Turntable Help

Escott1377 · « **on:** 9 Oct 2015, 02:45 pm »

I own a VPI Classic I w/ a Soundsmith Voice cartridge.

My stereo has been in time out for about 5 months while I waited for a speaker repair and upgrade.

I am getting static on the upper module of my speakers, so the mids / tweets (VSA VR4jrs).

I have to admit that both of the tables that I have owned have come set up for me.

I did check the tracking force on the Voice and it is @ 1.3 grams and the cartridge is rated for 1 g.

I have never adjusted the arm since I have owned the table.

Can anyone help me start in the direction of trying to diagnose?

I usually run right on the aluminum plinth, but have a felt and cork mat that I can use, they do not seem to be help / hinder.

Thanks in advance -

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 04:28 pm »

Is this specific to vinyl playback? CD or digital file playback is fine?

Escott1377 · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 04:41 pm »

specific to vinyl. Von Schweikert put the speakers thru a solid test before shipping out.

richidoo · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 04:50 pm »

If only the top half the speaker is working while the bottom half is OK, and same on both sides, then it's 99% likely the problem is the speaker crossovers, or bad connections to them. Verify a good signal is going to the tops by using some other speakers, even small HT satellites or whatever. Shipping can damage speakers.

neobop · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 05:08 pm »

Hi,
Tell us about the static. Does it get louder with the volume control, or is it constant?
Does this overwhelm the music, or more of an annoyance in the background?

The obvious culprits could be the tonearm ground wire, cables, or a loose connection somewhere.
What electronics are you using?

neo

Escott1377 · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 07:08 pm »

When the volume goes up, the static goes away. When listening to a softer passage, it becomes present.

I run a bi amp set up with tube mono blocs on the highs and solid state mono blocs on the woofers.

Phono pre amp is a Manley Chinook.

I will check the ground, since I changed tubes in the phono section yesterday and it could have come loose.

My next move will be to jumper the solid state to both modules and pull the tube amps out of the mix.

Would using the clamp (weight) that came with the VPI make it more susceptible to vibration?

I added 2 x 10" subs to the mix as well.

Thank you all for the help - if you can think of any other suggestions please throw them my way.

richidoo · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 07:24 pm »

Do you hear static in the bass speakers when top speakers are turned off? "Static" is broadband noise, you'll hear it in bass too. If not, then everything upstream of the tube amps and top speakers is OK.

Connect the known good SS amps to the top speakers alone, using the known good bass speaker cables. If static remains it's in the speakers.

Weird that it gets better with more volume.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 09:01 pm »

Might not be the turntable at all.

The static might actually be static from the surface of the record. Do you have a RCM to clean your records? A zerostat gun to eliminate pent up static? Do you have the turntable properly grounded to the preamp/phono/both? I would investigate that first.

If that's not it, do you hear the static with just the preamp set to the chinook input and nothing playing? If so, does it increase by turning up the preamp volume?

Is yes to both of those, could be a bad tube in the chinook. That's an easy fix.

neobop · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Oct 2015, 09:15 pm »

Unless I misunderstood, you said, "specific to vinyl" - the noise is only with your record player, not digital or other high level source?

If that is the case there's no need to bypass the tube amp. It's not the amp or speakers, it's the record player or Manley Chinook. You just changed the tubes in the phono - #1 likely cause. Check that first. Are the old tubes functional? It might be a little tedious, but if you substitute them one at a time you can probably tell which tube is noisy.

If you're only getting mid/tweeter noise it's unlikely that's caused by the subs. There could be some preamp interaction, but it should be common to all sources. It also doesn't sound like the record player is being affected by the subs if the background hiss is only higher frequencies. Bet it's a phono tube.

BTW, the Voice is rated for 1g VTF for the high compliance version. Medium compliance is 1.3g.
neo

Escott1377 · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Oct 2015, 03:52 pm »

I pulled the ground wire from the table to the Chinook and reattached.

Swapped the Chinook tubes and the static has gone away.

I pulled a quad set of gold pin Mullards out, hope they were not the issue since they are a favorite.

I have not invested in a Zerostat - worth the $$?

Thank you everyone for your help.

richidoo · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Oct 2015, 04:17 pm »

Excellent!!

Minn Mark · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Oct 2015, 04:23 pm »

Escott,
IF you have problems with static, I think a zerostat works,and works well. I have red one many, many years old, but it still works. I don't always have issues with static, but times of the year I do, and it really helps take the static charge out of a record. I also routinely use a carbon fiber cleaning brush--well worth the small $20-25 investment.

Mark

griffithds · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Oct 2015, 04:45 pm »

This is an excellent anti-static brush. I have bought this for $8 on the same auction site. I have also seen the same brush listed for $40. All depends on who's name you want to see on it. BTW: That 'name' quickly rubs off! Once you use these, you will never play a record again without using it first. Way recommended.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRM-TECH-ANTI-STATIC-CARBON-FIBRE-RECORD-BRUSH-/331673689860?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

sunnydaze · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Oct 2015, 06:40 pm »

Quote from: griffithds on 10 Oct 2015, 04:45 pm

This is an excellent anti-static brush. I have bought this for $8 on the same auction site. I have also seen the same brush listed for $40. All depends on who's name you want to see on it. BTW: That 'name' quickly rubs off! Once you use these, you will never play a record again without using it first. Way recommended.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRM-TECH-ANTI-STATIC-CARBON-FIBRE-RECORD-BRUSH-/331673689860?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Same exact brush at Turntablebasics.com, Amazon, Music Direct and numerous other sites.....14 dollar range. Like Griff says, same exact brush just a different label on it. Don't be a sucker and pay the rip off merchants 40 bux to get a "premium" name on it!

Escott1377 · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Oct 2015, 08:56 pm »

I have that brush, with the name brand on it.

I clean my records with a wet solution when I buy them and then put them into a MoFi sleeve when dry.

I usually clean my entire collection twice a year and replace into new MoFi sleeves.

I have the gel style stylus cleaner.

I typically will dip the stylus every few records, should I be using the anti static brush each time before playing?

Same for the stat gun, each time?

Thanks -

neobop · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Oct 2015, 02:03 pm »

Quote from: Escott1377 on 10 Oct 2015, 03:52 pm

I pulled the ground wire from the table to the Chinook and reattached.

Swapped the Chinook tubes and the static has gone away.

I pulled a quad set of gold pin Mullards out, hope they were not the issue since they are a favorite.

I have not invested in a Zerostat - worth the $$?

Thank you everyone for your help.

Unless the ground wire wasn't making good contact, you have a bad tube. It's easier if you do one thing at a time so you know what's doing what. I don't know how Chinook is configured, but the tube might not actually be "bad". A phono stage has a tremendous amount of gain and the tube(s) in question could be okay in a different application. Substitute them one or two at a time to figure out which are bad.

A carbon fiber brush is for dusting the record before play. Used lightly, it won't build up static. It's really not much good for draining static away. Use a Zerostat for that. Static is a problem in dry conditions, depending on where you live etc. You should at least use a soft stylus brush after each side, and use the gel every record or two. Glad it's working out.
neo

Escott1377 · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Oct 2015, 01:53 pm »

So, my static issue has returned. I have put roughly a week's worth of playtime on the speakers and have hooked up multiple digital sources to verify there is not an issue w/ the speakers.

I also can turn the gain up all of the way on the phono input w/ no sound at all - I can hear the gain raising since it is so high thru the Chinook.

And, this doesn't occur on every album. I listened to a 1 album last night, then my wife came upstairs and I put on the MoFi release of Allyson Kraus live and the static returned.

My records are spotless and are always in a Mo Fi sleeve and I also use outer sleeves for the albums themselves.

I have made sure to lightly brush each album w/ the anti static brush before playing.

The only change that I have made since my speakers returned is a cork mat and I am now using the VPI record clamp.

If it is static build up, why not on every album and why only in the tweeters / mids?

I am perplexed and don't want to begin messing with the cartridge since that will only result in more questions.

Should I go back with another thorough cleaning of my collection.

Please let me know your thoughts and thanks!

sunnydaze · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Oct 2015, 02:17 pm »

IMO, don't waste your time cleaning your collection. That's not your problem. Your procedure is already impeccable...congrats!

Your approach is much better than my vinyl cleaning rituals, and I never experience what you are.

I don't know the source of your noise.... it's perplexing .......but I'm convinced it's not your cleaning approaches.

GentleBender · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Oct 2015, 02:21 pm »

Do you wet clean your records? Not that I know much, but just trying to figure out if maybe some residue is left on some records resulting in the undesirable sound.

Escott1377 · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Oct 2015, 02:35 pm »

I do wet clean and I have thought about your point being something left on the record surface.

It's strange that this did not occur before I sent my speakers back in.

So, to rule out - not any component issue? I don't need to be monkeying around w/ my stylus?

Should the static brush remove any static on the surface prior to playing? I live in SC and just turned on my heat this morning, so not at all a dry climate.

Thanks, this has reached frustration level Defcon 1