PIO caps that i am going to use as coupling caps.  I would like to have seen them reviewed.  Anyone got any thoughts? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 30 Jul 2008, 02:30 pm
This is a really interesting thread.  I just bought some Jensen PIO caps that i am going to use as coupling caps.  I would like to have seen them reviewed.  Anyone got any thoughts? 

I may be testing some Jensen PIO caps soon  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mgalusha on 30 Jul 2008, 08:57 pm
I may be testing some Jensen PIO caps soon

Jon, I have several sizes of the Jensen pure copper foil in oil with silver leads if you need more. They are sitting in a box so you're welcome to play with them if you like. I have an LCR meter so I can provide specs for them as well.

mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: lowrider on 31 Jul 2008, 07:03 am
It would be great if you tested K42Y-2, machmat likes them better than K40Y-9, but in AA people think the opposite...

I use them as coupling in my amplifier, .1uF 1000V, I have 4 FT-3 that could replace them, but there is not enough room, your test would help decide if they stay, or if I should find room for FT-3, or maybe get K40Y-9 that are a bit smaller...  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: RodMCV on 1 Aug 2008, 05:01 pm
This is one fantastic thread.
Really gets the juices flowing.

What are your thoughts on the new Clarity research on caps and the new series from that, the MR cap and a lower level cap ESA made with less expensive but similar tech.

More then ramblings on the micro resonance of caps influencing sound.
Similar coments with out the research on the Mr.Dueland sight per his design
objective to reduce the microphonics/resonances inherant in capacitors
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 5 Aug 2008, 10:42 pm
Dynamicap-E metalized polypropylene capacitor

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/268/img6235lz3.jpg)

Some believe these to be among the best metalized polypropylene caps ever made, and I might have to agree with that, if somewhat reluctantly...

...What about Auricaps?  This is a tough one.  One’s preferences will have a large part in this choice.  Auricaps have a fuller low-midrange to upper-bass presentation compared to Dynamicaps, which makes music richer and more propulsive; they also emulate some of that midrange texturing of Mundorfs.  Dynamicaps counter with subjectively more ruler-flat neutrality with less bloom and thickness, sounding cleaner and clearer.  I would say consider the way your system sounds now and which direction you want to go before choosing one over the other. 


Yea! You finally got around to testing the Dynamicaps.

I have to agree with you 100% about the Dynamicaps. One thing I would add to your description is that they are truly dynamic... very propulsive and fast.

Five or six years ago, I was in the throes of system tweaking... trying to achieve a fulfilling long-term listening solution. My system at that time consisted of a Rega Planet CD transport feeding a Scott Nixon TubeDac or DIY Paradise Monica II dac. Preamp was a Cary SLP-94L and amplification was a 25watt 47 Labs Gaincard powered by a 50watt Humpty. Speakers were either Lowther DX-3 based or a humble pair of modded Optimus LX-4 Pros.

Part of the tuning involved, of course, coupling cap rolling in the preamp. The key positions were a .1uF interstage cap between the preamp's gain stage and output follower and a 2uF cap at the preamp's output.

I tried the following caps: Auricaps, Dynamicaps, Russian Teflon, VTV Ultratones.

I found Auricaps to be smooth, sweet, and musical, but was consistently bothered by a certain "homogenous" quality in the sound. I'd describe it as a very slight plastic coloration that made instrumental textures sound just slightly "samey." It was slight, but just enough that over the long haul, it irritated me.

Russian teflons I had in for about a week before switching them out. I tried the .1uF Russians in the coupling position with a 2uF Auricaps at the output. The sound was slick... too slick. There was a beguiling quality to it, but I felt that the anticipation and drama inherent to good musical presentation was gone. It seemed like the system couldn't grip the leading edges of notes firmly enough to create a sense of bite or drama. It was like driving a car on really clean, even clay... very slick and fast, but always a slip and slide when you turned the steering wheel. At the same time, the sound stage collapsed dramatically and the presentation sounded really small. Maybe I didn't give them enough a a burn-in, but the sound was not what I wanted.

VTV-Ultratones were a dream... but in the end too much of a good thing. I used a .1uF in the coupling spot and a 2uF Auricap bypassed with a .22uF Ultratone at the output. The sound was rich, involving, emotional, just beautiful. I was consistently moved by the music with the VTV's in the system. I'd lie there in my room listening to music and find myself transported to another place. I really got lost in what I was listening to. Interestingly, shortly after the Ultratones went in, my female roommate at the time, who had no interest whatever in gear or tweaky system concerns, walked by as I was playing some Townes Van Zandt. She commented that the music sounded really wonderful. It was the first time she had ever taken note of the music coming from my system. I had to agree, it was a beautiful, touching presentation. Shortly after, my long-distance girlfriend came to stay for a week and she also commented on how great music sounded over the system (again, she had no interest in gear or system concerns at all). She wanted to know how to turn everything on so she could listen to music while I was at work during the day.

The downfall for the VTV's in my system was that as beautiful and moving as the music was, I would always wish for just a little more pace and propulsiveness. Fast tuneful stuff, while still musical, lacked the drive and excitement it required. Just a little bit, but enough to be a deal-breaker for me.

I still think about putting the Ultratones back into the preamp every now and then, but it would be like eating pot de creme or creme brulee every day. Wonderful, but maybe too much of a good thing.

The Dynamicaps went in after that, and boy was this a change. They weren't as involving as the Ultratones, but in the context of my system they were able to preserve the tube magic of the preamp while infusing music with a really fast, punchy, clear, but sweet quality. The most notable trait compared to the Ultratones or Auricaps was the speed and explosiveness of lower midrange and bass notes. They were at once fast and easy sounding (contrary to Jon's finding, The Dynamicaps were more propulsive than Auricaps in my system).

The Dynamicaps remain in the system as my long-term caps (.1uF Dynamicaps for coupling as well a 2uF Dynamicap output caps) for doing most thing I find important really well. Even though they can't match the Ultratones for sheer involvement and musicality, they provide a satisfying balance for just about all of the music I listen to.

It is, of course, crucial to put this in the context of my system. The Cary SLP-94 uses a compliment of 12au7 for gain stage and follower. These are a fairly soft, warm, and euphonic sounding tube, so I think the fast, clear, more neutral character of the Dynamicap is a synergistic match, here. I could see the Ultratones as the ultimate cap in a preamp with a slightly more aggressive sounding tube.

To this day, I long for that Ultratone magic in my system, but I fear it will be a wonderful but short-lived run. Too bad, I really loved that sound.

Having read through Jon's excellent comparisons, I'd be most interested in trying out the Mundorf Silver/Oils next. Too bad I don't have that tweaking urge I used to. I'll probably get around to it one of these years, though.

Great work, Jon. Thanks.

BTW, The one other cap that was magical in another system I had was the Jensen Copper Foil in Oil caps in an Audio Note Kit One 300B amp. That amp driving a pair of modded Klipsch Heresies was my first truly revelatory experience with a system. The coppers replaced the stock Aluminum Foils, which were good, but not so magical. (Incidentally, these Jensen Copper Foils are what Vinnie Ross chose for the inputs of the Red Wine Sig 30's - not sure what he used for the 30.2, though I suspect that it might be same cap without the orange plastic wrap... just conjecture).

I later tried the Audio Note produced copper body Copper Foil in Oil caps in my Sun Audio SV-300BE, but didn't warm up to them. They didn't come alive. I replaced those with .22uF Ultratones, and the magic returned.

I look forward to your future comparisons.

Best,
KT

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 19 Aug 2008, 06:16 am
Jensen Copper Foil Paper-In-Oil Capacitor

(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2918/img6343dm8.jpg)
Its reputation precedes it, and Jensen PIO capacitors are indeed excellent PIO capacitors.  The word “musical” seems made for it, not by virtue of syrupy romance but by virtue of refined microdynamic texturing and tonality, which allows one to immerse in the music instead of analyzing it.  If you are the type who can easily relax into music when it sounds “good” and be content, then the Jensens are perfect for you because they provide satisfying tonal color, harmonic richness, and smooth sophistication without becoming overly rolled-off, muddy, and slow.  In fact, the upper-midrange to midrange has a lively character without brightness or dryness that is quite attractive indeed.

Compared to Russian K40y PIO, Jensen is simultaneously finer-grained yet smidge less dark, presenting music with seemingly more tonal purity and light.  The Jensen difference is not huge, akin to a soufflé made with eggs beaten a little fluffier and lighter, but both taste like soufflé.  On the other hand, K40y does come across a little more dynamic and denser in tone, so once again, we have choices.

So the oilers are great, but I am surrounded by mountains of capacitors from all around the world.  Compared directly to some stupendous teflons, while not “overly” rolled-off or slow, Jensens *are* a wee bit less extended and slower, relatively speaking.  The leading edges are perhaps not as sharp as a new razor, but it’s not far off.  Bass definition also is not nose-to-nose with teflons or polystyrenes, but I think it’s good enough for me, especially for acoustic music.  Jensens do serve up a tasty, warm, refined midrange, and if that’s one’s preference, one may even say Jensens are a better capacitor than teflons or other film caps. 

-------------------------------------

FT-1 2200 pF Russian Teflon Capacitors  (Bypass)

(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/8381/img6248et9.jpg) 

Jensens and other PIO’s are so good at what they do, it’s natural to feel the need to somehow improve them just a little where they are not state-of-the-art.  I tried to accomplish this by bypassing Jensens with a small bypass Teflon capacitor, the FT-1 Russian capacitor at 2200 pF. 

This does not completely change the sound, and the effects are subtle, but some may find them useful.  The extreme treble does open up some, and triangles and chimes gain a little more definition.  I don’t mean to imply the Jensens suddenly turn into Russian teflons, as they still sound mainly like Jensens.  In my experience, better treble definition tends to lead to subjectively tighter bass signature, and the Jensens’ bass did firm up a trifle. 
So have we created the perfect capacitor here?  Not really.  The original signature charm of Jensens does diminish by a measure, so if you loved Jensens for their billowing, grand, bloomy richness, perhaps you should leave them alone.  If you are still curious, it’s always worth an experiment since these small Russian Teflon capacitors are quite cheap.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mgalusha on 19 Aug 2008, 07:56 pm
Jon, glad the Jensen's were not awful. I tend to agree with your description of them. Using a Teflon bypass on the small ones does tend to take away some of their charm. There is less of this effect with larger values such as a 2.2uF used as an output coupling cap.

Looking forward to your future tests.

mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 22 Aug 2008, 06:56 pm
Russian K40y PIO Capacitor Bypassed with FT-1 Teflon Capacitor

(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7649/img5908ww7.jpg)

After experimenting with bypassing Jensens with small teflons, I thought I would try the bypass with K40y PIO caps as well.  Unlike Jensens, K40y's are very affordable, and if I could improve them just a little bit with just-as-cheap small Russian teflons, that would be something to celebrate. 

Alas, laws of physics apparently wanted to be consistent because the results were similar to when I bypassed the Jensens.  The upper ranges did extend further with added twinkle and sparkle just like with Jensens, but some of the PIO charm was lost at the same time.  Once again, it turns out there is no free lunch or cheap miracles.  Now, downside is not huge by any means, and many people will find this little tradeoff completely acceptable and maybe even unnoticeable, especially in systems that tended to extra bloom and richness to begin with. 

Adding the small teflon bypass is almost like adding a supertweeter to a nice single-driver speaker.  There is more air and twinkle, but some of the super coherence and earthy charm of the single-driver is lost.  The degree of the loss will depend, in both cases, on the specific capacitor/tweeter used as well as the skill(and/or luck) of the implementation as usual, so if you have a lot of time on your hands and many different capacitors of numerous values, I'm sure one can rig up something basically "perfect."  Maybe..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: whubbard on 22 Aug 2008, 09:18 pm
Jon,

I understand that this is a very complicated question, but what has been your 'Favorite' capacitor setup (single or bypassed) thus far?
I know its subjective, and also varries by application, but in general what would your answer be?

Thanks,
West
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 22 Aug 2008, 10:06 pm
Jon,

I understand that this is a very complicated question, but what has been your 'Favorite' capacitor setup (single or bypassed) thus far?
I know its subjective, and also varries by application, but in general what would your answer be?

Thanks,
West

Who knows..  It's all relative, but if I had to get up in the morning and choose one today, I'd probably end up with tin-based teflon capacitor that's way oversized compared to stock...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tomat on 23 Aug 2008, 03:26 pm
Hello All

i have ever been use audio note copper caps and jensen copper too ,audio note have better mdrange reproduction than jensen ,although the top end is slightly roll off ,jensen have more extend & airy top end ,the lower bass of audio note is more deeper ,jensen is more tight and punchy ,the overall audio note looks more glorious and sweet .this just my opinion

thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speakerquest on 25 Aug 2008, 02:56 pm
I don't quite agree with the positive review of the Dynamicaps. I tried them as output caps in my Mapletree (Dr.Peppard) hardwired (silver) preamp (modded with Shinkoh tant resistors, Auricap interstage, highest grade BG caps, NOS tubes etc), and found them slightly muted and lacking in treble sparkle even after burnin. The were highly resolving and neutral, but lacked the magic open quality I was expecting after reading the Altavista review. I changed to Multicap RTX and the treble resolution improved and the sound became more alive. After reading your review of Mundorf SiO I ordered a pair to be used as input caps in a new poweramp that needs some smooth oil cap euphony that might be less evident in a Multicap RTX. Claritycap in the UK has done some research lately (published) and found that the cap self-vibration damping is important, which has led to a couple of new highend film/foil caps that you might interested to test.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 25 Aug 2008, 03:42 pm
I changed to Multicap RTX and the treble resolution improved and the sound became more alive.

Everything is relative, isn't it?  If  your system's resolution and alivenesss is just right with RTX, then it's completely understandable Dynamicaps sound "muted and lacking in treble sparkle" in the same system. 

On the other hand, if things sound right with Dynamicaps, people will say RTX is too dry and maybe even bright..  It really dosn't make one cap "better" than the other.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speakerquest on 26 Aug 2008, 03:12 pm
I absolutely agree about the necessity to choose the right combination of components to acheive a neutral sound. However I would hardly say that my system is dull sounding with silver interconnects and silver speakercables, and Al/Mg tweeters. Of course these are subjective qualities, and it would be wrong to claim that the RTX is "better" than the Dynamicap. I can only say that in my fairly high-end system the RTX was superior to the Dynamicap as preamp output caps, since the Dynamicap clearly had a more flat closed in colored sound in this scenario. Perhaps the Dynamicap would be the better cap in a solidstate system in a room with different room acoustics. I am looking forward to test the Mundorf SiO in my new poweramp, and perhaps I will take the plunge and get Duelund caps for my tweeter crossovers.  :)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 28 Aug 2008, 05:34 am
Jantzen Superior Z-Cap

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/142/img6344rz3.jpg)

Jantzen Audio is a Danish company, and they make three grades of polypropylene capacitors:  Z-Cap, Superior Z-Cap, and Silver Z-Cap.  I am testing the Superior Z-Cap which, like the Silver Z-Cap, has been wound using a “special machine…so that the capasitors become a very tight reel.  This minimizes the inner vibration and keeps microphonic effects as low as possible.”  The ends appear sealed with some sort of resin to keep out moisture, a nice touch, and the overall look and feel are definitely a notch or two above the common polypropylene types. 

There is a bit of “buzz” about Jantzen capacitors out there, and they certainly did not disappoint.  Superior Z-Cap rather reminds me of Dynamicap E, which is one of my favorite polypropylene capacitors.  They share a sense of evenness, balance, and coherence, which means nothing is sticking out like a sore thumb to distract you from the music.  Superior-Z possesses a very smooth, flowing, mid-hall type of personality with no sense of congealing, bloat, raggedness, or bite, yet it is not lacking in detail resolution, especially when compared to something like Claritycap SA.  One of its greatest attributes is the fact it’s difficult to point out things it specifically does “wrong” because it pulls off a great balancing act that serves the music.   

Once again, it’s not fair to compare most polypropylene caps to expensive teflons, but the best of both breeds are more than capable of delivering the music.  Since cost is always an issue, a top-grade polypropylene is certainly a viable way to go in my opinion.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tomat on 28 Aug 2008, 09:30 pm
I don't quite agree with the positive review of the Dynamicaps. I tried them as output caps in my Mapletree (Dr.Peppard) hardwired (silver) preamp (modded with Shinkoh tant resistors, Auricap interstage, highest grade BG caps, NOS tubes etc), and found them slightly muted and lacking in treble sparkle even after burnin. The were highly resolving and neutral, but lacked the magic open quality I was expecting after reading the Altavista review. I changed to Multicap RTX and the treble resolution improved and the sound became more alive. After reading your review of Mundorf SiO I ordered a pair to be used as input caps in a new poweramp that needs some smooth oil cap euphony that might be less evident in a Multicap RTX. Claritycap in the UK has done some research lately (published) and found that the cap self-vibration damping is important, which has led to a couple of new highend film/foil caps that you might interested to test.



Hi
mute & lacking of treble sparkle is from shinkoh tantalum resistor ,try to change with riken rmg or vishay s102 or tx2575 ,they have more extend & airy high frequency

thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speakerquest on 30 Aug 2008, 07:36 pm
I am not so sure about Shinkoh tantalum resistors lacking in treble sparkle. I find them pretty neutral. I have used Rikenohms, TX2352, Dale RN55, and Caddock MK132 in different amps at critical positions and I don't think that any of them lack treble sparkle. I have heard comments about tants sounding "fat", but also some claims that they sounded bright... http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/137474.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: RodMCV on 30 Aug 2008, 07:53 pm
Any one try the Mundorf Supreme new Resistor or the Deuland carbon?
How about the new ClarityCap MR capacitor designed based on resonance reduction data, see claritycap.co.uk?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 31 Aug 2008, 03:39 pm
WIMA MKP10 Polypropylene Capacitor

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1683/12jy8.jpg)

I was absolutely shocked when I received my WIMA MKP10 capacitors.  They are HUGE as seen next to same-capacitance AudioCap Theta and Auricap in the picture.  This German company supplies a lot of capacitors for many high-end companies, and I have seen many red-colored WIMA capacitors inside components; but I don’t remember them being this large.  WIMA MKP10’s claim to fame is their “double-layer” construction:
“The construction principle of the series WIMA MKP 10 consists of a non-metallized dielectric film and an carrier film metallized on both sides acting as electrode. Thanks to the metallization on both sides, the electrical conductivity is considerably improved and the contact surface between the electrodes and the schoopage layer is doubled. This results in better contact and allows for high current and pulse loading capability.”

The reason I am even going into such detail is due to the fact its sound quality easily exceeded my jaded expectations.  It sounded quite bright at first, but after settling down, it presented a nicely-detailed, airy, and sexily breathy sound.  It perhaps does not have 100% of the refinement and sophistication of Dynamicap E or Jantzen Superior Z, but its slightly more forward and breathy sound is a bit more exciting and ear-grabbing.  It’s not overly etched or thin-sounding, either, which you always have to watch out for in cheap metalized poly caps.  I have heard some people complain WIMA lacks bass, but this was not true in my case at all, as its bass was just as good as other good poly caps.  I don’t know how WIMA’s other caps sound, such as MKP4 and FKP, but the 630V MKP10 is a budget-champ!   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 2 Sep 2008, 12:49 am
AudioCap Theta Polypropylene Film and Tin Foil Capacitor

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/12/img6413bp9.jpg)

AudioCap Theta is constructed with polypropylene film and tin foil with gold-plated OFHC leads, and it is very reasonably priced compared to AudioCap PCU, which is polypropylene film and Copper foil and priced accordingly.  I have read AudioCap Thetas being described as lean and clinical in the past, and that’s exactly how they sounded in the beginning.  However, after proper break-in, these things became extraordinarily rich and warm in tone, without any wooly, syrupy sloppiness.  AudioCap Thetas definitely had another notch of detail and resolution in the mid-midrange compared to even the best metallized polypropylene caps, resulting in sumptuously textured and detailed voices; however, the upper-midrange and treble also retained this rich smoothness, which in fact made them sound a touch less open and sparkling compared to metalized poly caps like WIMA.

The longer I listened to AudioCap Theta, I was both more charmed and frustrated at the same time.  Its densitiy of tone and authoritative texturing in the midrange was very tasty, which only highlighted its Achilles’ heel, i.e. somewhat dark and shut-in upper highs compared to the best. Hoping for luck, I tried bypassing the AudioCap Theta with FT-1 Russian teflons 1/10th it’s value.  Even though both caps were burned-in, the resulting sound was initially horrid:  overly bright, grating, and just amusical. 

Knowing these things take time, even with previously used caps, I ran them for some time, and like magic, everything fell into place.  The combination was at once rich, textured, and warm, yet with intact high-frequency leading edge detail and sparkle.  This casserole of sorts yielded very, very satisfying results, working much better than when I bypassed oil caps with small Teflon caps.  I must presume that oil caps and teflon caps are simply too different to gel coherently; combining more similar film caps really hit on something wonderful here.     

In fact, to check my own impressions, I put back one of my expensive Teflon references; and I honestly can’t tell you I definitely prefer the teflons.  The teflons still have a smidge more see-through transparency and smoother liquidity, but the Theta/teflon combo has more weight and texture behind the notes while not giving up overall resolution and punch.  This combo is a definite contender in the right system.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Scott F. on 2 Sep 2008, 02:21 am
WIMA MKP10 Polypropylene Capacitor

<snip>

It’s not overly etched or thin-sounding, either, which you always have to watch out for in cheap metalized poly caps.  I have heard some people complain WIMA lacks bass, but this was not true in my case at all, as its bass was just as good as other good poly caps.  I don’t know how WIMA’s other caps sound, such as MKP4 and FKP, but the 630V MKP10 is a budget-champ!   


Jon,

I'm glad to see I wasn't delusional. I had a Consonance amp here on loan for a while that used the Wimas as the coupling caps. While they took some serious time to break in, when they did, I thought they sounded pretty darned good. I had to do a bit of tube rolling to find the right combination for the amp (and caps) but once I did, I liked them a lot. Like you, I didn't feel that there was anything (major) missing from the music. If somebody is on a tight budget, they shouldn't turn their nose up at the Wimas.

Oh, great tip on bypassing the Thetas with the Russian teflons. I'll have to give that one a try  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 2 Sep 2008, 06:58 am
A month or so ago, I replaced three Sonicap Platinums (.22uf, 400VDC) in each of my tube mono-blocks (Dodd Mono 50s) with AudioCap PCUs and have been really happy I did. A Modwright Truth Sony 9100 (tube rectified), Modwright LS 36.5 and Aural Acoustics Model Bs (with AudioCap Thetas in the crossovers) rounds out the system.

The PCUs are supposedly very warm but I didn't find that. Full and rich, yes; but not woolly or dark in the least. They seem to have even slightly more resolution than the Platinums, without the latter's Teflon character (overly polished, slippery notes). The highs are extended and open; the bass and leading edge detail are clean and well defined and, best of all, the body of notes are realistically textured and even more dimensional. Trailing transients seem a tad bit longer in length as well. All in all, a very nice cap at the same price as the Platinums.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 2 Sep 2008, 11:23 pm
The PCUs are supposedly very warm but I didn't find that. Full and rich, yes; but not woolly or dark in the least. They seem to have even slightly more resolution than the Platinums, without the latter's Teflon character (overly polished, slippery notes). The highs are extended and open; the bass and leading edge detail are clean and well defined and, best of all, the body of notes are realistically textured and even more dimensional. Trailing transients seem a tad bit longer in length as well. All in all, a very nice cap at the same price as the Platinums.

The thing I worry about AudioCap PCU, other than teflon-like price, is the use of copper foils and oxidation.  Jensen gets away with it b/c the oil tends to retard oxidation, but PCU is copper foil wrapped in polypropylene film, so I'd be worried about slow oxidation and sonic degradation over time that you can't see, as slow changes tend to be hard to notice..  Only way to find out is to crack open an older PCU and see  :green:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 3 Sep 2008, 12:41 am

The thing I worry about AudioCap PCU, other than teflon-like price, is the use of copper foils and oxidation.  Jensen gets away with it b/c the oil tends to retard oxidation, but PCU is copper foil wrapped in polypropylene film, so I'd be worried about slow oxidation and sonic degradation over time that you can't see, as slow changes tend to be hard to notice..  Only way to find out is to crack open an older PCU and see  :green:

Interesting. All I know now is that I really like the sound. I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 3 Sep 2008, 07:13 pm

The thing I worry about AudioCap PCU, other than teflon-like price, is the use of copper foils and oxidation.  Jensen gets away with it b/c the oil tends to retard oxidation, but PCU is copper foil wrapped in polypropylene film, so I'd be worried about slow oxidation and sonic degradation over time that you can't see, as slow changes tend to be hard to notice..  Only way to find out is to crack open an older PCU and see  :green:

Interesting. All I know now is that I really like the sound. I guess time will tell.

Actually, I also know Response Audio has used them in some pieces. Bill, could you chime in with your experience on the PCU's longevity?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Audio-fiilis on 12 Sep 2008, 09:33 pm
WIMA MKP10 Polypropylene Capacitor

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1683/12jy8.jpg)

I was absolutely shocked when I received my WIMA MKP10 capacitors.  They are HUGE as seen next to same-capacitance AudioCap Theta and Auricap in the picture.  This German company supplies a lot of capacitors for many high-end companies, and I have seen many red-colored WIMA capacitors inside components; but I don’t remember them being this large.  WIMA MKP10’s claim to fame is their “double-layer” construction:
“The construction principle of the series WIMA MKP 10 consists of a non-metallized dielectric film and an carrier film metallized on both sides acting as electrode. Thanks to the metallization on both sides, the electrical conductivity is considerably improved and the contact surface between the electrodes and the schoopage layer is doubled. This results in better contact and allows for high current and pulse loading capability.”

The reason I am even going into such detail is due to the fact its sound quality easily exceeded my jaded expectations.  It sounded quite bright at first, but after settling down, it presented a nicely-detailed, airy, and sexily breathy sound.  It perhaps does not have 100% of the refinement and sophistication of Dynamicap E or Jantzen Superior Z, but its slightly more forward and breathy sound is a bit more exciting and ear-grabbing.  It’s not overly etched or thin-sounding, either, which you always have to watch out for in cheap metalized poly caps.  I have heard some people complain WIMA lacks bass, but this was not true in my case at all, as its bass was just as good as other good poly caps.  I don’t know how WIMA’s other caps sound, such as MKP4 and FKP, but the 630V MKP10 is a budget-champ!   


Thank God!

The industry standard found it's place in the audiophile world.

Wima has two (2) qualities. It has the capacitance it promises. It also has a low Rs.

Honestly. When trying to find a decent capacitor, measure it. Do not listen because there is a chance the (High End) manufacturer that used the (bad) original cap in your loudspeaker has exploited the properties of the original "cap".

Professionals naver use something like Mundorf. There is no need for that.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doug s. on 13 Sep 2008, 03:26 am
Thank God!

The industry standard found it's place in the audiophile world.

Wima has two (2) qualities. It has the capacitance it promises. It also has a low Rs.

Honestly. When trying to find a decent capacitor, measure it. Do not listen because there is a chance the (High End) manufacturer that used the (bad) original cap in your loudspeaker has exploited the properties of the original "cap".

Professionals naver use something like Mundorf. There is no need for that.
so, if i understand you correctly, you say that, if replacing a cap for an upgrade, you should try to match its actual walue instead of its stated walue?  but, mebbe there's a chance the mfr didn't exploit the actual cap walue, but yust went by the cap's stated walue.  which means you should try both?  hmmm.... 

doug s.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 13 Sep 2008, 03:29 am
I don't use any capacitors at all.  I simply hear the music in my head, directly from God. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: whubbard on 13 Sep 2008, 03:42 pm
I don't use any capacitors at all.  I simply hear the music in my head, directly from God. 

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 14 Sep 2008, 07:41 pm
How about the new ClarityCap MR capacitor designed based on resonance reduction data, see claritycap.co.uk?
I installed a pair in my Tannoy HPD crossovers about 2 weeks ago. 

My first initial impression was, they're tremendous! The .89uf MR is larger than the 17uf Sonic Cap used in my low pass. The 4.7uf MR is just tremendous. If I didn't build a point to point x-over on a piece of MDF, there would be no way I would be able to use these.

First listening impression, right off the bat they seem smoother, less closed in, pianos especially sounded more realistic, and there is slightly better separation. And I don't know if I am imagining things, but there seems to be less floor noise. Now does someone want to give me a loan so I can purchase some for my low pass?  :D 

Now that I probably have 50 hours on them, surprisingly there has been very little change, if any at all.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: lushds on 26 Sep 2008, 06:02 am
hi all,
I'd like to try out those Russian caps in my tube pre as signal output caps; I wonder if the K-40, K-72 and FT-3 types come in values greater than 2.2uf?
I've seen those greenies (K-75) come in higher values; but not for the abovementioned types.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
DS
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: aragon63 on 29 Sep 2008, 02:52 pm
  ---
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 Sep 2008, 04:55 pm
  Hello,

             Have anyone tried Mundorf Silver/Gold  as coupling caps  in SET amps(300b).Currently been  using Russian K 40 PIO.....well,kind of congested,slow &  should I say "oily constipated".It's too smooth & boring .Lots of guys like this soviet capacitor......... not my cup of tea. I would like something with more clarity,sparkle,dynamics & life.Particularly interested in Mundorf S/G(not oil).....so if someone can give me opinion on this one I'll be greatly appreciated .

You  can read about silver/gold here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0

IME it's not easy to match up a 300B SET with the right speaker/system to end up with fast, sparkling, uncongested sound.  It can be done, but very sensitive, fast speakers are required.

If K40y sounds *that* slow and congested, I'm not sure Mundorf silver/gold will be quite that much faster/clearer.  I would look to some of the better teflons.  I think the Aura-T teflons will do what you seek, but oh, the price..  In a pinch, Russian FT-3 Teflons also sounds very fast and sparkly.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: aragon63 on 29 Sep 2008, 05:54 pm
--
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 30 Sep 2008, 01:15 am
Sprague Vitamin Q PIO Capacitor

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3905/img6470zc6.jpg)

Sprague “Vitamin Q” capacitors are a beautiful example of how things used to be manufactured right.  These capacitors are built like a tank and sport a special vitamin Q mineral oil to soak the dielectric; the overbuilt Russian oil caps have nothing on these NOS caps when it comes to build quality.  Almost a cult favorite among DIYers over many years, Vitamin Q’s certainly live up to their reputation for great sound quality. 

After the usual rough period of settling in, Vit Q’s came alive with beautiful tonal color, bags of textural contrast, and a sense of immediacy.  There’s a “wetness” to its presentation that is quite beguiling, yet it’s very detailed and sparkling, definitely not polite or overly dark.  If you find the Jensen copper PIO’s a little too refined and buttery smooth in your system, Vit Q’s might fit in very well instead.  On the other hand, many audiophiles prefer that velvety smooth sound, in which case they will likely prefer something like Jensens.  Both offer more openness and air compared to the denser sound of Russian K40y PIO’s, but all three PIO’s are capable of doing music justice with synergistic placement. 

Previously I tried bypassing the Jensens with small Russian Teflon caps to add a litte more sparkle and contrast, but in the end I decided I prefer the Jensens by itself to preserve its own charms.  I have no such desire to bypass the Vit Q because it seems to have enough contrasty sparkle already.  Vit Q’s don’t sound like good polypropylene caps, Teflon caps, polystyrenes, or anything else, really, but they have a unique, involving character that’s hard not to enjoy. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 1 Oct 2008, 02:26 pm
that thing looks 50 yrs old ; )
can you still buy them?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Oct 2008, 08:17 pm
that thing looks 50 yrs old ; )
can you still buy them?

Well, they *are* that old but work great.  A great place to buy them is another problem altogether, though.  Ebay is always an option, but beware of some sellers that advertise "Vitamin Q Type" capacitors that are not the actual Vit Q's..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speakerquest on 3 Oct 2008, 08:21 am
It is interesting to read your review of the Audiocap Theta, especially since the review on Humble Homemade Hifi is rather bad. Perhaps he didn't wait for the burn-in.. The teflon bypass was obviously a success.  :D I am wondering about the value of the bypass cap. This has been debated before, without any really good advice that I've read. You used a 1/10th value for the bypass cap, but many people use as little as 1/1000th in crossovers (10microF bypassed with 10 nanoF).  I wonder if anyone has experience of trying different valus ?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 Oct 2008, 10:55 pm
It is interesting to read your review of the Audiocap Theta, especially since the review on Humble Homemade Hifi is rather bad. Perhaps he didn't wait for the burn-in.. The teflon bypass was obviously a success.  :D I am wondering about the value of the bypass cap. This has been debated before, without any really good advice that I've read. You used a 1/10th value for the bypass cap, but many people use as little as 1/1000th in crossovers (10microF bypassed with 10 nanoF).  I wonder if anyone has experience of trying different valus ?

I'm finding that my experience differs more from the Humble Hifi experience than from other tests, and I believe this must be due the fact Humble Hifi is testing them in speaker crossover, low-voltage situations whereas I'm using them in high-voltage coupling situations. 

Audiocap Thetas and PCU's get high marks in other tests where they are used in electronics. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 21 Oct 2008, 12:21 pm
It's been an interesting time since I last posted this thread . My caps came in from rutubes , they sent me k42's instead of k40's . I'm trying to get them switched to what I ordered .

I also had a Massive Heart attack on 6-6-08 and spent 5 days in the ccu ,  4 blockages ,2 stents and 1 more to go in a few weeks . The had to shock me back 3 times (defib is a bitch).

Suddenly , I have less interest in the last nuance of reproduced music and more in developing a more healthy lifesyle . I'm sure the quest for better sound will eventially resume , But right now I would rather play with the grandkids or kiss my wife .

Joey B


forgive me for being off track but i am sure it will be short ;)
How is it now going Joey?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 21 Oct 2008, 12:27 pm
Red Wine audio from Vinnie uses a very good warm musical sounding Danish cap But i dont know the name of it.
Vinnie uses it in his amps and preamp
(http://6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine10/5.jpg)

Would be a nice cap to test too?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 21 Oct 2008, 03:51 pm
Would be a nice cap to test too?

Probably not a nice cap to test  :lol:

It's likely a Jensen, but we don't know if it's a regularly available model or a custom model.  The exact model won't be revealed, so it's probably best to leave it alone and carry on with the caps that we know will be readily available for use. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 21 Oct 2008, 04:07 pm
i see when it is custom made you cannot get it anyway
but when it is an commercially available?

On the photo you see no markings but in the unit itself you can see it. But is that ought to be a secret?
 i dont know that is why I ask
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 23 Oct 2008, 04:34 pm
Hi Kyrill

I haven't checked in on this thread in a while . I'm doing pretty good . been back to work for over 2 months .

I had quite a bit of heart muscle damage . I go in for an echocardiogram in a couple of weeks , I'll find out more then .

I didn't get any joy from the Rutube folks , ever . At least it was'nt a huge lotta cash  :scratch:. I'm still running Mundorf sil/oils in my Nos/Dac and Ext. Foreplay III preamp . My Arc high def 100.2 amp was down for 3 1/2 months . (Mostly my fault for not getting it in for repair and waiting to see how contract negotiations were going at work)  :oops:

Thanks Jon for your continued diligence in tracking down high quality caps .

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Oct 2008, 04:53 pm
Hi Kyrill

I had quite a bit of heart muscle damage . I go in for an echocardiogram in a couple of weeks , I'll find out more then .

Thanks Jon for your continued diligence in tracking down high quality caps .

Joey B.

Good luck with the echo, and thanks for the kind words.

Incredibly for me, I haven't had the urge to constantly change caps for a long time now.  The caps I now have in my amps are musical enough and accurate enough for me to simply enjoy great music.  Funny thing is, these caps cost a small fraction of the uber mega $$ caps I have at my disposal  :scratch:

For example, the Audiocap Theta+Russian teflon bypass is fitting my 2A3 SET like a glove, sounding simply ravishing, while the lowly Vitamin Q is holding fort in my EL84 single-ended pentode with its own lovely flavor.  Who would have thunk?? :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 23 Oct 2008, 05:47 pm
I recently used the Russian teflons that I got on the group buy as bypasses in my speakers. I used them first on the tweeter circuit, bypassing Sonicap I's. In a nutshell - wider soundstage, great extension without fatigue, air, grace, texture ... all the good things.


I then tried them as a bypass on the mid/bass driver. Forward sounding, lack of texture, loss of image detail ... not good at all. The whole speaker balance shifted upward and the imaging and soundstaging suffered badly.

So I took them off the mid/bass driver and put a Sonicap II back in as a bypass and all is well in speakerland again.

Caveat Emptor on where you use these babies. They will probably work differently in each application, just like any other cap, so don't think that one person's success (or failure) should stop you from experimenting yourself.

Thanks for this thread. Lots of great information. It should be put into the FAQ section (like Joe's tube lore over at Audio Asylum) so that others can benefit from the observations it contains.

Enjoy,
Bob

(updated - I had my I's and II's and III's mixed up when referencing the Sonicaps)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KS on 23 Oct 2008, 07:49 pm

bypassing Sonicap II's.put a Sonicap III back in as a bypass

...ummmmm...Sonicap Gen II are often used as a bypass cap, not a cap to be bypassed, and there is no such critter as a Sonicap III.

"The Gen I is basically a fairly balanced capacitor.  However, some find our "balanced" slightly thin and bright compared to the more lush "colored" capacitors which would include the Gen II.  While the Gen II has a nice Midrange bloom, Gen I has a slight advantage on the freq extremes (top and bottom).  In many applications, larger values of Gen I bypassed with smaller values of Gen II yield a very favorable result.  the Sonicap Platinum posses the best combination of sonic characteristics available in a capacitor today.  It is very fast, but full and rich.  The presentation is ultra smooth without loss of detail, focus, or dynamics."
http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicap.htm (http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicap.htm) 

I have crossover network Sonicap Gen I capacitors bypassed with Gen II, and some I've upgraded to Platinum bypasses.  Very, very nice, open, clear, accurate sound, even better with the Platinums.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 4 Nov 2008, 09:52 pm
Interesting observations about the Vit-Q's, Jon.

Some years ago when I was just getting started in DIY, there used to be a surplus electronics dealer in my town, and every now and then they would have grab bags of parts for very cheap. This was in the early/mid '90s when the whole SET movement was just picking up in the US.

I acquired a bunch of Vitamin Q's at that time, having heard raves about them from various media sources.

I tried them in my Audio Note Kit One 300B amp and didn't like them at all. My impression was that they made the music muddy, thick, dark, extremely veiled and slow, with very little leading edge bite or slam. I thought the aluminum foil, and later the copper foil, Jensens sounded much, much better in that amp.

Maybe it was that particular circuit, lack of burn-in, my specific system, my sonic preferences at the time, or maybe that's just the way they were, but I did not like them in my system for those reasons.

Your observations make me want to pull them out and try them again, though.

It's interesting, but I've heard both fanatical rave reviews of the Vit Q's and also of folks who have had the same observations about the thickness and muddiness that I had. So maybe their performance is very system/application dependent.

Incidentally, I also acquired some Westcap branded caps which look nearly identical to the Vit-Q's and which sound awesome in the crossover of my Klipsch Heresies speakers.

I also had the "Audio 1" brand oil cap upgrade (looked to be the same type of construction as the vintage Vit-Q's and Westcaps) in my Cary preamp, and that was also awful in the same way described above.

Not all vintage oilers are the same, of course, but what mixed results.

I'm very curious to hear if anyone else has had experience with Vit-Q's or other vintage metal-cased oil caps and how those worked out for them.

Thanks,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 6 Nov 2008, 10:24 pm
Interesting observations about the Vit-Q's, Jon.

I tried them in my Audio Note Kit One 300B amp and didn't like them at all. My impression was that they made the music muddy, thick, dark, extremely veiled and slow, with very little leading edge bite or slam. I thought the aluminum foil, and later the copper foil, Jensens sounded much, much better in that amp.


With oil caps, I find that they don't hit their stride and open up until playing for *days* in the amp, even if the cap was pre-burned-in. 

Even after settling in, I like Vit Q's the best in "neutral" amps, not "lush" amps.  I like my 2A3 SET amp a lot, but the best cap for that is Audiocap Theta bypassed with teflons.  Most 300B SET would be pretty much what you don't want to use Vit Q's in. 

Vit Q sounds the opposite of thick and muddy in my single-ended Pentode Almarro, which is far-more detailed, fast, forward than most SET's. 

Some people also report certain uF/Voltage values of the same cap to be of varying sound quality, so who knows... 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 9 Nov 2008, 07:11 am
Another met poly cap that has my interest is the Axon Aeon caps.  They are found in Nelson Pass's B1 buffer.  They are supposedly made by Solen, but I am unsure if it is merely a label change or not.  Anyone have any experience with these caps?   http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=axoncap

I today changed the 1uF Axon Aeon coupling caps that came as standard in my phono stage to Mundorf Silver in Oil.  It's early days but (much as I have the utmost respect for Nelson Pass  :D ) I seem to be getting more delicacy, definition and smoothness.

Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: denverdoc on 9 Nov 2008, 07:43 am
Ten pages on caps--get a life dudes! Bet my house (if I had one) whether any one could reliably ............. But hey its all fun and in a passionate pursuit of what we al so dearly care about. Just thought I'd toss in a dissenting opinion, which in this case is about as sane as pi*onion--the one many layered, the other irrational.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 9 Nov 2008, 09:05 am

The thing I worry about AudioCap PCU, other than teflon-like price, is the use of copper foils and oxidation.  Jensen gets away with it b/c the oil tends to retard oxidation, but PCU is copper foil wrapped in polypropylene film, so I'd be worried about slow oxidation and sonic degradation over time that you can't see, as slow changes tend to be hard to notice..  Only way to find out is to crack open an older PCU and see  :green:

Jon,

Re: the above point, this is from the AudioCap (http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/) website (italics mine):

Exotica Copper Foil Polypropylene Film PCU
This series, with copper foil, has low distortion and provides superbly clean, clear performance. It is especially suitable for ultra-high frequencies, bringing a remarkable clarity in this sonic range. Special manufacturing techniques are employed to insure that copper will remain reliable and provide high performance over time. The gold-plated OFHC lead wires provide long-term reliability, superior to silver wires owing to gold's non-oxidizing properties; the matching of copper foil with copper leads ensures long-term high performance.

As you like the AudioCap Thetas in some applications, I'd be very curious to hear how the PCUs compare to your favorites (but I'm not having them taken out of my amps  :lol: ).

Rob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tolvix on 21 Nov 2008, 02:31 pm
hello
I read 10 pages of comments.
I do really compliments for the hard work ..  :green:
I be curious to change my capacitors signal in my phono state solid ...
you have any advice ..  :roll:
thanks and greetings
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 30 Nov 2008, 02:18 pm
I'm thankfull for the many hours I'm sure it took to compile this info. After viewing this and Humble's site, I was inspired to try some Jantzen Superior caps. Mainly because they were favourably reviewed, but also because they're inexpensive.
I'm quite satisfied with them. They have a nice balance top to bottom. These caps are encased in a thick, (what appears to be aluminum), cover under the tape. The ends are conductive so beware!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 30 Nov 2008, 02:33 pm
Good point, Frank. I always test my caps b4 I install them to be certain that they are the value that they say they are. I find that most measure higher than stated, but always with in their rating spec.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 1 Dec 2008, 05:16 am
Over the past few years, I have done 'measurement' test on various capacitors prior to 'listening' test. This included many hours on the function generator and starring at a scope. My test were performed using an extremely simple 12AU7 tube [gain stage] that I designed specifically for testing capacitors with few variables. All capacitors were the same value and measured to within 1% (well within range for such test). All capacitors were run in the circuit for 100 hours prior to starting the testing procedure. A few were tested before and after burn-in to settle personal curiosity.

 I did not and will not post my results of this testing as it was performed for personal evaluation, development and voicing of our products. Most of the test were inconclusive as they did not indicate why a particular capacitor sounds the way it does. The only aspects that could be measured with any real science was roll-off at frequency extremes and 'noise' that could be seen due to inferior design and/or materials used in the manufacturing of the capacitor.

 In the end, I ended up voicing our products based on some of the information taken from these test but more-so by listening.

This is a very daunting experiment that in the end, only proved you cannot always  hear what you measure.  Or to put it another way, you cannot always measure what you hear.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 1 Dec 2008, 08:04 pm
Any more caps on the burner, JonL?   :green:

I find merit in this thread since it mirrors and solidifies experiences I've read from many people in various other forums.  A large collective set of subjective opinions that coincide can turn into an objective measurement..... There is probably a reason oil caps are very popular, and I have doubts that they measure better than most dry film.  I'm not so sure accurate reproction leads to desired reproduction, but I'll leave it at that since this should really have a topic of its own.  JonL deserves this thread for himself  :duh:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 2 Dec 2008, 02:41 am
Any more caps on the burner, JonL?   :green:

I find merit in this thread since it mirrors and solidifies experiences I've read from many people in various other forums.  A large collective set of subjective opinions that coincide can turn into an objective measurement..... There is probably a reason oil caps are very popular, and I have doubts that they measure better than most dry film.  I'm not so sure accurate reproction leads to desired reproduction, but I'll leave it at that since this should really have a topic of its own.  JonL deserves this thread for himself  :duh:

I've got some interesting caps on the horizon, one being paper-in-wax tin-foil (not Jupiter) and polyester tin-foil (which is rare). 

I'm probably going to need to sell off some caps that I have multiples to finance future experiments.  I can't believe how much $ I've spent so far. You can be sure AudioCircle will house those ads when time comes vs. you-know-who  :green:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 2 Dec 2008, 03:09 am
Measure them..yes, and as long as they're within 2% of each other, (stated value), solder them in and listen. They either sound same, better or worse than the last pair. Each brand will have their own impact and you choose which one rings your bell.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jules on 2 Dec 2008, 03:23 am
Quote
I can't believe how much $ I've spent so far.

The mind boggles  :o. Thanks again for putting so many caps to the test, it's a great resource, for some of us  :wink:

Jules
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: myself on 3 Dec 2008, 07:45 am
thanks.

i love the sound of musicap too!!!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: myself on 3 Dec 2008, 09:27 am
Wow, such passionate arguments on both sides  :scratch:

My impetus for all this was really the *one* question to answer:  I had my beloved tube amp(s) sitting in front of me with coupling capacitors, and I wanted to find the replacement capacitors that would sound better/best to me.


Dear Jon,

Thanks for your hard work...i spent an hour reading them myself...in your first post of this thread, you said you had hovland musicap for comparison, but so far i haven't seen any write-up on hovland...please kindly write something on hovland...especially please compare hovland to V-cap, Mundorfs and Jansen...i'll appreciate it very much

thanks again
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 4 Dec 2008, 03:49 am


What you see is my DIY capacitor burn-in setup w/ resistor and *some* of my caps.

(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5599/img5464gq9hl0.jpg)

______________

From the picture it looks like your burn in fixture is comprised of a cd player on repeat feeding an integrated amplifier. The large (speaker level) music signal from the amplifier is then sent through the capacitors and into a dummy resisitor to ground. (Whew!)

I'm wondering if the lack of high voltage DC applied to one side of each capacitor would negate some of the normal burn in effect that a new capacitor would get inside a real amplifier. I like your idea for a burn in fixture though . . . . very clever!  :thumb:  It just lacks the high voltage DC. Or does it?

BTW, great job putting all of this together. Thank you very much for sharing all of this. Now, someone just needs to donate a set of Audio Note silver foil mylar in oil caps to complete your experiment. I'd send you mine but I would go through serious withdrawals while you have them.

Thanks again for the excellent thread!
 8)

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: myself on 4 Dec 2008, 08:03 am
Quote
The silver/oils at 1 uF are $54.57/each unfortunately.


 Jeff over at Sonic Craft sells the 1uF Silver/Oil for $47 ea. He is also having a clearance on the SIlver/Gold if you want to spend a little more ($73 ea.)

http://www.soniccraft.com/mundorf_capacitors.htm (http://www.soniccraft.com/mundorf_capacitors.htm)

holly cow :drool: there's a 20% discount on many cap!!!!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 4 Dec 2008, 10:03 am


From the picture it looks like your burn in fixture is comprised of a cd player on repeat feeding an integrated amplifier. The large (speaker level) music signal from the amplifier is then sent through the capacitors and into a dummy resisitor to ground. (Whew!)

I'm wondering if the lack of high voltage DC applied to one side of each capacitor would negate some of the normal burn in effect that a new capacitor would get inside a real amplifier. I like your idea for a burn in fixture though . . . . very clever!  :thumb:  It just lacks the high voltage DC. Or does it?

BTW, great job putting all of this together. Thank you very much for sharing all of this. Now, someone just needs to donate a set of Audio Note silver foil mylar in oil caps to complete your experiment. I'd send you mine but I would go through serious withdrawals while you have them.

Thanks again for the excellent thread!
 8)


Hi QEarth
input coupling caps and caps in Xovers normally meet since their insertion very low DC levels (few mV)
and in my DEQX digital preamp the DC before the output cap is 1volt.
in tube preamps output caps may meet many volts DC
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 4 Dec 2008, 03:32 pm
in tube preamps output caps may meet many volts DC

Yes, and in tube amplifiers between the driver tube and power tube too, like the ones used in this test. In my own SET amplifier, the capacitor sees more than 300V DC.

I don't know if this has any real meaning or not. I was just curious as to how much the DC had an effect on burn in.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Brown on 4 Dec 2008, 03:52 pm
Well insatalled some Teflon V-caps in my SET. Needed only two Breakin was 500 Hrs. With now about 750 Hrs they are still changing. Darn thid is annoying. Do these caps ever break in ? A note to the manfs. BREAK IN THE CAPS AT THE FACTORY. IMO its torture using our NOS tubes and wasting over 500 hours.
   Would a cable break in device be suitable to break them in. Not sure if I prefer the V-caps to the Auri caps they replaced. Its been such a long time since the Auris were in I just cany tell. Quess its time to put the Auris back for a listen. I'll say one thing though the clarity has improved and the imaging is superior. Maybe a bit to smooth on top though.
  Am I loosing it or what ?
   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rha61 on 4 Dec 2008, 07:27 pm
Hi Jon L

thank you for these great reviews
i've the same result as you with some caps i've tried ( K40 , K72 , Mundorf ...)
what about K75-10 , very nice caps ?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Dec 2008, 11:11 pm
IMO its torture using our NOS tubes and wasting over 500 hours.   

Do *not* use NOS tubes for burning in!

Anyway, here's a burn-in device I saw on the net some time ago that does apply DC to the caps and can burn in multiple caps at the same time.  For the adventurous, it should be easy to build by looking at the picture.

(http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3967/burninnf3.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: djbnh on 5 Dec 2008, 10:51 am
Well insatalled some Teflon V-caps in my SET. Needed only two Breakin was 500 Hrs. With now about 750 Hrs they are still changing. Darn thid is annoying. Do these caps ever break in ? A note to the manfs. BREAK IN THE CAPS AT THE FACTORY. IMO its torture using our NOS tubes and wasting over 500 hours.
   Would a cable break in device be suitable to break them in. Not sure if I prefer the V-caps to the Auri caps they replaced. Its been such a long time since the Auris were in I just cany tell. Quess its time to put the Auris back for a listen. I'll say one thing though the clarity has improved and the imaging is superior. Maybe a bit to smooth on top though.
  Am I loosing it or what ?
   
No need to be Old  School. Try using the Isotek System Enhancer CD (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html) - works very nicely / in record time. You can copy the CD to tape, and simply have the tape play over and over and over and over and ....

I just used it to burn in new crossovers with some none-too-small caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Brown on 5 Dec 2008, 03:55 pm
Thanks Jon. That looks fairly simple to make. djbnh have it thank you and yes it is quite affective.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: myself on 7 Dec 2008, 06:45 am
nice to combine with http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm
to get triangulation in acquiring data

Triangulate?  More like quinteplate.  Just when you thought VCap Teflon can do no wrong, you can read something like this for contrarian views:
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html
 
Another cap comparison I mostly agree with is also here:

http://www.ecp.cc/cap-notes.html

There are others, but really, there is nothing like first-hand experience when it comes to caps  :green:

thanks for these wonderful reviews with these good links....however, do you think you will write a review on Hovland musicap?

thanks for the hardwork that's very helpful for my modification of equipement
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 8 Dec 2008, 10:23 am
John L,

Thanks for all the great work on this.  I just bit the bullet and read through the whole thing and learned quite a bit.

Just wondering if you ever got to try the Mundorf Silver/Gold and Oil caps yet, and I also believe that the supreme silver oils are actually PIO caps where the silver has been vapor deposited directly on the paper, not a poly cap.  What I don't know is if the Silver/Gold and Oils are the same construction or not, but if anybody knows, it would be good to have that information.

-- Jim
Title: New World Order chooses first to die
Post by: guest41324 on 28 Dec 2008, 12:28 am
John L,

Thanks for all the great work on this.  I just bit the bullet and read through the whole thing and learned quite a bit.

Just wondering if you ever got to try the Mundorf Silver/Gold and Oil caps yet, and I also believe that the supreme silver oils are actually PIO caps where the silver has been vapor deposited directly on the paper, not a poly cap.  What I don't know is if the Silver/Gold and Oils are the same construction or not, but if anybody knows, it would be good to have that information.

-- Jim



Anyone who has ever posted any opinion of capacitor quality, in terms sound preference, is first on the list to be eligible for the globalist's agenda of world domination by way of the HAARP techniques of mind control.
Don't be perturbed, you won't feel a thing.

Serendipity,
with tongue in cheek

Title: Re: New World Order chooses first to die
Post by: arthurs on 28 Dec 2008, 12:47 am
John L,

Thanks for all the great work on this.  I just bit the bullet and read through the whole thing and learned quite a bit.

Just wondering if you ever got to try the Mundorf Silver/Gold and Oil caps yet, and I also believe that the supreme silver oils are actually PIO caps where the silver has been vapor deposited directly on the paper, not a poly cap.  What I don't know is if the Silver/Gold and Oils are the same construction or not, but if anybody knows, it would be good to have that information.

-- Jim



Anyone who has ever posted any opinion of capacitor quality, in terms sound preference, is first on the list to be eligible for the globalist's agenda of world domination by way of the HAARP techniques of mind control.
Don't be perturbed, you won't feel a thing.

Serendipity,
with tongue in cheek



Unless your post is an attempt at exactly that under the guise of a witty response to a capacitor thread...are you in Alaska by any chance?   :o :lol:
Title: Re: New World Order chooses first to die
Post by: guest41324 on 28 Dec 2008, 01:20 am
John L,

Thanks for all the great work on this.  I just bit the bullet and read through the whole thing and learned quite a bit.

Just wondering if you ever got to try the Mundorf Silver/Gold and Oil caps yet, and I also believe that the supreme silver oils are actually PIO caps where the silver has been vapor deposited directly on the paper, not a poly cap.  What I don't know is if the Silver/Gold and Oils are the same construction or not, but if anybody knows, it would be good to have that information.

-- Jim



Anyone who has ever posted any opinion of capacitor quality, in terms sound preference, is first on the list to be eligible for the globalist's agenda of world domination by way of the HAARP techniques of mind control.
Don't be perturbed, you won't feel a thing.

Serendipity,
with tongue in cheek



Unless your post is an attempt at exactly that under the guise of a witty response to a capacitor thread...are you in Alaska by any chance?   :o :lol:
I'm in Sudbury, but if you want to check it out play the Modern Lovers Astral Plane to see if the caps actually make any difference.
The album, I mean.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: pixelplay on 13 Feb 2009, 11:11 pm
Hey Guys, I'm missing my capacitor fix. Any news, new caps tested etc................
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oldgears on 11 Mar 2009, 12:52 am
JohnL,  after all the caps that you have tried, which caps are you using in your tube amp now.   

I have a single ended 45 tube amp and would love to make it sound a little more lush, liquid.  Would Mundorf Silver/Oil be the ticket.  My budget only allows me to buy these expensive caps once so I just want to make sure my money is well spent.  Thanks for the great reviews.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 11 Mar 2009, 02:48 am
JohnL,  after all the caps that you have tried, which caps are you using in your tube amp now.   

I have a single ended 45 tube amp and would love to make it sound a little more lush, liquid.  Would Mundorf Silver/Oil is the ticket.  My budget only allows me to buy these expensive caps once so I just want to make sure my money is well spent.  Thanks for the great reviews.

Funny you should ask.  I've been enjoying Mundorf SIO in my single-ended pentode EL84 amp and in my 2A3 SET, a combo of Audiocap theta with Russian Teflon bypass Plus Siemens polypropylene oil caps in Parafeed position.

Mundorf SIO is somewhat liquid but not lush at all really.  If you tell me which caps you have now, that might help...

Obviously, tube rolling is much easier to achieve changes without soldering.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oldgears on 11 Mar 2009, 04:16 am
Funny you should ask.  I've been enjoying Mundorf SIO in my single-ended pentode EL84 amp and in my 2A3 SET, a combo of Audiocap theta with Russian Teflon bypass Plus Siemens polypropylene oil caps in Parafeed position.

Mundorf SIO is somewhat liquid but not lush at all really.  If you tell me which caps you have now, that might help...

Obviously, tube rolling is much easier to achieve changes without soldering.

Thanks JohnL for your quick replied.  Currently i am using Wima MKP10 and bypass it with Vitamin Q.  The sound is quite nice and romantic, just missing a little bit of that "liquid".... 45 tubes are pretty expensive to roll so....  Thanks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 11 Mar 2009, 04:43 am


 I was under the impression that bypassing a coupling cap can make things sound kind of busy. Maybe you can get the coherent sound you are looking for (and possibly a more liquid sound) if you use just a single, high quality coupling cap without a bypass.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 11 Mar 2009, 05:54 pm
Funny you should ask.  I've been enjoying Mundorf SIO in my single-ended pentode EL84 amp and in my 2A3 SET, a combo of Audiocap theta with Russian Teflon bypass Plus Siemens polypropylene oil caps in Parafeed position.

Mundorf SIO is somewhat liquid but not lush at all really.  If you tell me which caps you have now, that might help...

Obviously, tube rolling is much easier to achieve changes without soldering.

Thanks JohnL for your quick replied.  Currently i am using Wima MKP10 and bypass it with Vitamin Q.  The sound is quite nice and romantic, just missing a little bit of that "liquid".... 45 tubes are pretty expensive to roll so....  Thanks.

I think using Vit Q or Jensen copper foil by themselves without bypass is worth trying.  You can always add a small Wima or Vishay cap as bypass later if desired. 

Siemens or Epcos polypropylene in oil caps would fit the bill nicely, except I have no idea where these can be bought anymore in the U.S. 

As far as tube rolling, rolling the small signal tubes can be very effective.  Which small tubes are you using currently?  I've got boxes of'em, too  :duh:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oldgears on 11 Mar 2009, 06:42 pm
I will get a couple of Vit Q from the auction website and try to look for the Siemens or Epcos polypropylene in oil caps per your recommendation.  Right now my amp sounds a little "sharp" - don't know if that is the right term for it but it's the best that i can come up it.

My amp uses 4 5842 driver tubes. Do you have these.   I have some Mullard and Telefunken 12AX7, 12Au7, and a LOT of EL34 tubes to trade.  Thanks JonL
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 12 Mar 2009, 05:22 pm
So you're on the whole Western Electric 417A/5842 trip.  That would be one signal tube I never got into. 

Wima caps do have that "sharp" sound.  I kind of like that in softer SET's, but 45 SET is probably the least soft of SET's, so yeah, there are many other caps that will be much less sharp and more liquid.  If Vit Q's and other oil caps don't work out, consider other caps like Dynamicap E, Jantzen, maybe evne Mundorf silver/gold. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 12 Mar 2009, 06:55 pm
Surplussales.com has a ton of different vintage PIO caps including Vitamin Qs for much better prices than you get on the bay. Better value selection too, I picked up 6 .33uf recently and got another 5 of the mil-spec version 1ufs from another surplus place...paid $5 a piece.

Oh and if you want to be really cheap but get a good sound I have just tried the Panasonic ECQ film caps in .33uf and 1uf 400v values and I am pretty impressed. We are talking at or slightly above WIMA level here, nothing spectacular but they sound better than broken in Jantzen Z-standards straight out of the box.

Only a buck or so at digikey.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oldgears on 12 Mar 2009, 10:06 pm
I will do that JonL - thanks.

Great link BillB - i have to check that out and get me some Q.  Many thanks!!!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 13 Mar 2009, 03:24 am
Oldgears,

Most interested in hearing how the Vit Q's work out for you.

The Jensen copper foils gave me that warm, liquid, involving sound when I used them as coupling caps in my AudioNote Kit One 300B amp. I think that they will get you very close to what you are seeking.

Dynamicaps sound really good, too, but don't quite get that natural, organic, flowing sound that the copper foil Jensens have. It comes close to a smooth PIO sound, but doesn't quite have the organic quality. Dynamicaps are tighter and faster, though, so they do have their strentghs; choose according to your preference. Both are good caps. Dynamicaps don't put you on a cloud like a good SET with good PIO can, however.

Interestingly, I couldn't get as involving a sound with the newer Audio Note copper-bodied copper-foil PIO as I could with the Jensen coppers.

My 2 cents, anyhow.

Good luck,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oldgears on 13 Mar 2009, 05:09 am
KT,

As soon as i can get some Q in and they are "well burned in", i will sure post my finding.  Thanks for your insight about the Jensen.  I may try them if the Q dont do it.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Frihed91 on 19 Mar 2009, 11:34 am
Oldgears,

Most interested in hearing how the Vit Q's work out for you.

The Jensen copper foils gave me that warm, liquid, involving sound when I used them as coupling caps in my AudioNote Kit One 300B amp. I think that they will get you very close to what you are seeking.

Dynamicaps sound really good, too, but don't quite get that natural, organic, flowing sound that the copper foil Jensens have. It comes close to a smooth PIO sound, but doesn't quite have the organic quality. Dynamicaps are tighter and faster, though, so they do have their strentghs; choose according to your preference. Both are good caps. Dynamicaps don't put you on a cloud like a good SET with good PIO can, however.

Interestingly, I couldn't get as involving a sound with the newer Audio Note copper-bodied copper-foil PIO as I could with the Jensen coppers.

My 2 cents, anyhow.

Good luck,
KT

I tried a copper Jensen and an AN in each mono block (quicksilver).  The Jensens were too lush and the top end was not as clean and open as with the ANs.  So, I picked the ANs to suit my musical tastes and my gear.

This is all very personal: both are very nice.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 20 Mar 2009, 03:12 am
I tried a copper Jensen and an AN in each mono block (quicksilver).  The Jensens were too lush and the top end was not as clean and open as with the ANs.  So, I picked the ANs to suit my musical tastes and my gear.

This is all very personal: both are very nice.

Your observations are pretty much in line with what I observed: the Jensens are more lush and warm, but more closed in; the ANs are tighter and cleaner sounding.

I am not surprised that the ANs sounded better in your application - I used to work in a store that sold Quicksilver gear and though I never tried rolling caps in a Quicksilver amp, I would think that I would also prefer the AN over the Jensen in your amp based on what I remember the sonics to be like.

I've also tried the AN in a Sun Audio SV-300BE, which tends to be a leaner, tighter sounding 300B amp. I found that with the AN caps the amp didn't breathe like it did with the Jensen coppers or especially the VTV Ultratone.

I think that both caps are good, but really start to sing only when put in a synergystic system. That's what's so frustrating; in order to get what you really want, you really have to try out a bunch of stuff. What is magic in one great system may tilt the sound way out of balance in another equally musical system.

You are right; it is all very personal based on your system and especially your ears.

Best,
KT


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 20 Mar 2009, 03:43 am
The Audio Note capacitors take a long, long time to come into their own. This is certainly true of the silver/mylar caps. I guess it is now equally true of the new copper/mylar caps with the white lettering.

I can understand why someone might give up on them after a month or two of heavy use. Good things will come to those who can wait it out.  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Les Lammers on 25 Mar 2009, 06:17 am
I tried a copper Jensen and an AN in each mono block (quicksilver).  The Jensens were too lush and the top end was not as clean and open as with the ANs.  So, I picked the ANs to suit my musical tastes and my gear.

This is all very personal: both are very nice.

Your observations are pretty much in line with what I observed: the Jensens are more lush and warm, but more closed in; the ANs are tighter and cleaner sounding.

I am not surprised that the ANs sounded better in your application - I used to work in a store that sold Quicksilver gear and though I never tried rolling caps in a Quicksilver amp, I would think that I would also prefer the AN over the Jensen in your amp based on what I remember the sonics to be like.

I've also tried the AN in a Sun Audio SV-300BE, which tends to be a leaner, tighter sounding 300B amp. I found that with the AN caps the amp didn't breathe like it did with the Jensen coppers or especially the VTV Ultratone.

I think that both caps are good, but really start to sing only when put in a synergystic system. That's what's so frustrating; in order to get what you really want, you really have to try out a bunch of stuff. What is magic in one great system may tilt the sound way out of balance in another equally musical system.

You are right; it is all very personal based on your system and especially your ears.

Best,
KT




I agree. Try the Vitamin Q...they are cheap...but *I* think AN or Jensen will be where you end up. Changing caps is usually less expensive than chasing expensive NOS tubes. Just to add another flavor....http://www.jupitercondenser.com/ sounded very good in a Korneff 45. What does you system consit of? Synergy is the key.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 Mar 2009, 01:01 am
..but *I* think AN or Jensen will be where you end up.


Until AN/Jensen becomes more affordable, esp the silver versions, there is an interesting capacitor company called AmpOhm from U.K.

I just started listening to their tin foil PIO cap (much larger than the same-value Mundorf SIO in the photo), and it's sounding very promising so far.  Even better news is these things go for $15-16 a piece...

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2967/img0356zdl.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 04:32 pm
By popular request, this thread will be stickied in the lab.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 05:14 pm
You know, I had never noticed this thread before it was requested to be moved to the lab.  I usually view the AC forum under the favorites view, which has been selected for the circles I tend to follow most.  That meant I had never seen this thread.

I haven't yet read through it all.  I just read Jon L's first few posts on page 1, the ones with the meat.

I have a couple of minor points to make about the K72 teflon cap, in case it wasn't already made in the other 12 pages.  I have 4 .47uf K72s in my possession and I have quite a number of .1ufs.  So yes, they do come in larger sizes, it may be though that they were already picked over by the DIY crowd who refuses to pay the prices for some of the mundorfs, v-caps, etc of the world.  They have long been a cult favorite of the diy crowd.

Second, l actually cut the case off some K72s this weekend (before I saw this thread).  There are a number of threads on the diy forums about doing this and the improvement it is said to make.  I wanted to see how hard it was to do.  The easiest way is to use a set of plumbers pipe cutters. 

As noted by Jon, they have a solid post out of the cap.  The leads are internally wrapped around this post.  When you take the case off and slide the end caps off you will unviel the leads wrapped around the post.  The leads are about 1.5-2" long.  The case is most definitely steel as it was very attracted to my compression drivers that were getting de-screened too. 

I have to imagine the steel case does no favors for this cap.  Its going to interact with the electromagnetic field of the cap, but maybe the purpose these were made for needed the sheilding it provided.

I haven't ventured to recase them like some others have shown on the internet.  I am still looking for the appropriate sized cardboard cylinder to house them.  I could also use shrink wrap.

One thing I did notice is that the caps are trimmed to be the right value.  On occasion a small piece of the foil is added to the last layers, presumably to bring the cap up to the value specified. 


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 05:35 pm
I recently used the Russian teflons ....I then tried them as a bypass on the mid/bass driver. Forward sounding, lack of texture, loss of image detail ... not good at all. The whole speaker balance shifted upward and the imaging and soundstaging suffered badly.

...Enjoy,
Bob

Were they K72s?  If so, did you leave the case on them?  Were they anywhere close to inductors?  Something to think about.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 Mar 2009, 05:42 pm

As noted by Jon, they have a solid post out of the cap.  The leads are internally wrapped around this post.  When you take the case off and slide the end caps off you will unviel the leads wrapped around the post.  The leads are about 1.5-2" long.  The case is most definitely steel as it was very attracted to my compression drivers that were getting de-screened too. 



What, after all that work, no internal photos?  :green:

It's funny you mention K72's b/c I've been looking at it more lately. It's the the cap that seems to be the stepchild in the teflon world.  The liquid-teflon injected K72's were one way to go, but the more I think about it, my gut feeling is bypassing it with a small polystyrene cap, esp NOS TRW, would give me the smooth "airy" extension on top while diverting attention away from the hardish upper-mids.  This will definitely be on my to-do list.  

Thanks for the sticky BTW...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 05:48 pm
I still have all the parts, so I will take some photos.  I cut the case off the .033uf (for phono RIAA eq) first and they were a bitch.  The .1ufs weren't as hard, probably because they were bigger and I was using the bigger pipe cutters.

I could loan you a pair of de-cased K72s if you curiousity would inspire you to try them.  You'd have to tell me which value (I have a cabinet full of them in various values).  I also have as many K40Ys and K75s (these are more for PSU, but worth a shot).

I also have a pair of Obbligato .47ufs.  I have a bunch of other more "bargain" caps as well.  I you want to add any to the round up I'll send them out to you.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 29 Mar 2009, 06:11 pm
nice

this is a good and unexpected development :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 29 Mar 2009, 06:44 pm
Anyone just try grounding the case?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 06:50 pm
Have not, but it would still react with the field, maybe in a good way, maybe not.  Some have suggested that caps have a hysterisis property, don't know how a steel case would interact with that.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 07:32 pm
Pics as requested.

The various pieces... (nevermind the cat hair, cat's blanket served as backdrop)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18973)

close up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18974)

I forgot to put the teflon "washers" in the pic.  They are on the ends to insulate the raw ends from the case.  The one end has been cut up a bit to get the washers out.  I kept the washers as they will be used when the new case goes on. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 29 Mar 2009, 08:49 pm
is that an expensive piece of "cutter" ? and how is it called?
kyrill
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Don_S on 29 Mar 2009, 09:00 pm
is that an expensive piece of "cutter" ? and how is it called?
kyrill

Looks like your standard, every-day tubing cutter for soft metals like aluminum and copper.  Available at any hardware store for probably less than $20.  I guess more like $12-15.  It has been a few decades since I bought mine so my estimate may be off.

Of course the audiophile version has an oxygen free cutting wheel (proprietary alloy composition) and is cryo treated for $575.  Take your pick.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: toobluvr on 29 Mar 2009, 09:03 pm

Yeah....
It sounds better as it cuts through the cap!

 :lol:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 29 Mar 2009, 09:13 pm
..but *I* think AN or Jensen will be where you end up.


Until AN/Jensen becomes more affordable, esp the silver versions, there is an interesting capacitor company called AmpOhm from U.K.

I just started listening to their tin foil PIO cap (much larger than the same-value Mundorf SIO in the photo), and it's sounding very promising so far.  Even better news is these things go for $15-16 a piece...

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2967/img0356zdl.jpg)

Very nice, I was really looking at this cap but didn't feel like ordering from the UK.  The tin foil makes it very attractive, and being in oil makes it even more attractive to me.  I'm looking forward to your impressions.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 29 Mar 2009, 09:25 pm
Pics as requested.

The various pieces... (nevermind the cat hair, cat's blanket served as backdrop)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18973)

close up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=18974)

I forgot to put the teflon "washers" in the pic.  They are on the ends to insulate the raw ends from the case.  The one end has been cut up a bit to get the washers out.  I kept the washers as they will be used when the new case goes on. 

I use the nude FT3 caps.  Instead of the thin wire in your picture, two 1/4" or so aluminum foil leads protrude from both sides.  It is bolted to the ends (aluminum doesn't solder).  For my "re-case", I wrapped the cap with stretchable packaging tape, which I believe is a better dielectric than shrink tube or pvc pipes that others have used.  I cut holes in the foil leads and used a brass nut and screw to attach wire to it.  It's not elegant, but it works. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 Mar 2009, 09:59 pm

Very nice, I was really looking at this cap but didn't feel like ordering from the UK.  The tin foil makes it very attractive, and being in oil makes it even more attractive to me.  I'm looking forward to your impressions.

Actually, Thetubestore is the distributor of AmpOhm capacitors in U.S. and Canada.
http://thetubestore.com/paperinoil.html

I also happen to have the exact same cap but in aluminum PIO, so I can *really* compare tin to aluminum :)  I tell you.  These AmpOhm caps scream of quality and class the moment you hold them...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 29 Mar 2009, 10:56 pm
John,

thetubestore seems to be out of stock on the tin pio caps -- at leas the values I need right now :D.

How long ago did you get yours?

Thanks,

Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 11:41 pm
is that an expensive piece of "cutter" ? and how is it called?
kyrill

I think I paid $7 or $8 for it at Home Depot.  I have a few of them as I have done a lot of plumbing in my house.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 29 Mar 2009, 11:43 pm
I use the nude FT3 caps.  Instead of the thin wire in your picture, two 1/4" or so aluminum foil leads protrude from both sides.  It is bolted to the ends (aluminum doesn't solder).  For my "re-case", I wrapped the cap with stretchable packaging tape, which I believe is a better dielectric than shrink tube or pvc pipes that others have used.  I cut holes in the foil leads and used a brass nut and screw to attach wire to it.  It's not elegant, but it works. 

Like the clear packaging tape?  I could try that.  Sounds easy. 

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 30 Mar 2009, 02:36 am
I use the nude FT3 caps.  Instead of the thin wire in your picture, two 1/4" or so aluminum foil leads protrude from both sides.  It is bolted to the ends (aluminum doesn't solder).  For my "re-case", I wrapped the cap with stretchable packaging tape, which I believe is a better dielectric than shrink tube or pvc pipes that others have used.  I cut holes in the foil leads and used a brass nut and screw to attach wire to it.  It's not elegant, but it works. 

Like the clear packaging tape?  I could try that.  Sounds easy. 



Yes, but mine was the stretchable kind from 3M.  I thought it might hold tighter that way, but it probably doesn't matter considering the cap isn't rolled perfectly tight to begin with.  If you want to keep with the Teflon theme, there's always this shrink tube  (http://cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink/heat-shrink-PTFEdualwall.htm).  :o
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 30 Mar 2009, 02:41 am
I used packing tape (knock off, not 3m).  I was going to use some epoxy to seal up the ends but noticed it said it was extremely flammable.  That won't work!  :o   Got to find my glue gun.  I thought about silicone but the stuff I have on hand isn't liquid enough.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 30 Mar 2009, 02:52 am
Man, those caps don't seem to be very tightly wound. I thought that was a big part of the "magic".
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 30 Mar 2009, 03:20 am
there's always this shrink tube  (http://cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink/heat-shrink-PTFEdualwall.htm).  :o

I remember late Bob Crump talking about how impossible it is to use teflon heatshrinks due to very high temps needed to make them actually shrink. 

Polyolefin heatshrinks are pretty good-sounding vs. PVC, so I would probably just wrap the cap with wide plumber teflon tape again and heatshrink with polyolefin.  I do have both :)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 30 Mar 2009, 06:16 am
there's always this shrink tube  (http://cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink/heat-shrink-PTFEdualwall.htm).  :o

I remember late Bob Crump talking about how impossible it is to use teflon heatshrinks due to very high temps needed to make them actually shrink. 

Polyolefin heatshrinks are pretty good-sounding vs. PVC, so I would probably just wrap the cap with wide plumber teflon tape again and heatshrink with polyolefin.  I do have both :)

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 4 Apr 2009, 01:52 am
The upshot of all these different caps is that you can really get close to a sound that you love.

The downside is that you're always wondering if the caps you haven't had the resources, energy, or time to try will bring you closer to the sound that you love. Then you start doubting your system. If there's something that doesn't sound quite right to you in your system, then you're left trying this or that cap, or cable, or component, and on, and on....

The sword cuts both ways, dang it!

I guess I should consider myself lucky; I've honed my system enough over the years so it sounds good enough that I don't feel the need to mess around with it. Every time I get the inkling to do that, it subsides with the thought that the system sounds really enjoyable and natural to me and that tweaking it further would most likely invite disappointment and an unneeded waste of time, effort, and mental energy.

FWIW, the caps I have in my system's signal path are VTV Ultratones, Dynamicaps, and Blackgate Ns, one of each per channel going from preamp to amp. There's an additional Blackgate N at the output of my CD player's outboard DAC, as well. YMMV, of course.

Regarding the Jupiter Beeswax caps, I tried the ones originally sold by Ron Welborne in my Sun SV-300BE amp as well as in my Cary SLP-94 preamp. I thought they sounded really open and natural in my system (but in a different way than the rich, lush, sound of PIOs - maybe a bit more open, fast, and transparent, though dryer), but somewhat light. That lack of slam led me to move on to other caps. If the Jupiters had more density and weight in the lower midrange and bass, they would be killer, IMO!

I'm really curious about the AmpOhms, but will probably leave things as is. I'd love to hear more observations as you listen further, however.

Best,
KT

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 11 Apr 2009, 01:09 am
Has anyone out there tried both Duelund CAST and Claritycap MR's in a loudspeaker crossover?

I really like the tonality/timbre and smoothness of Duelund's copper VSF's.  But Claritycap MR's seem to do everything else better, such as dynamics, separation, imaging/soundstage, and are only slightly behind on tonality.  From what I hear, the CASTs are the end all, be all of caps, but I can't seem to get any feedback from someone who's tried both MR's and CAST's. 

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 11 Apr 2009, 02:09 pm

. . . . . . . you're always wondering if the caps you haven't had the resources, energy, or time to try will bring you closer to the sound that you love. Then you start doubting your system. If there's something that doesn't sound quite right to you in your system, then you're left trying this or that cap, or cable, or component, and on, and on....

. . . . . Every time I get the inkling to do that, it subsides with the thought that the system sounds really enjoyable and natural to me and that tweaking it further would most likely invite disappointment . . .

Man, this is so true. Sometimes the best upgrade is to put it back the way it was before you put "better" parts in and ruined everything.

Of course, you'll never know until you try.  :green:

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: shawnds on 12 Apr 2009, 12:01 am
Hi All I wonder how the Amp ohm aluminum   compairs with the aluminum Jensen.
I have Altec amps with aluminum Jensen's in and they are great in most ways
The driver section has old green cornell dubellier and coupled with the Jensen's there is airy magic.
I have spent lots of cash trying to beat that combo and I gain in one area of the sound and loose in another.
The positives of Jensen copper is for my system >>>great 3d soundstage and rich vocals little clearer sound
neg>> way less air and  vocal and piano don't have the realism.
Mundorf sfo positive wide sound detailed
Neg vocals are edgy bright no realism . not as open bloomy as the Jensen's of eather the aluminum or copper.
Hovalin music cap >> positive clear wide good bass
Neg >>> plastic sounding and real bright.
K40y seams to be in between the two Jensen's but still a little uninvolved in the vocals.
As for the green old caps I have try-ed both mundorf and Jensen copper and prefer the old paper and wax in that spot.
Any info on the AMPOHM's would be appreciated aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 12 Apr 2009, 05:47 pm
Hi All I wonder how the Amp ohm aluminum   compairs with the aluminum Jensen.
I have Altec amps with aluminum Jensen's in and they are great in most ways
The driver section has old green cornell dubellier and coupled with the Jensen's there is airy magic.
I have spent lots of cash trying to beat that combo and I gain in one area of the sound and loose in another.
The positives of Jensen copper is for my system >>>great 3d soundstage and rich vocals little clearer sound
neg>> way less air and  vocal and piano don't have the realism.
Mundorf sfo positive wide sound detailed
Neg vocals are edgy bright no realism . not as open bloomy as the Jensen's of eather the aluminum or copper.
Hovalin music cap >> positive clear wide good bass
Neg >>> plastic sounding and real bright.
K40y seams to be in between the two Jensen's but still a little uninvolved in the vocals.
As for the green old caps I have try-ed both mundorf and Jensen copper and prefer the old paper and wax in that spot.
Any info on the AMPOHM's would be appreciated aa

It may be that the cap combo you currently have is what you should stick to.  This whole thing is still about overall system synergy and personal tastes. 

Having said that, I think you'll like the AmpOhm TIN foil PIO.  I really like how *music* happens in my room with this cap, and I simply have not been able to bring myself to take it out to try the next cap.  I will soon (hopefully) try the AmpOhm aluminum PIO, but no promises  :green:

As far as Jensen aluminums, Aaarrhh, please don't make me buy yet another pair of caps.  If anyone has Jensen aluminums to loan me to compare to other PIO's, let me know...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 16 Apr 2009, 08:51 pm
...I think you'll like the AmpOhm TIN foil PIO.  I really like how *music* happens in my room with this cap, and I simply have not been able to bring myself to take it out to try the next cap...

Do AmpOhm make a copper foil cap? The Tin foil PIOs sound like a great cap... based on your positive experience with the tin, do you think it would be worth holding out for the copper version? I'm not sure if one already exists or is even in the works if it doesn't already exist.

How do the AmpOhm compare with the Mundorf Silver in Oil? The Mundorfs seem like they may mate with my system well, but are a bit pricey. AmpOhm prices seem very reasonable.

I, too, am a fan of the Jensen copper PIOs. Funny I don't actually have any running in my system right now. A very musical and natural sounding cap if it synergizes with your system. The AN Kit One 300B with Jensen Copper PIOs on Klipsch Heresies did that hypnotic SET thing that was so captivating.

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 16 Apr 2009, 10:13 pm
AmpOhm Tin Foil Paper In Oil Capacitor

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5703/img0353cao.jpg)

If you have been following this thread, you may know that I have been enjoying the venerable Mundorf Silver In Oil more and more of late.  After everything has been said and done, when I actually had to choose ( :o) one capacitor for my amp to do some actual music-enjoying, I somehow chose the Mundorf SIO. 

No, it doesn't "seem" to have 100 % of good Teflon caps' transparency and resolution, and it doesn't quite have 100 % of the weight and bloom of a good paper-in-oil; but it has enough of those qualities while avoiding to sound too literal (e.g. some teflons) or too rich (e.g. some PIO's). 

So it came to me as a pleasant surprise when the AmpOhm Tin PIO directly replaced Mundorf SIO and seemed to be sounding at least as good!  From experience, I knew oil caps need to settle in the specific circuit through regular use, so I let AmpOhm play/turn-off for many days. 

AmpOhm really seems to hit the right balance among PIO's.  In some circuits, the wonderful Jensen copper PIO can sometimes sound a bit too refined and buttery for my tastes, but AmpOhm avoids that while still remaining smooth.  Speaking of smooth, AmpOhm is smoother than the Russian K40y, which in comparison can seem to have slightly more prominent grain-structure. 

Mundorf SIO is not paper-in-oil, and as such, it has more top-end "air" and speed compared to most true PIO's.  AmpOhm does not necessarily make you notice that extra air and sparkle up top, but it's still very extended when one listens for acoutic instruments like bells and triangles.  What it has over Mundorf is higher density of tone and richness while not sounding syrupy or slow. 

I still remember the first time I played Bach Cello Suites via AmpOhm.  The cello sounded so magnificent I almost fell off my chair!  Every detail, texture came through with power and vigor.

At around $15 a piece, these things are a bargain in the audiophile capacitor world.  They are much larger than similar-value Mundorf SIO, so make sure you have enough space, but they are very well-built, look beautiful, and sound even better.  One caution.  If you are looking to PIO's as sort of a filter to hide system faults by rounding, glossing-over, or rolling-off, these AmpOhms are not the way to go because they are still incredibly detailed and revealing of the signal chain.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 16 Apr 2009, 10:26 pm
Good to hear that.  I just ordered a pair of .1 uF tin foil PIOs for my bottlehead s.e.x. amp upgrade, and a pair of 2.2 uF ampohm poly films for the parafeed caps.  Looks like thetubestore has stock again.

I would have ordered the 2.2 uF PIOs, but they're huge 2" diameter x 4" long and right now I'm not sure if those will fit, but maybe later when I build a larger chassis for the amp.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 16 Apr 2009, 11:42 pm
....At around $15 a piece, these things are a bargain in the audiophile capacitor world.

This is fantistic news, Jon. Thanks so much for the comarison with the Mundorf SIO. Looks like the AmpOhm is definitely one to try.

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tolvix on 17 Apr 2009, 10:00 am
good morning to everybody   :green:
me to read with a lot of attention your topic..   :o
me to ask one opinion of yours.. 
me to have preamplifier phono solid state, that to use 1uf capacitor of signal polypropylene metallized  Chinese  :duh:..!! 
me to want to replace! 
me to listen to a lot of jazz vocals and tools type guitar cello.. 
me first to have thought about Mundorf silver/gold/oil, now, me to think to Ampohm tin foil 
you thing to recommend ? 
then to want to ask whether to perform the burn-in of the capacitors of signal before settling.. 
me to see page 1 photo, as to connect amplifier capacitor, not to serve a resistance? to which to use volume, plain or strong? 
thanks for help, regards  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 17 Apr 2009, 04:20 pm
Hi Jon

Am presently trying some Audiocap Theta's , bypassed by ft-3 teflon in my DAC . How long would you estimate the breakin time to be ? :scratch:

I have about 3 days continuous play on them , they are replacing  Mundorf silver in oils .

Thanks

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: turkey on 17 Apr 2009, 04:53 pm
there's always this shrink tube  (http://cableorganizer.com/heat-shrink/heat-shrink-PTFEdualwall.htm).  :o

I remember late Bob Crump talking about how impossible it is to use teflon heatshrinks due to very high temps needed to make them actually shrink. 

Polyolefin heatshrinks are pretty good-sounding vs. PVC, so I would probably just wrap the cap with wide plumber teflon tape again and heatshrink with polyolefin.  I do have both :)

And here I thought I had seen it all.

So you can hear the difference between types of shrinkwrap on capacitors?

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 17 Apr 2009, 11:24 pm
Hi Jon

Am presently trying some Audiocap Theta's , bypassed by ft-3 teflon in my DAC . How long would you estimate the breakin time to be ? :scratch:

I have about 3 days continuous play on them , they are replacing  Mundorf silver in oils .

Thanks

Joey B.

Are you using the small Russian telons like 2200 pF I used to bypass Theta?  If you use the bigger teflons, the teflon character will dominate more, which may not be what you want in digital gear, esp if without tubes.

Which DAC do you have?

Remember that my platforms are low-watt tube amps.  In digital gear, I probably would tend to go with less of the brutally-revealing/neutral school of caps and more of the PIO variety...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 18 Apr 2009, 12:09 am
Great to hear!

I just received 8 tin in oils this afternoon for my amp!
Looking foward to breaking them in :evil:

Great work Jon
Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 18 Apr 2009, 12:42 am
Are you going to put them in yourself this time Mike? (And if you answer, "No, I'm going to put them in my amp" then I know you've already opened that bottle of wine and begun sampoing it tonight).

Bob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 18 Apr 2009, 12:46 am
Bob,
I am tempted but I would like some help,
Maybe you?
you back from vacation?
Regarding wine, yes I have partaken, but so has half my block, which is at my house now for a BBQ,
I have some other tricks to do as well. ordered 3 pair of input boards for my amp.
Vinny is going to make a triode board, a VTL board, and a Vinny special
should be interesting

Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 18 Apr 2009, 01:54 am
I used a 2uf Audiocap Theta and a .1uf FT-3 . It is a Peter Daniel premium gold nos dac .It feeds a Bottlehead -- Extended Foreplay III . I'm running 13d5 tubes and Mundorf SIO coupling caps in the Foreplay .

The original caps that the dac came with are 4 uf Blackgate n's . I've used the Mundorf's since about the second or third month after I built the kit . It's always seemed like I've had a slight upper midrange bump that I couldn't get rid of .

My source is a computer server using cplay or j River , M-Audio revo 7.1 card ,to PDPG NOS DAC ,Extended Foreplay III, Audio Research HD 100.2 amp , MG IIIa speakers , Velodyne Sub .

Thanks
Joey B
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 18 Apr 2009, 02:33 am
I used a 2uf Audiocap Theta and a .1uf FT-3 . It is a Peter Daniel premium gold nos dac .It feeds a Bottlehead -- Extended Foreplay III . I'm running 13d5 tubes and Mundorf SIO coupling caps in the Foreplay .

The original caps that the dac came with are 4 uf Blackgate n's . I've used the Mundorf's since about the second or third month after I built the kit . It's always seemed like I've had a slight upper midrange bump that I couldn't get rid of .

My source is a computer server using cplay or j River , M-Audio revo 7.1 card ,to PDPG NOS DAC ,Extended Foreplay III, Audio Research HD 100.2 amp , MG IIIa speakers , Velodyne Sub .


That's a tough one. One of my DAC's is a NOS one with passive cap output.  NOS has its advantages, but upper-midrange ethereal smoothness is not exactly one of them, and your Maggies are not cushioning that effect, either. 

My Theta is 0.22 uF, so yours is 10X bigger including the Teflon.  I'm guessing your sound is too crisp and crunchy, maybe even hard right now.  If Mundorf SIO had upper midrange bump to begin with in your system, big Theta/teflon is perhaps the last choice in that NOS DAC.  Luckily, you're the perfect candidate for the AmpOhm cap, and their 2.0 uF cap is still only about $30...

OR.. I would try taking off the Teflon bypass first.  If that doesn't help, bypassing with something else, maybe even a small PIO or some other small smooth cap you have laying around may be something to try.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: whams on 18 Apr 2009, 06:43 am
Just discovered this thread (don't know how I missed it). Very well done Jon L....massive effort  :)

I noticed there has been lots of talk about the V Cap Teflons but I didn't see anything on the V Cap OIMP's? (please forgive me if I missed it....this has become a 'LARGE' thread)

I think I also going to get myself a C meter. The points made by Van Alstine about cap matching, checking values etc seem very valid indeed.

Great work  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 20 Apr 2009, 05:51 pm
Hi Jon

I think you misinterpret my post . I'm happy as a lark with the caps . I just want to know what the approximate breakin time is  8)

The  sound is smooth with slammin bass right now and less upper mid range hump and glare than before with the mundorf  , which is exactly what I wanted to accomplish . Don't anyone freakout that I said mundorf's are glary or anything , i'm just trying to match the cap to my speakers which as Jon pointed out have a little upper mid range hump also . I'm , also , still using mundorf  SIO in my preamp still. When I posted last the bass had not filled on the new caps out to the extent it has now . I have about 125 hrs on now them now .

I broke in a v-cap one time as a power supply bypass and that took about 400 hours , it was
actually very good after 250 hrs .

The ratio of Audiocap Theta to FT-3 on your rig is 10/1 . My ratio is 20/1 so my FT-3 is less influencing than yours . I Think  :wink:

Thanks For Your Help :thumb:

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 20 Apr 2009, 08:13 pm
Hi Jon

I think you misinterpret my post . I'm happy as a lark with the caps . I just want to know what the approximate breakin time is  8)


Ah..That's better.

As far as break-in, let me put it this way.  While some people would even say one's lifetime isn't long enough to break in some of these things, I usually find that if something hasn't started to sound at least decent or good after a couple of weeks of heavy use, then the chances of euphoria is very slim no matter how much longer you burn them in  :duh:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 23 Apr 2009, 08:35 pm
Just received my ampohm tin foil PIOs and a pair of their metalized poly caps as well.  Really top notch construction.  When the time is right, these will find their way into a bottlehead s.e.x. amp.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 24 Apr 2009, 12:37 am
I'll be getting my the Ampohm in tommorow.  I plan to drop it in place of some Obbligato Gold caps (my current budget favorite) in some class D amps.  It should be a fun comparison as I haven't purchased different brands of caps in a while. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 24 Apr 2009, 03:41 pm
I need some 10uf caps for my newest project...tin foil ampohms dont come that big, are the aluminums pretty good or should I stick with the Obbligatos for half the price?

This will be more money than I have ever spent on a cap so I don't want to wonder.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 24 Apr 2009, 06:11 pm
I need some 10uf caps for my newest project...tin foil ampohms dont come that big, are the aluminums pretty good or should I stick with the Obbligatos for half the price?

This will be more money than I have ever spent on a cap so I don't want to wonder.

10 uF?!  Must be building some Aikido's or something :)

I have some Obbligatos on their way to me, and I've been pushing myself to replace the tin AmpOhm with aluminum AmpOhm for days now.  Forgetting about the usual audiophile stuff for a momet, when music sounds correct in timber and tone, it's hard to change things...  Will report when I can.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 24 Apr 2009, 06:55 pm
A high current low-mu preamp designed by Peter Millett.

Its a sweet honkin' design with only 1.49dB of gain and uses EL34s as CCS driving a single 6as7 as pre-tube.

 :thumb:

Parts are adding up pretty fast (every damn resistor is 1w+ so you go from .14c parts to 1.38 parts...adds up fast) so I want to be sure I don't feel a need to change anything!!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 24 Apr 2009, 07:23 pm
Crap!

I just realized the Ampohm in that size are only 300v  :duh: B+ is 320v so no go there.

Their metalized PP are cheap and fit the voltage, not sure if they are any good, only a buck more than a Solen.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 24 Apr 2009, 07:43 pm
Bill,

I'm going to try the PP, but as I need at least a 600v rating, I can't bypass them with teflons as I wanted to do -- at least not sonicap platinums, but at 400 v the platinums should work as a nice bypass for your project.

On the other hand, at that value, why just not an ASC or similar oil/motor run cap?

Just FYI, the leads on the ampohm PP caps are solid but with insulation -- the tin/oils are bare solid wire.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 24 Apr 2009, 07:54 pm
Thanks Jim,

Haven't given much thought to motor/run caps. Will look around...won't they be as much or more than most of the choices in this range (the reasonable ones). I was looking at Jantzen Z-superior as I have used them in several projects but might as well try something different!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 24 Apr 2009, 08:06 pm
An ASC 15 uF 600 v oil filled poly cap should be about $10 or so.  Still pretty large though -- probably approx 2" dia by 4" or more tall.

HTH,

Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 25 Apr 2009, 03:13 am
I picked up some Ampohm PPs...needed a bunch of other crap from the tube store anyways.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 1 May 2009, 12:48 am
Jeez the ampohms are huge!!

Here is the Ampohm PP 10uf next to a Solen 10uf and an Epcos 390uf 450v electrolytic: (And an 6CA7...which it is almost as big as)

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3524/dsc09438.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 1 May 2009, 02:20 am
Wow, I wonder what makes up such a large difference in size. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 1 May 2009, 03:10 am
You need that much space to put a Solen inside, wrap it and cap it.  :lol:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 May 2009, 05:12 pm
Wow, I wonder what makes up such a large difference in size. 

I wonder that myself.  More = better?

Anyway, I've been listening to the Aluminum Foil PIO version of late, and I must say, there's nothing wrong with aluminum !

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3811/img0418e.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: clouis on 2 May 2009, 03:27 pm
Is there any body who have try to evaluate the impact of the decoupling capacitor (generaly made of plastic film) of the PSU unit in an amplifier by example.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: shawnds on 5 May 2009, 12:15 am
HEY Jon If you had to pick between the ampohm alum or the tin bassed on vocals wich do you think has the more natural or real sounding midrange? I plan to order some to take place of jensen aluminum. I have tryed the copper jensen and it is to thick sounding no air compaired to aluminum . Mundorf sfo to thin sounding in the midrange.
Thanks shawn
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 5 May 2009, 12:25 am
HEY Jon If you had to pick between the ampohm alum or the tin bassed on vocals wich do you think has the more natural or real sounding midrange? I plan to order some to take place of jensen aluminum. I have tryed the copper jensen and it is to thick sounding no air compaired to aluminum . Mundorf sfo to thin sounding in the midrange.
Thanks shawn


They are very similar, not unexpectedly since they are built exactly the same except for the aluminum vs. tin foil. 

If I had to describe the difference, Tin foil seems to present a *hair* more fine detail but aluminum foil is just a teeny bit smoother in the midrange. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tolvix on 6 May 2009, 05:36 pm
Hello Jon   :green:
you thing to recommend for a preamplifier phono?? 
ampohm tin foil..... or... ampohm aluminium foil..... or.......mundorf silver/gold/oil..... 
graces and regards   aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 7 May 2009, 08:27 pm
AmpOhm Aluminum Foil Paper In Oil Capacitor

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3811/img0418e.jpg)

AmpOhm's aluminum foil version of PIO capacitors costs a dollar or two less than the tin foil version.  Using common sense and powers of deduction, one would presume these aluminum caps are lower on the sonic totem pole.  One would not be entirely correct.  To quote the literature:

"AMPOHM paper in oil (PIO) capacitors are hand wound using high purity tin [or aluminum] foil. They are oil impregnated before being assembled and oil filled. The capacitors are then hermetically sealed in an aluminum housing with phenolic resin and rubber end discs. Each lead is hand solder sealed to the eyelets in the end discs. The leads are 1.0mm in diameter and made of tinned copper (0.8mm diameter 0.0033uF and below). All AMPOHM Audio Capacitors are individually hand tested." 

Sounds impressive, and both the tin and aluminum versions look and feel exactly the same with same impressive build quality.  So it should not have suprised me when the aluminum version sounded very, very similar to the tin version.  When I replaced the tin with aluminum (pre-burned-in), I *thought* I heard a slightly rounder, smoother presentation, albeit with a tiny less texture information.  However, after some hours and days, I now can't say for sure I still hear those qualities; in fact, most of it just may have been the sound of new solder joint settling in.  Sure, some people may hear more differences in different systems, but I wouldn't want to bet my own money in a blind test. 

So what I wrote about the tin foil PIO pretty much can be re-written here without significant changes, which is a very good thing.  Invariably, someone will STILL ask which one they should get for their amp XYZ.  If I had to give an answer, for no good demonstrable reason, I might say go for the tin if your amp is already on the slightly smooth, round side and go for the aluminum if one's looking for a touch more forgiving sound...

At this point, I am pretty much convinced that no capacitor can exactly sound like a PIO cap without actually being PIO, not even polypropylene in oil.  The good PIO's just have that density of tone and texture information; it may be at the expense of ultimate extension and definition at the frequency extremes, but for many, it may be a good trade.  For those who seek ruler-flat type of frequency response and "neutrality" without any extra "magic," PIO's probably will not be the answer, but these days, there are some great non-oil capacitors out there that sound great.  They don't have to be expensive, either, as evidenced by my next-at-bat capacitor, Obbligato Gold.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 8 May 2009, 01:59 am
evidenced by my next-at-bat capacitor, Obbligato Gold.

Finally, I've been bugging you to try that cap  :duh:

Thanks for another review.  I've been enjoying the Ampohm tin caps in direct replacement of the Obbligato Gold.  Both are definitely fine caps for the price.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 13 May 2009, 01:11 am
Just a little update
I have been using (8 )  .10 ampohn tin in oil caps as coupling caps for my tube amp
They have about 200 hours on them, tone is Delicious, great texture, did I mention wonderful tone?
If you love tone like I do you will love what this cap can do.

Some negatives
Maybe I should have used a different cap in this position
I lost air, speed and upper extension and bass is not as tight as the previous polypro caps.

Don't misunderstand me, these are nice caps, but being a PIO in this position made my system loose some things.
I am ordering some .01 platinums to bypass, maybe the combo will be great!
Will let you know
Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 13 May 2009, 05:19 am
Obbligato “Copper” Capacitor

(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2491/obcopper.jpg)

These Obbligato series of capacitors are sold by Diyhifisupply.com and are made to their specs.  These are called “Copper” because the casing is made of solid copper, but the internal design is still metalized polypropylene.  To quote the website:

“These Obbligato film caps have a solid copper case, soldered copper lead-out wires and individually wrapped. All measure very close to rated value, max 5% but typically 1-2%. Wound tight with no voids and give a very transparent, smooth sound.”

Obbligato caps have long been known to the DIY community as excellent inexpensive capacitors, costing around $5 for coupling sizes.  They certainly weigh a ton due to the thick copper casing and feel extremely solid; they do not sound cheap, either.  The overall sound seems linear, more so than the PIO caps, with very nicely airy and extended top-end.  There is no hardness or glassy artifacts often found in really cheaply-made metalized poly caps while retaining speed and transparency. 

The better metalized poly caps in general seem to share a trait, including Obbligato.  They tend to have very nice detail and air in upper treble and a “fast” sound, but in the regions below, they tend not quite as developed, especially in the low-midrange/upper-bass area, with the possible exception of Auricaps.  Compared to the AmpOhm PIO’s and some of the non-metalized poly caps, Obbligato seems to have less authority and grip in these ranges as well, leading to male vocals like Leonard Cohen sounding a bit less resonant and deep as I personally prefer.  Another consequence of this is less PRAT and drive compared to some other caps, especially teflons. 

Still, Obbligato Copper is an excellent overall performer and a fantastic deal at their prices.  The caveats mentioned are shared by basically all metalized poly caps to some degree and only noticeable in direct comparison to much more expensive caps; they shoud not dissuade users from trying out these overall transparent and airy caps, which are definitely one of the few affordable references out there. 

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 13 May 2009, 05:30 am
duplicate
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 13 May 2009, 06:52 am
Thanks again for another review.  I would like to mention that I don't find too much difference between the Copper version and the Gold, but then again, the price difference is very small as well, so I tend to go with the Gold.  I find the Obbligatos to be great metallized poly caps, and I find no major benefit to spend more on other metalized poly caps.  For some reason, my ears do not like what the Sonicaps and Auricaps do to the sound in comparison to the Obbligatos.  The Obbligato Oil caps actually emphasize the mids at the expense of the sparkle introduced by the metallized poly, but the Oils are an excellent alternative if the Gold or Copper caps are brighter than you like.  It also doesn't hurt that the Oil caps are even cheaper. 

I've also been running the Ampohm Tin foil caps, and they really sound great.  Like most oil caps, they need to be used in moderation.  I'm liking the richness of tone.  While there is slight roll off in both extremes as mentioned before, it is nowhere near as bad as other oil caps I've tried.  Like topround, I thought about adding a teflon but haven't got around to it yet.  I am a bit worried the bypass would take away much of the appeal of the cap. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 13 May 2009, 07:15 am
Jon

the outer casing of caps, do they not influence their innards "musicality" by their Dielectric Constant?

for instance
Cotton 1.3-1.4
Paper (Dry ) 2.0
Polyethylene 2.2-2.4
Polypropylene 1.5
Polyvinyl Chloride 3.4
Copper Catalyst 6.0 - 6.2
Copper Oxide 18.1   from http://www.clippercontrols.com/info/dielectric_constants.html#V
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BillB on 13 May 2009, 12:41 pm
Hmm, this makes me wonder.

I have a preamp that uses small caps on the input (.33uf) and 1uf on the output. I was going to do ampohm aluminums on both ends but now I am wondering if I should do a film on the input and the oil cap on the output?

Maybe do the ampohm PP input with a bypass PIO?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 21 May 2009, 09:51 am
Anyone ever try the Stealth caps from TRT?
I may order some to try.
According to them, they are great(of course) :D

Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 21 May 2009, 12:12 pm
Quote
All StealthCaps are custom hand crafted to order. Due to very high worldwide demand, manufacturing lead times (waiting list queues) usually run about 6 weeks.
High demand, I'm not sure if anyone here has ever heard of them besides Mike.   :scratch:  :icon_lol:

Can't hurt to try, they're not horribly expensive compared to Duelund or Clarity MR's.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 21 May 2009, 09:23 pm
They sure are Stealthy :icon_lol:there is no info to be found anywhere about them!
One has to trust I guess :|
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: shawnds on 22 May 2009, 01:59 am
 aa I have instaled the Aluminum Amp ohm in my Altec amps and they sound alot like the jensen aluminum . But the midrange is better . Upper and lower are rolled off a little And they have about 20 hours on them and they haven't bloomed out like the jensen alum but I'll keep waiting. Wonder how those paper in wax caps they have are like?
The first driver coupling cap I had in my altecs were paper in wax and the midrange was air city!
 I may try the paper WAX AMPOHM . they may be better than the oil for all i know.
Shawn
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 22 May 2009, 02:32 am
aa I have instaled the Aluminum Amp ohm in my Altec amps and they sound alot like the jensen aluminum . But the midrange is better . Upper and lower are rolled off a little And they have about 20 hours on them and they haven't bloomed out like the jensen alum but I'll keep waiting. Wonder how those paper in wax caps they have are like?
The first driver coupling cap I had in my altecs were paper in wax and the midrange was air city!
 I may try the paper WAX AMPOHM . they may be better than the oil for all i know.
Shawn

It was a rather long break-in period for me, but things opened up in both directions.  It never gets to "air city" but it does what it does very well.  Please update us as the hours add up.

The Jupiter and the Ampohm wax caps would be a nice comparison. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 22 May 2009, 08:43 am
...I think you'll like the AmpOhm TIN foil PIO.  I really like how *music* happens in my room with this cap, and I simply have not been able to bring myself to take it out to try the next cap...

Do AmpOhm make a copper foil cap? The Tin foil PIOs sound like a great cap... based on your positive experience with the tin, do you think it would be worth holding out for the copper version? I'm not sure if one already exists or is even in the works if it doesn't already exist.

How do the AmpOhm compare with the Mundorf Silver in Oil? The Mundorfs seem like they may mate with my system well, but are a bit pricey. AmpOhm prices seem very reasonable.

I, too, am a fan of the Jensen copper PIOs. Funny I don't actually have any running in my system right now. A very musical and natural sounding cap if it synergizes with your system. The AN Kit One 300B with Jensen Copper PIOs on Klipsch Heresies did that hypnotic SET thing that was so captivating.

Best,
KT

Ampohm announced yesterday 22nd May that they are finally launching a range of paper-in-oil, copper-foil capacitors in 630V (0.001uF to 1.0uF) and 300V (2.2uF to 10.0uF).

These should be in circulation by end of June 2009 or possibly early July.

See: http://www.audiocap.net/news117.htm

Cheers,

Matthew
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 22 May 2009, 07:14 pm
aa I have instaled the Aluminum Amp ohm in my Altec amps and they sound alot like the jensen aluminum . But the midrange is better . Upper and lower are rolled off a little And they have about 20 hours on them and they haven't bloomed out like the jensen alum but I'll keep waiting. Wonder how those paper in wax caps they have are like?
The first driver coupling cap I had in my altecs were paper in wax and the midrange was air city!
 I may try the paper WAX AMPOHM . they may be better than the oil for all i know.
Shawn

It was a rather long break-in period for me, but things opened up in both directions.  It never gets to "air city" but it does what it does very well.  Please update us as the hours add up.

The Jupiter and the Ampohm wax caps would be a nice comparison.

I have the AmpOhm wax next in cue, and of course, I already have the Jupiter. 
 
I'll have to try the new copper AmpOhm :drool:

HowEVer...  I took a detour trying the Naked Russian K72 teflons (courtesy of Josh K), but bypassed with 2200 pF FT1 Teflon.  KILLER stuff, but needs the teflon bypass.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 22 May 2009, 07:35 pm
Just ordered some 1.0uF copper Obbligato's to try out as coupling caps in my DAC. We'll see how it works out.

Bob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 22 May 2009, 08:08 pm
Ampohm announced yesterday 22nd May that they are finally launching a range of paper-in-oil, copper-foil capacitors in 630V (0.001uF to 1.0uF) and 300V (2.2uF to 10.0uF).

Thank you for the information. It seemed like they would eventually introduce a copper version if they already had tin and aluminum. I'm curious if they'll be a big step up or just slightly different.

The new beeswax caps look promising, too. So many choices!

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 23 May 2009, 02:46 am
aa I have instaled the Aluminum Amp ohm in my Altec amps and they sound alot like the jensen aluminum . But the midrange is better . Upper and lower are rolled off a little And they have about 20 hours on them and they haven't bloomed out like the jensen alum but I'll keep waiting. Wonder how those paper in wax caps they have are like?
The first driver coupling cap I had in my altecs were paper in wax and the midrange was air city!
 I may try the paper WAX AMPOHM . they may be better than the oil for all i know.
Shawn

It was a rather long break-in period for me, but things opened up in both directions.  It never gets to "air city" but it does what it does very well.  Please update us as the hours add up.

The Jupiter and the Ampohm wax caps would be a nice comparison.

I have the AmpOhm wax next in cue, and of course, I already have the Jupiter. 
 
I'll have to try the new copper AmpOhm :drool:

HowEVer...  I took a detour trying the Naked Russian K72 teflons (courtesy of Josh K), but bypassed with 2200 pF FT1 Teflon.  KILLER stuff, but needs the teflon bypass.

What value K72 is it?  I need to check my FT1 teflons to see if they can have their clothes taken off too.  I've been using the teflons nude in 0.1uf, but I haven't tried any bypass of it.  I didn't think it would need a bypass, but I guess I should try it out!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 May 2009, 03:53 am
aa I have instaled the Aluminum Amp ohm in my Altec amps and they sound alot like the jensen aluminum . But the midrange is better . Upper and lower are rolled off a little And they have about 20 hours on them and they haven't bloomed out like the jensen alum but I'll keep waiting. Wonder how those paper in wax caps they have are like?
The first driver coupling cap I had in my altecs were paper in wax and the midrange was air city!
 I may try the paper WAX AMPOHM . they may be better than the oil for all i know.
Shawn

It was a rather long break-in period for me, but things opened up in both directions.  It never gets to "air city" but it does what it does very well.  Please update us as the hours add up.

The Jupiter and the Ampohm wax caps would be a nice comparison.

I have the AmpOhm wax next in cue, and of course, I already have the Jupiter. 
 
I'll have to try the new copper AmpOhm :drool:

HowEVer...  I took a detour trying the Naked Russian K72 teflons (courtesy of Josh K), but bypassed with 2200 pF FT1 Teflon.  KILLER stuff, but needs the teflon bypass.

What value K72 is it?  I need to check my FT1 teflons to see if they can have their clothes taken off too.  I've been using the teflons nude in 0.1uf, but I haven't tried any bypass of it.  I didn't think it would need a bypass, but I guess I should try it out!

It's the nude 0.1 uF K72.  What are you using to wrap the nude cap into some sort of casing? I couldn't really find a good way to do this, somewhat airtight.   

I found the nude K72 to be extraordinarily smooth and grain-free, way more so than the steel-covered K72, but perhaps a bit too smooth.  2200 pF FT-1 is essentially the same as K72 internally and does the trick to bring back just enough of the air and sparkle; I wouldn't nude the FT-1 for bypass duty since I suspect the overall cap/casing is giving the effect needed.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 26 May 2009, 12:37 am
Just replaced my Ampohm Tin in Oil .10 coupling caps in my Quicksilver MX190 with Audio cap Theta's.
After the first 10 seconds I was mighty impressed.
Of course they have to still settle in, but what I got was air, extension, deep bass, and just wonderful dynamics.
In my amp the paper in oil Ampohms were sucking the life out of it.
These Theta's seem like they are going to work out well!
Thanks Jon!

Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 26 May 2009, 08:48 am
Ampohm announced yesterday 22nd May that they are finally launching a range of paper-in-oil, copper-foil capacitors in 630V (0.001uF to 1.0uF) and 300V (2.2uF to 10.0uF).

Thank you for the information. It seemed like they would eventually introduce a copper version if they already had tin and aluminum. I'm curious if they'll be a big step up or just slightly different.

The new beeswax caps look promising, too. So many choices!

Best,
KT

I can't really comment on the whether they will be a big step up, as I've not even had sight of pre-production samples (ho hum).

What I can say, is that the pricing differential is about the same between copper and tin as it is between tin and aluminium, but with a steeper curve on price at the higher capacitance values. Certainly Ampohm seem to want a very sensible spectrum of options.

There's also talk of a paper-in-wax copper-foil range, which could be interesting....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 26 May 2009, 04:16 pm
Thanks Jon for taking the time to check them out!  I think I will have to try the nude K72s with an SSG bypass. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 26 May 2009, 09:56 pm
Thanks Jon for taking the time to check them out!  I think I will have to try the nude K72s with an SSG bypass.

I tried the nude 0.1uf FT3 with ~2200pf SSG (I forget the exact value off the top of my head) and barely heard a difference.  I'm curious what you will find. 

With the SSG, I desoldered the tabs (they come right off) and soldered a wire inside the hole.  There's a separate lead similar to the K72 that protrudes from the hole, so this method allows wire to directly connect to the lead instead of passing through the tabs.  I'm not sure I heard much of a difference compared to the Teflons, but I suppose a different pair of ears may detect something.  It may be worth a try since it is much less of a hassle compared to modding the FT3/K72 teflon caps. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 27 May 2009, 03:37 am
Just replaced my Ampohm Tin in Oil .10 coupling caps in my Quicksilver MX190 with Audio cap Theta's.
After the first 10 seconds I was mighty impressed.
Of course they have to still settle in, but what I got was air, extension, deep bass, and just wonderful dynamics.
In my amp the paper in oil Ampohms were sucking the life out of it.
These Theta's seem like they are going to work out well!
Thanks Jon!

Mike

As I posted lo these many pages ago  :) , I replaced Sonic Cap Platinums (Teflon) with AudioCap PCUs in a pair of Dodd Mono-blocks and got increased resolution, extension and dynamics, plus a more natural tonality. Hasn't anyone else tried them? I'd love to hear others' opinions of them.

Rob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 27 May 2009, 04:13 am
I swapped out my Sonicaps in my dodds and went with a mixture of mundorfs and K40 russian caps
After many many hrs of break in the system is starting to strut  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 27 May 2009, 03:40 pm
My new babies arrived today(big blue). 

(http://face.cleanandquiet.com/store/Cap%20Comparison.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Joey B on 27 May 2009, 05:35 pm
After 4 weeks of burning the 2.0 uf Audiocap Theta bypassed by .1 uf FT-3 teflon that I  installed my NOS dac they seem to be fully burned in . They never seemed harsh during that whole period . Certain frequency ranges seemed under developed until full burnin occurred .

Jon L's description of them sounding ravishing is about as close as I could come to describing them , so I'll stick with that .

Thanks Jon for the recommendation , they are really the frosting on the cake .

Joey B.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 May 2009, 04:09 am
Thanks Jon for taking the time to check them out!  I think I will have to try the nude K72s with an SSG bypass.

I tried the nude 0.1uf FT3 with ~2200pf SSG (I forget the exact value off the top of my head) and barely heard a difference.  I'm curious what you will find. 


Hey, why are you guys bypassing teflons with SSG (silver micas)?  I think SSG's treble is on the feathery and cottony side, unlikely to provide the teflon sparkle of FT-1 bypass. 

Both Josh K and dweekie, PM me your shipping addresses again.  I think I have a couple extra pairs of FT-1 1200 pF/600V caps I can send your way  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: sherod on 30 May 2009, 09:51 am
JonL,
  Looking forward to your impressions of the Claritycap MR caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Brown on 30 May 2009, 01:18 pm
Just thougt all would be curious to know that finally after 1200 hours the Vcaps have stopped changing. The result breathtaking. I was beginning to think they were not all they aere toted to be. Well to date in my application [ input and driver tubes, SET amp ] .47 & .1 respectively.
   Next up are the Euro oil caps from Reference Audio Mods. Let ya know if they equal the V-cap Teflons.  At $95 each worth a go.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 30 May 2009, 01:21 pm
I don't believe he will be reviewing Clarity MR's, they don't make any values small enough for him to use.  I've used them in electronics and loudspeakers and haven't heard anything better yet. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: sherod on 31 May 2009, 05:31 am
I currently have the Claritycap MR in my preamp outputs. Very musical and far superior to the Hovlands that were previously in there. I've ordered some Duelund VSF to try out in my Reference 3a Dulcet speakers. The President of Reference 3a just told me that his favorite caps on his speaker tweeters are, in order of preference :
    1. Duelund Copper Cast
    2. Duelund Copper VSF
    3. Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold Oil
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 31 May 2009, 01:41 pm
I found that MR's have a much larger soundstage, better defined imaging, and are more transparent than copper VSF's.  The only thing that VSF's have over MR's is slightly better tonality.  I may be picking up some CAST's to try out soon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: topround on 31 May 2009, 02:57 pm
Jon,
I just installed the Mundorf Silver oil caps in the input position in my amp.
Wow, Very open, detailed, black background and great textured bass, they have about 10 hours on them, so they will probably only get better.

Ordered some Stealth caps for my pre, they are unknown caps, so I am taking a chance, will let you know.

Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 31 May 2009, 08:49 pm
I'm waiting for some 3.3uFd V-Cap oils bypassed with .22uFd Sonicap Platinums for my Valab DAC.  When it's all done, I'm then going to cryo the whole unit.  I've had great success with that and it's soo easy for me to do. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: sherod on 31 May 2009, 08:53 pm
I'd like to know how those Stealthcaps sound after some break-in. I believe these are the ones from Peter Moncrieff, right? I'm hoping that with the Claritycap MR caps in my preamp and the Duelund VSF in my speaker crossover, the combination will give me the best of both worlds. We'll see...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 31 May 2009, 10:58 pm
jtwrace,

That's the same combination I plan to try in my Havana DAC (different values though), so I'd be interested to hear what your take on the sonics is like.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 31 May 2009, 11:07 pm
jtwrace,

That's the same combination I plan to try in my Havana DAC (different values though), so I'd be interested to hear what your take on the sonics is like.

-- Jim

I will report back when they are complete. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 5 Jun 2009, 11:00 pm
Russian K72 Teflon Capacitor "Nude"

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8489/img0423m.jpg)

I always had a soft spot for the Russian K72 teflon capacitor, which was the original Russian teflon wonder that DIY'ers picked up on, and the rest is history.  It had tons of detail and dynamics, but it had a tendency for a bit of hardness and etch, which some suspected was partly due to its thick steel case and metal posts.

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4706/img5816mk4.jpg)

I was able to test the "nude" K72 that has been de-cased and de-posted (courtesy of Josh K), and I must say this version loses most of the hardness and etch of the stock unit.  After a long break-in, the sound is almost creamy-smooth in the low-treble and upper-midrange while the detail and dynamics remain. 

What I have always liked about the Russian teflons, including K72 and FT3, was that while they don't quite have the air and refinement of the VCaps or Auricap Teflon, they actually had a bolder and more robust presentation that projected more forward with arguably a more involving mien.  Now with the nude mod adding smoothness, K72 must certainly be *the* giant-killer, right?

Well, almost.  The nude mod ended up sounding a little too creamy and smooth up top.  There was terrific detailing right up to the midrange, but the triangles, cymbals, and violin's upper harmonics did not ring clear in sparkling fashion.  Wait!  I have heard a very similar sound previously... It was the Audiocap Theta, and adding a small FT-1 teflon bypass capacitor was the sweet answer then, so I tried the same with the nude K72. 

2200 pF FT-1 Teflon Capacitor

(http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/8381/img6248et9.jpg)

Holy Batman, now things were really cooking.  Since FT-1 is basically the same internally as K72, adding the bypass did not result in any appreciable incoherence or discontinuity, just adding that last breath of air, upper harmonics, and sparkle.  The resulting sound was at once robust, dense, detailed, and airy, while being as smooth as baby's behind.  I really liked the results, and if you have some K72's, I highly encourage you to crack open the case and add the FT-1 teflon bypass. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kkf on 8 Jun 2009, 01:55 am
thanks for the info and the work :P
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 8 Jun 2009, 05:38 pm
Wow, great writeup on the Russian Teflon, Jon.

Do you recommend any sort of protection for the nude cap, from oxidation for example? Maybe dipping in wax or coating with varnish?

I saw a website once where the guy nuded some of his caps and put them into custom-turned wood cylinders. I believe he sealed them with wax afterward (can't remember). The project seemed very craftsman-like, and made sense to protect the caps. How the mod changed the sound of the caps is, of course, a point of discussion, but it seems to be a viable way to protect the nude cap if needed.

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 8 Jun 2009, 10:11 pm

Do you recommend any sort of protection for the nude cap, from oxidation for example? Maybe dipping in wax or coating with varnish?


Remembe what these look like inside.
(http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6023/teflons46bf7f55yf7.jpg)

Coating with varnish is a nice idea, but wax is probably going to be too soft. 

Hot glue was tried, which just doesn't stick well after a while. 

I couldn't find the right size heatshrink for these, and even if I could, one would have to seal the ends with something. 

A low-tech approach is to just mummy-wrap with electrical tape tightly, mainly for mechanical protection, not being air-tight.  Remember it's aluminum foil inside, not copper.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 9 Jun 2009, 03:11 am
I can't remember if I detailed how I took apart the teflon cap.  It is really straight forward but takes a bit of effort (patience daniel-san).  I can do another and hopefully take pictures to detail it if you guys are interested.

I read that some wrapped the caps in boxing tape after taken apart and then seal the ends with hot glue.  That is what I did.  The cap will actually unravel like a toilet paper roll if you don't wrap them in something.  Be careful also to not let any of the foil fall out.  It looks as though there are some small pieces of foil wrapped in the end, probably to trim out the value to be within spec.

I used hot glue to seal the end and it actually makes the boxing tape melt.  The boxing tape is wider than the cap is long, which means you will have extra length on both ends that you can fill with something to seal the ends.  When you put hot glue in this the tape melts into the glue.  I would have thought that would hold.  Maybe some else has a better idea?


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 9 Jun 2009, 10:42 am
I would advise to take low dielectric constant materials to protect the nude caps and if possible with damping resonance properties
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 10 Jun 2009, 09:00 pm
I would advise to take low dielectric constant materials to protect the nude caps and if possible with damping resonance properties

Which do you suggest?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Occam on 10 Jun 2009, 10:47 pm
Howzabout teflon tape, possibly the thicker yellow gas line version. I hear tell its dielectric properties are quite good. FWIW
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 10 Jun 2009, 10:57 pm
What do you use to keep that from coming unraveled?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 11 Jun 2009, 03:33 pm
I see nothing wrong with packaging tape.  3M Scotch Packaging tape is made from polypropylene.  Datasheet here.

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?6666660Zjcf6lVs6EVs666&y1COrrrrQ-

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rajacat on 11 Jun 2009, 03:44 pm
How about this self bonding rigging tape? I've used this in marine applications and it's very easy to use and should have good vibration absorbing qualities.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=14638&familyName=Rubbaweld%26reg%3B+Rigging+and+Mast+Boot+Tape

-Roy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 13 Jun 2009, 05:04 am
I found the article about the wood-encased capacitor. Here is the link:

http://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/elna_inhout_en.shtml

http://www.dhtrob.com/keesolaf/elco_en.shtml

http://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/elna1_en.shtml

What do you think?

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Jun 2009, 01:22 am
jtwrace,

That's the same combination I plan to try in my Havana DAC (different values though), so I'd be interested to hear what your take on the sonics is like.

-- Jim

Jim,

I did the upgrade and am realy impressed.  I cryo'd the whole unit while I was doing this.  Anyway, everything that I've read that it would do, it's done!  Get's better every day...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 19 Jun 2009, 02:30 am
What do you use to keep that from coming unraveled?
The thicker version that Paul speaks of is unlikely to unravel if applied with some tension. I used the yellow variety on the ends of jantzens and it is still holding after several months. I had the unit in question open a month ago. I will be performing more "surgery" in the next few days, so if I see any issues, I will report back. But, I doubt it. I use this stuff at work all the time.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Jun 2009, 03:35 am
ERO KP1832 Polypropylene Film and Foil Capacitor

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/905/img0424pxk.jpg)

This "KP" series capacitor is a genuine film and foil capacitor, unlike the metallized polypropylene "MKP" capacitors.  It's difficult to find a consistent source for these NOS capacitors, but they often turn up on eBay in small uF values and have long been considered excellent-sounding in DIY circles. 

Due to their small values, they are mostly used as bypass capacitors, and this is how I have tested them as well.  So far, my favorite bypass capacitor has been the Russian FT-1 teflons, which simply shines when bypassing certain capacitors, e.g. Russian "nude" K72 teflons or Audiocap Theta.  However, there are other capacitors that sound too different from FT-1 as to end up sounding incoherent when thus bypassed.

This is where a nice polypropylene film and foil capacitor like KP1832 can come in handy.  It lacks that slightly artificial glint metallized poly caps can impart while still extending the upper frequency and air.  Its sound is quite natural and not showy at all, which may not give an ear-grabbing, exciting presentation, but it certainly does its job. 

A good bypass cap applied correctly, with some luck thrown in, does not make the sound brighter like some may think, but it actually makes the lower-treble to upper-midrange area sound even smoother.  It's almost as if some of the peakiness in that range moves over to the very high treble, which translates into more ambience and sense of space.  I have heard similar effects with speakers when adding in a good supertweeter, not turned up too high of course. 

An example of a good capacitor that benefits from a bypass capacitor like this is the Jupiter Beewax capacitor.  This is a capacitor I have always liked due to its natural tone and plenty of lively treble presentation.  When compared to good teflon, it does seem a bit less ruler-flat through the upper ranges with some of the very top-end ambience muted.  Bypassing the Jupiter capacitor with ERO KP1832 resulted in a more linear and smooth sound with better ambience and air, making a good capacitor even better.  KP1832 is so promising as bypass, I hope to try them as coupling capacitors, but larger values do not seem easy to come by unfortunately. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 23 Jun 2009, 05:14 am
Just to add a short list of some other polypropylene film/foil caps.....

One of the most readily available low-cost film/foil capacitors is the Dayton series (http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-film-capacitors.cfm).  I've been meaning to try these out some time, but I haven't had a reason to use them.  I've read some good things about them.  Be careful since only the ones I linked are film/foil, whereas the other Dayton caps are metalized.

The orange drop 716P is probably a better known film/foil cap with a love/hate reputation.  The Panasonic ecqp series is another one, but that went out of production at the end of last year.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 23 Jun 2009, 05:21 pm
Ampohm announced yesterday 22nd May that they are finally launching a range of paper-in-oil, copper-foil capacitors in 630V (0.001uF to 1.0uF) and 300V (2.2uF to 10.0uF).

Thank you for the information. It seemed like they would eventually introduce a copper version if they already had tin and aluminum. I'm curious if they'll be a big step up or just slightly different.

The new beeswax caps look promising, too. So many choices!

Best,
KT

Well the Ampohm Paper-in-oil Copper Foil (PF-XCU Series) caps are finally through production. Ampohm are also producing silver lead-out versions (PF-XCU-S Series):

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=19819)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 24 Jun 2009, 03:41 pm
Just to add a short list of some other polypropylene film/foil caps.....

One of the most readily available low-cost film/foil capacitors is the Dayton series (http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-film-capacitors.cfm).  I've been meaning to try these out some time, but I haven't had a reason to use them.  I've read some good things about them.  Be careful since only the ones I linked are film/foil, whereas the other Dayton caps are metalized.

The orange drop 716P is probably a better known film/foil cap with a love/hate reputation.  The Panasonic ecqp series is another one, but that went out of production at the end of last year.

The Evox Rifa PFR series is "true" polypropylene fil-foil. Downside is that they only cover the 0.1nF to 22nF range. Excellent dU/dt, though. Datasheet: http://www.audiocap.net/pfr.pdf
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 29 Jun 2009, 12:42 pm
Just kind of curious.  I see tolerances of anywhere from 2 percent to 20 percent in the caps mentioned.  Changing the value of a capacitor will pretty obviously change the circuit operation aside from the composition of the part in question.

Nowhere to I see any mention of exact matching of values between samples to assure that the test was not just listening to value changes, not something more subtile.

Capacitors are the values they are, not the values printed on them.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

 As a read this thread I was wondering how many pages would pass before someone mentioned the obvious. If the pictures of all the various caps are of the caps under test I see value differences from .047uf to 2.7uf...  If these are the values used this entire reveiw is totally flawed. To properly do a reasonable comparison the value of the caps would have to at least be within 10%. In reality 1% would be better.
    I commend Jon the reveiwer for his efforts and much of his basic opinions on the differences in cap signatures ring true with my own experience. But any of the caps used that were not of the "proper and equal value" for the application were not given a fighting chance.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 Jun 2009, 08:18 pm
Just kind of curious.  I see tolerances of anywhere from 2 percent to 20 percent in the caps mentioned.  Changing the value of a capacitor will pretty obviously change the circuit operation aside from the composition of the part in question.

Nowhere to I see any mention of exact matching of values between samples to assure that the test was not just listening to value changes, not something more subtile.

Capacitors are the values they are, not the values printed on them.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

 If the pictures of all the various caps are of the caps under test I see value differences from .047uf to 2.7uf... 

Umm, I hope you don't think all those caps are being used in the same place.

In my testing setup with different gear, there are mainly 3 different places that require different capacitor values. 

 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 30 Jun 2009, 01:50 am


Umm, I hope you don't think all those caps are being used in the same place.

In my testing setup with different gear, there are mainly 3 different places that require different capacitor values.

 Well that would be just as confusing for the end result. For a proper analysis all the possible variables should be limited as much as possible. In other words the exact same value caps, used in the exact same location, in the exact same gear with no other system changes involved source to speakers from the first cap to the last. Like I said I commend you for your efforts but in reality the setup is completely flawed.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 30 Jun 2009, 02:10 am


Umm, I hope you don't think all those caps are being used in the same place.

In my testing setup with different gear, there are mainly 3 different places that require different capacitor values.

 Well that would be just as confusing for the end result. For a proper analysis all the possible variables should be limited as much as possible. In other words the exact same value caps, used in the exact same location, in the exact same gear with no other system changes involved source to speakers from the first cap to the last. Like I said I commend you for your efforts but in reality the setup is completely flawed.   

Boy, that sure is glass-half-empty.  I do compare the caps in exact same position with same variables.  However, that limits the usefulness of your findings to only that exact same position in that exact setup. 

Therefore, whenever possible and available, I try to compare different sizes of the same caps in different positions in different gear with different uF requirements and function.  I semi-literally have tons of capacitors, of which only a small fraction is shown in the photo you're talking about.

This helps to confirm and contrast my initial findings and can be very illuminating.  Obviously, this method cannot be all-encompassing or "perfect," but I do not believe it's possible to come up with a perfect method that everyone will agree on.  Of course, everyone is perfectly welcome and encouraged to do their own experiments and add to the experience pool, which cannot help but be subjective sound impressions.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 30 Jun 2009, 02:33 am
 I'm not all together sure we are dealing with a glass that has anything in it at all ;)

 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 30 Jun 2009, 01:47 pm
I'm not all together sure we are dealing with a glass that has anything in it at all ;)

 

I think your missing the

Quote
I do compare the caps in exact same position with same variables.

You seem like you want to hastily throw out his subjective results.  Do you have an axe?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 30 Jun 2009, 04:08 pm
Josh,

Yes, Mr. O. always has an axe handy, and showing up here with only a half dozen posts to his name and already swinging it should give you some idea of where things are headed.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: hotroady on 30 Jun 2009, 10:28 pm
I'm really enjoying your efforts and this thread, Jon. :thumb: Can't wait for your impression of Amp copper foil.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Jul 2009, 03:56 pm
:thumb: Can't wait for your impression of Amp copper foil.

Me, too!  The AmpOhm copper is hooked up to my burn-in device as we speak  :green:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Cruzer on 14 Jul 2009, 08:02 pm
:thumb: Can't wait for your impression of Amp copper foil.

Me, too!  The AmpOhm copper is hooked up to my burn-in device as we speak  :green:
Great thread, THX Jon L...

Maybe is this the way to "dress up" K-72 capacitor..
With hot wax..

http://www.rhsdesign.com/celebrityreplicas/pdf/RHSReplicaCaps.pdf

For cap housing you can cut a piece of a wooden broomstick of suitable diameter and drill a hole in it.. aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 16 Jul 2009, 11:28 pm
AmpOhm Copper Foil Paper-In-Oil Capacitor

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7483/img0723w.jpg)

The AmpOhm line of oil capacitors has been a great find for current-production, modern, oil capacitors that sound excellent at reasonable prices.  The build quality is quite superb for the prices, and there have been no long-term-listening surprises or letdowns, either. 

So when the copper foil version of the AmpOhm PIO's became available, I had to give it a good listen and compare to the other versions.  After the obligatory burn-in period, I directly compared the copper version with the tin foil version, changing back-and-forth. 

I would say the difference in character between copper and tin is larger than between tin and aluminum, yet all three versions share similar presentations, which is no doubt due to the exactly identical construction except for the foil material.  All share a well-balanced clarity with great detail resolution, at least for PIO's, and above all, music is well-served.  This does not make it any easier to describe precisely how the copper and tin sound different, but I do have a few observations.

With the copper, there is a little more attention-grabbing presence or copper-glow, mainly in the midrange, which can be described as slightly rounder yet with a fraction more detailing of the texture.  Both female and male voices step forward half a step closer while the high and low frequencies remain similar to the tin foil version.  This "mien," if you will, is mildly reminiscent of the Jensen copper PIO, yet the AmpOhm copper seems to have better clarity and extension at both ends of the spectrum.   

However, it is difficult to say whether the copper version is conclusively "better" than the other versions because they are sufficiently different that one can work better than the other in a given system configuration.  While the tin foil version is a little less attention-grabbing, in certain situations, it's slightly more self-effacing demeanor may go a long way.  Fortunately, all these versions are well-priced that one can try them all and choose the most synergistic part for his musical tastes.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: hotroady on 17 Jul 2009, 12:59 am
Cool! been waiting for your review. Midrange  is where I'd want to a little more presence.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 17 Jul 2009, 09:19 am
Excellent posting - and I very happy to hear that all three foil types have specific pros and cons. Makes for a more interesting world  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: muralman1 on 23 Jul 2009, 04:31 pm
I have been on the sidelines here, reading with interest. It is obvious to me, people will choose capacitors for a sound that they are aiming for. I know people who have piled on Black Gate caps, and very expensive foil in oil caps into their DACs. They are looking for romance. Their music is warm, musical, and precious.

I want neutral realism. Trumpets must blare. Rim shots must punctuate. Voices must be naked. Using a lower grade DAC than my companions, I found the replacement of old school diodes for much more expressive diodes gave me what I wanted. 

The same goes for my amp. For bypass caps, all the advice I had been getting was go for the Mundorfs. I tried those. They were pretty sounding. Others said the V-Caps have stole the day. I tried those. They were jack booted in their delivery. On a whim, I tried the Sonicap Platinum caps. They stayed. The resultant sound is dynamic, highly resolving, and accurate. What they do that foil in oil can't is provide that concise attack in percussion that underscores the movement in most music.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 Aug 2009, 03:24 am
Jupiter Beewax Paper HT Capacitor

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8143/img1121z.jpg)

While I have always liked the Juper Beewax capacitor?s sonics, the original version?s construction quality left a lot to be desired, especially its reported weakness in hot environments.  It really did feel like a candlestick wrapped in paper and was not recommended to be used near hot tubes or resistors; however, its presentation was very pleasing and non-artificial, devoid of any plasticky signature or hype. 

Fortunately, the Jupiter capacitor has been redesigned using a reinforced and improved beeswax paper as well as a non-drip casing rated for higher operating temperatures.  The older version was not recommended for temperature greater than 110 F, but the new version is reported safe up to 176 F.  In addition, all the new versions come with solid-silver leadout wires terminating the aluminum foil, whereas the older version came with either copper or silver wires.  It really appears to be a completely new design, as one can see from the picture below of the old and new design in the same uF/voltage value.

(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/4019/img1122.jpg)

The big question is, were they able to reduce the size and reinforce the construction, yet not lose any of the sonic charm of the original?  I?m happy to report ?yes? to that question along with some other observations.  The old and new sound very, very similar, so much so it?s splitting hairs.  Both still have a warm, dense, natural midrange with a lot of nice texturing and richness that?s not distant or cool.  While not super-defined like teflons, the bass has that woody, unforced roundness many people seek for acoustic bass, and the overall gestalt builds the music from ground (bass) up.  While those who love the treble presentation of teflons and polystyrenes may complain the Jupiter is not as sparkly and obviously airy, there is still a lot of treble information and detail present, especially up to mid-treble.  Poor recordings that?s simply intolerable can find a measure of forgiveness with the Jupiter.     

Is there any sonic difference with the new version?  Well, it?s nothing to write home about, but the new version may have a touch smoother low-treble/upper-mids while the old version may be slightly more lively.  While I do believe this smoother presentation in the upper-mids of the new version is due to more high treble extension, I would hesitate to bet any significant amount of money on anyone being able tell them apart reliably.  Another confounding factor is that the old version I have has copper leadouts while the new ones all come with silver.  It's possible this alone could account for some of the perceived difference.   

I have written before about how bypassing the old Jupiter with ERO KP1832 Polypropylene film and foil capacitor improves the hall ambience and air, and this still holds true for the new version.  Listening closer this time, the improved upper harmonics also seems to make the bass appear tighter, which seems counter-intuitive but easily demonstrable by covering one?s tweeters and observing subjective loss of bass tightness.  At any rate, Jupiter plus a good film and foil bypass remains one of my favorites for those who want a natural, earthy sound combined with detail. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 4 Aug 2009, 07:38 am
Jon,
Do you have any plans for comparative test of the Jupiters and the Ampohm Paper-in-wax caps?
Matt
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jeffdavison on 6 Aug 2009, 04:09 pm
Ampohm now kaput???

JD
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 6 Aug 2009, 04:15 pm
It would seem so - Ampohm's machinery has been taken out of their factory and sold on.
Rather a sad day....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 6 Aug 2009, 10:32 pm
It would seem so - Ampohm's machinery has been taken out of their factory and sold on.
Rather a sad day....

OHH, NOOO!  :o

If true, get'em while you can!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kris_oslo on 10 Aug 2009, 05:09 pm
Has anyone heard the ClarityCap MR's ? Will they do justice as a pure coupling cap in a NOS dac?

Some users here say the MR is a really really good cap.

At this very moment I use Jupiter Beeswax 1uf, and they are realistic, but they do sound a little muddy and dark.

K

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 10 Aug 2009, 08:38 pm
Has anyone heard the ClarityCap MR's ? Will they do justice as a pure coupling cap in a NOS dac?

Some users here say the MR is a really really good cap.

At this very moment I use Jupiter Beeswax 1uf, and they are realistic, but they do sound a little muddy and dark.

K

My capacitor budget currently does not allow for MR's and Duelunds, but I would bypass that 1 uF Jupiter with 0.1 uF film cap before seeking something else..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 10 Aug 2009, 09:26 pm
Has anyone heard the ClarityCap MR's ? Will they do justice as a pure coupling cap in a NOS dac?

Some users here say the MR is a really really good cap.

At this very moment I use Jupiter Beeswax 1uf, and they are realistic, but they do sound a little muddy and dark.

K

My capacitor budget currently does not allow for MR's and Duelunds, but I would bypass that 1 uF Jupiter with 0.1 uF film cap before seeking something else..
If it did, you'd forget all about the rest of the silly caps mentioned here.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kris_oslo on 11 Aug 2009, 03:53 pm
Yes Jon, I will bypass the jupiters first. But the size I orderd might be wrong. EP 1832 0.015uf . Let's hope its enough...

If they tighten up the jupiters somewhat, and also give it more 'edges' and brightness I am good. The Obbligato's are a bit too edgy, makes the sound fatiguing sometimes. Probably the main fault is my AKG K 701's.

Those ClarityCap MR must be tried.... They are cheaper than mundorf sio.

K
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 12 Aug 2009, 04:13 pm
Yes Jon, I will bypass the jupiters first. But the size I orderd might be wrong. EP 1832 0.015uf . Let's hope its enough...

If they tighten up the jupiters somewhat, and also give it more 'edges' and brightness I am good. The Obbligato's are a bit too edgy, makes the sound fatiguing sometimes. Probably the main fault is my AKG K 701's.

Those ClarityCap MR must be tried.... They are cheaper than mundorf sio.

K

The often-quoted rule of thumb for bypass is 1/10 to 1/20 of the larger cap value, but it's really all try-and-see.  IME usually, the larger the bypass cap, the more of its sound signature will come through, which can be good or bad depending on the quality of the bypass and bypassed cap. 

And yeah, AKG K701 kind of sounds like Obbligato non-oil cap already.  Perhaps you are headed for the Senn HD800 (just kidding)  :green:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kris_oslo on 12 Aug 2009, 05:09 pm
hehe, but I think you are onto something. My problem is the AKG K 701, you never become happy.

The jupiters are just a tad to 'fat' sounding, so a PIO cap probably is a bit too much. Mundorf SIO might be a nice 'inbetween'. But depends on the amp.

NOS dac + ClarityCap MR coupling cap + Lehmann Linear would be a great and fun combo. But the Linear is so expensive, even while using that tad old 2134 opamp.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 13 Aug 2009, 12:10 pm

The often-quoted rule of thumb for bypass is 1/10 to 1/20 of the larger cap value, but it's really all try-and-see. 

Most of what I've seen suggests the rule of thumb to be 100:1, not to be argumentative.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 13 Aug 2009, 12:38 pm

The often-quoted rule of thumb for bypass is 1/10 to 1/20 of the larger cap value, but it's really all try-and-see. 

Most of what I've seen suggests the rule of thumb to be 100:1, not to be argumentative.
I believe that's the rule of thumb for power supplies more than speaker crossovers. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dweekie on 14 Aug 2009, 01:53 am

The often-quoted rule of thumb for bypass is 1/10 to 1/20 of the larger cap value, but it's really all try-and-see. 

Most of what I've seen suggests the rule of thumb to be 100:1, not to be argumentative.
I believe that's the rule of thumb for power supplies more than speaker crossovers.

Thumbs come in different sizes :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 14 Aug 2009, 01:58 am
That is true too.

I was under the impression of bypassing in power supply caps was to make them "quieter".  Bypassing in speaker crossovers is to change voicing. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 15 Aug 2009, 02:02 am
Russian K75-10 Hybrid Paper and Polyethylene Terephthalate In Oil Capacitor

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1782/img1153.jpg)

This Russian military capacitor is quite intriguing in its reported construction and in appearance that resembles a small grenade.  Its dielectric is claimed to be a hybrid of paper and polyethylene terephthalate, which is essentially a type of mylar, saturated in oil.  There is some debate as to which Russian "oil" capacitor is the best, and while K40Y is widely recognized and used, some report K75-10 is the premium oil capacitor out of the Russian military. 

I can report that K75-10 sounds extremely unique, quite different from K40Y PIO and any other true PIO one cares to mention, including Vitamin Q, Jensen, and AmpOhm.  It has a very saturated, colorful, textured, and detailed midrange that is thick and juicy.  While PIO's are known for their natural and smooth midrange, K75 seems to add some jest, pop, and color to the proceedings, yielding an apparently more detailed and forceful presentation.  Treble and bass is pretty good, especially for an oil cap, but the leading edges are not razor-sharp and precise like premium film caps.  Since the midrange is so involving and palpable, the lack of equal force in treble makes it seem a bit dark overall, but as one increases the volume, this becomes less of an issue, and poorly-recorded music is much more tolerable at higher volume. 

The sound is rather addicting in its presentation and can even be called delicious in what it does well, kind of reminiscent of biting into a ripe peach.  The line dividing "colorful" and "colored" is thin, and while K75-10 likely leans a bit to the latter, I quite enjoy its substantial sound and prefer it to the thin, plasticky sound many other capacitors represent.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 15 Aug 2009, 02:21 am
Interestingly, I have a whole lot of these in various sizes.  I hadn't thought to try them in coupling position.  They were always slated to be used in power supplies as they come in a varied of sizes including very large and very high voltage.  I have some 50uf 1.5KV K75s.  Those of for a big ass SET amp using GM70s or 813s.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 15 Aug 2009, 03:21 pm
Interestingly, I have a whole lot of these in various sizes.  I hadn't thought to try them in coupling position.  They were always slated to be used in power supplies as they come in a varied of sizes including very large and very high voltage.  I have some 50uf 1.5KV K75s.  Those of for a big ass SET amp using GM70s or 813s.

I do wonder what the difference among all the different K75's are.  Clearly, some are meant for high-voltage PS use, but some are spec'd and sized just right for coupling. 

K75-10 Green body
K75-15 High Voltage "tub"
K75-17 High Voltage "tub"
K75-24  Green body tubular
K75-28  High Voltage "tub"
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 15 Aug 2009, 03:25 pm
So what's a good source for these?

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 15 Aug 2009, 05:43 pm
So what's a good source for these?

-- Jim

I got mine all on epay.  KWTubes was one good source.  He is very cordial.  Shipping took a while from there, but that is par for the course when ordering from former USSR.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 15 Aug 2009, 07:18 pm
Thanks, Josh.  I just got some tubes from Bulgaria and was shocked that they got here in less than a week, and without any express shipping.

In case anybody is interested, the ebay seller is LCI electronics.  Packaging was excellent too.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 20 Aug 2009, 03:43 pm
Thanks, Josh.  I just got some tubes from Bulgaria and was shocked that they got here in less than a week, and without any express shipping.

In case anybody is interested, the ebay seller is LCI electronics.  Packaging was excellent too.

-- Jim

I have had those experiences as well.  Of course, I didn't pay attention to who was fast and who wasn't.  I've ordered from most all the major russian epayers. 

I've had good dealings with LCI as well.  Anthony Welsh is really slow but always come through.  I've good dealings with Alexer.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Aug 2009, 11:19 pm
BYPASSING WITH VCAP TEFLONS

(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2711/img1282u.jpg)

After being charmed by the K75-10 capacitor, I did try replacing them with several others but ended up missing what K75-10 does best, i.e. rich, colorful, center-of-earth midrange, with gobs of texture, which some may interpret as extra grain.  Putting the K75-10 back in, I then missed the finely-delineated upper frequencies with smooth extension other caps are blessed with. 

In the past, whenever I was faced with this type of situation, bypassing often saved the day, so I tried bypassing K75-10 with VCap teflons.  With many caps, bypassing with teflons often sound terribly disjointed and incoherent, but K75-10 sang beautifully with VCap teflons.  This combination retained all the warmth, richness, and texture of K75-10 but imbued the upper and lower frequencies with extra clarity and definition that was sorely needed.  As often is the case when high frequency harmonics are improved, the bass frequencies subjectively tightened up as well.  This pair is so attractive-sounding that I believe the combo belongs in the league of the best of the breed.  Of course, there is no guarantee this combo will work as well in one's particular gear/system, but if you find teflons too "clinical" and oilers not neutral enough, one can certainly do a lot worse.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 23 Aug 2009, 11:41 pm
What value did you use for the VH Teflon cap? 1% of the base, or 10% or?

Thanks,

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Aug 2009, 11:56 pm
What value did you use for the VH Teflon cap? 1% of the base, or 10% or?

Thanks,

Anand.

Around 10%, though I wish I had smaller VCaps to try for fun..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 24 Aug 2009, 01:47 am
Very cool Jon.  Will have to give them a try.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Asic81 on 24 Aug 2009, 04:51 am
Hi Jon
Can you bypass the K75-10 with FT-1 Russian Teflon and compare with VCap
Thanks
DN
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 24 Aug 2009, 12:48 pm
I have Multi Cap 1.0uF PPMFX's in my phono stage as output coupling caps. They generally sound very good, but were brought up a notch after I bypassed them with 0.1uF Russian Teflons (though I had mounting issues to contend with since the Russians are about the size of a cigar). Nothing disjointed about this combo.

But I have heard the Russian teflons bypassing some paper & oil caps and it didn't work as well.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kris_oslo on 24 Aug 2009, 02:50 pm
I just bypassed my 1.0uf Jupiter's with ERO KP1832 0,01uf... I agree, it really is a good combination. Even when used as coupling cap in a DAC. Usually I think bypassing makes things sound less right.

Excellent tip anyways...

K
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earplay on 31 Aug 2009, 01:56 am
The only stupid questions are those that are not asked, so this is *not* a stupid question. How do the voltage ratings of caps affect their application?

For instance, can a .47uf, 1200v cap be used in place of a .47uf, 600v cap?   :scratch:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JoshK on 31 Aug 2009, 01:59 am
In short, yes.  1200v caps can be used in lieu of 600v caps, but not necessarily the other way around.  The problem is, higher voltage caps are usually much more expensive and often much larger.  That is basically the rub.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earplay on 31 Aug 2009, 02:16 am
Well, that's the thing with Mundorf SIO caps. They come only as 1200v.

Your reply was a big help. In other words, the higher v-rated caps can handle safely more power than the lower v-rated caps. Kind of like bigger brakes can be put on a car safely, as long as they fit, but smaller brakes could get you into trouble?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earplay on 31 Aug 2009, 03:33 am
Has anyone heard the Cardas caps? I wonder how they would compare.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 2 Sep 2009, 05:44 pm
Russian K75-10 Hybrid Paper and Polyethylene Terephthalate In Oil Capacitor

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1782/img1153.jpg)

This Russian military capacitor is quite intriguing in its reported construction and in appearance that resembles a small grenade...

The sound is rather addicting in its presentation and can even be called delicious in what it does well, kind of reminiscent of biting into a ripe peach...

It's not often that you see "ripe peach" and "grenade" used in the same stream of thought.

This cap sounds intriguing; unique and colorful. I am shortly going to build a Pass Labs DIY B1 buffer, and this cap sounds like just the thing I'm looking for as the 1.0uF input cap.

The B1 is supposed to be transparent and very neutral. My sonic tastes run towards the more colorful (and maybe colored; big tube fan), and this might be the thing to add some character to the sound. I'm also considering the AmpOhm copper, and the Vit Q (which I have stocked), but this one sounds fun and delicious.

Has anyone built the Pass B1 buffer and experimented with their cap selection? I'm thinking about using a Blackgate N as the 10uF output cap, but wonder if the combo might be to warm and fuzzy.

BTW, have you ever heard of Audio1 caps? They're constructed a lot like the old Vit Q's and Westcaps, metal body with sealed ends. I had some in a Cary preamp that I own, but took them out. They sounded dark, veiled, slow, and muddy.
 
A sweep of opinions on the web at the time I purchased the Cary (used and burned in) showed that a lot of folks thought the same. I took the Audio1's out and settled on what I'm using currently - VTV Ultratones followed by Dynamicaps.

The 2uF Audio1 is big, about 4 inches long and almost 1 inch in diameter. The .1uF is smaller, but fairly sizable for that value. Was wondering if anyone had experience with these.

Best,
KT

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 2 Sep 2009, 06:05 pm
I've tried Dayton, Jantzen Standard Z, Sonic Caps, Claritycap MR, and Duelund aluminum VSF in a B1 buffer.  I thought the Standard Z's were terrible, with the Daytons not much better.  Sonic caps were ok, but the MR's and VSF's were MUCH better in comparison...as they should be.  Now that I've changed a few things around in my setup I need a little more warmth, so I will probably try out Claritycap ESA's as I'm really fond of them in my Jolida JD-9 and in loudspeakers.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 2 Sep 2009, 06:31 pm
One other "rub" in using high voltage capacitors at much less than their rated voltage.

In general they will then not operate at their rated capacitance if the voltage is too low.  It will be some randomly lower value of capacitance and thus be sure of changing the sound of your circuit design, but not in a wonderful way.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 2 Sep 2009, 06:58 pm
One other "rub" in using high voltage capacitors at much less than their rated voltage.

In general they will then not operate at their rated capacitance if the voltage is too low.  It will be some randomly lower value of capacitance and thus be sure of changing the sound of your circuit design, but not in a wonderful way.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Frank,

Can you define 'much less' ? Most speaker designs use higher voltage caps, usually 100V or more so does it affect them as well? Does a 1200VDC/800VAC Mundorf capacitor that states 1uf measure considerably different if only 400V DC (let's say in a preamp) is running through it?

Do you know of any references, or is this from your personal experience?

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earplay on 2 Sep 2009, 09:02 pm
One other "rub" in using high voltage capacitors at much less than their rated voltage.

In general they will then not operate at their rated capacitance if the voltage is too low.  It will be some randomly lower value of capacitance and thus be sure of changing the sound of your circuit design, but not in a wonderful way.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Thanks, Frank, duly noted. It even makes sense to me.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 3 Sep 2009, 08:10 am
One other "rub" in using high voltage capacitors at much less than their rated voltage.

In general they will then not operate at their rated capacitance if the voltage is too low.  It will be some randomly lower value of capacitance and thus be sure of changing the sound of your circuit design, but not in a wonderful way.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Although there are some specific issues with using over-rated (regarding voltage not quality!) electrolytic capacitors, I find it difficult to to agree with the above for film capacitors. For example, a high quality capacitance meter will measure the capacitance at a comparatively low voltage and give quite an accurate measurement of capacitance, and not a randomly lower value. Or maybe I'm missing something here....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 3 Sep 2009, 02:08 pm
Correct, the issue is mostly with electrolytic capacitors.  Hope I did not scare anyone.  :)

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 3 Sep 2009, 02:12 pm
Correct, the issue is mostly with electrolytic capacitors.  Hope I did not scare anyone.  :)

Frank Van Alstine

Only a bit ;-)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 3 Sep 2009, 03:16 pm
KT and Faith,

Thanks for the comments on caps as used in the B1.  I'm just waiting for the latest boards to come in and then I will be building my B1 too.  Not sure twhat it will be feeding yet, so I have no idea what types of caps I will use, but my sonic tastes sound very much in line with KT's.  Maybe the ampohm tin foils on the input and BG N or NX on the outs, or possibly Axon or Wimas -- again, depending on what amps I'll be using after them, which is still very much up in the air until I get to listen to the new speakers.

Thanks,

Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 3 Sep 2009, 09:02 pm
Face,

Good tip on the Janzen Standard Z in the B1 circuit.

I was initially thinking of trying the Janzen or Dynamicap as an affordable cap to start with in the B1 as I've had good success with them in some other amps I have.

I'm wondering in what way the Janzen Standard Z sounded poorly in your setup. Was it too dry and clinical? Dynamicaps, which apparently have a similar character to the Janzen, balanced out very well in my Cary preamp, but that's a tubed unit, so perhaps the virtues of tubes and Dynamicaps compliment each other. Maybe not enough breath, air, and life in the B1 via the Janzens? Curious to hear more observations.

Jim, please let keep us informed of how your cap choices work out in the B1. I've tried both the BG N and same value BG Nx on the output of a NOS DAC and recall that I preferred the N over the Nx. It's been so long now, however, that I can't really expound on it more than that... maybe that the N was somewhat more organic and less mechanical sounding than the Nx.

Best,
KT

P.S. - I just re-read Jon's observations on the Vit-Qs and think I'll try those in the B1 first. Although they didn't sing in my 300B amp, Jon's observations that they are better suited to neutral sounding circuits makes me think they might work well in the B1 buffer. I'm willing to give them another try. Still very intrigued by the K75-10, though. I noticed that these Russian caps come in 10uF as well as the lower values. Would 1.0uF input and 10uF output of K75-10 be too much flavor in one circuit?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 3 Sep 2009, 09:15 pm
I found them very rolled off on the top and bottom end.  It didn't do too favorable in the middle either.  :) 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 3 Sep 2009, 09:52 pm
Interesting. Did you have similar results with the Janzen Standard Z in other circuits, or just B1?

Also, were they as input caps, or both input and output?

Thanks for sharing your observations.

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 4 Sep 2009, 02:30 pm
No, I haven't used them in any other application yet.  And yes, they were used on input and output.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rha61 on 8 Sep 2009, 05:38 pm
another very good russian cap : the affordable K73-16 ( mylar dielectric )
i've tried the 4.7uF/63V and it's actually my favorite cap , both as by pass or in signal path

in my modded Yamaha CX1000 preamp , bypassed with 0.1uF K73-16 or FT-2 , it s simply amazing
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 10 Sep 2009, 05:37 am
The Audio Note capacitors take a long, long time to come into their own. This is certainly true of the silver/mylar caps. I guess it is now equally true of the new copper/mylar caps with the white lettering.

I can understand why someone might give up on them after a month or two of heavy use. Good things will come to those who can wait it out.  :thumb:

I got an itch to change things up and plugged in my Sun SV-300BE back into the system, and even removed the VTV Ultratones that lived in it and replaced them with the Audio Note copper foil copper-cased PIOs.

I didn't like these when I used them previously, but thought I'd give them a second chance. Well, after some more run-in, I change my mind.

Previously, I felt they sounded too stiff and tight and didn't breathe as some other PIO's do. I can now say they do sound good, but in a different way.

They have a dense, weighty sound and are tighter and more controlled than the VTVs or the Jensen coppers. Where the VTVs and Jensens are warm, lucid, ethereal, and lush, the AN coppers are taut, controlled, and bouncy, with a dose of PIO warmth and smoothness none-the-less. Acoustic instruments are presented with good body and weight. There's a sense of bounce in the bass lines which isn't a characteristic the other two caps. It may be my amp (5k output transformers with 300Bs)  but the AN's don't seem to be as airy as the others. They sure are dense and punchy in the mids and bass, though.

Different flavors of oilers. All are musical but sure different.

Guess it does pay to run some caps in for a long time. Though the ANs are starting to sound good, they are still not as open and airy as I prefer. I know, though, that even with the listening I've done recently it still represents a fairly conservative run time. I'm crossing my fingers they'll open up further with more use.

As Quiet Earth mentioned, the current AN coppers are Mylar-in-Oil, with the PIOs out of production. Apparently the paper used as of 3 or 4 years ago may have contributed to some reliability problems, so AN switched to mylar. According to the AN website, these MIOs take even longer to burn in.

Best,
KT


 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 11 Sep 2009, 07:11 pm
so AN switched to mylar. According to the AN website, these MIOs take even longer to burn in.

Best,
KT

Interesting you mention mylar.  Mylar and mylar-in-oil capacitors definitely have an interesting, unique sound, which some may find a great alternative to the paper-in-oil sound.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 15 Sep 2009, 04:17 pm
I personally have never listened to the Mylar-in-Oil but am curious to learn more about them.

We'd love to hear your assessment of the MIO sound vs. PIO.

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 15 Sep 2009, 09:55 pm
AmpOhm Polyester Film Aluminum Capacitor

(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6536/img0724.jpg)

Many people believe polyester capacitors are cheap and bad-sounding and tend to avoid anything that says "polyester"; however, most of this belief stems from bad experience with cheap polyester capacitors, not serious polyester film capacitors like the AmpOhm pictured above. 

True film polypropylene capacitors (i.e. ERO KP1832) tend to sound better than metallized polypropylene caps, and so do film polyester cap like AmpOhm compared to MKT caps.  In my experience, cheap, small MKT caps tend to sound rough, bright, and forward, lacking true extension and refinement.  Some of them do sound decent and maybe even "good", but they are not going to be mistaken for good teflons or PIO's anytime soon.  So when I first inserted the AmpOhm polyester film cap after the burn-in apparatus and heard a brightish, thin sound, I said to myself, "Yup, that sounds like polyester."  But following my usual protocol, I let the caps burn in more in the actual amp position for a long additional period. 

When I came back to the rig, I could hardly believe what's happened to the sound.  The sound gained an intense, clear, "juicy" quality that was irresistible, especially for female voices.  Upper-midrange to midrange was translucent and illuminated with glowing floodlight with every detail present yet with no grit or grain.  The tangible palpability was off the charts and perhaps one of the most "fun" times I've had with the human voice.  The degree of presence was akin to the proverbial female singer closely singing into your ears. 

This is very different from the polypropylene presentation, which does not highlight the midrange presence as much.  The treble and bass of the AmpOhm polyester cap is probably in the same ballpark as good polypropylene film caps, but the midrange is definitely something special and unique.  In addition, this is not a cap to be used lightly if you have weaknesses in digital front-end, interconnects, power conditioning, etc.  The sheer amount of detail and presence in the midrange will not be kind to hard, forward source or components, which is very different from AmpOhm PIO caps, which tend to be more forgiving of such things while remaining musically revealing.  At any rate, this capacitor has opened my eyes to polyester film capacitors, and I hope to try some others built to the same high standard in the future. 
 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: KT on 17 Sep 2009, 06:58 am
Nice update, Jon. The AmpOhm polyester sounds fantastic.

Any word on a copper version?

I suspect that all AmpOhm caps have ceased production, if the rumor is true. That means these polyester caps, too? They may be a rare commodity.

Are you aware of any other polyester caps currently in production that have a similar sound? It would be nice to get some in the future if needed.

Best,
KT
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 17 Sep 2009, 12:05 pm
Nice update, Jon. The AmpOhm polyester sounds fantastic.

Any word on a copper version?

I suspect that all AmpOhm caps have ceased production, if the rumor is true. That means these polyester caps, too? They may be a rare commodity.

Are you aware of any other polyester caps currently in production that have a similar sound? It would be nice to get some in the future if needed.

Best,
KT

KT - you are right that there is no longer any further production of these. We have a couple of hundred pieces of Ampohm Mylars in stock in values across the range, and I know that thetubestore.com also has stock of these. But that's about it at the moment - unless anyone else knows of stock elsewhere....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 19 Sep 2009, 01:30 pm
Hi Jon,

are the Ampohm Mylars oil-filled?

Thanks,
Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 21 Sep 2009, 08:25 pm
Hi Jon,

are the Ampohm Mylars oil-filled?

Thanks,
Peter

No, these particular ones are not oil-filled. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 22 Sep 2009, 07:36 am
Hi Jon,

are the Ampohm Mylars oil-filled?

Thanks,
Peter

No, these particular ones are not oil-filled.

There are two Ampohm Polyester series: Dry Mylar (which are the ones tested above) and Mylar-in-oil:

(http://www.audiocap.co.uk/ekmps/shops/audiocap/images/fexalal1uf.gif)

Jon - if you'd like me to send you a mylar-in-oil to test out, send me an email (I'd have sent this as a personal message, but that doesn't seem to be working on my computer....)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 24 Sep 2009, 11:04 am
Jon,
Samples on their way!
Matt
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 25 Sep 2009, 03:56 pm
Jon,
Samples on their way!
Matt

Thanks!  That should be interesting  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: hotroady on 25 Oct 2009, 02:29 am
I want to get Ampohms soon, but hard to decide which ones. Each new one tested, seems to improve on the characteristics I want!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JakeJ on 28 Oct 2009, 03:52 pm
Hey Jon,

Lookin' for an update on the Ampohms.  aa
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 28 Oct 2009, 10:44 pm
Hey Jon,

Lookin' for an update on the Ampohms.  aa

I'm a little bit side-tracked by my Grounded Grid preamp project at the moment, but it's coming..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 28 Oct 2009, 10:49 pm
John,

Are any of these the basic poly film cap that ampohm sells?  The ones that don't say anything about oil filled and are smaller and cheaper than the mylar/aluminum/oil?

I'm a little confused about which is which now.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JakeJ on 28 Oct 2009, 11:16 pm
Thanks, just wanted to shake the tree a bit to see what falls out.  :green:

I'm in the planning stages of a HagTech Cornet2 that will incorporate a Piccolo head amp using a Bugle PS.  I already know it ain't gonna have $550+ worth of V-Cap TFTFs in it but I'd like the initial recipe to start out nicely.  I do have some of the Russian Teflons so maybe I can get a taste what the V-Cap can do.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 2 Nov 2009, 07:19 pm
Question. I installed v-cap teflons in my amps. Now after a year or so I've learned they wre installed backwards, meaning + to - and visa versa. at this time with all the break in does anyone know if an improvement will be had if installed with the correct orientation. If so would an extensive break in be required again ? BTW they are coulping caps to the input and output tubes. .47 for input, .1 for ouput.
   Thanks for the help,


charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Browntrout on 2 Nov 2009, 10:32 pm
Try them the other way round and see. Let us know if you can hear a difference. Cheers, Ben. In fact you might as well fit new ones the right way round if you are going to the bother.
 Mega nice stereo by the way! :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 3 Nov 2009, 04:53 pm
Try them the other way round and see. Let us know if you can hear a difference. Cheers, Ben. In fact you might as well fit new ones the right way round if you are going to the bother.
 Mega nice stereo by the way! :thumb:

 Thanks Ben. Just thought I'd ask before going through the effort. I would think the only benifit would be a quieter signal due to the shielding of the cap . The only true way to tell is to change and listen as you suggested. Again trying to avoid the obvious.
 If ya ever get to NY come on over for some nice Italian food and a little listen. My pleasure.



charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 10 Nov 2009, 02:01 pm
I just discovered some great new caps!

http://www.kccaps.com

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: turkey on 10 Nov 2009, 05:15 pm
Frank, these caps are even better than the ones you found.  :D

http://www.customwheelweights.com/store/merchant.mvc?page=C/CTGY/LDVSC

Blinky lights are always a good thing.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: hotroady on 11 Nov 2009, 12:32 am
things must really slow at AVA for tweedle dee and tweedle dumb to come here to trash a good work! :nono:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mgalusha on 11 Nov 2009, 12:35 am
Frank & turkey, please keep the silly remarks out of this thread. If you have something relevant to add to the discussion that is great, but your posts about "caps" are not benefiting anyone. Please see the section in this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71571.msg668784#msg668784 about not poking fun and making childish remarks.

Thanks,

Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: juanitox on 22 Nov 2009, 05:22 pm
 :D for the specialist...   i have a 22uf ceramic coupling cap to replace
in my dac.  what will be the best solution for this value :

black gates Nx
mundorf supreme
auricap
something else ?

thanks

a cap newbie. :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 22 Nov 2009, 09:52 pm
I doubt if your 22 uF capacitor is a ceramic.  Ceramic caps are usually widely varying tolerance parts used for power supply decoupling and such.

You can probably get more help if you provide the voltage rating of the part, and whether you can tell if it is a polarized part or not.  Good quality coupling capaciators normally will be of some kind of film construction and normally will not be polarized.  It is important to know the voltage rating.

Second, if the cap in question failed, and that is why it needs replacing, you should check further to make sure that some other circuit malfunction did not cause the failure.  If you replace the part without resolving the issue, you will be testing flashbulbs.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: juanitox on 23 Nov 2009, 06:25 am
 :D yes you are right, it's not a polarized cap , and the voltage rating are 10v , it is a DC blocking cap after an opam of a dac.  it is a cms cap perhaps tantalum. everything works find  i just try to improve the sound :wink:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 23 Nov 2009, 02:41 pm
It is likely not a tantalum capacitor either, these are normally polarized and should not be used in a signal coupling application unless absolutely biased on so that the negative going waveform can never cause reverse voltage across the positive end.

Again, did the cap fail?  How do you know that it failed?  Normally a capacitor would be the last thing to actually fail in a circuit, way after active components.  It might go noisy but you would need a scope to look for that.  Power supply electrolytics do fail once in a long time, but that usually results in blown fuses and lots of smoke and sparks.

With more info, I will try to help you.

Where are all the wonder cap guys on this circle with real advice?

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 23 Nov 2009, 05:14 pm
How much room do you have?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: juanitox on 23 Nov 2009, 06:09 pm
 :nono: it is not to repair something ...

i just have a dac with one output capacitor in the signal path and want to improve the stock one with the best one possible, the DC and AC voltage are really small  around 10V .

i have all the room necessary to make a giga mods :D
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 23 Nov 2009, 07:48 pm
What kind of sound are you looking for?

What's your budget?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: juanitox on 23 Nov 2009, 08:25 pm
transparency,natural without glare or harsh highs ..
no special budget but i will not spend 1500$ for duelund capacitors :duh:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 23 Nov 2009, 09:29 pm
OK, if all you need is a couple of 22?F/10V film capacitors, there are many choices.  I am sure someone here can help you with this.

If the circuit board they are mounted on is a double sided board with plated through holes, be VERY careful removing the old capacitors as it is easy to damage the plated through holes and destroy the integrety of the board.

Frank
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 24 Nov 2009, 06:30 am
I tried 10uf Claritycap ESA's as coupling caps in a tube pre amp and was happy with the sound.  As always, YMMV.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 24 Nov 2009, 09:10 am

 :nono: it is not to repair something ...

i just have a dac with one output capacitor in the signal path and want to improve the stock one with the best one possible, the DC and AC voltage are really small  around 10V .

i have all the room necessary to make a giga mods :D


I would suggest using a pair (of inverse-connected) BG 'Ns'/'NXs' (inverse-connected means put the long lead of one cap against the short lead of the other ... this is BG's "Super-E" connection.).

Parts Connexion sells 33uF/16v 'Ns' for USD4.50 each.

Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 24 Nov 2009, 01:51 pm
Note that if you connect two capacitors in series as suggested above, the value of the capacitance will be cut in half.  The combination suggested would be half of 33 uF or 16.5 uF.  That might affect the bass pole of your unit.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 24 Nov 2009, 03:45 pm
Frank,

The Super-E connection is parallel, not series.  Basically you're halving the ESR and doubling the capacitance.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: juanitox on 24 Nov 2009, 05:00 pm
 :D thanks for the black gates combo suggestion , i also have a 0.022uf FT1 for bypassing ,  a 22uf auricap , and Panasonic MKS to try.. :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 2 Dec 2009, 05:33 pm
Anyone tried Jantzen superior z in their tube amps
or would Clarity ESA be better

I'm looking for a bit of warmth in my next cap selection but nothing to the extreme of the russian PIO
Any thoughts on the Audiocap PCU in a tube push pull amp with Solid state rectifier
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: nicoch46 on 3 Dec 2009, 03:24 pm
Jon L is in holidays ?? :) :icon_twisted: :)      we need  mylar-in-oil to test  :drool:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 4 Dec 2009, 12:04 am
I run Jantzen Superior Z in my tube DAC and tube pre. No desire to change. They replaced Sonicaps which replaced Auricaps which replaced stock. Sounded better each time to my ears.
They are in the coupling position.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 4 Dec 2009, 02:45 am
Hi Mark
Long time no talk
How's things

If you're still up for it I wanted you to swap out my caps once I decide what to get
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Dec 2009, 02:59 am
AmpOhm Polyester In Oil Aluminum Foil Capacitor

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4678/img2721fm.jpg)

It's always very interesting to compare two essentially identical capacitors that have but one difference.  In this case, one is comparing oil-impregnated polyester vs. dry polyester used as dielectric.  The dry polyester film AmpOhm, as noted previously, is a very clear, detailed, and "present" capacitor, especially in the midrange; it will light a fire under dull, grey harmonics and shine a floodlight on lifeless contrasts.  While quite appealing for good recordings played through meticulate systems, poor digital recordings tend to fare much worse. 

The oil-impregnated version does some interesting things.  It shaves off just a hair of gruff hardness to turn poor recordings just a bit more palatable while pushing out an ounce more girth and roundness.  Recordings and passages that have that "ringing" or resonant quality are turned a little gentler and calmer.  Normally, such changes would mean a warmer yet lower-resolution and slower sound signature; however, since the dry polyester capacitor has so much resolution and speed to burn, the oil version still sounds plenty detailed and fast despite a little enriching of the sonic tapestry.  There's no clear "better" or "worse" here, as I can imagine different people preferring one or the other depending on one's tastes and how the system is voiced.  At any rate, polyester film and polyester-in-oil capacitors represent a fascinating genre of capacitors, one that has the potential to offer superior sound quality to garden-variety polypropylene capacitors out there at comparable prices. 



Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 4 Dec 2009, 03:09 am
Thanks once again, John.  There is also a size difference between the two types for a given value that may force one to choose the dry version as they tend to be somewhat smaller from what I gather.

Going to try a couple of the dry films in my headphone amp very soon.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 4 Dec 2009, 03:23 am
There is also a size difference between the two types for a given value that may force one to choose the dry version as they tend to be somewhat smaller from what I gather.

-- Jim

Actually, the dry polyester and polyester oil caps are the exact same size for the same value..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: nicoch46 on 4 Dec 2009, 04:33 pm
Thanks a lot Sir. Jon !
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 4 Dec 2009, 04:56 pm
Hi Jon
Do you have any experience with the Relcap Capacitors specificaly the The Audiocap PCU and the Relcap tft
I want to use this combination in a push pull amp what are your thoughts

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: guest46813 on 4 Dec 2009, 05:41 pm
I use the Relcap Teflon as coupling capacitors in my EL84 PP. I also use the Audiocap Theta in a tube pre and another tube amp, both as coupling caps. I went with the Relcap TFTF because the sonic performance is real close to the V-cap TFTF, it breaks in a lot faster and is also cheaper (in smaller values). The Theta is a warmer cap, not to the extent of the K75 or Jupiter. It sounds even better when bypassed with the TFTF.

I also used the jantzen Z Superior in a tube pre, quite neutral, big sounding, but warm it is not. Of the Clarity, I only like the MR. I do not perceive the Clairty as warm either.

As a footnote, much before the divestiture of Mabell, at BTL, we had our own line of caps, and used dry polyester film caps in the analog phone network when things were designed to last 40 years. If you ever pick up an old Western Electric analog telset, you will notice it sounds a lot clearer and musical  with better tones than any modern digital telset

Jon L. did a super and thorough analysis of caps.

quoc
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 4 Dec 2009, 06:24 pm
If you're looking for warm, the ESA is pretty neutral/warm compared to the MR.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 4 Dec 2009, 06:55 pm
Thanks Guys
Have you tried the Relcap Polyproylene copper and foil
It's in between the Theta and Teflon and gives you a signature of both caps mentioned while being a bit sweeter

ESA are nice but a bit less transparent then what I was looking for they do alot of things right

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 5 Dec 2009, 08:02 am
What's about the TRT StealthCaps? Has anyone tested them?

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Nick77 on 5 Dec 2009, 12:12 pm
I need a warm bypass cap and would like to give the k75's a try will 250v work ok for speaks?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AudioCap on 7 Dec 2009, 09:10 am
Thanks again Jon for the review (even if it feels a little like an obituary!)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Eadron on 11 Dec 2009, 08:20 pm


Ordered some Stealth caps for my pre, they are unknown caps, so I am taking a chance, will let you know.

Mike

Mike,

what about those Stealth Caps? How do they work in your preamp? I heard there's also a hotrod version of the Stealth..anyone heard of?

jouni
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 16 Dec 2009, 08:35 pm
I just finished doing a comparison of DC blocking caps (0.68mfd) in my monoblocks.  Last night, two audiophile friends joined me for the final comparison between my two favorites.  One is quite well known and highly regarded; the other is completely off the radar of everyone who has contributed here so far.

After months of comparisons of many different caps, I settled on Mundorf SIO and Fostex copper/tin foil and film as the best two candidates.  Both caps are very nice, and it took me a lot of concentrated listening to develop a preference.  Both of my friends, in a blind test, agreed with my selection, although I had not informed them of it before the test. 

We all chose the Fostex as superior to the Mundorf SIO.  The Fostex provided more inner detail, without the tilted up, slightly etched response of the Mundorf.  The Fostex produced so much air and spaciousness that it made the Mundorf sound somewhat flat in comparison.  The Fostex gave a more realistic representation of the tonality of instruments and voices, with somewhat better bass control.  If you believe the Mundorf SIO is a great cap, you're right, but you should also try the Fostex. 

The Fostex is not an inexpensive cap, although it is somewhat less costly than the Mundorf.  As far as I know, it is available only from Madisound.

Peace,
Tom E
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: paba on 16 Dec 2009, 09:42 pm
I just wanted to share some very good results I just got:

I recently bypassed a 5uf Jupiter (old production) with a VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor (100 nF) and the result is night and day, really, no need for careful AB test. This pair is in series with my tweeters (and an L-pad) so just before my ears and hence makes the most difference.

based on this success, I'm now trying the same MKP1837 bypass on some 100uf Solen Fast Caps that I have further down the chain, inside my amps actually. The solens are cathode bypass function in my input/driver tubes. The change should be more subtle because further away from the ears but I'm hoping it will help.


cheers
paba



Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: markC on 17 Dec 2009, 02:46 am
I didn't care for the 1837 on the final tweeter cap. Sounded edgey in my system. I do, however really like the Sonicap platinum .1 in that position. Horses for courses, of course, just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 17 Dec 2009, 05:57 am
The Fostex gave a more realistic representation of the tonality of instruments and voices, with somewhat better bass control.  If you believe the Mundorf SIO is a great cap, you're right, but you should also try the Fostex. 


Interesting capacitor.  However, it's rated at 240 VDC, which is too low for many tube amp applications, including the ones I use  :(
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: douglesc on 17 Dec 2009, 10:12 am

After months of comparisons of many different caps, I settled on Mundorf SIO and Fostex copper/tin foil and film as the best two candidates.  Both caps are very nice, and it took me a lot of concentrated listening to develop a preference.  Both of my friends, in a blind test, agreed with my selection, although I had not informed them of it before the test.
=====================================================================

Would you be so kind to list some of the caps you compared. Maybe what what you thought of them.
Did you listen to the silver gold and oil, was it way better than the silver oil or not??? How about the silver gold. Thanks in advance.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JayB on 18 Dec 2009, 05:08 pm
Great reviews. As I haven't read every response in this 24 page thread, I apologize if this has been mentioned previously. I replaced the Solen parafeed and coupling caps in my Bottlehead paramounts with Mundorf silver/gold/oils. I was going to use silver/oil but I ultimately went for the higher temperature rating of the Gold/Silver/Oil's, which is 85C vs. 70C for the silver/oil. The Solens are 85C. I have no evidence that the S/O would not have worked but decided to be safe. Also, Bottlehead seems to recommend an 85C cap per their forum, though I think their evidence is that the Solens have never failed. I thought I would mention this as a caps temp rating will affect its longevity.         
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SamL on 29 Jan 2010, 03:56 am
Russian K72 Teflon Capacitor "Nude"

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8489/img0423m.jpg)

I always had a soft spot for the Russian K72 teflon capacitor, which was the original Russian teflon wonder that DIY'ers picked up on, and the rest is history.  It had tons of detail and dynamics, but it had a tendency for a bit of hardness and etch, which some suspected was partly due to its thick steel case and metal posts.

I was able to test the "nude" K72 that has been de-cased and de-posted (courtesy of Josh K), and I must say this version loses most of the hardness and etch of the stock unit.  After a long break-in, the sound is almost creamy-smooth in the low-treble and upper-midrange while the detail and dynamics remain. 

What I have always liked about the Russian teflons, including K72 and FT3, was that while they don't quite have the air and refinement of the VCaps or Auricap Teflon, they actually had a bolder and more robust presentation that projected more forward with arguably a more involving mien.  Now with the nude mod adding smoothness, K72 must certainly be *the* giant-killer, right?

Well, almost.  The nude mod ended up sounding a little too creamy and smooth up top.  There was terrific detailing right up to the midrange, but the triangles, cymbals, and violin's upper harmonics did not ring clear in sparkling fashion.  Wait!  I have heard a very similar sound previously... It was the Audiocap Theta, and adding a small FT-1 teflon bypass capacitor was the sweet answer then, so I tried the same with the nude K72. 

2200 pF FT-1 Teflon Capacitor

Holy Batman, now things were really cooking.  Since FT-1 is basically the same internally as K72, adding the bypass did not result in any appreciable incoherence or discontinuity, just adding that last breath of air, upper harmonics, and sparkle.  The resulting sound was at once robust, dense, detailed, and airy, while being as smooth as baby's behind.  I really liked the results, and if you have some K72's, I highly encourage you to crack open the case and add the FT-1 teflon bypass.

You should be able to find copper or aluminum sheets in handcraft or hobby (model car, train) shop at various thickness. The thinner the sheet, the easier to roll and the cheaper it will be. Cut to length and you should be able to roll the cap into one of them. Tape them up and they should look quite nice and well protected.

Have fun  :D

Edit: Oh yes! They should also have pvc sheets too.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: FJK on 18 Feb 2010, 10:51 pm
Jon could you compare the Ampohm polyester in oil along with the Ampohm copper in oil and k75-10.

Thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SET Man on 27 Mar 2010, 02:45 am
Hey!

   First, great thread :thumb: I've been checking this on and off.

   I recently picked up a pair of K73-16 22uf 63V to be used as output cap in my DAC replacing ELNA CE-BP caps.

   So, far they sound very good by themselves after about 50hr or so on them. And definitely better than the ELNAs their replaced.

   But for the light of me I can't figure out which way to connect them. Unlike my favorite cap, the Jensen PIO Copper of which are clearly marked with a line on one side. I skimmed through all the pages here and can't seem to find anything about this for these Russian caps. Dose anyone know? :scratch:

    As for caps. All signal caps in my tubed pre and SET amps are Jensen PIO copper version. Except those in my phono stage. I have MIT PPMX(?) of which are lower end of MTX's line in there. I did tried to replace a pair with Jesen PIO copper but somehow I like those cheaper MIT better in there. Maybe it was too much fo a good thing. :lol:

    Anyway, the 22uf K73-16 sound surprisingly good despited the large  value. Since I have the .22uf Jensen left over from phono upgrade. I tried them as by pass cap on those K73-16 and the combo sound even better. So far I like them together.... but more listening will be needed to say for sure.

    Well,  if nobody have info on the K73 direction than I guess I will have to de-solder them and switch direction and see if I can hear any difference.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: xecluded on 4 Apr 2010, 04:38 am
The K73-16 are non-polar aren't they.  I don't think it matter which way you connect them.  I've been using them double up in power filtering supply position and they work out just great.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 15 May 2010, 07:13 am
Opinions about StealthCaps?

Thanks,
Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 15 May 2010, 06:38 pm
Opinions about StealthCaps?

Thanks,
Peter

No idea yet, but I do have some of the new VH Audio CuTF's  :eyebrows:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: chrismercurio on 19 May 2010, 11:46 pm
JonL,

Thank you for your hard work in your postings on the various capacitors. I look forward to your findings on the CuTf.

Thanks!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 23 May 2010, 04:42 am
Buddy,

There is a way to electrically identify the inner foil lead from the outer foil lead, of an unmarked capacitor.

Richard Marsh, of Marsh Sound Design can tell you exactly how to do this.

He told me a couple of years ago how, but I never used the method. I listen both ways on a test rig, and mark the caps for best sound.

Basically, what you do for the test is wrap a foil around the body of the cap, and test from foil to each lead. That's all I know, so please contact him, if you want.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: shep on 1 Jun 2010, 10:45 am
I have enjoyed this thread very much and may have something to contribute!
http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/audioupgrades_cap.shtml. While not strickly speaking "new caps", they are new to me and are presently residing in my CDP. I can't say anything useful about how they sound because they are running in and no doubt will take quite some time to settle down. Also my player has undergone a major up-grade, of which the caps are just a part, so it would not be very smart to stick my neck out on this subject! (and risk having it cut off at the knees). So this is just info. and nothing more.
Hmm I see this link doesn't work. I don't know why. Sorry but it's there, somewhere, somehow :duh:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 1 Jun 2010, 11:05 am
I have enjoyed this thread very much and may have something to contribute!
http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/audioupgrades_cap.shtml. While not strickly speaking "new caps", they are new to me and are presently residing in my CDP. I can't say anything useful about how they sound because they are running in and no doubt will take quite some time to settle down. Also my player has undergone a major up-grade, of which the caps are just a part, so it would not be very smart to stick my neck out on this subject! (and risk having it cut off at the knees). So this is just info. and nothing more.
Hmm I see this link doesn't work. I don't know why. Sorry but it's there, somewhere, somehow :duh:

Here (http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/capacitors.shtml) is the proper link.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: shep on 1 Jun 2010, 11:31 am
thanks! My head wasn't quite attached there. I will venture an observation, based on personal experience with several caps placed in several locations (here he goes into deep waters...) If I try and seperate out the audible changes going on at present in this player and assuming these particular caps are having a major influence, so far the treble is more extended and the mids very muscular, if a bit too angular for my liking, the bass so far is a bit recessed and "glued" in place instead of coming forth. If this makes any sense...they have only about 25 hours so I expect major changes to come.
While on the subject, I replaced Clarity caps in my X'overs with Jenzen superior S, some time ago and the change was very positive. Non-believers abstain!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 1 Jun 2010, 11:51 am
Unfortunately, J. Gordon Holt is right, in general. Also unfortunately, he didn't have the best sounding system, nor did he offer a practical scientific method for determining the sonic contribution of electrical parts and accessories.

The difference between good sounding equipment and excellent equipment, is constant refining and experimentation. This also applies to the complete audio system.

Another area where the industry went incredulous is the promotion of "perfect sound forever" from CDs.

Now look where we are!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speakerquest on 23 Jul 2010, 10:27 pm
I am a fan of Multicap RT-X as couplingcaps in tube circuits. Mundorf SiO is another contender for my favourite cap, with a smoother treble than the RT-X but still high resolving and open with a nice soundstage.

I know that many people regard the regular Mundorf Supreme as a reference quality cap (less pronounced treble than the Silver Gold), and  Intertechnik Audyn-cap Plus is said to be very similar.

Does anyone have experience of the more costly Intertechnik/Audyn caps ?
There are: Audyn-cap Reference, Audyn-cap True Silver, Audyn-cap Gold and Silver, and Audyn-cap True copper, all of which are "non-inductively wound" like the Audyn-cap plus and Mundorf Supreme.

I am thinking about trying Audyn True copper for my next project.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 24 Jul 2010, 04:38 am
 :thumb:

I suggest you try two or three types of the Audyn caps. My early testing of the copper exoticap by Rel dismissed my consideration for copper foil coupling caps. The Jensen copper foil in oil were better but not by much. Both were too bright and not full enough.

However, and ironically, I ended up using an oil cap bypassed with a copper foil teflon cap made by Modwright. V-cap now makes a copper foil version of their teflon caps, but I have not tried them.

The other two copper foil caps did not work like the Modwright. They both added to the sound rather than clear up the sound like the Modwright bypass.

Prior to this, I did not care for bypassing, because none of the ten or so bypass caps worked to my satisfaction.

So the bottom line is experiment, read other's tests, and keep experimenting until you are satisfied.

I'm interested to hear how the Audyns work out !
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Construct on 24 Jul 2010, 04:56 am
If anyone doubts caps... they should start at the bottom.  Stock electrolytic 10% caps in a crossover and move up to just about anything. Dayton metallized film, sonicap  etc..  They all invariably sound a LOT better than electrolytics in a crossover. Not to mention, better caps do prevent image drift.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: plw on 24 Jul 2010, 06:39 am
Hi,  want to share my cap experience with the forum...

A couple of months ago I picked up some old Paradigm 7's from the mid 80's (Seas H253 tweeter, 8" woofer).  Because they were over 20 years old, I replaced the original cap in the crossovers (6dB/Oct) with a direct replacement generic electrolytic of the same value 4.7mfd (cost about .50).  I noticed little change in the sound other than maybe a little warmer, but wasn't sure if it was my imagination. 

Just last night removed the first replacement caps, and  installed some Clarity Cap PX 4.7mfd I got at Madisound. I really didn't expect much because I had already replaced the caps once with little change, but what a difference!!! ... the speakers sounded bright, cold, and sibilance's were terrible!  Very detailed, but not at all pleasant to listen to. 

After some reading on the subject, today I ran the speakers at mid volume for about 6 hours. Afterwards they sure seemed to have warmed up while still keeping the clarity where it is needed!  Still not perfect, but better.  Will let them run overnight and see how things are tomorrow. 

I know there is much discussion on this subject, but I am convinced that changing caps makes quite a difference, and break-in time is real.  Maybe I live in ignorant bliss, but this morning prior to break-in I was planning on putting a series resistor in the circuit to tame the tweeters with the new caps, but this evening after running the speakers all day, I am pleased with the sound, and no resistors are in the plans! 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 24 Jul 2010, 06:22 pm
That seems to be the case. Replace the electrolytics with polypropylene, then there are flavors with different types.

One wire that I have found which tames and is somewhat fuller sounding is the Purist silver alloy. I mainly use it on tweeters. And its not horribly expensive like some speaker cables.

Copper binding posts instead of brass also reduces glare. These are small improvements that take labor time, but they add up.

Good choice with going with Madisound. They have a good selection and experience. Another is GR Research.

Be careful not to go too crazy with the project. You could have those speakers tore apart for weeks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: EthanH on 24 Jul 2010, 08:15 pm
Hi,  want to share my cap experience with the forum...

A couple of months ago I picked up some old Paradigm 7's from the mid 80's (Seas H253 tweeter, 8" woofer).  Because they were over 20 years old, I replaced the original cap in the crossovers (6dB/Oct) with a direct replacement generic electrolytic of the same value 4.7mfd (cost about .50).  I noticed little change in the sound other than maybe a little warmer, but wasn't sure if it was my imagination. 

Just last night removed the first replacement caps, and  installed some Clarity Cap PX 4.7mfd I got at Madisound. I really didn't expect much because I had already replaced the caps once with little change, but what a difference!!! ... the speakers sounded bright, cold, and sibilance's were terrible!  Very detailed, but not at all pleasant to listen to. 

After some reading on the subject, today I ran the speakers at mid volume for about 6 hours. Afterwards they sure seemed to have warmed up while still keeping the clarity where it is needed!  Still not perfect, but better.  Will let them run overnight and see how things are tomorrow. 

I know there is much discussion on this subject, but I am convinced that changing caps makes quite a difference, and break-in time is real.  Maybe I live in ignorant bliss, but this morning prior to break-in I was planning on putting a series resistor in the circuit to tame the tweeters with the new caps, but this evening after running the speakers all day, I am pleased with the sound, and no resistors are in the plans!

I'm no expert, but I believe that in some speakers that use electrolytics the resistance of the caps is factored into the crossover's overall design.  By replacing electrolytics with poly caps you may be altering the crossover rather than merely upgrading the quality of components, hence the bright and edgy result from the Clarity Caps. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 25 Jul 2010, 03:14 am
That's a possibility. In that case you would have to measure the speaker and compensate with a higher value resistor, usually before the capacitor.

Best to check with a speaker crossover designer or the manufacturer.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: plw on 26 Jul 2010, 06:12 am
Thank you much for the advice all.  I am having a little fun experimenting with these older Paradigm speakers.  I was just surprised the Clarity Caps would make such a difference.  It seems to me they have calmed down quit a bit after playing them for 20 hrs, but I haven't listened to them too closely yet. 

I e-mailed Paradigm about these speakers since they are quite old, but the company had little information.  Interestingly, the serial numbers are hand-written on the back of the cabinet.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 26 Jul 2010, 09:20 am
Passive crossovers kinda suck, its better to go active (ie, you should make the same choices I made, in order to validate my choice).
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 26 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
Active crossovers are better, but at a hell of an expense.

You need at a minimum, another stereo amp, a set of speaker cables, another set of interconnects, an electronic crossover, one more powercord, room to accommodate, and work inside the speaker to bybass the passive crossover.

You can see here $3K if you buy used equipment and inexpensive cables. If a person has a special amp that they like and more expensive cables, the cost could easily approach $6K.

Then you could go the route of WLM and buy a really good CD player-preamp-crossover which is only $10k, but is very highly rated. Then you would still need one more stereo amp and some cables.

This is a far cry from upgrading some parts on a pair of existing crossovers.

From my experience, the greatest gain for speakers is to send one of the crossovers to a company that makes crossovers, and in the mean time, add a brace to the speaker cabinet and some damping material to the inside walls. Then when the company returns your crossover, with two completely upgraded ones, install the new ones. The cost would be about 3 to $500.00.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Chris Adams on 5 Sep 2010, 09:05 pm
Jon, I have an FT-1 .01 and an FT-3 .1 burning in on the Thetas in the B1. A bit brash and strident at the moment. I'll let them burn a while and report back. Thanks for the tip on these! :D
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 7 Sep 2010, 01:54 pm
I have to say that I've been using the Russian FT-3 .1uF Teflon's as bypasses in my speaker's tweeter section. They increased the level of transparency to truly window-clear levels on my speakers. But about 3-4 months ago I thought I heard some hardness when playing a classical piece. The strings were just steely.

So I recently had a chance to pick up some used .1uF V-Cap teflon's (someone I know upgraded to the new copper/teflons) and put them in the crossover to replace the Russians. It took a while to settle in, but I can noticeably hear that the top end has smoothed out while still retaining that spectacular soundstaging and transparency. So as good as those Russians are for the price, they can be a tad brittle compared to the V-Cap's.

Enjoy,
Bob
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 7 Sep 2010, 05:25 pm
I have to say that I've been using the Russian .1uF Teflon's as bypasses

One should always play with teflon with caution.  Which Russian teflon did you use? K72, FT1,2, 3, or?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 7 Sep 2010, 05:32 pm
The lifesaver pack sized FT-3's
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 7 Sep 2010, 07:02 pm
Bob M,

What does the "someone you know" think of the upgrade to the V-cap teflon/copper?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 7 Sep 2010, 07:19 pm
Without a direct A-B comparison it would be truly hard to tell for sure, but they are saying it has the same sense of transparency but could ("could") be just a tad warmer sounding. Kind of like copper vs silver wire, but not as drastic a difference as all that. Subtle.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DNArtist on 24 Sep 2010, 01:46 am
I have a quick question for a capacitor experts, and this seems like a good place to start
BTW, if this Q really deserves it's own separate thread, or should be brought up elsewhere, just let me know and I'll do as advised.
I own two Kinergetics Chiro C-500 5-channel solid state amps (140Wx5 into 8ohms, 280x5 into 4 ohms), identical (as far as I can tell) except for the caps.

Amp A has two huge gray Philips caps, each the size of a 20oz. coke bottle (I'll try to add pics)
with stamps reading
Philips 3186 GH 213 V 100 A L A1
21,000uF 10+100%
100vDC 125Surge
85C Max Ambient
362-9110-56699

The other amp has two smaller blue caps, about the size of a yogurt container, stamped
Philips 3186 GH 213 U 075 B M A1
20,000uF -10+75%
75vDC 95 surge
85C Max Ambient
362-9527-56699
*note, these blue caps have a slight indentation "collar" around them near the end where the bolts are. I can't tell if these were made by the ties that firmly held them to floor of the amp, or if its part of their design.

My Question is... is there a significant performance difference to be expected from these different pairs of caps? If so, in what contexts? And "how much" diff, enough to hold onto one, rather than the other, to "futureproof" against possible aquisition of demanding speakers?

 I have a strong background in lab science (not electrical, though) so I know better than to make shallow assumptions like "bigger is better". I understand there can be factors like insulation type, build material, age etc.

Haven't had time yet to do an A/B subjective listening test, BTW... just looking to get some good objective info in the meantime.

Amp A

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36113)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36114)

AMP B

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36115)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36116)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36117)



Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Bill Baker on 24 Sep 2010, 02:03 am
This is obviously a personal opinion but I have never been a fan of Philips caps. Granted these values are much larger than what I usually play with so I cannot say what the alternatives would be.
 Another option would be to experiment with some good film bypass caps on the. Given the value, I would try to fit in the largest value possible. Be sure the voltage on the bypass caps is at least that of the caps shown. You can go higher but don't go lower in voltage. Looks like you should be able to fit a couple 20uF Solen caps in there. Then a 2uF along with it. They are rated for 400V and available from Madisound. Don't laugh, the Solen caps make for a very nice power supply and won't cost you an arm and a leg. Just don't use them in the signal path :nono:

My guess is you would notice a nice difference (for the better) in the amp.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kingnubian on 24 Sep 2010, 06:01 pm
Excellent thread!

This thread has my head spinning......................in a good way.

I've just received my Naked Vishay resistors as part of my first build, the Pass B1 & have been constantly reading about different caps. I am looking for a affordable yet great performing cap. Given the virtues of the B1, low cost & excellent performance, I really can't commit to spending many time the cost of the B1's other components combined in caps....................not at this time at least.

Lots of the different "Boutique" caps discussed do come with a high price, relatively speaking. Some like the Sonicaps have a reasonable price for what they offer performance wise.

I have been looking at these three contenders for inclusion in my Pass B1 (2x 10uf & 2x 1uf) and would like some feedback, Comparisons & Observations.

Sonicap Gen 1
Obbligato (Gold Premium or Copper)
Vintage Audio Lab PIO (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Metalized-Polypropylene-Capacitor-10uf-100V-PIO-OIL-/270627396289?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f02a65ac1#ht_2694wt_911)

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 25 Sep 2010, 03:02 pm
Excellent thread!

This thread has my head spinning......................in a good way.

I've just received my Naked Vishay resistors as part of my first build, the Pass B1 & have been constantly reading about different caps...

Sonicap Gen 1
Obbligato (Gold Premium or Copper)
Vintage Audio Lab PIO (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Metalized-Polypropylene-Capacitor-10uf-100V-PIO-OIL-/270627396289?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f02a65ac1#ht_2694wt_911)

Personally, in the spirit of B-1 (simple, straight-wire sonics), I would not go with PIO's in general unless at the end, you feel like you need to "add" a little of that oil texturing and warmth.  AmpOhm oils caps would be nice but that 10uF is going to be HUGE in size. 

I had Jantzen Superior Z caps in my Pass B-1 and replaced with Penta Labs teflons (1uF), and while the Penta is very nice, the Jantzen is actually a GREAT polyprop cap and reasonably-priced.  I like Dynamicaps very much also. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 25 Sep 2010, 03:04 pm
Without a direct A-B comparison it would be truly hard to tell for sure, but they are saying it has the same sense of transparency but could ("could") be just a tad warmer sounding. Kind of like copper vs silver wire, but not as drastic a difference as all that. Subtle.

Hmm, interesting.  I have done the direct A-B, and the VCap teflon/copper and teflon/tin sound quite different to me, not subtle at all  :green:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Sep 2010, 04:31 pm
Personally, in the spirit of B-1 (simple, straight-wire sonics), I would not go with PIO's in general unless at the end, you feel like you need to "add" a little of that oil texturing and warmth.  AmpOhm oils caps would be nice but that 10uF is going to be HUGE in size. 

I had Jantzen Superior Z caps in my Pass B-1 and replaced with Penta Labs teflons (1uF), and while the Penta is very nice, the Jantzen is actually a GREAT polyprop cap and reasonably-priced.  I like Dynamicaps very much also.

Agree w/ Jantzen superior. They have a lot of snap.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Sep 2010, 04:38 pm
Excellent thread!

This thread has my head spinning......................in a good way.

I've just received my Naked Vishay resistors as part of my first build, the Pass B1 & have been constantly reading about different caps. I am looking for a affordable yet great performing cap. Given the virtues of the B1, low cost & excellent performance, I really can't commit to spending many time the cost of the B1's other components combined in caps....................not at this time at least.

Lots of the different "Boutique" caps discussed do come with a high price, relatively speaking. Some like the Sonicaps have a reasonable price for what they offer performance wise.

I have been looking at these three contenders for inclusion in my Pass B1 (2x 10uf & 2x 1uf) and would like some feedback, Comparisons & Observations.

Sonicap Gen 1
Obbligato (Gold Premium or Copper)
Vintage Audio Lab PIO (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Metalized-Polypropylene-Capacitor-10uf-100V-PIO-OIL-/270627396289?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f02a65ac1#ht_2694wt_911)

One thing to consider is that you may not want all the B1 caps to be the same type. It can be too much of a good thing. As Jon mentioned, the Jantzen superior are terrific - neutral with a lot of snap in the top end. My personal favorites are the Russian K73-16, which I find to have equal if not better performance at a much cheaper cost.

I'm confused by the Valab. Is it oil impregnated MKP? The actual body of the page doesn't mention anything about oil at all...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kingnubian on 25 Sep 2010, 07:03 pm
Personally, in the spirit of B-1 (simple, straight-wire sonics), I would not go with PIO's in general unless at the end, you feel like you need to "add" a little of that oil texturing and warmth.  AmpOhm oils caps would be nice but that 10uF is going to be HUGE in size. 

I had Jantzen Superior Z caps in my Pass B-1 and replaced with Penta Labs teflons (1uF), and while the Penta is very nice, the Jantzen is actually a GREAT polyprop cap and reasonably-priced.  I like Dynamicaps very much also.

Thanks for the great info!

The Obbligato Premium are Film (Dry Aluminum) & not "In Oil" as their other line & are thought of very highly at respected cap review's such as http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html rating even higher than the Sonicap Gen 1's I was looking at previously. They are also sold in matched pairs, within 1% as indicated by the seller.

Btw, I'm looking for 2x 1uf & 2x 10uf caps for the B1 as listed in it's BoM.

I have been reading tons about the various Russian Caps which can be had for remarkably low prices but can't seem to find them in the ratings that I'm after, see above, such as the K73-16 mentioned. Please advise of availability unless these are what you are talking about.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-K73-16-PETP-Capacitor-22uF-5-63V-Lot-48-/250699036049#ht_882wt_911

Mixing & matching also has my interest. Could I for instance mix the Obbligato Premium (10uf) with the Jantzen Superior Z 1uf (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-476) based on the B1's BoM.?I'm trying to get a good balance between clean accurate analytic & "Analogue smooth & deep" open clarity.


I'm just trying to get a feel for what's out there in the price range I'm looking at.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Sep 2010, 08:57 pm
Thanks for the great info!

The Obbligato Premium are Film (Dry Aluminum) & not "In Oil" as their other line & are thought of very highly at respected cap review's such as http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html rating even higher than the Sonicap Gen 1's I was looking at previously. They are also sold in matched pairs, within 1% as indicated by the seller.

Btw, I'm looking for 2x 1uf & 2x 10uf caps for the B1 as listed in it's BoM.

I have been reading tons about the various Russian Caps which can be had for remarkably low prices but can't seem to find them in the ratings that I'm after, see above, such as the K73-16 mentioned. Please advise of availability unless these are what you are talking about.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-K73-16-PETP-Capacitor-22uF-5-63V-Lot-48-/250699036049#ht_882wt_911

Mixing & matching also has my interest. Could I for instance mix the Obbligato Premium (10uf) with the Jantzen Superior Z 1uf (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=027-476) based on the B1's BoM.?I'm trying to get a good balance between clean accurate analytic & "Analogue smooth & deep" open clarity.


I'm just trying to get a feel for what's out there in the price range I'm looking at.

The 63v K73 will be fine for the B1. Not sure what your price range is, but Clarity Cap ESAs are another good option, but it seems like the Obbligatos may be your safest bet.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kingnubian on 25 Sep 2010, 10:17 pm
The 63v K73 will be fine for the B1. Not sure what your price range is, but Clarity Cap ESAs are another good option, but it seems like the Obbligatos may be your safest bet.

What are the possibly issues with going off spec, with respect to the B1 build or any other for example, with caps? For example the B1 BoM calls for 2x 1uf & 2x10 uf. How far off this can I go without affecting audio quality if it will at all?

Btw, I found these. Wonder how they will "Mix" with Jantzen Superior Z's or Obbligato Premium's (1uf)?
http://cgi.ebay.com/10uF-63V-PETP-Capacitors-K73-16-Lot-10-/160471063880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255cd21d48#ht_949wt_911
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Sep 2010, 10:51 pm
What are the possibly issues with going off spec, with respect to the B1 build or any other for example, with caps? For example the B1 BoM calls for 2x 1uf & 2x10 uf. How far off this can I go without affecting audio quality if it will at all?

Btw, I found these. Wonder how they will "Mix" with Jantzen Superior Z's or Obbligato Premium's (1uf)?
http://cgi.ebay.com/10uF-63V-PETP-Capacitors-K73-16-Lot-10-/160471063880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255cd21d48#ht_949wt_911

Changing the caps in the B1 will affect Low pass filter I believe. Best to stick to the recommended values.

I love those PETP caps, but there's no way to know what any cap will do for you until you try it I'm afraid.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 26 Sep 2010, 01:15 am
Changing the caps in the B1 will affect Low pass filter I believe. Best to stick to the recommended values.

I love those PETP caps, but there's no way to know what any cap will do for you until you try it I'm afraid.

Good for you wushuliu!

It's not an I believe, it is absolutely true! Changing the output filter capacitor in particular will change the low pass filter. So will the output resistor and so will the impedance of the amp you are driving. In other words, NP assumed that the lowest impedance amplifier the B1 would have to drive is about 10K ohms. If it is higher then you can use a smaller value for the output capacitor. The equation is 1/2(pi)(f)(r)(c), where pi = 3.14159..., f= the lowest frequency you want, i.e. 1Hz, 5Hz, 10Hz, etc..., r = the TOTAL resistance which incorporates not only the output resistance value, but the input impedance of the power amp, and the resistances that are in parallel (like the 221K resistor that goes to ground), and c is the value that you are looking for, i.e. the value of the capacitor in question. So if you don't understand how 1/2pi(f)(r)(c) can change the frequency response curve of the B1, best not to do it without some hand holding  :thumb:. Sorry for the off topic, really belongs in the lab!

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kingnubian on 26 Sep 2010, 03:50 am
Changing the caps in the B1 will affect Low pass filter I believe. Best to stick to the recommended values.

I love those PETP caps, but there's no way to know what any cap will do for you until you try it I'm afraid.

I just ordered the 1uf & 10uf variants of those K73-16 PETP caps. After reading a ton of opinions from different sources and looking at the ridiculously low price I had to make a move.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 26 Sep 2010, 05:39 am
Good for you wushuliu!

It's not an I believe, it is absolutely true! Changing the output filter capacitor in particular will change the low pass filter. So will the output resistor and so will the impedance of the amp you are driving. In other words, NP assumed that the lowest impedance amplifier the B1 would have to drive is about 10K ohms. If it is higher then you can use a smaller value for the output capacitor. The equation is 1/2(pi)(f)(r)(c), where pi = 3.14159..., f= the lowest frequency you want, i.e. 1Hz, 5Hz, 10Hz, etc..., r = the TOTAL resistance which incorporates not only the output resistance value, but the input impedance of the power amp, and the resistances that are in parallel (like the 221K resistor that goes to ground), and c is the value that you are looking for, i.e. the value of the capacitor in question. So if you don't understand how 1/2pi(f)(r)(c) can change the frequency response curve of the B1, best not to do it without some hand holding  :thumb:. Sorry for the off topic, really belongs in the lab!

Anand.

Yeah. What he said!  :lol:

I still want to know what the deal is w/ the Valab caps though, if they're really PIO or not.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kingnubian on 26 Sep 2010, 06:14 am
Yeah. What he said!  :lol:

I still want to know what the deal is w/ the Valab caps though, if they're really PIO or not.

I fired off an Email to the Valab folks & will report back when I get an answer.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 26 Sep 2010, 06:27 am
I fired off an Email to the Valab folks & will report back when I get an answer.

Needn't bother. Found this on pinkfish:

"I emailed that ebay seller about the 'PIO' caps and the reply was,
"Dear Sir:
No, it is not PIO. So sorry for the misleading. PIO was used for keyword searching. This cap is MKP capacitor."

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kingnubian on 26 Sep 2010, 06:40 am
Needn't bother. Found this on pinkfish:

"I emailed that ebay seller about the 'PIO' caps and the reply was,
"Dear Sir:
No, it is not PIO. So sorry for the misleading. PIO was used for keyword searching. This cap is MKP capacitor."


HHHmmm, well they seem ripe for testing is someone is up to it.

On another note, do you use both the 1uf & 10uf PETP caps in your build or is this actually recommended? I've got both ordered.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 26 Sep 2010, 06:44 am
HHHmmm, well they seem ripe for testing is someone is up to it.

On another note, do you use both the 1uf & 10uf PETP caps in your build or is this actually recommended? I've got both ordered.

Only used the 10uf because thats what I had.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 13 Nov 2010, 10:33 am
V-Cap CuTF (Copper Foil Teflon Film) Capacitor

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2362/vcapcutf.jpg) (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/vcapcutf.jpg/)

This is the new “reference” capacitor from VH Audio, utilizing cryo’d oxygen-Free high conductivity copper foil in Teflon film, finished with 18 AWG solid core high purity OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) copper with VH Audio’s AirLok insulation.  The description spells “expensive,” and indeed the new CuTF capacitor is about 50% more expensive than the V-Cap TFTF (tin foil Teflon).
 
Obviously, people would like to know if the CuTF is worth the surcharge over TFTF, and the short answer would be a resounding “it depends.”

First of all, these new V Caps sound nothing like any other capacitors I have tested so far, and I spent a lot of time comparing them to some of the best of the crop, including Aura-T teflons and V-Cap TFTF. 

There are two things that strike me the most about the new caps. 

Their sound has significantly more robust body compared to Aura-T or VCap TFT, giving you a more of an anchor around the mid-midrange, as opposed to more of upper-midrange/treble anchoring of Aura-T or TFT.  I know there are some people who feel  Teflon caps are "lean" in low-midrange/upper-bass area, which I don't really agree with.  However, with the new caps, one tends to realize how much more music resides in this area.  However, this does not mean this area is exaggerated or bloated like overcompensated  bass-reflex 2-way bookshelf speakers because linearity and transparency are excellent throughout all the ranges. 

The other thing that makes an impression is just how DETAILED these capacitors are.  Once again, combined with robust density, detail resolution is unparalleled, especially in the mid-midrange region.  Other capacitors that I love, including Mundorf silver-in-oil and AmpOhm PIO, just cannot compete with the amount of detail in these areas.  The good oils types tend to "massage" out recordings' rough edges slightly for beauty, but bad recordings have nowhere to hide with the new caps.  This also means top-notch recordings with top-notch equipment WILL show you things you've never heard before, so be careful with where you use these new caps.  With power comes responsibility, as they say.

There's no need to mention other usual parameters such as bass, dynamics, imaging, soundstaging, etc because these aspects are in line with what's best out there.  It's just that the special combination of extraordinary  body and resolution just does not exist anywhere else.  Another quality to note  is that unlike certain teflons and "audiophile" caps, there does not seem to be any *extra* sheen or highlighting of the uppermost frequencies to flatter dull recording/systems.  If your system has been tuned to sound just right around these more "flashy" caps, you may need to re-tune your system with the new VCaps in place, but the effort would be worth it.
 
So should you rush out and throw out your previously favorite caps, perhaps even V-Cap TFTF, to use the CuTF?  Well, if you don’t mind the expenditure and are curious, by all means try them.  However, all the caps discussed before, including TFTF, are still just as good and rewarding today as they were before, and the availability of CuTF does not diminish those other great caps. As with all things in audio, just realize that everything depends on overall system/room synergy and personal tastes. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 13 Nov 2010, 10:41 am
I must also mention the addition of Stax Omega II electrostats to my stable that has further widened my evaluative capacity.

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9613/oii1.jpg) (http://img222.imageshack.us/i/oii1.jpg/)


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 23 Nov 2010, 09:50 pm
AmpOhm Aluminum Foil Paper In Wax Capacitor

(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3701/ampohmwax2.jpg) (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/ampohmwax2.jpg/)

Jupiter beewax capacitors have impressed me positively in the past, leading the way for the comeback of beewax capacitors in modern times.  However, Jupiters were notoriously susceptible to heat, and if they were installed near hot resistors or tubes, they were prone to failures.  As I have written before, they have recently come out with a “High Temperature” (HT) version, and they are designed to be much more resistant to heat. 

I was somewhat surprised to see that AmpOhm also made paper-in-wax capacitors, and at $12.75, they were much cheaper than Jupiters, which are around $35.  I was hoping to find another great budget capacitor, so in they went after the usual burn-in.

The overall sound of AmpOhm paper-in-wax was even and pleasant, with no part of the spectrum jumping out and biting off your ears.  This is a great capacitor for tweaking an overly-bright or analytical system to more forgiving side, allowing one to enjoy a larger portion of poorly-recorded albums.  The flipside was that great recordings could not reach the heights that tweaked Teflon caps can achieve; there just seemed to be a finite limit on how much resolution and transparency was available.  It’s not really fair to compare any cap’s resolution to teflons, but that’s how it goes around here.

Just to make sure my ears had not gone sour, I popped in my old Jupiter beewax caps, and yes, I still liked them very much.  At almost triple the AmpOhm’s price, Jupiters had a more forward, detailed stance with more “obvious” high treble twinkle and midbass energy.  Still not in teflon territory in resolution, but this didn’t detract me from enjoying the music.  For headphone fans, Jupiters really reminded me of Grado headphones, especially the new PS1000, in presentation while AmpOhm reminded me somewhat of Sennheiser HD6xx series powered by a polite headamp.  Still, if you want a forgiving paper-in-wax cap that costs much less than Jupiter, AmpOhm is the only game in town, and it’s built like a tank just like the paper-in-oil caps, not feeling like a soft candlestick like Jupiter caps, the older version anyway.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 21 Dec 2010, 07:17 pm
 John, I'm using V-cap teflons as coulping caps for my 211 amp. Curious to know if you or anyone has tried using the new Cu V-caps to bypass the Tin in teflon ?

thanks
charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 22 Dec 2010, 07:16 am
John, I'm using V-cap teflons as coulping caps for my 211 amp. Curious to know if you or anyone has tried using the new Cu V-caps to bypass the Tin in teflon ?

thanks
charles

I would actually use the Cu V-Cap as the main cap and bypass with smaller V-Cap tins.  Despite the Cu V-Cap's formidable strengths in the midrange and all the other stuff I mentioned, I still believe the tin version has more apparent "air" that audiofools crave..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 28 Dec 2010, 04:16 pm
I would actually use the Cu V-Cap as the main cap and bypass with smaller V-Cap tins.  Despite the Cu V-Cap's formidable strengths in the midrange and all the other stuff I mentioned, I still believe the tin version has more apparent "air" that audiofools crave..

  Thank you for the response and recco. Yes they do have air but perhaps a tad dry or lean. OK then cu it tis.


charles


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: marknoir on 29 Dec 2010, 12:21 am
Hello Jon

Excellent comparisons. But, unexpected result for me.

Based on your review, I bought a pair of Mundorf Silver-in-oil caps. My Luminescence calls for 5.6 uF. After a long break in, during which they sounded somewhat closed-in, they did open up, but too much, if I may say so. Compared to all other caps I've tried, their sound character is very different. Yes, they provide louder output, liquidity, smoothness, and gobs of detail, but at the unexpected cost of an upward-shifted frequency response! In my application they lack bass, lower mids, some of the mid-mids and upper mids, and have very pronounced treble. I'd say, they changed the tonal balance of my preamp to practically unlistenable to me, because I sort of liked what it sounded like before. I put in regular Mundorf Supremes that I had lying around - everything went back to normal. I did some digging around on the net and found some very similar results from different people. Do you think they are:

1) VERY system dependent?
2) Need more burning in?
3) Over-rated?

Thanks again for all your work and Happy New Year!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 29 Dec 2010, 01:32 am
Mark,

Your experience with Mundorf SIO is similar to mine.  I used them as DC blocking caps at the inputof my monoblocks and, even after several frustrating weeks (200+ hours?) of break in where the sound changed almost daily, found them to be very detailed with excellent high frequency response, but at the expense of bass and the flesh of lower mids, with a slight flattening of soundstage.  These are excellent caps for a tweeter crossover, but they do not accurately pass a full range signal.

My favorites of the many caps I've tried are Fostex and Sonicap Gen I, with Mundorf Zn (very slight high frequency emphasis) close behind.  These are all smooth and detailed, with amazing portrayal of depth and space.  Tonal qualities of instruments are very realistic through the Sonicap and Fostex.  Bass is accurate and controlled, and the midrange is nicely full and rounded.

Peace,
Tom E

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: marknoir on 29 Dec 2010, 02:08 am
Thank you for your reply! I need higher voltage than Sonicaps, so I guess I'm limited to my Mundorf Supremes and other options. But now I'm out $170 for the Silver Oils...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 29 Dec 2010, 04:17 pm
What's about PPS-Caps? Does anyone have tried them? I like them in solid state applications better then most MKP-Caps.

Peter

(PPS=Polyphenylsulfide)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 29 Dec 2010, 05:13 pm
I liked the sonicap gen 1 and the Gen 2's as good bang for the buck caps, but I recently tried the Obbligato Gold caps and they are MUCH better sounding, across the board.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 29 Dec 2010, 06:46 pm
I liked the sonicap gen 1 and the Gen 2's as good bang for the buck caps, but I recently tried the Obbligato Gold caps and they are MUCH better sounding, across the board.

WOW!  That was in the GR V-2 right?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 29 Dec 2010, 08:14 pm
Mundorf Silver-in-oil caps. My Luminescence calls for 5.6 uF. After a long break in, during which they sounded somewhat closed-in, they did open up, but too much
1) VERY system dependent?


System dependence is the bane of capacitor rolling, since you can also find many people who love their Mundorf SIO's.  After a looong break in, if something is off, I do try reasonable adjustments with tube rolling, cable change, footer/damping change, but if that doesn't work, it's time to move on.  Luckily, you can probably sell your Mundorfs at a great price on eBay, Agon, forums like these.

The other possible issue is that Mundorf SIO's I tested were in 0.1 to 0.22 uF range, and 5.6 uF certainly has tons more conductor and dielectric, which I wonder if amplifies the Mundorf effect...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 29 Dec 2010, 08:52 pm
Jon,

Or perhaps you can't completely hear the "tilt" effect of SIO through headphones, which don't usually have such great bass response.  Those Stax electro's are beautiful (I owned the equivalent model 30 years ago and learned a lot about how things should sound) and are a great diagnostic tool, but they just don't pump out powerful bass like a full range speaker system.  Sometimes you need to get out from under those cans, no matter how good they are.

Tyson, are the Obbligato Gold much better than their Copper model?  I tried the Copper in this same application and heard a very objectionable coloration of the sound--a sort of false spaciousness, almost like reverb!  Their frequency response was accurate and they produced a warm, rounded sound which was very impressive at first.  Eventually, I realized that everything I listened to, from symphonic to small ensemble jazz had the same sort of huge space around it, that everything sounded bigger than life, with a fake echo effect.

Yes, the Sonicaps Gen I qualify as best in the "budget" class.  There are certainly better caps, but only for much more money.

Peace,
Tom E
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: carusoracer on 29 Dec 2010, 09:44 pm
Great thread as always to read. :thumb:

Has anyone had similar "Mundorf" issues with the Non Oil, Silver/Gold Caps?

I'm interested in putting them into a pair of Dodd 120 Monoblocs. I believe these are a revised Ist gen as they have the chrome front faceplate and the two transformers on each chassis.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 30 Dec 2010, 02:07 pm
I put a pair of Mundorf Silvers into Dodd monoblocks for Tubeluvr. The sound was very nice as they were breaking in, but as others have reported, once broken in the sound wasn't so good anymore. It seems that in many cases the Mundorf's initial impression, while nice, doesn't hold up over time. I would look elsewhere.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 30 Dec 2010, 06:21 pm
Jon,

Or perhaps you can't completely hear the "tilt" effect of SIO through headphones, which don't usually have such great bass response.  Those Stax electro's are beautiful (I owned the equivalent model 30 years ago and learned a lot about how things should sound) and are a great diagnostic tool, but they just don't pump out powerful bass like a full range speaker system.  Sometimes you need to get out from under those cans, no matter how good they are.

Tyson, are the Obbligato Gold much better than their Copper model?  I tried the Copper in this same application and heard a very objectionable coloration of the sound--a sort of false spaciousness, almost like reverb!  Their frequency response was accurate and they produced a warm, rounded sound which was very impressive at first.  Eventually, I realized that everything I listened to, from symphonic to small ensemble jazz had the same sort of huge space around it, that everything sounded bigger than life, with a fake echo effect.

Yes, the Sonicaps Gen I qualify as best in the "budget" class.  There are certainly better caps, but only for much more money.

Peace,
Tom E

I never heard the copper caps, but the gold's are pretty awesome.  I used them in my speaker crossovers, and in my tube amp for the output caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 30 Dec 2010, 07:30 pm
I tried the Obbligato coppers and thought they had a somewhat veiled sound where Sonicap V1's were just more transparent and liquid, especially when bypassed with a small v2. Can't speak for the gold's though.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 30 Dec 2010, 08:56 pm
headphones, which don't usually have such great bass response.  Those Stax electro's are beautiful

I use both speakers and electrostat headphones.  I would also add that the Stax Omega II actually has one of the best bass response of all headphones I've tried, including dynamic headphones, but obviously headphones won't interact with room and pressurize your body like full-range speakers, which I also use. 

Even within my own system, different amps I have are optimized by different caps, so in the end, one really has no choice but to try some.  Once you try a cap or two and understand where your system/cap stands in the continuous spectrum of sound, one can make some educated guesses as to what would work better in what direction. 

One last thing to consider trying with Mundorf SIO's is to use an adhesive tape with good damping properties to securely couple it to chassis, and then use a moderate-sized strip of damping material on top.  If you have some laying around, a small ring of ERS paper around the cap leads can make a difference. These measures will tend to shift the tonal balance downward while making the overall presentation more solid.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 30 Dec 2010, 09:43 pm
Jon,

You certainly do a thorough evaluation, and I retract my former admonition to listen through speakers. Yes, the Stax really are excellent headphones in every respect, even bass.

Caps are one more variable that can be used for tuning a piece of equipment or a whole system.  The SIO will certainly do that, but I prefer a more neutral tonal balance.

Firmly securing and even cradling any film cap is good advice.  I believe they are all subject to microphonics.  I hold mine with a piece of foam wrapped around the cap, then a cable tie through holes in the chassis (but not pulled too tightly!).  In small signal applications, I insulate the leads with teflon tubing or tape.

Bob M: your experience is exactly opposite what one would expect, as the SIO stubbornly refuses to break in and settle down for many hours, and sounds best after that.

Tyson and Bob, can you try to provide more descriptive terminology than "pretty awesome" and "not so good any more"?  That just isn't telling us much.

Peace,
Tom E
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: carusoracer on 31 Dec 2010, 04:02 pm
I put a pair of Mundorf Silvers into Dodd monoblocks for Tubeluvr. The sound was very nice as they were breaking in, but as others have reported, once broken in the sound wasn't so good anymore. It seems that in many cases the Mundorf's initial impression, while nice, doesn't hold up over time. I would look elsewhere.

BobM, Where the Caps that you installed coupling or bypass and where they Silver/Oil?
Any other recommendations?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 31 Dec 2010, 08:20 pm
My system was a bit too warm sounding, and the Obb Golds gave me much greater detail and transparency.  I also bypassed them all with Sonicap Platinum (teflon) caps, or with Auri-T (teflon) caps.  Now, even when we watch a show like "Lie to Me", where the main character has a strong British accent, we almost never ask "What did he say?" 

I should mention that I have a tubed NOS DAC, a tubed preamp (custom), and tubed amps (KT88, custom).  So, the extra detail and transparency fits in very nicely with my system.

It also made the lower midrange more clear, and tightened up the bass.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: douglesc on 1 Jan 2011, 03:43 am
Can anyone make further comments on the Jantzen caps, especially the z-silver vs the superior or the mundorfs or any other cap vs. the Jantzen for that matter. In so many cases it almost seems like we are using caps for a flavor rather than a straight wire. Now if a cap is emphasizing something, that is not good, neutral is good. Which caps do you think do that the best??????  I bring up Jantzen because I believe
They are worthy and then for the money..........What would I hear say vs that new vcap and why?
So Many caps and so many opinions, I would just like more sanity to this capacitor discussion which I believe Jon does help the most of anyone I have listened to vs other web sites............Also the last couple of pages of this thread are pretty good. I guess I am trying to drum up discussion on the z-silvers.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Jan 2011, 11:54 pm
Can anyone make further comments on the Jantzen caps, especially the z-silver vs the superior

I haven't tried the Silver-Z, but the only place where I saw Superior-Z and Silver-Z compared was here, where the author said Z-silver was sometimes "too detailed."

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

And yes, Superior-Z still remains one of my favorites.  Interested parties may also want to check out the new Clarity Cap MR, which came out with smaller uF values.  These caps, along with Dynamicap E remain great recommendations for polyprop caps that sound great without breaking the bank.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: douglesc on 2 Jan 2011, 05:14 am
Could you tell me what size the new vcap you tested is??  Also if I sent you a z-silver of the same size would you be willing to test it IN COMPARISON. I have read Tony's review and although I do agree with some or even alot of what he says I do not agree with all of it. How could a cap manufacture detail, in other words how can it be too detailed unless you want your capacitor to mask and flavor the information it should be letting through, if it is edgy or harsh and or strident I could see it but I don't think that is the case with the z-silver cap.............I want a cap to get out of the way and not flavor the music or change it and I don't think Tony is looking at it the same way..............I think you testing the z-silver cap would be interesting.

Yes while it is true Tony does speakers, I do not see why it would not apply across the board as to
what you would want out of a capacitor.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 2 Jan 2011, 05:19 am
Tony's review is for capacitors in loudspeaker crossovers, it doesn't directly apply to coupling caps. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 14 Feb 2011, 11:14 pm
ClarityCap MR Polypropylene Capacitor

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7052/claritycapmr1.jpg) (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/claritycapmr1.jpg/)

Claritycap line of capacitors has a large following and has a reputation for great sound at bargain prices, with the SA, PX, and ESA lines selling in $3-8 range at the popular 0.22 uF range, for example.  My previous impression of ClarityCap SA, at a few dollars, was that of a pleasant, rounded sound lacking in ultimate resolution. The MR series costs 10 times as much as the SA yet still comes in at a low price compared to the exotic competition.   

According to the website, the ClairyCap MR “is manufactured in such a way to substantially reduce the negative effects of resonance on sonic quality which is inherent in a wound component. This results in a sonic characteristic which is difficult to equal. Manufactured from metallised polypropylene film the component is housed in a coloured acrylic tube and encapsulated in an epoxy resin to assist in the overall sonic performance.”

Whatever they did performed some major transformation to the sound, as the MR sounds nothing like SA, sounding far more extended, neutral, dynamic, and yes, resolved.  As far as frequency extension, there is nothing to fault here, as both top and bottom go as high and low as can be desired; however, what’s even more impressive is how all the ranges in between seem coherent, finely-textured, and natural, with nothing sticking out like a sore thumb.  I kept thinking how smooth everything sounds while presenting a high degree of detail resolution across the frequency range, as good as a polypropylene cap gets including the exotic ones from Mundorf, etc.

Another benefit of this smooth precision seems to be outstanding imaging and separation within the soundstage, which is filled with air and “space”.  No smudging and blending together of instruments into blobs, which can happen with less precise caps.  These characteristics enable the MR to sound like the proverbial “no cap” better than most, if not all, polypropylene caps I have tested.  In fact, the MR sounds less colored than quite a few exotics, including some teflons, PIO’s, polystyrene, etc.  There is a downside to this neutrality, however, as the MR may not be the cap to shave off some rough edges from a bright source, plump up the low-midrange of that lean amp, or add extra “wetness” to that dry solid-state system.  But if your system is reasonably neutral and resolute and if you don’t want to “hear the cap” at a reasonable price, then the ClarityCap MR just may be the cap you have been waiting for. 

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: grodri02 on 4 Mar 2011, 04:20 pm
Hi,

Can anyone that has had or has a Jolida 302brc amp recommend a cheap cap? My budge is $15/cap and I need 4 x 0.22uf and 2 x 0.47uf. My jolida still has the green square looking caps.

My choices are:
Audiocap Theta
Sonicap Gen I
Mundorf Zn
Multicap PPFXS

If anyone has tried these in their amps, please post your impressions.

Thanks for your advice.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 11 Mar 2011, 07:54 am
ClarityCap MR Polypropylene Capacitor

Another benefit of this smooth precision seems to be outstanding imaging and separation within the soundstage, which is filled with air and “space”.  No smudging and blending together of instruments into blobs, which can happen with less precise caps.  These characteristics enable the MR to sound like the proverbial “no cap” better than most, if not all, polypropylene caps I have tested.  In fact, the MR sounds less colored than quite a few exotics, including some teflons, PIO’s, polystyrene, etc.  There is a downside to this neutrality, however, as the MR may not be the cap to shave off some rough edges from a bright source, plump up the low-midrange of that lean amp, or add extra “wetness” to that dry solid-state system.  But if your system is reasonably neutral and resolute and if you don’t want to “hear the cap” at a reasonable price, then the ClarityCap MR just may be the cap you have been waiting for.

Cool, thanks for reviewing them. I know Face has been an advocate for a while and I am a fan of their cheaper caps tho I don't use them as much anymore. I currently have Mundorf SIO in my SimpleSe but plan on slipping the MRs in at some point to compare. They were first choice, but there's so much good feedback on the SIOs I decided to play safe.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 13 Mar 2011, 10:16 pm
After using many high priced caps in my electronics I think the Clarity Cap MR are truly excellent
Thanks to Dave Garretson I got to try their lower voltage values and was very impressed

These caps imo do so many things right  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: sbrown on 14 Mar 2011, 04:26 am
Almost three years and still going!  This is a great thread.  Interestingly, both the Clarity MR and the TRT Stealth both make claims about reducing resonances in their new designs.  From your comments, they may be on to something.

Jon, at the end of all of this, which cap(s) would you choose for your application?  I know this is system dependent, but is still an interesting question.     
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: colesey on 14 Mar 2011, 07:58 am
I too use Clarity Cap MR for output coupling in my Border Patrol preamp and rate them extremely highly.  They're very transparent, dynamic, grain-free and extended compared to the boutique 'oilers' previously in there.  Vlad of Audio Mirror is also a fan and recommended them for the build of my power amps.  Whilst I'm told the Dueland range are excellent, their pricing and unusual shapes may put them out of contention for many.

Thanks go out to Jon L for sharing his extensive work with us and also to Dave Garretson for his help and advice; his system profile on audiogon (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1140494870) is a worthwhile read for any budding modders!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: grodri02 on 14 Mar 2011, 04:54 pm
Can the ClarityCap MR cap be used for coupling cap purposes on a tube amp?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 14 Mar 2011, 05:04 pm
Shouldn't be a problem as long as the voltage rating is sufficient.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 14 Mar 2011, 07:02 pm
Jon, at the end of all of this, which cap(s) would you choose for your application?  I know this is system dependent, but is still an interesting question.   

That is a great question, with an answer that really won't help other people.  At this point, I swap out caps when I feel like a different type of presentation, especially if I am trying new tubes, cables, etc.  People's mileage WILL vary, and though I use Teflons a lot, some of that is because I simply have them around and is not a requirement for great sound.  I do like small teflons in bypasses.   

In various positions currently in various amps and preamps:

VH Audio Copper teflons bypassed with FT-1 Russian Teflons

AudioCap Theta's bypassed with FT-1 Teflons

Siemens MKV Polypropylene and metalized aluminum in oil caps bypassed with VCap tin teflons

Jantzen Superior Z Polyprop bypassed with FT-3 Teflons

Penta Labs Teflon cap bypassed with Aura-T Teflon caps

VCap tin teflon bypassed with FT-1 teflon






Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bigdirty on 14 Mar 2011, 07:43 pm
Hey guys,

 looking for a little insight on implementing bypass caps. Using the pass labs B1 as an example, I have the 1uf and 10uf mounted off of the board due to their size. They are connected with wire to the board. Can the bypass cap be mounted on the board, while keeping the main caps off board, without problem?

thanks in advance

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 15 Mar 2011, 06:23 pm
Hey guys,

 looking for a little insight on implementing bypass caps. Using the pass labs B1 as an example, I have the 1uf and 10uf mounted off of the board due to their size. They are connected with wire to the board. Can the bypass cap be mounted on the board, while keeping the main caps off board, without problem?

thanks in advance

I actually have a DIY Pass B1 myself, and yes the positioning of large caps is a problem.  It's fine to have the bypass cap mounted on the board, but do try your best to keep the leads from main caps as short as possible anyway..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bigdirty on 15 Mar 2011, 06:53 pm
I actually have a DIY Pass B1 myself, and yes the positioning of large caps is a problem.  It's fine to have the bypass cap mounted on the board, but do try your best to keep the leads from main caps as short as possible anyway..

 thanks Jon.

Im using ampohm PIO/alu for the 1uf and mundorf supreme for the 10uf, HUGE. Its still early, and with a modified tube preamp as reference, but Im missing some of that "midrange magic".

This will be my first venture into bypass caps. In the parts bin Ive got some k72p-6 0.01uf, k75-10 0.22uf, k40y-9 0.68

I was using the k75 as interstage coupling caps in my tube preamp. Im leaning towards trying those as bypass to begin with.

any recommendations?

 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 15 Mar 2011, 07:04 pm
thanks Jon.

Im using ampohm PIO/alu for the 1uf and mundorf supreme for the 10uf, HUGE. Its still early, and with a modified tube preamp as reference, but Im missing some of that "midrange magic".

This will be my first venture into bypass caps. In the parts bin Ive got some k72p-6 0.01uf, k75-10 0.22uf, k40y-9 0.68

I was using the k75 as interstage coupling caps in my tube preamp. Im leaning towards trying those as bypass to begin with.

any recommendations?

Just my opinion, but I don't know if midrange magic is a strength of the B1 - I would say more soundstage, imaging. That said, Vit Q caps I used opened up the mids w/ the B1.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bigdirty on 15 Mar 2011, 07:33 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't know if midrange magic is a strength of the B1 - I would say more soundstage, imaging. That said, Vit Q caps I used opened up the mids w/ the B1.

yes, the imaging and clarity of the b1, matched with a classDaudio sds-224, is spectacular. But, I find myself reaching for the volume looking for what I had become used to with my previous preamp.

It's still early, barely 50 hours on the B1. I will give it some time before I make any serious observations.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 15 Mar 2011, 08:38 pm
thanks Jon.

Im using ampohm PIO/alu for the 1uf and mundorf supreme for the 10uf, HUGE. Its still early, and with a modified tube preamp as reference, but Im missing some of that "midrange magic".

This will be my first venture into bypass caps. In the parts bin Ive got some k72p-6 0.01uf, k75-10 0.22uf, k40y-9 0.68


B-1 does not sound like a tube preamp, which is its point really, but if a bit of the midrange "magic" is required, I might bypass your Mundorf supreme with that 1uF AmpOhm and throw on the 0.22 K75 in the 1uF position.  If bass rolls too early with your source with the 0.22, may throw on the 0.68 K40y in parallel to 0.22 for total of 0.9 uF.  That's not really bypassing anymore, but both being oilers, the combined sound may not be too off.  Just thinking a bit out of the box. 

Or, just try various combos of bypass without moving the AmpOhm..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jerrin on 22 Mar 2011, 10:32 pm
I have a pair of N3-S that have soniccap gen 1's and are bypassed by Platinum.  I'm looking to add some "liquidity and magic" to them.

I was thinking of maybe using some Mundorf silver/gold/oil bypassed with the Platinums for the tweeter (planar) and maybe the same for the woofer.

Any suggestions?  Duelands are too expensive and the upper mundorfs are as high as I can go. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Matty_J on 29 Mar 2011, 11:10 pm
Jon,

Most awesome and informative.  I've long wondered what characteristics the different caps employ.

Matt
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 30 Mar 2011, 04:54 am
Jerrin,
Replace the Gen 1's with Obbligato Gold's and keep the bypass Platinums in place - magic!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 30 Mar 2011, 09:51 am
For Bypassing Elektrica Caps are great, even in comparison to V-Cap Teflons. Look here:
www.askjanfirst.de/dindex.htm

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bkeane1259 on 1 Apr 2011, 02:14 am
Jon,  Great thread...thanks so much for your insight.  I want to burn in crossover caps with a dummy load (never tried before) and I was wondering if it makes a difference if you wire the caps in parallel or series and then to the dummy load.  All my caps are the same value....slightly different tolerances.  Was thinking of doing 3 at a time with a 100watt - 8ohm resistor dummy load - 60 watt Sonance amp.  Also, if you don't mind sharing.  What sort of program material do you pipe into them during the burn-in process?  Frequency sweeps, pink noise, music...all of the above??  And at what volume setting on the amp?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jerrin on 1 Apr 2011, 08:45 pm
Tyson,

Thanks for your opinion.  I appreciate it.


Jon,

Which of the following would you prefer overall as a base cap in a crossover:  Obbligato Gold caps, Mundorf supremes, or Sonicap Gen 1s?   If you don't mind, could you also explain why?

This can also be answered by anyone else with experience/preference.  Thanks!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Apr 2011, 09:27 pm
Jon,  Great thread...thanks so much for your insight.  I want to burn in crossover caps with a dummy load (never tried before) and I was wondering if it makes a difference if you wire the caps in parallel or series and then to the dummy load.  All my caps are the same value....slightly different tolerances.  Was thinking of doing 3 at a time with a 100watt - 8ohm resistor dummy load - 60 watt Sonance amp.  Also, if you don't mind sharing.  What sort of program material do you pipe into them during the burn-in process?  Frequency sweeps, pink noise, music...all of the above??  And at what volume setting on the amp?

I burned them in in series.  When in parallel, remember the Total capacitance=C1+C2+C3, etc, so if your caps have high uF to begin with, one may end up with way too much capacitance, which may not be good for the amp. 

I just played my music on repeat.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 1 Apr 2011, 09:28 pm
Tyson,

Thanks for your opinion.  I appreciate it.


Jon,

Which of the following would you prefer overall as a base cap in a crossover:  Obbligato Gold caps, Mundorf supremes, or Sonicap Gen 1s?   If you don't mind, could you also explain why?

This can also be answered by anyone else with experience/preference.  Thanks!

I actually like FT-series Russian Teflon caps in bypass.  If your original caps are very large, you can bypass them with things like Obbligato, Sonicap, then bypass those again with Teflons.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bkeane1259 on 13 Apr 2011, 11:37 pm
I burned them in in series.  When in parallel, remember the Total capacitance=C1+C2+C3, etc, so if your caps have high uF to begin with, one may end up with way too much capacitance, which may not be good for the amp. 

I just played my music on repeat.

I've been cooking mine since Monday (in parallel since there are only 3) and I plan to get around 125 hours on them before actually using them.  Just for yuks, I'm only cooking half, and then I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison to see if I can hear an obvious difference between the cooked and new caps.  I'm using a bunch of music, frequency sweeps, white and pink noise and nature sounds all looped for the burn-in program.  So far so good  :D


(http://i521.photobucket.com/albums/w339/bkeane1259/SPEAKER%20STUFF/IMG_0512b.jpg)






Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 16 Apr 2011, 08:11 am
After using many high priced caps in my electronics I think the Clarity Cap MR are truly excellent
Thanks to Dave Garretson I got to try their lower voltage values and was very impressed

These caps imo do so many things right  :thumb:

Just swapped out the Mundorf SIO for Claritycap MRs on my SimpleSE. Veeeery Nice. The SIO is no slouch but the MRs are really clean and quiet. Has the Clarity 'house' sound, but perfected. See-through.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Johnny2Bad on 16 Apr 2011, 08:49 am
Buddy,

There is a way to electrically identify the inner foil lead from the outer foil lead, of an unmarked capacitor.

Richard Marsh, of Marsh Sound Design can tell you exactly how to do this.

He told me a couple of years ago how, but I never used the method. I listen both ways on a test rig, and mark the caps for best sound.

Basically, what you do for the test is wrap a foil around the body of the cap, and test from foil to each lead. That's all I know, so please contact him, if you want.

Not the "Marsh Method" but this page has a decent explanation of inner/outer foil best practices and two methods to test (one via listening, one requiring a 'scope). http://www.soundgaragetales.com/amp-building/outside-foil-capacitor (http://www.soundgaragetales.com/amp-building/outside-foil-capacitor)
And more here:
http://www.aikenamps.com/OutsideFoil.htm (http://www.aikenamps.com/OutsideFoil.htm)

It's also often said that on a non-polarized capacitor, if you observe it with the writing in the "normal" position (ie you can read it left to right) then the outer foil will be on the right or "end" of the capacitor. However, there is no established "standard" so no hard-and-fast rule, so I would rely on it only if you had no other way to test or no reference to go by.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 16 Apr 2011, 03:27 pm
  Initially installed two pairs of V-caps tin in oil in the Cyber 211 amp. A .1 at the coulping position of the input tube[ 6DJ8, Mullard]] and a .47 the coulpng cap of the driver [5687, Tungsol] to the 211 GE4TC tube.
  Over time the soul was MIA. I had made some other changes in the system with Alan Maher CBFs, different cables and so on.
   Just could not get a handle on what was causing the body and soul to disappear. A club member who was changing caps had a pair of .47 Jensen PIO with Alum. case. So for free in they went. Granted the body was back but lacking in detail, speed, tranient attack and focus in the bass. With only 20 hours on the Jensens so far the jury is still out.
  Question. If I go back to the all V-cap scheme which cap would be recommended to bypass ? The input or output position ? Same applies for a cap[ change. Input or output for the most bang. A V-cap copper for example first or last. Or just leave the V-caps and bypass one but which one ?


charles
   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 19 Apr 2011, 04:24 pm
 There is a new kid on the block. Deuland is offering PIO caps for real world prices. The "Alexander" is the model.


charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WiesiekL on 27 May 2011, 07:35 am
Hi there,
Have just discovered the topic. Would like you to see the really big Russian 4.7 uF K72 teflon caps someone mentioned here. Use four of them them in my TL loudspeakers for the tweeters where the 4.7 uF capacity is needed. Enjoy the pics:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=47118)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=47119)

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: darkmoebius on 1 Jun 2011, 12:01 am
Would like you to see the really big Russian 4.7 uF K72 teflon caps someone mentioned here.

Yowsa! Those are bigger than the oil filter in my car.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: marknoir on 9 Jun 2011, 09:37 pm
Has anyone tried Solen Teflon caps (green)? They seem to be not too expensive. I wonder how they compare to Rel and Vcaps... I use russian teflons, and, though I like their resolution, I find them to be a bit gritty in upper mids/treble, and not very smooth. I may be mistaken, but they seem to have some resonances here and there, especially in upper bass. I use values of 0.047uf and 0.1uf.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SteveR on 12 Jun 2011, 08:51 pm
I am using .033 uf Solen teflon and tin foil as a bypass over Russian K75-10 output caps on a 1986 vintage CD player. As Jon L says the K75-10 has a scrumptious midrange, the teflon bypass extends the highs and sharpens the image. Most enjoyable.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: peter61 on 27 Jun 2011, 10:56 am
WiesiekL: I have never seen such big Russian Teflon capacitors before!! Normally the biggest Russian Teflon’s are 0.22uF. Those are very interesting for tube power supply's also. I suspect working voltage is at least 600V. Does anyone know where to buy them?
Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WiesiekL on 29 Jun 2011, 08:41 pm
WiesiekL: I have never seen such big Russian Teflon capacitors before!! Normally the biggest Russian Teflon’s are 0.22uF. Those are very interesting for tube power supply's also. I suspect working voltage is at least 600V. Does anyone know where to buy them?
Peter
The voltage is lower, about 125VDC (at 10kHZ). I use them in the tweeter sections of my TL crossovers. I bought them 5 years ago from a Ebay seller in Lithuania, "kwtubes" or something.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SteveR on 30 Jun 2011, 02:03 am
The largest K75-10 that I have seen on ebay is 10 uf with a 250V rating. It is a Paper and Mylar in Oil. No teflon here as far as I can see!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SteveR on 30 Jun 2011, 02:16 am
My comparisons between the Solen Teflon .033 and V-caps .01 are: The Solen are very, very smooth and do not quite reach the transparency of the V-caps, however the Solen did become listenable much quicker. The caps were burned in as bypasses on Power Supplies for close to the same amount of time and then switched to outputs on my preamp.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: goldlizsts on 5 Jul 2011, 02:02 pm
Great thread. 

Has anybody used Rifa?  Opinion/comparison?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: marknoir on 5 Jul 2011, 11:38 pm
My comparisons between the Solen Teflon .033 and V-caps .01 are: The Solen are very, very smooth and do not quite reach the transparency of the V-caps, however the Solen did become listenable much quicker. The caps were burned in as bypasses on Power Supplies for close to the same amount of time and then switched to outputs on my preamp.

Thank you for your comparison

I have also tried 0.47uF russian teflons on the output of my Curcio tube DAC, that's the spec value, and I used them full range. Resolution is good, but tonal balance leaves a lot to be desired. I prefer regular films in there... And they were quite expensive, too! And HUGE - like Redbull cans...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: marknoir on 5 Jul 2011, 11:40 pm
WiesiekL: I have never seen such big Russian Teflon capacitors before!! Normally the biggest Russian Teflon’s are 0.22uF. Those are very interesting for tube power supply's also. I suspect working voltage is at least 600V. Does anyone know where to buy them?
Peter

Hello Peter

I bought and use 0.47uF on Ebay. Pretty expensive for a russian teflon, and HUGE - like cans of Redbull!

M

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Dracule1 on 9 Jul 2011, 06:13 am
Has anyone tried the Dueland Alexander copper PIO cap for coupling? It's more reasonably priced than the other Duelands.  Or are these just rebranded Jensen copper PIO?

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_alexander.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 9 Jul 2011, 03:02 pm
Has anyone tried the Dueland Alexander copper PIO cap for coupling? It's more reasonably priced than the other Duelands.  Or are these just rebranded Jensen copper PIO?

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_alexander.html
On a separate note did you ever get the duelands into your Sason Crossovers how did that fair ?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 9 Jul 2011, 03:14 pm
My guess is that with a 900v working voltage rating, these are not rebranded jensens.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SteveR on 10 Jul 2011, 02:16 am
Thank you for your comparison

I have also tried 0.47uF russian teflons on the output of my Curcio tube DAC, that's the spec value, and I used them full range. Resolution is good, but tonal balance leaves a lot to be desired. I prefer regular films in there... And they were quite expensive, too! And HUGE - like Redbull cans...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: SteveR on 10 Jul 2011, 02:27 am
Thank you for your comparison

I have also tried 0.47uF russian teflons on the output of my Curcio tube DAC, that's the spec value, and I used them full range. Resolution is good, but tonal balance leaves a lot to be desired. I prefer regular films in there... And they were quite expensive, too! And HUGE - like Redbull cans...
I know what you mean by Redbull cans. On a very dated cd player I have experimented with 10uf K75-10 PIO on output caps and have had to mount them outside the chassis. I use a passive 10,000k preamp so I need large value. Although I don't really like bypasses on output caps I have added Solen teflon .1uf piggyback and have achieved a reasonably balanced clear sound. As Jon L says the K75-10 has it own quite unique presentation.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Dracule1 on 12 Jul 2011, 04:28 pm
I found a little more out about the Dueland Alexanders.  They are, as I suspected, made by Jensen for Dueland, but only Dueland can sell these as these are Dueland design with thicker copper foil with beefier construction (hence higher voltage rating) and resonant damping case.

I'm very happy with Duelands in my speakers.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 12 Jul 2011, 06:13 pm
Thanks for doing the legwork on these.  I have to say though, why do audio companies always insist on obscuring or embellishing the truth?  This from the PCX site:

To quote Duelund themselves..."Investments in larger production machinery have made
it possible to do a high volume series of Duelund Capacitors, at much lower cost
than previously possible". The upshot is, that Duelund now offers a range of lower
value, superior quality, pure copper foil / paper in oil caps (at a 900VDC rating),
at prices far below our "industry leading" handmade VSF and CAST series. As always,
the inside of the cap itself contains no plastic whatsoever, and due to increased
paper thickness, and long oil impregnation "soak" time, these caps share the Duelund
"family" characteristic, of addressing resonance damping as a key design parameter.

Specifically I'm talking about the "investment in new production machinery" above.  Did Jensen invest in the machinery, did Duelund?  Seems llike it was Jensen, and if so, why is Duelund makingg it sounds as if they did this?  Sure, it's nit-picking, but what the hell?

Another recent similar thing is a company who makes connectors who claims to use a "copper alloy" for their connectors -- again I assume, attempting to cash in on the people who for their own reasons are looking for real copper connectors, only to find that theey are made of brass -- which is technically, a copper alloy, but not the more typical tellurium or beryllium copper as somebody in audio normally would consider a copper alloy to be.

RRant over. :D

-- Jim

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Dracule1 on 12 Jul 2011, 09:12 pm
BTW, the Dueland CAST and I think VSF are also made by Jensen.  The design and research done by Dueland, I believe.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2011, 02:23 am
I e-mailed Frederik of Duelund, in order to avoid any misunderstandings. Here is what he said:

Quote
Dear Anand,
 
Thank you for writing me.
 
The Alexanders are designed from the ground up by Duelund. As is the case with our caps Jensen does some work and we do some work. Our part is less on the Alexanders than on the VSF and CAST, which makes a lower price point viable. These are not rebranded Jensens, which the 900v rating will testify. It may be a bit confusing for people, but Jensen and Duelund are in the same building working together everyday, so a lot of cross work happens in all areas of business: sales, production and development as befits the available ressources.
 
Best regards,
 
Frederik Carøe
Duelund Coherent Audio

Personally, I don't care who makes it, cause the Duelunds sound extremely nice. I'll look to see what the reviews are like on the Alexanders as more diy'ers use them.

You guys do know that Mundorf is made through the high end arm of the german company F&T capacitors (Heinz Fischer and Alfred Tausche) right?

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 13 Jul 2011, 02:36 am
Anand,

thanks for that -- really.  True, I don't care who makes them but I had no idea of this co-location and loose partnership.  And honestly, it makes no difference to me, just glad to have the larger picture.  And I like Mundorfs too -- whoever makes them :-).

ow did those big ol' ampohm copper foils work for you?

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Dracule1 on 13 Jul 2011, 02:52 am
Hey I'm a fan of Duelands, my speakers are full of them.  I plan on using the Alexanders for output coupling for my amps also.  I didn't mean to give any negative connotation regarding the CAST or VSF.  Alexanders looked too much like stock Jensens to give me pause, but my understanding now is that the Alexanders are entirely different animal than the standard Jensen copper PIO caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2011, 03:49 am
Jrebman,

The AmpOhm copper foil capacitors you sent me are MUCHO appreciated. They are going to be used as a main parafeed capacitor for a differential 6N6P output stage coupled to a Buffalo Mk III (when it comes out). Then that parafeed cap will also be bypassed with a copper foil based Modwright T series truth capacitor.

Dracule1 & Jrebman,

I don't think you two are disparaging Duelund to be honest, you are just curious. However the companies have their own discretionary measures and want to maintain a good market for themselves understandably. Again, as long as the final sonics are the key, we shouldn't care about who stamps it /labels it/constructs it - and that we can agree on. These companies are so small that they have to use larger companies that distribute to a much wider audience. The diy audio and high end audio market is tiny for this boutique stuff.

FWIW, I've planned on using the VH Audio Copper foil cap as my interstage capacitor and the Duelund Alexander as my output capacitor in my personal build of the Transcedent Sounds Beast amplifier.

As you can see, I'm now very partial to capacitors that use a copper foil, and I truly seek them out. They have a different sonic signature, still retaining the frequency extremes, but have an organic glow to them, that highlights the midrange.

Sorry for the audiophile verbal snobbery.

These builds should be fun 8).

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 13 Jul 2011, 04:55 am
No need to apologize for trying to describe what you hear.  Sometimes we need that audiophile jargon.  That's much better than what some posters here provide, which is next to nothing.  One shouldn't simply state that A is better than B, or all others, without at least attempting to describe why.

I, too, have noticed the organic (for lack of a better term) nature and depth that copper foil gives to the sound, while still maintaining detail and accuracy at the extremes.

Do you have any preference regarding dielectric material?  We can choose from paper-in-oil, various poly types of plastic, and teflon.  I've seen claims that each has a characteristic sound.  It appears that you have selected a variety.  I'm speaking here of true film and foil, which generally provides sonics superior to metalized types, regardless of materials used.

Peace,
Tom E
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2011, 12:18 pm
Tom,

The introduction of copper based foils has really changed the landscape for me somewhat, so that became my defacto deciding factor.

But from a musicality standpoint, I would surmise that my rating from best to worst as far as dielectrics would be 1) Paper in Oil, 2) Teflon, and 3) Metallized Polypropylene. However, without a copper foil, the Paper In Oil types lose out bigtime to the Teflons.

Between the Duelund Copper VSF and the Vcap Copper foil teflon, it's a race to the finish, where each will shine in different systems and different tastes.

The crowning king (from my colleagues, not me) is the the Duelund Copper CAST.

I don't think that changes what you think of these caps, because to be honest, they are more in line to what most of the reviews say on the net.
Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jrebman on 13 Jul 2011, 01:39 pm

Anand,

Couldn't agree more on the copper foil thing.  I've been through all kinds of wire and caps with all kinds of metals and alloys and in my room, with my gear, copper is really the only thing that really brings the music to life.  I just got a pair of the v-cap CuTfs for coupling caps, but I've got 4 amps to decide between, though my guess is that they'll end up in either the Carina or the 2a3 monoblocks.

Just FYI, I just got some of the vhaudio occ airlok wire that seems to be making some quiet waves.  I guess I'll see for myself soon enough.

-- Jim
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 13 Jul 2011, 01:43 pm
Anand,
.....

Just FYI, I just got some of the vhaudio occ airlok wire that seems to be making some quiet waves.  I guess I'll see for myself soon enough.

-- Jim

Sorry for the off topic- I use the Vcap OCC airlok wire for my tweeter connection in my GedLee Abbeys and use them exclusively in my external crossovers. High quality, and cheap.

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 16 Jul 2011, 01:38 pm
Grant Fidelity has now entered the market with their Reference Teflon Copper Foil capacitors (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Teflon-Capacitors/)...nice! Values available are 0.1uf, 0.22uf, and 0.47 uf, all at 600V DC.


(https://shop.grantfidelity.com/images/products/1195.jpg)


Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 16 Jul 2011, 04:44 pm
Grant Fidelity has now entered the market with their Reference Teflon Copper Foil capacitors (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Teflon-Capacitors/)...nice! Values available are 0.1uf, 0.22uf, and 0.47 uf, all at 600V DC.


(https://shop.grantfidelity.com/images/products/1195.jpg)


Best,
Anand.

Yeah, I saw that.  For one of the more useful value 0.22uF, for example, the Psvane costs 16% less than VCap CuTF. 

Is this enough in cost-savings for someone to gamble on an untested cap vs. a well-established U.S. brand?  If I were the usual consumer, I would want savings more in 25-30% range to take the gamble personally  :o  Then again, manufacturing a copper foil teflon cap is not going to be cheap, even in China..
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 16 Jul 2011, 04:58 pm
Yeah, I saw that.  For one of the more useful value 0.22uF, for example, the Psvane costs 16% less than VCap CuTF. 

Is this enough in cost-savings for someone to gamble on an untested cap vs. a well-established U.S. brand?  If I were the usual consumer, I would want savings more in 25-30% range to take the gamble personally  :o  Then again, manufacturing a copper foil teflon cap is not going to be cheap, even in China..

It's that copper foil that makes you cringe. Regardless of manufacturer or country, they seem to be expensive. Just one look at the price of the Russian FT-3 Teflon capacitors (http://cgi.ebay.com/2-more-FT-3-Russian-Teflon-Capacitors-0-1uF-600V-/130437697934?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5eb1518e), immediately centers you!

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 16 Jul 2011, 06:08 pm
It's that copper foil that makes you cringe. Regardless of manufacturer or country, they seem to be expensive. Just one look at the price of the Russian FT-3 Teflon capacitors (http://cgi.ebay.com/2-more-FT-3-Russian-Teflon-Capacitors-0-1uF-600V-/130437697934?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e5eb1518e), immediately centers you!

Anand.

To be fair, these Russian teflon caps use aluminum foils and are basically NOS military surplus that got into hands of ebay sellers with the demise of Soviet Union.  Who knows what they would sell for if some astute European "audio" dealer got a hold of all of them?  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: S Clark on 16 Jul 2011, 06:54 pm
Yeah, I saw that.  For one of the more useful value 0.22uF, for example, the Psvane costs 16% less than VCap CuTF. 
  Then again, manufacturing a copper foil teflon cap is not going to be cheap, even in China..
Why not? Copper foil is a commercially available product, and even if the material cost is 20x the cost of aluminum foil, it should still be no more than an extra dollar per cap. Since copper is more malleable than Al, it should be easier to roll with the teflon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: srb on 16 Jul 2011, 07:09 pm
Why not? Copper foil is a commercially available product, and even if the material cost is 20x the cost of aluminum foil, it should still be no more than an extra dollar per cap. Since copper is more malleable than Al, it should be easier to roll with the teflon.

I agree.  I think it's more the difference between manufacturing a low volume specialty niche capacitor versus manufacturing a high volume common capacitor series.  That and taking advantage of the higher profit margin one can usually get away with in lower volume specialty manufacturing.
 
Steve
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 20 Jul 2011, 03:16 am
Has anyone tried Solen Teflon caps (green)? They seem to be not too expensive. I wonder how they compare to Rel and Vcaps... I use russian teflons, and, though I like their resolution, I find them to be a bit gritty in upper mids/treble, and not very smooth. I may be mistaken, but they seem to have some resonances here and there, especially in upper bass. I use values of 0.047uf and 0.1uf.

I tried the blue ones, which are metalized, as a bypass on a good sounding oil filled cap. This was on signal. The blue Solens degraded the sound seriously. The green ones, which I assume are teflon and foil should be much better. This is based on my experience with the Modwright teflon-film caps, which are an overall improvement with certain oil filled capacitors on signal. Be aware that bypassing is not consistently an improvement. Sometimes they are, usually they are not, on signal especially.

Regarding the Alexanders; I compared some BAT coupling capacitors to Jensen. BAT has their capacitors made by Jensen. The BAT caps sound noticibly better to me than the Jensens, of the same values. They were more natural and had better weight and impact. One difference in construction is the BAT version has copper lead wires. The Jensens have silver wire. Other than that, I don't know. So the Duelund Alexanders may be better than either. If they are, they will be top quality, because the BAT caps are one of the best I have heard.

I have the Alexanders on order, so I can verify this.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Henry Shih Tzu on 1 Aug 2011, 01:08 pm
Hi everyone, I’m new on here but not new to the love our obsession (40+ years).

I’ve read all of this thread and I’m at the point of buying a bunch of Multicap RTX to fit into my Woodside monoblocks and mosfet preamp. The Woodsides at the moment have 0.47 Jensen coppers bypassed by 10n FSC.P polystyrenes. The sound has great depth but limited sound stage. Organic but lacks air and the bass, of which there is plenty, seems a bit rounded off.
The preamp, a MF 3A, of which I’ve done quite a few mods to (so please don’t laugh) is very transparent. But I feel the Sonicap Gen 1’s bypassed by RTX 0.01uf’s, of which there are three sets per channel for signal purposes, could be improved on. The sound when used with my ss mono’s is quite neutral in the midrange with good deep bass and plenty of air to the point where at times the soundstage extends outside the speakers.
Just to complete the ensemble the front end is a Micrmega T Drive (with mods) and a MF Tri-Vista tube o/p dac. Speakers are my own creation using scanspeak drivers and tweeters.

The question is would I be better going for the Russian Tefs. I love the sound of the Jensens but crave for more controll in the bass and better treble extension.
Would all those RTX’s be too much of a good thing?

Please help .

Regards,
Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: 50jess on 17 Sep 2011, 07:35 am
In your experience, how long burn-in time does the Mundorf Silver in Oil take for it to stabilize?  Is it the same for the Supremes and Silver Gold in Oils?     
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 17 Sep 2011, 09:53 pm
In your experience, how long burn-in time does the Mundorf Silver in Oil take for it to stabilize?  Is it the same for the Supremes and Silver Gold in Oils?     

I usually run in the capacitors before installing, but I find they don't change much. I use them in line with a tuner for the most hours, because the tuner can be left on easily. Then I use a CD player with music, and a run with the Purist break in disk, and I put the capacitors on a Blue Horizons burn in devise.

Even after all that, they need to be run in after installing in the component. I recently did this ( about two weeks ago), installing four Vitamin Q signal capacitors in a balanced headphone amp.

The sound, at first listen, was real narrow in my head using the headphones, and was bright and clear in the upper range especially. This changed after about six hours, the narrowness was about 80% gone.

To make a long story short, I was very pleased with the sound after about 12 hours of playing time, and got a further improvement in naturalness after another 12 hours of playing time. I am really liking the sound now, and it is a significant improvement over the stock poly capacitors made by Dayton.

So I would say, forget the pre-install burn in, unless you insist on it, and give the capacitors (and solder joints) 24 hours to stabilize. I suspect the solder joints needing break in, because that's the only other thing I changed in the amp ( other than bending the leads to shape).

The Purist CD burn in disk, seemed to help the most during the break in process. I used it four times during the 24 hours of playing time. The rest of the time was playing music disks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 17 Sep 2011, 10:20 pm
In your experience, how long burn-in time does the Mundorf Silver in Oil take for it to stabilize?  Is it the same for the Supremes and Silver Gold in Oils?     

I have those but cannot tell you exact burn in time in the circuit. I would estimate 12 hours. One person who has experience with these, is Bill Baker at Response Audio. You might want to e-mail Response Audio.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 18 Sep 2011, 12:25 am
Of the half-dozen caps I compared as input caps in my monoblock amps, the Mundorf SIO took by far the longest to break-in.  I think it was more than a month of playing 4 hours or more per day until they finally sounded good, and then another couple weeks before they sounded the same every time I listened to the amps.  It was not worth the wait.  Some caps took only a few hours of playing time to sound their best, and they were better than the SIO's.

I suspect that they would break-in much faster with higher level signal, such as in a speaker xover. 

Peace,
Tom E

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 18 Sep 2011, 03:57 am
Based on my own limited experience, and what others are using with happy results, it looks like the Mundorf SIOs are most sucessful in speaker crossovers, followed by power supply bypass use, and AC power conditioners. I've used them in the latter two applications with small but positive results.
For signal, I find them clear sounding, but too bright, and a lack of bass weight.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: 50jess on 18 Sep 2011, 11:31 am
Based on my own limited experience, and what others are using with happy results, it looks like the Mundorf SIOs are most sucessful in speaker crossovers, followed by power supply bypass use, and AC power conditioners. I've used them in the latter two applications with small but positive results.
For signal, I find them clear sounding, but too bright, and a lack of bass weight.
What about Mundorf use for amplifier and CD players?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: 50jess on 18 Sep 2011, 11:34 am
I read this interesting article by humblehomemadehifi and it made mentioned of the VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor as a good bypass caps.  And the Vishay practically costs nothing.  hat is your take on this? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 18 Sep 2011, 06:43 pm
I read this interesting article by humblehomemadehifi and it made mentioned of the VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor as a good bypass caps.  And the Vishay practically costs nothing.  hat is your take on this?

My take on the Vishay MKP-1839 (axial version of 1837) is here, at the bottom.  I mostly tried it on its own as coupling cap, but it should work fine as bypass.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0708/capacitor3.htm
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: tarquineous on 18 Sep 2011, 06:49 pm
I read this interesting article by humblehomemadehifi and it made mentioned of the VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor as a good bypass caps.  And the Vishay practically costs nothing.  hat is your take on this? 


Experimentation is costly, time consuming, and can cause confusion resulting in more cost, time. So, unless you have a plan and money to experiment with, go with something proven, like the MKP-1837s.
Take notice of how they are used, and what capacitors they are used with in humblehomemakehifi.
They usually start with a good sounding, not horribly priced capacitor, from their tests, and then add the MKP-1837.
Using that combination, along with copper binding posts and better hook up wire, will result in a significant improvement over most factory speakers. Be sure to use a copper bearing solder for a bit better sound quality (Mundorf, Riehl, Chimera Labs, Cardas). For binding posts, I like the plated Cardas for best sound so far. The bare copper is a hassle.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: 50jess on 29 Sep 2011, 01:14 am
Burning in 2.2uf Mundorf Supremes and .1uf Mundorrf S/G/Os in the Cayin CDT-17a CD player.  It's about 50 hours and the harshness is quite pronounced that even ordinary listening to music is not bearable. 
Running in a CD at repeat mode to reach 100 hours.   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 1 Oct 2011, 03:46 pm
Who knows a supplier for PPS (Polyphenylsulfide)-Caps with values > 1.0µ, preferable in europe.

Thanks,
Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jazzcan on 1 Oct 2011, 08:20 pm
Thanks Jon and others for the wealth of information here.

I just replaced my coupling capacitors in my Copland power amp with Mundorf silver in oil.   Even without break-in I'm very impressed.

Rich
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 6 Oct 2011, 08:39 pm
Really good info here. Just wondering if ayone has had a problem with the Mundorf S/O & S/G caps? I have an amp under the knife and the preliminary test points to the caps? They are only 6 months old. I'm being told they never fail? Let me know. Thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 6 Oct 2011, 09:54 pm

Really good info here. Just wondering if ayone has had a problem with the Mundorf S/O & S/G caps? I have an amp under the knife and the preliminary test points to the caps? They are only 6 months old. I'm being told they never fail? Let me know. Thanks


I've had 1uF Mundorf SiO caps as the output coupling caps in my phono stage for about 3 years and have had no issues.  And I keep it powered on 24x7, except when I go away for more than a weekend.


Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jazzcan on 7 Oct 2011, 08:48 pm
As I just noted, I just replaced my coupling caps with Mundorf SIO.   What I didn't say was that one matched pair of the new replacement set proved faulty (leaking) right away!

However I picked up another pair and I'm a happy camper with the sound.   Have about 50 hours in to date.

Rich
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Fast996 on 16 Oct 2011, 04:36 pm
I recapped my Ampex 350 preamps with Mundorf Supreme,SO,SGO,Mcaps,& Mundorf electrolytics after 500 hours the balance of sound improved greatly. With 1000 hours the sound finally opened fully. The Mundorf caps take a really long time to settle in.

I thought Blackgates were bad!

I can say that these caps take a long time even at 50-100 hours of usage they were grainy and hard but later as the hours passed OMG did they change. Don't sell these caps short as they improve in detail and smoothness.
The build replaced 28 caps in all with Mundorf being the most used.Then Auricap in CC positions and with Ampohm copper in very select positions.
The preamps are spectacular the best sound i've ever heard from my system or anybody elses.

(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/DSCN2381.jpg)
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/DSCN2384.jpg)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: 50jess on 5 Nov 2011, 02:22 am
Wow.  Such a long wait to burn-in these caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 24 Nov 2011, 04:23 am
Hi, I am a noob concerning this stuff.  I have a question about replacing the Caps in my 35 year old Technic's SU7600 integrated amp.  It has 2 large capacitors that are listed as the following-

10,000uF mass quantity resisting  pressure (40V) electrolytic capacitors. 

What Caps would you recommend using to replace the aging caps and what sonic changes can I expect?

The amp still sounds great after all these years and is in use in a secondary system in our bedroom driving a pair of Monitor Audio S1's.  I am wanting to  give it to my son because he wants a TT and it has a decent phono preamp.  So I want to spruce it up a little.  I don't mind dropping about $100 on the amp.

Much thanks!

Larry
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 24 Nov 2011, 05:22 am
Hi, I am a noob concerning this stuff.  I have a question about replacing the Caps in my 35 year old Technic's SU7600 integrated amp.  It has 2 large capacitors that are listed as the following-

10,000uF mass quantity resisting  pressure (40V) electrolytic capacitors. 

What Caps would you recommend using to replace the aging caps and what sonic changes can I expect?

The amp still sounds great after all these years and is in use in a secondary system in our bedroom driving a pair of Monitor Audio S1's.  I am wanting to  give it to my son because he wants a TT and it has a decent phono preamp.  So I want to spruce it up a little.  I don't mind dropping about $100 on the amp.

Much thanks!

Larry

Those 2 caps are electrolytic capacitors in power supply.  Electrolytics that old do need to be replaced, and you can google 10,000 uF (can be 10,000 or little higher) 40V (can be 40V or higher).  Panasonic, Vishy, etc are fine and pretty cheap.

If you are handy with soldering iron, do it yourself or any competent tech should be able to do it very fast. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Æ on 24 Nov 2011, 05:28 am
Hi, I am a noob concerning this stuff.  I have a question about replacing the Caps in my 35 year old Technic's SU7600 integrated amp.  It has 2 large capacitors that are listed as the following-

10,000uF mass quantity resisting  pressure (40V) electrolytic capacitors. 

What Caps would you recommend using to replace the aging caps and what sonic changes can I expect?

The amp still sounds great after all these years and is in use in a secondary system in our bedroom driving a pair of Monitor Audio S1's.  I am wanting to  give it to my son because he wants a TT and it has a decent phono preamp.  So I want to spruce it up a little.  I don't mind dropping about $100 on the amp.

Much thanks!

Larry

The only problem you'll have finding 10,000uF caps, is finding the correct physical size. Otherwise 10,000uF is quite common. Don't worry about the voltage as long as it is 40V or higher. You might want to bypass the big electrolytics with some smaller film capacitors too.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 24 Nov 2011, 06:03 pm
Thanks for the info..  I will have to take a look inside and see what other caps are there so that I can get recommendations for replacements.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Larry
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AmCan on 21 Dec 2011, 09:23 pm
Just swapped out the Mundorf SIO for Claritycap MRs on my SimpleSE. Veeeery Nice. The SIO is no slouch but the MRs are really clean and quiet. Has the Clarity 'house' sound, but perfected. See-through.

Hi, I was wondering what your opinion of this swap might be now that you have has some time to absorb the difference; which do you prefer.

I need to select some main coupling caps for my HK Citation Solid State 19 Power amp. I have it paired with a Citation 17 pre, which I have Mundorf Supremes with the 1837 bypass as the main coupling cap on the Output Board. I just put in dedicated audio lines and it has drastically changed the sound. Everything is highly detailed, clear and opened but sounding a tad bright now but not grating. What would be the best .1uF coupling caps to put in my power amp to balance with my pre and the M-Cap supremes if I want to tame this brightness a little? I am considering Mundorf SIO or Clarity MR. I was thinking of using an RTE .01 as a bypass as well to dial in the impedance matching with my speakers. All suggestion welcome. Thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 22 Dec 2011, 07:01 am
Hi,

I got best results with Arcotronics R75 and Audyn True Copper 0.1 as bypass. Cheap and wonderfull sounding. Clear, detailled but also smooth in the upper octaves.

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: AmCan on 22 Dec 2011, 11:59 am
Hi,

I got best results with Arcotronics R75 and Audyn True Copper 0.1 as bypass. Cheap and wonderfull sounding. Clear, detailled but also smooth in the upper octaves.

Peter

I haven't heard much about Audyn. That's a copper foil. Will they tame the brightness? My thinking was that the Clarity MRs with an RTE bypass would place more focus on the lower treble and the RTEs would sweeten the pot.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Roni on 4 Jan 2012, 05:42 am
Hi Jon and others,
I read the entire thread, very helpfull, great read, most enjoyable, just wondering if you thought of trying these caps?

 ModWright MOIP Series Film Capacitors (Metalized Oil-Impregnated Polypropylene)
 
I am going to renew the coupling caps in my Jasmine phono. At this time after reading your thread I like the ClarityCap MR Series Film Capacitor,

 also  my martain logon speakers are almost 20 years old now and there are 3 caps I could renew, 2 are 15 uf and the other is 250 uf. I was thinking to repalce the 2, 15uf with ClarityCap MR Series Film Capacitors and by pass the 250 uf with a Ebay Russian teflon. any sugestions?  :scratch:
Thanks again for all your reporting, and this great thread
Roni







Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: murf on 13 Jan 2012, 10:30 pm
Hello Jon & Other Audio Experts!
Most of these cap trials are done in amps & such.  Is there any way to relate the sound in these usages to predict the sound if the caps are used in a speaker xover, pls?   :scratch:

Murf
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 13 Jan 2012, 10:42 pm
Most of these cap trials are done in amps & such.  Is there any way to relate the sound in these usages to predict the sound if the caps are used in a speaker xover, pls?   :scratch:
Nope. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Rclark on 13 Jan 2012, 10:45 pm
Am probably 50-60 hours burning in Jupiter Beeswax flats  bypassed with Mundorf Silver in Oil on my speakers. It has been rough but there are times like now where it's just gorgeous. Looking forward though to the 400 plus hour mark thanks to comments in this thread. Already a very spacious and lush sound.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: serengetiplains on 2 Feb 2012, 01:36 am
Here's some reading for those interested.  Psvane "teflon" capacitors are mylar ... but with teflon insulated leads.  It was the leads, you see, insulated with audiophile teflon.  Get it?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1327073472&&&/Psvane-Teflon-capacitors-real-or-fakes-
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 2 Feb 2012, 02:18 am
Here's some reading for those interested.  Psvane "teflon" capacitors are mylar ... but with teflon insulated leads.  It was the leads, you see, insulated with audiophile teflon.  Get it?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1327073472&&&/Psvane-Teflon-capacitors-real-or-fakes-

You've GOT to be kidding me  :duh:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Davey on 2 Feb 2012, 01:24 pm
Snake oil and false advertising in the audiophile capacitor business?  Oh my gosh, say it isn't so.  :)

Dave.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: *Scotty* on 2 Feb 2012, 02:34 pm
Nevermind.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ChrisVH on 2 Feb 2012, 05:37 pm
Have a closer look, Scotty. Here are some search results for the topic in question: http://goo.gl/9ZvYa (http://goo.gl/9ZvYa). Simply click on the "cached" link, to view each page, which is a few days older. They just changed the descriptions, after this <ahem> minor little translation oversight was uncovered.
 
I’d made numerous e-mail requests to both Grant and Psvane (since September of 2011) to stop using the V-Cap trademark CuTF. Grant did acknowledge, and took down from their site (although forum posts still remain). Psvane didn’t remove until a few days ago, around the time they posted their official "Mylar" response at Audiogon: http://goo.gl/fhJtX  (http://goo.gl/fhJtX)

Perhaps Psvane would have felt differently about trademark use if a competitor borrowed the term “Treasure” to market its own tube line – and this competitor purported to use similar materials to Psvane’s line of tubes. Can’t help but wonder if Psvane would consider this an attempt to "copy", or at the very least an attempt to dilute their brand, as well as unfairly harvest search engine queries for Psvane's product trademark? As many know, there is little hope for trademark protection enforcement with Chinese companies- especially when you're a smaller operation, with little budget to go after large companies. Audiophiles, as a group, are a smart bunch  :thumb: – they can come to their own conclusions on what’s really happened here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/194521-psvane-teflon-film-copper-foil-caps-600v-rating-starting-99-pair.html (http://goo.gl/lszAr) :oops:

BTW- I had responded to the Audiogon thread Wednesday morning, but it would appear the moderators didn’t feel appropriate to post. Update: Audiogon did finally post my response early this morning (2-3-2012).
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 2 Feb 2012, 05:50 pm
WOW.   :o
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: *Scotty* on 2 Feb 2012, 06:20 pm
And now we have the rest of the story, Thanks Chris.
It's enough to make you wary of buying parts sourced from China.
Scotty
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jerrin on 22 Feb 2012, 03:34 am
Any thoughts on the Duelund Alexanders or the V-cap cuTF?  I need some caps for my tube amp and I'm trying to decide which way to go.   I'm curious as to what each of these excel in compared to the other.

Anyone have any experience?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 15 Apr 2012, 12:40 am
I have a new champion cap, at least in my system as DC blocking input caps on my DIY monoblock power amps.

These are nearly the highest rated caps in Tony Gee's comprehensive review of caps in crossover duty.  Since I was looking for something less expensive than the best Mundorf, VCap, Dueland, etc., I thought I'd give these a try. 

Intertechnik Audyn True Copper is not available from a US distributor, so I ordered directly from the factory in Germany.  If someone is smart, they'll snap up the distribution rights in North America.  Although they're relatively inexpensive compared to other premium caps, shipping alone added more than $20.

Still worth every penny.  In fact, they might be the best bargain in caps out there, being the lowest price cap I could find that uses polypro film and true copper foil.  They are very dense.  These are the best caps I've heard in my system, including Mundorf Silver/Gold.  They are tonally pure, with excellent spatial representation and startling dynamics.  Midrange is clear and accurate, very present yet an integral part of the complete sonic image.  Vocals are uncannily realistic.  Highs are sweet yet detailed, with no coloration at any frequency that I can detect.  Nothing sounds forward or emphasized.  I hear only a totally realistic presentation of music, projected from a real space into a thoroughly convincing sphere of a soundstage.

If anyone cares to experiment, I'd like corroboration of this cap's superiority to most others available.

Peace,
Tom E   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: scutterflux on 12 Jun 2012, 04:48 pm
Hi

Fantastic reviews and discussion, my favorite thread of the past couple months!

So the SCR/Solen/Obligato Tin Foil Teflon has been out for a few years now and it's not very well reviewed anywhere, does anybody here have any experience with it and could they possibly write a bit of a description?  All I've found is "very detailed" and "sounds better than ___ pp cap", there is this one guy who chose it over V-cap tftf and Mundorf s/g/o and the only reason he gave was he missed "A" or "B" depending which one he was listening to, so he chose niether and went with the SCR teflon.

Also my teflon experience right now is with ft-3's and 1's and I hear "slippery polish," is there a favorite remedy for this? maybe like a pio bypass? Does that work?

And is there any favorite cap for a snappy organic live drum sound?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: driguy on 13 Jun 2012, 10:21 pm
I realize that this is mostly a thread about coupling and crossover caps. That being said I wanted to pass on some info about a relative newcomer in the power supply cap arena. I recently built a tubed headphone amp that required high voltage on the plate (~400V). I have been using the Mundorf M-Tube caps for the last couple of builds and have been very happy with the results especially in comparison to the electrolytics (yes, Blackgates) that were in one of the amps to start with. The M-Tube caps are really a nice step up if you have the room and I still recommend them.
Recently ClarityCap has introduced the TC series of high voltage Polypropylene capacitors. I was curious about the potential sound so I ordered a pair even though I had a pair of the M-Tube caps broken in and ready to go from a previous project. The power supply is basically a tube rectified CLCLC design. Nothing too special but as most folks know, the last cap is essentially in the signal path so the quality there is very important and apparent. I had the circuit breadboarded so it was pretty easy to change the caps out and I was very close to the final layout so the sound differences will not have changed. I have only changed the cathode resistance a little.
So, how do they sound? Well, the Mundorfs are very smooth yet detailed with none of the grain or haze that can come with electrolytics. IMO that haze comes across as a loss of air, space, soundstaging and a dulling of leading edges and decays. Once I put in the ClarityCap TC series though things opened up even more. There did not seem to be an accentuation of any particular frequency band. Everything just opened up and not by a small amount. Please remember though that I am listening through headphones. The ClarityCaps are not misnamed in this case. Most folks here will pretty much get what I am saying as they have heard similar things happen with the other caps they use in other parts of their systems.
Pricing is in the ballpark of the Mundorfs. Let me also state that my system design goals are for a relatively uncolored sound. I do not like overdetailed "in your face" sound but I do want to hear what is there. Therefore I try not to editorialize the sound. I use VH-Audio CuTF caps as couplers in my 300b amp and Dueland VSF as output caps for my DAC and my speaker crossover so you can judge my taste by that.
I am still using the M-Tube Caps for the first two capacitor stages as I had them already. I still like them very much and I listen to them in my main amps all the time but if starting from scratch I would choose the TC caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 14 Jun 2012, 01:25 am
driguy,

Thank you for that. Great review. And nice that you compared it with a known type of power supply cap, i.e. the Mundorf M-Tube types.

Will look into Clarity Cap TC series.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: scutterflux on 17 Jun 2012, 09:46 am
Hi driguy,

so when you say the last cap in the power section is most important, that would mean if you had 4 caps in series then the one closest the B+ is the most important one, and bassed on what I think you're saying is that a markable improvment will be made by replacing that one alone?

Also I might add there's huge improvement to be had when bypassing electrolytic power caps with russian teflon.   :thumb:

Also I went ahead and ordered the solen tftf caps after I finally found an excellent review/comparison that touted V-cap as markedly better than rel-cap, however the solen being much closer to V-cap and very hard to tell the difference was this guys #2 recomended cap, but a close #2.

Maybe I could throw down a review comparing them to FT-3's.  I have a feeling the teflon will bring the snap back I lost when I swapped for mundorf sio's, and ampohm copper, I guess I just followed those natural and textured tone mods down deep into the soundstage and lost the bite on the snare drum.  It was in an opposite response from the forward FT-3's that seemed to push me back in my chair that had me searching for depth.  Now to just take one steps back in the capacitor department, but maybe not back to the FT-3.  Although judging by how the power section mellowed with time after I used these as bypass makes me think they hadn't competely burned in yet.  I did make a hack burn in rig and gave them at least 200hrs, but maybe there was to low current in my rig, I think I'll use an old amp and a 4ohm resistor to do the solens for at least 200hrs.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speedskater on 18 Jun 2012, 02:39 pm
With power supply caps, the cap nearest whatever device is receiving the DC power is the most important cap.  This last cap should be as near to this tube, transistor or op-amp as practicable.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: driguy on 18 Jun 2012, 06:18 pm
Hi driguy,

so when you say the last cap in the power section is most important, that would mean if you had 4 caps in series then the one closest the B+ is the most important one, and bassed on what I think you're saying is that a markable improvment will be made by replacing that one alone?

Yes, changing the last cap is the most important. I only changed the last cap in the amp I was building to get the results described.  Also, the previous post about it's location is important as well. It should be pretty close to the tube if at all possible.
Now I am not certain about what you mean about 4 caps in series though. The voltage rating of these caps should eliminate the need to series connect the caps. If they are in parallel to add capacitance, you may want to think about using just one well made cap of a moderate size appropriate to the purpose. Personally, I do not build tube gear power supplies without chokes. You can really knock down the ripple with even one stage being choke loaded, i.e. CLC. If you have not done it that way yet then I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the results. Caps alone even on a preamp to get rid of A/C ripple is not the best way IMO. Plus, it gets very expensive to get away from electrolytics using that methodology.
Regards,
Tony
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: scutterflux on 20 Jun 2012, 04:22 am
B+ is 950V on my amp, so series is good for the electrolytics here.  I believe there is a choke in there somewhere after the 300B but before the 805.

Anyway, I recieved the Solens, and immediatly hooked them up across the 4 electrolytics for 950V burn in, and wow off the bat detail and speed was noticed sound was good and tight but a little bright/thin/detail but still good.  Only an hour into listening and they had become sibalant/harsh and then only another hour after that they mellowed out and became smooth but appeared to retain the detail, and opened up as well as a little more body.  It was a very quickly running through tone changes in the power section, but the amp is very hot and there was 950V and probably a good share of the current so burn in appeard to be happening quickly.  Anyway I've done this before with the russian teflon and silver mica and have come back to the amp the next day only to have to start over.  Although on this early next morning when I turn on the amp, Crack! Sp.p.p.p.p.arkkk! What the??? Cap shorted and took out a resistor.  So I'll be a little late with any words about it's use in coupling position which is where they are to end up.  BTW Partsconnexion is going to replace it, as it was used within spec. It was the rated at 1000V model and died rather quickly, I think it's just a defect exposed.  I got the 1000V one because if I din't like them in coupling position maybe I would in bypass, and so far I did after they mellowed a bit.

In bypass mode I can't say anything for certain when compared to the FT-3's yet, other than very similar burning in sound experience.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speedskater on 20 Jun 2012, 01:11 pm
Wow, a 950 Volt power supply!  In this case a voltage dividing capacitor/resistor network is appropriate.  From an electronics point of view, in a series circuit there is no difference in the order of the capacitors.  But in a voltage dividing circuit they all need to be the same model number and value.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mboxler on 20 Jun 2012, 04:00 pm
Hi

As a learning experience, I'm building the Decware ZKIT1 (SE84C).  I ordered and received the website's recommended parts.

The coupling (and Hazen mod) caps are Cornell Dubilier (part # 150104J400EC... $.75 each).  I have some Tone Factory Vitamin-Q caps (from a failed project  :oops:) of the same values.

Which, if either, would be the best choice for the coupling caps?

Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 20 Jun 2012, 04:17 pm
Hi

As a learning experience, I'm building the Decware ZKIT1 (SE84C).  I ordered and received the website's recommended parts.

The coupling (and Hazen mod) caps are Cornell Dubilier (part # 150104J400EC... $.75 each).  I have some Tone Factory Vitamin-Q caps (from a failed project  :oops:) of the same values.

Which, if either, would be the best choice for the coupling caps?

Thanks, Mike

You'd have to try both and see. I would expect them to sound different being PIO vs Polyester film.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: TheMooN on 27 Jun 2012, 09:02 am
What an awesome piece of work , a reference for the inquiringly minded cap roller .

I hope thread contributors are OK with my asking for a little help ! I purchased 4 x 0.33 uf Ampohm copper caps new retail a while back  , only later bringing them out of the store bin for use in a much put off re-cap project .

Somewhat to my dismay it would appear that i must have acquired a Friday afternoon batch as one of the batch whilst labeled 0.33uf as per its friends actually measures 0.68 uf ?***!

Having periodically checked back with the UK dist it would appear pointless waiting for any further production during this life time and would be grateful for any advise as to an alternative substitute copper foil capacitor that might prove to provide as close balance the signature across the two channels as I could expect from a disparate quad .

The caps in question are coupling caps for 6L6 GC's and inside a global feedback network .

Any and All direction most gratefully received folks .
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 27 Jun 2012, 04:33 pm
What an awesome piece of work , a reference for the inquiringly minded cap roller .

I hope thread contributors are OK with my asking for a little help ! I purchased 4 x 0.33 uf Ampohm copper caps new retail a while back  , only later bringing them out of the store bin for use in a much put off re-cap project .

Somewhat to my dismay it would appear that i must have acquired a Friday afternoon batch as one of the batch whilst labeled 0.33uf as per its friends actually measures 0.68 uf ?***!

Having periodically checked back with the UK dist it would appear pointless waiting for any further production during this life time and would be grateful for any advise as to an alternative substitute copper foil capacitor that might prove to provide as close balance the signature across the two channels as I could expect from a disparate quad .

The caps in question are coupling caps for 6L6 GC's and inside a global feedback network .

Any and All direction most gratefully received folks .

Tubestore still has stock:

http://thetubestore.com/ampohmpio-copper.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: TheMooN on 27 Jun 2012, 04:55 pm
Ah !  I should have mentioned my location In my OP Dave  , thank you for that pointer unfortunately  I am 'Over The Pond' from you . Worthy of consideration tho .

I had hopes of the Deulund Alexanders , however at 30mm I fear they would prove too Lardy for my amp chassis , realistically I am looking at  25mm or slimmer !   
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Audioexcels on 9 Jul 2012, 08:57 am
I have a new champion cap, at least in my system as DC blocking input caps on my DIY monoblock power amps.

These are nearly the highest rated caps in Tony Gee's comprehensive review of caps in crossover duty.  Since I was looking for something less expensive than the best Mundorf, VCap, Dueland, etc., I thought I'd give these a try. 

Intertechnik Audyn True Copper is not available from a US distributor, so I ordered directly from the factory in Germany.  If someone is smart, they'll snap up the distribution rights in North America.  Although they're relatively inexpensive compared to other premium caps, shipping alone added more than $20.

Still worth every penny.  In fact, they might be the best bargain in caps out there, being the lowest price cap I could find that uses polypro film and true copper foil.  They are very dense.  These are the best caps I've heard in my system, including Mundorf Silver/Gold.  They are tonally pure, with excellent spatial representation and startling dynamics.  Midrange is clear and accurate, very present yet an integral part of the complete sonic image.  Vocals are uncannily realistic.  Highs are sweet yet detailed, with no coloration at any frequency that I can detect.  Nothing sounds forward or emphasized.  I hear only a totally realistic presentation of music, projected from a real space into a thoroughly convincing sphere of a soundstage.

If anyone cares to experiment, I'd like corroboration of this cap's superiority to most others available.

Peace,
Tom E

Bypass use or?  Curious what caps you use these to bypass with.

Cheers!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: TheMooN on 10 Jul 2012, 11:36 am
I would be most interested to hear from any member who has first hand experience of comparing Ampohm Copper's with Audio Note Copper's .

I am wondering whether any sonic disparity between the two might be ameliorated to the point of insignificance were I to run with a pair of Ampohm's in one channel of my integrated amp and pair the other Ampohm with an AN in the second channel  :scratch:

Any thoughts on this Franken-Plan would be much appreciated .       
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 15 Jul 2012, 01:07 am
"Bypass use or?  Curious what caps you use these to bypass with."

I thought I was pretty clear in my description.  These are DC blocking input caps in my amplifiers.  No bypass.  I have never liked the sound of bypass caps in line level signal path.  I have never heard two caps blend satisfactorily, and it always sseems to ssmear the highs.

Speaker xovers are a totally different story.  When large value caps are required, bypassing is almost mandatory to control costs, and usually successful.  The best I've found are Mundorf SIO.  They are superb as small value bypass with caps in series with the tweeter.  Used elsewhere, I find they tend to "tip up" the frequency response and  weaken the bass.  With tweeters, their best qualities, clarity and spaciousness, can make highs sound detailed and 3D with realistic tonality.

Peace,
Tom E
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 18 Sep 2012, 05:02 am
Just bypassed Sonicap Gen 1s in my speaker xo w/ Vishay MKP1837. So far I am very impressed and think the humblehomemadhifi cap test review is right on - it opens the sound up and cleans some of the grain, impressive separation of instruments and micro-detail. Had Gen II bypasses before which were fine, more subtle than anything but the 1837 elevates the performance of the Gen I. Not the treble-enhaced brightness that some bypasses cause but real step up in retrieval and presentation. I am using .1uf now available from Mouser! Not bad for $1.30. Think I'm going to buy more...  8)

Oh and the Gen I caps are *great* caps imo - poor man's clarity cap mr...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 18 Sep 2012, 06:08 am
Just bypassed Sonicap Gen 1s in my speaker xo w/ Vishay MKP1837. So far I am very impressed and think the humblehomemadhifi cap test review is right on - it opens the sound up and cleans some of the grain, impressive separation of instruments and micro-detail. Had Gen II bypasses before which were fine, more subtle than anything but the 1837 elevates the performance of the Gen I. Not the treble-enhaced brightness that some bypasses cause but real step up in retrieval and presentation. I am using .1uf now available from Mouser! Not bad for $1.30. Think I'm going to buy more...  8)

Oh and the Gen I caps are *great* caps imo - poor man's clarity cap mr...

I ran those as a bypass for my SET amp's output tubes cathode caps for a while, they made for a huge improvement. I changed them out for Clarity ESA 250V 1.5 uF caps, they made a very subtle change for the better. Those 1837s are a great value for sure though.

------------------------

I also changed out a Mundorf M Tube Cap in my amp's PS for a Clarity TC series cap and I think the Clarity is a hair better. Not really worth changing out except I got a good deal on the Clarity caps.

I changed out the final electrolytic PS caps in my Aikido preamp for 110 uF Clarity TC caps and this was a MASSIVE improvement. These Clarity TC caps are a must-have for any tube amp/preamp's power supply. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 27 Sep 2012, 04:08 pm
Hello,
Normally i just post in the virtue circle but because that circle is running on 3 wheels i decided to post my question here.
I am about to receive some k75-10 and ft-3 caps to use in my elipson loudspeaker crossover and my sensation amp. I did read about determining the outer foil without using a scope. It was done by connecting the capacitor between hot and ground at an amplifier injputterminal and touching the cap to '' stimulate '' some kind of interference. Less noise would mean that the side connected to the ground side would be the outer foil. Is this correct and would connecting at a line level input be sufficient or do i need a more sensitive one?
Apart from the caps arriving soon i also have the ft-3 600 volts ( i think the ft-2 200 volts would be better because they are smaller and being used in a transistor class d integrated the tension needed is low ,now using a 63 volts polysterene)  and the k40y-9.
The k75-10 will be used in the crossover maybe with a 100nf ft-2 as bypass.
Because i am not a native English speaker nor a technician i would like some guidance ( if i did misunderstood the way to find the outerfoil)
Thanksalot in advance, Edward
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: peter61 on 28 Sep 2012, 06:12 am
Hi Edward,

Because I own an oscilloscope I have never used the way you describe to determine the outer foil of a capacitor, but it will work for sure. Connect the capacitor to a RCA plug and connect it to a line input of your pre-amp. Start with the volume control way down and turn it up until you hear some hum while holding the capacitor under test in your hand (to induce some hum). Then reverse the capacitor connections and observe the hum again (with the volume control at the same point off course). The least hum is heard when the outer foil is connected to the ground.

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: peter61 on 28 Sep 2012, 07:26 am
Recently I did some tests with Russian PIO capacitors that might be interesting for others.

First I did some measurements using an oscilloscope to determine the outer foil of some K40Y,  K75-10 and K75-24 capacitors. In total I tested 33 capacitors of 5 different values and found to my astonishment that, while observing the printed text on the capacitor, the outer foil is not always at the same side! All tested types/values had outer foils on either side. In my batch about 75% of the capacitors had the outer foil on the side where the text starts, the others at the side where the text stops.

Additional I did some listening tests with K75-10 2u2/250V caps. Not as coupling caps, but as power supply bypasses. I placed them in parallel with the main PSU filter caps directly after the rectifiers of my Buffalo III test setup. The question was, is it possible to hear differences between both orientations of the capacitor? Well actually this was very easy to determine. But again the results were not what I expected. I expected the best sonic results with the outer foil connected to GND, thus shielding the inner of the capacitor to the outer world. But the opposite is true. With the outer foil connected to the + or – there is better focus, dynamics and tonality.

Another funny thing I notice again and again is that the specific sonic properties of a certain type of capacitor when used as coupling cap, also shows up when used as power supply bypass. So the rich and tuneful character of K75 also shows up when used as bypass capacitor.

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 29 Sep 2012, 09:26 pm
Hello Peter and all the others,
Thank you for the extra confirmation on the outer foil issue.
Like i said before I will have some Russian caps soon. K40y and ft-2 100nf as cap in my Virtue sensation for the 80hertz and up frequency range.
In my elipson speaker there is a filter for the tweeter with a 18 db filter with two caps in serie one 4 microfarad and one 4,7 microfarad. For the 4 i will use 4 1 microfarad in parallel and for the 4,7 i will use a single4,7 . Both values will be k75-10 caps. Maybe bypassed with 100nf ft-2. I will match them and try to find the outer foil. The original caps are one metalized polyester and one metalized polypropylene. I am looking for a more spatial and involving sound.We will see what the improvement will be once they arrive. Maybe i will burn them in by connecting them in a power supply.
Peter, Thanks again for the advicer, Edward
P.s any additional thoughts are always welcome
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ptmconsulting on 30 Sep 2012, 03:01 am
Just received 4 x 1.0uF K40Y's for use in my speaker crossover. They will be paired with Sonicaps to make up the 5.0uF and 10.0 uF values that I need in there.

The 1.0's are the largest values I saw on e-bay and should be more then sufficient to carry off what I am hoping for - more of a sense of space and warmth and naturalness.

They are installed and breaking in now. I do definitely hear more space and a natural lack of extension during the break in process. More time is needed.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 30 Sep 2012, 04:33 am
Hello,
If you need 10. Ehy not go for the 10 microfarad k75-10. Some people say they are very nice, nicer than the k40y. Maybe you will have to buy a few to match them. Or ask the shop to match them. Somer people bypass them with a little teflon. Sincere greetings, Edward
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: peter61 on 1 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm
Edward,

After you have found where outer foil is, try both orientations of the capacitor and see what you like best. I am sure they will sound different.
Also let them “burn in”. A few days ago I replaced out of curiosity a 2,2uF K75-10 capacitor that I had used for a few weeks, for one of the same batch that had not been used yet. The used one sounded clearly better. It was like the effect of cleaning your spectacles.

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 1 Oct 2012, 11:00 pm
Hello Peter,
For my Virtue sensation i will use the 100nf. For my crossover there is 4 microfarad and then 4,7 microfarad. In between them is a coil to ground. Bot caps are in series with the tweeter which startys at 3000 hertz if i am right.
The caps used now aren''t high grade so i expect an improvement.
It will be a days work to replace the caps so i would like to know if the outerfoil has to be closer to the tweeter or closer to the amp? At first i like the sound to be melodic and spatial. More detail isn't that important to me.
The 4 microfarad will be made by joining 4 1 microfarad. Maybe use two of them in reverse. Or use the 4,7 in opposite direction compared to the 4 microfarad.
The caps have been send so i expect them in a few days. I will burn them in after determining the outerfoil for a few days. But you should burn them in in the same way you are going to use them if i am right.
as you can see in the image there will have to be some diy to replkace the two yellow caps by the Russian green ones. The 4 mf is connected to other parts on the vrossover. The 4,7 is connected to the tweeter by means of a 5 watt wirewound. Probably i will leave the 4,7 somewhere '' in space ''
We will see once they arrive, Edward
Don't wanna replace the the caps in the amp and the crossover at the same time. I think the cap used in my Virtue is better than the ones used in the crossover. It is a 50dollarcents surplus cap from a good company
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68736)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Big Red Machine on 1 Oct 2012, 11:16 pm
Anybody try Duelands in their electronics as coupling caps?  (seems we're focused on speakers right now)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 2 Oct 2012, 04:28 am
Hello,
The Virtue sensation is an integrated class D amplifier with a 100 nf that will be changed soon. Normally there is a full range cap and a 80hertz and above cap which can be selected with an internal switch. Mine has the original 80hertz cap and my surplus cap ( 50 dollarcents)
I have the k40y-9, ft-3 600volts and the ft-2 200 volts. I wanna replace the original one with the ft-2 once they arrive here.
The picture is indeed a crossover but the cap has the same task.
Sincere greetings, Edward
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jerrin on 3 Oct 2012, 04:14 pm
Anybody try Duelands in their electronics as coupling caps?  (seems we're focused on speakers right now)

I've got a pair of Dodd amps being built right now that are using Duelund for all of the coupling caps.   When I get them in later this month, I'll post pics and share my impressions.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 3 Oct 2012, 05:23 pm
I've got a pair of Dodd amps being built right now that are using Duelund for all of the coupling caps.   When I get them in later this month, I'll post pics and share my impressions.

Please do. Having owned the Mono 50s, and having heard the 120s several times at a friends, I can imagine those will be amazing!  :drool:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 13 Oct 2012, 08:29 am
How to bypass Caps?
Is there any (mathematical) rule?
In which way to you do it?

Thanks,
Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 13 Oct 2012, 11:11 am
AIUI - for PS caps from DC rail to ground - you use a value which is nominally 1/100th of the original value ... then 1/100th again.

So if you had a 1,000uF electrolytic, you would add 10uF and 100nF film caps.

Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 21 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm
Hello Peter and the rest,
A few days i did receive a parcel with Russian caps. Especially the k75-10 make the typical audiophile caps like entry level components. I did figure out how to use my Russian scope from the cold war days. I mean i did find out how to find the outer foil after making some pairs to use in my crossover. Most of the outer foils were on the side where the wring on the caps begins but with some caps it was on the other side.
Now i am burning them in by applying a 22 volts tension and a 900 milliampere current flowing by means of a big bleeder.
I think that in the crossover they will take long time to break in because they are in seies with the tweeter. I will leave them with this current for a few days. I expect replacing the caps will take some time because they are much bigger than the original ones.. I will report once they are in.
Maybe later i will add a small teflon cap like 40 or 50nf. Sometimes adding different caps will make the sound less coherent.
Sincere greetings, Edward
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 27 Oct 2012, 02:36 am
I just won some new Feastrex Urushi capacitors and am trying them out next to RelCap PCU copper foil caps ($113 ea) as the output caps in my Aikido preamp, which just happens to have 2 outputs... I currently have the Feastrex caps in one and the RelCaps in the other, both are .47 uF.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/feastrex/220954-rmaf-2012-free-urushi-caps.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: TrungT on 27 Oct 2012, 02:53 am
Congratulation Dave.
 :thumb:
Please keep us posted.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: oncle_tom on 19 Dec 2012, 07:22 am
Congratulation Dave.
 :thumb:
Please keep us posted.
Please let us know...

Peter
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 19 Dec 2012, 03:38 pm
I have done a more thorough comparison, and it is close. The RelCaps are copper foil and are a touch warmer with a little more harmonic texture. The Urushis are very clear and neutral. I could live with either happily and I believe there are more differences than one being clearly better. In my system I have a slight preference for the RelCaps, but they are also 2x the price and only rated to 400V.

I think these are great coupling caps for the price and I'm sure they will be very popular after more folks get to try them out and word spreads. The .47 uF 1000V caps are about $60 ea.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rpf on 12 Jan 2013, 11:04 pm
Has anyone heard anything about the new Mundorf Evo line?

Especially the Evo Silver/Gold/Oil?

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mcap_evo_sgo.html

They are a bit taller but a lot shorter than many other similarly rated caps. Supposedly the next step down from the Supreme line but significantly less expensive.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bluemike on 12 Jan 2013, 11:28 pm
fwiw I really like the clarity cap MR
They do many things right in my opinion :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jsq on 26 Jan 2013, 09:00 pm
 Hello
Has anyone used the auricap xo caps. I am thinking about using them in my amp but space is real tight and all the real premium stuff is just too big. The auricap xo is the right size to change out the 1.0 mF 250v wima that's in there now.  Cheers!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 27 Jan 2013, 05:30 am
Hello
Has anyone used the auricap xo caps. I am thinking about using them in my amp but space is real tight and all the real premium stuff is just too big. The auricap xo is the right size to change out the 1.0 mF 250v wima that's in there now.  Cheers!

Check out the Clarity ESA series, they have a lower voltage model that's A LOT smaller than most other botique caps and the price is good too. I have not used auricaps but have been really happy with 2 different Clarity Caps I've tried.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 27 Jan 2013, 08:14 am
Hello
Has anyone used the auricap xo caps. I am thinking about using them in my amp but space is real tight and all the real premium stuff is just too big. The auricap xo is the right size to change out the 1.0 mF 250v wima that's in there now.  Cheers!

 
  The V-cap OIMP's are also small in size which may fit your space.
  As well as Sonicap's and AudioCap Theta's.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jsq on 28 Jan 2013, 01:26 am
 :D Thanks Guys for the suggestions. I just might be able to get the V-cap oimp to fit .  I'm tired of the overly sterile sound afforded to my amp that some people believe could be the WIMA  mkp. It has good detail and extension but no emotion. There has been a mix of review material on the web, but some people swear by them as well and they're a better price than the tftf v-cap. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 28 Jan 2013, 08:04 pm
:D Thanks Guys for the suggestions. I just might be able to get the V-cap oimp to fit .  I'm tired of the overly sterile sound afforded to my amp that some people believe could be the WIMA  mkp. It has good detail and extension but no emotion. There has been a mix of review material on the web, but some people swear by them as well and they're a better price than the tftf v-cap.

If you don't like the WIMA sound, the Russian military K75-10 paper/mylar in oil cap may be worth tryng as well.  It's a unique-sounding cap, very non-sterile yet detailed, and cheap. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jsq on 29 Jan 2013, 06:42 am
thanks again!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jsq on 1 Feb 2013, 08:23 pm
I installed a 0.01 mF cutf v-cap in bypass configuration for each of 2-  3.3 mF mundorf silver/oil and also for 2 Dueland Alexander .47 mF caps. Right off the bat it was an instant increase in resolution and more than that the midrange became so solid and fleshed out that it just makes you melt.  It was great before, but it exceeds my expectations even before it is broken in. I know I will have to deal with some growing pains before it finally reaches its potential , but I am enjoying the ride. I am really glad that I began reading this forum. cheers!!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: underdawg on 1 Feb 2013, 08:27 pm
caps can make a difference    :P
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: madisonears on 2 Feb 2013, 07:57 pm
Thanks for the report.  To me, bypassing Mundorf SIO and Duelund Alexander seems like gilding the lily.  I have never been satisfied with bypassing caps at line level.  I know it can be done, but it usually takes a lot of trial and error to get the right combination.  Putting two beautiful caps together does not automatically yield twice the beauty.  In fact, I have found Mundorf caps in general to be the worst candidates for combining with other caps.  The SIO by itself is superb, perhaps the best, at resolving high and mid frequencies with depth and natural tone.  Putting any other cap in parallel seemed to disrupt the highs with something like an echo. 

I have to be a bit skeptical about the trial instantly providing such spectacular results.  Most teflon caps, especially the CuTf  V-cap, are notorious for taking forever to break in, and some don't sound very good at all for the first few hours.  You don't say what the application is, but I assume it's line level in the preamp you mentioned above.  With such a low level signal, I would expect at least hundreds of hours before these caps revealed their true nature and their resplendent qualities.

Besides, putting a .01uF cap, no matter how good, in parallel with 3.3uF is probably not going to yield such spectacular results.  It is only one three-hundred-thirtieth of the total capacitance, and I just don't see that making a world of difference.

I appreciate the fact that you just dropped a ton of money on a couple of pretty expensive caps that are very highly regarded.  Are you certain your perception is not influeneced by that fact?  Please spend a few days or even weeks evaluating the sound, and consider coming back after that to kindly share your impressions with us again.  Subjectivity does require at least a modicum of objectivity to be valid.

Peace,
Tom E
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jsq on 12 Feb 2013, 06:00 pm
 I understand that this might sound like I'm getting ahead of myself. I was fully prepared to wait patiently while the system trudges along the path to stabilization. It sounded veiled and dark for about 45 minutes and something clicked and it began to open up.  the silver oils had 250 hrs on them when I put the the v-caps in. It  has not stabilized yet. there is occasional roughness on leading edges and slight graininess here and there but there is so much more there than before. It is so lit up compared to even before I had just the sio's. And the sio's and alexanders were a monolithic improvement over stock.  My wife sits with me for 2 hours asking me to put on music she likes. My kids remark to me how good it sounds in passing. Something that has never happened before. I am using analysis audio epsilons for speakers with 2 tannoy 10" subs.  The speakers use a 36" ribbon tweeter and a planar bass panel. I have actually spent allot more money changing out components with a much smaller improvement. I am just so glad that the break-in has been so easy to live with. I will check back in about a month once things have fully settled in.    thanks for all of your insight!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: dimkasta on 21 Feb 2013, 09:38 am
What made me write here was post #387 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.msg659151#msg659151

Basically I am experimenting with coupling caps and led bypass caps for my DCB1

Currently I am using Mundorf Supremes at 2.2uF (non oil, non silver, just plain black ones) and while I am very happy with them, things some times feel a bit lifeless. I really miss that bitey "center of earth" middle that Jon L described so nicely on the post about KT75s. Plus I really want some more sparkle on the highs. And since my speakers are also more on the clinical side, I decided to give the Russians a try. (amp is 220k input, so 2.2uF is not a prob for lows)
For the led bypass I currently use red 0.1uF WIMAs.

I have ordered some KT75s at 2.2uF and some FT3s at 0.1uF and 0.22uF. I intent on using one KT75 bypassed by a 0.1uF FT3 for coupling and a single 0.1uF FT3 to replace the Wima.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again for an awesome thread :)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jerrin on 14 May 2013, 04:39 pm
Please do. Having owned the Mono 50s, and having heard the 120s several times at a friends, I can imagine those will be amazing!  :drool:

As an update, my amps are slowly making it to the finish line.   I haven't forgotten to share more info on them, but they are still in production.  I agreed with Gary to take his time on them and work on them in between his other orders, so he could ultimately take more time to get them just right.

As for what's in them, I went with Duelund silver wiring, Duelund caps, and Texas Components Tx-2575 everywhere I could throughout the amps.   I'm really excited to see what Gary does with these.   They will provide around 200 watts each.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: nickbojko on 18 May 2013, 09:09 pm
has anybody tried replacing their lead out wires of their capacitors with OCC silver?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: barrows on 25 May 2013, 12:39 am
re bypassing line level coupling caps.  Many believe use of any bypass caps in the signal path is questionable from a technical perspective.  Two different caps, of differing values, will result in additional time delays, blurring the signal in time.
Most of the time it is probably going to be better to just use the best single cap which one can for the job at hand.

I am still wondering if anyone has tried the Auracap XO for coupling?  Any thoughts vs, say, Mundorf Supreme?  The Auracap XO is nice and compact as well, a plus in my thinking.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 25 May 2013, 01:34 am
re bypassing line level coupling caps.  Many believe use of any bypass caps in the signal path is questionable from a technical perspective.  Two different caps, of differing values, will result in additional time delays, blurring the signal in time.
Most of the time it is probably going to be better to just use the best single cap which one can for the job at hand.


In theory I agree... that can certainly happen. I'd prefer to use one high quality cap over a bypassing an inferior cap, but that's not practical in many circumstances. It's very common to parallel caps in a power supply, if you need more than a couple hundred uF the prices of film caps get way up there, as does the size of the cap. I have also heard significant improvements in the cathode bypass caps on my power tubes. In that position you need a large electrolytic cap and I used a Clarity film cap to bypass the electrolytic, which was a great improvement. It's not easy to use electrolytic caps without degrading the sound, but if you have to use one I believe it is always best to bypass it with a film cap to minimize the damage. I have never tried bypassing signal coupling caps, that's one application where I could see the disadvantages becoming audible... but they are usually small value caps anyway.

Also, I consider the last stage of the PS filter and cathode bypass caps in the signal path, but are not dc-blocking coupling caps.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 25 May 2013, 01:44 am
Many people believe lots of things.  I want to BE LIVE.  The only way to know if something is better or not is to experiment and listen on a seriously tweak system, not quote others who "believe" something.  My direct experience tells me that bypassing is really a necessity.  I have never heard a very large cap (1uf or more) that had really great extended highs.  Audio Research bypasses their exotic custom large Teflon caps with smaller values.  They do this because they listen.  A friend just bypassed his Clarity Cap MRs in his speaker with the inexpensive Vishay Roderstein .01s and .1s and says it made a serious improvement.  Audio tweaking is an art.  Certainly you must listen to different combos of caps and all properly burned in, oriented and damped.  All film caps need to be marked for outside foil and oriented so the outside foil is to ground or to the output.  This makes a noticeable improvement.  Also all caps should be damped....ie not dangling in the air....and all long single strand bare wires need to be covered with cotton sleeving to damp them.  All these things are very audible.  A person posted on Audio Asylum that he tried the Vishay Rodersteins as a bypass cap but they sounded seriously bright.  I replied that he probably has them dangling in the air on undamped leads.....he reported back a few days later saying....indeed, I was right...as soon as he damped the caps and wires he now is very happy with the bypasses.  Everything has to be done right!!!!!!  Years ago I modded an Audio Research Preamp that had both Rel-caps and Wondercaps in it.  Audio Research did not know about outside foil then.  So, they just lined all the caps up so the writing was in the same directions for visual coolness.  I removed all the film caps and tested the Rel-caps and marked them for outside foil and put all caps back in, in the electrically correct way (Wonder caps are marked for outside foil via the writing on them)......way frickin better sound.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Manolo on 5 Jul 2013, 01:28 pm
I have a pair of V-caps 0.68uf -original vcaps- as interstage coupling caps in my Supratek preamp and was wondering about bypassing them with, say 0.10 to 0.22 uf CU v-caps.... Has anyone tried something like that with their Vcaps?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: driguy on 5 Jul 2013, 09:07 pm
I have a pair of V-caps 0.68uf -original vcaps- as interstage coupling caps in my Supratek preamp and was wondering about bypassing them with, say 0.10 to 0.22 uf CU v-caps.... Has anyone tried something like that with their Vcaps?

I had the original V-Caps as coupling caps in my amplifiers. I switched to the CuTF coupling caps (.22uF) and used the TuTF caps as a bypass for the last capacitor in the power supply. The CuTF caps (IME) don't really need to be bypassed when used as coupling caps. Of course, yours are larger in value so that may not be your experience. I realize that purchasing a pair of .68uF caps is more money but in overall gain you should be ahead of the game overall. I am not familiar with the schematic of the Supratek but almost any last power supply cap bypassed seems to help quite a bit. I have used Blackgates, Mundorf M-Tube caps and now I use Clarity T-Caps (the last two non-electrolytics) and they all benefited from the bypass cap. I personally am not a fan of bypassing caps in the signal path but that is my preference. Also, a .68 coupling cap seems like a high value but I don't know the circuit. You may be able to back off on the size and reduce the hit on your budget.
I recently finished building a 20b/300b amplifier with the Clarity Caps in the power supply and believe me, the bypass cap on the power supply cap made a significant difference.
Also, if you have not heard what the CuTF caps can do you are in for a treat. You may want to contact Supratek and ask about lowering the value. Some builders will add extra capacitance if there is room and it is not too expensive. The price of a .22 vs. a .68 cap is very high.
Best Regards,
Tony
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Manolo on 6 Jul 2013, 12:38 pm
Thank you. The stock coupling caps were 1 uf btw, I. Do not know if the circuit would be optimized with much smaller value capacitors.... I was thinking that by bypassing the 0.68 uf caps with the copper Vcaps Some of the better qualities of the latter could be obtained.... But it is an expensive experiment... Just to find out.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 6 Jul 2013, 03:25 pm
Many people believe lots of things.  I want to BE LIVE.  The only way to know if something is better or not is to experiment and listen on a seriously tweak system, not quote others who "believe" something.  My direct experience tells me that bypassing is really a necessity.  I have never heard a very large cap (1uf or more) that had really great extended highs.  Audio Research bypasses their exotic custom large Teflon caps with smaller values.  They do this because they listen.  A friend just bypassed his Clarity Cap MRs in his speaker with the inexpensive Vishay Roderstein .01s and .1s and says it made a serious improvement.  Audio tweaking is an art.  Certainly you must listen to different combos of caps and all properly burned in, oriented and damped.  All film caps need to be marked for outside foil and oriented so the outside foil is to ground or to the output.  This makes a noticeable improvement.  Also all caps should be damped....ie not dangling in the air....and all long single strand bare wires need to be covered with cotton sleeving to damp them.  All these things are very audible.  A person posted on Audio Asylum that he tried the Vishay Rodersteins as a bypass cap but they sounded seriously bright.  I replied that he probably has them dangling in the air on undamped leads.....he reported back a few days later saying....indeed, I was right...as soon as he damped the caps and wires he now is very happy with the bypasses.  Everything has to be done right!!!!!!  Years ago I modded an Audio Research Preamp that had both Rel-caps and Wondercaps in it.  Audio Research did not know about outside foil then.  So, they just lined all the caps up so the writing was in the same directions for visual coolness.  I removed all the film caps and tested the Rel-caps and marked them for outside foil and put all caps back in, in the electrically correct way (Wonder caps are marked for outside foil via the writing on them)......way frickin better sound.


  Excellent information Sir. My Consonance 211s use V-cap TIO. I thought a bit bright sounding. Went back in damped the leads with compressed wool in lieu of cotton and very pleased with results. No longer bright. I had the caps hot glued. Removed glue and then secured to a nylon base with compressed wool over the cap. To my ears a major improvement. BTW the bases used are Pon-tune footer bases.  We also like 3/8" th. Ebony for the base and under trannies as well. have fun listening and trying.
     As an aside replaced Cardas output coupling caps in the Arion Class "D" amps with Duelund CAST [ copper]. Man they took forever to break in. Stopped changing with over 600 hours on them. Anyone else experience a long break in time with the CAST ? BTW no going back they are the cap for that amp.


charles
     
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ngchaisoon on 6 Jul 2013, 08:08 pm

  Excellent information Sir. My Consonance 211s use V-cap TIO. I thought a bit bright sounding. Went back in damped the leads with compressed wool in lieu of cotton and very pleased with results. No longer bright. I had the caps hot glued. Removed glue and then secured to a nylon base with compressed wool over the cap. To my ears a major improvement. BTW the bases used are Pon-tune footer bases.  We also like 3/8" th. Ebony for the base and under trannies as well. have fun listening and trying.
     As an aside replaced Cardas output coupling caps in the Arion Class "D" amps with Duelund CAST [ copper]. Man they took forever to break in. Stopped changing with over 600 hours on them. Anyone else experience a long break in time with the CAST ? BTW no going back they are the cap for that amp.


charles
     

I am using Duelund Cast DC (copper) 0.33uf at the output of Altmann Attraction DAC. The first 450 to 500 hours is like a roller coaster ride, sometimes good and sometimes bad. Even when good its lacking in emotion in the human voice. After that its more stable and improving with each listening session. Till now I think I had about 650 hours on them and feels that they are still improving.

Ng
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 6 Jul 2013, 08:13 pm
Without owning an oscilloscope, how would you determine what side the outer foil is on?
Is there some type of gizmo to build or purchase that can identify the outer foil side?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speedskater on 7 Jul 2013, 07:36 pm
Do you have a sensitive capacitance meter?
I never tried this but it might work.
Wrap some conductive foil around the cap. Connect one probe to the foil and the other probe to one cap lead. The lead with the higher reading should be the outer plate, I think.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 7 Jul 2013, 08:19 pm
Do you have a sensitive capacitance meter?
I never tried this but it might work.
Wrap some conductive foil around the cap. Connect one probe to the foil and the other probe to one cap lead. The lead with the higher reading should be the outer plate, I think.

That's a very novel idea - I reckon it should work (if you have a sensitive cap meter - which I do, a Peak Atlas LCR40).  So I will have to try it out.

Well done for some out-of-the-box thinking.   :D

EDIT:  After I got home tonight, I did the test.  I wrapped some thin aluminium foil around a 1uF film cap, attached one lead of my Peak meter to this ... and then attached the other lead to one cap lead and then the other.

One lead measured 36.8pF ... the other measured 76.8pF!!  :o  So I would assume the latter is the lead connected to the outermost foil?  :?

And please remind me, where is the outer shield supposed to be connected to:
* on an input coupling cap (shield to the input RCA pin ... or vv?), and
* on an output coupling cap (so, shield to the PCB?).



Regards,

Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Speedskater on 8 Jul 2013, 08:17 pm
Andy, I answered your easy question, so now you ask a hard one.
The caps outer plate should be connected to the terminal that's closer to ground.
So with an output cap, the active device is only a few hundred (or less) Ohms above ground, so that's where you connect the outer plate.
With the input cap, the active device's input is 10k Ohms (or more) above ground, so maybe you might want to connect the outer plate to the input jack.  (I'm not so sure about this)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 8 Jul 2013, 08:29 pm
Andy, I answered your easy question, so now you ask a hard one.
The caps outer plate should be connected to the terminal that's closer to ground.
So with an output cap, the active device is only a few hundred (or less) Ohms above ground, so that's where you connect the outer plate.
With the input cap, the active device's input is 10k Ohms (or more) above ground, so maybe you might want to connect the outer plate to the input jack.  (I'm not so sure about this)

Thanks, ss - now you've jogged my memory, I think you have stated it simply and correctly.  :)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 12 Jul 2013, 12:31 am
Wow, there's a new standard for high end, high priced caps... A pair of coupling caps is a good bit more than I spent on my entire preamp build, and I have RelCap PCU copper foil coupling caps, Clarity TC series power supply caps, Mills resistors, stepped attenuators, etc...  the .47 uF caps are $1k each, who's going to try them out?

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_pio_elec_newS.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Maritan on 5 Aug 2013, 06:32 pm
I've been replacing the electrolytic caps in my 10 year old amp (VTL ST-150) and I've been thinking about replacing/ upgrading the coupling caps while I have the amp open. The upgrade path as suggested by the manufacturer is to go with MIT caps.

Right now, the coupling caps between the output tubes (6550C) are Rel Cap PPMF 0.68uF/ 450V (which already is MIT, I believe?). Due to space constraints (absolute max of 21mm Dia X 45 mm Length), I have narrowed down the choices to the following:

1. Jantzen Z-Superior
2. Jantzen Z-Silver
3. Mundorf MCap
4. Mundorf MCap Evo Aluminum/ Oil
5. Mundorf MCap Supreme

My system is pretty neutral and I can hear changes. When I changed the 6SN7 in my preamp, the changes I could hear were very, very clear. I like the sound as it is, but I always want to know if I'm missing something...  :roll:  :duh: Audio nervosa at its finest. My plan is to change out the capacitors (if you guys feel that it might be worth it), but keep the originals just in case I don't like the sound (after burn in, of course).

Are any of the ones listed above considered an upgrade over the existing Rel Cap PPMF coupling capacitor in the amp? If so, what would your choice be? If you have any other recommendations that fit with the ratings and size limitations, please feel free to recommend them.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 5 Aug 2013, 08:46 pm
If you have any other recommendations that fit with the ratings and size limitations, please feel free to recommend them.

Hi Maritan,

V-cap OIMP's, Auricap, Sonicap, and AudioCap Theta's should fit the same space as MultiCaps or Rel-caps.

You may want to double check the sizes on the Jantzen Z-Superior, Z-Silver and Mundorf Supreme's. I pretty sure those are a lot bigger than Multicaps or Rel-caps.


 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Russtafarian on 5 Aug 2013, 09:47 pm
Quote
I have narrowed down the choices to the following:

1. Jantzen Z-Superior
2. Jantzen Z-Silver

The Z-Superior has been my cap of choice for the last few years.  To my ears it strikes the right balance between articulation and musical flow.  I use them as coupling caps in my Sony ES preamp and Quicksilver monoblocks.  I also have them in my tweeter XO (bypassed with a small Sprague PIO).  It's about 1/4th the price of caps with competing sound quality.  Given that your VTL requires one cap per output tube, the price of any cap you choose adds up pretty quickly.

On the other hand, the more expensive Z-Silver sucks.  Makes everything sound like a buzzsaw.

Another cap to consider is the Clarity MR.  If you're looking to maximize resolution and transparency, it will take you further than the Z-Superior without getting too analytical.  It's also 4X the price of the Z-Sup and 3x the size.  Make sure they'll fit under the hood before pulling the trigger on these.

Also, if you can get hold of a cable cooker and run your new caps for a week before installing them, your amp will get up to sound much quicker and save your vacuum tubes from a lot of break-in hours.

Russ
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 5 Aug 2013, 09:50 pm
So, I am working on a new RIAA phono preamplifier.  It is doing very well, easily outperforming most others we have heard here at rational prices.

It is DC coupled from input to output so I have no coupling capacitors to worry about at all.

However there are two capacitors to ground in passive filter circuits.  One needs to be 0.15uF/50V and the other either 0.015uF/50V or possibly 0.0082uF/50V depending upon the impedance we want for that part of the second passive filter.  We know we have overkill drive current to charge and discharge these parts without stressing the active devices.

The capacitors must be physically small, none microphonic, none inductive, free of thermal drift, and available at tight and consistent tolerances at rational prices.  There seem to be two recommended choices of parts type, either polypropylene or COG ceramic.  Audio Precision seems to suggest NPO/COG ceramics as a superior choice.

Any suggestions or recommendations around here?

Thanks,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Maritan on 5 Aug 2013, 10:41 pm
Hi Maritan,

V-cap OIMP's, Auricap, Sonicap, and AudioCap Theta's should fit the same space as MultiCaps or Rel-caps.

You may want to double check the sizes on the Jantzen Z-Superior, Z-Silver and Mundorf Supreme's. I pretty sure those are a lot bigger than Multicaps or Rel-caps.
WireNut,

The Rel-Cap PPMFs in the amp right now are roughly 15mmX30mm (oval in cross section), but there is enough space to shove a slightly bigger cap in there. The distance between the solder points is 45mm, and they have some room to spare on the sides.

The Jantzen Z-Superior and Z-Silver check in at 16mmX43mm according to Parts Express.

Unfortunately, the V-cap OIMP and AudioCap Thetas are not available in the value that I need. The Auricap is apparently 28mmX30mm, and has to be excluded because of the larger diameter. The Sonicap Gen II is actually within the size range I require at 16mmX30.5mm. Good call. Thanks WireNut. How would you compare the Jantzen to the Sonicap Gen II?

The Z-Superior has been my cap of choice for the last few years.  To my ears it strikes the right balance between articulation and musical flow.  <snip>

On the other hand, the more expensive Z-Silver sucks.  Makes everything sound like a buzzsaw.

Another cap to consider is the Clarity MR.  If you're looking to maximize resolution and transparency, it will take you further than the Z-Superior without getting too analytical.  It's also 4X the price of the Z-Sup and 3x the size.  Make sure they'll fit under the hood before pulling the trigger on these.

Also, if you can get hold of a cable cooker and run your new caps for a week before installing them, your amp will get up to sound much quicker and save your vacuum tubes from a lot of break-in hours.

Russ

Russ,

Thank you for your detailed response. I can rig something up to "cook" the capacitors before I put them in the amp. Thanks for the suggestion. As far as the Clarity MR, while I have heard many positives about it, size-wise I can't shoehorn them in to the amp. Hence the reason for the exclusion from the list. Also, you make a great point about cost adding up quickly. I do need 8 caps, and at roughly $36 per, that is one expensive upgrade.

It seems like my contenders are now the Jantzen Z-Superior vs. the Sonicap Gen II... Any inputs on how these two compare?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 6 Aug 2013, 01:26 am

It seems like my contenders are now the Jantzen Z-Superior vs. the Sonicap Gen II


Hi Maritan,

My bad, I didn't realize your max size was 21x45. I thought that was your current caps size. Seems like you have three choices. Jantzen, Sonicap and Mundorf. All nice caps, and won't make your decision any easier.

In my older LS7 preamp Mundorf SIO out performed Auricaps bypassed with V-cap TFTF. The Mundorf highs and spaciousness were better right off the bat and I wasn't about to wait 400 hours for the TFTF caps to brake in.

I'm sure you've read many folks like Mundorf and Sonicaps and the Jantzens are very popular in loudspeaker crossovers. You're in the same boat I am with my preamp and that's size restriction. Something I've thought about is stacking two smaller caps on top of each other. That might open up some other cap options but your cost will also go up.

I'm currently building a B1 passive preamp and that thing should really give me a good idea how one caps sounds compared to another. I have 5 Sonicaps sitting here waiting for me to get busy. My plan over the next year or so is to compare Sonicaps, Mundorf, Clarity Cap MRs in the B1. Wish I could help you more at this time.

WN
 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 6 Aug 2013, 04:07 am
So, I am working on a new RIAA phono preamplifier.  It is doing very well, easily outperforming most others we have heard here at rational prices.

It is DC coupled from input to output so I have no coupling capacitors to worry about at all.

However there are two capacitors to ground in passive filter circuits.  One needs to be 0.15uF/50V and the other either 0.015uF/50V or possibly 0.0082uF/50V depending upon the impedance we want for that part of the second passive filter.  We know we have overkill drive current to charge and discharge these parts without stressing the active devices.

The capacitors must be physically small, none microphonic, none inductive, free of thermal drift, and available at tight and consistent tolerances at rational prices.  There seem to be two recommended choices of parts type, either polypropylene or COG ceramic.  Audio Precision seems to suggest NPO/COG ceramics as a superior choice.

Any suggestions or recommendations around here?

Thanks,

Frank Van Alstine
AMTRANS AMCH Series: http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_amtrans_amch.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Maritan on 6 Aug 2013, 03:25 pm

I'm currently building a B1 passive preamp and that thing should really give me a good idea how one caps sounds compared to another. I have 5 Sonicaps sitting here waiting for me to get busy. My plan over the next year or so is to compare Sonicaps, Mundorf, Clarity Cap MRs in the B1. Wish I could help you more at this time.

WN

That would be a great comparison and I for one am very interested. Hopefully this thread will stay alive and kicking till then. Anyway, I already picked up a pair of Duelund CAST Cu to go as the output coupling capacitors in my preamp. So, I'm good with the eventual upgrade for my preamp for a long, long time.  :thumb:

Now, as far as the VTL goes, my plan is to put it back together over the next couple days, make sure everything runs ok and then buy the coupling capacitors. As of now, when I cross-reference Humble Hi Fi, Jon L's findings, Russ's and your input and various other experiences, the Jantzen Z-Superior seems universally praised while the Sonicaps and the Jantzen Z-Silver have their occasional detractors. So, for the 0.68uF/ 450V cap, I think the Jantzen is the clear choice. I wish I could fit the Mundorf S(/G)IO in the amp, but there's no way I can stuff them in there. I'm going to check once more and hope against hope, but I'm not holding my breath.

Like I said, I will be keeping the original RelCaps after desoldering them just in case I don't like the sound with the Jantzen for whatever reason.

By the way, I'm curious, how was the bass response of the Mundorf SIO? I have heard that the SIOs might accentuate the treble a little, but there's little mention of their bass response in the reading I've done (or it didn't register in my brain). I'm guessing that's a good thing, but wanted to check.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: face on 6 Aug 2013, 04:20 pm


I'm currently building a B1 passive preamp and that thing should really give me a good idea how one caps sounds compared to another. I have 5 Sonicaps sitting here waiting for me to get busy. My plan over the next year or so is to compare Sonicaps, Mundorf, Clarity Cap MRs in the B1. Wish I could help you more at this time.

WN
Just skip to the MR's, you'll be glad you did. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Russtafarian on 6 Aug 2013, 04:53 pm
Quote
So, for the 0.68uF/ 450V cap, I think the Jantzen is the clear choice.

I think you'll be pleased with the results. 

With the Jantzen's, be careful not to pull on the leads too hard or the end cap will pop off.  They are not fragile, but will come apart if stressed too much.  I learned this the hard way.  I was cleaning the leads with steel wool prior to Caig Pro treatment and pulled the end cap off.  I was able to reseat it and the cap still measured correctly, so no loss on my part.  But it sure freaked me out when it happened!

Russ
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Maritan on 8 Aug 2013, 04:13 pm
That's a great tip. Thank you for the heads up. I would have lost my marbles too if I pulled the ends off accidentally. Yikes.  :o

The next set of coupling caps I need for the VTL (a total of four) are 0.22uF, 400V caps. My choices, again are limited by space (absolute max of 20mmX40mm). These caps are connected to the input stage (one each for a 12AT7 and a 6350 on each side).

Since I need only 4, I have a little more leeway with the budget and I'm considered the following:

1. Rike Audio Capacitors (have to ship from UK, unless someone knows of a source in the US)
2. Mundorf Silver/ Oil
3. Mundorf Silver/ Gold/ Oil
4. Jupiter HT beeswax paper cryo

I want something that pairs well with the Jantzen Z-Superior that I'll be using in the output stages. From Jantzen's website (emphasis added by me):
Quote
Even the finest nuances can be heard.The sound never gets over-edged, really superb naturalness with a somewhat bright top-end.

I don't think pairing either of the Mundorfs will work very well. Both Mundorfs are apparently known for their top end emphasis too, and pairing two caps with similar characteristics could spell trouble in a system that's very revealing. Am I correct in my train of thought? Anybody have any feedback on this?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 8 Aug 2013, 04:37 pm
I've been very happy with these, RelCap PCU copper foil... out of the few high end caps I've tried, I like it better than Mundorf SIO. The .22 400V is 20.8mm diameter though  :o

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_reliablecap_pcu.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Maritan on 8 Aug 2013, 04:50 pm
Hey now! It's actually 20.828 mm!  :lol: I'm glad you didn't suggest the TFT line - they'll easily fit, but at $105 per, that's out of the price range.

Thanks for the feedback. I might be able to stuff it in there, but 20mm was already being extremely generous. I'll add it to the list in my head. Would you be able to expand on what you like about it?

Does it provide good soundstage and depth? My current image depth is a little lacking and that was one of the reasons I was thinking about the Mundorf S/G/iO because they're supposed to provide excellent depth.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 8 Aug 2013, 05:04 pm
Hey now! It's actually 20.828 mm!  :lol: I'm glad you didn't suggest the TFT line - they'll easily fit, but at $105 per, that's out of the price range.

Thanks for the feedback. I might be able to stuff it in there, but 20mm was already being extremely generous. I'll add it to the list in my head. Would you be able to expand on what you like about it?

Does it provide good soundstage and depth? My current image depth is a little lacking and that was one of the reasons I was thinking about the Mundorf S/G/iO because they're supposed to provide excellent depth.

What I noticed most of all is excellent tone and harmonics. Instruments sound very real. I did not test it back to back with the SIO, so cannot give an extremely thorough comparison of those two. I do think it is a significant improvement over the SIO in terms of tone though. I did compare it back to back with a cheap Solen MKP just for kicks and there was a night and day difference, the MKP wasn't even close but it is a very cheap film cap. I also won a pair of Feastrex Urushi caps at RMAF last year and posted my impressions here and on Feastrex's forum at diyaudio. The Urushis are a great deal for the money, very fast, clear and neutral but without the harmonic richness of the PCU copper foil cap. The Urushis are 1/2 the price of the PCUs though, and a great option for the money... better than Mundorf SIO in my system but those two are very close. The PCUs are kind of pricey, but much less than VCaps or Duelund...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 12 Sep 2013, 06:00 pm

I have a new champion cap, Intertechnik Audyn True Copper, at least in my system.

Peace,
Tom E


I forgot about these, thanks for the reminder  :thumb:








 

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 1 Oct 2013, 11:29 pm
Have you guys tried the JB JFX caps yet?  Excellent and super cheap.  You can buy them from Just Radios.com in Canada.  There is some buzz on the Audiogon speaker forum about them (the thread is the "Capacitor log Mundorf silver and oil" thread).  The first mention was April 11th of this year (page 39).  I am now using them as my output cap for my Oppo 105 mods.  I use a WA Quantum dot on it (what, you have not tried these?) and then bypass with modified .33 Wima polyprop.  Pretty sweet sounding.  Several of the guys on the Audiogon thread use the copper cast Duelands and think these things are really good.  They are not marked for outside foil so you will need to test and mark each one.   Chinese caps for everyone!!!!

Bye the way, Jupiter Condenser will have copper foil caps in a month or so.  The latest prototypes (he has been working with copper foil over a year now) are suppose to be better than Dueland cast copper.  These caps will be available in all the same values and voltages as the current caps but they will cost more.......but less than Dueland.  So, we may have a new World's best cap coming.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: randytsuch on 2 Oct 2013, 12:07 am
Have you guys tried the JB JFX caps yet?  Excellent and super cheap.  You can buy them from Just Radios.com in Canada.  There is some buzz on the Audiogon speaker forum about them (the thread is the "Capacitor log Mundorf silver and oil" thread).  The first mention was April 11th of this year (page 39).  I am now using them as my output cap for my Oppo 105 mods.  I use a WA Quantum dot on it (what, you have not tried these?) and then bypass with modified .33 Wima polyprop.  Pretty sweet sounding.  Several of the guys on the Audiogon thread use the copper cast Duelands and think these things are really good.  They are not marked for outside foil so you will need to test and mark each one.   Chinese caps for everyone!!!!

Bye the way, Jupiter Condenser will have copper foil caps in a month or so.  The latest prototypes (he has been working with copper foil over a year now) are suppose to be better than Dueland cast copper.  These caps will be available in all the same values and voltages as the current caps but they will cost more.......but less than Dueland.  So, we may have a new World's best cap coming.

I was just looking at the justradios.com website, those caps are really cheap.  Have to figure out how to hit the $20 min buy.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 2 Oct 2013, 12:44 am
I'm drooling for the chance to buy a copper foil cap at a decent price. Come on Jupiter, we're all counting on you.





Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 2 Oct 2013, 12:54 am
I'm drooling for the chance to buy a copper foil cap at a decent price. Come on Jupiter, we're all counting on you.
I just wonder what the actual cost will be though.  Half of a Dueland? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 2 Oct 2013, 03:57 am
I'm drooling for the chance to buy a copper foil cap at a decent price.

The latest Audio Note coppers are very nice sounding caps. Plenty of detail and finesse, with no fatigue. Very natural sounding and musical capacitors. I think the price is fair too, considering the long term upgrade in sound quality and a possible cure for capacitor acquisition syndrome (CAS?). Their physical size may be a little large though. They do need a little more breathing room than some other caps. They are also heavy, so a tie wrap is a good idea.

I bought some AN caps here a few years ago : http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/copper_foils.html (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/copper_foils.html)

The lead in/out orientation is explained here : http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/paper_in_oils.html (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/paper_in_oils.html)

If you really like your amp/ pre/ or whatever they are going into, they are a nice purchase for the long term. The good stuff doesn't come cheap. Ante up!

 :D
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Oct 2013, 11:39 pm
Took the plunge a couple weeks ago and upgraded the coupling and signal ground  caps in my Jolida JD302CRC  to  Clarity MR (4 .22 uF and 2 .47 uF).
Probably  have 75 hrs on them now and wow,  they sound wonderful.    Very detailed,  very  clear, and very  smooth, quite the improvement  over  the stock caps.    Everything I'm listening to seems more dynamic too.  As others have mentioned, they seem very neutral
Had my doubts about   doing this upgrade due to the cost but  I'm glad I followed through.  Well worth it   :thumb:

-jay
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 9 Nov 2013, 02:11 pm
   Audience Aura "T" is the new Kid on the block IMO. Check them out, neutral, dynamic with body and weight. IMO more neutral than the CAST used in my gear.



charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: fralippo on 27 Nov 2013, 12:30 pm
I need a 1.8uF - very - high quality cap for my horns. I'd like to try those K72 russian teflons. Although I'm not a parallel cap fan the only possible solution is to use 1+0.47+0.33uF with a little bypass. What do you think? Also, did someone try to de-case these bigger teflons? Thanks!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 5 Dec 2013, 08:09 am
Took the plunge a couple weeks ago and upgraded the coupling and signal ground  caps in my Jolida JD302CRC  to  Clarity MR (4 .22 uF and 2 .47 uF).
Probably  have 75 hrs on them now and wow,  they sound wonderful.    Very detailed,  very  clear, and very  smooth, quite the improvement  over  the stock caps.    Everything I'm listening to seems more dynamic too.  As others have mentioned, they seem very neutral
Had my doubts about   doing this upgrade due to the cost but  I'm glad I followed through.  Well worth it   :thumb:

-jay
I have Clarity MR 1uF 600vdc in my Zu Union Cubes, they were purchased with upgrade.

I'm not much of a tweaker but I'm thinking about changing the wiring harness inside with some extra JW Audio Cryonova wire I have here, and maybe trying a different cap. Was looking at Jupiter Flats. Anything over 50vdc will work according to Zu as long as it is 1uF. Any thoughts? Maybe it's pointless to upgrade cap just for tweeter that comes in at 14kHz...and they sound great right now. :scratch:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 5 Dec 2013, 08:29 am
I have Clarity MR 1uF 600vdc in my Zu Union Cubes, they were purchased with upgrade.

I'm not much of a tweaker but I'm thinking about changing the wiring harness inside with some extra JW Audio Cryonova wire I have here, and maybe trying a different cap. Was looking at Jupiter Flats. Anything over 50vdc will work according to Zu as long as it is 1uF. Any thoughts? Maybe it's pointless to upgrade cap just for tweeter that comes in at 14kHz...and they sound great right now. :scratch:

I don't think the Flats will be an upgrade over MR, just a different presentation. I think you have to get into VhAudio/teflon/Deuland territory to improve on the MR. Also Tubestore still has some Ampohm Copper/Tin Foil, etc caps left. I think those would land you somewhere in between in terms of presentation.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 5 Dec 2013, 10:14 am
I don't think the Flats will be an upgrade over MR, just a different presentation. I think you have to get into VhAudio/teflon/Deuland territory to improve on the MR. Also Tubestore still has some Ampohm Copper/Tin Foil, etc caps left. I think those would land you somewhere in between in terms of presentation.

Thanks!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 11 Dec 2013, 11:40 pm
Anybody tried Audyn Plus caps in loudspeaker crossovers or electronics?
Prices are a little lower then Mundorf Supreme's.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91242)




Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 17 Jan 2014, 02:18 pm
I've used the following myself for bypass (.1uF):

- Russian teflons (very nice, open and transparent, but they have some grain and a bit of forwardness to them that becomes apparent in time). Inexpensive.
- Sonicap Gen II - they are smooth but don't quite have the air and transparency of the teflons. Inexpensive
- Relcap RT's - also transparent but more forward sounding than I prefer
- V-Cap teflons - very nice and open and beautify, but terribly expensive
- Dueland Alexandria's - these are the nicest bypass cap's I have heard. They do it all. Unfortunately Partscoinnexion is out of stock and there is no other distributor (yet).
- Sonicap Platinums - I have these as coupling caps in my preamp. They don't need a bypass. More expensive than I want for an added bypass cap.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: avahifi on 18 Jan 2014, 03:47 pm
Why are no engineering specifications provided for most of these parts?

Here is an example of an audio device with excellent specifications that suggests it is worth investigating.  Or do any of these exotic capacitors guarantee a distortion of no more then 0.00003 percent?

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49600.pdf

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: banpuku on 17 Feb 2014, 01:41 pm
I decided to upgrade the original components of a vintage Lafayette KT-550. Over a period of about 200+ hours break-in time, I logged values (subjective and numeric) as the sonics changed.  Notably, I replaced all 8 of the tube coupling caps with 0.47uF Rike Audio caps.  These caps have a very flat frequency response.  Nothing stands out.  The Rike's are very transparent and give a wide and deep soundstage.  The noise floor is extremely low with these caps.  And the best of all, the Rike's have no harshness or edginess.  Very natural.  After years of listening to sub-standard caps, I am really starting to appreciate the sonic value of a good hi-end cap.

More about my experience with the Rike Audio cap's can be found on my webpage where I detail log the break-in time and sonic changes.  See here:  http://banpuku.squarespace.com/blog/
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: kyrill on 17 Feb 2014, 01:52 pm
nice post beautiful looking amp
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 18 Feb 2014, 01:34 pm
Anybody hear anything recently on the new Jupiter's that are supposed to compete with Dueland's? Wondering when they will begin to sell, and who/where they can be purchased?

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 18 Feb 2014, 07:38 pm
I talked to Chris at Jupiter about 10 days ago.  He told me that the 600V caps would be ready in two weeks.  No one ever makes their deadlines....well almost no one.  So, in another week I am going to call him and see what is up.  He will have values from .001 to 1uf at 600V....round case.  Prices have not been set but I would say at LEAST 1.5 times his aluminum caps.  Later this year he will make the 100V speaker ones that will be in the flat stacked cases.  So, we are getting seriously close to launch.  I don't know if he will be sending the first batch to Parts Connexion or what.  Hang in there, I will inform everyone as soon as I know something.  So far, every person I have either talked to or heard about has felt these are better than their Duelands.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: siriusg on 25 Mar 2014, 12:45 pm
Hi everybody,
I am planning to upgrade the output capacitors for my pream. Recently, my pream runs with 2 Clarity ESA 4.7uf and 2 Mundorf Supreme 0.1uf as output capacitors. Would anyone please suggest me any capacitors that give most musicality, those that keep me listening to music instead of judging or analysing about treble, bass or something like that. I hope you would understand me, and I am also sorry for my non-perfect English. Many thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Siriusg
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Maritan on 17 Apr 2014, 07:59 pm
Disclaimer 1: The manufacturer provided me free samples of the 0.22uF Rike Capacitors that the following review is about.

Disclaimer 2: This is what I felt in my system, with my music preferences, with my aural tastes. YMMV.

A while ago, I decided to give my VTL ST-150 an overhaul to ensure good functionality. I replaced all the coupling caps and I started with the 0.68uF caps between the output tubes. That definitely gave me an improvement in most areas, but made the system just a touch bright. Once they settled in, though .

After I let them settle in a bit, I decided to tackle the 0.22uF coupling caps in the input circuitry of the amp. I contacted Rike to ask them for the contact information to dealer in the US. They were very helpful since there wasn't a dealer at the time, and were very prompt and kind in sending me free samples to try. It had been a long time since they shipped them to me, but it took me a while to get them into the amp. It's been a while since they've been running in the amp and longer still for me to find time to sit down and write this, but they're excellent capacitors.

I do not have the vast array of experience that some other members have here, but I'm comparing it to what I heard with the amp I got.

Short version: This brought back a degree of realism to music playback that I didn't think possible. It transported me back to a concert that I'd just been to a few days back. It made me feel the same exhilaration that I felt when I was listening to live music.

Longish version: Almost every rock concert I go to, I take ear plugs with me. This is usually because the sound is so insanely amplified and the sound so bright (Ozzy especially comes to mind), I have to put ear plugs in to be able to tolerate a whole concert. However, this particular Steven Wilson concert that I went to in LA was so well done, that I didn't need earplugs! They had the sound just right and I very much enjoyed the concert. As many of us do, I craved that same feeling of excitement listening to live music when listening at home. Things sounded good, but I wanted better. With the Rike in, I get that feeling of being back at a live concert. These capacitors don't highlight any part of the spectrum. They simply let the music flow very naturally. The bass is very textured and natural (and this was the part that got to me!). I could feel it in my chest and feet! The mid-range and highs flow so naturally and sound exactly like what I heard at the concert. No particular frequency band "shouting" at me and grabbing my attention. Dynamics are jump in your seat good. Separation of instruments is really good, and soundstage is excellent too if the recording allows it. If you can't tell, I really, really like these caps. While capacitors alone don't make the system, I think these caps allowed my system to really shine. The Rikes allow the music to get very, very close to the real deal.

Even my wife that doesn't get my craziness came by and asked what I'd done - the music sounds so much more, natural, live etc.

Rest of my system: Magnepan 1.7, deHavilland Ultraverve 3, Decware ZP3 phono, Kenwood KD-770 with Clearaudio cart
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 2 May 2014, 02:15 am
Anybody hear anything recently on the new Jupiter's that are supposed to compete with Dueland's? Wondering when they will begin to sell, and who/where they can be purchased?

My review on Jupiter Copper Foil capacitor is out, and the main comparison was the Duelund CAST PIO  :green:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0514/jupiter_copper_foil_paper_wax_capacitor.htm
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 2 May 2014, 08:35 pm
Thanks Jon.....great review.  What value did you test and where did you use it? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 2 May 2014, 11:38 pm
Thanks Jon.....great review.  What value did you test and where did you use it?

I tested 0.22 uF 600V as coupling caps in tube amp.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MarkR7 on 3 May 2014, 12:12 am
Awesome Jon...

How long of a break in period did you notice for the Jupiter's? I just put these into my Almarro A318b, and noticed an immediate improvement aross the board compared to the stock caps, and that's only a few hours in!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 3 May 2014, 03:01 pm
Awesome Jon...

How long of a break in period did you notice for the Jupiter's? I just put these into my Almarro A318b, and noticed an immediate improvement aross the board compared to the stock caps, and that's only a few hours in!

These days, I just let the caps cook for at least a week on my break-in contraption before installing.

I always loved how the Almarro A318B sounds, and I believe it uses those grey proprietary polyester caps in coupling, which actually sounds pretty good for a polyester cap, but I am sure the Jupiter Copper is a large upgrade  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: WireNut on 3 May 2014, 10:03 pm
Are these available anymore ?
I think Parts Connexion use to carry them but are no longer on their site.
Sonicraft doesn't carry them.
No longer listed on Audience's website either  :(


Audience Aura-T Teflon Capacitor

(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6562/img6231jh9.jpg)


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Captainhemo on 4 May 2014, 06:21 pm
Ooops, misread  WireNuts post,
deleted
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MarkR7 on 4 May 2014, 08:29 pm
@Jon, I agree with you! The Almarro A318b is a wonderful sounding amp as is. I also agree with the reviews about how musical it is, albeit at the cost of some image detail and precision. Some say it is bright?? Not a chance! I will say that te stock input and driver Russian tubes are not that great.

My goal is to keep the best qualities of the amp, while improving its transparency and detail. I am using the Jupiter Copper Foils as the way to get there (replacing the gray stock .47uF coupling caps as you mentioned, as well as a pair of brown .22uF coupling caps after the driver tube), but I also converted it to a straight away amp by bypassing the input selector, the Alps pot, and a DC blocking cap, all in the signal path.



These days, I just let the caps cook for at least a week on my break-in contraption before installing.

I always loved how the Almarro A318B sounds, and I believe it uses those grey proprietary polyester caps in coupling, which actually sounds pretty good for a polyester cap, but I am sure the Jupiter Copper is a large upgrade  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: HAITIMAN on 4 May 2014, 08:33 pm
How about resistors, guys? I would be interested in which resistors give the most open and transparent sound without adding any graininess? Is there a thread for a resistor comparo?
And then we should move on to switches. Which switch provides provides the widest soundstage?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MarkR7 on 4 May 2014, 08:40 pm
Should probably start a new thread for resistors, and keep this a capacitor thread....

With that being said, I am using NOS Shinkoh tantalum resistors in the signal path for my Almarro upgrade.


How about resistors, guys? I would be interested in which resistors give the most open and transparent sound without adding any graininess? Is there a thread for a resistor comparo?
And then we should move on to switches. Which switch provides provides the widest soundstage?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: HAITIMAN on 4 May 2014, 08:47 pm
Thanks.

And go 'Hawks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MarkR7 on 4 May 2014, 08:52 pm
Haha! Yes, go Hawks!!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 5 May 2014, 12:18 am
How about resistors, guys? I would be interested in which resistors give the most open and transparent sound without adding any graininess?

Resistors are often much harder to "roll" and compare, but if you are not looking for any extra flavors, warmth, etc, the Vishay "Naked" Z-Foil resistor is extremely transparent without grain.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_vishay_var.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: bardamu on 30 May 2014, 12:30 pm
Hello,
I am the proud owner of a virtue sensation amp which has a 100nf cap between pre- and power amp. Already did replace the stock cap with a polysterene one. Just a high grade cap bought in a surplus shop a decade ago. Now after one year i wanna try the russian K40-Y9. I did read somewhere that it could be an advantage to replace the wires because they are steel. Because there is a plastic cover on the cap i was thinking maybe just mount them pointing up into the air.
I know the inner foil is on the side where the K is on the inscription so that side should be on the power amp side if i am right. Would it be better to keep the connection short on the inner or the outer foil side? I think i have enough space on the circuit board to choose where i have the shortest wire.
Sincere greetings, Edward
p.s also have the 200 volts teflon but they might be to big. Have the 600 volts too BUT i am almost sure they are to big. Also dont know if the teflon would be better.
I wanna buy another sensation for my bigger set here it will be used with a 12 db filter at 600 hertz to be used just for the lower frequencies. Maybe the teflon could be better there. I guess just have to try.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: sfox7076 on 24 Jul 2014, 06:27 pm
I am having mono tube amps built.  Each mono block takes 5 0.22 caps.  So I am trying to decide on using the tried and true Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver Gold and the new Jupiter Copper Foils.  Any help on this?  What about heat?

Shawn
Title: My Capacitor comparisons: extensive testing by
Post by: rb7399 on 18 Nov 2014, 04:57 pm
Here is another site who did extensive testing on more capacitors from Humble Home made Hifi.


http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 11 Jan 2015, 12:35 am
The Mundorf Mcap, MKP is a better budget champ than anything else in the thread thus far. It was reviewed here (http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html) as a 10. I can confirm, for $5 a pop it makes things like the Wima's look shameful.

Website has incorrect picture, however.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 12 Jan 2015, 12:40 am
The Mundorf Mcap, MKP is a better budget champ than anything else in the thread thus far. It was reviewed here (http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html) as a 10. I can confirm, for $5 a pop it makes things like the Wima's look shameful.

Website has incorrect picture, however.

I see the Mundorf Supreme getting a 10. Not budget. The standard MKP got a "7." Yes, budget.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 12 Jan 2015, 01:24 am
Oh, maybe I got them mixed up. I can't find the Supreme anywhere, as MKP however.

Sounds is still better than th Wima that got an 8.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: borism on 13 Jan 2015, 03:53 pm
I have a question regarding bypassing a 0.1 MicroF film coupling cap with a 2200 pF Russian teflon. Does the bypass cap have to be of the same voltage rating (i.e. 600) or can it be a lesser 200 V teflon (such as the TF-1 frequently seen on the bay)?
Red this forum and somehow must have missed this information.
Thanks!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: budngreg on 18 Feb 2015, 01:02 pm
Thanks John for such an outstanding effort and the continued up dates.
Could you help here with a suggestion.

Question:  Mundorf silver gold oil, silver oil, Jupiter copper foil in wax (new last year).   

Of these caps which might you select to be the 12ax7 phase splitter caps feeding the driver tubes (also 12ax7) and onto the caps that feed six Sylvania or RCA 6L6GC grids (triode/no feedback)?  I have often heard that it is not the best idea to have back to back same kind/type ( for example all SGO types vs mix).

System is Soundlab Dynastat, Shanling CD, no lps, straight wire/no preamp to Tri Modified Mesa Baron amp, OFCCC ( single crystal copper) interconnects and cables.  I know you like detail and resolution and this has it in spades.  Currently it has all Audyn copper foil caps but they keep failing and need to go.  The sound could use some 'liquidy' which the Mundorfs should introduce.  Right now every recording flaw is under a microscope.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 18 Feb 2015, 04:48 pm
Thanks John for such an outstanding effort and the continued up dates.
Could you help here with a suggestion.

Question:  Mundorf silver gold oil, silver oil, Jupiter copper foil in wax (new last year).   

Of these caps which might you select to be the 12ax7 phase splitter caps feeding the driver tubes (also 12ax7) and onto the caps that feed six Sylvania or RCA 6L6GC grids (triode/no feedback)?  I have often heard that it is not the best idea to have back to back same kind/type ( for example all SGO types vs mix).

System is Soundlab Dynastat, Shanling CD, no lps, straight wire/no preamp to Tri Modified Mesa Baron amp, OFCCC ( single crystal copper) interconnects and cables.  I know you like detail and resolution and this has it in spades.  Currently it has all Audyn copper foil caps but they keep failing and need to go.  The sound could use some 'liquidy' which the Mundorfs should introduce.  Right now every recording flaw is under a microscope.

IMO, Jupiter >>> Mundorf, not even close really. I'd look to your tubes for achieving the balance you are looking for. Passive parts that sound smooth or liquid usually smear a lot of detail.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 18 Feb 2015, 04:55 pm
  I'm with Dave about the Mundorf. Ya want rich Jensen PIO, Sprauge PIO. I'm a big fan of Duelund CAST copper however price can be an issue. Next best and maybe really close are the Jupiter. Have fun trying and break them in BEFORE you install them. They take many hours for the dielectric to form.


charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mikeeastman on 18 Feb 2015, 06:26 pm
I,m going to upgrade the caps in my X-overs and was thinking of the Jupiter caps and heard about the long break in time, is there a way to break them in before I install them?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 18 Feb 2015, 07:25 pm
Sure, build a burn in rig with some male and female RCA's and some wire. Just link the caps together in series on the + leg and use the rig as an interconnect from your CD player to your preamp. Then let it burn for a week. The amp doesn't have to be on.

If that is confusing just think of constructing an interconnect, but you are slipping the caps in the middle on the + leg in series.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mikeeastman on 18 Feb 2015, 07:35 pm
Thanks BobM.  :thumb: Could I do the something with the coils for the X-over? Could I make up the whole X-over and burn it in the same way?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Quiet Earth on 18 Feb 2015, 08:45 pm
Don't do that Mike. The line out signal coming out of your CD player isn't nearly the same as the power coming out of your power amplifier. So you are wasting your time burning them in that way. Just build /upgrade your crossover and start using your speakers.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: budngreg on 20 Feb 2015, 05:57 pm
Don't do that Mike. The line out signal coming out of your CD player isn't nearly the same as the power coming out of your power amplifier. So you are wasting your time burning them in that way. Just build /upgrade your crossover and start using your speakers.

100% agree...a cd player is like a tickle and your amp is like a slap.  You are trying to get the guts to settle in and a tickle won't do it.  Peak power can speed it up.  Use forceps on the leads to keep heat away from the insides, I find it cuts the time down on all components settling in anywhere including amps. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 21 Feb 2015, 09:48 pm
*
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 30 Mar 2015, 10:29 am
Raven Audio caps. I know nothing about them. But here it is:

http://www.ravenaudio.com/Raven-Audio-Capacitors_p_20.html

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: TheRavenator on 1 Apr 2015, 02:28 am
Let me know if you want to try a pair of our RavenCaps.  I have about 1,000 of the .47 and .68uF value.  If you want to try them I will send you a pair.  Then you can let everyone know what you think.  I think you might be surprised.

Sincerely,
Dave Thomson
Raven Audio
dave@ravenaudio.com
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 1 Apr 2015, 02:41 am
Thanks for the offer. You might want to also contact Tony Gee at Humblehomemadehifi as he has reviewed a plethora of caps.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Regards,
Anand
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 4 Jun 2015, 10:22 am
Anyone tried different caps in  their Zu speakers? I have Clarity MR now. My Zu use ASD1001 so maybe this is a moot point, or maybe it matters more than ever?

I'm trying to order some Jupiter Copper in Foil caps for my Zu Union Cubes. Parts Connexion has a good special right now, but I think the leads will be too short, and I don't have the resources where I live to modify them properly.

Sean at Zu suggested 1uF 100v, but then I saw some comments on DAR blog (at bottom) about using smaller values:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/11/removing-the-grain-part-2-zu-soul-mkii-and-claritycap-mr/


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 7 Jun 2015, 05:43 am
I don't think the Flats will be an upgrade over MR, just a different presentation. I think you have to get into VhAudio/teflon/Deuland territory to improve on the MR. Also Tubestore still has some Ampohm Copper/Tin Foil, etc caps left. I think those would land you somewhere in between in terms of presentation.

The current plan is two swap out the Clarity MR for some 600v .47uF copper in foil Jupiter caps.

Zu advised I can find some possible added benefit with another .1uF bypass cap in parallel but I'm probably not going to do that right now.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Rocket on 7 Jun 2015, 06:49 am
Hi,

Good luck with swapping your capacitors.  Hope you hear an improvement.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 7 Jun 2015, 01:35 pm
The current plan is two swap out the Clarity MR for some 600v .47uF copper in foil Jupiter caps.

Zu advised I can find some possible added benefit with another .1uF bypass cap in parallel but I'm probably not going to do that right now.

Doc how is the captain been treating you?  :lol:

 I'm curious as to what the value and purpose of this cap is now in the ZU crossover that you plan to swap out? Also how many capacitors are employed in the ZU crossover design? Do you have a schematic for the crossover?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 7 Jun 2015, 01:47 pm
Let us know how it works out doctorcilantro.

I have Clarity MR in my crossover and at the time was unaware of the Jupiter copper foil caps when I ordered my speakers. I doubt I will change what I have now but I'm always curious as to what the difference would have been with the Jupiters. Good luck!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 7 Jun 2015, 07:13 pm
Let us know how it works out doctorcilantro.

I have Clarity MR in my crossover and at the time was unaware of the Jupiter copper foil caps when I ordered my speakers. I doubt I will change what I have now but I'm always curious as to what the difference would have been with the Jupiters. Good luck!

Given that they're in your speakers the Clarity MR will probably be more comparable than if it were a decision at line level were the difference might be more night/day.



PHE426 , underrated in other reviews. I can concur it's a fantastic capacitor. It lacks some detail but vinyl tube lovers should consider it. It's accurate in timing, and gives nice tonal, bold, sound so it might compliment a thin system well.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 8 Jun 2015, 04:49 am
Doc how is the captain been treating you?  :lol:

I'm curious as to what the value and purpose of this cap is now in the ZU crossover that you plan to swap out? Also how many capacitors are employed in the ZU crossover design? Do you have a schematic for the crossover?

It's a passive crossover using a single cap. I'm going to secure the Jupiter with adhesive and maybe a zip tie to the driver.

(http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/zu_soul_clarity_caps_upgrade_5.png)

Good to hear from you, I think the ship has sailed for the Captain.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 8 Jun 2015, 01:52 pm
It's a passive crossover using a single cap. I'm going to secure the Jupiter with adhesive and maybe a zip tie to the driver.

(http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/zu_soul_clarity_caps_upgrade_5.png)

Good to hear from you, I think the ship has sailed for the Captain.

Doc I can't tell where that cap connects at both ends is it running right from the positive and negative of the driver? Or does it go down on one side to the terminal strip? Also what was the original stock value of the cap?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 8 Jun 2015, 02:19 pm
Doc I can't tell where that cap connects at both ends is it running right from the positive and negative of the driver? Or does it go down on one side to the terminal strip? Also what was the original stock value of the cap?

It is 1uF and I don't have them open yet so I am not sure myself!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 8 Jun 2015, 02:50 pm
well I can tell you that I'm 99% sure that value is crucial and if your change the value you will screw the frequency crossover point or response of the driver by changing it. Which in turn will skew your comparison. I'd be asking ZU about it. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 8 Jun 2015, 07:04 pm
Sorry I meant the original value is 1uF and they advised I could go down to .47, and a few others suggested going lower too. So I have the .47 coming soon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 8 Jun 2015, 08:59 pm
well I'd be asking them what the sonic effect is by cutting the value of that cap in half.....or if it was me I'd be wondering is the sound difference the quality of the cap or the 50% reduction in value... cap values are always chosen for a electronic/frequency response reason.....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: S Clark on 8 Jun 2015, 09:00 pm
well I can tell you that I'm 99% sure that value is crucial and if your change the value you will screw the frequency crossover point or response of the driver by changing it. Which in turn will skew your comparison. I'd be asking ZU about it.
It's really hard to tell with Zu.  These guys don't use much in the way of filter components anyway, letting their drivers play further into their range than most manufacturers. Not my cup of tea.  A friend auditioned a pair along with a pair of Focals.  Not really close.  The Focal's stayed.  As a rule, changing the value of a cap clearly changes the frequency of the 6 dB roll off.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: doctorcilantro on 10 Jun 2015, 04:53 am
Craig - you were right. I double checked and some SERIOUS miscommunication had gone on.  :duh:

So, if anyone has a need for (2) Jupiter 600v .47uF, PM me. sigh.

If I was going to run something in parallel to the 1uF, I'd start with a 100v .1uF, but at this point just going to try 1uF replacing the ClarityMR.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NOS Valves on 10 Jun 2015, 01:19 pm
you could order another pair of .47uF and run them in parallel with another .047uF of your choosing... that would equal darn close to 1uf, but ideally a single 1uF would be better for a true comparison to the clarity cap.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: NiToNi on 16 Aug 2015, 07:54 pm
Hi Jon,

As you may be aware, the RAAL 70-20XR tweeter only needs a cap in series (4.7, 6.8 or 10uF depending on sensitivity) to form an LR4 HP filter at 1.8kHz.

Give the relevant pass band, which cap would you recommend for ultimate treble reproduction?

Thanks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 16 Aug 2015, 08:09 pm
I've just started trying the MKP1837 from Vishay. It's a wonderful bypass capacitor. I'm sure for around 100x the price they can easily be beaten, but they're awfully good.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 27 Nov 2015, 11:24 pm
I know this is an old thread but I need some experienced advice on caps for a Pass B1 preamp.

I am building this for my son to go with a Parasound A21 amp.  He likes a slightly more warm and colored sound with good air, transparency, detail and bass. 

The preamp uses 1 1uF 400V and 1 10uF 400V per channel.  I want to keep cost's reasonable and I am going to use a Mundorf MCap Supreme (1uF 600v) capacitor.  I was thinking about pairing the Mundorf with either a 10uF 630V Obliggato Gold or a  10uF/630V Clarity ESA.  Are these good pairings?

Any recommendations are welcome.

For resistors, I am using Riken Carbon in the output stage and Tx2575 for the input.  The other resistors are Audio Note Tantalum's.


Thanks!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: paul79 on 28 Nov 2015, 01:14 am
I'd use a Jupiter Copper for the 1uf. The Clarity would work well for the 10uf, but I'd try to stretch and use the Jupiter Copper's throughout.

You might check with Pass about the value of the 10uf and how critical it is. You may be able to go down to even a 4.7uf here. I don't know enough about the pre to tell you.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 28 Nov 2015, 01:45 am
I would love to use Jupiter caps but the cost is over what I have budgeted for the build.   I wanted to use AmpOhm's Aluminum PIO but you can't find them in the value's that I need.

My budget for caps is about $100.  If I was building this for myself I might spring for Jupiter's or Mundorf PIO Silver/Gold.
My preamp is a VK-51se.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: zeroalbedo on 29 Nov 2015, 05:42 pm
I'm absolutely agree with paul79. But considering your budget limit and sound preference of your son, might I recommend in place of 1 uF the very last pair of 1uF AmpOhm's Copper PIO from http://www.partsconnexion.com/buyback.html. Now they have a very special 60% off for these caps.

These Copper AmpOhm caps are better, more musical and warmer a bit then the AmpOhm's Aluminum PIO.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 29 Nov 2015, 07:01 pm
I'm absolutely agree with paul79. But considering your budget limit and sound preference of your son, might I recommend in place of 1 uF the very last pair of 1uF AmpOhm's Copper PIO from http://www.partsconnexion.com/buyback.html. Now they have a very special 60% off for these caps.

These Copper AmpOhm caps are better, more musical and warmer a bit then the AmpOhm's Aluminum PIO.

Thanks for the info.  Do they have good bass?  I would probably pair it with the Obbligato's or Clarity ESA's.  I might stretch the budget for the Mundorf Supreme 10uF. 

I will probably purchase the ampohms on Monday when PC is open for business.

Thanks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: zeroalbedo on 29 Nov 2015, 10:01 pm
Yes, comparing to the Aluminium the Copper's bass is a tad deeper, maybe moore meety, mature and the point of gravity of its sound is closer to the low-mid then to the mid-mid.

The sound of this cap is natural, full of resolution and ambient information too. And it has a copper "orange" aura or light around of music. Of course this cap is not the very best today and not a wonder-worker, but for this price it has an ability of special emotion transmissivity of sound already. Just give them a bit moore time to burn-in, approximately 50 hours, please.

The another slow-disappearing last mohawk of nice audiophile products :(

BTW the Jupiter Copper is definitely better ;) Believe us.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 29 Nov 2015, 10:30 pm
Thanks!  If the AmpOhm's are still available I will buy them.  If the build sounds good I may build a second one (or the Pass Pearl 2 Phono Pre) with Jupiter caps for myself.  I am already over budget with adding a remote control volume pot and boutique resistors.

Any advice on pairing the AP's with the 10uF 630V Clarity ESA's or Obbligato Gold's?  The Obliggato's seem to have more air, detail and transparency than the ESA's but the bass is supposed to be a little thin from the reviews I have read.  Both are around $30 each.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 30 Nov 2015, 05:04 am
Any thoughts on Rike S-Caps Aluminum PIO?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 30 Nov 2015, 03:41 pm
Thanks!  If the AmpOhm's are still available I will buy them.  If the build sounds good I may build a second one (or the Pass Pearl 2 Phono Pre) with Jupiter caps for myself.  I am already over budget with adding a remote control volume pot and boutique resistors.

Any advice on pairing the AP's with the 10uF 630V Clarity ESA's or Obbligato Gold's?  The Obliggato's seem to have more air, detail and transparency than the ESA's but the bass is supposed to be a little thin from the reviews I have read.  Both are around $30 each.

Ampohms have been gone for a long time now, so if you find them they are leftovers or used. But here's a comparison that you might find interesting.

My phono stage (Hagerman Trumpet) has a polarity switch. I have Ampohm 1.0's on one polarity setting, and the new Jupiter coppers 1.0 on the other. Switching between these has a very slight sonic difference, but really nothing you would notice unless you have this direct switchable comparison.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: borism on 30 Nov 2015, 04:06 pm
The tubestore has still some AmpOhm 1 uf copper/PIO capacitors available. They are very good. I tried them as interstage caps in my Bottlehead 2A3 amplifier.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 30 Nov 2015, 04:48 pm
Ampohms have been gone for a long time now, so if you find them they are leftovers or used. But here's a comparison that you might find interesting.

My phono stage (Hagerman Trumpet) has a polarity switch. I have Ampohm 1.0's on one polarity setting, and the new Jupiter coppers 1.0 on the other. Switching between these has a very slight sonic difference, but really nothing you would notice unless you have this direct switchable comparison.


  Bob not comparing apples to apples. The Polarity switch changes polarity so a direct comparison is frankly impossible. One in phase one not.


charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jonbee on 30 Nov 2015, 06:35 pm
Just wanted to share my recent experiences with .1 mfd Audyn true copper caps as bypass caps in speaker crossovers. In recent the years I've used Sonicap Gen 1, Gen 2 and Platinum, Mundorf supreme and silver/oil caps as bypass caps. Sometimes the result was beneficial, sometimes not.
I've recently bypassed the ClarityCap ESA tweeter caps in my LaHave Melas with .1 mfd Audyn True Copper caps  and the results were wonderful. The tweeter is a very wide range 50mm driver from 2 khz. and up, a new version of the Jordan modules. Very fast and detailed, but they lacked ultimate finesse on top. Bypassing the ESAs fixed that. Now the top end is as open and well behaved as any I've used. Cleaner, less hash, more 3-d. 
I then bypassed the series midrange and tweeter caps in my Joseph RM33LE with the True Coppers. These use a very fancy crossover, infinite slope AND high order conventional AND series, all in one speaker! The existing film caps are mediocre generic quality. I wasn't sure how the bypass would work out with all this, but it has a similar effect, but perhaps not as big an improvement as in the Melas.
At $18 ea. from parts express they are a steal. Best bypass results I've had. No downside in either speaker.
YMMV, of course.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 30 Nov 2015, 10:14 pm
Thanks for every one's help.   I was going to buy a pair of AmpOhm Copper PIO but the pair the Parts Connexion has is used and they can't tell me how old they are.  I ended up with Mundorf MCap Supreme's for the 1uF and Clarity ESA's for the 10uF.  If I don't like the sound I will try bypassing or roll other caps.

Any one know anything about Takman Rey Metal film and Rex Carbon resistors?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wroman214 on 24 Jan 2016, 04:49 pm
  Hello to all,  I have followed this thread along with another cap test and chose AudioCap Theta in the coupling position of DIY Tubelab SE built for 45 tubes. I have two questions, see below
 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135826)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135832)


I understand Jon does not like the 5842 tube,  the TSE uses the 5842 with a CCS and voltage is adjustable with a pot in this design. I have gone to extremes to have a cool running amp and power transformer.  Even though I was advised against using the FT-1 200v coupling caps they work and since I have a thermistor  in the H.V. supply the voltage never goes above the 150 volts that I have the 5842 running at.


1) Should I be concerned running the FT-1's at 150v given that they are 200v caps.  Startup voltage swing is not a problem, see above.

When I first installed the non burned in FT-1's for a couple of days I was very very happy.  None of the rich and full bottom end of the Theta's was gone but the top end opened up and I noticed three major differences. Bass definition and timing was improved.  Spacial images were rock solid steady and any effects in the recording process were immediately indefinable. There was a slight grain heard but not bad in any way. I have started running the amp full time the last few days and I imagine 150-170 hours have passed.
The grain is gone.  The lowest bass impact and fullness has almost returned.  If I had not heard the difference I might well say that this is perfect.  Not really complaining about the sound just wishing for more low end weight.  I want my cake and eat it too kinda thing.

 
2) My AudioCap Theta's are .47 uF and the FT-1's are .022uF 200V,  Should I buy some lower value FT-1's 2200pF 600v caps.  Will a lower value FT-1's allow more of the Theata's through?      Or do I just need to do more burn in?   Just noticed some 5600 pf 600v on FleaBay.

Thanks for any input.
Walt
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wroman214 on 24 Jan 2016, 05:03 pm
 I thought of one other question.  I installed the FT-1s below the circuit board and soldered to the exposed leads oth the Theta's.  I taped the body of the FT-1's with paper tape to avoid accidental arcing across other leads from below.  It is possible I do not have the FT-1's mounted in the same direction (after taped can read).   I say this because during the ugly part of the brake in the sound almost seemed phasey if you know what I mean.  I am going to check this but before I do I thought those of you that have an oscilloscope or cap tester and used to using the FT-1's you may give a preferred orientation based on the writing on the cap.
Thanks
Title: Re: Has anyone had any experience with Duelund RS caps in electronics? nt
Post by: Manolo on 18 Apr 2016, 10:15 pm
nt
Title: Re: Has anyone had any experience with Duelund RS caps in electronics? nt
Post by: andyr on 18 Apr 2016, 10:33 pm
nt

I used 1uF as output coupling caps in the phono stage I make (Muse) ... and a friend uses them as the output coupling cap in his tube phono stage (GoldenAgeAudio).  They sound excellent!   :thumb:


Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 26 Apr 2016, 04:04 am
So after years of hearing about them I finally ordered some Obbligato Premium Gold. I have speakers that require 50uf in series to the tweeter and figured it was time to upgrade from the inexpensive Bennics (which aren't that bad for cheap polys). The only 'audiophile' caps that I could get near such a high value without breaking the bank were the Obbligatos. Only a few hours in and they are a big thumbs up. Absolute bargain for the price. Once again humblehomemadehifi's Tony Gee nailed their sonics with his review: analogue with clarity. They are on the warm side, spacious, and natural presentation. They are like a refined ClarityCap ESA so far - or what you think the MR would sound like if they were more like the ESA. So far I would put them on the level of the Jantzen Superior - Z in terms of pedigree. And I got these 47uf  Obbligatos at the price of a Jantzen Superior 6.8uf! However, they've cleverly priced their lower values only a little less than equivalent Jantzen, etc.

But at higher values, these Obbligatos are for the money, the best caps I've heard.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 26 Apr 2016, 04:12 am
I used Obbligator Golds before, for the same reason. They were an obvious upgrade!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 13 May 2016, 03:25 pm
I have the Audiocap Theta in my First Watt Burning Amp 3 right now, is it worth it to change to a ClarityCap MR? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 13 May 2016, 03:52 pm
I have the Audiocap Theta in my First Watt Burning Amp 3 right now, is it worth it to change to a ClarityCap MR?

Tony gee rates theta much lower than the mr. I love the mr. Like sonicap but muuuch better.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 13 May 2016, 04:37 pm
Tony gee rates theta much lower than the mr. I love the mr. Like sonicap but muuuch better.

Agreed - I went from Sonicaps in my Serenity Acoustic Super 7's to the ClarityCap MRs.  Now that the MR's have broken in, it's true - tonally similar to the Sonicaps, but much more detail and soundstage info, and smoooooooth. 

But JonL was so positive about the AudioCap Theta in his review, I went with that in my amp.  Part of the problem is the amp uses 10uF for the cap size and some of these higher end caps just aren't made in that size.  Hence the question.....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 16 May 2016, 07:20 pm
OK, I broke down and ordered the ClarityCap MR 10uF for the amp.  It would have just eaten away at me if I'd just stuck with the Audiocap Theta.  JonL recommends bypassing the Theta with Teflon, I'll give that a try too.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 16 May 2016, 09:01 pm
OK, I broke down and ordered the ClarityCap MR 10uF for the amp.  It would have just eaten away at me if I'd just stuck with the Audiocap Theta.  JonL recommends bypassing the Theta with Teflon, I'll give that a try too.

Let us know how it goes...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 22 May 2016, 09:59 pm
Pulled the Audiocap Thetas from my BA3 and dropped in the Claritycap MR today.  Immediately there was better transparency and detail.  The Thetas are just a dull sounding cap, IMO.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 22 May 2016, 10:28 pm
Pulled the Audiocap Thetas from my BA3 and dropped in the Claritycap MR today.  Immediately there was better transparency and detail.  The Thetas are just a dull sounding cap, IMO.

I thought the same thing about the Dayton film & foil caps. Wonder if Audiocap makes those too...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Nick77 on 23 May 2016, 12:03 am
Pulled the Audiocap Thetas from my BA3 and dropped in the Claritycap MR today.  Immediately there was better transparency and detail.  The Thetas are just a dull sounding cap, IMO.

I installed a pair of MR's in my tube preamp with same results, their are nice caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 1 Jun 2016, 04:35 pm
Good lord these ClarityCap MR's take forever to burn in....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rajacat on 1 Jun 2016, 05:08 pm
Good lord these ClarityCap MR's take forever to burn in....
Have you tried Jupiter HTs or the Jupiter copper foils in your BA3?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: OzarkTom on 1 Jun 2016, 05:14 pm
 I had Dueland Alexaders in my Virtue amp, took 500 hours to break in. :duh:

The sound was horrible till then.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 3 Jun 2016, 06:01 pm
Have you tried Jupiter HTs or the Jupiter copper foils in your BA3?

I need 10uf for my amp, Jupiter doesn't make a cap in that size with the 600v rating :(  And the copper foil 10uF is $500 each!!! :O 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 4 Jun 2016, 11:58 am
I need 10uf for my amp, Jupiter doesn't make a cap in that size with the 600v rating :(  And the copper foil 10uF is $500 each!!! :O

I thought I sent you the link below precisely to answer this question. Read up on low pass filter equations, specifically X(c) = 1/2*pi*f*c

Where X(c) is reactance, pi is the number 3.141569..., f=frequency and c=capacitance. Sengpielaudio (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RC.htm) has a calculator online.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/201281-burning-amp-ba-3b-balanced-51.html#post4712839

Given that the BA3 front end uses low voltage rails, you don't have to splurge on high voltage caps which are usually more expensive, and if you don't need an F3 at 0.3Hz which is damn near DC, why use 10 microfarads?

Try a few caps that are smaller and see what you think about the bass response. Or better yet, measure the low frequency response of your amp while you change the cap values. Usually choosing a cap that plays down to an octave below the lowest frequency desired should be enough I thought. Don't your Serenity's already have an active bass section?

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 4 Jun 2016, 03:51 pm
I thought I sent you the link below precisely to answer this question. Read up on low pass filter equations, specifically X(c) = 1/2*pi*f*c

Where X(c) is reactance, pi is the number 3.141569..., f=frequency and c=capacitance. Sengpielaudio (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RC.htm) has a calculator online.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/201281-burning-amp-ba-3b-balanced-51.html#post4712839

Given that the BA3 front end uses low voltage rails, you don't have to splurge on high voltage caps which are usually more expensive, and if you don't need an F3 at 0.3Hz which is damn near DC, why use 10 microfarads?

Try a few caps that are smaller and see what you think about the bass response. Or better yet, measure the low frequency response of your amp while you change the cap values. Usually choosing a cap that plays down to an octave below the lowest frequency desired should be enough I thought. Don't your Serenity's already have an active bass section?

Best,
Anand.

Actually it only powers my midrange which goes down to about 200hz.  That actually gives me an idea that I want to try out - use the cap to reduce the bass of the amp to match the midrange so that the mid panels don't get a signal below 150 hz or so.  Just need to calculate what size cap will give me that with a flat 8 ohm speaker load...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 4 Jun 2016, 04:58 pm
Actually it only powers my midrange which goes down to about 200hz.  That actually gives me an idea that I want to try out - use the cap to reduce the bass of the amp to match the midrange so that the mid panels don't get a signal below 150 hz or so.  Just need to calculate what size cap will give me that with a flat 8 ohm speaker load...

Going to my aforementioned link, you will note, that if you input 0.3Hz for frequency, 10uf for capacitance, then the X(c) reactance that Nelson Pass used was 53k ohms. Now that is your constant and you don't want to change that because that is a design parameter intrinsic to the amplifier design.

So for 150hz, assuming an X(c) of 53k ohms, you solve for capacitance, and you get 0.02 uf. The closest value typically is 0.022uf. If that makes you nervous, try 0.047uf which will allow even more low frequencies...65Hz to be exact.

Personally for full range speakers, I don't know why 0.3Hz is sought. I think 3 Hz would be plenty low and is nearly 2 octaves below 20Hz. But I bet this has to do with people over analyzing frequency response curves and wondering why the amplifier is starting to rolloff at >5Hz.

So theoretically, 1uf should be fine for a full range speaker. Besides, smaller capacitors are cheaper in cost, and can sound a bit more transparent in my book. It all comes down to the design.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Audiophile58 on 4 Jun 2016, 05:16 pm
A great cap that is in that high 12-12.5 range out of 14
And a Best buy is the Audyn True Copper capacitor it is large from Germany 1/2 thd price of Mundorf
Silver oil or silver gold oil  very similar to yhe Jupiter Copper , as good or better in my system , not quite as rich
And less then 1/2 the cost. At parts express. Check it out coupling caps especially.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 4 Jun 2016, 06:06 pm
Going to my aforementioned link, you will note, that if you input 0.3Hz for frequency, 10uf for capacitance, then the X(c) reactance that Nelson Pass used was 53k ohms. Now that is your constant and you don't want to change that because that is a design parameter intrinsic to the amplifier design.

So for 150hz, assuming an X(c) of 53k ohms, you solve for capacitance, and you get 0.02 uf. The closest value typically is 0.022uf. If that makes you nervous, try 0.047uf which will allow even more low frequencies...65Hz to be exact.

Personally for full range speakers, I don't know why 0.3Hz is sought. I think 3 Hz would be plenty low and is nearly 2 octaves below 20Hz. But I bet this has to do with people over analyzing frequency response curves and wondering why the amplifier is starting to rolloff at >5Hz.

So theoretically, 1uf should be fine for a full range speaker. Besides, smaller capacitors are cheaper in cost, and can sound a bit more transparent in my book. It all comes down to the design.

Best,
Anand.

Oh right, because these are coupling caps and not output caps.  Sorry, brain fart.  So the input impedance of the Output Board is what I need.  Like you show, its probably 53,000 ohms but I should double check the values just to be sure. 

The calculator I use is http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=1 at the bottom - it's a little more flexible in that you can input any 2 values and it gives you the 3rd, regardless of position in the formula. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 4 Jun 2016, 06:42 pm
Oh right, because these are coupling caps and not output caps.  Sorry, brain fart.  So the input impedance of the Output Board is what I need.  Like you show, its probably 53,000 ohms but I should double check the values just to be sure. 

The calculator I use is http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=1 at the bottom - it's a little more flexible in that you can input any 2 values and it gives you the 3rd, regardless of position in the formula.

It's a bit more complicated. The 53K figure comes from not only resistances in series but in parallel as well, so without looking at a schematic, I don't know what values that he used to come up with that value. But I don't think I really need to know. We know that Pass likes a corner frequency of 0.3Hz as his low pass and he is recommending a 10uf cap for the BA-3 circuit. So from that you know the reactance already, without even looking at the BA-3 schematic or the output board schematic.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 16 Jun 2016, 11:40 pm
Found out the input impedance for the BA3 output boards is between 5k and 6k.  So I ordered up some .22 uF Jupiter Copper Foil Wax Paper caps and will be installing them when they arrive.  That should get the rolloff started at 150hz for my amp, which is perfect since my midrange panels only go down to 200hz or so.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 16 Jun 2016, 11:50 pm
Found out the input impedance for the BA3 output boards is between 5k and 6k.  So I ordered up some .22 uF Jupiter Copper Foil Wax Paper caps and will be installing them when they arrive.  That should get the rolloff started at 150hz for my amp, which is perfect since my midrange panels only go down to 200hz or so.

Usually calculations are for the F3, or -3 dB point, your slope would be 6 dB/oct, so the rolloff starts a half octave higher. Also, coupling and output caps are serving the same function, coupling is usually used if it's within the component. If it's coupling you know the impedance of the following stage, for output you have to assume low. 5-6k is pretty low.

I have the Jupiter copper caps in my preamp (output), amp (coupling) and midrange driver and tweeter (1st order xos). I like them a lot, very neutral and resolving with a touch of warmth/body...

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 17 Jun 2016, 04:58 pm
Usually calculations are for the F3, or -3 dB point, your slope would be 6 dB/oct, so the rolloff starts a half octave higher. Also, coupling and output caps are serving the same function, coupling is usually used if it's within the component. If it's coupling you know the impedance of the following stage, for output you have to assume low. 5-6k is pretty low.

I have the Jupiter copper caps in my preamp (output), amp (coupling) and midrange driver and tweeter (1st order xos). I like them a lot, very neutral and resolving with a touch of warmth/body...



Yes, starting the rolloff an octave earlier is exactly what I want.  The less bass my mid panels see, the better.  I have the servo bass woofers to go up to 200hz or so. 

I'm going to replace the Clarity Cap MR 10uF cap with the .22 uF Jupiter Caps.  That will also allow me to remove the .015 uF AuriT cap I have on the output of my preamp, which is currently rolling the bass off before it hits my BA3. So, I get to remove a small cap from the signal while at the same time replacing a large cap with a smaller cap of better quality.  Can't imagine I won't end up with better sound.  But I never count my chickens before they hatch.  Been wrong about too many things in the past :D
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 22 Jun 2016, 10:49 pm
Jupiter .22 uF Copper Foil Wax Paper caps came yesterday.  Got them installed today.  Even with no break in I can say they are already better than the 10uF Clarity Cap MR's they replaced.  Of course using the .22uF value also let me remove the .015uF teflon caps I had on the inputs of the amp.  So I was correct - going to a smaller, better quality cap and removing an extra cap from the signal path all conspired to get quite a bit better sound.  Nice.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 22 Jun 2016, 10:53 pm
Jupiter .22 uF Copper Foil Wax Paper caps came yesterday.  Got them installed today.  Even with no break in I can say they are already better than the 10uF Clarity Cap MR's they replaced.  Of course using the .22uF value also let me remove the .015uF teflon caps I had on the inputs of the amp.  So I was correct - going to a smaller, better quality cap and removing an extra cap from the signal path all conspired to get quite a bit better sound.  Nice.

I know with more time you'll have a better handle on the Jupiters, but can you try and describe them vs the MR's?  I've had MR's before on another set of speakers and liked them but I have V-caps now on my current set. The thought of changing to Jupiters(if possible) is on my mind...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 22 Jun 2016, 10:55 pm
Jupiter .22 uF Copper Foil Wax Paper caps came yesterday.  Got them installed today.  Even with no break in I can say they are already better than the 10uF Clarity Cap MR's they replaced.  Of course using the .22uF value also let me remove the .015uF teflon caps I had on the inputs of the amp.  So I was correct - going to a smaller, better quality cap and removing an extra cap from the signal path all conspired to get quite a bit better sound.  Nice.
What were the measured difference of the values? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jun 2016, 10:58 pm
Jupiter .22 uF Copper Foil Wax Paper caps came yesterday.  Got them installed today.  Even with no break in I can say they are already better than the 10uF Clarity Cap MR's they replaced.  Of course using the .22uF value also let me remove the .015uF teflon caps I had on the inputs of the amp.  So I was correct - going to a smaller, better quality cap and removing an extra cap from the signal path all conspired to get quite a bit better sound.  Nice.

That's why we use Jupiter in our crossovers.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 22 Jun 2016, 11:16 pm
What were the measured difference of the values? 

Nelson uses 10uF coupling caps on the input board on the BA3, which gives full range response.  I had 10uF Clarity Caps in there for that reason.  But my amp only drives the midrange drivers on my speakers, so I had a .015 teflon cap on the input of the amp to limit bass below 200hz.  When I swapped the .22 uF Jupiters for the 10uF Clarity Caps, the input board itself would limit bass below 150hz.  So I was able to remove the .015uF teflon caps on the inputs. 

Does this answer your question, or were you asking something else?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 22 Jun 2016, 11:28 pm
I know with more time you'll have a better handle on the Jupiters, but can you try and describe them vs the MR's?  I've had MR's before on another set of speakers and liked them but I have V-caps now on my current set. The thought of changing to Jupiters(if possible) is on my mind...

Just sound more real.  I suspect it's a combo of using actual copper vs aluminum and tin foil, but even more importantly using good methods of vibration damping/control, i.e. the paper and wax.  I recently switched inductors to the Jantzen copper/wax and noticed a similar leap in realism. 

It makes me sad though, because now I am going to want to eventually change the caps in my speakers to Jupiters and that will not be cheap AT ALL.  Sigh.  Haha, I'm not really sad, just joking.  I'm actually very happy to have my amp sounding so awesome, and I'm even glad to know that my speakers are not yet at their peak sound yet either, they can also be improved.  Just need to save up some $$....
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 22 Jun 2016, 11:31 pm
Does this answer your question, or were you asking something else?
Did you use an L/C/R meter to make sure you were replacing the cap value with a direct replacement so you're not being fooled in the sonic department b/c you're actually changing the value?  It's a common mistake...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 22 Jun 2016, 11:44 pm
Did you use an L/C/R meter to make sure you were replacing the cap value with a direct replacement so you're not being fooled in the sonic department b/c you're actually changing the value?  It's a common mistake...

I think you missed my point that I am deliberately using a different sized cap than the original one.  The replacement cap is a different value than the original cap and that's by design.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 22 Jun 2016, 11:46 pm
I think you missed my point that I am deliberately using a different sized cap than the original one.  The replacement cap is a different value than the original cap and that's by design.
Then how can you say it sounds better due to the cap?   :scratch:   Changing two variables...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 22 Jun 2016, 11:58 pm
That's exactly what I said - I changed a few things at once and I'm pretty sure that all of them together added up to the change I'm hearing.  If pressed I'd even go so far to say that being able to remove the .015uF teflon cap from the input was probably the biggest change factor. 

To be perfectly fair I'd have to buy a pair of .22uF Clarity MR caps and swap them in for the .22uF Jupiter caps.  But that's pretty wasteful from the $$ standpoint.  However if anyone reading this thread wants to send me a .22uF Clarity Cap MR I'd be more than happy to do the comparison in my system.

I probably should also quantify the level of changes I'm talking about here - swapping out parts makes a difference, but no where near the same level of improvement of moving to a house with a dedicated audio room.  And I'm also in the process of putting in more room treatments, which also have a larger impact than part swapping.  As always, I recommend people get their room set up well before messing with any of this other stuff.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 9 Jul 2016, 11:06 pm
Update on the caps - Man do these guys take their time burning in.  At first they sound amazing, but then pretty soon they go through a "muffled" stage that lasts a long, long time.  I've been running my system at least 12 hours a day since installing the caps and they are only 'just now' coming out of the muffled stage.

So, how do they sound?  It's the closest I've ever gotten to "SET sound" in my First Watt Burning Amp.  Firm, clear, transparent, and a slight glow that makes everything more beautiful.  They are not soft sounding, in fact they are very dynamic, firm, and clear.  Where the Clarity Cap MR caps were a touch on the analytical side, the Jupiters are a touch on the golden side.  Very slight.  And it makes listening to music awesome. 

PS, someone PM'd me about some other copper caps but it got deleted by accident - please pm me again. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 9 Jul 2016, 11:18 pm
I'm eager to hear a review of Lefson capacitors... anyone?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 10 Jul 2016, 12:39 am
I'm eager to hear a review of Lefson capacitors... anyone?

Starting at $250+ per cap you might be waiting a while.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 10 Jul 2016, 02:48 am
Yes I know... I would consider using them in an amplifier (commercially) but they don't do samples for businesses and no one has heard them. It would require 4 of them, so...  :duh: I've sent out samples and done lots of free stuff and I don't even make $ yet. They're kinda shooting themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 13 Oct 2016, 02:49 am
Clarity cap has a new baby.....the CMR.....will be interesting to see how they fare versus the "tired and old MRs".

http://www.claritycap.co.uk/products/cmr.php
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 14 Oct 2016, 03:38 pm
Clarity cap has a new baby.....the CMR.....will be interesting to see how they fare versus the "tired and old MRs".

http://www.claritycap.co.uk/products/cmr.php

I haven't tried them yet... I think the copper-connect tech is also in the ESA line... but reducing grain boundaries is very beneficial, and the whole point of OCC wire, so I think it'll be a nice improvement. Right now I'm using ESA + Jupiter copper bypass for a 50 uF midrange high pass filter with excellent results, will try the new ESAs soon.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Hugh on 14 Oct 2016, 03:50 pm
Yes, they are called CMR and CSA.

We are testing them right now as we speak.

I don't believe they can better Jupiters though.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Nov 2016, 07:55 pm
Yes, they are called CMR and CSA.

We are testing them right now as we speak.

I don't believe they can better Jupiters though.

Any thoughts on these yet?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 25 Nov 2016, 06:05 pm
I put in a pair of .22 Jupiter caps into my speaker crossovers on my Serenity Acoustic Super 7's.  I used them to bypass the 10uf tweeter cap and the 15uf midrange cap, both of which are ClarityCap MR.  The improvement was, uhm, substantial.  It's like switching from a good SS amp to a good tube amp.  Less edge, less hardness, more natural instrumental sound.  Greater clarity at lower levels, which means I have to turn the volume up less but can still hear everything.  Better defined soundstage space and instrumental placement within that space.  Things like that.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Folsom on 25 Nov 2016, 06:56 pm
What are the caps you bypassed?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 25 Nov 2016, 07:20 pm
I put in a pair of .22 Jupiter caps into my speaker crossovers on my Serenity Acoustic Super 7's.  I used them to bypass the 10uf tweeter cap and the 15uf midrange cap, both of which are ClarityCap MR.  The improvement was, uhm, substantial.  It's like switching from a good SS amp to a good tube amp.  Less edge, less hardness, more natural instrumental sound.  Greater clarity at lower levels, which means I have to turn the volume up less but can still hear everything.  Better defined soundstage space and instrumental placement within that space.  Things like that.

Yup, I'm using 50 uf ESA bypassed with 2.2 uf Jupiter copper for a 1st order midrange xo and the result is excellent, almost as good as no cap at all. And price is reasonable... well, relatively. ;)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mikeeastman on 26 Nov 2016, 04:35 pm
Tyson, what bypass caps did the Jupiters replace?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 27 Nov 2016, 09:25 pm
Tyson, what bypass caps did the Jupiters replace?

Originally I had the Sonicap Gen 1's bypass with Sonicap Platinums.  Then I moved to the Clarity Cap MR with no bypass.  I thought it was a slight improvement, but mostly just a sideways move.  Then I bypassed the MRs with the Jupiters and that's when the magic happened. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 28 Dec 2016, 05:43 pm
I just replaced the 10uF 630v capacitors in my Pass B1 preamp.  I was using a pair of Clarity ESA's and just swapped in a pair of Obbligato Gold's, same value.  Right off the bat with no break in there was a noticeable difference.  The sound stage became more 3D or holographic.  The overall sound is a bit softer and less forward with more air and transparency.  Bass is toned down slightly which is a good thing because the preamp has way too much bass.  Treble has more air and detail.  It is also a bit more prominent.  The sound stage is much wider and taller.  They definitely are a bit on the warm side like the Clarity ESA's. I don't have the caps soldered in yet.  They are connected using alligator clips.  I won't make a final determination as to whether I will keep them in the B1 or put them in the Pass balanced preamp that I am building (Bride of Son of Zen) until I have about 50 hours on them.  The ESA's have a more focused sound.  The caps are paired with Mundorf M-Caps, 1uF 630v.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Chiswocka on 24 Jan 2017, 07:59 am
Amazing thread, anyone try Audyn True Copper bypassed with V-cap TFTF for tube preamp use?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 24 Jan 2017, 06:47 pm
After trying a bunch of caps over the years, I've settled on the Jupiter Paper/Wax/Copper Foil caps as my default choice.  Expensive, but they are the best IME.  Might as well just stick with the best whenever possible. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MothAudio on 2 Feb 2017, 10:14 am
 Jupiter Paper/Wax/Copper Foil caps [2] delivered tomorrow, replacing Exotica TFT caps in my Moth Audio s45.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mikeeastman on 2 Feb 2017, 02:41 pm
 +1 on Jupiter Paper/Wax/Copper Foil caps.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MarkR7 on 2 Feb 2017, 04:35 pm
+2 on the Jupiter Copper Foil Caps.... I put them in my Dodd preamp, and more recently into my Decware CSP2+ preamp.  They are simply fantastic at letting all the music through, while having the speed and soundstage to make them addictive!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: DaveC113 on 2 Feb 2017, 07:29 pm
+ wherever we are for Jupiter copper caps!  :thumb:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MothAudio on 7 Feb 2017, 03:30 am
Jupiter Paper/Wax/Copper Foil caps [2] delivered tomorrow, replacing Exotica TFT caps in my Moth Audio s45.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rbb-iAP_ntM/WJdMYS5p-pI/AAAAAAAAGnY/mNvWENLIoZIrfNeKaIkOY80E7IxFOtZKgCJoC/w795-h597-p/IMG_20170205_110028.jpg)

After only 5 hrs they already beat the Teflon caps. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: gagamut on 21 Feb 2017, 02:40 am
Hi everyone,

i am a newbie,i have question,if i can find a exactly same value capacitor to instead the old one,what can i do.
and my capacitor is 4.7uf 250V,so can i use 5uf 310V?and sound will bad or...............?thanks

Regards
Sam
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 21 Feb 2017, 02:55 am
Hi everyone,

i am a newbie,i have question,if i can find a exactly same value capacitor to instead the old one,what can i do.
and my capacitor is 4.7uf 250V,so can i use 5uf 310V?and sound will bad or...............?thanks

Regards
Sam

4.7 is actually a standard cap value ... so you should be able to find one.  Alternatively, as the caps you are looking at are probably +/- 5% in value ... if you can find a low-value "5uF" ... it will be almost 4.7uF.

The higher voltage rating is fine.


Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: gagamut on 21 Feb 2017, 03:02 am
4.7 is actually a standard cap value ... so you should be able to find one.  Alternatively, as the caps you are looking at are probably +/- 5% in value ... if you can find a low-value "5uF" ... it will be almost 4.7uF.

The higher voltage rating is fine.


Andy

thanks for reply.

one more question,Capacitor need match??
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: andyr on 21 Feb 2017, 03:30 am
thanks for reply.

one more question,Capacitor need match??

Not sure what you mean?  But, yes, the same cap should ideally be used in the L & R channel.

Andy
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: MothAudio on 26 Feb 2017, 02:02 pm
I'm guessing I have around 200 hours on the Jupiter Paper/Wax/Copper Foil caps. Have we reached a point of stabilization or is it still ongoing? Things were settling in very well then I made a system change where I added a IEC/NEMA power cord adapter to my power line conditioner and swapped out the stock Shunyata cord for a BMI pc. With these three system changes the vocals gained a spitty quality and the bass became less prominent.

I'm certain the 1st is due to the new adapter but unsure if the bass was affected as well or is this consistent with where I'm @ in the burn in process of the caps. 



Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 19 Mar 2017, 05:54 am



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159425)


Its got me wondering about pulling out the Clarity Cap px5u2j250 (5uf?)bypassed by an black coloured"AC" brand , 440 v .5mf(probably low cost china caps) and an AC 3.5uf for the tweeter.As Im just about  to put in two brand new hi-vi research d6.8s I got from Solen into my 12 year old now mothballed Totem Forests I noticed the crossover has these caps just bolted into it with steels screws on plastic terminals. It really looks like it would be a cinch to bolt in some er lets say Clarity MRs capacitors like in the more higher end "Signature" Improved version of the Totem Forests are now using .Looking at this I see you like that pricey beeswax copper foil paper Jupiter the most. Im presuming its the "copper" ,thats the secret to its sound quality Im guessing. I hope you have tried listening to other copper foil ones about of interest like the Audio Note copper polypropylenes from Parts Connextion at half the cost. Ever heard those? Im starting to get really tempted . Whadda you say?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Johnny2Bad on 19 Mar 2017, 12:02 pm
The only issue I have with xx / wax caps is the environmental one; I hesitate to use them when heat, such as in some power amplifier or vacuum tube situations, or very low temperatures (eg car audio in the Northern Hemisphere) could be an issue. When that is not a problem, have at 'er.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 20 Mar 2017, 09:48 am
The only issue I have with xx / wax caps is the environmental one; I hesitate to use them when heat, such as in some power amplifier or vacuum tube situations, or very low temperatures (eg car audio in the Northern Hemisphere) could be an issue. When that is not a problem, have at 'er.
[Yes that's why I thought to check out polyfilm copper ones to compare against the wax n paper copper versions but I think it might be ok in a home speaker crossover ,I hope.quote]
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 24 Mar 2017, 01:29 am
The only issue I have with xx / wax caps is the environmental one; I hesitate to use them when heat, such as in some power amplifier or vacuum tube situations, or very low temperatures (eg car audio in the Northern Hemisphere) could be an issue. When that is not a problem, have at 'er.

The very original Jupiter caps were only rated to 110 F (43 C or so), but they were aware of the heat issue and improved the materials/construction so that the Jupiter copper caps are rated to 176 F (80 C).  I haven't experienced any type heat-related failures in any of the tubed gear I've put the current Jupiter caps in.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: JakeJ on 24 Mar 2017, 04:05 am
Cool, Jon L,  very good to know.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ieatsound on 21 Apr 2017, 06:44 am
hi! :wink:,
do you never compared claritycap CMR vs MR ?

also, what do you think about sound defferences between mundorf vs claritycap ?

thnk you :wink:
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 21 Apr 2017, 02:54 pm
hi! :wink:,
do you never compared claritycap CMR vs MR ?

also, what do you think about sound defferences between mundorf vs claritycap ?

thnk you :wink:


Which Mundorf and Clarity caps?  There are multiple versions of both.

Here is a nice review of caps if you have not already seen it-

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Here are a few others-

http://singaporehifi.blogspot.com/2010/09/capacitor-shoot-out.html

http://www.laventure.net/tourist/caps.htm
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ieatsound on 21 Apr 2017, 03:04 pm
mundorf silver oil and claritycap mr

thank you for the links but i already read
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 7 May 2017, 01:28 pm
yes I think clarity mr might be good for my totems
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ieatsound on 7 May 2017, 03:23 pm
do you compared mr vs silver oil ?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 9 Jun 2017, 10:06 am
I found the black capacitors  say :(RC with a oval circle around them) in the Totem forest .I could not identify them. If you can guess I dissected one, they have a black case and full of hard plastic resin inside encasing a metalized film inside that looks like cheap n lousy looking film foil like mayby something used for industrial or car capacitors but not audiofile caps whatsoever.One is 3.5 (measured 3.61 on my cap meter ) the other was a .5ufd black RC junker combined with a real PX clarity cap 5.2uf(measured the combo together was 5.5uf but should be 5.7uf). So I guess Ill try Mundorf Supreame 5.6 for woofer and the tweeter a Clarity Cap 3.3uf with a Mundorf supreame .22uf combo for 3.52uf and a Path audio 3.9ohms for the tweeter to sweeten up the stew.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 9 Jun 2017, 04:36 pm
Clarity MR's are great caps.  I use them in my Serenity Acoustic Super 7's.  For bypass caps, I use Jupiter Copper foil and beeswax, it gives that Dueland type sound without the ridiculous price tag.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Chiswocka on 17 Jun 2017, 09:18 am
Anyone tried Duelund CAST tinned copper or silver copper?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 23 Jun 2017, 01:37 pm
Anyone heard of the Richard Hovlands Supercap ,a better version of Hovlands caps I think .This long narrow cap will fit inside very nicely.I found some interesting "stuff" too a sticky type of sorbothane rubber used in audio to damp unwanted vibrations.They are selling a carpet adhesive in the dollar stores it looks exactly the same stuff. It sticks without leaving any residue. The capacitors I found are taped to the board with a double sided adhesive tape but this sorbothane carpet stuff should help reduce microphonic effects way better! Yes I don't mind the idea of Clarity Caps MR rated but darn, they are very bulky fat jobbies but the slender long Hovland Supercap will stuff between the coil and resistor and they are well rated very good  by Humble hi fi .
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 23 Jun 2017, 06:19 pm
Anyone tried Duelund CAST tinned copper or silver copper?

  I have tried the Hybrid copper/silver CAST PIO against the copper CAST PIO. In direct comparison more open, transparent and yes musical in every way. Bass is better defined as well. A big jump up in performance. Used in Arion hybrid class "D" mono blocks. Original cap was Cardas which is no slouch until you experience Duelund.

charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jostber on 25 Jun 2017, 04:49 am
Anyone checked these new Alumen capacitors from Jantzen?

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Alumen_Z-Cap.htm
http://www.jantzen-audio.com/alumen-z-cap/







Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 8 Jul 2017, 11:28 am
Would anyone know about the how good are the "european terminator blocks" used to bolt crossover parts together and wire internal speaker wires up in crossovers sound?(see my crossover pic above)As for the monsterous sized  Duesland  caps I see they are using out of speaker crossover platforms and bolting the parts and wires together with hardware store copper grounding lugs (shaped like a copper boot with a screw bolt inside). Are these better?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 8 Jul 2017, 06:00 pm
Would anyone know about the how good are the "european terminator blocks" used to bolt crossover parts together and wire internal speaker wires up in crossovers sound?(see my crossover pic above)As for the monsterous sized  Duesland  caps I see they are using out of speaker crossover platforms and bolting the parts and wires together with hardware store copper grounding lugs (shaped like a copper boot with a screw bolt inside). Are these better?

  You may consider doing that yourself. Meaning outboard crossovers. Every speaker we have done that was an improvement in sound. For get terminator blocks. Twist and solder and be happier. Why use plastic and another connection ?
   BTW Jupiter copper with Duelund universal silver bypass cap is a frugal way to get Duelund performance.


charles


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 10 Jul 2017, 10:33 am
Id put it a thick plexiglass box then to keep the dust out if thus your going for the ultimate .lol
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 18 Jul 2017, 09:47 am
How do you mount a huge fat round much heavier capacitor to a flat crossover board? The double sided sticky tape from the dollar store going to do it like the ones that was on my much smaller original crossover capacitors?   :scratch:   :duh:  oh my...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Wayne1 on 18 Jul 2017, 10:41 am
Take a look at what Keithh has done to his Wedgie speaker. Cutting out the board to allow the capacitors to rest inside the cut outs.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151056.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151056.0)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164232)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164236)

You could also just use silicone sealant to hold and somewhat isolate the capacitors from the boards.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: earwig on 19 Jul 2017, 11:18 am
That looks cool! So I just get some small enlongated wooden blocks or plastic and carve a concave little "capacitor cradle" for my round capacitors then I can flush mount the bottom of the flat part of the block against the flat crossover board either by glueing or flat adesive tape will stick much better. That picture above gave me that idea any other ideas?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Audiophile58 on 2 Aug 2017, 07:45 am
I have been modding caps since 2000. I have found in some speakers depending on drivers oil caps
Even jupiters can be  too rich if used as main caps .excellent caps even duelund,but sometimes room willl not
Allow this . I recently bought the latest Martin Logan- 11A that has active 24 bit dual powered subs in each speaker and Bass room correction. it is very well made jantzen inductors ,1% resistors, only 3 caps ,that crossover at 300 hz then free range . I got  rid of the Solen 33uf Bass cap and replaced it with the New Clarity Csa Cap a Dramatic difference in size 2x the diameter 2x3 and Much better
Bass slam and accuracy. The two small 4.7,5.6 caps I had Mundorf  Supremes,for highs with a .22 Mundorf Silver oilbypass cap ,and new Clarity Csa,with same .22 bypass cap . Since all three caps are linked lowpass from low Bass to 300hz mid Bass and very limited space in separate draw under the Woofers these barely fit
The 3 caps Very work together very well and are a very cost effective combination that sound several times more expensive then the $250 I spent.with crossover tuning nothing is written in stone.
If in the New England area -Ma   As a Audiophile I welcome fellow Audiophiles to stop over.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Spuds on 17 Oct 2017, 07:03 am
Incredible post Jon !!! I've actually read all 45 posts now... I recently bought a Transcendent Grounded Grid preamp with some upgrades and Mundorf M Cap Supreme 1uF 410VAC/600VDC coupling caps. I know you were using V-Cap Teflon caps but a little too costly at this point. I was considering Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil or Jupiter Copper Foil caps. Have you tried these in your Transcendent preamp yet ? Thanks
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: GETRDUN on 14 Dec 2017, 11:42 am
Incredible post Jon !!! I've actually read all 45 posts now... I recently bought a Transcendent Grounded Grid preamp with some upgrades and Mundorf M Cap Supreme 1uF 410VAC/600VDC coupling caps. I know you were using V-Cap Teflon caps but a little too costly at this point. I was considering Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil or Jupiter Copper Foil caps. Have you tried these in your Transcendent preamp yet ? Thanks

I think you meant you read all 45 pages..lol..Really good info here!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: GETRDUN on 14 Dec 2017, 12:41 pm
I haven't heard any mention about the Cornell Dubilier 940C series 0.01uF/3000V for bypassing! Tony Gee says the Vishay MKP1837 used to be his favorite low cost bypass capacitor, but now it is the Cornell Dubilier 940C. Has anyone tried these? I also wonder about the other 950C series in speaker crossovers? Not that expensive, yet they come in higher values then the 940C!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: rollo on 14 Dec 2017, 05:21 pm
Take a look at what Keithh has done to his Wedgie speaker. Cutting out the board to allow the capacitors to rest inside the cut outs.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151056.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151056.0)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164232)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164236)

You could also just use silicone sealant to hold and somewhat isolate the capacitors from the boards.


  Just curious to know if you listened before installing wood on caps ?


charles
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 14 Dec 2017, 06:55 pm
I haven't heard any mention about the Cornell Dubilier 940C series 0.01uF/3000V for bypassing! Tony Gee says the Vishay MKP1837 used to be his favorite low cost bypass capacitor, but now it is the Cornell Dubilier 940C. Has anyone tried these? I also wonder about the other 950C series in speaker crossovers? Not that expensive, yet they come in higher values then the 940C!

Hm, I might order some. I like that Tony is trying out these industrial options. He's got Panasonic EP-ZE(?) or something like that up next. Curious how those will be rated since they come in inexpensive large values up to 60uf.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: GETRDUN on 14 Dec 2017, 11:14 pm
Hm, I might order some. I like that Tony is trying out these industrial options. He's got Panasonic EP-ZE(?) or something like that up next. Curious how those will be rated since they come in inexpensive large values up to 60uf.

I'd like to try them as well. I am also interested to see what he rates the Miflex caps! Those Panasonics will be of interest too!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Johnny2Bad on 14 Dec 2017, 11:42 pm
Would anyone know about the how good are the "european terminator blocks" used to bolt crossover parts together and wire internal speaker wires up in crossovers sound?(see my crossover pic above)As for the monsterous sized  Duesland  caps I see they are using out of speaker crossover platforms and bolting the parts and wires together with hardware store copper grounding lugs (shaped like a copper boot with a screw bolt inside). Are these better?

The "Euro" connectors are, by all accounts, fine.

I like WAGO connectors (the lever models) which make a gas-tight connection, means no corrosion at the connection point. A little pricey but manageable. Certain models will take a wide variety of wire sizes and both stranded and solid. Somewhat confusing catalog ("European style" information, lots of symbols instead of text) and limited distribution but still you can find them if you want.

Catalog (relevant to our use; they have more connection products):
http://www.wago.us/products/terminal-blocks-and-connectors/installation-connectors/compact-splicing-connectors-for-all-conductor-types-221-series/overview/

http://www.wago.us/products/pcb-terminal-blocks-and-connectors/overview/

Sources (USA + Canada):
http://www.wago.us/wago/contact-where-to-buy/where-to-buy-usa/

Europe (Main Site):
http://global.wago.com/en/index-en.jsp
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 27 Mar 2018, 09:55 pm
I have been trying out the Audyn True Copper caps to see how they stack up against the Jupiter Wax/Copper caps. 

Some notes on the Audyns - they have very thick leads, so you may not be able to fit them through the through-holes in an amp or preamp.  If you are good at soldering, you can just solder it directly to the trace, which is what I did.  Also it is double-wound to lower induction and also nicely deals with resonances.  It results in a really thick cap.  Check the dimensions and make sure it'll actually fit in the space you have. 

OK, the Audyn caps have finally burned in enough that I can give an idea of how they sound.  They have absolute, perfect clarity, without any edge or spotlighting.  Perfectly even tonal balance.  As close to "not there" sounding as I've ever experienced.  BUT, still missing the beauty/magic of the Jupiter copper caps. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 28 Mar 2018, 10:19 pm
OK, final update on the Audyns and Jupiters.  Put the Jupiters back in my amp today and aaaahhhhh, that's the good stuff.  I didn't think the Audyns had glare until I put in the Jupiters.  But it's true.  The Jupiters are just a better, more natural sounding cap. 

I do think the Audyns are a step up over the Clarity Cap MRs I also like.  The Audyn's are about halfway between the Clarity MRs and the Jupiter Copper Wax Paper caps. 

My advice remains the same - if you have the $$, just go for the Jupiters.  If you're gonna spend money, might as well have the best.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: THROWBACK on 28 Mar 2018, 11:11 pm
 . . .  and the best part of all is that you did all the work and I reaped the benefit. I changed out the caps in my GR Research LS-9 (open baffle version) crossovers to Jupiters and I have had the "aaahhh" experience ever since. Thanks!
Chuck
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 21 May 2018, 04:42 pm
FYI, Tony Gee has finally finished his latest round of Cap Tests. And now has a downloadable PDF!

EDIT: I'd stock up on the Panasonics before word starts to spread and the price goes up/stock depletion.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Nick V on 21 May 2018, 10:45 pm
I'm not all that well versed in upgraded caps. I have a pair of Polk Audio LSi9 in my bedroom system that have upgraded crossovers (from the previous owner - the parts still aren't that high-end, Mills resistors and Solen caps), and the LH Labs Vi DAC tube that I ordered (3 years ago!!) will have V-Cap TFTF output caps (if it ever actually ships out). I'm not sure what the Esoteric SA-50 that I'm using now has for output caps, but it sounds good.

I'm currently having a new pair of 3-way bookshelf speakers built by Selah Audio.

They use a ScanSpeak beryllium tweeter, SB Satori 5" midrange and 8" SB Acoustics woofer.

His standard crossover components are as quoted:

"The crossover will use polypropylene caps (Clarity PX in the tweeter section) and Mundorf 10w resistors" 

I'm thinking of having him upgrade to Clarity PX in the woofer/midrange section and Clarity CSA in the tweeter. Is this a reasonable place to start? The drivers are high quality, so I want the crossover components to be of similar quality.

Selah also mentioned there isn't much room for some of the huge caps in this design. Are there good upgrade options that are still relatively small in size?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 23 Oct 2018, 12:11 am
Tyson,
Did you listen to the Audyn true copper or the true copper MAX (latest and best version)?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 23 Oct 2018, 12:22 am
Tyson,
Did you listen to the Audyn true copper or the true copper MAX (latest and best version)?

They were good.  Not as good as the Jupiters IMO.  The Audyns were quite a bit more forward.  Which is great if you have a system that's a bit laid back, or if you really like detail pushed toward you.  But otherwise the Jupiters were better.

I will say this - all copper foil caps (including the Audyns) are very smooth.  Whether forward, middle, or laid back in overall sound, ALL of them had a smooth, coherent sound from top to bottom.  So it really comes down to preference I guess.  Do you prefer more punchy, exciting sound?  Get the Audyns.  More neutral?  Then get the Jupiters.  Laid back just a bit?  Then get the Duelands.  Although I'm speculating a bit with the Duelands as I've not heard them in my system - too much for my budget. 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Rusty Jefferson on 23 Oct 2018, 01:17 am
....I will say this - all copper foil caps (including the Audyns) are very smooth.  Whether forward, middle, or laid back in overall sound, ALL of them had a smooth, coherent sound from top to bottom. ....
Sorry to jump into a thread 900+ posts in. 

I'm assuming you're experimenting with coupling capacitors?  If so, I couldn't agree more with the above statement, almost.  I agree all the Copper caps I've recently experimented with have amazing smoothness, but when we added Duelund Silver bypass capacitors (expensive I know) to any of the Copper caps, THEN they had top to bottom performance.  Amazing improvement.

No flames in case these have been mentioned before, but in our double blind tests, we continually picked the Urushi capacitors as having the most neutral, refined, open and transparent sound of any we tried except for Duelunds with Duelund Silver bypass, at a fraction of the price.  Limited selection however, but amazing sound.

Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 23 Oct 2018, 06:09 pm
Tyson,
You did not answer my question.  Audyn makes a true copper and a true copper MAX capacitor. 

See this page:  https://www.intertechnik.de/shop/cross-over-parts/capacitors/1768,en,9

Which did you listen to?  Thanks.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 24 Oct 2018, 12:48 am
Tyson,
You did not answer my question.  Audyn makes a true copper and a true copper MAX capacitor. 

See this page:  https://www.intertechnik.de/shop/cross-over-parts/capacitors/1768,en,9

Which did you listen to?  Thanks.

Oh, sorry about that.  Just the Copper, not the Max.  I thought about the Max (and might still get some), but I didn't like the tone of the plain Copper version and I'd be surprised if Max improved anything in that area.  The other thing is that the leads are way too thick and can't be put through a through-hole so you have to get creative to even get them installed anywhere inside an amp.  Plus the leads are also epoxied so if you cut the leads, you have to somehow strip the epoxy to bare some of the copper so it can make a decent connection.  Overall just too much of a PITA to keep messing with, IMO.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 24 Oct 2018, 07:12 am
Yes, those leads are rather unwieldly.  I have some MAX here and I am going to try to grind off the epoxy on a small part of one end and see if I can solder my own wire onto the connecting goo inside.  If it works (I do this now on Wima caps and have done this to some JB JFX caps) then I will remove all the leads and epoxy on both sides and solder my own wires on.  With a dremel and sanding disc does not take that much time to remove all the epoxy, etc......is rather messy....recommend a mask as the epoxy dust goes everywhere.  Hey, doesn't everyone mod their capacitors? 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: jtwrace on 24 Oct 2018, 12:33 pm
Yes, those leads are rather unwieldly.  I have some MAX here and I am going to try to grind off the epoxy on a small part of one end and see if I can solder my own wire onto the connecting goo inside.  If it works (I do this now on Wima caps and have done this to some JB JFX caps) then I will remove all the leads and epoxy on both sides and solder my own wires on.  With a dremel and sanding disc does not take that much time to remove all the epoxy, etc......is rather messy....recommend a mask as the epoxy dust goes everywhere.  Hey, doesn't everyone mod their capacitors?
That sounds a bit hackish to me.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: BobM on 24 Oct 2018, 12:44 pm
I have a Hagerman Trumpet phono stage which allows me to switch between 2 different 1.0 uF output capacitors. I put the copper Jupiters on one side and I have Amp Ohm aluminum and oils on the other. Damn if I can't tell the difference between the two. That tells you just how good those old Amp Ohms really were.

I've tried a lot of different caps before I got the Jupiters, but those Amp Ohms have stayed in there the whole time.

BTW, here's a link that might be interesting to all of you.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html (http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html)


Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Ric Schultz on 25 Oct 2018, 12:32 am
That sounds a bit hackish to me.

I love that you hate my tweakiness.  Please, more one liners! 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 25 Oct 2018, 12:51 am
I love that you hate my tweakiness.  Please, more one liners!

Oh that’s nothing. You had me rolling on the floor with this one:

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/IFI_SPDIF_IPurifier.html

 Looks like you dropped your Class A amp idea in favor of the 1200AS craze too. Who knows what diabolical riske tweaks will be incorporated there?!

Fun to watch, thanks for the entertainment...

And still going at it at age 70!

Anand.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: hi2alex2 on 29 Mar 2019, 08:12 pm
Sorry if I've missed it but has anyone noted that said caps function differently in a low voltage environment i.e. line level or preamp vs high current i.e. speaker level? In my experience I noted significant/what seems to be greater inductance in high voltage caps (e.g. 600v)  vs lower voltage caps (e.g. 100v) when used in low level sources. The result is undesired and significant bass truncation.

I've not measured this so my experience is only subjective.

thoughts?

hi2alex2
Springfield, OR.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 19 Jul 2019, 05:13 pm
Just an update as I have some cool news.  If you've read anywhere in this thread you know I'm a Jupiter cap fanatic.  However I've found something better AND cheaper.  What?!!  Haha that never happens, right!?

Check out the new Miflex caps, the copper version are amazing.  I've been replacing all of the coupling and/or output caps in all my amps from the Jupiter copper to the Miflex caps.  IME the Miflex have better tonal density, more punch, more detail and present a blacker background.  In almost every respect that I care about, the Miflex are a serious step up. 

Highly recommended, especially since they cost 1/2 to 1/3 of the Jupiter caps.  That's some crazy good value right there.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 19 Jul 2019, 06:38 pm
Just an update as I have some cool news.  If you've read anywhere in this thread you know I'm a Jupiter cap fanatic.  However I've found something better AND cheaper.  What?!!  Haha that never happens, right!?

Check out the new Miflex caps, the copper version are amazing.  I've been replacing all of the coupling and/or output caps in all my amps from the Jupiter copper to the Miflex caps.  IME the Miflex have better tonal density, more punch, more detail and present a blacker background.  In almost every respect that I care about, the Miflex are a serious step up. 

Highly recommended, especially since they cost 1/2 to 1/3 of the Jupiter caps.  That's some crazy good value right there.

Looks like another bargain like the old AmpOhms. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: I'll probably get the Aluminum. That seems like a hell of a bargain. I remember liking those with ampohm.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: pinon on 19 Jul 2019, 08:11 pm
I have fallen for Miflex Copper Oil also. I replaced Jupiter HTs coupling caps with Jupiter Coppers in my Decware Torii IV some years ago. I recall liking the more neutral balance and solid sound, along with the refined resolution of the coppers. Though more deep and refined mid-bass down than HTs, in my setup I still found the Coppers a little less resolving/articulate lower down than I would have liked, nicely deep, but a little thickish.

Then a couple years ago I found Miflex Coppers. In an attempt to solve slight dark/thick tendencies I had to work around at times, I lowered the Jupiter 0.10 values to 0.082 when I ordered Miflex Coppers. I have little doubt this was a good move for my tastes with this amp. But I was impressed how far it went beyond what I imagined to be value reduction effects. The Miflex Coppers are "less there" in terms of cap sound to me, solving some spacial thickness/density veils with the Jupiters, more clear with the Miflex as a comparator. I burned them in quite a while on my FryBaby2, the FryBaby really helping with the more oppressive burnin stages for me. Though parts always benefit from several days or more of amp time, the FryBaby helps me get close enough to read things well. Right off I heard enough balance, free flow and freshness to resolve fears of "losing" from pulling the Jupiters, more spacious, but also having rich harmonic "musicality."

At first appearing a little less resolving than Jupiter Copper, the pretty complete resolution was more balanced across the spectrum and "real" sounding to me. More open space, with really good fine detail, revealed nice edge complexity, and immediacy. Fear of hardness that can sometimes come with clearer caps never showed up. Sounding a little like a cross between Audyn Copper Max and Jupiter Coppers, especially after settling with music, I am not at all sure they are less resolving than the Jupiter coppers, perhaps more that they reveal resolution in different ways. Maybe the ways the Jupiter coppers are weighted "warmer" and fuller, especially lower down, contributes to a bit more obvious sense of resolution mids up? But I am all about fine detail complexity, having learned to use it to help solve hardness without warming/dulling effects often chosen to increase "forgiveness"....and I don't wish for more resolution when listening with the Miflex.

For my tweeters, I "bypassed" (more enhanced) some 3.3 Jupiter VTs with 0.22 Miflex Coppers...a nice completion of the VTs here.

0.10s to .022s, I have used quite a few in bypass work in my amp and pre also. Excited, I tried some Miflex poly/coppers I also liked on first impressions, enough not to AB more than liking what they replaced. I need to compare those more analytically, but they stayed in several positions...also good at a pretty rich open complexity and good balance that did not seem to harden the sound. I am using some Miflex aluminum/oils as well, good also. Though useful to me, I have not fallen for them like the coppers, but it has been so long since I compared them, I can't recall exactly why.

Anyway, I too am glad Miflex showed up for us!

Edit: hopefully just the batch, but when I first bought Miflex Copper Oils, I got occasional minor leaks with the heat inside the amp. I found cleaning them well with alcohol and rubbing on some Weldbond glue re-sealed mine nicely. Noticing recently that soniccraft had a bunch in with a nice sale, I have been putting them in my cart, so guess I love them enough not to worry about it!
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: brj on 19 Jul 2019, 09:13 pm
Is the only difference between the Miflex KPCU-01 and -02 the lead configuration?  Spec sheets seem to the be same otherwise...

I'd heard rumblings of a new Polish made copper foil cap a while back, but never really dug into it.  Looks like they've really taken off.  I have the 100V 8 uF Jupiters Copper Foil caps as the only passive component on my tweeters, and never really thought to keep looking after that.  Aside from maybe a Sonicap Platinum or Duelund Silver Foil bypass cap as an experiment.  Most of the comments I've seen have been related to use in components (coupling, etc.) rather than speakers, and I'm not sure I'd want to try and extrapolate from that...
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Jon L on 20 Jul 2019, 02:50 am
Miflex copper seems like an interesting alternative, especially from cost point of view. 
Looks like humblehomemadehifi already compared Miflex copper to Jupiter copper and Duelund Cast Copper..

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jul 2019, 02:29 am
Listening to the Miflex Aluminum now. Really impressed.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 27 Jul 2019, 04:53 pm
Listening to the Miflex Aluminum now. Really impressed.

Yep, Miflex is the real deal :)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mresseguie on 27 Jul 2019, 06:05 pm
Listening to the Miflex Aluminum now. Really impressed.

Are you using these in crossovers or in a component such as a DAC or a preamp?

 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jul 2019, 06:25 pm
Are you using these in crossovers or in a component such as a DAC or a preamp?

Modded JLH-based headphone pre. They sound great out the gate and then get better and better. So good I bought some of the copper too. Stock up now while prices are good or before they stop making them, like what happened with Ampohm.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: mresseguie on 27 Jul 2019, 08:28 pm
Thanks!

I finally pulled the drivers out of my Adelphos speakers to check the caps' values. I'm looking at a 12uF I 250v and a 6.2uF 200VDC. One is an Erse and the other is a Sonicap Generation 1.

Now, under which circumstances would one wish to use the copper or aluminum caps? Also, I notice that neither Sonic Craft nor Danny offers a 200VDC. Could I still use a 600VDC in place of a 200 VDC cap?

Michael
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jul 2019, 08:53 pm
Thanks!

I finally pulled the drivers out of my Adelphos speakers to check the caps' values. I'm looking at a 12uF I 250v and a 6.2uF 200VDC. One is an Erse and the other is a Sonicap Generation 1.

Now, under which circumstances would one wish to use the copper or aluminum caps? Also, I notice that neither Sonic Craft nor Danny offers a 200VDC. Could I still use a 600VDC in place of a 200 VDC cap?

Michael

You'd want to replace the caps to the tweeter. I don't know Jeff's crossover for the Adelphos but I'm guessing the Sonicap is the tweeter cap. That's the one you'd want to replace. 600V will work just fine. Since 6.2uF will be pretty expensive maybe split the difference and combine two caps, 1/2 expensive, half not so expensive. Clarity Cap CSA would make a great inexpensive half that performs better than the Sonicap Gen 1.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Tyson on 27 Jul 2019, 09:43 pm
You'd want to replace the caps to the tweeter. I don't know Jeff's crossover for the Adelphos but I'm guessing the Sonicap is the tweeter cap. That's the one you'd want to replace. 600V will work just fine. Since 6.2uF will be pretty expensive maybe split the difference and combine two caps, 1/2 expensive, half not so expensive. Clarity Cap CSA would make a great inexpensive half that performs better than the Sonicap Gen 1.

I agree, replace the tweeter cap, but the 6uF is only moderately expensive, I'd just get the copper KPCU from Miflex for the tweeter cap.  Bypass it with a .22 KPCU to get you to exactly the 6.2 value.

For the 12uF, I'd recommend getting 2 of the aluminum 6uF caps from Miflex, the KPAL, wired in parallel they'd give a nice improvement on the midrange cap.  You could even get a 0.1 bypass copper KPCU cap to give it a bit of copper flavor (I've done this in the past, it works quite well and sounds very, very good).

Those Sartori drivers in the Adelphos are very nice, you will definitely hear a big improvement using the better caps. 

And 600v is fine.  They are just 'overbuilt' vs the minimum specs for a speaker crossover (ie, thicker wire, higher voltage rating, just generally tougher). 
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Wayne1 on 10 Aug 2019, 07:13 am
Another new entry into the pure copper film cap is Jantzen.

Troels has some comments about the Jantzen Amber-Z-Cap:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AMBER-Z-CAP.htm (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AMBER-Z-CAP.htm)

(http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AMBER-Z/AMBER-Z.PNG)
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: Waterclocker on 24 Aug 2019, 05:56 pm
Hey everyone!  My first post here!

I've been obsessed with capacitors and the improvements they can provide.  I currently have the Alumen Z-Cap in my 8008-Corner speaker build and I'm loving the sound I get from them.  I purchased the Tekton Perfect SET for another listening area, but I think I've been spoiled by the Alumen and 8008.  I'm missing the smooth and refined sound(bass is very good though).  I think I'll try the Alumen on the mid to avoid spending a fortune to get the right value and then use the new Amber Z-Cap on the tweeter.  Troels review of them states subtle differences, so I think they would blend well with each other.  Any thoughts?  I would consider the Miflex, but they are MASSIVE in the values I need if doing the mid and tweeter with them.  I could do the Miflex for the tweeter, but what would pair well for the mids?  The Clarity CMR would also be an option, but I'm looking to go a step above if possible.  Mids are 18uf (Clarity PX) and tweeter looks to be 3-4uf(Mcap EVO) (value glued face down, gotta remove to check :( )
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: ieatsound on 28 Feb 2021, 10:30 pm
what about jantzen amber-z cap?
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: teavml on 18 Jun 2021, 11:18 pm
I am a new forum member and I am starting a new project.  I recently picked up a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10 loudspeakers because they were the speakers that introduced me to hi fi almost 50 years ago.  I loved those speakers in 1973!  Sort of like running into an old sweetheart.  I am going to try and upgrade the crossovers by rebuilding them as best I can with modern components.  I will likely use Sonicaps for most of the capacitors but the crossover base circuit starts with a 80uF cap. and I don't think Sonicaps go that high.  I am trying to figure out what cap manufacturer to use for that big cap.  Any advice would be welcome.
Title: Re: My Capacitor comparisons: Mundorfs, VCap, Sonicap Platinum, Auricap, etc
Post by: willief23 on 16 Jul 2021, 12:33 am
Teavml you could get 2 40uf caps and wire them in parallel(next to each other) and then get the total value of 80uf. sonic gen 1 caps are good for the money but you can also go even higher/better than those. Jantzen Audio Silver Gold Z-Cap and Jantzen Superior Z-Cap would be a few steps up from Sonicraft gen 1 caps for close to the same price. For higher end caps some examples are Miflex kpcu-01 or kpcu-03, Intertechnik Audyn True Copper or Audyn True Copper Max, and Rike Audio Q-CAP are a few really good ones.  Also you can add a very small 0.01uf or 0.10uf bypass Dueland Silver Cap which would add a little more detail to any of the main caps you choose. The dueland silver bypass cap will work best with copper, slightly warm sounding or neutral sounding caps.