[ricko01]

So the signal chain is:

1- Blu-ray transport has HDMI set to PCM
2- HDMI cable into HDMI de-embedder
3- de-embedder SPDIF into BDA-1

And it works... but what confuses me is two conflicting statements.

Standard SPDIF/Toslink only supports 2.0 PCM yet my Blu-ray transport states that if the HDMI out is set to PCM then the HDMI will send multi-linear PCM.

That implies that it is sending more than two channels of PCM ...so it can do that because:

1- HDMI can support more that two SPDIF streams
2- AV receivers can accept these multiple SPDIF streams cause its being sent over HDMI

So given the fact that the BDA-1 is processing the SPDIF out from the de-embedder... can I assume that I am not losing any of the surround channels and the LFE (ie the de-emdedder is doing the mix down)?

The de-embedder manual (a Kannex HAECOAX ) is not clear on what it may be doing.

Thanks,

Peter

[ricko01]

solved.

I downloaded a video VOB file that tested all 5.1 channels and all came through ok

[ragg987]

Another way to ensure you are not losing information in the channels is to set your blu-ray to downmix to PCM2.0 and then send that over the HDMI. Also, could you not bypass the de-embedder completely by sending PCM2.0 to the BDA over SPDIF? Will depend on your blu-ray hardware and decode / downmix options.

HDMI permits a higher data rate than SPDIF, so is capable of up to 8 channels (e.g. 7.1) of PCM. Consumer SPDIF is limited to 2 channels of PCM.

Note that SPDIF is an interface standard, PCM is the data stream format - do not confuse the two.

[Phil A]

When I was using a de-embedder with my BDA-1, I was using an Oppo BDP-83 (only one that seemed to work with the de-embedder w/o a handshake issue as well as output 24/88.2 from SACDs and pass 192 - others would pass 16/176.4 from SACD though - the Oppos seem to be the ones that can do 24 bit - I dragged an Integra over to John Gatski's place of Everything Audio Nework who had a A/D/Sample Rate Converter that would show bit depth - only DAC that I believe will do that is the newer Benchmark) set to output PCM and to 2-channel SACD.  If I did a DVD-A through it, I selected the Stereo mix.  I had a few players I used when I had a BDA-1 and de-embedder in the main system but have since moved to DSD playback via files.

[ricko01]

Downside of the Kanex Pro.... the "manual" isnt very clear.... maybe they assume a certain level of understanding from the end user.

Upside is it one of the few that have RCA SPDIF... most only have optical (unless you want to spend a large sum of money)

As noted, I have set my HDMI output at the universal player end to output PCM... I have done this as I assume the player is a better place to do this (ie less stress on the Kanex Pro as it just has to do the stripping and no conversion from bitstream to PCM)

So my experience with the Kanex Pro is:

- for DVD-V's, do NOT press the "2.0" button. While most of my music DVD-V's have a 2.0 LPCM audio option (ie the pressing the "2.0" button will have no affect), for those that only have a 5.1 sound track, pressing the "2.0" button losses most channels. In this case the Kanex Pro will be doing down mixing from the 5.1 input.

- for DVD-A, you must press the "2.0" button . This is the only way you will see say a 96k signal. Leaving it in 5.1 means the Kanex Pro will receive a 5.1 signal and due to bandwidth limits with DVD-A, a full 5.1 selection may only have 48k on each of the channels

- I have yet to test hi-res DTS encoded music discs... but would assume they work the same as DVD-V's with DTS


The upside of a HDMI  de-embedder is that you get past any 48K SPDIF output restriction. So my ultimate goal can now be reached... I am ripping my hi res music DVD-A/DTS/SACD silver disks as 96/24 "2.0" files for replay over my music server.

Once this done, I can set the Kannex pro to its 5.1 setting which covers playback of my ripped music DVD-V's via my DLNA enabled universal player and all my redbook and hi-res music via my music server.

Redbook ripping/music server playback is simple.... just one format.... but any other silver disk is a pain... so many formats to deal with.

Peter

[ricko01]

Another way to ensure you are not losing information in the channels is to set your blu-ray to downmix to PCM2.0 and then send that over the HDMI. Also, could you not bypass the de-embedder completely by sending PCM2.0 to the BDA over SPDIF? Will depend on your blu-ray hardware and decode / downmix options.

HDMI permits a higher data rate than SPDIF, so is capable of up to 8 channels (e.g. 7.1) of PCM. Consumer SPDIF is limited to 2 channels of PCM.

Note that SPDIF is an interface standard, PCM is the data stream format - do not confuse the two.

I always had my universal player set to PCM over HDMI but the issue is I cant force it into 2.0 mode... so it will send multi-channel LCPM where DVD-V's only have a 5.1 sound track... and thats where I initially came unstuck.

I thought setting the de-embedder to 2.0 was the way to go... but in fact I needed to leave it at 5.1. The de-embedder would then sense my DAC only supported 2.0 and do the downmixing.

Thanks,

Peter

[Phil A]

I have both the Monoprice and Port-ta de-embedder (which are one in the same as Port-ta of Hong Kong makes it).  When I was using the de-embedder (in addition to an upgraded power supply which helped), I used the 5.1 button for 2-channel.  Again, if you are using probably any other player except the Oppos (pre 103/105 as from memory Everything Audio Net tested them and they truncated to 16 bit), it's fairly certain that you are just getting 16 bit.  I've tested them all the way to 192kHz.  The best player that truncated to 16 bit was the Integra universal I have (better than Sony on SACD converted to PCM).

[ricko01]

I have both the Monoprice and Port-ta de-embedder (which are one in the same as Port-ta of Hong Kong makes it).  When I was using the de-embedder (in addition to an upgraded power supply which helped), I used the 5.1 button for 2-channel.  Again, if you are using probably any other player except the Oppos (pre 103/105 as from memory Everything Audio Net tested them and they truncated to 16 bit), it's fairly certain that you are just getting 16 bit.  I've tested them all the way to 192kHz.  The best player that truncated to 16 bit was the Integra universal I have (better than Sony on SACD converted to PCM).

My ADC tells my both incoming sample rate AND bit rate... so I am seeing 24/96.

While I dont have a large selection of hi-res silver disks (maybe 100 as opposed to 1000's for CD),  I have yet to see any (as per reading the liner notes) that go above 24/96.

But you are right... its all a murky world when you want to playback above redbook resolution over SPDIF at the highest rate possible.

Thanks for your comments.

Peter