AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: neekomax on 26 Aug 2011, 07:04 pm

Title: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 26 Aug 2011, 07:04 pm
So, my pair has been shipped today, and I'm psyched!  :D

The design is really cool... Stereo active bass from 8" sealed subs powered by 300w plate amps, along with coaxial 5.5" midrange/tweeter drivers in their own enclosure, for better off axis response and room interaction in and out of the sweetspot. All in a monitor form factor, which should better suit my smallish room. They are also capable of driving passive subs, if that's something I want to use in the future. But really, it's all about not having to place a sub in the first place, and dual subs reduce standing waves etc...

AJ has built a pair in maple with white baffles for me, which I requested as I like to limit the number of black boxes in my somewhat mod decor (Actually wanted all white, but the paint job would have been $$$)

These will replace my current speaker, Definitive Technology towers which never really worked for me. Hopefully I can get some of my money back on eBay. Good news is I got them as open box deals, so I don't have to recuperate a ton of cash.

Apparently, I am customer #2... Anyone else got these coming?

Here are some photos that AJ sent while he was QC testing them...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50518)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50519)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50520)


 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Douger on 28 Aug 2011, 03:23 am
Good looking and very interesting concept. Congratulations!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: JDUBS on 28 Aug 2011, 04:41 am
Any info on these?  The webpage was pretty sparse.

-Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 28 Aug 2011, 04:48 am
Any info on these?  The webpage was pretty sparse.

-Jim

If you read this thread, you can get some more detailed information from AJ, who builds them: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91026.60 (You can skip to page four for the nitty gritty, or read the whole thing, kind of tells the story)

They are a brand new product, so I think he's working on the website concurrently with the first orders.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 28 Aug 2011, 07:00 am
This is the first time I'm discovering these things. I want to learn more about them, but I always liked the idea of a monitor with balls.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 28 Aug 2011, 07:17 pm
Neeko, that's the last time I'll send you a pic of the disaster that used to be my living room :oops: :lol:.

One quick note, due to warranty issues, the slave output off the amplifiers is not an option right now, until further notice.
I've got my fingers crossed that they get to you in one piece, despite the rather auspicious start to shipping product....during a hurricane. :duh:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 28 Aug 2011, 07:18 pm
Any info on these?  The webpage was pretty sparse.

-Jim

Hi Jim,

I've updated the site a bit, but if you have any questions, you can e-mail me at soundfield (preferred), or pm me here. Thnx
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: tesseract on 28 Aug 2011, 07:35 pm
So AJ, your first customers appear to be... AUDIOPHILES!!!    :rotflmao:  Good luck with your new venture, man.


Neekomax, enjoy buddy. Can't wait to hear your impressions.





Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 28 Aug 2011, 07:47 pm
This is the first time I'm discovering these things. I want to learn more about them, but I always liked the idea of a monitor with balls.
I had a chance to listen to them extensively at the Capital Audiofest and was very impressed.  Dynamic!  Played all types of music with aplomb.  I'm sending from my phone so I'll write more when I get home.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 28 Aug 2011, 07:51 pm
Cool design!  One of those "Why didn't someone think of that before" architectures...feed us feedback ASAP!

Duke of AudioKinesis is competing against an ultra-high end studio design right now with similar architecture (triamped, $9k/pair).  Funny how things like this pop up at the same time, kind of like a cough spreading through the room! 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: tesseract on 28 Aug 2011, 09:06 pm
Wow, stickied!

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 28 Aug 2011, 09:23 pm
I hope for much, much more thorough info on the website. The quoted comments on the homepage are intriguing.

Looking forward to impressions guys. These look neat.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Tyson on 28 Aug 2011, 09:53 pm
After living with a good coax speaker for a while now, I can't ever go back to physically separated drivers.  I think part of the reason why the "single driver" folks hate multi-way speakers so much is the lack of coherence that physically separated midrange and high frequency drivers exhibit.  Coax's are a way, IMO, to have your cake and eat it too - extended range coupled with outstanding coherence.  Glad to see someone making very well thought-out speakers like this!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 28 Aug 2011, 09:58 pm
I really like my GR-Insignia speakers. They are a co-ax and I like them. Although I've just ordered Magnepan MMG's and plan at this point to have them Gunn'd for my stereo system, once I complete that little adventure I think I might take a look at these Soundfield's for the living room as mains, and maybe use my GR-Insignia's as surrounds.

 Lots of new and exciting options available all around. Looking forward to developments on these Monitor 1's with interest.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 28 Aug 2011, 10:46 pm
Wow, stickied!
Almost thought it was Galactic Wastebinned....whew :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 28 Aug 2011, 10:51 pm
Cool design!  One of those "Why didn't someone think of that before" architectures...feed us feedback ASAP!

Duke of AudioKinesis is competing against an ultra-high end studio design right now with similar architecture (triamped, $9k/pair).  Funny how things like this pop up at the same time, kind of like a cough spreading through the room!
Now just to be clear James, these are not fully active (tri-amped), but passive 2 way with active bottom, so one can still use their cherished main amp. Similar to the old Infinity Overture 1's. You do need outlets to plug the power amps into, but they accept speaker level inputs on the rear, just like a passive speaker.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 28 Aug 2011, 11:07 pm
Thanks, AJ, and congrats on a what appears to be a fine job!

Yes, I knew about the differences, and sorry I may have confused readers by mentioning the Barefoot Pro triamp monitors.  The main similarity is that you're both employing smaller monitors with powered bass drivers.  (For motorcycle fanatics, Barefoot employs the frames of the dual opposed 10" subs as cabinet braces...reminding me of motorcycles such as BMW's oil-head boxer twin that employs the engine as a stressed frame member.)   

Your design makes pure sense for audiophiles, who often cherish their particular amp.  Affordable digital amps are not my cuppa tea for mid/treble, but are absolutely perfect for the bass where musicality is of minimal concern, but high power/high current/low cost/low current draw and low heat are high concerns.  Good on ya! 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 28 Aug 2011, 11:14 pm
"oil-head"? Could you elaborate please, James? PM if necessary.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 29 Aug 2011, 01:52 am
Would love to get in on the discussion, but we just got walloped by Irene and have been without power for the last day. Even the cellular data network is pretty much totally down. Hopefully back online tomorrow... :(
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Aug 2011, 01:54 am
BMW "boxer" motors are flat twins whose pistons move simultaneously in the same direction, hence the term "boxer".  The originals are "air-cooled" 2-valve, and I'm guessing the first of these go back to pre-WWII (the first and only BMW to win at Daytona, where they finished 1-2, co-builder of the Daytona winning bikes is named Ken Augustine and he did some motorcycle work for me in San Rafael, where strangely enough his shop has the name "Kinetic" in it ala AudioKinesis), the later oil heads arrived in the mid-late 80s, which of course have oil cooled 4-valve heads and an oil cooler.  The difference in the technology between the motors is night and day.

Now I return your computer to the normally scheduled transmission... 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Aug 2011, 02:02 am
Would love to get in on the discussion, but we just got walloped by Irene and have been without power for the last day. Even the cellular data network is pretty much totally down. Hopefully back online tomorrow... :(

Hang in there Neeko. Forget speakers and take care of the important stuff. Best wishes to all those affected by this storm. Really made a mess going up the coast.

regards,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Duke on 29 Aug 2011, 02:07 am
Very well thought-out topology, congrats on obviousy getting the details right, judging by the listener comments.

Just visited your website; I expected the price to be three times what you're charging.   You are offering a superb value, AJ.  I hope the marketplace rewards you for it.

Duke
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 29 Aug 2011, 02:10 am
Thanks AJ. Focusing on getting meals together with only a grill. Have a generator, but it won't start  :duh: 

Makes me appreciate the ease with which we live and comforts we normally have.

And the speakers will get here when they get here :)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: JDUBS on 29 Aug 2011, 03:41 am
Hi Jim,

I've updated the site a bit, but if you have any questions, you can e-mail me at soundfield (preferred), or pm me here. Thnx

Very cool.  I love the concept!  :thumb:

-Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Aug 2011, 04:36 pm
Again: Definitely a design that makes one wonder why we haven't been buying and listening to it for years already.  I suppose one reason is the more recent widespread availability of lower cost plate amps with built-in Xo to the DIY community.  I could see this becoming a great industry trend if not maybe even a standard.  Let us now officially christen this (powered bass/passive mid/treble) the "AJ" topology...or insert better label here.  Your philosophy has much better potential for success and acceptance in high-end than fully powered monitors.  In pro audio fully powered makes some sense because higher SPL is more desirable.  In high-end, we likes our favorite amps for mid/treble much more than low cost digital amps for this range.  Smart!

So AJ (sorry if covered elsewhere): is there a passive high-pass mid crossover?  What is low-pass bass pole?  Is low-pass bass pole tunable? 

Also, kudos for highlighting the bass-mode flattening power of employing a sum total four bass sources in the room (your two speakers + two subs).  As you mention, the mains in this case, the SFAM1, should absolutely run the powered bass driver full range and NOT be high-passed, resulting in more smoothing effect of the bass modes.  This is anti-intuitive for audiophiles not familiar with this technology, which Duke has long espoused and promoted.

Two bass sources attached to the mains results in less smoothing than  locations other than the mains (IOW four discrete subs), but there is still great potential benefit.  I'll send a PM that may help in dual sub placement with your apparently fantastic new speakers.     
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: bummrush on 29 Aug 2011, 05:09 pm
I think you came out ahead with just the white front.  It goes perfect with the light colored wood
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 29 Aug 2011, 05:24 pm
James, I don't follow you.  Are you saying not to high pass the mids (or coax in this case) or not to high pass the bass drivers? 

I don't have SAM1's but in my speakers I high pass my monitors at 150hz and use subs to cover frequencies from 150hz on down.  The system sounds much better than it did when I was running the monitors full range. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Aug 2011, 05:24 pm
Very well thought-out topology, congrats on obviousy getting the details right, judging by the listener comments.
Just visited your website; I expected the price to be three times what you're charging.   You are offering a superb value, AJ.  I hope the marketplace rewards you for it.

Duke

Thanks Duke. I'm staying clear of the studio guys for right now, don't think they would want a passive/active like this, though the closest thing to these might be the $9k ( :o) Genelecs.
I see you are locked in mortal combat with some heavy hitters in the studio :wink:.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Aug 2011, 05:45 pm
Again: Definitely a design that makes one wonder why we haven't been buying and listening to it for years already.  I suppose one reason is the more recent widespread availability of lower cost plate amps with built-in Xo to the DIY community.  I could see this becoming a great industry trend if not maybe even a standard.  Let us now officially christen this (powered bass/passive mid/treble) the "AJ" topology...or insert better label here.

Hi James,

That would be a huge stretch, given the Infinity Overture 1's and even Neeko's DefTechs, which feature powered subs. The niche I wanted to fill, is what I've seen in about a 1000 threads, something along the lines small/bookshelf that doesn't need a sub...followed by 1000 responses of "try this 5.25 - 6.5 inch 2 way"...huh??? :) How on earth is a 6.5" driver going to displace the necessary air for subwoofer frequencies? (physically impossible). Why would you want you midrange driver producing those sort of excursions? (you don't :wink:).
So that's it. A speaker that answers that question. Nothing special. Basic physics.

Your philosophy has much better potential for success and acceptance in high-end than fully powered monitors.  In pro audio fully powered makes some sense because higher SPL is more desirable.  In high-end, we likes our favorite amps for mid/treble much more than low cost digital amps for this range.  Smart!
The former...we'll see, the latter absolutely.

So AJ (sorry if covered elsewhere): is there a passive high-pass mid crossover?  What is low-pass bass pole?  Is low-pass bass pole tunable? 
Yes (200hz). 200hz. Yes, though inadvisable. The plate amp is an "off the shelf" unit that has all the controls, none of which should be required other than setting the level to match the main amp.

Also, kudos for highlighting the bass-mode flattening power of employing a sum total four bass sources in the room (your two speakers + two subs).  As you mention, the mains in this case, the SFAM1, should absolutely run the powered bass driver full range and NOT be high-passed, resulting in more smoothing effect of the bass modes.  This is anti-intuitive for audiophiles not familiar with this technology, which Duke has long espoused and promoted.

Two bass sources attached to the mains results in less smoothing than  locations other than the mains (IOW four discrete subs), but there is still great potential benefit.  I'll send a PM that may help in dual sub placement with your apparently fantastic new speakers.     
Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for it. And yes, I have already advised on additional subs placed around the room for spatial smoothing over a wider area, though I also explained that for single seat listener, eq will work fine too (though it cannot fill holes)...if needed.
I've got some other tricks up the sleeve to come, WRT modal issues...and practicality.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Big Red Machine on 29 Aug 2011, 05:57 pm
I'm confused.  For a pair are there powered woofers in each speaker?  Where is the powered woofer in the cabinet and it's output?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Aug 2011, 06:02 pm
James, I don't follow you.  Are you saying not to high pass the mids (or coax in this case) or not to high pass the bass drivers? 

I don't have SAM1's but in my speakers I high pass my monitors at 150hz and use subs to cover frequencies from 150hz on down.  The system sounds much better than it did when I was running the monitors full range.

Jackman,
Two completely separate issues, sorry for confusing them.  I'd estimate the mid in AJ's system might be preferred with high-pass mid-range crossover.  Conversely though, I once heard a 10" sealed 3-way with absolutely no crossover on the 5" mid that sounded great, and have read of at least one other similar design.

Separately, on AJ's active bass driver: audiophiles would be wrong to add a high-pass filter on the active bass driver if/when adding subs.  There is huge smoothing of the room's bass modes running AJ's active bass driver full range, as is, when adding any number of subs. 

With four bass drivers in the room (2x AJ, 2x subs), theoretically, and I'm 99.999% positive in this case, one of the bass drivers should absolutely be inverted.  And the best one to invert is the one resulting in the least overall perceived bass, which results from and indicates the greatest smoothing of bass modes in the room.  Wordsmith Duke calls this "Deconstructive Interference".  Whatever slight bit of power might be lost (about zero with four bass drivers) in the lowermost or lowest half octave is hugely overshadowed by the smoothing effect from 40-150Hz, exactly the range AJ mentioned earlier above. 

If only one sub is added (3 total bass drivers), per Duke, Earl Geddes' and Todd Welti, one of the three subs should be above ear level, in this case that would obviously be the solo sub, unless AJ's bass driver is normally above ear level (doubtful).  This height requirement does not apply to four subs but rather only three. 

In the case of 3 subs, the decision to invert one bass driver must be balanced by the positive smoothing effect of the bass modes vs. potential lowermost or lowest half octave power loss.  In this case inverting one sub inverts 1/3rd the bass output while with four bass drivers only 1/4 the output is inverted.         

I sent a PM to AJ with my original Golden Ratio siting instructions for four solo subs.  It may be old news to him.  AJ may modify the instructions to apply to users employing his two main speakers and adding either one or two subs.  It's really cool that users can toss together even a passive sub and power it with his plate amp!  It's important to note that matched high-Q subs will provide much less bass smoothing effect than low-Q or non-matched high-Q subs.   

At a show Duke and I did last December, following my siting instructions, after setup Duke made adjustments for only about 90 seconds with no acoustic treatment and we never 2nd guessed the sound after that.  It was some of the best sound I've ever heard.  I heard absolutely no resonant bass modes all day.     
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: srb on 29 Aug 2011, 06:16 pm
It's really cool that users can toss together even a passive sub and power it with his plate amp!

I thought from AJ's earlier post in this topic that the passive slave output was not an option at this time:
 
One quick note, due to warranty issues, the slave output off the amplifiers is not an option right now, until further notice.

Steve
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Aug 2011, 06:25 pm
Hi James,

That would be a huge stretch, given the Infinity Overture 1's and even Neeko's DefTechs, which feature powered subs.

Oh, drats, forgot about the Infinity and I just read about it within the last month or so...the joy of approaching senior discounts (that's senior, not senor...oh well, with Mexico reclaiming the west, maybe both).   

I'm sure any speaker with powered bass and passive high-range was less-well implemented than yours, and cost at least twice as much!   

Quote
The niche I wanted to fill, is what I've seen in about a 1000 threads,  something along the lines small/bookshelf that doesn't need a  sub...followed by 1000 responses of "try this 5.25 - 6.5 inch 2  way"...huh??? :)  How on earth is a 6.5" driver going to displace the necessary air for  subwoofer frequencies? (physically impossible). Why would you want you  midrange driver producing those sort of excursions? (you don't ;) ).

Duke and I get a kick out of speaker marketers and audiophooles subscribing to and promoting the idea of "small, super lightweight" bass drivers for "quicker response".  This is so dumb.  It's like replacing the low-E string on your guitar with a high E string and predicting better sound quality.  Earth to audiophile: mass is required for 58 foot long wavelengths!  Another analogy: I'm betting every penny I have on this lightning fast super bantam weight to beat Tyson in his prime (before he started eating lunch in the ring).  Now the problem is the bantam is 5' tall, so Tyson just holds one hand out to space the bantam from Tyson's other hand while the bantam swings at the air with lightning speed, then Tyson connects with his loose hand one time and the bantam lands four zip codes away.  It's like designing a diesel motor with a power band like a 2-stroke.  Why?     
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Tyson on 29 Aug 2011, 06:36 pm
James you are so right - I am convinced that many people just don't like the sound of real bass :)   Low bass if full, powerful, and it undulates.  Upper and mid bass should be punchy, but low bass should by labyrinthine.

Also, I'm not a boxer, but I am in my prime :P
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 29 Aug 2011, 06:39 pm
I am convinced that many people just don't like the sound of real bass :) 

No truer words have been spoken...   :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Aug 2011, 07:08 pm
Mike, I mean Tyson...

What concentric speaker ya'll sleepin' wit in da ghheto lately?   :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Aug 2011, 09:14 pm

I thought from AJ's earlier post in this topic that the passive slave output was not an option at this time:
 
Steve

Yes, that is correct. The slave output will have to be different, to prevent someone from accidentally plugging bananas or bare wire from their main amp into the output terminals. That would not be good!
It was the easiest method to use the existing banana terminals on the plate amp, but not the safest. I will come up with a proprietary scheme for connecting to the slave output. It's still in the mix.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 29 Aug 2011, 10:27 pm
Hi James,
I agree with you on the bass driver and the high pass.  I thought you were refering to the mid driver not needing a high pass.  I have a system that uses monitors crossed over to subwoofers built into the stands.  I originally ran my monitors full range with the subs but it sounds much better with a 150hz high pass filter on the monitors (recommended by the speaker designer).  After owning speakers with active (adjustable) subwoofers, I could never go back to traditional passive full range speakers.  How do people who own full range, passive speakers, dial in the bass?   :scratch:

Your comments about small 2-way monitors with "great bass" made me chuckle in agreement with you.  I love reading about compact 2-way monitors with 6.5" or smaller woofers that produce "deep bass" in the "I estimate it is at least 25hz" range, and play high spl's, with at least 95dB sensitivity, oh, and with really good midrange response.  That's not asking too much of a 6.5" driver, right?   :thumb:

Of course, I'm not talking about the Soundfield Audio Monitors in my comments above.  I've never heard these speakers but they appear to be well constructed/designed, and they have real woofers.  It's a very clever idea and I like the active sub/passive concentric driver combo and compact size of the cabinets.  Also, although I think you can get really great sound with traditional tweeter/midrange arrangement, the concentric driver is pretty cool looking, and probably very coherent, and doesn't take up as much baffle space as traditional separate drivers- which works is a good thing when baffle space is limited.  I hope to hear these someday and wish the OP the best of luck with his new company. 

Cheers,

Jack
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Tyson on 29 Aug 2011, 10:40 pm
Mike, I mean Tyson...

What concentric speaker ya'll sleepin' wit in da ghheto lately?   :lol:

Running the GR Research V2's, fully active, built them myself -

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/V2%20Build/IMG_1528.jpg)
(http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/V2%20Build/?action-view&current=IMG_1528.jpg)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Cacophonix on 29 Aug 2011, 11:11 pm
From the pics, i could not see where the speaker terminals are located  :scratch:
I'm assuming that the BASH powers only the woofer, and has no connection to the coaxial driver.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 29 Aug 2011, 11:31 pm
Without seeing the speakers, the following makes sense: the same speaker-level input feeds the passive mid/treble and for convenience, a speaker-level to line-level attenuator for the amp input.  Such step-down attenuators are transparent to feed a bass amp and no need for picky audiophiles to be concerned about signal degradation for the bass range (arguable for mid-treble, but not bass).

There's no reason I can think of to justify the cost of a separate input for passive mid/treble and bass amp, in fact, conversely, it would add unnecessary trouble and complexity and cost for no net gain whatsoever.   

Some prefer the above signal path because it results in the same signature to the bass and mid/treble.  I don't have any opinion about that.

Mike, I mean Tyson, I'd love to hear the GR's one day  :D         
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 30 Aug 2011, 12:29 am
Damn James, you're on the money. That is exactly correct, the speaker terminals branch to parallel circuits for the passive filter and the line attenuator for the amp (no different from the parallel legs of a 3 way XO). This scheme requires only a single input and no secondary line out for the sub amp (which IMO, has the greater potential for loops and possible signal degradation).

cheers,

AJ

btw, just got home, so I'll check out your e-mail. Thnx
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: EDS_ on 30 Aug 2011, 01:31 am
Hello AJ,

1. Do you have webpage up?
2. If not where is the best place to find stats, measurements etc.?  I think there is a thread or part of a thread that I keep missing.

Thx,

Ed


ETA - head buried in azz, I looked carefully at a pic. answering 1/2 of my questions.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: tesseract on 30 Aug 2011, 01:47 am
Here you go, EDS_. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98017.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91026.0
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 30 Aug 2011, 02:21 am
Almost thought it was Galactic Wastebinned....whew :lol:

No worries AJ, you're doing a good job of just answering questions asked about your product and not adding any ad copy to your posts.  This is exactly how a manufacturer is suppose to behave on the open forums.  However I'm allowed to add a blurb that having met AJ, he's as nice to deal with in person as he is on the forum.

As far as the sticky goes, I just returned from a Hurricane vacation (long story, but the jist is I drove into the hurricane rather than away from it) where we had no internet, spotty electricity, and posted with cell phones that had only poor quality wi-fi.  So I'm not the one who stickied the thread, but lets leave it here for a spell and see what happens.   
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: EDS_ on 30 Aug 2011, 02:34 am
Here you go, EDS_. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98017.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91026.0

Thank you!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: eclein on 30 Aug 2011, 03:44 am
How are these for nearfield listening?? So I have a Virtue TWO.2 amp so it would just power everything except the 8" woofer right, am I seeing this concept correctly?? and the built in plate amp does the woofers right?

I'm semi new, so I have questions, how do you connect speaker wire, good old fashion bare wire, two connections...how do you get the signal from the amp to the plate amp and then the speakers using the one amp I'm bring into this situation???
This is a fantastic idea if its what I'm thinking>>>>>
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 30 Aug 2011, 01:25 pm
How are these for nearfield listening??
Very good I hope. :D
The beauty of a coincident driver like this coax, is that it is essentially a "point source". It doesn't have a design axis integration issue like a multi point speaker.
At any position away from the speaker, you are essentially the same distance away from both mid & tweeter. Nearfield, midfield, farfield, all the same. The only difference is the speakers(any) interaction with the room. The nearer you are, the less so.
You will hear a much higher direct field ratio to reverberant the closer you get.

So I have a Virtue TWO.2 amp so it would just power everything except the 8" woofer right, am I seeing this concept correctly?? and the built in plate amp does the woofers right?
Correct.

I'm semi new, so I have questions, how do you connect speaker wire, good old fashion bare wire, two connections...how do you get the signal from the amp to the plate amp and then the speakers using the one amp I'm bring into this situation???
This is a fantastic idea if its what I'm thinking>>>>>

As noted earlier, the plate amp and mid/tweeter XO input branches are wired in parallel off (one pair of) the rear speaker terminals on the amp. I added a pic to the website gallery.

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/AJinFLA/Soundfield%20Monitor%201/Bash.jpg)

The right speaker terminals (which would be upper on the upright speaker) without the little caps (so you can see the gold plated jacks) are what you would plug bananas (plugs, not the fruit :D) into. These also unscrew so that the bare wires you refer to, can be inserted...no different than just about every banana type terminal on the back of most speakers.


Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 30 Aug 2011, 01:35 pm
I'm confused.  For a pair are there powered woofers in each speaker?  Where is the powered woofer in the cabinet and it's output?

Sorry I missed this earlier Big Red. Yes, there is an sub amplifier (300w) on the rear of each cabinet. The 8" sub is the driver underneath the 5" coaxial (mid/tweeter)  in the pic.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: eclein on 30 Aug 2011, 03:26 pm
These sound great I bet---good luck with it. For $1000 I might jump on these if I had the cash....that seems very reasonable to me. I'll keep following this thread...... :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 30 Aug 2011, 10:37 pm
SAM1 shipping update:

They have made it to New Jersey. Surprisingly, they are listed as scheduled for on time delivery. Tomorrow.

No damn hurricane can stop theses mighty monitors! :weights:

Also, I now have power, cable, and all that good stuff. Yay.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 31 Aug 2011, 06:19 pm
I had the pleasure of hearing these speakers at CAF.  Regardless of price or size, they were some of the best I heard that day. :thumb:

If I hadn't just bought speakers not long ago, I would have placed my order that day! :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 31 Aug 2011, 06:37 pm
I had the pleasure of hearing these speakers at CAF.  Regardless of price or size, they were some of the best I heard that day. :thumb:

If I hadn't just bought speakers not long ago, I would have placed my order that day! :D

Wow, judging from the type of gear they had out there, that is very high praise indeed.

Hope you're right  :wink:

Got word that the speakers have been delivered. Pretty pumped, and also very impressed that Fed Ex ground didn't even have a day's delay because of the hurricane. Pretty unbelievable, really.

Will have them ready to set up in about 3 hours. Hooray for sound!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 31 Aug 2011, 06:54 pm
Wow, judging from the type of gear they had out there, that is very high praise indeed.

Hope you're right  :wink:

Got word that the speakers have been delivered. Pretty pumped, and also very impressed that Fed Ex ground didn't even have a day's delay because of the hurricane. Pretty unbelievable, really.

Will have them ready to set up in about 3 hours. Hooray for sound!

Hey congrats!  I'm looking forward to your comments once you get them up and running.  This is a very cool and interesting design and I hope to hear them someday. 

I still can't figure out how he can sell these (active bass, concentric driver from KEF, in a nice cabinet) for $1K without losing money.   :scratch:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 31 Aug 2011, 07:01 pm
Hey congrats!  I'm looking forward to your comments once you get them up and running.  This is a very cool and interesting design and I hope to hear them someday. 

I still can't figure out how he can sell these (active bass, concentric driver from KEF, in a nice cabinet) for $1K without losing money.   :scratch:

Thanks J.

Um, I tried to quickly run the rough numbers, and unless he's getting some serious wholesale parts action (which I kind of doubt), there is little to no profit at this price. I don't think you could build them for less.

I think the price will be going up sooner than later, unless AJ is the new chairman of Speakers for Humanity :lol:.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 31 Aug 2011, 07:03 pm
 
I still can't figure out how he can sell these (active bass, concentric driver from KEF, in a nice cabinet) for $1K without losing money.   :scratch:
I knock off liquor stores and rob banks in my spare time.

Neeko, I too am pretty amazed Fed Ex came through so quickly. My biggest worry...did they arrive unscathed/ in one piece. Guess we'll see.

regards,

AJ

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: launche on 31 Aug 2011, 08:54 pm
I will never understand how audiophiles think.  Someone brings a product to market at a reasonable cost (however and whatever their business plan may be) and you get audiophiles crying charge me more.  In these tough economic times I can't wrap my head around it.  People out of work, homeless, audiophiles selling gear to pay bills and still a mentality of the overpriced gear worship hi-fi culture that may just be cutting the hobby off at the knees.

Good for you AJ and I hope all goes well and you can get these in the hands of many people who will appreciate your efforts.  What's the point in having a good product if only a few will get to enjoy it.  I hope you sell 200 of them at this price as opposed to 10 if you decided to charge double just because. 

FWIW, at your price AJ if I needed speakers I'd be giving them a listen for certain.  Who knows I may even still find a reason.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Tyson on 31 Aug 2011, 09:15 pm
Most audiophile products are just re-dressing (prettifying) of standard designs and common approaches.  It's very rare that something is actually engineered or designed fundamentally better.  IMO, the design approach illustrated here is not only different, it's also better.  I hope you sell a ton of these.  Heck, I'd buy a pair if I had room for a 2nd system in my home.

Are you going to be at RMAF?  I'd love to hear these beauties in the flesh.  Or are you considering partnering with another manufacturer (say a tube amp maker) to let them use a pair in their room?  Seems like an ideal speaker to use w/ tube amps in particular, given the integrated powered sub - a tube amp would only be driving the relatively easy mids/highs, which really lets them shine.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: srb on 31 Aug 2011, 09:17 pm
The regular price after the "introductory" period is $1300.  I assume this price would allow a reasonable but lean profit and allow him to stay in business.  Advertising is a necessary cost to any business.  Introductory pricing is just another form of advertising that allows each chunk of advertising dollars to directly generate a guaranteed sale.  This advertising cost is a higher percentage per unit than one would normally be comfortable with, but as far as cash flow, it's pay-as-you-go.
 
Once enough units are sold to create a buzz, generate reviews and create some word of mouth advertising, the price will be fairly adjusted.  Sounds like a sound business plan that's previously worked for others.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 31 Aug 2011, 10:02 pm
Jeeze guys, I meant it as a compliment.  Not trying to get this guy to raise his prices or to imply that $1,000 is a small amount of money (it's a lot of money for me and most people I know!).  I was merely pointing out this is a clever design at a very impressive price-point.  Don't know how they sound and I don't know if I would even like them, but they appear to be a very good value. 

The designer seems like a good guy and I sincerely wish him luck in his venture.  Hopefully, the exposure on AC will help launch a very  successful business! 

Lastly, I secretly (or not so secretly now that I'm mentioning it) hope the early adopters of this speaker don't feel the need to mention it in every post like some of the owners of another popular waveguide speaker (er...Geddes).  It's one thing to like your speakers but some of those guys are cult-like and creapy. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: JDUBS on 31 Aug 2011, 10:06 pm
Lastly, I secretly (or not so secretly now that I'm mentioning it) hope the early adopters of this speaker don't feel the need to mention it in every post like some of the owners of another popular waveguide speaker (er...Geddes).  It's one thing to like your speakers but some of those guys are cult-like and creapy. :thumb:

Ha!!   :lol:

-Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Cacophonix on 31 Aug 2011, 10:18 pm
Lastly, I secretly (or not so secretly now that I'm mentioning it) hope the early adopters of this speaker don't feel the need to mention it in every post like some of the owners of another popular waveguide speaker (er...Geddes).  It's one thing to like your speakers but some of those guys are cult-like and creapy. :thumb:

And i hope AJ doesn't feel the need to double/triple the price just to curb demand  :lol: ;)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 31 Aug 2011, 11:36 pm
Well, the eagles have landed.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50699)

They're up on stands now and playing beautiful music!


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50700)

Got 'em set up and called AJ to go over a few setup details. He was a little surprised to hear me describe my current setup... the speakers are only about 5.5 feet apart, 2' feet from the back wall, and I'm sitting only about 6 feet back. So I guess I'm listening in what you might call a nearfield setup. He didn't seem to think that the speakers are far apart enough, but right now, that's what I got. And you know what it is I got?

A big, groovin' smile  :D

Setup, shmetup. These things sound good. Already waaaaaay better than what I had before in the same spot with the same electronics. I know that doesn't mean much to those who want detailed listening notes, but to me.... it means a lot   :).

It's the kind of smooth, natural sound that makes me want to turn it up. I had the opposite 'on edge' feeling when my old speakers were playing.

I actually pulled the bass amps gains down a bit, from 12:00 (AJ's default) to about 11:00. I will do an RTS measurement to check this, but right now, I've got smooth, full, melodious bass for days.   

As you might imagine, I'm not trying to write a full review in the first hour, but rather just follow up and let y'all know that it sounds pretty promising.

(And rock the f*ck on, Fed Ex! You came through on this one.  :wink:)
 

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 31 Aug 2011, 11:48 pm
Listening to some rock...

Acoustic guitars on 'Stranger Things Have Happened' by Foo Fighters are very good. Full and rich, just the right shimmer.

I think we're onto something...


Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 1 Sep 2011, 12:18 am
AJ was definitely right to mention that Infinity, DefTech, and likely others made prior speakers with active bass/passive mid and/or treble.....bbbbb-bbbuttt......

I don't think anyone ever did it quite like this: a just-right size stand-mount 3-way with concentric mid/treble, with the active/passive split at 200 Hz.  It's just too good! 

IIRC all prior smallish active/passive speakers are measly 2-ways with the split way up at the normal 2-way pole between 1.8kHz and 2.5kHz.  In such case a huge chunk of the mid-range is reproduced by the on-board active amp rather than owner's own sweet little amp as is the case with AJ's apparent masterpiece.

They look good.  Probably deserving of stand quality you'd find with $3k+/pair monitors. What is each speaker weight?  Considering the 300W powered 8" they might benefit from clamping or at least good spikes.   

 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 1 Sep 2011, 12:23 am
Jeeze guys, I meant it as a compliment.  Not trying to get this guy to raise his prices or to imply that $1,000 is a small amount of money (it's a lot of money for me and most people I know!).  I was merely pointing out this is a clever design at a very impressive price-point.  Don't know how they sound and I don't know if I would even like them, but they appear to be a very good value. 

The designer seems like a good guy and I sincerely wish him luck in his venture.  Hopefully, the exposure on AC will help launch a very  successful business! 

Lastly, I secretly (or not so secretly now that I'm mentioning it) hope the early adopters of this speaker don't feel the need to mention it in every post like some of the owners of another popular waveguide speaker (er...Geddes).  It's one thing to like your speakers but some of those guys are cult-like and creapy. :thumb:


 :green:


Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 1 Sep 2011, 12:25 am
Listening to some rock...

Acoustic guitars on 'Stranger Things Have Happened' by Foo Fighters are very good. Full and rich, just the right shimmer.

I think we're onto something...

 Oh damn! More impressions please!!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Diamond Dog on 1 Sep 2011, 12:28 am
Setup, shmetup. These things sound good. Already waaaaaay better than what I had before in the same spot with the same electronics. I know that doesn't mean much to those who want detailed listening notes, but to me.... it means a lot   :).

Actually, Neeko, I figure that pretty much says it all.

Congrats and enjoy the hell out of 'em!

D.D.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 1 Sep 2011, 12:35 am
What is each speaker weight?

Jim, they are around 35lbs.

And to the earlier posts about parts cost, most all that was mentioned is accurate. Yes the price is essentially break even, not counting the labor and time, etc.
I have a day job. I really enjoy it ( possibly a rarity). I live comfortably.
This is my weekend gig. No plans to become a full time manufacturer, where this pay the bills and i must depend on it.
I feel very strongly that people who love music should not have to spend stratospheric amounts to get this level of sound...hopefully where you forget price....and get lost in the music. Not wonder "what if you're seriously missing out", because you didn't spend a fortune. The "high end" has, IMO plenty super high priced products. Not as many high value products.
As noted, at some point I'll have to go to the $1300 price (to avoid actually having to rob a bank :lol:), but not for right now.

Neeko, enjoy :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 1 Sep 2011, 12:48 am
Aj can you describe the drivers used, and how you came about choosing them? Also the crossover and enclosure construction?

 I understand you have a modified Elemental Design's 8".
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 Sep 2011, 01:05 am
Yeah, I'm already thinking that I'll need to improve the stands situation. My $70 Sanus joints are a bit rinky dink for these mama jamas. The speakers are solid, man. Physically, I mean.
But that's another thread, another time.

What is here and now is that the pretty white SAM1's are really showing good versatility. Bill Frissell, Porcupine Tree, Jamie Cullum, Foo Fighters, Beck, Joni Mitchell, Birelli Lagrene, all sound right on these speakers. My evening listening is a bit constraned to not-too-bass heavy music, but I'm gonna work those angles tomorrow  :icon_twisted:

Warmth and smoothness. That's what I'm so surprised and delighted by right now. Everyone was saying 'dynamic' and kick ass, so I was expecting that... but the sheer niceness of the sound has me really floored. It just makes me want to hear more.

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Tyson on 1 Sep 2011, 01:25 am
Concentric speakers, if done well, are very hard to beat in the "coherent" and the "just sound right" categories.

AJ, any chance of these making an appearance at RMAF?  Maybe on loan to a tube amp vendor :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 1 Sep 2011, 03:24 am
Probably deserving of stand quality you'd find with $3k+/pair monitors. What is each speaker weight?  Considering the 300W powered 8" they might benefit from clamping or at least good spikes.   

Yeah, I'm already thinking that I'll need to improve the stands situation. My $70 Sanus joints are a bit rinky dink for these mama jamas.

Ha!  If you'll look closely at my pics from the Capitol Audiofest report, you'll see AJ has them on the flimsiest of Lovan Prelude stands, $29.95 on eBay right now, free shipping.  I have a pair for lightweight speakers and they're really quite nice for that, but I was amazed that AJ was using them for fairly large monitors, albeit the plate amps were on the floor in his prototype.  Didn't seem to hurt the sound in the hotel room.


Warmth and smoothness. That's what I'm so surprised and delighted by right now. Everyone was saying 'dynamic' and kick ass, so I was expecting that... but the sheer niceness of the sound has me really floored. It just makes me want to hear more.

I'm sure it got lost in translation with the several threads that I've posted about these speakers in, but somewhere I noted they sounded great with a wide variety of musical samples.  AJ had some kick ass jazz, some soft and delicate instrumentals, and a guy there had some warhorse classical pieces to play.  All sounded superb.  However the level of dynamics available from such a relatively small package is the overriding characteristic.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 Sep 2011, 05:12 am
Ha!  If you'll look closely at my pics from the Capitol Audiofest report, you'll see AJ has them on the flimsiest of Lovan Prelude stands, $29.95 on eBay right now, free shipping.  I have a pair for lightweight speakers and they're really quite nice for that, but I was amazed that AJ was using them for fairly large monitors, albeit the plate amps were on the floor in his prototype.  Didn't seem to hurt the sound in the hotel room.

I'm not super worried about the stands affecting sound quality, but just that they be solid enough to be stable and properly anchor the SAM1s. There are some gorgeous ones for sale for $500 on the internets that are inspiring me (and in maple, just like my cabinets)...


(http://coreaudiodesigns.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/b-v2-018.jpg)

I'm sure it got lost in translation with the several threads that I've posted about these speakers in, but somewhere I noted they sounded great with a wide variety of musical samples.  AJ had some kick ass jazz, some soft and delicate instrumentals, and a guy there had some warhorse classical pieces to play.  All sounded superb.  However the level of dynamics available from such a relatively small package is the overriding characteristic.

Tonight has been mostly acoustic, nuanced stuff due to the hour and neighbors. I'll be testing the dynamics tomorrow when I can crank them up a bit and see how they do.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 1 Sep 2011, 12:57 pm
There are some gorgeous ones for sale for $500
:o
If you spend $500 on stands, I'm going to send you a bill for $300 for the non-introductory price. :lol:
You did your equipment stand, DIY 'em yourself for a fraction of that, or get a more sanely priced one from an AC vendor. Heck Audio Advisor/PE have nice stands that you could use, just add some matching maple slats yourself.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 1 Sep 2011, 01:15 pm
Aj can you describe the drivers used, and how you came about choosing them? Also the crossover and enclosure construction?

 I understand you have a modified Elemental Design's 8".
Hi RC,

The main driver is the latest generation KEF Uni-Q. They're developing those things to near perfection. No more on axis holes/diffraction ripple with the advanced surround and phase shield. The measurements speak for themselves. I've always striven for uniform polar response, a coincident driver meets that demand better than any other. There is a large body of evidence supporting the fact that a speaker with a spectral mirror of it's on axis being output into the reverberant field, will not only sound better than one without, but will sound better in a wider variety of rooms/placements.
And not need the so called treatments, which I eschew. But understand, for those whose polar response is a real mess in need...of treatment. :wink:
Enclosure is a modified PE 0.7 cu MT cab, which comes standard in 3/4" MDF, with bracing and 1" baffle. It's solid enough to be audibly benign. You'll hurt your knuckles rapping the sides. XO is like the Colonels recipe. :wink:
Yes, the sub is an ED, ideal for small sealed cabs. 14mm xmax 1-way (28mm p-p).

regards,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 1 Sep 2011, 01:19 pm
AJ, any chance of these making an appearance at RMAF?  Maybe on loan to a tube amp vendor :D

It's a little late in the game for that, wasn't planning on it.....but I'm open to suggestions. I wouldn't think any tube vendor there wouldn't already have their speaker chosen.....

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 1 Sep 2011, 01:29 pm
Nice cabinets and drivers!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 Sep 2011, 01:51 pm
:o
If you spend $500 on stands, I'm going to send you a bill for $300 for the non-introductory price. :lol:
You did your equipment stand, DIY 'em yourself for a fraction of that, or get a more sanely priced one from an AC vendor. Heck Audio Advisor/PE have nice stands that you could use, just add some matching maple slats yourself.

cheers,

AJ

 :lol: :lol: Hahaha, yeah, merely coveting those badass stands.

I might try to DIY some stands, but I don't really have a design in mind yet. Or I might fill the ones I have with sand and paint them white to match the SAMs. 20" is the right height, and a google search returns nothing but crap. It's either cheapies like I have, or $500 beauties, for some reason. It's a weird gap in the retail world, nice stands for <$200.

Which AC vendors do you speak of? Not aware of anyone selling nice stands?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 1 Sep 2011, 03:00 pm
Check parts express, audiogon or audio advisor.  You would be better suited saving your money for a better amp or front end. Five bills is too much for stands IMO.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 Sep 2011, 03:17 pm
Check parts express, audiogon or audio advisor.  You would be better suited saving your money for a better amp or front end. Five bills is too much for stands IMO.

I hear you on $500 being too expensive, and I agree. Unfortunately, nothing cheaper is either not much of an upgrade, or is ugly as sin. So it's DIY time.

But first I've got some music to listen to.  :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 1 Sep 2011, 03:52 pm
http://home-audio.audioadvisor.com/search?p=Q&lbc=audioadvisor&uid=915349892&ts=custom&w=stands&af=cat1:speakerstands&isort=score&method=and&view=list

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accsrack&1319915436&/Osiris-Speaker-Stands-

Also, if you don't want to do DIY, look for some Orisis stands or  Sound Anchor stands used.  They are very solid and good looking.  I bet you can find a pair for around $250 that will suite your needs very well.  I had a pair of Orisis a  long time ago and they were very nice.   There are also some cool DIY stands using PVC that can be painted and filled with sand or  buckshot.  These are easy to make and once they are painted are pretty cool looking. 

You need a saw but these are as easy as it gets:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/stubby_e.html

http://www.instructables.com/id/PVC-and-Plywood-Speaker-Stands-for-Cheap/

http://onefallinghope.com/2009/02/03/diy-speaker-stands
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 1 Sep 2011, 04:17 pm
:o
If you spend $500 on stands, I'm going to send you a bill for $300 for the non-introductory price. :lol:
You did your equipment stand, DIY 'em yourself for a fraction of that, or get a more sanely priced one from an AC vendor. Heck Audio Advisor/PE have nice stands that you could use, just add some matching maple slats yourself.

cheers,

AJ

+1   :lol:     These monitors deserve state of the art stands: Just make hollow square vertical supports, plywood, whatever, on a large pedestal with spikes.  I'm thinking the vertical width/depth = SAM1 width/depth.  Height wise put the tweeter about ear height in your favorite chair....don't grow any more and keep that chair forever!  Slightly tilt the speaker back on its own spikes about 5-degrees (does it have spikes?) to get just a bit of tweeter reflection off the ceiling.  Fill that huge vertical support with dry sand (will be about 80+ lbs.)  Performance wise you'll have the equivalent of $1k+ stands.

Jackman, you're links are fantastic.  It's been years since I saw the TNT stand link, one of favorites.       

My speaker taste turned 180-degrees in the past five years.  Previously I viewed anything stand mounted as stupid.  The foot print is about the same as a floor stander and you get only less bass, higher bass cutoff, and soft dynamics.  Now I see the light.  Smaller boxes have smaller panels for less panel resonance and the standing waves are way above the woofer cutoff.  Better staging/imaging and away you go.  Besides, not to go OT, but full range speakers are inherently flawed vs. a distributed 4-piece sub array below 150 Hz.  Such an array is costly but it defines the state of the art in domestic bass reproduction.  So a floor stander brings nothing good to the table compared to alternatives.

AJ's philosophy has great promise: Better bass than any passive box anywhere near its size/cost.  Most may be perfectly happy with its bass forever.  For those that want even more/better bass, mode-flattening effects, HT fanatics, and/or dreaded upgrade syndrome: add a couple subs (invert polarity of one).  The primary difference between such a rig and a state of art distributed sub array is that two of the subs are attached to the main speakers, meaning less mode-flattening effect.  But it will approach some or much of the mode flattening effects of a state of the art sub array.  Killer idea. 

Plus the coincident driver means easy center speaker implementation. Contrary to any/everything every speaker marketer ever wrote: rotating a C speaker 90-degrees vs. the L/R is the worst possible "solution" in a L/C/R array.  If/when someone turns the SAM1 90-degrees the only driver "rotated" is the woofer crossed @ 200 Hz, likely impossible to detect. 

Maybe our lucky owner could rotate them 90 degrees and report the results to prove what a nit-wit dummy I am!

I suppose there might be less bass reinforcement....which reminds me: A 2pi panel or bass beard might be the cat's meow for the SAM1!  Cut a piece of cardboard same as baffle width (absolutely no less) and about 1" longer than the bottom of the enclosure to the floor.  Set this "beard" against the bottom front of the baffle to the floor.  The goal is to continue the baffle width to the floor to lower the frequency at which the bass changes from 2-pi to 4-pi space.  If it sounds good a nicely cut piece of plexiglass (or shinier cardboard!) can later replace the rough cardboard.  You might possibly get too much midbass, but certainly the cutoff should be lower.  Maybe lower the bass level a bit and alter toe-in to taste.  Try toe-in to cross fire 1-3 in front of centered listener.       

(Sorry for this OT: I maintain the following for HT: the least-compromised HT viewing surface is a perforated screen/front projector.  Only a perforated screen allows identical L/C/R speakers with identical vertical siting.  Every other viewing surface puts the viewing surface and/or the C speaker at the wrong vertical height and mandates a different array for the C speaker vs. L/R.  Plus a perforated screen best accommodates several feet of space between the front wall and front speakers-speakers and viewing surface share the same vertical plane. This maximizes image depth and spatial effects in front...which coincidentally provides no-compromises in a shared music/HT rig with a retractable screen...sorry for OT.)   
 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 Sep 2011, 05:49 pm
Wow James, you just went deep right there, with bass beards and 90 degree rotations and whatnot. You need a pair of these so you can test your theories  :wink:... I'm probably not the right guy to start a speaker lab in this room.

Right now I'm just getting acquainted with the sound of the SAM1s. I'm listening to James Blake at the moment, a lot of sub bass and precise electro sounds, and a very specific ambiance to this album. Even at moderate volume, the bass is great, very tight, and with the presence that this kind of music demands. Not overwhelming the rest of the mix, though, just right. And in terms of musicality: I can hear the melodies that are played on the very deep synth bass much better than with the other two systems I've heard this music on.

Next gonna though some nu-soul to hear how they do with that...
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 Sep 2011, 07:19 pm
Have the monitors farther apart now. LP is at the apex of an equilateral triangle, again, relatively nearfield.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50728)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 1 Sep 2011, 08:37 pm
Aj, you say the enclosure is modified. Have you added any custom bracing or is it standard as per the PE enclosure?

 I like the idea, I bet it sounds incredible. Exactly what I would want in a monitor, actually.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 2 Sep 2011, 12:15 am
Warning: The next post is very long. It is a preliminary review, and written like one, to the best of my ability. Sorry if it's a bore  :).... And now....
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 2 Sep 2011, 12:19 am
Soundfield Audio Monitor 1

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50738)

It was a leap of faith, as so many things  have been since I started caring โ€“ really caring โ€“ about the sound that my home stereo system was making. That began when a friend of mine who ran a thrift store casually gave me a pair of B&W DM602 series 2s that she had come into possession of. She already had speakers, and knowing that Iโ€™m a musician and music lover, she told me to take them home with me, and contented myself with some cool speakers. After a couple of years, finding the sound (especially the low end) lacking, and remembering various friends along the way who had good sounding stereos and what a pleasure it was to listen to them, I made the decision that we must have all, at one time, made: To get great sound.

The leaps of faith have included ordering a Polk sub, which I could never get to sound right in my place, buying a preamp (pretty good), an amp (very good), and a disc player (so-so), all sight unseen, from various sources; eBay, Echo Hi-Fi, Amazon, and the like. The leap that yielded the most disappointing results was buying a pair of Definitive Technology BP8020 floor standing โ€˜super towersโ€™. I had heard their bigger brothers the BP8080s at Best Buy some months before that, and had been impressed with the dynamic range and fullness of the sound. The secret, the enthusiastic sales guy said, was the active bass โ€“ a powered subwoofer in each speaker. Cool, I thought. Thatโ€™s what I need. One subwoofer in my room never sounded good, maybe a stereo pair, coupled with a quality mid/hi driver array would bring the warm, live, purty sound the I craved into my living room. Being on a budget, the 8080s, at $2,400 wasnโ€™t an option, so when I saw an open box special on the smaller 8020s for only about $650, I jumped on it and thought, well, these will be just like the bigger ones, only I can afford these!

Long story short, I could never get these towers to sound good. They produced an incomplete frequency response, resulting in a โ€˜holeโ€™ right around 125 Hz, so while the sub bass was pretty good, the higher bass frequencies were just AWOL. Ugh. $650 leap of faith, and I didnโ€™t clear the chasm of calamity. 

So I was gun shy but determined when, after two months of sound I didnโ€™t like, I started looking for a replacement set of speakers. I posted on AC about my quest, alluding to the fact that I thought the acoustics in my room were a problematic, and were there speakers that were more forgiving of room dynamics? Oh, and not much more than $1,200 please. The good people on AC were right there with myriad suggestions, tips on setting up my room better, and recommendations for speaker models that they thought might work.  It was a lot to process. However, one thing stood out; talk of a set of monitors that some โ€˜AJinFlaโ€™ had built that more than one commenter said I should consider. I read the thread where others had been asking about them, and in which those who had heard them were giving them high praise. People were saying that they couldnโ€™t believe the sound they heard from them; so dynamic and full, and just from a set of medium sized monitors.

I started corresponding with AJ, asking questions and realizing that if these could deliver on the promise- stereo subs, pure mids and highs โ€“ that my current speakers had failed to, they would be worth the $1,000 that AJ was charging. So I took one more leap, and said build โ€˜em, white please, and send them my way. AJ did this with efficiency and a friendly, communicative disposition, patiently explaining aspects of the design and build as we went.

We shipped, perhaps foolishly, the speakers on the eve of Hurricane Irene, from Florida to Long Island. We were both a little unsure about how that would work out, but Fed Ex ground came through without even a dayโ€™s delay.

Excited, I carefully unboxed them and beheld AJโ€™s handiwork. What struck me first was the heft of them, the solidity, and the modern coolness of the maple cabinets with their white baffle, offsetting the black and gray drivers. After all, the color was my idea, so of course I think theyโ€™re cool looking. The weight is due mainly to the .75โ€ MDF cabinet, but also the very substantial magnets in both the 8โ€ Elemental Design long throw subwoofer driver โ€“ 10 lbs each! โ€“ as well as the magnets in the 5.25โ€ KEF Uni-Q coaxial mids/tweeters mounted above each enclosed sub. All that comes to about 35 lbs per speaker, a heft that certainly tests my cheapie speaker standsโ€™ capacities. The cabinets, with its perfectly veneered edges, look as though they were carved from a single piece of wood. I donโ€™t know how this is achieved, but it gives them a real air of quality. The back of each speaker is dominated by its 300 watt BASH plate amp, with the crossover, various connections, power section, and gain control. Because of the design, none of these elements need to be futzed with except for the power/standby switches, input binding posts, and the gain.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50741)
I set them up, switched them on, and then called AJ for some setup tips. While on the phone with him, Diana Krallโ€™s Live in Paris came on, the first music that I heard with the new monitors. As I finished the phone call, I knew that  it needed to be turned up to make sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing.  Sure enough, the sound filling the room was so smooth, so musical, I immediately had a big grin and thought, this is itโ€ฆ theyโ€™re legit.

From the online commentary, I had been prepared for a big sound, and it is big. Itโ€™s a very โ€˜room fillingโ€™ experience, much more so than I had expected, but it doesnโ€™t need to be at high volume to get there. I think this must be due to the wide dynamic range that the Soundfield Audio Monitor 1s possess.

Paired with my Acurus DIA100, a passive preamped 100 watt solid state amp, the SAM1s seem to really shine. The Acurus is a very neutral amp, and drive them with precision and clarity, allowing the speakers to do their thing. I say it must be a good pairing because the resulting sound is, among other things, very warm and inviting. This was the big surprise to me. I had no idea how round, how natural music could sound out of a pair of monitors. The tight, staccato bassline and purring low notes in Meโ€™shell Ndegeocelloโ€™s โ€œDead Nigga Blvd (pt. 1)โ€ are so accurate, it really sounds like an electric bass well played, not โ€˜the bass from a speakerโ€™. The highs are very detailed, spread out across the soundstage, but never, ever harsh or shrill. Again, it doesnโ€™t come across as the treble from a speaker, it sounds more like the treble in the music.

AJ refers to Dr. Floyd Tooleโ€™s work on speaker/room interaction and psycho-acoustics when explaining why he chose the coaxial driver. The idea is that a great deal of what we hear are actually off axis reflections, so that the off axis response of a driver design in a room is critical to a smooth, unsmeared, and dynamic listening experience. He says he found that the KEF Uni-Q to be the ideal product to achieve this balance between on axis and off axis sound. When I first heard the way well recorded acoustic guitars sound through the SAM1s, courtesy of Foo Fighters and Porcupine Tree, I immediately got what he was talking about. Shimmering, natural, and precise, again, never brash. This was the room working for me, not against me. Halelluyah!

One of the true tests in the rock genre is how cymbals sound when thereโ€™s a lot of other stuff going on. The Foo Fighters โ€œEchoes, Silence, Patience, and Graceโ€ was a good proving ground. While not perfect, the SAM1s did an admirable job detailing and reproducing cymbals in the middle of hard rock bedlam.

Even though Iโ€™m in a quasi nearfield setup (6.5 feet back from the speakers), my impression of the soundstage width and depth is favorable. The stage extends all the way to the rear wall, and wider than the speakers themselves. Instruments are distinct with good separation, and the monitors fairly recede as the focal points of the music.

In the end, though, itโ€™s two words that most readily come to mind when I listen to the SAM1s: Smooth and coherent. The combination of these two assets really invites the listener into the music, rather than having the music be projected at oneโ€™s head like a weapon, as Iโ€™ve experienced with my last speakers. The smoothness gives music a contour that is very pleasing to the ear. But itโ€™s the coherence that I think might be the best part of the Soundfield Audio monitors. Music sounds more put together, makes more sense, and communicates feeling easily. I experienced the drum solo in Dave Brubeckโ€™s โ€œTake Fiveโ€ in a whole new way. The phrasing, the fun that the drummer is having with the groove was a revelation. Beyond the mechanics of stereo active bass and concentric mid/high drivers is the sense of wholeness to the presentation. But I know that these technical features make this quality possible, so props to them :D.

These speakers are thoroughly quiet. With my ear right up against them and the Acurus amp set to 1:00, total silence. And thatโ€™s with three amps in the equation.

They are also fairly revealing (also because of the very favorable aforementioned signal to noise ratio?). My 128 kbps AAC files that I purchased way back when from iTunes (doh!) sound, well, like 128 kbps files. Unfortunately, I have some of my favorite music in this format. CDs will be ordered directly (these speakers beg for redbook quality, but my 320 kbps files sound very good as well).

Itโ€™s only day two with these speakers. But, like falling in love, when you know, you know. The Soundfield Audio Monitor 1 is a special speaker in my opinion, in that it delivers a complete, coherent, and exciting sound for a reasonable amount of cheddar. These babies are recommended for anyone who has had trouble making their rooms sound good, anyone who wants powerful, musical bass without the uncertainty of placing subs, and anyone who likes their music served up with capable grace and panache. All it took was some research, luck, a little cash andโ€ฆ  one more leap of faith. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 2 Sep 2011, 03:08 am
Excellent review, very well written.  Captures what I heard when listening to the speakers.  The one thing I didn't get a perfect handle on when I hear them was imaging and soundfield, hotel room and all.  This is a deal maker or breaker for me.  Sounds like you have good width, fair depth, but not spectacular rear wall melting depth, and the speakers almost disappear.  I think you might get some improvements in these areas with modified placement.  Try further out into the room, less toe (or more toe), and even a touch wider.  Move the listening seat back if possible (no pics of that).  Good luck with whatever you end up with in placement and happy listening.   
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 2 Sep 2011, 04:48 am
Excellent review, very well written.  Captures what I heard when listening to the speakers.  The one thing I didn't get a perfect handle on when I hear them was imaging and soundfield, hotel room and all.  This is a deal maker or breaker for me.  Sounds like you have good width, fair depth, but not spectacular rear wall melting depth, and the speakers almost disappear.  I think you might get some improvements in these areas with modified placement.  Try further out into the room, less toe (or more toe), and even a touch wider.  Move the listening seat back if possible (no pics of that).  Good luck with whatever you end up with in placement and happy listening.

Thanks, mate.

You're right, I think that the imaging/ stage depth might benefit from a better setup in the room. I have to play with it a bit, so we'll see...
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jkelly on 2 Sep 2011, 01:36 pm
Any thoughts on longer length powercords (10ft -15ft ) for the plate amps?

I see that there are extensions made with IEC connectors.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-180 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-180)

And I see IEC adapters for extension cords like the Walmart White cord:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-PWA421-Female-Prong-Adapter/dp/B000AJM27A (http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-PWA421-Female-Prong-Adapter/dp/B000AJM27A)

Any thoughts... the 6 ft will be too short for me.

Jeff
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 2 Sep 2011, 01:44 pm
James,
I understand where you're going with that, but do keep in mind that the baffle/driver response is an integral part of the (low) filter design. One would have to be careful doing what you suggested. WRT to a center for HT, the new KEF Q centers would work just fine too, though yes, one of these could be flipped on its side with a relatively benign effect due to the coincident driver being a point source.

RClark,
The "mod" to the cabinet is the subenclosure for the coax internally. It does further stiffen the cab, but that's not it's main purpose.

Neeko,
Do you ever work or sleep? :lol:
Couple things about soundstage:
1) It's an artificial construct of the stereo recording process.
2) It is highly dependent on speaker/room/listener position, though less so with a controlled directional characteristic loudspeaker.

I eschew artificial "audiophile" ultra-precision to the mm imaging...because it's fake. It simply does not exist in real life. Anyone who attends live music heavily will tell you that.
I even remarked to Gary Gill at Capfest, that it should have been mandatory for all exhibitors to attend the live jazz jam in the lobby to see exactly this effect, since it's quite apparent to me that many strive for this type of presentation.
To each his own of course. But I'm squarely in agreement with what Toole's "Small Room" paper found.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 2 Sep 2011, 01:50 pm
Any thoughts on longer length powercords (10ft -15ft ) for the plate amps?

I see that there are extensions made with IEC connectors.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-180 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-180)

And I see IEC adapters for extension cords like the Walmart White cord:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-PWA421-Female-Prong-Adapter/dp/B000AJM27A (http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-PWA421-Female-Prong-Adapter/dp/B000AJM27A)

Any thoughts... the 6 ft will be too short for me.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

The stock cord is 8', not 6. But if that's still too short, then yes, just about any IEC type cord will work. Like this nice 14ga one from Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5293&seq=1&format=2 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5293&seq=1&format=2)
I'm a bit apprehensive about the Walmart adapter, because that extension might put more stress on the plate amp socket. I'm pretty sure they make white/grey IEC cords too.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 2 Sep 2011, 01:59 pm
James,
I understand where you're going with that, but do keep in mind that the baffle/driver response is an integral part of the (low) filter design. One would have to be careful doing what you suggested. WRT to a center for HT, the new KEF Q centers would work just fine too, though yes, one of these could be flipped on its side with a relatively benign effect due to the coincident driver being a point source.

RClark,
The "mod" to the cabinet is the subenclosure for the coax internally. It does further stiffen the cab, but that's not it's main purpose.

Neeko,
Do you ever work or sleep? :lol:
Couple things about soundstage:
1) It's an artificial construct of the stereo recording process.
2) It is highly dependent on speaker/room/listener position, though less so with a controlled directional characteristic loudspeaker.

I eschew artificial "audiophile" ultra-precision to the mm imaging...because it's fake. It simply does not exist in real life. Anyone who attends live music heavily will tell you that.
I even remarked to Gary Gill at Capfest, that it should have been mandatory for all exhibitors to attend the live jazz jam in the lobby to see exactly this effect, since it's quite apparent to me that many strive for this type of presentation.
To each his own of course. But I'm squarely in agreement with what Toole's "Small Room" paper found.

cheers,

AJ

Excellent post, WRT soundstage and imaging.  Everyone should have to attend a live music event in a good room (jazz jam or orchestra, not stadium event) to get a feel for what real live music sounds like.  It's usually not the same as the ideal audiophile opinion of live music.

 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 2 Sep 2011, 04:23 pm
Neeko,
Do you ever work or sleep? :lol:

Yes. I worked on that in my sleep.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 2 Sep 2011, 04:35 pm
James,
I understand where you're going with that, but do keep in mind that the baffle/driver response is an integral part of the (low) filter design. One would have to be careful doing what you suggested.

Thanks for the clarification.  What is the potential risk of adding a "beard" (AKA 2pi panel) coupling/extending the full baffle width to the floor? 


Quote
...soundstage (is)...an artificial construct of the stereo recording process...I eschew artificial "audiophile" ultra-precision...imaging...because it's fake. It simply does not exist in real life.

James Bongiorno, inventor of the full dual-differential full-complementary amplifier topology, designer of the pure analog Trinaural Processor, and one of audio's most celebrated designers/thinkers, uses the exact same language: "stereo is an artificial man-made construct", followed quickly by, "all sound sources in nature are mono", and, "there is no such thing as stereo in nature".  Audiophiles take stereo for granted.  It's inherent flaws are well documented by no less than its inventor Alan Blumlein.  Since switching to Trinaural I've never taken stereo seriously as a listening format, so well established and audible are its flaws by comparison.     

Quote
Anyone who attends live music heavily will tell you that.
 
I even remarked to Gary Gill at Capfest, that it should have been  mandatory for all exhibitors to attend the live jazz jam in the lobby to  see exactly this effect, since it's quite apparent to me that many  strive for this type of presentation.

+1.  Debra and I support local professional musicians by regularly hiring them to play in our home.  There's an awesome Young Chang grand upstairs.  Austin Weyand played guitar here several times.  The future USU piano professor and award winner Brandon Lee played here while I sat just IFO and under the grand soundboard (that's the real thing).  Once the drummer, bass, and guitar players from a local band jammed in the soundroom downstairs; last time just the drummer and guitar player.  I was in the control room with Stephen "Doc" Kupka warming his baritone sax, and that experience rearranges the bowels of your innards, a physical shock to the body.     

IMO the biggest difference between live and recorded is power response and thermal compression.  Once you are thoroughly tuned in to this, it becomes apparent how severely compressed systems are, especially the leading edges of transients.  Spatial considerations are more of an after thought with live music because it's dynamic ebb and flow are such a major part of the experience.  It also makes obvious the electronic hash and electronic noise filling the silence between notes.  Yes, of course live music has ambient noise, people talking, etc.  But natural ambient noise is completely different from the noise of electronic circuits as is the case with recorded/reproduced music.     

Quote
To each his own of course.

+1, as always, everyone else's MMV. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 2 Sep 2011, 10:03 pm
Saw this on Warpdrv's thread about his new Salks, had to post it here, though. It's true of the SAM1s as well...


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50744)


Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: JLM on 2 Sep 2011, 11:44 pm
Too cute to ignore.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 5 Sep 2011, 07:48 pm
Have the monitors farther apart now. LP is at the apex of an equilateral triangle, again, relatively nearfield.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=50728)
these look great, and i would love to hear them.  mebbe when the tour speakers are ready, the speakers will have the feature to connect passive subs to the built-in amps - that's something that would be a requirement for me.

meanwhile, move that table out of the way, and let me know how much better everything sounds.   :wink:  and, while that diffuser looks great, completely covering the tv w/an absorbent blanket will also help...

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 5 Sep 2011, 08:58 pm
these look great, and i would love to hear them.  mebbe when the tour speakers are ready, the speakers will have the feature to connect passive subs to the built-in amps - that's something that would be a requirement for me.

If this is a requirement for you, which speakers do you currently have with this feature?  I know of no speakers that have this ability and don't know a lot of people using passive subs anyway (requiring amplification).  There are lots of active sub options that would go well with these speakers (or any speakers for that matter). 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 5 Sep 2011, 10:02 pm
If this is a requirement for you, which speakers do you currently have with this feature?  I know of no speakers that have this ability and don't know a lot of people using passive subs anyway (requiring amplification).  There are lots of active sub options that would go well with these speakers (or any speakers for that matter).
i actively bi-amp, or tri-amp, and yes, i use passive subs that require outboard amplification.  if the soundfields could be hi-passed at ~80hz, then i'd be ok.  not sure how it works, w/its active powered woofer built-in.

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 5 Sep 2011, 10:13 pm
i actively bi-amp, or tri-amp, and yes, i use passive subs that require outboard amplification.  if the soundfields could be hi-passed at ~80hz, then i'd be ok.  not sure how it works, w/its active powered woofer built-in.

doug s.

The 8" subwoofer driver does (about) 20Hz-200Hz. The 5.25" Kef concentric drivers take over at 200Hz. Why would you want to high pass the monitors? They make very good bass, IMO.

Whatever the case, you probably could get a custom setup. After all, AJ builds them to order, I believe.   
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 5 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm
The 8" subwoofer driver does (about) 20Hz-200Hz. The 5.25" Kef concentric drivers take over at 200Hz. Why would you want to high pass the monitors? They make very good bass, IMO.

Whatever the case, you probably could get a custom setup. After all, AJ builds them to order, I believe.

Neeko,
Those are cool looking speakers and I'm sure they have great bass for their size.  But if you think you are getting 20hz from 8 inch woofers in those cabinets, you are mistaken.  Don't get me wrong, 20hz capability is not necessary for any music I listen to and if you are getting in-room bass in 30's at normal listening levels with those speakers, you are doing very well.  Also, unless you are using a system for HT, you may not want speakers that play to 20hz.  Run some test tones through those and see what I mean.  Those woofers will be going crazy at 35-40hz tones. 

This is not a slam on the Soundfield speakers, because they are pretty cool looking and appear to be an awesome value.  They appear to have better bass response than any other small monitors I have seen, so my comments (above) are meant to be a compliment.  I'm just saying, you can't get close to 20hz from these or any other monitor speaker with an 8" woofer. 

I'm not sure how big a deal the ability to drive other subs with the built in amp (I'm talking about additional passive subs) is going to be (unless the Soundfield guy is going to offer passive subs that offer a similar value) for most people.  There are lots of good, inexpensive active subs available if you need more bass. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 5 Sep 2011, 10:51 pm
Yeah, I probably was a bit low estimating the low freq threshold. Anywhat, they go low  :D. I wouldn't want to miss out on the sound by high passing them, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 6 Sep 2011, 12:11 am
my issue is i actively cross subs to my mains at ~60-80hz, (depending on mains), and there's no way i am gonna run any speakers w/o a true subwoofer set-up.  aj could probably let folks like us know the best way to integrated subs w/his speakers.  not sure i'd want to be running my subs up to 200hz if they were connected directly to the soundfields; that's another issue that would need to be worked out...

not that i really need any more speakers, haha!  but, these seem intriguing.

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 6 Sep 2011, 01:17 pm
my issue is i actively cross subs to my mains at ~60-80hz, (depending on mains), and there's no way i am gonna run any speakers w/o a true subwoofer set-up.  aj could probably let folks like us know the best way to integrated subs w/his speakers.  not sure i'd want to be running my subs up to 200hz if they were connected directly to the soundfields; that's another issue that would need to be worked out...

not that i really need any more speakers, haha!  but, these seem intriguing.

doug s.

Hi Doug,

These speakers are just like any passive, non-powered speaker, except you plug them into a wall :wink:. You simply connect your existing speaker wires (from your main amp) to the speaker input on the back. Adjust the (sub) level on the plate amp to match your main amp...and your done.
That way, if you have your main amp hi-passed at 60hz, that's what the SAM1's will be fed. And your line level sub outputs are free...to feed as many subs as you need.
I highly doubt you will bottom or overdrive the built in subs listening to music. They are designed to be run full ranged in small to medium sized rooms and provide healthy sound pressures..of course dependent on the amp driving them.
HT is another story. Two 8" subs are not going to play back WOTW at reference levels in an auditorium...nor were they intended to do so.
The subs are sealed, not vented, so it is entirely possible for the in room response to extend down into the mid 20's (as shown by the in (my) room response in the CapFest thread). YMMV.
If you need HT ref levels in a large room, you'll just have to wait for the Model 2's or 3's  :D

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 6 Sep 2011, 02:47 pm
Hi Doug,

These speakers are just like any passive, non-powered speaker, except you plug them into a wall :wink:. You simply connect your existing speaker wires (from your main amp) to the speaker input on the back. Adjust the (sub) level on the plate amp to match your main amp...and your done.
That way, if you have your main amp hi-passed at 60hz, that's what the SAM1's will be fed. And your line level sub outputs are free...to feed as many subs as you need.
I highly doubt you will bottom or overdrive the built in subs listening to music. They are designed to be run full ranged in small to medium sized rooms and provide healthy sound pressures..of course dependent on the amp driving them.
HT is another story. Two 8" subs are not going to play back WOTW at reference levels in an auditorium...nor were they intended to do so.
The subs are sealed, not vented, so it is entirely possible for the in room response to extend down into the mid 20's (as shown by the in (my) room response in the CapFest thread). YMMV.
If you need HT ref levels in a large room, you'll just have to wait for the Model 2's or 3's  :D

cheers,

AJ
aj, thanks for the clarification; it is as i suspected.  one question about the possibility of future connecting passive subs directly to the sam1 - will they also be driven to 200hz, or is there a way w/the bash amp to cut their response, while the sam1 woofers still go to 200hz?

thanks again,

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: JohnR on 6 Sep 2011, 02:51 pm
doug, why wouldn't you just use the (I assume) outboard amps that you already have for your subs?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 6 Sep 2011, 03:18 pm
aj, thanks for the clarification; it is as i suspected.  one question about the possibility of future connecting passive subs directly to the sam1 - will they also be driven to 200hz, or is there a way w/the bash amp to cut their response, while the sam1 woofers still go to 200hz?

thanks again,

doug s.

The 200hz XO is electro-acoustic, which means it is the sum of the electrical (plate amp) and acoustic (speaker) response....which includes diffraction loss (aka "Baffle Step" as you might have seen it referred to). A (typical) ground based subwoofer size box would have a different acoustic response...and thus a different electro-acoustic XO when connected to the plate amp. One could run a slave sub like this, the actual XO would be closer to what you dial in on the plate amp, but unless you are lucky, I wouldn't particularly recommend it. A bandpass might work, but it would really depend on what modes were overexcited, etc., etc.
The real reason why the slave output is mentioned as a future upgrade (and it will become available once I work out the mishap prevention connection scheme) will soon be revealed. :wink:
It's more of an alternative to the multi-sub approach (which I like, but is not feasible for all) that (hopefully) achieves a similar(smoother at the LP) effect.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. as John points out, you absolutely can still use your existing subs to augment/smooth/etc the response. I encourage it if needed.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 6 Sep 2011, 03:37 pm
doug, why wouldn't you just use the (I assume) outboard amps that you already have for your subs?
john, this is certainly the logical choice.  but, if the subs could have been driven off the sam1's built-in amps, it simplifies the set-up.

i suspect aj's "soon revealed' plans entail subs specifically designed to mate w/the sam1's, so the issues mentioned in trying to randomly make my passive subs work won't be issues...   8)

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 9 Sep 2011, 08:53 pm
AJ, any chance of these making an appearance at RMAF?

A plot has been hatched..... :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jkelly on 9 Sep 2011, 09:10 pm
Mine just arrived - gonna be a great weekend!

Jeff
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 9 Sep 2011, 09:16 pm
Mine just arrived - gonna be a great weekend!

Jeff

Hey Jeff, I look forward to your impressions.   These are cool looking speakers and they appear to be  getting very popular.  Let us know your thoughts, and the type of gear you try them with.  Also, please compare them to other speakers you have owned or auditioned.

Cheers,

J
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jkelly on 9 Sep 2011, 09:18 pm
Sure - for starts I will be using:

Pure Music
Mac Mini
Tranquility Dac
Bob Latino 120 amp
multiple cables.

Jeff
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 9 Sep 2011, 09:22 pm
Mine just arrived - gonna be a great weekend!

Jeff

Awww yeah. I believe you are in for a sonic treat, my friend.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jkelly on 9 Sep 2011, 09:26 pm
Me love that!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: eclein on 9 Sep 2011, 09:28 pm
Tell us what you hear....I'd like to hear your very first impressions right out of the box!! Whatever you do enjoy it thoroughly and have fun!!!!! Congrats jkelly!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 10 Sep 2011, 02:53 am
JKelly... so?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 10 Sep 2011, 05:46 am
So AJ, your first customers appear to be... AUDIOPHILES!!!    :rotflmao:  Good luck with your new venture, man.


Neekomax, enjoy buddy. Can't wait to hear your impressions.

After lurking on AVS recently, I now finally understand the meaning of this post.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 12 Sep 2011, 01:23 pm
Oh boy, oh boy! I have a pair of these being shipped in the next day or two. So far from what I've read, these are going to be amazing. Of course the proof is in the listening. I'm very pleased with the design and the fact that the midrange/tweet array is highpassed at 200hz. That means there are an abundance of modest power amps available to use, including tube amps :D.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 12 Sep 2011, 01:36 pm
Oh boy, oh boy! I have a pair of these being shipped in the next day or two. So far from what I've read, these are going to be amazing. Of course the proof is in the listening. I'm very pleased with the design and the fact that the midrange/tweet array is highpassed at 200hz. That means there are an abundance of modest power amps available to use, including tube amps :D.

Hi Chris,

Be aware that these are 6 ohm nominal, 4 ohm min speakers, so a 4 ohm tap tube amp is advisable. I don't have any pure tube amps in the collection, but none of my SS amps have had any issues driving them, including my featherweight old pioneer VSX-815 HT receiver and a Qinpu A6000 MkII hybrid, neither exactly a 4 ohm powerhouse (the Pioneer manual recommends 6ohm minimum speakers).

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 12 Sep 2011, 01:47 pm
I do indeed understand. My other speaks are 5ohms so I'm only considering amps capable of operating well into 4ohms and above. Thanks, AJ.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 12 Sep 2011, 03:56 pm
Chris, are you considering driving your new speakers with a tube amp? Which one? Be interested to hear your impressions.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 12 Sep 2011, 04:17 pm
I'm on the hunt for a tube amp now. I have three different SS amps, two of them are mono blocks. I'll keep you informed.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 13 Sep 2011, 10:27 pm
Just FYI,

Here is the impedance:

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/AJinFLA/SAM1impedance.jpg)

Any decent amp should have no problems driving it. I'll upload it to the Soundfield site eventually.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jkelly on 14 Sep 2011, 01:25 am
With only four days with these speakers I have to say I am impressed.
The first thing I noticed was dynamics - these guys can stretch and push the levels on hits.

Second in my listening room I had to turn the bass way back to about 9:00 on the level control.
I am really not a subwoofer fan and just having a touch of sub is perfect for me. Always
great to have solid bass coming from (any) speaker!

I really like the KEF driver. It has a warmer sound, and the coherent sound is awesome.
There is no real sweet spot with this design.

The speakers were imaging fine, but when I replaced my interconnect with Mac Palladiums
the whole sound stage, depth, sound outside speakers improved like crazy.  Now I have magic.
Generally, I am happier with my brighter cables than my usual warmer cables with this speaker.

So a lot of experimenting going on.  I have them about 6 foot off the back wall and about 7 feet apart.
pretty much the right spot for most speakers in my room.  Able to hear layers and position of instruments
behind the vocals.

Finally, I think they like power - 60 watts - 100 watts.  Don't think flea power would work well.

More to come.

Jeff

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: konut on 14 Sep 2011, 01:45 am
That is some really nice phase response you've got there. That explains the nice imaging people are reporting. Well done!!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 14 Sep 2011, 06:25 pm
I was starting to worry not hearing anything Jeff, especially after you said the neighbors were enjoying the SPLs :wink:.
Glad is seems you have things sorted out for the most part.

I have them about 6 foot off the back wall and about 7 feet apart.
pretty much the right spot for most speakers in my room.  Able to hear layers and position of instruments
behind the vocals.

 :o. 6' out from the wall behind the speakers (what I would refer to as the front wall), is quite a bit. I should have made you some bipoles, had I known. 8)
I designed these so that they can be placed relatively close (2' or so) to the front wall without getting boomy like so many ported designs tend to do. But if you're getting balanced and enough bass that way, better yet.

Finally, I think they like power - 60 watts - 100 watts.  Don't think flea power would work well.

More to come.

Jeff
I would have to agree there. It's not that they won't work with low powered amps like some SETs, they simply demand some oomph to get their full dynamic capability into play. No different from any 86-87db speaker.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. shipped a couple more today  :)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 17 Sep 2011, 12:51 pm
Mine are out for delivery today. :thumb: I'll let you know after I listen for a while.
I found some tube amps to try with these. Tube Audio Design TAD-1000 mono blocks. Paul had a pair that were in storage for 4 years. At my request to purchase, he opened them up and tweaked 'em real nice. Said that they measured better than any pair he has sold and that they offered a very deep and entertaining sound stage. We'll see how they mate with the SAM1s.
Here's a pic of the amps due to arrive on Wed. the 21st.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51404)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 17 Sep 2011, 08:14 pm
Nice! 100w tube monoblocks! Can't wait to hear about how it goes.  8)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 17 Sep 2011, 09:36 pm
Nice! 100w tube monoblocks! Can't wait to hear about how it goes.  8)

I'll let you know when I get my new speaker. :bawl: The woofer was completely ripped out of the cabinet but for one screw.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51418)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 17 Sep 2011, 09:49 pm
Oh man!!! :cuss:

The woofer was ripped out? How's that even possible, must have been floating around inside the cabinet?  :o

That sucks bad, sorry to hear that. Been hearing about too many shipping mishaps in general these days. It really is a crapshoot...

If you're experience is anything like mine has been, the sound (field) will all be worth it.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 17 Sep 2011, 10:33 pm

The woofer was ripped out? How's that even possible, must have been floating around inside the cabinet?

Oh, just apply around 30g's of force or so :duh:
It's screwed to the 1" thick baffle from the back side with 8 screws, so it must have taken quite a wallop. Enough for the cabinet corner to penetrate through the 2"+ thick Styrofoam. Ouch. It must have fell quite a ways and landed perfectly on the corner. I think they must practice that to get it just right. :shake:
I figured this was inevitable having read the horror stories, but didn't think it would occur so soon. Ah well. In my experience, UPS is even worse. But they all have insurance, so frankly, the handlers don't care.
I told Chris to break some old mono LP's till mid next week :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: WGH on 17 Sep 2011, 10:36 pm
That is always a disappointment when damage occurs, good luck with the replacement.

Looking at the photo the packing is definitely inadequate. The foam looks like the soft type which allows damage like this to happen.

I have shipped a lot of very expensive heavy custom doors and they all arrive in perfect condition because I always use 2" of semi-rigid Styrofoam on all sides in an interlocking pattern. Even a wood crate won't stop damage if the wrong foam is used.

Wayne 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 17 Sep 2011, 10:48 pm
I just took another look at the foam and box. The foam is very difficult to compress. I can actually run my finger down through the foam and contact the speaker. It's a puncture. Looks like the corner of the box was run into a relatively sharp object which made it's way through the box, foam, and then contacted the speaker corner. You can see a piece of the box that was driven into the foam.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51428)
 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 17 Sep 2011, 10:52 pm
Whoa... that's just blatant abuse. Thing got stabbed?

As far as the packaging goes, I felt that my SAM1s were packaged pretty well. I assume it's roughly the packaging and foam that Parts Express sent the cabinets in originally, no? Seems like a company that big and well reputed would have a pretty good handle on how to pack speakers/cabinets?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: WGH on 17 Sep 2011, 11:14 pm
I just took another look at the foam and box. The foam is very difficult to compress. I can actually run my finger down through the foam and contact the speaker. It's a puncture. Looks like the corner of the box was run into a relatively sharp object which made it's way through the box, foam, and then contacted the speaker corner. You can see a piece of the box that was driven into the foam.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51428)

Sure it didn't happen the other away around? When the box was dropped the speaker corner went through the foam and hit the floor. The sudden stop tore the woofer loose.

The business next door to me ships Mexican furniture all around the US, one of his customers found an engine block inside a 6' tall armoire, nobody could see the hole in the top of the crate.

Expect the unexpected.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 17 Sep 2011, 11:34 pm
Sure it didn't happen the other away around? When the box was dropped the speaker corner went through the foam and hit the floor. The sudden stop tore the woofer loose.

The business next door to me ships Mexican furniture all around the US, one of his customers found an engine block inside a 6' tall armoire, nobody could see the hole in the top of the crate.

Expect the unexpected.

Could be but the hole is fairly small and the foam is indented from outside to inside. Where my finger is pointing it is depressed. I felt the hole gradually get smaller as I went toward the speaker corner.

Maybe I should look inside a little better. Maybe some tires or a plow in there.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 17 Sep 2011, 11:52 pm
I have to say that AJ has been stellar about this. Customer service so far has been AAA. He is in the process of building a new speaker to be shipped to me on Monday. :rock: :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: timind on 18 Sep 2011, 01:33 am
What a freakin bummer! I've been following this thread and your anticipation at getting the speakers.
Shipping speakers is a crap shoot for sure. Hope it works out.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chris Adams on 18 Sep 2011, 02:04 am
What a freakin bummer! I've been following this thread and your anticipation at getting the speakers.
Shipping speakers is a crap shoot for sure. Hope it works out.

Thanks. When you ship anything, you put your trust in the shippers hands and hope each individual who handles the item will treat it well. Doesn't always happen. I was in the retail audio business for 20 years and have been an avid hobbyist for the past 10. The percentage of damaged goods from shipping has been small. AJ shipped these FedEx and I have used FedEx for the past 8 years. Overall they have been very good. The last time I filed a claim with them, it was taken care of very quickly. In fact, that was the only claim I've filed in 8 years for items I've shipped.

Back to the thread. Can't wait to hear these speakers. :D Well I have heard one, and it sounds like...one speaker. :duh:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chinaski on 22 Sep 2011, 09:35 pm
I'm having a go with the SAM1s also.  Mine arrived Tuesday unscathed, thankfully.  I have them positioned along the long wall, about 3 feet off the wall, toed-in to have the tweeters cross about six inches in front of my head when in my listening position (per AJ's suggestion).  True ear candy!  Nice depth in the soundstage, sound height projection also impressive, really excellent imaging -- very impressive wall of sound, especially on top notch recordings.  Wide wide sweet spot (er, sweetwedge?).  My room is largish pushing 5600 cu. ft. and opens to two adjacent rooms, plus I have 2-story ceilings.  I'm only driving these, right now, with a Yamaha RX-V3200 receiver, streaming lossless tunes via a Squeezebox Touch.   Room filling sound without having to push the amp one tiny bit.   I clearly understand the buzz now.  It's quite well deserved! 

So far I'm liking these more than a couple other pairs I've demoed:  ML Electromotions (a bit too polite with rock for me; tiny sweet spot when seated, no sweet spot when standing!) and B&W CM9s (don't do rock well, relatively overpriced, sweet sax though; veiled sound compared to the SAM1s).   More to come...

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 22 Sep 2011, 09:49 pm
Welcome to the SAM1 fold, Chinaski!

Where did you find out about them, here?

Post photos if you'd like!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 22 Sep 2011, 10:32 pm
Just brought my SAM1s over to my girlfriends house. She has a bigger living room which is a bit more acoustically damped (rugs, bookcases etc.), and most importantly, there are no close in neighbors, so I finally get to CRANK 'em.

So awesome! Listening to Peter Erskine - The Interlochen Concert right now. Loud but smooth, these little babies.

I have them set up wider than I can at home, and I did the crossfire toe-in thing, and man! The soundstage is really deep and wide, as Chinaski was saying. Wow!

Only minus, I bottomed out the subs with some VERY bass heavy music at high volume, had to dial back the subs a bit from there (probably had them set a bit too high from the get go).

This is cool. :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 23 Sep 2011, 04:48 am

 Can you describe the "spherical wavefront" a little more? Is this a driver or crossover thing? Is it true these require minimal room treatment?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 23 Sep 2011, 05:01 am
Hey neekos, http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97379.msg994469;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 23 Sep 2011, 05:03 am
What's it do?  :scratch:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 23 Sep 2011, 05:09 am
apparently SUPREME sq volume control. No mechanical connection, uses light! People are replacing very expensive tube preamps with just this unit.

 Get on the list  :wink:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 23 Sep 2011, 07:01 am
Can you describe the "spherical wavefront" a little more? Is this a driver or crossover thing? Is it true these require minimal room treatment?

Uh, I know this is a question for AJ, but in the meantime, I'll take a whack...

I believe that the propagation of a spherical wavefront is the basic goal/advantage of a true point source design - as in the coaxial array of the Kef mid driver/tweeter. So when the wavefront is spherical because all the information is originating at the same point (as opposed to multiple points, as with more common driver arrays), there is a much more balanced off axis frequency response, and therefore a more coherent, clear, in-room sound for the listener. And the sweet spot isn't just one spot  :).

I may be mistaken, but that's what my wee bit of research was able to get to...  :lol:. If you google 'spherical wavefront', you get some heavy physics sh#t right off the bat, takes a little digging to find out how it relates to sound and audio design. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 23 Sep 2011, 01:04 pm
Can you describe the "spherical wavefront" a little more? Is this a driver or crossover thing? Is it true these require minimal room treatment?

Neeko explained it pretty well. A point source like the coincident KEF, essentially creates a spherical wavefront, so that what is reflected off each surface, floor, ceiling, sidewalls, is a spectral "mirror" of the original direct field response.
i don't want you to plaster your room with bandaids and bandages to "treat" the wounds of horribly mangled polar response. i want them reflected at you, uniformly.
You know there is a fantastic resource right here under your nose at AC:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.0)

of special interest is the 2nd to last one: Loudspeakers and Rooms for Sound Reproductionโ€”A Scientific Review
Take the time to read it carefully and see what Dr Toole (and dozens of perceptual scientists) are saying with regards to what we hear, vs what we measure in a real living room. Things like cognitive "adaptation" and "plausibility". And the issue of so called "treatments". Fascinating stuff. :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 23 Sep 2011, 01:12 pm
AJ

I want to know when you're passing through NC again so I can hear them.   :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 23 Sep 2011, 01:34 pm
AJ

I want to know when you're passing through NC again so I can hear them.   :D

If I'm humping stuff that far, I'm bringing big bro, for some mma action vs your abbeys in situ. You know that's why they have weight classes right? :wink:
No RMAF for you?

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 23 Sep 2011, 01:52 pm
If I'm humping stuff that far, I'm bringing big bro, for some mma action vs your abbeys in situ. You know that's why they have weight classes right? :wink:
No RMAF for you?

cheers,

AJ

No RMAF for me this year. 

I have electronics....just bring the speaks!   :wink:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 23 Sep 2011, 05:24 pm
I'm having a go with the SAM1s also.  Mine arrived Tuesday unscathed, thankfully.  I have them positioned along the long wall, about 3 feet off the wall, toed-in to have the tweeters cross about six inches in front of my head when in my listening position (per AJ's suggestion).  True ear candy!  Nice depth in the soundstage, sound height projection also impressive, really excellent imaging -- very impressive wall of sound, especially on top notch recordings.  Wide wide sweet spot (er, sweetwedge?).  My room is largish pushing 5600 cu. ft. and opens to two adjacent rooms, plus I have 2-story ceilings.  I'm only driving these, right now, with a Yamaha RX-V3200 receiver, streaming lossless tunes via a Squeezebox Touch.   Room filling sound without having to push the amp one tiny bit.   I clearly understand the buzz now.  It's quite well deserved! 

So far I'm liking these more than a couple other pairs I've demoed:  ML Electromotions (a bit too polite with rock for me; tiny sweet spot when seated, no sweet spot when standing!) and B&W CM9s (don't do rock well, relatively overpriced, sweet sax though; veiled sound compared to the SAM1s).   More to come...

Glad to hear you are enjoying the SAM1s.  I look forward to reading more of your impressions.

Hmmmm....... I may have to invite myself over one day to hear them. :wink: :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 23 Sep 2011, 09:38 pm
If I'm humping stuff that far, I'm bringing big bro, for some mma action vs your abbeys in situ. You know that's why they have weight classes right? :wink:
No RMAF for you?

cheers,

AJ


 Oh no way, you've got a range of speakers coming?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 23 Sep 2011, 10:46 pm
If I'm humping stuff that far, I'm bringing big bro, for some mma action vs your abbeys in situ. You know that's why they have weight classes right? :wink:
No RMAF for you?

cheers,

AJ

These joints?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/soundfield-audio


(http://www.stereophile.com/images/070911Soundfield-600.jpg)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 24 Sep 2011, 02:14 am

You know there is a fantastic resource right here under your nose at AC:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.0)

A heavy dose of Floyd E. Toole, Ph.D. there.  While I respect Dr. Toole's work and his motives, and I think everyone should read his papers for the tons of valuable info therein (especially the work on small room acoustics), while reading remember he does have a bit of a skewed outlook and much of his work has not been subject to repeatability.  Not to say he's a nutcase or anything, there's some truly groundbreaking work there, but note some of his methodology has had some questions.  For some slightly different viewpoints you might try: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm)   
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/stereo%20reproduction.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/stereo%20reproduction.htm)
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: JohnR on 24 Sep 2011, 02:16 am
Could you be more specific? What methodology questions? In what way is his outlook skewed?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 24 Sep 2011, 02:25 am
Could you be more specific? What methodology questions? In what way is his outlook skewed?

Not to be contentious, but his double blind testing was rudimentary at best with tiny sample sizes and poor controls, the skewed part is that he is (was) employed by a speaker manufacturer.  This is not to invalidate the reams of fabulous work Dr Toole has done, but a cautionary note to not use him as a single source. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 24 Sep 2011, 01:08 pm
A heavy dose of Floyd E. Toole, Ph.D. there.  While I respect Dr. Toole's work and his motives, and I think everyone should read his papers for the tons of valuable info therein (especially the work on small room acoustics), while reading remember he does have a bit of a skewed outlook and much of his work has not been subject to repeatability.  Not to say he's a nutcase or anything, there's some truly groundbreaking work there, but note some of his methodology has had some questions.  For some slightly different viewpoints you might try: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm)   
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/stereo%20reproduction.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/stereo%20reproduction.htm)
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm)

I have linked SLs articles before as well Dan. There is not 100% agreement, but on most cores issues, there is. That is, it is the acoustic source that matters most, "treat" the typically furnished room with a uniform source...and the need for band aids and bandages "treatments" dissipates proportionally.

Not to be contentious, but his double blind testing was rudimentary at best with tiny sample sizes and poor controls, the skewed part is that he is (was) employed by a speaker manufacturer.  This is not to invalidate the reams of fabulous work Dr Toole has done, but a cautionary note to not use him as a single source.

I've seen this claim before, but zero evidence. Toole's tests were rudimentary?? :o Please give specifics as to the deficiencies in the blind protocols used. Sample size too small? Please look at the specific article I wanted referenced:
Quote
10 ACKNOWLEDGMENT
This paper is the compilation of data from many sources
and the result of discussions with several persons who
volunteered their time to review and comment on the
manuscript.
In addition to the Harman International Corporate
R&D Group, Sean Olive, Allan Devantier, Todd
Welti, and Don Keele, the author is grateful to Richard
Small, John Bradley, Gilbert Soulodre, Marshall Buck,
and Brad Gover for their insights.

11 REFERENCES
[1] L. Beranek, Concert and Opera Halls, How They
Sound (Acoustical Society of America, New York,
1996).
[2] M. Forsyth, Buildings for Music (MIT Press, Cambridge,
MA, 1985).
[3] C. L. S. Gilford, โ€œThe Acoustic Design of Talks Studios
and Listening Rooms,โ€ Proc. IEE, vol. 106, pp.
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PAPERS LOUDSPEAKERS AND ROOMS FOR SOUND REPRODUCTION
J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 54, No. 6, 2006 June

Dan, this isn't Toole on the pulpit. It's a unison of a virtual who's who in acoustics science. It challenges the dissenters to speak up and produce some data to contradict or question the huge body of accumulated data of these findings.
Lastly, I've also seen Toole's motives questioned and impugned before as well.
Exactly how would this benefit his employer Harman (and btw, much of his referenced work was prior to Harman when he was at the NRC...which casts a tad bit of doubt on such conspiracy theories :wink:)? What benefit(s) specifically?
Exactly how would Harman benefit from any of this publicly disseminated knowledge that many other manufacturers (including yours truly) are privy to and employ? Did the dozens and dozens of referenced non-Harman employees collaborate with Toole to Harman's benefit as well?
I understand your point that a wide viewpoint should be kept and that nothing said, including by Toole, is gospel. But to somehow suggest his outlook might be skewed by his employer is simply belied by the facts.

Oh no way, you've got a range of speakers coming?
If I did, it would be posted in Industry Ads, not here....in Neeko's M1/Dr Toole thread. :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 24 Sep 2011, 02:54 pm
I have linked SLs articles before as well Dan. There is not 100% agreement, but on most cores issues, there is......................(many etc.'s culled for space-saving)


We're actually closer to agreement than you think.  I agree that the core points of his papers are not in dispute by anyone and there is a wealth of valuable information there and everyone interested in the subject should read his work.  I was hoping that I had expressed that in my previous post, sorry if I didn't make that clear.  And the data I do have disagreements with are more proof of concept things that are introductory to his main focus, I don't think he really meant them as rigorous investigation.  However, a big however here, I've seen other people run with that data to make all kinds of pronouncements that I do have problems with.  Additionally, some of Dr Toole's conclusions allude to that incomplete testing which gives a slight taint to those conclusions for me.  BIG LETTERS HERE: Please do not take this to mean I think this invalidates all of his work!  I have some questions and disagreements after reading just about all of his papers that are publicly available, but once again, I think everyone interested should also read them and come to their own conclusions.  However snagging some folks hanging around the Harmon facility for your double blind testing is hardly rigorous sampling. 

Commercial interests.  I DO NOT think Dr. Toole is a shill for Harmon Int. only trying to gain a marketing advantage for his company.  However, you cannot ignore that well received, groundbreaking papers delivered at industry conferences don't have a positive benefit to you and your employer.  Why do you think they publish so many of them?  My brother is a scientist who just delivered a "Best Paper" at his industry's annual conference, he was stoked over the benefits it will garner for himself and his company (you may have heard of Fluke).  None of these people are working on pure research at Stanford or MIT, so understanding the context can help us all understand the information more completely.  This explains why some of the papers have pictures of JBL speakers sprinkled through them, and no Polks.

Please, please, I am not impugning Dr. Toole's work, just taking the realities of working in an industry environment into account.  I would say the same about Linkwitz, Van Den Hul, Van Alstine, my brother, anyone publishing industry papers.  Good info, make sure to validate, and always come to your own conclusions.       
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 24 Sep 2011, 09:28 pm
Given all that AJ would you say any coaxial speaker would require no or very minimal treatment, or are you saying there is something special in your design?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 25 Sep 2011, 02:43 pm
Given all that AJ would you say any coaxial speaker would require no or very minimal treatment, or are you saying there is something special in your design?

I'm saying barring reductio ad absurdum examples, little if any treatment should be needed if the acoustic source uniformly radiates into the furnished living room (above the schroeder frequency). Coaxial/point source radiation types, in general, have the upper hand here, but unfortunately, most have severe problems on axis. The drivers that I always cherry pick, including the KEFs, do not.
Is there something special about this? No. I don't think so.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 26 Sep 2011, 07:36 pm
The 8" subwoofer driver does (about) 20Hz-200Hz...Why would you want to high pass the monitors? They make very good bass, IMO...

State of the art bass is a distributed array with at least 3 subs (one must be above ear level).  4 subs is my preference.  The SAM-1 appear to make excellent bass.  If they do, it would indeed be preferred to run the SAM-1 full range if the user adds one sub or two (this would not be an ideal distributed sub array for various reasons, but would include some of its advantages). 

Only if the user adds 3-4 subs would it possibly (but possibly not) be preferred to high-pass the SAM-1.     
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 26 Sep 2011, 09:17 pm
I'm saying barring reductio ad absurdum examples, little if any treatment should be needed if the acoustic source uniformly radiates into the furnished living room (above the schroeder frequency). Coaxial/point source radiation types, in general, have the upper hand here, but unfortunately, most have severe problems on axis. The drivers that I always cherry pick, including the KEFs, do not.
Is there something special about this? No. I don't think so.

cheers,

AJ

 Sorry for the absurd questions, barring actual study, one of the pleasures of being an audio consumer is the ability to use the brute force method and just ask. Forgive my ignorance.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 26 Sep 2011, 10:46 pm
Sorry for the absurd questions, barring actual study, one of the pleasures of being an audio consumer is the ability to use the brute force method and just ask. Forgive my ignorance.

Eh? Your question wasn't absurd at all. It was quite reasonable. :scratch:
Feel free to ask more. What James stated is also true, multiple subs are a great solution to bass issues, as they smooth the response over a wide area.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: mikecole on 27 Dec 2011, 10:12 pm
For those of you that have heard these, how do they do in the foot tapping department. Do they get the ebb and flow of the music? Also, I have seen the word smooth used quite a bit. Does this mean they sound too polite? Or is it just that they do not sound harsh? These sure sound like they could be a good solution to the problem I have with my monitor size speakers. Although they can do bass (at least the 40Hz type), they do not really have enough weight to that bass.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 28 Dec 2011, 12:13 pm
I've been listening to my SAM 1s for about 4 months now. They are not what I would call a 'polite' speaker. What I dig about them is that they can be both smooth and punchy/dynamic at once. Meaning that there is a fullness to the presentation without harshness, and yet punchy, impactful sounds are present in a very live way.

In room freq response is spot on, which is what gets my toes tappin'.  8)

And if you're looking for deep, well done bass in a monitor form factor without the need for a sub, I don't think that these can be beat, especially given their price. (You couldn't build them for this.)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 29 Dec 2011, 04:45 am
Seems like a great choice for small room full range.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: mikecole on 29 Dec 2011, 12:31 pm
Neekomax, thanks for info.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Chinaski on 29 Dec 2011, 02:05 pm
These excel in the toe-tapping department!  Best part is they beg you to sit and listen, especially to your best recordings.  And they're quite kind to lesser recordings, too.  I seldom, if ever, find my head critically analyzing what I'm hearing instead of simply being taken along on the musician's journey.   These speakers will reward your ears handsomely listening to Beck's Paper Tiger and Round the Bend, or Annie Lennox's The Hurting Time, and many of the Rudy Van Gelder jazz remasters, but, and to me this is the cool thing about the SAM 1s is they will do justice to edgy, guitar-laden metal and rock, say Tool or Rage Against the Machine (not that my tastes go too deep into metal territory).  So the SAM 1s are quite the good all-rounder.

I've had my SAM 1s for 3.5 months and the bass is quite nice, deep, and full.  I have a largish 2-story room, very open to 3 other adjacent rooms.  Mine sit along the long wall about 3.5 feet away from the wall.  The bass I feel when sitting up in my loft is even slightly more impactful than the bass I feel sitting in my fave listening position.  Alas, bass does what it's gonna do unless you add something more to the room.  The bass I feel up in the loft is nearly indistinguishable from the bass my sub delivered.  They will deliver some "punch to the chest," too.  I used to always use my sub prior to getting the SAM 1s (but my previous monitors had very little low end by comparison) and now 99.9% of my listening consists of SAM 1s only (the sub, a near mint a/d/s ms3/u model, is only used during movies and TV now, or when I want to put a live band in my space cranked up to "11" (typically spurred on by consuming one too many Sierra Nevada Torpedos)). 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: mikecole on 29 Dec 2011, 04:41 pm
Chinaski, thanks for the extra info. The toe-tapping ability of a speaker is pretty important to me. I geneally play my music at lower volumes (I'm married), but when my wife is out I like to raise the volume a bit. Although I generally listen to classic rock type stuff, my old ears are starting to like the easier listening type stuff also. I was looking for a standmount that had a slightly weightier presentation that what I have now. Like I said, the speakers I have now can go low, but the weight is missing on all but the best recordings. In addition, does anyone know what the real  minimum wattage needed is? My tube integrated only puts out 15 watts, but has no problem driving my 4 ohm 89db speakers.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 30 Dec 2011, 12:29 am
In addition, does anyone know what the real  minimum wattage needed is? My tube integrated only puts out 15 watts, but has no problem driving my 4 ohm 89db speakers.
Hi Mike,

There really is no "minimum wattage" requirement per se. Rather, there is a "maximum volume" requirement...and that is set by you :wink:.
The M1's are around 86-87db sensitivity free space. Things get a bit more complicated when one tries to determine maximum perceived loudness of a stereo pair in a semi-lossy reverberant room, at the listening position.
Let's just put it this way, one of my many amps is a Qinpu A6000 mkII http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/qinpu2/system_3.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/qinpu2/system_3.html), which is rated at 16 w/ch and has no problem driving the M1's to room filling levels in my albeit small house (room approx 17x16). Certainly won't hit concert levels, nor have the sort of unrestrained dynamics of my 300w/ch Tripath, but that is to be expected. Do also keep in mind that your amp will be driving it above 200hz, the built in plate amp drives the subwoofer below.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: mikecole on 31 Dec 2011, 06:54 pm
AJ, thanks. Sounds like 15 watts in a 11x14 room should not be a problem. It looks like I'll have to do some reading on the KEF driver, see if its something I might like.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 24 Feb 2012, 05:37 pm
Because most suck. Badly.
The "issues" have never been with the format, always the implementation/engineering (mainly the surround/throat). TAD, KEF and Genelec have finally stepped to the plate. More are sure to follow (think "China").

...and now back to our regular mini-monitor programming.... :D

cheers,

AJ

Hi AJ,

I am interested in this post from the GR Research mini monitor thread. I thought it might be a bit better to follow up here. I am interested to know what your experience has been with these drivers. How do they compare to the Uni-Q. I know the TAD is super spendy, if I remember correctly they were around $1800 a pair from TAD! Your monitor is very intriguing  :thumb:
Paul
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 24 Feb 2012, 08:43 pm
Hi AJ,

I am interested in this post from the GR Research mini monitor thread. I thought it might be a bit better to follow up here. I am interested to know what your experience has been with these drivers. How do they compare to the Uni-Q. I know the TAD is super spendy, if I remember correctly they were around $1800 a pair from TAD! Your monitor is very intriguing  :thumb:
Paul
Hi Paul,

They all sound great! :wink:.
Keep in mind, the other AJ (Jones) worked at KEF prior to TAD, so there is a great deal of similarities in the design. I think the main difference, other than the treated aluminum vs beryllium, is the KEF use of the "tangerine" phase shield, which eliminates the typical on axis dip seen in (nearly) every coaxial, even the TAD http://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-compact-reference-cr1-loudspeaker-measurements (http://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-compact-reference-cr1-loudspeaker-measurements). I also think they sound far more similar than dissimilar. I wouldn't look forward to trying to pick them out in a blind test....but of course, we don't listen blind at home, or at shows.
I have only heard the Genelecs briefly and not in a "listening room" scenario, but they sounded very good indeed. Don't get me wrong, unquestionably, there are differences. Commensurate with the price differences? Not IMO.
For what I'm trying to do with my design, the KEF is the driver.

regards,

AJ

p.s. Come on down to Axpona or LSAF and hear for yourself :-)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: eclein on 18 Mar 2012, 03:13 am
AJ I heard your speakers today at a gathering in NJ.....excellent, we didn't do any tweaking as far as setup, they just put them on stands and boom they are really special. I've always loved JBL's but my next speakers will be yours. We need to talk about how to proceed......they will be perfect for my room.....I'll PM you in next few days...Thanks Ed L.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 18 Mar 2012, 03:33 am
You're gonna love 'em Ed  :thumb: 

Best sound for the money, IMO. Bass rocks too!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: tabrink on 18 Mar 2012, 03:48 am
Yes.. I am fabulously impressed with AJ. His attention to client should be noted as exceptional. Looking forward to  acquiring something in a smaller footprint from him as soon as he perfects it.
Tom
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: eclein on 18 Mar 2012, 10:39 am
The quality of the detail is what really brought me into the music like I haven't been drawn into lately. When I left the AC,AN guys I was like, "I have some work to do" and "Where the F___ am I getting $ ??.??".
 
We were listening over and over to a Casandra Wilson tune with the neatest percussion groove and stylization, a type you don't hear often because a large majority of people think its a time waster until they hear it. This tune was done well, mics were placed perfectly at one point I blurted out, "I know that last stick hit dented the plastic head cover because I heard the change in the sound. You guys are going "yeah right Ed??" but if you play as long as I have you can tell stick material, cymbals being played, a general idea of drum head composition and little nuances that you just hear all the time and know exactly whats happened.

 The electronics were Tommys "Cherry" amp I believe and Mike's room and the owner just set them up and the music started. You could kind of hear them focus in and then it was "bye now I'm gone into another world"....LOL...in otherwords..Perfect for me!!! We were gathered in NJ and the owner of the speakers drove in from Connecticut (what a name for a state) but I always forget names...super nice guy.
 
 Does AJ just have this one model so far or is there another type yet???? They are made so well, everybody that lifted them said they were built out like tanks. We also heard Gallo 3.2?-the ones with the orbs and the big soup pot speaker turned in. A big black covering over it all.."Reference" model...whatever. They were excellent also but AJ's to me just drew me in faster and I found myself marveling at the sound.
 Its funny as "Lonewolf" and I were discussing stand mounted monitors we have heard and I asked him "what do I get next?" and we both mentioned these and then found out some were there...very, very nice and as I have heard very affordable for most folks...not I said Ed but most---LOL...hahahahaha :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: A great day that got me thinking of other things instead of my recent loss. Thanks Bill "Pumpkinman" for the ride. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: dangerbird on 18 Mar 2012, 03:38 pm
I hope to get my ear on a pair of these soon.I'm gonna be in the Tampa/St Pete area soon,and I've heard alot of good reviews about them,,very good indeed. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: shadowlight on 18 Mar 2012, 03:54 pm
the owner of the speakers drove in from Connecticut (what a name for a state) but I always forget names...super nice guy.
 

That would be Jim (AC Handle Hogg)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: rollo on 18 Mar 2012, 04:43 pm
  AJ Hi whats up ??


charles
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 18 Mar 2012, 05:16 pm
AJ I heard your speakers today at a gathering in NJ.....excellent, we didn't do any tweaking as far as setup, they just put them on stands and boom they are really special. I've always loved JBL's but my next speakers will be yours. We need to talk about how to proceed......they will be perfect for my room.....I'll PM you in next few days...Thanks Ed L.
Thanks Ed. Hey, the original at CapFest had...JBL subwoofer drivers :wink:. Still not sure if I can top the bass performance of those drivers with the million+ others I've tried. Not sure how many folks would want that JBL logo looking back at them, but you may be the exception :lol:.
Glad you liked them.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 18 Mar 2012, 05:23 pm
Does AJ just have this one model so far or is there another type yet???? They are made so well, everybody that lifted them said they were built out like tanks. We also heard Gallo 3.2?-the ones with the orbs and the big soup pot speaker turned in. A big black covering over it all.."Reference" model...whatever. They were excellent also but AJ's to me just drew me in faster and I found myself marveling at the sound.
 Its funny as "Lonewolf" and I were discussing stand mounted monitors we have heard and I asked him "what do I get next?" and we both mentioned these and then found out some were there...very, very nice and as I have heard very affordable for most folks...not I said Ed but most---LOL...hahahahaha :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: A great day that got me thinking of other things instead of my recent loss. Thanks Bill "Pumpkinman" for the ride. :thumb:
I have a larger model (not yet on the website and I'm terrible at photos, so the Stereophile one will have to do) http://www.stereophile.com/content/soundfield-audio-0 (http://www.stereophile.com/content/soundfield-audio-0)
Btw, I still have Lonewolf to thank for half my demo music. Those NY raves have some real gems and he was kind enough to give me the sampler Cds at RMAF.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 18 Mar 2012, 05:25 pm
  AJ Hi whats up ??

charles
You've got mail  :wink:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: eclein on 19 Mar 2012, 06:19 pm
Great chatting with you this morning AJ! I look forward to checking these out!!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 18 May 2012, 09:32 pm
AJ dropped my pair off at FedEx today :P Can't wait to see those Tang Band W8-740P drivers move!! It's crazy, now at my monitor museum I have:

Selah Verita
Selah Aura Jr.
Ascend CBM 170se
Wharfedale Pro Diamond 8 (passive)

What's one more pair right?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 18 May 2012, 09:33 pm
Awesome!

I wish AJ would send me a pair too.   :green:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 18 May 2012, 10:00 pm
Can't wait to see those Tang Band W8-740P drivers move!!

Sooo, he went with the TB drivers, huh?  Could be a great replacement for the JBL car audio sub I heard them with as this TB sub sort of straddles the car audio/audiophile/HT market.   Fs: 28 Hz, I wonder how low they go in AJ's box.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: TomS on 18 May 2012, 10:40 pm
Awesome!

I wish AJ would send me a pair too.   :green:
Ooooh a tour for a beater pair maybe  :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 18 May 2012, 10:40 pm
AJ dropped my pair off at FedEx today :P Can't wait to see those Tang Band W8-740P drivers move!!
Don't jinx us Paul, let them deliver, unscathed...before we get too excited :wink:.

I wish AJ would send me a pair too.   :green:
If you go to CapFest, I'll give you a pair....of Newcastles :green:

Sooo, he went with the TB drivers, huh?  Could be a great replacement for the JBL car audio sub I heard them with as this TB sub sort of straddles the car audio/audiophile/HT market.   Fs: 28 Hz, I wonder how low they go in AJ's box.
Dan, I think we can both agree the JBLs rocked. I think we can also both agree that no self respecting audiophile on earth wants "JBL Car Subs" :o in their rig, SQ, performance, whatever be damned. 'Tis the way of the world.
The production version never had JBLs, used ED's instead. Looked great, sounded great (but not better than the JBL)...so naturally...they discontinued it.
I've probably tried every 8" sub available (including Scan Speak, etc.), except the GR/Rythmik servo...still no new amp available (only the existing too large one).
The TB's are on par with the JBLs, maybe a smidge better. I've hit them with the usual fare at silly levels, Firebird Suite, etc. (that would turn 7" 2 ways into smoking confetti :lol:) and they maintain composure. Extension is still 20-30's in every room I've had them in. If I bring a pair to Capfest I'll measure them in front of you over a Newcastle. Unless that Inner Urban guy shows up :wink:
I'd have to assume you'll be there.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 19 May 2012, 12:57 am
Awesome!

I wish AJ would send me a pair too.   :green:

I think you deserve a pair for being such a good AC citizen :D Man they'd sing with your N-cores. Mine will get a nice dose of SDS-254.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: MaxCast on 19 May 2012, 01:15 am
Ooooh a tour for a beater pair maybe  :thumb:

I'm first  :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 21 May 2012, 07:45 pm
FedEx is just to fast :thumb:
Speakers will be coming to the office when I'm not around, the one day in months I'm not here all day. I may have to hazard a secret mission to the office. Head down, baseball cap on :thumb: It's sad, we live in a nice neighborhood in Chicago, but once it's baseball season (or around Christmas), anything not bolted down is promptly stolen.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: rollo on 21 May 2012, 07:58 pm
  I have a pair from AJ in NY for demo in the tri-State area.  if anyone is interested. Just PM me .  These little overachievers are getting some great press and reactions from the average Joe. They are not my Pipedreams but Man O Man they make ya wonder. Very well done AJ.


charles
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Dr.Cmnsky on 21 May 2012, 08:05 pm
I hope to get my ear on a pair of these soon.I'm gonna be in the Tampa/St Pete area soon,and I've heard alot of good reviews about them,,very good indeed. :thumb:

Did you find a set to audition in Tampa?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: S Clark on 21 May 2012, 08:13 pm
  I have a pair from AJ in NY for demo in the tri-State area.  if anyone is interested. Just PM me .  These little overachievers are getting some great press and reactions from the average Joe. They are not my Pipedreams but Man O Man they make ya wonder. Very well done AJ.


charles
I heard them at the LSAF and was blown away.  Now compared to Pipedreams....
     
     List price of Soundfield monitor X 75 = list price of the Pipedreams  :o

I could swap my LS9s for a pair and not be terribly unhappy.
Scott
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 21 May 2012, 08:35 pm
I could swap my LS9s for a pair and not be terribly unhappy.
Scott

WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW  :o
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: SlushPuppy on 21 May 2012, 08:39 pm
WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW  :o

X 2  :icon_surprised:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 21 May 2012, 08:47 pm
Wow indeed!! Looks like tomorrow I'll swing by the office incognito to pick them up. You guys pushed me over the edge!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: S Clark on 21 May 2012, 08:55 pm
X 2  :icon_surprised:
Ok, that's not to say that there wouldn't be some sacrifices. But the LS9's are huge, completely dominate a multipurpose room, definitely test the limits of my wife's patience, and sound amazing. But the Soundfields sound amazing also. Not as big, not as orchestral, not quite as detailed, but excellent imaging, soundstage, and performance ambiance.  I think they are the best small speaker I've heard (including Fritz, Harbeth). They run a close second to the GR Super V from 100Hz up. Nothing that I have heard gets the bottom like the V series servo woofers or the LS9.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 21 May 2012, 09:50 pm
I think they are the best small speaker I've heard (including Fritz, Harbeth). They run a close second to the GR Super V from 100Hz up.

 double WWWWOOOOOOOOOOOWWW :o

These just popped back onto my radar. Option 4 for next speaker.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 10:16 pm
Sheesh.  Do I need to purchase a pair for a tour?   :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: TomS on 21 May 2012, 10:29 pm
Sheesh.  Do I need to purchase a pair for a tour?   :rotflmao:
A few NCores, Soundfields, music, crazy audiophiles, and an RV. Road trip  :green:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 10:31 pm
A few NCores, Soundfields, music, crazy audiophiles, and an RV. Road trip  :green:

Just like Zu Audio....it obviously works very well for him.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: SlushPuppy on 21 May 2012, 10:39 pm
Ok, that's not to say that there wouldn't be some sacrifices. But the LS9's are huge, completely dominate a multipurpose room, definitely test the limits of my wife's patience, and sound amazing. But the Soundfields sound amazing also. Not as big, not as orchestral, not quite as detailed, but excellent imaging, soundstage, and performance ambiance.  I think they are the best small speaker I've heard (including Fritz, Harbeth). They run a close second to the GR Super V from 100Hz up. Nothing that I have heard gets the bottom like the V series servo woofers or the LS9.

Oh, I knew what you meant. I have Maggies and would making trade-offs if I went the small monitor route, too. I'd sure like to hear these someday to see what everyone's raving about. The price is certainly reasonable.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: shadowlight on 22 May 2012, 12:09 am
I've probably tried every 8" sub available (including Scan Speak, etc.), except the GR/Rythmik servo...still no new amp available (only the existing too large one).


AJ,

Are you potentially looking at getting the 8" servo sub?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 22 May 2012, 01:28 am
AJ,

Are you potentially looking at getting the 8" servo sub?
Sure. Always looking. Won't work until they get the new amp sorted out though.
And it's not like the current version is coming up short here. The Servo might give a bit more headroom/cleanness, but below the schroeder frequency of the room (and often above), bass quality is a room/source interaction issue, especially with a monopole such as these, with LF capability to excite the full spectrum of modes all the way down into the sparse region. At LSAF, leaning forward just a few inches on the sofa made a significant difference, as the wall directly behind it represented a pressure maxima. I had a few folks do just that to demonstrate the point.
Btw, are you in the NY area per chance? Might want to check with Rollo. If not, should have one at Capfest, between myself or Rollo. No need to cyber-speculate when you can experience first hand. :wink:
If I can ever clear the backlog during my spare time (also sparse, with 50hr minimum work weeks), I'll try to cobble up a tour pair (there is already a long ago promised list, so don't get too excited).
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 23 May 2012, 11:13 pm
They came in without issue AJ :thumb: There was a hole in the box, but on the amp side, and no damage.

Almost done with my first song. Tide from Trentemoller, off of Into The Great Wide Yonder. Only expletives suffice for now  :thumb:

revision, by expletives, I mean in the good sense!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 23 May 2012, 11:34 pm
A few NCores, Soundfields, music, crazy audiophiles, and an RV. Road trip  :green:

 How do you think the Ncore top end would mate up with the BASH low end? Or is there a way to disable the BASH amp and run the whole thing with an NCORE?

 Cause these speakers might be perfect for my living room mains.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 24 May 2012, 01:51 am
How do you think the Ncore top end would mate up with the BASH low end?
It would see a very high impedance highway and seek the nearest off ramp. :wink:

Or is there a way to disable the BASH amp and run the whole thing with an NCORE?
No, as the function of the subwoofer plate amp is far more than just amplification. It's also multiple filters. There would be zero benefit and much detriment in doing so.
The NCORE should have no problem driving them >200hz, the vast majority of the music spectrum.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: shadowlight on 24 May 2012, 02:02 am
Sure. Always looking. Won't work until they get the new amp sorted out though.
And it's not like the current version is coming up short here. The Servo might give a bit more headroom/cleanness, but below the schroeder frequency of the room (and often above), bass quality is a room/source interaction issue, especially with a monopole such as these, with LF capability to excite the full spectrum of modes all the way down into the sparse region. At LSAF, leaning forward just a few inches on the sofa made a significant difference, as the wall directly behind it represented a pressure maxima. I had a few folks do just that to demonstrate the point.
Btw, are you in the NY area per chance? Might want to check with Rollo. If not, should have one at Capfest, between myself or Rollo. No need to cyber-speculate when you can experience first hand. :wink:
If I can ever clear the backlog during my spare time (also sparse, with 50hr minimum work weeks), I'll try to cobble up a tour pair (there is already a long ago promised list, so don't get too excited).

I heard Jim's (Hogg) SA1 couple of weeks ago at the NY RAVE gathering and enjoyed listening to them.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 24 May 2012, 05:45 am
Thanks AJ, and it's not a concern really, mostly just curious. Your speaker has already got about the highest praise possible, I'm sure the bass produced by the built in amp is fabulous.

 If I got them they'd be running off a Virtue Two.2 for quite a while anyway (hardly suffering there).
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 24 May 2012, 01:05 pm
Very happy after night 1 with my SAM-1's. It is certainly too early to render any serious judgements, but I have a couple of general assessments which are self evident  :thumb:

They have the big room filling sound as coaxialy advertised
They sound quite nice at low volumes
The female voice is rendered with a beauty/delicacy that is just so enticing
Sound nice and smooth, never harsh

My wife works long and irregular hours, and is often catching up on sleep at home. The low volume playback was an unexpected benefit to the monitors. I had fun listening to them last night after she hit the hay. Certainly the ability to control bass volume here is very nice. Goosing the the bass a tad at low volumes fills out the sound nicely.

I still need to play with toe in a bit, but I just plopped them down on my stands and they sounded great! I also needed a speaker that could handle acoustically challenged room, without the need much in the way of treatments, or changes to room layout. I have a feeling that the SAM-1's will come through in this regard.

But after all this is just after my first few hours with them, so I am certain I will get a much better understanding of them with time.

Great work AJ!!!!!!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 24 May 2012, 03:33 pm
I heard Jim's (Hogg) SA1 couple of weeks ago at the NY RAVE gathering and enjoyed listening to them.
IIRC, Jim's was the last ED version I shipped. The one Rollo is bringing to the next RAVE has the TB subs. Not sure if you're attending that one.

Thanks AJ, and it's not a concern really, mostly just curious. Your speaker has already got about the highest praise possible, I'm sure the bass produced by the built in amp is fabulous.
If I got them they'd be running off a Virtue Two.2 for quite a while anyway (hardly suffering there).
I actually had my eyes on those Virtues a while back, as a "travel" amp for the audio shows circuit. Perfect size! Plenty enough power as well, unless you have a large room and like higher SPLs. Seemed for a while they had a hard time keeping them in stock.


Certainly the ability to control bass volume here is very nice. Goosing the the bass a tad at low volumes fills out the sound nicely.

I still need to play with toe in a bit, but I just plopped them down on my stands and they sounded great! I also needed a speaker that could handle acoustically challenged room, without the need much in the way of treatments, or changes to room layout. I have a feeling that the SAM-1's will come through in this regard.

But after all this is just after my first few hours with them, so I am certain I will get a much better understanding of them with time.

Great work AJ!!!!!!
Thanks Paul. Yes, do play with the bass level and toe-in/positioning in general, they are designed for the room to be your friend, not enemy...and feel free to crank them if the wife is out :lol:

cheers,

AJ

p.s. is there a "Multi-quote" function that I'm missing here on the board? :oops:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: rollo on 24 May 2012, 04:27 pm
   We will be using  Arion HS 500 hybrid Class "D" mono blocks and a Miracle Audio Preamp at the Rave meet. Hey maybe Hogg will bring the N-Cores, just not sure if he owns them yet.


charles
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 29 May 2012, 02:23 pm
These maxi-monitors have exceeded my expectations in every way. I was expecting quite a bit too. I did not really need new speakers, or maybe I should say, I did not realize at first that I needed new speakers until listening to these:thumb: $1300 ain't chump change for me, but at this price I was able to pick them up and give them a shot. Tremendous value, and a superb buying experience. These may be just the monitors you never knew you really needed!!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Dr.Cmnsky on 30 May 2012, 03:15 am
The Monitor 1's and its reviews brought me to this forum... but.... herm..... coming soon?

(http://soundfieldaudio.net/images/75120c7f6342a3acffe2db9ccac8ad14.jpg)  :oops:

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 30 May 2012, 04:40 am
not to speaker of the 1812 Overtures. Good name BTW.

http://tinyurl.com/csz89ud

This configuration seems to be catching on - probably for good reason:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dynamikks/1.html
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 31 May 2012, 06:11 pm
This configuration seems to be catching on - probably for good reason:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dynamikks/1.html

 :o
Wow. Should I sue him before he sues me? :lol:
Maybe we can claim parallel universes. :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 16 Aug 2012, 09:15 pm
AJ tell us about the new HT monitor! http://soundfieldaudio.net/Coming_Soon.html
Curved PE box so no amp?
What were the design goals?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 17 Aug 2012, 12:51 am
Hi Paul
AJ tell us about the new HT monitor! http://soundfieldaudio.net/Coming_Soon.html
What were the design goals?
It's a higher than M1 sensitivity (92db) design that can be used for music and also HT where fairly high levels are required. Coaxial driver for very uniform coverage, smooth of axis, etc.
Passive version would require a sub for LF. Active version would utilize a subwoofer (8") in the enclosure and an amplifier built into the matching stands.

Curved PE box so no amp?
Yes, curved cabs, so no on board amp, passive as shown.
Whole project is on back burner as I try to wrap up some other projects. No time frame or date for production...other than eventually it will happen. :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 26 Aug 2012, 07:44 pm
Soundfield Audio Monitor 1 Review


I first became aware of Soundfield Audio and met AJ at the 2011 Capital Audio Fest in Rockville MD.  I ended up spending more time in the Soundfield Audio room than any other.  As I had commented in a prior post, the Monitor 1 was among my favorite speakers at the show.  I was amazed that these speakers, at $1k then, were competing, and IMO often beating, other speakers at the show with price ranges into 6 figures!

When AJ contacted me earlier this year and asked if I would be interested in a speaker tour of the Monitor 1, I told him I wasn't in the market for speakers but would be happy to try them out and give my feedback.  I must admit I was curious about how they would sound in my room with my equipment, and frankly, I thought it would be fun.

So my turn came around and as promised I'm posting my review of the Monitor 1.

Me

I've been into audio since the late 70's.  I guess you could say I'm an audiophile since I'm pretty picky about sound, but not to the extent where I can hear differences between well made cables, interconnects, power conditioning, etc.  I'm not into vinyl (way too fussy for me) and don't think digital is evil (CDs are perfectly capable of fantastic sound).  I believe by far the biggest impact on sound is the recording/mastering and the speakers/room.

Room/Setup

My room is about 26ft x 14ft with a cathedral ceiling that slopes from about 9ft at the long front wall to about 18ft at the back.  Half the room is a dining area and the other my living/music/HT room.  It's open to the upstairs landing behind the living area.  I estimate the volume to be about 5500 cubic ft.  The front speakers are on the long front wall.  The prime listening position (LP) is about 8ft from the L&R speakers.  The M1s are about 1.5ft from the wall behind (back of cabinet to wall), 8.5ft apart, and angled in so that they cross just in front of the prime LP (per AJ's recommendations).  The floor is berber carpet/padding over concrete.  There are no room treatments, just the usual living room furnishings.  There is a 60" plasma between the front speakers.

Equipment

Equipment includes a Parasound Classic 5250 amp (250wpc), Anthem AVM20 pre/pro, Rotel RCD-961 CD player, Oppo 980H DVD/DVD-A/SACD player, Pioneer 320 BD player,  M2Tech hiFace USB to SPDIF converter (for playing music files from my laptop), and a SVS 16-46PC+ powered sub (525w).  Center channel is a 3 way NHT AudioCenter 2, and surrounds are NHT SB1 (I mention this because it relates to how well the M1 works with them for HT/multichannel audio).  For those interested in such things, speaker cables (12 gauge), interconnects, and power cables are nothing special, no high end/expensive stuff here.  I have no measuring equipment other than a Rat Shack meter for setting levels, so I cannot comment on how the M1 may measure in room.

Since this is a speaker review, I'll mention I've also owned Magnepan SMG (about 4 years), ADS L1290 (about 25 years!), and my current Salk HT2-TL (took delivery in Feb 2011).


Media

Everything!  CD, hi res FLAC files, lowly mp3 files, DVD-Audio, SACD, DVD-Video, and Blu ray.  Music played includes most all genres.

So get on with it, how do they sound?

I'm happy to say much like I remember from CAF 2011.  AJ mentioned one goal of the M1 was a speaker that sounded more consistant from room to room without the need for elaborate room treatments.  Based on what other owners have posted and my experience hearing them at CAF and now at home, I'd say AJ got it pretty right.  It was very easy to find a speaker position that worked very well in my room.

In my room the M1s present a large, wide, deep, and very cohesive soundstage, recording dependent of course.  They easily "disappear" within the soundstage, a quality I like very much.  They have a very "open" sound that doesn't sound like it's coming from a box.

Imaging, while not razor sharp like some speakers I've heard, is still very, very good.  Images are properly placed within the soundstage without sounding unnaturally focused, much like I would hear at a live performance (for reference, I don't sit in the front rows of live performances).

I've also noticed when set up as AJ suggests, the stereo image is very stable even from different listening positions.  The "sweet spot" is quite wide, and even when sitting very far off axis (45 degrees) you still get a decent stereo image without it completely collapsing to the nearest speaker.  Very impressive.

Resolution is excellent.  Details and nuances are apparent without sounding too bright or harsh.

The M1s excel in tonal balance in my room.  These speakers get along very well with my room without any special room treatments or EQ/processing applied.  Very smooth, natural sounding, and  balanced from bottom to top.  I've listened to the M1s for hours at a time without a hint of fatigue.

In terms of coherency, probably due to the coax driver, when listening to the M1s I'm simply not aware of the separate drivers.  It all sounds like it's coming from a single driver to my ears.  You can sit pretty close to the M1s without losing that coherent sound, a good thing with my limited speaker position/LP options (I cannot get more than 8ft from them).

I've mention in posts before that the best positions for imaging and soundstage just do not work very well for bass in my room; a sub is a must for me.  Having said that, the M1s do present a smoother bass response in my room than other speakers I've owned since living here.  While bass doesn't extend as low in my room as I've heard the M1s go at CAF, it's still pretty smooth and extended.  I credit this, at least partially, to the ability to adjust each bass driver's level to suit the space and one' taste.  The M1 has plenty of punch and drums sound very real/natural to me; very impressive for a "monitor".  These are some very full range sounding speakers that can live happily without a sub for music.  Now for HT, I'd still recommend a sub (the M1s are really good, but not miracle workers!).

Midrange is spot on to my ears.  Voices sound very natural, clear, and real.  There's no unnatural emphasis or deficiencies that I can hear.

Treble is extended, smooth, and detailed without harshness or excessive brightness.  Again, I can listen to the M1 for hours with no fatigue. 

My experience at CAF 2011 showed that the M1 could be very dynamic sounding.  I'm glad to say the experience in my home has been much the same.  Drum/percussion whacks and crescendos are very impressive indeed.  Again, a full range speaker experience in a monitor package.  I'm sure many high efficiency designs will provide much better dynamics than the M1, but for me, when paired with a good sub, the M1 totally satisfies for both music and HT (I require speakers that can pull double duty since I only have room for one system).  With my sub, they had no problem filling my room with clean, dynamic sound as loud as I could stand.  Movies with dynamic soundtracks were very impressive and I didn't feel like I was missing anything.

Putting all the above SQ observations together, the M1s are simply great sounding speakers that make it very easy to enjoy the performance and forget about the speakers/equipment.  I've thoroughly enjoyed them the while they were here.

Now for some non AQ related impressions (yes, they also can be important to some owners ;)).

I can't really comment on cosmetics/fit/finish as I've only seen the prototypes AJ had at 2011 CAF and this demo pair which look like they've traveled quite a bit.  I also understand AJ has made some design changes, that do not affect sound quality, that I'm sure would make the M1 more attractive than what I've seen.  The pictures I've seen from other owners certainly look more attractive.

Personally, I do not like the look of exposed drivers.  Its unattractive and detracts from my listening experience.  The demo pair didn't come with grills.  I don't know if the M1s come with grills since all the pictures on the website don't' show any, but I did see a picture from an M1 owner that did have grills; it looked very nice and more "finished".

I'm not sure if this is unique to this demo pair, but one complaint I have is the binding posts when using bare wire (my preference).  For some reason the holes are aligned vertically so that you have to negotiate the wire between the posts then down, or up, through the hole.  Not only was this frustrating, especially with my 12 gauge wire, it seems accidentally shorting the terminals is a real possibility if you aren't real careful.  The posts should be placed so that the holes are oriented horizontally so you can insert the wire from the side without having to go between the posts.

Another minor annoyance is the LED power indicator light on the plate amp.  It lights up the wall behind the speakers.  I like the room dark when enjoying movies and often when listening to music (helps make the room "disappear").  However, this is a minor detail than can be taken care of with some black electrical tape.

Second Opinion

A fellow AudioCircle member, who has built several GR Research models/kits, came by to hear the M1s.  In short, he said they are some of the finest sounding monitors he's heard and couldn't find a single thing to criticize about the sound.  He mentioned they sound just right with a wide variety of music and could be listened to all day without fatigue.

Perphaps AJ may have another customer coming his way (hey AJ, where's that commission check.....LOL!).

Comparisons

Some have asked for my comment on how the M1 compares to my Salk HT2-TL, so here are a few things I noticed when comparing them.

I was surprised how well the M1 held up against the HT2-TL.  In some aspects I preferred the M1 and in others I preferred the HT2-TL.  I believe much of this has to do with how each speaker interacts with my room given my limited options for speaker and listening position, and of course personal taste is a huge factor, so keep this in mind when reading these comments.  YMMV greatly. ;)

Overall soundstage and the ability to disappear were better with the M1.  Imaging is more precise with the HT2-TL without being too precise or unnatural. Depending on the recording the HT2-TL can present an image that's scary real!  The sweetspot was quite a bit wider with the M1 in my room and the sound a more consistent when moving around the room.

Tonal balance with the M1 was better and more natural to my ears.  The HT2-TL sounds a bit fuller than the M1.  Depending on the recording, this characteristic may favor the M1 or the HT2-TL to my ears.  Overall, for my taste, I have felt the need to apply a little EQ to the HT2-TL, I didn't with the M1.  Again, I believe this is at least partly due to room/speaker/position interaction since when I auditioned the HT2-TL at Dennis Murphy's place they sounded very natural and balanced without any feeling like I needed to tweek anything.

The M1 was also just a little more coherent.  However, this difference quickly disappeared if I moved back an additional couple feet from the HT2-TL.  I think perhaps the coax driver allows closer listening positions without losing coherence.

Resolution is better on the HT2-TL.  I believe this is largely due to the excellent RAAL tweeter.  The tweeter on the M1 is no slouch, but the RAAL simply just sounds more "real" to my ears.  This is particularly apparent with things such as triangles, cymbals, and such.  Strings also sound more "real" on the HT2-TL.  The HT2-TL sounds a little "cleaner" (for lack of a better word) than the M1 (lower distortion maybe?).  When you get lower in the range however (different kinds of drums and such), the M1 seemed to sound a little more realistic.

While I've not seen a current M1, I seriously doubt at their price point the cabinet work/finish is up to Salk standards.  If you want great sounding speakers that also look like high quality furniture (can be very important for WAF) then Salk is hard to beat, they are simply beautiful, even with their "standard" veneers/finishes.

Readers Digest Version (I hope I didn't bore you too much)

Hehehe.....sorry if i got a little carried away writing this review.

Bottom line, the M1 is a seriously good speaker that I enjoyed very much with all kinds of music and HT.  At it's current price, its also a serious audio bargain.  Anyone shopping for speakers should put the Soundfield Monitor 1 on their audition shortlist, even if you are looking at speakers multiple times it's price and think they are too cheap to consider (you might be pleasantly surprised).
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 1 Sep 2012, 03:39 pm
I thought I would add this info to my review......

I really enjoyed the Monitor 1, so much so  I put my money where my mouth is and ordered a pair. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Sep 2012, 03:48 pm
I thought I would add this info to my review......

I really enjoyed the Monitor 1, so much so  I put my money where my mouth is and ordered a pair. :thumb:

When do they arrive?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 1 Sep 2012, 03:59 pm
When do they arrive?

Probably in about a week.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Sep 2012, 04:44 pm
Probably in about a week.

That's quick!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 1 Sep 2012, 04:49 pm
That's quick!

Total turn around time will end up being a bit under 2 weeks.  The website mentions a 2 week average turn around time.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: ltr317 on 1 Sep 2012, 04:53 pm
Thanks for the review, enjoyed reading your impressions.  I heard the M1 at last year's Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and thought they were outstanding for the asking price. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: charmerci on 1 Sep 2012, 06:03 pm
Great review! I was wondering how the SAM1's sounded against other speakers.

As for going on "too long" - don't forget, we often pay money to read magazines that go on much longer than you did!  :lol: Thanks for taking time.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 1 Sep 2012, 08:49 pm
Thanks for the review, enjoyed reading your impressions.  I heard the M1 at last year's Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and thought they were outstanding for the asking price.
Great review! I was wondering how the SAM1's sounded against other speakers.

As for going on "too long" - don't forget, we often pay money to read magazines that go on much longer than you did!  :lol: Thanks for taking time.

Glad you enjoyed it.  Hopefully it will be useful for someone speaker shopping.


....and I'd gladly accept $$ for writing  reviews. :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: ltr317 on 1 Sep 2012, 09:21 pm
Glad you enjoyed it.  Hopefully it will be useful for someone speaker shopping.


....and I'd gladly accept $$ for writing  reviews. :lol:

Hey, now you're stepping into my territory.   :nono:  :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: satfrat on 1 Sep 2012, 10:16 pm
Soundfield Audio Monitor 1 Review


Hehehe.....sorry if i got a little carried away writing this review.


No worries here, infact having a thourough review is rather refreshing and it just leaves me wanting an opportunity to listen to these monitors one day. So IMHO, you've done a good job here.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Sep 2012, 11:49 pm
wanting an opportunity to listen to these monitors one day.
+1
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 2 Sep 2012, 12:00 am
+1

me too
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 2 Sep 2012, 02:21 am
Hey, now you're stepping into my territory.   :nono:  :lol:

Lol......I think your territory is safe.  No one has ever offered a dime to hear what I have to say. :wink:

No worries here, infact having a thourough review is rather refreshing and it just leaves me wanting an opportunity to listen to these monitors one day. So IMHO, you've done a good job here.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
+1
me too

Thanks.

I highly recommend an audition. :thumb:  The speaker tour is a great way to get to hear it in your own home if you don't mind the shipping expense.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: J@ck on 2 Sep 2012, 03:14 am
Audition +1
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Andre2 on 2 Sep 2012, 03:19 am
I ve listened to this speaker at Lone Star Audio Fest earlier this year.  The sound quality was up with the best of that show, plus I really like the small size and the price as well.  You really need a big room for GR Super V, for example.  I am waiting patiently to realizing some budget money so I can order a pair for my leaving room HT.  I wanted to go to RMAF, but I think I will stay home and buy these speakers instead.  :D  :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Rclark on 2 Sep 2012, 04:02 am
That's high praise from an N3 TL owner.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: tabrink on 2 Sep 2012, 04:49 am
 :D I am just really impressed with what a nice guy AJ is and his personal attention to details and prompt replies to inquiries!
Looking forward to hearing the genius!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 6 Sep 2012, 11:13 pm
AJ, I am curious about the design decision to use a bass-mid/tweeter crossing at 200 Hz rather than a mid/tweeter crossing around 500 Hz?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 8 Sep 2012, 04:24 am
AJ, I am curious about the design decision to use a bass-mid/tweeter crossing at 200 Hz rather than a mid/tweeter crossing around 500 Hz?

you do realize that this is a coax driver, and its low end goes quite low?  this way, the design can use a powered woofer almost like a subwoofer...

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 8 Sep 2012, 09:28 am
you do realize that this is a coax driver, and its low end goes quite low?  this way, the design can use a powered woofer almost like a subwoofer...
For a while now I have had an on and off project (mainly off) to DIY a small 3 way for the shelf above my desk. The original intention was a sealed 8", small mid and tweeter in a waveguide but I was having problems getting things to fit. A few days ago a chap that installs speakers showed me the KEF mid/tweeter from the R series and this would fit quite nicely. Like Genelec, KEF seem to follow conventional thinking for a 3 way and crossover around 500 Hz but AJ has opted to use the bassmid/tweeter from the Q series and crossover much lower. I am interested in his objectives and the pros and cons as he sees them.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 8 Sep 2012, 05:58 pm
AJ, I am curious about the design decision to use a bass-mid/tweeter crossing at 200 Hz rather than a mid/tweeter crossing around 500 Hz?
Hi Andy,
Many reasons, one of which is the diffraction losses of that sized baffle and the way it can be used to shape the total acoustic response (driver/filter/baffle). No need to cross the KEF driver higher due to it's inherent performance characteristics/strengths, ditto for the subwoofer.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: ricardojoa on 8 Sep 2012, 06:09 pm
Hi Aj, what do you think about raal tweeter? Would it be possible to integrate the raal in to this design working as a 4 way so the coaxial still remain but the raal will handle the higher notes.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jimdgoulding on 8 Sep 2012, 06:47 pm
Were I in the market and for my size room, I would DEFINITELY give these a whirl.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 8 Sep 2012, 07:29 pm
Many reasons, one of which is the diffraction losses of that sized baffle and the way it can be used to shape the total acoustic response (driver/filter/baffle). No need to cross the KEF driver higher due to it's inherent performance characteristics/strengths, ditto for the subwoofer.
Thanks for the reply which looks a bit like a manufacturers answer. Are you still alive on any of the DIY forums?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 8 Sep 2012, 07:34 pm
Thanks for the reply which looks a bit like a manufacturers answer. Are you still alive on any of the DIY forums?

andy, you obviously have not met aj, or read posts he's made to the forums - even tho he's technically a "manufacturer", he does this speaker thing as a hobby.  he's an enthusiast first and foremost, and he will give you only straight answers.  no gobbledygook here.  he's about the straightest shooter you will find, here or anywhere, imo.

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 8 Sep 2012, 08:33 pm
Thanks for the reply which looks a bit like a manufacturers answer. Are you still alive on any of the DIY forums?
Well, I am a manufacturer, though the answer is accurate and to the point. What do you think might be missing? Did you understand it?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 8 Sep 2012, 08:41 pm
Hi Aj, what do you think about raal tweeter?
Hi Richard,
Very nice sound, expensive, drops right into the cookie cutter.

Would it be possible to integrate the raal in to this design working as a 4 way so the coaxial still remain but the raal will handle the higher notes.
Sure. You pay, I build.  :wink:
Seems like a waste to be used as such. Have you heard either an M1 or RAAL based design to determine whether this would be a desired inclusion? A big part of why the M1 sounds the way it does...is due to the design as is. Controlled directivity in ever direction. To be placed in real rooms with real reflections...in every direction.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 8 Sep 2012, 08:51 pm
andy, you obviously have not met aj, or read posts he's made to the forums - even tho he's technically a "manufacturer", he does this speaker thing as a hobby.  he's an enthusiast first and foremost, and he will give you only straight answers.  no gobbledygook here.  he's about the straightest shooter you will find, here or anywhere, imo.
I have never met AJ but we have occasionally corresponded on other forums in the past. I suspect he will readily admit to being more restrained/responsible in his posting now he is a manufacturer and good luck to him. Whether that makes him a straighter or more bent shooter on an audiophile forum is perhaps debatable.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: satfrat on 8 Sep 2012, 08:56 pm
I have never met AJ but we have occasionally corresponded on other forums in the past. I suspect he will readily admit to being more restrained/responsible in his posting now he is a manufacturer and good luck to him. Whether that makes him a straighter or more bent shooter on an audiophile forum is perhaps debatable.


Well from your beginning 4 posts here on AC, restraint doesn't seem to be an issue with you.  :lol:


BTW, welcome to AC!  :thumb:


Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 8 Sep 2012, 09:02 pm
I have never met AJ but we have occasionally corresponded on other forums in the past. I suspect he will readily admit to being more restrained/responsible in his posting now he is a manufacturer and good luck to him. Whether that makes him a straighter or more bent shooter on an audiophile forum is perhaps debatable.

it's debatable, only if you like to argue.   :green:

i have been following aj for a long time here on a/c, and and, w/o a doubt, you won't meet a straighter shooter, mfr or otherwise.  if he shows restraint/responsibility, it is not because he's not a straight shooter, but because he may be more cognizant of not wanting to insult others when he knows they're full of it.  i have found it pretty easy to read between the lines, most of the time, tho...  :lol:

ymmv,

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 8 Sep 2012, 09:28 pm
Whether that makes him a straighter or more bent shooter on an audiophile forum is perhaps debatable.
Again Andy, if you didn't understand, or did but need further info, feel free to ask. No secret sauces or magic in any of my designs. Just knowledge of the fundamentals and application.
Or feel free to use 500hz.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 8 Sep 2012, 09:45 pm
What do you think might be missing?
More on why you made the unconventional choice of a midbass rather than a mid in a 3 way. The radiation pattern is one parameter but it is only one of a set which will of course be weighted by your objectives, constraints and other design choices.

Did you understand it?
I believe I understood what you said but I have yet to weight the significance which requires the comparison of a few simulations.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 8 Sep 2012, 09:54 pm
Again Andy, if you didn't understand, or did but need further info, feel free to ask. No secret sauces or magic in any of my designs. Just knowledge of the fundamentals and application.
That is good.

Or feel free to use 500hz.
If I opt for the R series mid/tweeter coaxial I suspect I will be forced to use something around 500 Hz because it is not a midwoofer/tweeter.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 8 Sep 2012, 10:05 pm
More on why you made the unconventional choice of a midbass rather than a mid in a 3 way.
That one was easy. KEF made it for me, by supplying a midbass driver. As such its parameters are optimized for midbass reproduction, sacrifices made to sensitivity and traded for LF capability. A large (2") VC and decent displacement capability also contributes to the filter choice. Hopefully you are advanced enough in DIY knowledge to know the full scope of crossovers, the electrical filter portion and the actual acoustic response as determined by the driver/baffle combination.

The radiation pattern is one parameter but it is only one of a set which will of course be weighted by your objectives, constraints and other design choices.
That would have been a minor consideration at those frequencies. Not unconsidered, but minor.

I believe I understood what you said but I have yet to weight the significance which requires the comparison of a few simulations.
The baffle diffraction losses (aka "Baffle step") is fairly straight forward. How you choose to address isn't always. I chose to address it in the system design, without throwing what I deemed as unnecessary components and performance limiting. I chose to use the combination of total acoustic response of each driver in that enclosure to account for the filter choice. Hence, around 200hz. Keep in mind these are not intended for console use, but free standing. In a room. Where the Schroeder frequency rarely exceeds 300hz. That too plays a role.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 9 Sep 2012, 01:03 am
it's debatable, only if you like to argue.   :green:

i have been following aj for a long time here on a/c, and and, w/o a doubt, you won't meet a straighter shooter, mfr or otherwise.  if he shows restraint/responsibility, it is not because he's not a straight shooter, but because he may be more cognizant of not wanting to insult others when he knows they're full of it.  i have found it pretty easy to read between the lines, most of the time, tho...  :lol:

ymmv,

doug s.

+1!

BTW, I've read candid posts by AJ that have ticked off a few people; some don't like to hear the truth or want an education.  :lol:

PS - My pair of SAM1s arrived today. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 9 Sep 2012, 03:50 am
Thanks for the reply which looks a bit like a manufacturers answer. Are you still alive on any of the DIY forums?

Well, I am a manufacturer...

Welcome to AC Andy.  Just as a note of explanation, AJ, being a manufacturer, is under certain restrictions to not promote or advertise his products in the public circles on AC.  In threads mentioning his products he can only answer direct questions about them.  He does a great job of this and I've been required to do zero moderation of his posts.  Being new here you may not realize right off the bat that a great deal of this site is commercially based with sponsor manufacturers paying a fee to host their own circles in which they freely promote their products.  On the public circles the restrictions to manufacturers posting about their products are much tighter than on many other audio forums, such as the DIY ones.  I'm sure AJ would be happy to be his old self and go toe to toe with you about speaker theory on a more general thread than this one.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: andy19191 on 9 Sep 2012, 09:36 am
That one was easy. KEF made it for me, by supplying a midbass driver.
Well that clears that one up: a false assumption on my part. I had assumed you had opted for the Q series midwoofer/tweeter over the R series mid/tweeter for reasons I could not see. Perhaps I have made another false assumption in assuming the R series mid/tweeter is available because the installer had them around to show me. Anyway, thanks for the input.

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 10 Sep 2012, 01:58 am
When do they arrive?

They arrived yesterday safe and sound. :thumb:

I did discover something about them that's worth noting if a buyer is going to use the grills and run the M1s full range.  The magnets on the grills aren't very strong, so if you play bass heavy material at a decent level the grills may fall off!  Mine ended up in the floor more than once. :o

I contacted a fellow AC member that builds speakers/grills and has experience with these grills.  He said adding a set of strong magnets such as these should do the trick:

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D61-N52
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D62-N52

They will cause the grill to stand away from the baffle a little, but I don't think it will be enough to adversely affect performance or cosmetics.

I'll post my results once I get the magnets and check it out.

Speaking of cosmetics, for those who are auditioning the demo pair, the new ones look MUCH better than those poor old demos (I'm sure they've been through a lot). :wink:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jimdgoulding on 10 Sep 2012, 02:57 am
What is the efficiency of the combined top two drivers?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 10 Sep 2012, 03:17 am
What is the efficiency of the combined top two drivers?  Thanks.

there on specs on the website:
http://soundfieldaudio.net/Products.html

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 10 Sep 2012, 08:43 pm
Thanks Doug...and Saturn, sorry about that, I'll try the magnet grill mod myself
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 11 Sep 2012, 01:56 am
Thanks Doug...and Saturn, sorry about that, I'll try the magnet grill mod myself

No problem AJ.  I know most probably won't even use the grills.  Even in my case, with the sub handling frequencies below about 80hz, the grills stay put.  It's only when running full range that the grills lose their grip.  Think of it as a testament to how much output those woofers are capable of. :thumb:

I ordered these magnets today;

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D61G-N52

I'll post the results when I get them.

Ideally, it would be best if the existing magnets in the grills could be removed and replaced with stronger ones.  If you figure out a way to do that without damaging the grills, let me know.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 13 Sep 2012, 10:43 pm
No problem AJ.  I know most probably won't even use the grills.  Even in my case, with the sub handling frequencies below about 80hz, the grills stay put.  It's only when running full range that the grills lose their grip.  Think of it as a testament to how much output those woofers are capable of. :thumb:

I ordered these magnets today;

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D61G-N52

I'll post the results when I get them.

Ideally, it would be best if the existing magnets in the grills could be removed and replaced with stronger ones.  If you figure out a way to do that without damaging the grills, let me know.

UPDATE:

The neo magnets arrived today and I'm happy to report they work great (thanks Ron!).  The grills didn't budge no matter what I played.  Those neo magnets may be small (3/8" wide, 1/16" thick), but they sure are strong!  They came attached to each other and boy those suckers were hard to pull apart!

Since the neo magnets hold more firmly to the grill magnets than the baffle bolts, the neo magnets stay attached to the grill when you remove it.

In terms of cosmetics, even with the grills standing slightly off the baffle, it looks like they were made that way; looks great IMO.  The neo magnets are only visible if you look at the speaker directly from the side.  Even then, with the gold plated neo magnets I chose (I thought gold would match the tone of the cherry finish better than silver) it still looks great from the side.

Personally, I'm very happy with this inexpensive and easy fix and would recommend it to anyone who likes to use the grills like I do (I know I'm in the minority around here :wink: ).
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: satfrat on 14 Sep 2012, 12:23 am
Boy, with your recent shopping deals of the neo magnets and the Shepherd cone gliders, you're hitting bullseyes. Good for you.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 14 Sep 2012, 01:42 am
Boy, with your recent shopping deals of the neo magnets and the Shepherd cone gliders, you're hitting bullseyes. Good for you.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

If only that were the case with every purchase I've made. :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 14 Sep 2012, 02:33 am
...and the Shepherd cone gliders...

 :scratch:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: satfrat on 14 Sep 2012, 02:48 am
:scratch:

Here ya go. (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109664.msg1129925#msg1129925)  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 14 Sep 2012, 12:52 pm
Thanks Robin.  Those might work for a variety of speakers, good find Saturn94.  For those who might want to use the threaded inserts on their speakers, or speaker stands since we're on the Soundfield M1 thread, by any chance did you notice the thread size on the sliders? 

Looking through that thread I clicked on the Herbie's link and among the many useful items there was sliders with decoupling pads under cups for spikes.  Hmmm, I might just unscrew my spikes and attach some sliders, but that's just me...
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 14 Sep 2012, 05:02 pm
Thanks Robin.  Those might work for a variety of speakers, good find Saturn94.  For those who might want to use the threaded inserts on their speakers, or speaker stands since we're on the Soundfield M1 thread, by any chance did you notice the thread size on the sliders? 

Looking through that thread I clicked on the Herbie's link and among the many useful items there was sliders with decoupling pads under cups for spikes.  Hmmm, I might just unscrew my spikes and attach some sliders, but that's just me...

Since the sliders I purchased use separate screws (the slider just has a hole in it), you could probably use different size screws as long as they fit through the hole in the slider.  I didn't want to remove the feet that came with my HT2-TLs so I was looking for something that didn't have any threads attached.

Speaking of the M1s and stands, the stands I purchased, VTI DF24B, came with spikes but they aren't quite long enough to penetrate the carpet and pad down to the concrete.  How do I tell what size threads I need if I want to replace them with longer spikes?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: skite30 on 27 Oct 2012, 02:46 pm
I bought a pair about six months ago. Dealing with AJ was a real pleasure, he was helpful, knowledgeable and patient with me.His after sale care has been exemplary.
I couldn't be happier with these, all the accolades are well deserved. I am using a triode electronics trv-a300-se amplifier it puts out 8watts.
this is a great combo. I listen near field about 8 feet in a room 20x40x12 and although I don't listen at real loud levels adequate volume has never been an issue. I never get past 11 o'clock using a cd player for input.
i can't imagine a more musical, satisfying combo at near this price point. I would definitely buy these again.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 28 Oct 2012, 04:52 pm
...... Dealing with AJ was a real pleasure, he was helpful, knowledgeable and patient with me.His after sale care has been exemplary.......

+1
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Oct 2012, 01:18 pm
Thanks guys.

I am using a triode electronics trv-a300-se amplifier it puts out 8watts.
this is a great combo.
That is a very nice looking little amp. I've often been asked what SET matches well and apparently these do. Where can they be found/bought stateside?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_28g02CSWw1E/SuyISUNqoZI/AAAAAAAAAKw/pP_q1pf_6No/s320/trv-a300se_01.jpg)

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: stevenkelby on 29 Oct 2012, 01:32 pm
Thanks guys.
That is a very nice looking little amp. I've often been asked what SET matches well and apparently these do. Where can they be found/bought stateside?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_28g02CSWw1E/SuyISUNqoZI/AAAAAAAAAKw/pP_q1pf_6No/s320/trv-a300se_01.jpg)

cheers,

AJ

http://twinaudiovideo.com/home/?p=79

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: TomS on 29 Oct 2012, 01:37 pm
Thanks guys.
That is a very nice looking little amp. I've often been asked what SET matches well and apparently these do. Where can they be found/bought stateside?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_28g02CSWw1E/SuyISUNqoZI/AAAAAAAAAKw/pP_q1pf_6No/s320/trv-a300se_01.jpg)

cheers,

AJ
These guys have shown at RMAF with Acoustic Zen. Always great sounding setups.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 29 Oct 2012, 02:30 pm
FWIW, I had the SAM1's for about a week as part of the tour, and posted my impressions as part of an essay here. (http://seriousaudioblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/listening-impression-with-cursory.html)

No overpriced glorified light bulbs were harmed or otherwise engaged during my audition. :)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 29 Oct 2012, 05:44 pm
Thanks guys.
That is a very nice looking little amp. I've often been asked what SET matches well and apparently these do. Where can they be found/bought stateside?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_28g02CSWw1E/SuyISUNqoZI/AAAAAAAAAKw/pP_q1pf_6No/s320/trv-a300se_01.jpg)

cheers,

AJ
i am not sure i would be looking for $3k amps for your sam-1's, aj...

ymmv,

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 29 Oct 2012, 06:05 pm
FWIW, I had the SAM1's for about a week as part of the tour, and posted my impressions as part of an essay here. (http://seriousaudioblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/listening-impression-with-cursory.html)

Thoughtful review - thanks!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Oct 2012, 06:13 pm
i am not sure i would be looking for $3k amps for your sam-1's, aj..
That's because you've never heard them. The M1's, that is... :lol:
Different strokes for different folks Doug. Me personally, I'm happy with a $400 Yaqin. YMMV

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 29 Oct 2012, 06:21 pm
That's because you've never heard them. The M1's, that is... :lol:
Different strokes for different folks Doug. Me personally, I'm happy with a $400 Yaqin. YMMV

cheers,

AJ
hi aj!

it's not cuz i didn't want to gear them, but you had some more upscale speakers at the caf this past summer.   :lol:  and they were definitely one of the better sounds i heard at that show.   :thumb:

but i am w/you - i think there's plenty of excellent reasonably priced tube gear out there.  if i were wanting more spendy stuff, based on my experience w/almarro, i would go w/that.  still somewhat moderately priced, especially when you consider what it's compared to...

best,

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Oct 2012, 06:39 pm
hi aj!

it's not cuz i didn't want to gear them, but you had some more upscale speakers at the caf this past summer.   :lol:  and they were definitely one of the better sounds i heard at that show.   :thumb:

but i am w/you - i think there's plenty of excellent reasonably priced tube gear out there.  if i were wanting more spendy stuff, based on my experience w/almarro, i would go w/that.  still somewhat moderately priced, especially when you consider what it's compared to...

best,

doug s.

Well, of course "moderately priced" is a sliding scale issue...and quite subjective :wink:. Guess my point was more "hey, glad you found a match", rather than "what a bargain" regarding the Triodes. The impedance of the SAMs are fairly benign, but there is no question about the "EQ" effect when a high output impedance/low/no-NFB amp is concerned.
I once made the mistake of hooking those aforementioned CAF speakers (with a very complex reactance at the time) to some 0.75 watt ( :o) SETs....for about 20 seconds. Real horrow show. :lol:
Actually DS21 was there. Our ears are probably still not recovered.
More power to Skite30 (no pun intended) if he's found that match made in audio heaven.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 29 Oct 2012, 08:25 pm
**
I once made the mistake of hooking those aforementioned CAF speakers (with a very complex reactance at the time) to some 0.75 watt ( :o) SETs....for about 20 seconds. Real horrow show. :lol:**

Yep. Utterly amazing how much better they sounded on the HK A/V receiver than on the light-bulbs.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 29 Oct 2012, 08:37 pm
ya, i think for truly "flea power" amps, you need really efficient speakers = like >105db/1w/wm...

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 29 Oct 2012, 09:08 pm
ya, i think for truly "flea power" amps, you need really efficient speakers = like >105db/1w/wm...

doug s.

In this case, it wasn't the quantity of power that was the problem, but rather the "signal processing" caused by the lightbulbs' high output impedance. That is to say, one wasn't hearing clipping, one was simply hearing an ear-bleeding frequency imbalance.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: skite30 on 29 Oct 2012, 10:06 pm
I originally heard these amps at axpona in the acoustic zen room. Some of the best sound I heard both in jax and atlanta. This was a dealer demo with about 15 hours on it. I got it got it for 1400 so it matches up well with m1's. i have a 4 watt amp that didnt sound good with these at all. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 30 Oct 2012, 12:16 am
In this case, it wasn't the quantity of power that was the problem, but rather the "signal processing" caused by the lightbulbs' high output impedance. That is to say, one wasn't hearing clipping, one was simply hearing an ear-bleeding frequency imbalance.

yes, i agree that impedance matching is also important.  i once had a pair of 14 ohm 97db-efficient speakers; a well respected ~5wpc 4 ohm amp sounded like crap w/them, when other 4-5wpc amps i had sounded superb w/them, thru 8 or 16 ohm taps that they had...

still, even w/correct impedance, 3/4 of a watt isn't much for anything except soft listening levels with 86.5db speakers, even when only powering the midrange/treble above 200hz.

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 30 Oct 2012, 01:18 am
yes, i agree that impedance matching is also important.  i once had a pair of 14 ohm 97db-efficient speakers; a well respected ~5wpc 4 ohm amp sounded like crap w/them, when other 4-5wpc amps i had sounded superb w/them, thru 8 or 16 ohm taps that they had...

still, even w/correct impedance, 3/4 of a watt isn't much for anything except soft listening levels with 86.5db speakers, even when only powering the midrange/treble above 200hz.

doug s.

The speaker AJ and I are talking about was probably 10dB more sensitive than that (OEM'ed BMS concentric driver). And the woofer was self-powered.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 30 Oct 2012, 03:16 am
The speaker AJ and I are talking about was probably 10dB more sensitive than that (OEM'ed BMS concentric driver). And the woofer was self-powered.
oops - my bad.  if they were like the ones aj had at the caf this past summer, then yes - a good deal more efficient.  but, as i said, even 5w isn't enough, per my experience, w/a severe impedance mismatch.

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 30 Oct 2012, 01:17 pm
oops - my bad.  if they were like the ones aj had at the caf this past summer, then yes - a good deal more efficient.  but, as i said, even 5w isn't enough, per my experience, w/a severe impedance mismatch.

doug s.

Power is irrelevant here. Amps with 0.001W or 50kW are both going to be be low-fidelity devices if the amps aren't properly designed (very low output impedance) or the speakers aren't specially designed to cover for the basic design flaws of obsolete amps (i.e. extra passive junk in the crossover circuit to flatten the speakers' impedance as much as possible).
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 30 Oct 2012, 05:32 pm
Power is irrelevant here. Amps with 0.001W or 50kW are both going to be be low-fidelity devices if the amps aren't properly designed (very low output impedance) or the speakers aren't specially designed to cover for the basic design flaws of obsolete amps (i.e. extra passive junk in the crossover circuit to flatten the speakers' impedance as much as possible).

yes - i am agreeing w/you!   :wink:

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 22 Jan 2013, 06:14 pm
Hey, wow, just logged back into AC after a very long hiatus, and I see that this thread seems to have continued up until relatively recently. I'm sitting in front of my still beloved SAM1s, listening to some Me'shell N'degeocello with very deep bass, and loving it! These things cured me of speaker upgrade-itis the day I got them, and I haven't gotten sick since.  :D
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 22 Jan 2013, 06:38 pm
Hey, wow, just logged back into AC after a very long hiatus, and I see that this thread seems to have continued up until relatively recently. I'm sitting in front of my still beloved SAM1s, listening to some Me'shell N'degeocello with very deep bass, and loving it! These things cured me of speaker upgrade-itis the day I got them, and I haven't gotten sick since.  :D

Yeah, mine still make me smile.

Since you've been absent for awhile, you may not have heard that AJ discontinued the SAM1 and is working on a new model.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 22 Jan 2013, 07:26 pm
Yeah, mine still make me smile.

Since you've been absent for awhile, you may not have heard that AJ discontinued the SAM1 and is working on a new model.

tell us more!  (http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/ear.gif)

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 22 Jan 2013, 07:33 pm
tell us more!  (http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/ear.gif)

doug s.

Other than the pictures AJ has posted on his website, I really don't know anything about the new models. :dunno:

http://soundfieldaudio.net/Coming_Soon.html

Knowing AJ, I expect they will offer alot for the buck.  I'm hoping he will show them at CAF this year.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 22 Jan 2013, 08:07 pm
I also would love to see how things are evolving. My SAM-1s continue to please as well. I have them in a 2.1 setup in our new home and they do double duty with my big screen. They are perfect for this, just great all around speakers for any source material. My only problem is that in a bigger space I lost my dac to the second system (audio only), so I'm left lusting for a new dac or receiver. So as problems go it's a pretty good one  :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 23 Jan 2013, 04:50 am
Other than the pictures AJ has posted on his website, I really don't know anything about the new models. :dunno:

http://soundfieldaudio.net/Coming_Soon.html

Knowing AJ, I expect they will offer alot for the buck.  I'm hoping he will show them at CAF this year.

I've heard the 1812's, very impressive.  A lovely blend of sweetness and power.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: bigbang on 23 Jan 2013, 02:58 pm
I know a secret!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 23 Jan 2013, 03:03 pm
Spill, or the Salks get it!  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: doug s. on 23 Jan 2013, 03:08 pm
I've heard the 1812's, very impressive.  A lovely blend of sweetness and power.
agreed - one of the better sounds at last year's caf, imo.  not cheap, tho, like the sam-1's.  which is why it would  be interesting to hear about the sam-1's replacements...

c'mon, bigbang, let's hear your big bang!   :wink:

doug s.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 23 Jan 2013, 05:42 pm
Spill, or the Salks get it!  :icon_twisted:

Yes, let's hear it!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: bigbang on 29 Jan 2013, 02:37 am
I told AJ to check this thread out and post!!! :)

I can say he is working on some new things.

No Salks here (anymore). :o
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 29 Jan 2013, 03:17 am
I told AJ to check this thread out and post!!! :)

I can say he is working on some new things.

No Salks here (anymore). :o

We're waiting........ :drool:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 29 Jan 2013, 04:34 am
I'm pretty sure AJ knows about the thread.   :roll:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Jan 2013, 01:55 pm
I'm pretty sure AJ knows about the thread.   :roll:
...and the rules about self promotion  :lol:
New product releases will be in the Industry Ads section. Thanks for the compliments gents.

cheers
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 29 Jan 2013, 03:20 pm
AJ, how ya doin'! Sad to hear the SAM1s have been retired, there's a lot of people out there who will never get to experience the joy of these things. But I guess that makes mine collector's items, I imagine they're the only pair ever made with the storm trooper white baffles?  :lol:. Seriously, though, I'll be amazed if you come up with something better that doesn't cost 3K and weigh 80 lbs. Whatever you do, just make sure you make a version in white, otherwise my girl doesn't let them in the house.

I guess the custom sub-stands for the SAM1s are no longer in the works, then?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Jan 2013, 05:01 pm
AJ, how ya doin'! Sad to hear the SAM1s have been retired, there's a lot of people out there who will never get to experience the joy of these things. But I guess that makes mine collector's items, I imagine they're the only pair ever made with the storm trooper white baffles?  :lol:. Seriously, though, I'll be amazed if you come up with something better that doesn't cost 3K and weigh 80 lbs. Whatever you do, just make sure you make a version in white, otherwise my girl doesn't let them in the house.

I guess the custom sub-stands for the SAM1s are no longer in the works, then?

Doing well Neeko, thanks. Yep, like all good things, must come to an end some time. :wink:
Yes, yours was (thankfully) the only white baffle. Nothing 80lbs/$3k in the works here, white or otherwise.
Stands are near done. Will be in Chicago.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 11 Apr 2013, 05:21 pm
The first Monitor 2 pair will be joining my SAM 1's. Espresso stained oak baffle on piano black cabs. I was going to go OB, but when I found out about the rear firing ambiance tweet, I decided to go back to the source. Also at Axpona they rocked. The dude running a very high end room who was there taking a break could not believe what they were doing, as I was leaving I heard the same test track (Eagles, Hotel California) from said high end room and took a quick sec to listen. The SAM-2's acquitted themselves quite admirably.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 11 Apr 2013, 05:38 pm
The first Monitor 2 pair will be joining my SAM 1's. Espresso stained oak baffle on piano black cabs. I was going to go OB, but when I found out about the rear firing ambiance tweet, I decided to go back to the source. Also at Axpona they rocked. The dude running a very high end room who was there taking a break could not believe what they were doing, as I was leaving I heard the same test track (Eagles, Hotel California) from said high end room and took a quick sec to listen. The SAM-2's acquitted themselves quite admirably.

Cool! Will they be used in a secondary 2 channel system?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 11 Apr 2013, 06:09 pm
The first Monitor 2 pair will be joining my SAM 1's. Espresso stained oak baffle on piano black cabs. I was going to go OB, but when I found out about the rear firing ambiance tweet, I decided to go back to the source. Also at Axpona they rocked. The dude running a very high end room who was there taking a break could not believe what they were doing, as I was leaving I heard the same test track (Eagles, Hotel California) from said high end room and took a quick sec to listen. The SAM-2's acquitted themselves quite admirably.

Very nice.  :thumb:

I'm looking forward to hearing the M2 at CAF.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 11 Apr 2013, 07:45 pm
Cool! Will they be used in a secondary 2 channel system?
Yup I have two, two channel systems. I tried multichannel, but I just like 2 channel purity both for AV and dedicated music. I should actually should have said the first production pair made and paid for. These will most likely live in the family room, powered by a Class D SDS-254, fed by a mac mini server, with an HK-254 doing AV duty. I have an old 50" DLP tv which I think is going nowhere. The M1's go upstairs, my layout is a duplex down with the family room down, the adjustable bass will allow me to tune for neighbors upstairs, downstairs I can crank  :icon_twisted:. Anyhow I will try both locations. The M2s will coordinate well with my wood flooring upstairs though.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 11 Apr 2013, 08:38 pm
Yup I have two, two channel systems. I tried multichannel, but I just like 2 channel purity both for AV and dedicated music. I should actually should have said the first production pair made and paid for. These will most likely live in the family room, powered by a Class D SDS-254, fed by a mac mini server, with an HK-254 doing AV duty. I have an old 50" DLP tv which I think is going nowhere. The M1's go upstairs, my layout is a duplex down with the family room down, the adjustable bass will allow me to tune for neighbors upstairs, downstairs I can crank  :icon_twisted:. Anyhow I will try both locations. The M2s will coordinate well with my wood flooring upstairs though.

Little confused as to what's going where, but no worries, I'm sure it's a dope setup.

A little OT, but I just switched over to a new Mac Mini server recently, and I'm playing around with different playback software. Have you tried the JRiver Mac OS X alpha demo they've got available now? Pretty interesting...
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 11 Apr 2013, 09:06 pm
Sorry, at work, so my blips are a bit stream of consciousness.

M2 2.1 downstairs family/main rig doing double audio and AV duty
M1 Upstairs music only
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 20 Apr 2013, 12:30 pm
They're Alive :icon_twisted:

Wow SAM-2, quite the ribbon/planar (which one?) big bro to SAM-1. My wife noticed an immediate difference, and that is a very, very rare occurrence. These guys have just a couple tracks under their belt, but I am favorably impressed. Initially it feels like a more effortless and airy presentation than SAM-1. But really it like saying which twin a father would prefer. Anyhow the first consumer pair of these speakers confirmed what I heard at Axpona. We had the oak baffles stained to match our first floor wood flooring which is as dark as oak gets. Nice for people who like that modern look. Very subtle, and a bit hard to photograph, but I think super cool. Images below.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79204)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79205)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 23 Apr 2013, 02:54 pm
^^^ Nice! :thumb:

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 24 Apr 2013, 12:10 am
Paul, those look really nice in that dark stain oak. For a second, the first photo looked like there was a carbon fiber thing going on, ha.

Interesting stands, what are those?

Would love to hear those puppies.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: studiotech on 24 Apr 2013, 01:00 am
Paul, those look really nice in that dark stain oak. For a second, the first photo looked like there was a carbon fiber thing going on, ha.

Interesting stands, what are those?

Would love to hear those puppies.

I thought the exact same thing based on the first picture!

I think the stands are made from T-slot aluminum like 80/20 or Faztek sell.

I've made an equipment stand and an end table out of the stuff.  Pretty fun to work with.

Greg
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Donald on 24 Apr 2013, 01:13 am
Very nice. It appears AJ has hit another one out of the ball park. :thumb: Can't wait to hear those also. The SAM #1 sounded awesome.

I vote for another roadshow. Any chance of that happening AJ?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 24 Apr 2013, 11:06 am
Clarity, speed, and dynamics. Really impressive dynamics for a large monitor, less bass than SAM-1 but maybe more nuanced (have not made up my mind there). Yes, the stands are made from aluminum extrusions and 80/20 t slot type connectors, got the parts and cut sections from an AC member. However I may have something in the works with AJ on a custom solution which I am pumped about. To be honest I am much more impressed by these than I thought I would be. Always nice!! Had a dream last night I was demoing speakers. First thing I did this am was turn on the rig  :thumb: Hobby or addiction? All I know is that the first few weeks with new speakers are always so fun.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 24 Apr 2013, 01:44 pm
I vote for another roadshow. Any chance of that happening AJ?
Hi Donald. I honestly hadn't given this much thought. If there was sufficient interest, I might. Perhaps in a Honey I Shrunk the Kids version, as these a biggish/heavy for a tour, given the pounding FedEx et al would give them.
Certainly nothing before LSAF, which has me buried. Maybe before CapFest (or just after), again, if there were enough interest.
Glad you are enjoying them Paul.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Donald on 24 Apr 2013, 01:51 pm
AJ,

I remember how heavy the "Little" SAM 1's were. The UPS or Fed Ex guy wouldn't carry them to our front door on the second story. Decided to leave them at the garage. :scratch: So I know where you are coming from.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 24 Apr 2013, 02:01 pm
Yes, there was a trend towards neo drivers for a while, then came the neo fiasco and corresponding prices skyrocketing...which seems to be subsided...a bit. Neo woofers really help!!
A reduced size version wouldn't be as heavy as the SAM1s, but your FedEx guy might still not want to hoist them up stairs. I might assemble one just to see how heavy it would be...but not for right now.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 24 Apr 2013, 02:37 pm
Yes, there was a trend towards neo drivers for a while, then came the neo fiasco and corresponding prices skyrocketing...which seems to be subsided...a bit. Neo woofers really help!!

I don't get it. Neo woofers?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 25 Apr 2013, 12:29 am
I don't get it. Neo woofers?

Woofer magnets made out of an alloy of neodymium, boron, and iron. As opposed to the ferroceramic magnets that have been standard since the 1970s. Neo magnets are much more powerful for their weight, so they greatly reduce the weight of speakers using them.

For a visual comparison, here are two B&C 8" woofers.

Neo:
(http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/27/17/16/20/232/file)

Ferrite:
(http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/27/17/29/59/519/8FG51rear.jpg)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 25 Apr 2013, 04:22 am
Woofer magnets made out of an alloy of neodymium, boron, and iron. As opposed to the ferroceramic magnets that have been standard since the 1970s. Neo magnets are much more powerful for their weight, so they greatly reduce the weight of speakers using them.

For a visual comparison, here are two B&C 8" woofers.

Neo:
(http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/27/17/16/20/232/file)

Ferrite:
(http://bcspeakers.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/02/27/17/29/59/519/8FG51rear.jpg)

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 25 Apr 2013, 06:12 pm
Yep, the Chinese cornered the market for neo magnets and jacked up the prices.  Driver prices shot up but we are seeing some relief.  DS-21's picture is an excellent representation of the size difference between Neo and ceramic ferrite magnets. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 25 Apr 2013, 08:08 pm
So, the M2 woofers use these, I take it?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 25 Apr 2013, 09:33 pm
So, the M2 woofers use these, I take it?
No. Nor the M1. Hence my concerns about tour. More weight = more shipping drama chances. The M1 tour pair took a pounding. These aren't typical 2 way 5-6" monitors either, by a long stretch.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 25 Apr 2013, 09:46 pm
No. Nor the M1. Hence my concerns about tour. More weight = more shipping drama chances. The M1 tour pair took a pounding. These aren't typical 2 way 5-6" monitors either, by a long stretch.

Gotcha.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 25 Apr 2013, 10:23 pm
No. Nor the M1. Hence my concerns about tour. More weight = more shipping drama chances. The M1 tour pair took a pounding. These aren't typical 2 way 5-6" monitors either, by a long stretch.

What you need is a Mid Atlantic rep willing to offer auditions to those interested.  It would be a tough job, but I'd be willing to volunteer.  You have my address to send a complimentary demo pair....

 :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 25 Apr 2013, 10:29 pm
Then there is the venerable Alnico Speaker Magnet Type, but cost is the issue:

(http://soundup.ru/images/stories/archive/Classic/speakers/funkwerk-klangfilm-l2152p/Funkwerk%20Klangfilm%20L2152P%20AlNiCo%20speakers%205.JPG)

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: bigbang on 26 Apr 2013, 12:06 am
What you need is a Mid Atlantic rep willing to offer auditions to those interested.  It would be a tough job, but I'd be willing to volunteer.  You have my address to send a complimentary demo pair....

 :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:

lol... I could be persuaded to represent the northern midwest with a pair too. But not until the amp for the rear driver is included in the cabinet though - might as well dream big if I'm gonna dream at all, right?!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 26 Apr 2013, 03:10 am
Then there is the venerable Alnico Speaker Magnet Type, but cost is the issue:

(http://soundup.ru/images/stories/archive/Classic/speakers/funkwerk-klangfilm-l2152p/Funkwerk%20Klangfilm%20L2152P%20AlNiCo%20speakers%205.JPG)

Jim

Well, that and the fact that Alnico is unsuitable for high quality speakers because it's so easy to demagnetize. Every "vintage" speaker that I've heard (JBL, Altec, Tannoy Gold) has had the wooly bass that comes from a weak motor. Since these did not start off weak-motored, one can safely infer the cause was Alnico demagnetization.

Here's a fun story that David Smith (designer of the outstanding Snell XA line, who also worked for JBL, KEF, McIntosh, and PSB) told Lansing Heritage about those obsolete magnets.

"The potential demagnetization of Alnico was also noticed at the time. I distinctly recall Greg Timbers having fun with modifying the parameters of Alnico woofers at will during development: "I think the Q is a little low on this one. Maybe a 2 dB drop in sensitivity would be about right. Lets give it full output for a second from the Crown DC600....Brrrapp. Curve it again and, yes, that's about right." -http://www.audioheritage.org/html/perspectives/smith.htm
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 26 Apr 2013, 04:28 am
Well, that and the fact that Alnico is unsuitable for high quality speakers because it's so easy to demagnetize. Every "vintage" speaker that I've heard (JBL, Altec, Tannoy Gold) has had the wooly bass that comes from a weak motor. Since these did not start off weak-motored, one can safely infer the cause was Alnico demagnetization.

Here's a fun story that David Smith (designer of the outstanding Snell XA line, who also worked for JBL, KEF, McIntosh, and PSB) told Lansing Heritage about those obsolete magnets.

"The potential demagnetization of Alnico was also noticed at the time. I distinctly recall Greg Timbers having fun with modifying the parameters of Alnico woofers at will during development: "I think the Q is a little low on this one. Maybe a 2 dB drop in sensitivity would be about right. Lets give it full output for a second from the Crown DC600....Brrrapp. Curve it again and, yes, that's about right." -http://www.audioheritage.org/html/perspectives/smith.htm

All magnets can go out of alignment or demagnetize, it is real cheap to have Alnico Magnets re-magnetized:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?279-Alnico-Demagnetize

I have used Orange County Speaker for several recons on Alnico speakers and couldn't be happier.   If I ever get a chance to get a pair of Tannoy's, I will jump on it if the price is in my reach....

But we are bird walking, back to the SAM1's

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 26 Apr 2013, 10:00 pm
All magnets can go out of alignment or demagnetize, it is real cheap to have Alnico Magnets re-magnetized:

"Go out out of alignment" is very different from "demagnetize." Going out of alignment is caused by some sort of external shock, such as being dropped hard. (Or, I suppose, the weight of the magnet acting on the frame, if the frame is a thin cast variety; I've never personally seen that problem, though. Demagnetization, in the case of Alnico magnets, happens with ordinary use, as the thread to which you linked also states. That flaw, IMO, makes Alnico unsuitable for high-fidelity loudspeakers when we have two much more stable magnet technologies in ferrite and neo. Fortunately, the SAM1 didn't use drive units with Alnico magnets, so it's not an issue for those fine speakers. I presume the SAM2 doesn't use drive-units with Alnico magnets, either.

Alnico is unique among the major magnet technologies used in loudspeakers in the ease with which it demagnetizes.

I have used Orange County Speaker for several recons on Alnico speakers and couldn't be happier.   If I ever get a chance to get a pair of Tannoy's, I will jump on it if the price is in my reach....

The Mark Dodd* designed Dual Concentrics (mid-1990s D-series and Saturns for "home;" NFM, Studio and System series  for "pro") are vastly superior to the old Alnico-magneted ones. A cutaway of a Dodd-designed Dual Concentric is my avatar.

So if you see, say, a System 10 DMT II, run to go hear it. An old Arden or Berkeley or whatever...sure, it's better than most current speakers because at least the midrange polars are not so bad (but not something well-designed using modern parts, like the SAM1) but it's more a curiosity than anything else.

But we are bird walking, back to the SAM1's

Mr. Dodd, who designed the "Tulip" phase plug for Tannoy that was such a massive improvement over their old "Pepperpot" design, was later poached from Tannoy by KEF/Celestion, where he designed "Tangerine" phase plug used to such great effect in the concentric mid/tweeter used on, inter alia, the SAM1. IMO, Tannoy has not yet recovered from the loss of Mr. Dodd to KEF.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: nickd on 26 Apr 2013, 11:04 pm
Not an expert on magnetics by any stretch, but Tannoy is using Alinco on their top of the line home concentric drivers and the sound is quite amazing (it should be for almost 50K). Who knows they might need a recharge in 20 years, but until then :guitar:

I'm not sure they went with the "old school" alloy just for marketing. There might be something to the magnetic field / voice coil interaction that affects sound more than we currently understand. A stronger magnetic field is not necessarily more musical. There may be a sweet spot  in the field that the Alinco offers?

I remember testing 7" ScanSpeak drivers with a friend a few years back. Identical drivers: cone, voice coil, surround, basket (but one with a smaller magnet) sounded way different. The driver with the smaller magnet sounded WAY more musical.

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 26 Apr 2013, 11:26 pm
DS-21:

I respectfully disagree with your thesis on Alnico Magnets and offer the following:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CHMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rare-earth-magnets.com%2FPermanent-Magnet-Selection-and-Design-Handbook.pdf&ei=rQx7UanHFKq6igLQrICwCQ&usg=AFQjCNECkf5kLUayWpTdAPaZGEZgtCF9NA&sig2=JbziLwOQf56EZRCMWq07fA&bvm=bv.45645796,d.cGE (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CHMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rare-earth-magnets.com%2FPermanent-Magnet-Selection-and-Design-Handbook.pdf&ei=rQx7UanHFKq6igLQrICwCQ&usg=AFQjCNECkf5kLUayWpTdAPaZGEZgtCF9NA&sig2=JbziLwOQf56EZRCMWq07fA&bvm=bv.45645796,d.cGE)


As noted, shock is the reason for early demagnetization...

However, I must admit that I did like my KEF 104/2's.

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 27 Apr 2013, 12:40 am
I'm not sure they went with the "old school" alloy just for marketing.
I am.

There might be something to the magnetic field / voice coil interaction that affects sound more than we currently understand.
Nope. However, there is more to (sound) perception than soundwaves...and that's something audiophiles will never understand.

I remember testing 7" ScanSpeak drivers with a friend a few years back. Identical drivers: cone, voice coil, surround, basket (but one with a smaller magnet) sounded way different.
Different (smaller) motor of same material would also measure and perform differently. Not surprising you would hear marked differences, as they would also require different alignments.

Now, I only mentioned neo because of weight. Nothing to do with "sound". Although a speaker smashed by FedEx would indeed sound markedly different from an intact one  :wink:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: *Scotty* on 27 Apr 2013, 12:58 am
Referring to the link posted to Permanent Magnet Selection and Design, page 11 section IX " Modern high coercive force magnetic materials do not significantly degrade over time...... Most magnetic material will encounter degradation from corrosion,heat,or mechanical impact long before their magnetic properties would degrade because of time....."
 As most of our loudspeakers used in a home environment are safe from these hazards we will probably suffer degradation to our listening experience from the effects of time on our hearing before the magnets used in our speakers give out.
Scotty
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 27 Apr 2013, 01:10 am
Referring to the link posted to Permanent Magnet Selection and Design, page 11 section IX " Modern high coercive force magnetic materials do not significantly degrade over time...... Most magnetic material will encounter degradation from corrosion,heat,or mechanical impact long before their magnetic properties would degrade because of time....."
 As most of our loudspeakers used in a home environment are safe from these hazards we will probably suffer degradation to our listening experience from the effects of time on our hearing before the magnets used in our speakers give out.
Scotty

+1

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 27 Apr 2013, 01:11 am
Thread officially derailed.... :(

Back on track....hey AJ,  where's those demos....lol. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 27 Apr 2013, 01:40 am
"Go out out of alignment" is very different from "demagnetize." Going out of alignment is caused by some sort of external shock, such as being dropped hard. (Or, I suppose, the weight of the magnet acting on the frame, if the frame is a thin cast variety; I've never personally seen that problem, though. Demagnetization, in the case of Alnico magnets, happens with ordinary use, as the thread to which you linked also states. That flaw, IMO, makes Alnico unsuitable for high-fidelity loudspeakers when we have two much more stable magnet technologies in ferrite and neo. Fortunately, the SAM1 didn't use drive units with Alnico magnets, so it's not an issue for those fine speakers. I presume the SAM2 doesn't use drive-units with Alnico magnets, either.

Alnico is unique among the major magnet technologies used in loudspeakers in the ease with which it demagnetizes.

The Mark Dodd* designed Dual Concentrics (mid-1990s D-series and Saturns for "home;" NFM, Studio and System series  for "pro") are vastly superior to the old Alnico-magneted ones. A cutaway of a Dodd-designed Dual Concentric is my avatar.

So if you see, say, a System 10 DMT II, run to go hear it. An old Arden or Berkeley or whatever...sure, it's better than most current speakers because at least the midrange polars are not so bad (but not something well-designed using modern parts, like the SAM1) but it's more a curiosity than anything else.

Mr. Dodd, who designed the "Tulip" phase plug for Tannoy that was such a massive improvement over their old "Pepperpot" design, was later poached from Tannoy by KEF/Celestion, where he designed "Tangerine" phase plug used to such great effect in the concentric mid/tweeter used on, inter alia, the SAM1. IMO, Tannoy has not yet recovered from the loss of Mr. Dodd to KEF.

D'S,
Great post.  In the old days when companies did not have a choice, alnico was a necessary evil.  Because of the reasons you stated, there are better magnet materials for modern high end speaker magnets.  Your fact based, well thought out responses are a breath of fresh air around here.

Alnico is still a good choice or guitar amplifier speakers because it has a very distinctive sound.  It would not be my choice for a high end home speaker.   

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 27 Apr 2013, 12:22 pm
I presume the SAM2 doesn't use drive-units with Alnico magnets, either.

So, the M2 woofers use these, I take it?

No. Nor the M1. Hence my concerns about tour. More weight = more shipping drama chances. The M1 tour pair took a pounding. These aren't typical 2 way 5-6" monitors either, by a long stretch.

Also, DS, thanks for the informative post!
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 27 Apr 2013, 09:12 pm
Referring to the link posted to Permanent Magnet Selection and Design, page 11 section IX " Modern high coercive force magnetic materials do not significantly degrade over time...... Most magnetic material will encounter degradation from corrosion,heat,or mechanical impact long before their magnetic properties would degrade because of time....."

That kind of stability is out of scope of the discussion. The problem is not that Alnico sits there and degrades. Alnico's flaw that makes the stuff unsuitable for high-fidelity loudspeakers is that flowing current through a voicecoil it demagnetizes an Alnico structure around it.

And yes, Tannoy uses Alnico (along with that Pepperpot phase plug, which does not perform as well as their more modern Tulip phase plug) in their most expensive speakers, because their most expensive speakers are overwhelmingly targeted to (mostly Far Eastern) retro fetishists.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 27 Apr 2013, 09:27 pm
That kind of stability is out of scope of the discussion. The problem is not that Alnico sits there and degrades. Alnico's flaw that makes the stuff unsuitable for high-fidelity loudspeakers is that flowing current through a voicecoil it demagnetizes an Alnico structure around it.

And yes, Tannoy uses Alnico (along with that Pepperpot phase plug, which does not perform as well as their more modern Tulip phase plug) in their most expensive speakers, because their most expensive speakers are overwhelmingly targeted to (mostly Far Eastern) retro fetishists.

I guess you know what the half life of an Alnico magnet is?

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: DS-21 on 27 Apr 2013, 09:54 pm
I guess you know what the half life of an Alnico magnet is?

No, I don't. I and many others know something higher-level, though. We know that the "half life of an Alnico magnet" is irrelevant to its suitability as a permanent magnet in a loudspeaker. So whatever its half-life is, an intelligent person has no reason to care unless s/he is heavily invested in Alnico futures or something like that.

What does actually matter here is the fact that Alnico degrades in the presence of an electromagnetic field. Such as that caused when one puts power to a voice-coil. For loudspeakers, it's obviously better to use a magnet that doesn't degrade like that.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 27 Apr 2013, 10:11 pm
No, I don't. I and many others know something higher-level, though. We know that the "half life of an Alnico magnet" is irrelevant to its suitability as a permanent magnet in a loudspeaker. So whatever its half-life is, an intelligent person has no reason to care unless s/he is heavily invested in Alnico futures or something like that.

What does actually matter here is the fact that Alnico degrades in the presence of an electromagnetic field. Such as that caused when one puts power to a voice-coil. For loudspeakers, it's obviously better to use a magnet that doesn't degrade like that.

Rather interesting hypothesis.  No I have no interest in Alnico Futures, rather that I merely posted the 3rd common type of speaker (magnet) and never espoused it as being superior or otherwise ( I did mention that there is a cost factor).  Funny how things escalate...that is why I apologized (inferred) by the Bird Walking Comment :duh:

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: *Scotty* on 27 Apr 2013, 10:17 pm
Unless the speaker's magnetic motor structure that the alinco magnet is installed in can be dis-assembled and the alinco slug removed to allow the periodic re-magnetization, sooner or later you will have an expensive doorstop instead of a functioning loudspeaker. I thought that some sound reinforcement loudspeakers that utilized alinco magnets were made to be dis-assembled to facilitate the re-magnetization process on an as needed basis.
Except for the fact that there is a demand for alinco equipped loudspeakers, the material itself is functionally obsolete and has been superseded by better performing magnetic materials.
Scotty
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jackman on 27 Apr 2013, 11:39 pm
No, I don't. I and many others know something higher-level, though. We know that the "half life of an Alnico magnet" is irrelevant to its suitability as a permanent magnet in a loudspeaker. So whatever its half-life is, an intelligent person has no reason to care unless s/he is heavily invested in Alnico futures or something like that.

What does actually matter here is the fact that Alnico degrades in the presence of an electromagnetic field. Such as that caused when one puts power to a voice-coil. For loudspeakers, it's obviously better to use a magnet that doesn't degrade like that.

Ouch!  Another great post.  You contine to do a great service to AC by providing logical explanations to the wild conjecture, witchcraft and nonsense continuously spewed by some of the more prolific posters.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Donald on 27 Apr 2013, 11:46 pm
Thread officially derailed.... :(

Back on track....hey AJ,  where's those demos....lol. :thumb:


Agree. Maybe all of this magnet talk should be started in another thread. Back to the demo's. :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 28 Apr 2013, 12:56 am
Erm, I have no idea what the netiquette is regarding threads and how on topic they're 'supposed' to stay, but as the OP, I'd just say that I personally would rather learn about nifty shit like different magnets and what makes one better than another, then limit ourselves too closely to talking SAMs and only SAMs. I mean, they DO use magnets, right?  :D

As has been pointed out by jackman, the ratio of actual information and substantiated opinion to hearsay and mystical Shakti Stone voodoo is a bit low in general in HiFi Land, so I'm grateful for all the science I can get.

OTOH, if OT sidetracks are against the rules of the circle or something, no worries....

I love my SAM 1s. There, we're back on topic.  :green:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 28 Apr 2013, 01:21 am
Thanks for getting things back on track Neeko.  Regarding netiquette for OT I think you're pretty much on target.  After 18 pages of SAM-1 if the members stray a little OT, but stay in the general ballpark of the OP,  I'm not inclined to be heavy handed.  I mean, we are here to enjoy ourselves, right?  If someone starts spouting about the Kennedy's or something, maybe I'll step in, but magnets in speakers in the speaker circle, not so much.  That being said, I think we've beat that poor alinco horse as much as the old girl can take, especially since there's nary a trace of the stuff in SAM speakers.   
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 28 Apr 2013, 01:22 am
Neekomax:

Since you are interested, I post the following link:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=52321.0

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 28 Apr 2013, 01:25 am
Neekomax:

Since you are interested, I post the following link:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=52321.0

Jim

Thanks dude, will read.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 28 Apr 2013, 01:27 am
It is from the AC and is a short but accurate and informative read.  You're welcome.

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 28 Apr 2013, 04:42 am
What you need is a Mid Atlantic rep willing to offer auditions to those interested.  It would be a tough job, but I'd be willing to volunteer.  You have my address to send a complimentary demo pair....

 :thumb:  :thumb:  :thumb:


This does not relate to your obviously humorous post.  We had at least a few persons request free complementary guitar seasoning devices.  One guy in particular called at least three times, and finally made threats simply because we wouldn't give him free stuff.  One time he ordered his secretary to call us.  Another guy more recently presented himself as some type of consultant to multi billion dollar companies and promised all kinds of free consulting advice if we'd just send him free stuff.

Oh, AJ, add me to your list of requests for free demo pair...Design looks highly original and very nice!    :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 28 Apr 2013, 01:34 pm
Getting back on track, Roscoeiii was over last night for a spell, and we had a good time putting the SAM-2 through its paces. I think it was unanimous, the SAM-2 kicks serious but, and really takes things to a whole other level. Incredible. Very cool to have someone over who was so knowledgeable, homeboy has a deep repertoire of cool test tracks. The SAM-2 imaging is quite good, with the ability for those images to hang in the air holographically. Things like wind chimes are scary real. The SAM-1 is not like that, but has other great attributes of course. Who is going to  get the second pair :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 28 Apr 2013, 03:11 pm
Getting back on track, Roscoeiii was over last night for a spell, and we had a good time putting the SAM-2 through its paces. I think it was unanimous, the SAM-2 kicks serious but, and really takes things to a whole other level. Incredible. Very cool to have someone over who was so knowledgeable, homeboy has a deep repertoire of cool test tracks. The SAM-2 imaging is quite good, with the ability for those images to hang in the air holographically. Things like wind chimes are scary real. The SAM-1 is not like that, but has other great attributes of course. Who is going to  get the second pair :thumb:

When you say "the SAM-1 is not like that", are you referring to imaging properties or instruments like wind chimes sounding "scary real"?

I ask because I think one on the SAM-1's strengths, at least in my setup, is imaging much like you described.  Of course I've not heard the SAM-2, but looking forward to doing so at CAF.

Why do I have this feeling that my visit to the Soundfield Audio room is going to cost me?  :lol:

Btw, I take AJ's lack of response to my offer means the answer is "thanks, but hell no!"   :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 28 Apr 2013, 03:22 pm
Why do I have this feeling that my visit to the Soundfield Audio room is going to cost me?  :lol:

Btw, I take AJ's lack of response to my offer means the answer is "thanks, but hell no!"   :lol:
I'm not charging at the door this year Jim, come on down.  :green:

No, it means I'm still scrambling to get ready for LSAF.
Tour might happen, though it's not priority #1. Or 2 right now.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 28 Apr 2013, 03:32 pm
I'm not charging at the door this year Jim, come on down.  :green:

No, it means I'm still scrambling to get ready for LSAF.
Tour might happen, though it's not priority #1. Or 2 right now.

cheers,

AJ

It's not the cost of getting in I'm worried about, it's the cost of getting out.  :thumb:

I do understand your concerns about doing another tour.  Bigger, heavier speakers will add to shipping cost, which already wasn't cheap for the M1, and I'm guessing that there's more risk of damage?

Hope LSAF is a success for you.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 28 Apr 2013, 03:41 pm
Getting back on track, Roscoeiii was over last night for a spell, and we had a good time putting the SAM-2 through its paces. I think it was unanimous, the SAM-2 kicks serious but, and really takes things to a whole other level. Incredible. Very cool to have someone over who was so knowledgeable, homeboy has a deep repertoire of cool test tracks. The SAM-2 imaging is quite good, with the ability for those images to hang in the air holographically. Things like wind chimes are scary real. The SAM-1 is not like that, but has other great attributes of course. Who is going to  get the second pair :thumb:

Good stuff, very nice to get some listening impressions finally. A full user review would be welcome anytime, of course, and your perspective as an M1 owner is especially interesting, at least to me.

Would you say that you miss the active, high excursion bass driver in the M2?

PS - I wouldn't hate it if I got hear them next weekend  :wink:   
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 28 Apr 2013, 03:58 pm
Good stuff, very nice to get some listening impressions finally. A full user review would be welcome anytime, of course, and your perspective as an M1 owner is especially interesting, at least to me.....

+1
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 28 Apr 2013, 04:35 pm
When you say "the SAM-1 is not like that", are you referring to imaging properties or instruments like wind chimes sounding "scary real"?

I ask because I think one on the SAM-1's strengths, at least in my setup, is imaging much like you described.  Of course I've not heard the SAM-2, but looking forward to doing so at CAF.

Why do I have this feeling that my visit to the Soundfield Audio room is going to cost me?  :lol:

Btw, I take AJ's lack of response to my offer means the answer is "thanks, but hell no!"   :lol:

Both image exceptionally well, but the SAM-2 has a bit of that holographic/euphoric quality where you swear the sound is hanging in a specific place in a very real and immediate way. I will attempt a review in a bit. Now I have child superstar Raffi playing and need to change a diaper  :o
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: James Romeyn on 28 Apr 2013, 06:10 pm
Load your bazooka and fire away.  Most readers will likely find this an annoyingly stupid suggestion.

I'm not the only music lover in the world (at least one other is a professional speaker designer) who can and occasionally does audition speakers in mono.  You'd be amazed how much you can learn comparing two speakers in mono side by side.  Try it yourself sometime.  Adjusting for sensitivity difference is obviously critical, as always.  I suggest covering the unused speaker with thick comforter for two reasons: damp reflections from working speaker and damp potential passive disruption of active speaker output (unused woofer moves in/out and potentially generates small but obnoxious tweeter signal...try the following: listen to well tuned system with no non-functioning speakers in the room...bring in a box speaker and set it down between the stereo functioning pair and listen to the same music...interesting, no?  Thank Ivor Tiefenbrun for this tidbit...one speaker company used to short every input on every unused speaker in the sound room to avoid the distortion described above)     

Yes, you can even get a good sense of image and stage qualities.  You can tell quite a bit, possibly as valuable as stereo.   

Try it yourself with one each of two different speakers.

Possibly AJ could send out one SAM-2 for such audition on tour.  Did members contribute shipping cost in earlier tour of now discontinued SAM-1?   
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: roscoeiii on 28 Apr 2013, 09:45 pm
Getting back on track, Roscoeiii was over last night for a spell, and we had a good time putting the SAM-2 through its paces. I think it was unanimous, the SAM-2 kicks serious but, and really takes things to a whole other level. Incredible. Very cool to have someone over who was so knowledgeable, homeboy has a deep repertoire of cool test tracks. The SAM-2 imaging is quite good, with the ability for those images to hang in the air holographically. Things like wind chimes are scary real. The SAM-1 is not like that, but has other great attributes of course. Who is going to  get the second pair :thumb:

Yes, many thanks to pslate for having me over yesterday. We listened briefly to the SAM-1s in his living room, before plaste dragged me downstairs to hear the SAM-2s. Wow. I was liking what I heard from the SAM-1s, but with the SAM-2s my eyes bulged and jaw dropped. That's a really great sounding speaker. Loved what it was doing in the highs. My first time falling head-over-heels for a ribbon tweeter (other ribbons I had only heard in show settings). Bass was also quite tight and defined, down to say 40Hz or so. On some real bass torture tracks (James Blake, for example), the sub really helped, but for much of what we listened to the speakers were great with the sub out of the loop. As pslate said, highs from chimes and cumbals were crystal clear. These were taught and well controlled speakers that had excellent clarity. Very very impressed. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 28 Apr 2013, 09:56 pm
Load your bazooka and fire away.  Most readers will likely find this an annoyingly stupid suggestion.

I'm not the only music lover in the world (at least one other is a professional speaker designer) who can and occasionally does audition speakers in mono.  You'd be amazed how much you can learn comparing two speakers in mono side by side.  Try it yourself sometime.  Adjusting for sensitivity difference is obviously critical, as always.  I suggest covering the unused speaker with thick comforter for two reasons: damp reflections from working speaker and damp potential passive disruption of active speaker output (unused woofer moves in/out and potentially generates small but obnoxious tweeter signal...try the following: listen to well tuned system with no non-functioning speakers in the room...bring in a box speaker and set it down between the stereo functioning pair and listen to the same music...interesting, no?  Thank Ivor Tiefenbrun for this tidbit...one speaker company used to short every input on every unused speaker in the sound room to avoid the distortion described above)     

Yes, you can even get a good sense of image and stage qualities.  You can tell quite a bit, possibly as valuable as stereo.   

Try it yourself with one each of two different speakers.

Possibly AJ could send out one SAM-2 for such audition on tour.  Did members contribute shipping cost in earlier tour of now discontinued SAM-1?

I did something similar comparing two Salk models.  It was certainly useful, but I couldn't tell how they would image without auditioning in stereo.  Personally, I would want to hear a stereo pair if participating in a tour.

Participants in the SAM 1 tour paid shipping costs to send them to their next destination.  In my case the total cost was about $95 (shipping, insurance, and new outer boxes per agreement).
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 29 Apr 2013, 11:26 am
Possibly AJ could send out one SAM-2 for such audition on tour.  Did members contribute shipping cost in earlier tour of now discontinued SAM-1?

Hi James,

While I do test/listen (like Harman) in mono, it is mainly for detecting problems with the DUT. For "listening", it's always stereo (one of my contentions with their methods)...and placed as such relative to the room and my ears.
Yes, participants were responsible for shipping (charge) on to the next stop in the (M1) tour, which is precisely why, if an M2 one happens, there will be a weight/size reduction program (without SQ loss of course).

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: rollo on 29 Apr 2013, 01:19 pm
   A worthwhile tour if your in the market for speakers. Still have the M-1 here and not disappointed in the least. In our second system fed by Dodd gear. Pipedreams in the main system.



charles
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 29 Apr 2013, 01:49 pm
   A worthwhile tour if your in the market for speakers. Still have the M-1 here and not disappointed in the least. In our second system fed by Dodd gear. Pipedreams in the main system.



charles

SAM-1: Instant classic, man.  8)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 29 Apr 2013, 02:35 pm
I guess an appropriate time for the question, if it hasn't already been answered, why the discontinuation of the SAM 1?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: roscoeiii on 29 Apr 2013, 02:40 pm
I guess an appropriate time for the question, if it hasn't already been answered, why the discontinuation of the SAM 1?

No more driver availability is my understanding. But I wouldn't worry to much about that, because the SAM-2 is fabulous. Grabbed me in a way that the SAM-1 did not (though I had less time with the SAM-1). Don't get me wrong, SAM-1 was quite nice. But it was the SAM-2 that had me saying "wow!"
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 30 Apr 2013, 06:31 pm
I guess an appropriate time for the question, if it hasn't already been answered, why the discontinuation of the SAM 1?
KEF asked, very nicely, to stop using their drivers.
I obliged.  :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: jtwrace on 30 Apr 2013, 06:34 pm
KEF asked, very nicely, to stop using their drivers.
I obliged.  :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Didn't they sell them to you though?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 30 Apr 2013, 11:05 pm
Didn't they sell them to you though?
No, never directly.
Acquiring the drivers is not the issue. Use of them was.
I've moved on, so to speak.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 30 Apr 2013, 11:07 pm
Another reason they're instant classics: Rarity.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 1 May 2013, 05:07 am
I figured as much when I saw disclaimers on supplier's pages saying, "Sold for repair only".  Maybe you could make the crossover mod public domain at DIY or somewhere.  Or maybe you could sell it to KEF.   8)

At the price point you got stuck with that speaker at I wouldn't mourn the loss.  Good deal for the consumer, but I never thought sustainable for you, even at $1300. 

So I've got the reason for the demise of the KEF driver, why did the separately powered bass driver go the way of the dodo?  I always thought that was the more groundbreaking innovation.  (You can tell me to shut up any time, no offence)  And why the separately powered rear driver on the 2?  Why not wire it in series with an on/off toggle a la Snell?  (I should mention I love the rear firing tweeter design)  Lastly, for now, why the in between size?  The question is 1/2 marketing question and 1/2 design question.  I'm guessing larger cabinet for SPL as you didn't design a deeper bass extension?  For marketing I'm thinking either extend the size to floorstander or integral stand?  Thanks in advance for any answers or thoughts you'd be willing to share, and of course wishing the best of luck with the new model to one of the truly gracious gentlemen in high end audio.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 1 May 2013, 01:53 pm
I intended to quote a request for review, but just got the +1. This is for you Saturn.
+1

Let me know what tracks you would like me to compare, and I will be happy share my notes. In my mind this is the easiest/best way to provide you with useful information.
Paul
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: roscoeiii on 1 May 2013, 01:58 pm
Not sure if Pslate would agree with me or not, but I would take the SAM2 over the SAM1 based on my listening experience.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 1 May 2013, 02:01 pm
I intended to quote a request for review, but just got the +1. This is for you Saturn.
Let me know what tracks you would like me to compare, and I will be happy share my notes. In my mind this is the easiest/best way to provide you with useful information.
Paul

Thanks for the offer.  Do you have a track list?

Of course the best thing is for me to hear the SAM2 myself, which I plan to do at CAF.

 :D

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 1 May 2013, 02:40 pm
At the price point you got stuck with that speaker at I wouldn't mourn the loss.  Good deal for the consumer, but I never thought sustainable for you, even at $1300. 
Correct, but my business model is a bit different from the norm. But yes, continuing as such could not support shows and tours, plus maintenance (amp/driver failure etc) etc. without seriously being in the red.

So I've got the reason for the demise of the KEF driver, why did the separately powered bass driver go the way of the dodo?  I always thought that was the more groundbreaking innovation.  (You can tell me to shut up any time, no offence)
It didn't. The M2 is not the replacement for the M1...which will have active bass. It's a completely separate design, like all, it involves tradeoffs. I could certainly add an onboard active subwoofer, but chose not to with this design. I wanted to keep it as an under 60 lbs stand mount.
Actually, the original (M2) version was active woofer (not sub, woof) up to the 1k XO. The enclosure had to be straight sided so that the amp could be mounted on the back, or curved sided with the amp integrated into a stand (which would then be mandatory). Obviously, you can see the complexity rising. Such a version will still be released, which I'm sure will make the SET/low power folks happy.

And why the separately powered rear driver on the 2?  Why not wire it in series with an on/off toggle a la Snell?  (I should mention I love the rear firing tweeter design)
The separate filter network has zero effect of the main (front) drivers and the load presented to the amp. But more importantly, it allows remote operation/variability of the rear driver when used with a remote controlled amp (something as simple as a stereo receiver will do). For me, it is rare that I find a one setting fits all recordings. Quite the opposite. I find that various levels of rear enhancement a much better solution for various recordings, sometimes none being best! How does one do that without a remotely variable driver? Get up constantly during playback and fiddle with it in between? I'd much rather sit in one spot and adjust to taste, on the fly. I figure most others will to once they try it.

Lastly, for now, why the in between size?  The question is 1/2 marketing question and 1/2 design question.  I'm guessing larger cabinet for SPL as you didn't design a deeper bass extension?  For marketing I'm thinking either extend the size to floorstander or integral stand?  Thanks in advance for any answers or thoughts you'd be willing to share, and of course wishing the best of luck with the new model to one of the truly gracious gentlemen in high end audio.
The size was easy. That's the size required to fit all those front drivers :lol:. The planar is big (almost 10" H). It is taller (but slightly narrower) than the M1, but not heavier. Obviously a bigger stand mount, but there are several that size (I believe PSlate replaced one just that size).
Yes, floor standers are on the way. Actually, one will be at LSAF. No, not the version shown on the website, which is effectively a tower version of the M2. These will have active (mid)bass  :wink:.

cheers,

AJ

Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 1 May 2013, 03:59 pm
Thanks for the great answers AJ.  I can see how I was looking at the M2 as the evolution of the M1 when it's not, which makes much more sense to me.  This is good news as I assume that means there will someday be another M1 variation, as your schedule permits. 

I suppose we'll just disagree on the rear tweeter.  Although I understand the added flexibility, where I come from is owning Snell speakers with a rear supertweeter that has a toggle switch and I always left it on for every recording, from rock to classical.  What we'll agree on is the added ambience of a rear firing tweeter, or other drivers a la 1812, opens up the sound so much that I can't imagine why more designers don't include it.

There is a significant history of larger monitors in the marketplace, think Polk, B&W, JBL 4311 (had 'em), and even older Altecs and Tannoys.  And there's plenty of stands that fit the M2.  But there's a reason why zillions of bookshelf speakers are sold in the sizes popular today, and why Polk, B&W, JBL, Altec, and Tannoy don't offer those sizes anymore.  Now of course your marketing model is much different from theirs and the distinction may be a clear advantage as exclusivity and pride of owning something that no one else has (relatively) is a strong suit for you.  However the marketer in me says don't make it too hard or complex for the public, we think "Man, extra cables and amps, I gotta buy new stands, I dunno".  So I would respectfully suggest in the future thinking about implementing the dedicated stands you mentioned (maybe as option or upgrade) and a more complete solution for the tweeter, possibly an inexpensive Chinese T amp with a little remote, they cost about $10-20 in reasonable lot sizes.

And it goes without saying we know all of the products you bring to us are put together with limited time and I'm sure everything you want yourself doesn't always make it in.  It's amazing what you do with that time as it is, the speakers are better than what full time engineers with corporate budgets do, I hope you'll take my suggestions as constructive. 
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: medium jim on 1 May 2013, 04:05 pm
Kudos to those like AJ who make them affordable.   I too had my share of small to medium sized monitors over the years and still have a pair of Dynaco's that were cost friendly and did pretty much what the big name guys offerings did.  Every now and then I hook them up and transport back to a time where things were much less complicated (for me). 

Jim
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 May 2013, 04:18 pm
Thanks for the great answers AJ.  I can see how I was looking at the M2 as the evolution of the M1 when it's not, which makes much more sense to me.  This is good news as I assume that means there will someday be another M1 variation, as your schedule permits. 

I suppose we'll just disagree on the rear tweeter.  Although I understand the added flexibility, where I come from is owning Snell speakers with a rear supertweeter that has a toggle switch and I always left it on for every recording, from rock to classical.  What we'll agree on is the added ambience of a rear firing tweeter, or other drivers a la 1812, opens up the sound so much that I can't imagine why more designers don't include it.

There is a significant history of larger monitors in the marketplace, think Polk, B&W, JBL 4311 (had 'em), and even older Altecs and Tannoys.  And there's plenty of stands that fit the M2.  But there's a reason why zillions of bookshelf speakers are sold in the sizes popular today, and why Polk, B&W, JBL, Altec, and Tannoy don't offer those sizes anymore.  Now of course your marketing model is much different from theirs and the distinction may be a clear advantage as exclusivity and pride of owning something that no one else has (relatively) is a strong suit for you.  However the marketer in me says don't make it too hard or complex for the public, we think "Man, extra cables and amps, I gotta buy new stands, I dunno".  So I would respectfully suggest in the future thinking about implementing the dedicated stands you mentioned (maybe as option or upgrade) and a more complete solution for the tweeter, possibly an inexpensive Chinese T amp with a little remote, they cost about $10-20 in reasonable lot sizes.

And it goes without saying we know all of the products you bring to us are put together with limited time and I'm sure everything you want yourself doesn't always make it in.  It's amazing what you do with that time as it is, the speakers are better than what full time engineers with corporate budgets do, I hope you'll take my suggestions as constructive.

Interesting points, my man.

Seems to me that one of the features of Soundfield Audio up to this point has been something of a conscious disregard for a lot of the marketing calculations that normally go into building and branding audio gear, in favor of science-based implementation of available technology using utilitarian design principles- IOW 'get the best sound, with the least extraneous costs.'

Now, for me, it was kind of a no brainer when the SAM1s were offered, because they offered these sound design principles without the magic audiophile markup (a la 'marine' equipment... go to a marine supply store and see how much a bag of screws cost  :o). And this is possible because, correct me if I'm wrong here, but AJ's prime motivation, even second motivation, is not the money, or being able to send his kids to college with the proceeds of his speaker sales.

So, I don't know if I'm correct about this, but it seems to me that as long as AJ's making and selling this stuff, better get some of it, because it can't be a forever 'business' model.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 1 May 2013, 05:38 pm
... and I forgot to mention - the very reason that AJ is able to innovate is that he hasn't started with the question, 'What will sell, and how much margin can I build in?', rather he's apparently started with the question, 'What will sound best?'.

Revolutionary!  :lol:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 1 May 2013, 05:39 pm
Interesting points, my man.

Seems to me that one of the features of Soundfield Audio up to this point has been something of a conscious disregard for a lot of the marketing calculations that normally go into building and branding audio gear, in favor of science-based implementation of available technology using utilitarian design principles- IOW 'get the best sound, with the least extraneous costs.'

Now, for me, it was kind of a no brainer when the SAM1s were offered, because they offered these sound design principles without the magic audiophile markup (a la 'marine' equipment... go to a marine supply store and see how much a bag of screws cost  :o). And this is possible because, correct me if I'm wrong here, but AJ's prime motivation, even second motivation, is not the money, or being able to send his kids to college with the proceeds of his speaker sales.

So, I don't know if I'm correct about this, but it seems to me that as long as AJ's making and selling this stuff, better get some of it, because it can't be a forever 'business' model.

I kicked myself for not getting the SAM-1's at the introductory price, but I am so pleased that I have a pair. I learned it pays to get in at the ground level with Soundfield stuff, so when the SAM-2 came up, and I heard it at Axpona, I hopped right on it. My expectations have been exceeded by a great degree, mind blowing stuff. Not sure if prices could rise, I don't think that is the plan, but I didn't want to risk it either.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 8 May 2013, 12:58 am
I'm not charging at the door this year Jim, come on down.  :green:

No, it means I'm still scrambling to get ready for LSAF.
Tour might happen, though it's not priority #1. Or 2 right now.

cheers,

AJ

So how was LSAF?  Hope it went well for you.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 8 May 2013, 02:31 am
So how was LSAF?  Hope it went well for you.
It was fun. Check out the LSAF threads (others had even more fun!).
Was nice to test out the prototype systems in a huge (but probably unrealistic) room. Looking forward to the more domestic sized space of CapFest...though they did move this year... :duh:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 9 May 2013, 06:39 pm
So I would respectfully suggest in the future thinking about implementing the dedicated stands you mentioned (maybe as option or upgrade) and a more complete solution for the tweeter, possibly an inexpensive Chinese T amp with a little remote, they cost about $10-20 in reasonable lot sizes.

Sorry I missed this. There are several options regarding the rear tweeter, as Paul can attest to.
The stands are coming, mandatory for the curved sided active (woofer) version. I actually bought such an amp (cheapo) for just such purpose, prior to building the M2, only to find the "remote volume" was a farce :duh:. But yes, an integrated solution, included with speaker, would obviously be optional and one I've been very busy exploring.
It's impossible to insult me :lol:.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. CapFest will be here in no time, see you there. New venue too. Maybe I'll bring the tour pair with for launch. No promises.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Letitroll98 on 10 May 2013, 04:21 am
Sweet.  I'm glad we're thinking along the same lines.  And trust me, I've brought several new products to market and you never get all the things you want included the first time you bring it to market. 

"L'arte non รจ mai finita, solo abbandonata."
                                          Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: xsb7244 on 14 May 2013, 01:16 am
What time is it?  Time to start a Soundfield Audio Monitor 2 thread.  Somebody please start a new thread.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 14 May 2013, 02:05 am
What time is it?  Time to start a Soundfield Audio Monitor 2 thread.  Somebody please start a new thread.

Sounds like we have a volunteer  :wink:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 14 May 2013, 02:10 am
What time is it?  Time to start a Soundfield Audio Monitor 2 thread.  Somebody please start a new thread.

Here you go;

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116711.new#new

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: pslate on 17 Mar 2015, 04:54 pm
Just a note to recommend AJ's excellent service. I had to send in one of my SAMs and AJ could not have been more helpful or easy to work with. I am soooooooooo happy to have it back. I still love these things just as much as the first day I got them. Best decision I ever made in audio.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: skite30 on 17 Mar 2015, 07:52 pm
I can second the AJ is amazingly helpful. He installed some mundorf sio caps in them and replaced a driver that fedex damaged. All at no charge plus he took me to lunch. How great is that for customer service. I still love mine and highly recommend the sio caps as a really good upgrade. I have had mine for 3 years which in 30 years is,the longest I have kept a speaker and have not even thought about changing them.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 17 Mar 2015, 08:20 pm
+1 on the excellent service.  :thumb:

Still loving my M1s as well.  8)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: rollo on 17 Mar 2015, 08:40 pm
  I agree AJ is a rare bird in our business. Extremely helpful, an expert at what he does and more than fair with pricing. Not many others can claim that.
   His products ARE the real deal. Once you hear them at home you look for your checkbook. Highly recommended.


charles
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 17 Mar 2015, 09:26 pm
Thanks guys, promo checks are in the mail, 50 bucks a piece as per usual :lol:

Was wondering who resurrected this thing...checking a pm I got and saw this, whoa.
Unfortunately no LSAF for me again this year due to Axpona being weekend before. What a bummer. :(

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: S Clark on 17 Mar 2015, 11:22 pm
Sorry to hear that Dallas is not in your plans.  Hearing your SAM1's a few years back was the surprise of the show for me... in a very, very good way. 

Scott
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 18 Mar 2015, 09:35 pm
Thanks guys, promo checks are in the mail, 50 bucks a piece as per usual :lol:

Was wondering who resurrected this thing...checking a pm I got and saw this, whoa.
Unfortunately no LSAF for me again this year due to Axpona being weekend before. What a bummer. :(

cheers,

AJ

How about CAF this year?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: xsb7244 on 19 Mar 2015, 02:40 am
Guys,

is this the proper ranking?

1.  Monitor 1
2.  Monitor 2
3.  VSFT-1
4.  VSFT-2
5.  VSFT-3
6.  1812 Overtures
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 19 Mar 2015, 03:53 am
Ranking... in terms of price? Think so.
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: neekomax on 19 Mar 2015, 03:58 am
Speaking of the SAM1 though... just grooved over to the Soundfield Audio website, and it says that a 'new improved' M1 is in the works. Hmmm...

AJ, any details for the fans?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Mar 2015, 12:05 pm
Sorry to hear that Dallas is not in your plans.  Hearing your SAM1's a few years back was the surprise of the show for me... in a very, very good way. 

Scott
Hi Scott,

It was good meeting you. In all honesty, LSAF is my favorite show. No pretensions, just bring your audio wares to share with others, even DIYers. IOW, an audio show. Shame that Axpona shifted later in Apr, but I understand why, just as I understand why LSAF won't just to accommodate that shift.
Unfortunately flying back from CHI late Mon (gear shipped from Axpona to arrive back later in week), to fly out to Dallas Thu....isn't happening.
Maybe I'll skip CHI next year (as I had planned this year!). :wink:

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Mar 2015, 12:07 pm
How about CAF this year?

Possibly. We'll see. Was going to skip Axpona to attend at least CAF, but plans changed (Promoter pulled a Godfather on me).

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Mar 2015, 12:11 pm
Guys,

is this the proper ranking?

1.  Monitor 1
2.  Monitor 2
3.  VSFT-1
4.  VSFT-2
5.  VSFT-3
6.  1812 Overtures

Not sure what you mean by ranking, but by price, yes, pretty close.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Mar 2015, 12:14 pm
Speaking of the SAM1 though... just grooved over to the Soundfield Audio website, and it says that a 'new improved' M1 is in the works. Hmmm...

AJ, any details for the fans?

Yes. It's in the works.
 :lol:
I'm always an email or call away at my gmail address (on website). If/when they are ready, I'll post in the manufacturers section.

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: Saturn94 on 19 Mar 2015, 01:41 pm
Possibly. We'll see. Was going to skip Axpona to attend at least CAF, but plans changed (Promoter pulled a Godfather on me).

cheers,

AJ

I hope to see you at CAF. :)
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: xsb7244 on 19 Mar 2015, 07:17 pm
8 years of work on the 1812 Overtures.  What is the background on these speakers?
Title: Re: Soundfield Audio Monitor 1... Here We Go!
Post by: xsb7244 on 15 Apr 2015, 01:49 am
I hope the website will be finished soon.  We all know about the Monitor 1 and Monitor 2.  We don't know anything about the other speakers?
The price is needed and please add 1812 Overtures to the website.