Speaker Isolation...Again...

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TJHUB

Speaker Isolation...Again...
« on: 8 Apr 2017, 09:03 pm »
Sorry for asking the question for the millionth time...  :?

I believe I have my audio system as dialed in as its going to get.  I have a great mix of gear, cables, and I haven't changed my speaker positions ior room treatments in months because I'm fraid I'm going to ruin some part of the sound.  That said, I've come to realize that my speakers aren't set on the floor properly.  I'd like to try some things.

Here is a pic of the speaker as it sits now:



The speakers are Salk Sound HT3's.  They weigh about 90lbs, and have a 10" bass driver.  They currently sit on a suspended wood floor with a layer of MDF on top of the normal subfloor.  I have carpet pad and berber carpeting, and I'm using the supplied cones (they are wide and rounded on the bottom) under the plinths.  In this configuration, the speakers can rock in my direction with little effort.  Its as if they are sitting on springs, which I suppose they really are in a way.  I should also note there are only 3 cones screwed to each plinth by design; 2 in the front, and 1 centered in the back.

I researched getting narrow spikes to punch through the carpet and pad to the subfloor, but I read that's likely not best for my situation.  I read isolation might be best, so I've been looking for a cost effective solution.  I have come up with a couple thoughts:

1.  Get some sort of granite slab to lie on top of the carpet, then set the speakers with cones on that.

2.  Get the granite slabs to lie on the carpet, put some sort of Herbies Fat Dots between the granite and plinths without the cones.

3.  Leave the plinths with the current cones on the carpet, and put the Fat Dots between the plinths and the speaker cabinets (sticky version obviously).

4.  Remove the cones from the plinths and just use Giant Sliders between the carpet and the plinths.

5.  ?

I have very nice clarity and imaging, but it could always be better.  I'm looking to tighten up the low bass a bit if possible

Thoughts?

KLH007

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #1 on: 8 Apr 2017, 11:44 pm »
I like #4.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #2 on: 9 Apr 2017, 12:01 am »
If one want more bass dont buy a bigger speaker, just remove the cones and bones and seat the enclosure direct in the carpet, your windows will ratle and hum :thumb:

Randy

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #3 on: 9 Apr 2017, 03:38 am »



Outriggers will stabilize your speakers and provided a cleaner and tighter sound. The photo shows one of my speakers with the stabilizers installed. I put them on the plinth, but you could remove the plinth from your Salks and put the stabilizers on the bottom of the speakers themselves which is what I did with my former speakers. You'd need a large size pair for those HT - 2s.

BTW, I wouldn't put speakers on granite bases, since I've heard that the granite can ring.

max190

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #4 on: 9 Apr 2017, 11:28 am »
5. Remove supplied cones and install Threaded Stud Gliders.

Big Red Machine

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #5 on: 9 Apr 2017, 04:18 pm »
I'm fully down with isolation for speakers versus spikes. Really cleans up the sound. Give it a try.

I replaced my crude foam/rubber pads with Symposium Fat Padz (which look nicer) and am very happy.

Herbie

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #6 on: 9 Apr 2017, 11:21 pm »
Sorry for asking the question for the millionth time...  :?

I believe I have my audio system as dialed in as its going to get.  I have a great mix of gear, cables, and I haven't changed my speaker positions ior room treatments in months because I'm fraid I'm going to ruin some part of the sound.  That said, I've come to realize that my speakers aren't set on the floor properly.  I'd like to try some things.

Here is a pic of the speaker as it sits now:



The speakers are Salk Sound HT3's.  They weigh about 90lbs, and have a 10" bass driver.  They currently sit on a suspended wood floor with a layer of MDF on top of the normal subfloor.  I have carpet pad and berber carpeting, and I'm using the supplied cones (they are wide and rounded on the bottom) under the plinths.  In this configuration, the speakers can rock in my direction with little effort.  Its as if they are sitting on springs, which I suppose they really are in a way.  I should also note there are only 3 cones screwed to each plinth by design; 2 in the front, and 1 centered in the back.

I researched getting narrow spikes to punch through the carpet and pad to the subfloor, but I read that's likely not best for my situation.  I read isolation might be best, so I've been looking for a cost effective solution.  I have come up with a couple thoughts:

1.  Get some sort of granite slab to lie on top of the carpet, then set the speakers with cones on that.

2.  Get the granite slabs to lie on the carpet, put some sort of Herbies Fat Dots between the granite and plinths without the cones.

3.  Leave the plinths with the current cones on the carpet, and put the Fat Dots between the plinths and the speaker cabinets (sticky version obviously).

4.  Remove the cones from the plinths and just use Giant Sliders between the carpet and the plinths.

5.  ?

I have very nice clarity and imaging, but it could always be better.  I'm looking to tighten up the low bass a bit if possible

Thoughts?

Likely a combination of 3 and 4 would work best to isolate the speakers: Big Fat Dots between the plinth and speaker cabinet and regular Threaded Stud Gliders in place of the cones. Usually the most critical interface that will benefit the most from isolation is between the cabinet and plinth; for the cabinet/plinth interface, Big Fat Dots would be ideal. Threaded Stud Gliders in place of the cones would be additionally beneficial, further helping to isolate the speakers from the floor. In addition, Threaded Stud Gliders are height-adjustable for leveling and allow for easy repositioning of the speakers as needed.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm#bigfat
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm#stud

Regards,

Robert Herbelin
Herbie's Audio Lab

Big Red Machine

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #7 on: 10 Apr 2017, 01:14 am »
How would you put them between the speaker and plinth and not crush them? I have heard this recommendation before from others but there must be some rule of thumb to use?

debjit.g

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #8 on: 10 Apr 2017, 03:13 am »
I am also interested to know how to put the fat dots between the speaker and plinth. As far as I know, the plinths are generally screwed to the speaker bottom. Do you put the fat dots between them and still tighten the screws ?

mresseguie

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #9 on: 10 Apr 2017, 03:39 am »
Once the preceding questions have been addressed, I have a follow on question that is related to the thread.

I have two-way monitors mounted on stands. I have the monitors resting on foam rectangles that I feel don't do what the manufacturer claimed the would. Further, the stands (with spikes and disks) rest on thin Berber-like carpet squares. Beneath the carpet is our engineered wood flooring. The surface easily scratches and scars, which my wife does not like!

I would like to know your recommendations to separate the cabinets from the stand plates and the base of the stands from the floor. I found heavy bamboo boards that I'd like to place under the stands in addition to your products (both to improve sonics and to protect my wife's floor!). Oh, yeah. I'd like to remove the foam from the setup.

Michael

jriggy

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #10 on: 10 Apr 2017, 01:08 pm »
My speakers currently rest on a 95 y.o. suspended wooden floor. The space below is somewhat braced and finished, so its not terrible but I did have the typical issues as well as a lil bounce in some parts of the room...

 After researching, here is what I came up with for an affordable option:





Custom sized Herbie's Big Fat Dots, under outrigger bars (with no spike assembly), on top of maple butcher block (that I already had two of) that sits directly on the carpet.

It might not be the "best" option, as Im sure there is something much more expensive that works very well but this worked quite well in my situation. Took away the issues I was hearing using the spiked bars.

Jason

« Last Edit: 10 Apr 2017, 07:40 pm by jriggy »

Big Red Machine

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #11 on: 10 Apr 2017, 02:25 pm »
I like it. :thumb:

Framed flooring reacts much differently than concrete flooring (and I am not an expert). So if it works, then it's a winner.

Herbie

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #12 on: 10 Apr 2017, 02:54 pm »
How would you put them between the speaker and plinth and not crush them? I have heard this recommendation before from others but there must be some rule of thumb to use?
I am also interested to know how to put the fat dots between the speaker and plinth. As far as I know, the plinths are generally screwed to the speaker bottom. Do you put the fat dots between them and still tighten the screws ?

Best sonic results would be to completely decouple and isolate  the speakers with Fat Dots; ideally, you would use Fat Dots free-standing at or near the corners of the speaker cabinet, without screws. With tall tower speakers, sometimes it's beneficial to use the screws just to help prevent the speaker from accidentally toppling over. In such a case, tightening the screws just snug or finger tight would be sufficient. The more you tighten the screws, the more you'll be subtracting from the benefit of the Fat Dots by re-coupling the speaker cabinet and its vibrations to the plinth.

Once the preceding questions have been addressed, I have a follow on question that is related to the thread.

I have two-way monitors mounted on stands. I have the monitors resting on foam rectangles that I feel don't do what the manufacturer claimed the would. Further, the stands (with spikes and disks) rest on thin Berber-like carpet squares. Beneath the carpet is our engineered wood flooring. The surface easily scratches and scars, which my wife does not like!

I would like to know your recommendations to separate the cabinets from the stand plates and the base of the stands from the floor. I found heavy bamboo boards that I'd like to place under the stands in addition to your products (both to improve sonics and to protect my wife's floor!). Oh, yeah. I'd like to remove the foam from the setup.

Michael

Hi, Michael. The most tried-and-true isolation setup for stand-mounted speakers is to use four Square Fat Dots between the stand's top plate and the bottom of the speaker cabinet, and Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders underneath the stand's spikes (or, Threaded Stud Gliders in place of spikes altogether). This setup provides a sufficient level of isolation to allow the speakers to perform with more of their inherent potential, allows for easy repositioning of the speakers as needed to dial in the best stereo imaging, and protects the floors from being scratched or marred by the stock spikes.

Regards,

Robert Herbelin
Herbie's Audio Lab

mresseguie

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #13 on: 10 Apr 2017, 05:12 pm »
Robert,

Thank you.

I'll be in touch with you soon.

Michael

mresseguie

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #14 on: 10 Apr 2017, 05:15 pm »
My speakers currently rest on a 95 y.o. suspended wooden floor. The space below is somewhat braced and finished, so its not terrible but I did the typical issues as well as a lil bounce in some parts of the room...

 After researching, here is what I came up with for an affordable option:





Custom sized Herbie's Big Fat Dots, under outrigger bars (with no spike assembly), on top of maple butcher block (that I already had two of) that sits directly on the carpet.

It might not be the "best" option, as Im sure there is something much more expensive that works very well but this worked quite well in my situation. Took away the issues I was hearing using the sided bars.

Jason

Nice looking speakers, Jason.  :thumb:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #15 on: 10 Apr 2017, 06:14 pm »

Wow superb enclosure, impressive wood work, congratulations :thumb:

jriggy

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #16 on: 10 Apr 2017, 10:01 pm »
Thanks guys! And Im sure Lou would say "thank you" as well, for the compliments of his fine speakers. My pair truly are gorgeous.


max190

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #17 on: 10 Apr 2017, 10:46 pm »
So where is TJ :?:

TJHUB

Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #18 on: 10 Apr 2017, 11:22 pm »
So where is TJ :?:

I'm here.  I'm just not certain what I want to try. 

debjit.g

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Re: Speaker Isolation...Again...
« Reply #19 on: 11 Apr 2017, 04:34 am »
Best sonic results would be to completely decouple and isolate  the speakers with Fat Dots; ideally, you would use Fat Dots free-standing at or near the corners of the speaker cabinet, without screws. With tall tower speakers, sometimes it's beneficial to use the screws just to help prevent the speaker from accidentally toppling over. In such a case, tightening the screws just snug or finger tight would be sufficient. The more you tighten the screws, the more you'll be subtracting from the benefit of the Fat Dots by re-coupling the speaker cabinet and its vibrations to the plinth.



Thanks Robert. I currently have "Threaded Stud Glider" under the plinth and my speaker is about 150lb sitting on suspended wooden floor over concrete. Does the fat dots between the speaker and plinth provide additional benefits of isolation ? In case it does, can I use thin fat dots instead ? Alternatively, if I upgrade to the "Giant Threaded Stud Glider" under the plinth, would the fat dots be still beneficial ?