2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions

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LM

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  • Lyn
2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« on: 5 Sep 2009, 04:05 am »
Well, I was silly enough this week to take home Hugh's freshly completed demo 2009 Soraya CB105 and run it in my system (see my details) for 3 days.  Stupid, stupid, stupid boy!  This amp should come with a label "WARNING; addictive, listening too long may create dependence on this product".  Even worse though, it is not practical for Hugh to upgrade an older amp as so many new parts are involved it's a new amp at the end anyway; even the case and heat sinks are different let alone the new power supply and amp modules themselves.  So after the demo unit was returned and discussions with my wife completed, I realized that a second label was also needed "DANGER extended use may cause bank accounts to be rapidly depleted".  :duh:

I'll leave the technical stuff and specification changes for Hugh to describe but I can certainly attempt to document why I thought the new version was a must have.  Firstly, I should emphasize that until I heard the new beast, I was perfectly happy with the old Soraya and loved the existing clean, clear, effortless sound.  Secondly, I still have the GK1 Platinum rather than the improved GK2 (Hawk) in my system so there still remains room for alternative and perhaps greater Aspen based improvement.  In fact the overall sound impression of the new amp is strikingly similar to the old and we are probably talking about a few percentage points or so difference at most.  Nevertheless, it was some quite specific areas of improvement that stood out to me and really got me hooked.

I believe that Hugh has apparently been working on minimizing and/or optimizing distortion as somewhat of a priority.  As a result, the difference is mainly that of improved clarity, detail and drive, conferring an amazing presence and refinement.  This is what I loved most though I'm sure others might opt for the warmer settings that I understand that Hugh can provide as options with this circuit.

Within the first few minutes of listening, I identified four specific areas of improvement I could readily hear even with only a few hours up on the amp.  They were (not necessarily in order of importance):  :D :D :D :D
1.   Increased effective base extension.  I can now more readily distinguish the lowest 20 to 30hz tones that my speakers are capable of.  This fuller "way down deep" performance really fills out the base and makes listening a quite visceral experience.
2.   More mid and upper base detail and speed. For example the hit of stick on a drum skin now has a much increased impact or snap.  The punch from these combined base improvements really drives and underpins the music cleanly and beautifully in my system.
3.   Greater mid range presence.  The old clich? that the singer is in the room with me has never been truer.  Crystal clear and quite 3D.
4.   Treble refinement.  Cymbals for example present as super clean, strong and really shimmer.  All treble is delicate, detailed and seems to extend hugely.  No obvious harshness.

Negatives?  No, none that I can find though I must admit that the increased base presence was so unusual that it felt a bit much at first.  However, it soon became evident that base was clean, tight and the FR accurate.

In summary then, the soundstage for new Soraya purchasers is a little wider, higher and deeper than before.  Separation, detail, layering and imaging are excellent and PRAT must be considered first class.  Base is magnificent and overall presence and the three dimensionality of the stage image is simply outstanding.  As incremental improvements go, this is really a bit of a stunner and I can't see me personally needing to go beyond this amp however better the 150W amp might be.  What else can I say but have a listen folks however you can manage it.  Do remember the warning labels though.  :nono:

AKSA

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #1 on: 5 Sep 2009, 05:12 am »
HI Lyn,

Many thanks for a very nice review, and from where I stand a most accurate assessment of the 2009 update Soraya.  I think you've nailed it.....

Many will want to know Lyn's system - it's a good one, too.  Vandersteen Signature 3A transmission line speakers, which stand fully five feet tall;  Arcam CD player, not sure of the model, but a pricey one;  and of course a platinum upgraded GK1 preamp.  He also has a recently rebuilt turntable, a Denon high output MC cartridge, and a Cambridge audio RIAA MM preamp.

The room has a combination of carpet, soft furnishings and timber framed, leadlight windows;  he lives in a beautiful Californian bungalow with a lot of oiled timber.  The room is not overly large, though fairly deep, and the speakers are about six feet apart, with the listening position and speakers forming a near equilateral triangle.

Thanks again, Lyn, great review!


Hugh

LM

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  • Lyn
Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #2 on: 5 Sep 2009, 06:36 am »
Thanks for the thanks Hugh but I'm pretty much just stating for the forum what I heard and felt.  It's going to be fascinating to hear to what degree others who borrow the amp hear the same as me.  I feel there was probably some more to discover and know there were a few people lined up to listen or I would still have it!!!!  :nono:

Question though.  Whilst I probably noticed the other 3 points first, the strongest and most lasting impression has come from the 2nd point, the speed and punch of the new design.  As a non-technician, would it be correct to say this amp is faster?  aa

AKSA

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #3 on: 5 Sep 2009, 07:08 am »
Thanks Lyn!!

Yes, you are 100% correct, it's faster......  the input stage is running twice the current and consequently the slew rate measures almost twice as fast, around 24V/uS according to simulations done in comparison with the older model.

This is ameliorated with a low pass filter, to stop RFI.  You should not have too high a slew rate for this reason!

Cheers,

Hugh


VYnuhl.Addict

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #4 on: 6 Sep 2009, 06:34 am »
Lyn,


    Glad to see you unknowignly re-affirm that Hugh and I are far from deaf yet!. Its nice reading your review, can't find anything to disagree with and its very well put in writing. If you have a few "hours" Hugh could probably explain to you the process of coming to this design,  :wink:, but in short form I think goes to show the possibilities for improvement "still" at this state in SS audio. The 150w has the same sonic character, but with a further level of refinement with a different Output Stage to accomadate the drive capability for 150w 8R naturally. Very glad to see the first of hopefully many more to come in good reviews, it makes the hard yards of the sometimes subtlly intense process all the more worthwhile to see this and in this day and age one of the few amplifiers that are really truly hands on from start to finish of the design.. Id think for Hugh the biggest compliment that could ever be paid to his designs are the "I cant stop listening to it" comments, thats what the stuff we call music should be about!..


Colin



LM

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  • Lyn
Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #5 on: 6 Sep 2009, 08:05 am »
Hi Colin,

Hugh has already explained some of the conceptual development background and effort you have both put in while he was bench testing the prototype before handing it over to me.  I had heard the quite amazing cobbled together 'breadboard' prototype previously which was what was making me so excited to be able to take a real 100W amp home.  I think some of the detail went over my head although I did manage to understand the important basic changes.  Sort of like reading up on a new model Aston Martin, Porsche or Ferrari although none of the reading quite prepares you for the reality of the test drive. :thumb:

daredevil_kk

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #6 on: 6 Sep 2009, 02:13 pm »
Hi Lyn,

Any idea if the amp is fully run in? :roll: Maybe a bit more juice is still hidden somewhere. aa But it is still a great review.

I will put in my review when I get my paws on it. :thumb:

BTW Hugh, the option to "warm" the amp sound is very interesting. :scratch: Mine will be set to which setting? Very cold and hot?  :lol:

KK

LM

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  • Lyn
Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #7 on: 7 Sep 2009, 12:27 am »
Quote
Any idea if the amp is fully run in?
Hi KK, probably not but it may be a slightly unusual build as I understood Hugh put it together from some pre-existing components.  I'm trying to remember exactly what Hugh said when he was testing it but for example, the power supply was from the earlier build Soraya while the rest of the circuits I presume were new - brand new caps etc.  Hugh will have to comment on this but the whole build had not had any settling time when I heard it if this makes a difference.

Actually, I can't wait to get my hands on the one that I have ordered either but Hugh has quite a few orders on the books apparently.  I even tried to bribe him with coffee and chocolate but still will be at least 2 weeks before he can start apparently.  No queue jumping - I'm sure it would be quite a stern frown if I really suggested such a thing.  Bit frustrating though as I will not be able to report any long term impressions of a settled in amp beyond what I have said previously, till delivered.  :)

AKSA

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #8 on: 7 Sep 2009, 12:41 am »
Hi KK,

Lyn is on the money - all amp components brand new, but power supply (UFSR diodes, Nichicon KGs) from a previous model Soraya, fully run in.  Input caps were run in Sonicaps, chosen for transparency.

I would expect the amp to sound a bit smoother after run in, as the BG NX caps are used on the bias network and the Vbe multiplier and they do take time to bed down.  Same could be said of the UCC HF caps on the rail and front end decoupler networks.

Gotta get back to the workshop!    :wink:
 
Hugh



bluesky

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Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #9 on: 7 Sep 2009, 12:55 am »
Hmm, I wouldn't mind one of these amps to show off at our next Queensland Audio Club meeting.  Some of the lads (and one lass!) have some outrageously expensive components, I have seen systems worth more my my house, which don't even sound that good, but sure look impressive.  I would love to have such a relatively cheap amp like the Soyara "Stradivarius MKII" that would blow all this stuff into the weeds and demonstrate what a terribly sophisticated chap I am!

There is a wonderful Arabic saying "that a poor man's children is his treasure".  I therefore offer my two ratbag teenager sons with truly prodigious skills of eating, farting, fighting between themselves over issues that don't matter (even to them) and making a mess (their bedrooms look like a war zone), to the value of one of these amps.  Somehow I don't think there will be any takers! :wink:

Ian

PS They do actually clean up their bedrooms, about once or twice a year whenever they are about to entertain a prospective girlfriend.  I'm serious, I have seen such a thing with my own eyes, once the girlfriend has gone they settle back into being grubs again. :lol:   

LM

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  • Lyn
Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #10 on: 7 Sep 2009, 02:23 am »
Quote
I would love to have such a relatively cheap amp like the Soyara "Stradivarius MKII" that would blow all this stuff into the weeds and demonstrate what a terribly sophisticated chap I am!

Ian,

Interesting you should have such thoughts about value that seem to mimic mine as well as a similar desire to show good kit that you have recognized to the world.  :thumb:

When I posted initially, I almost felt as if I was somehow trying to take credit for Hugh and Colin's work as the review could read as an almost 'how smart am I for recognizing the quality' sort of comment.  Nevertheless I did eventually hit the 'return' button and am now glad I did.  I really do wish that more people could soon hear this amp and make their own decision as to its worth and it not just be 'my opinion'.

As to the worth side, I really feel that this is always going to be a difficult area for Aspen.  Everyone, me included, would love an amp the quality of a Soraya to be $1K.  When I look inside though, I see more than that amount in top quality components alone let alone the IP, R&D and assembly costs etc. etc.  To have an absolute state of the art 100W amp hand built for around the $5K mark is actually rather amazing and I see it as perhaps the absolute peak of the value for money for performance curve for a complete new item IMHO.  The problem with people is that if I for example had spent 20+K on an amp as many do, I'd have to continue to spout about how superior it sounded so I didn't feel like a goose when someone finally let me hear their Soraya and I had to realise I hadn't researched too well after all. :scratch:

bluesky

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Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #11 on: 7 Sep 2009, 04:03 am »
Hi Lyn

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.  I have seen amps that cost huge amounts of money, and this was largely for status purposes rather than sonics.  Each amp would cost more than my car, (which is not that hard to do), but the quality of the sonics and, aside from the aesthetics of the fancy panels, everything else was pretty average.  Yes, all the notes were there but there was no soul to the music.  For me it is a bit like being in an art gallery and looking at a picture which makes you yawn while all around you people think up really long words to describe something that is just flat and ultimately boring. 

On the few times I have seen inside such components it was almost laughable to see such poor work and average industrial grade parts etc.  There was no cutting edge design, perhaps a fancy looking power supply, which was standard fare but one had HUGE wires, which were just galvanised car battery wires and connectors to emphasise it's hugeness but it then had only one filter capacitor and things like this are common in what you would think are leading edge designs from the marketing.

I am a DIY type of guy (very, very slow I must admit) but the great advantage of this is that it gives you at least some insights into design, quality of parts and the work involved to achieve the design heights that Hugh has achieved. 

I am comfortable in awarding Hugh the rather grandiose title of "Audio Timelord", or perhaps the audio equivalent of  "Dickens" for his work and his literacy in his communication skills of all things audio, from the technical to his descriptive gems regarding the sonics.

I hope I haven't sounded too pompous in my little rant! :lol:

Ian     

AKSA

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #12 on: 7 Sep 2009, 09:05 am »
Aw, shucks Ian, I won't be able to fit my head through the door!!   :oops:

Lest anyone think I'm too big for my boots, let me relate a gem of frustration I went through this afternoon.

I've built a number of Soraya modules, ready for mounting onto heatsinks.  The operation is fiddly, as all output devices, drivers, associated mica washers and lots of spacers have to be fitted in one operation.  It normally causes some cussing (a delightful word not used in Oz, but elegant and apt), and much gnashing of teeth. 

I'd picked up the negative rail parts, fitted them, and then went to fit the positive rail parts.  Oops, fitted a 5200 instead of a 1943, OK, do it again.......  Then assembled it all, held my mouth just so, matched it up to the heatsink, and screwed it all together.

Wunderbar!!  All complete!

Then hook up to the testbench supply, and set up bias and offset.

No dice.  -40V of offset, couldn't set the bias either.

I spent two hours on this, only to find that I'd inadvertently picked up a defective A1837 driver, with grievous short from base to collector, which was holding the output at the rail (I use a variac to apply voltage gradually at birth, just to be sure nothing self-immolates).

Replaced the driver, reassembled, tidied up biasing and offset, and job done....  nothing damaged, but oh, the angst!!

Morals to remember:

Everything must be assembled at least twice.
All objects on the workbench will inevitably fall to the floor, requiring disciplined late middle-age exercise routines and spectacles ON to retrieve.
Components NOT taken with measured determination from a parts bin are ALWAYS defective.
Bias and offset are never quite what you designed for, or expect.
Faults are always arrived at circuitously, never directly.
Tools required will always be either out of sight, OR out of reach.
Any pleasure at completion is always outgunned by exasperation at how long it took, and how stupid you were during the process.
 

But, Ian, I admit, I'm a big fan of Dr Who, and I WISH I HAD A SONIC SCREWDRIVER (but it would have to be Class AB!!).

Cheers,

Hugh

PS:

KK, I figured you would want maximum resolution, no?  My preferred technique is to warm it up a little with the preamp!





daredevil_kk

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #13 on: 7 Sep 2009, 12:27 pm »
Hi Hugh,

Yup, max resolution pls. :wink: I will warm it up right at the source (DAC). :thumb:

Thanks.

KK

Seano

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #14 on: 8 Sep 2009, 12:05 am »
I would love to have such a relatively cheap amp like the Soyara "Stradivarius MKII" that would blow all this stuff into the weeds and demonstrate what a terribly sophisticated chap I am!

Ian......I once did much the same thing with a 'mere' Aksa 100N+ at 'another forum' GtG.  After listening to some very nice Xindak (very nice), Melody and Shanling amplification technology I gave the room a belt with the Aksa. Source was a Shanling music centre and speakers were the wonderful Aslan Cerys standmounts.

The highly positive reaction was rather personally rewarding.... :icon_lol:

It'd be nice to think that one day I may repeat the experience with a Soraya....but the price of entry (bargain though it may be) is a bridge too far for this simple soul.

AKSA

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #15 on: 8 Sep 2009, 12:30 am »
Ah, Sean,

That is a pity....... :bawl:

At least come to visit me when next in Melbourne!  I really enjoyed my chat with the intellectual from the bush, and you are welcome here any time to hear the latest products!   :duel:

Cheers,

Hugh

bluesky

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Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #16 on: 8 Sep 2009, 01:06 am »
Hi Hugh

I may be so bold to invite myself to chez Dean, my son is joining the army and will be based in Adelaide after the initial training at Pukapunyal with the 16th RAR Air Defence Regiment, his fiance is pregnant and I am determined to be at the birth. 

All of requires means a trip down south which would enable to catch up with some friends, I hope you would not mind me shouting you a cup of coffee and a chat!

Ian

AKSA

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #17 on: 8 Sep 2009, 01:12 am »
Ian,

You will be most welcome, any time - and it will be MOI buying the coffee!!   :lol:

So you will be a grandfather?  Still feeling chipper and spry?   :o

16AD Regt, I remember it well, taught a lot of soldiers from that unit in the seventies!  He will like Adelaide, it is a beautiful city, with a much more reserved nature than the northern cities and lovely architecture.  The city is absolutely filled with churches, some of them very impressive buildings.

Congratulations - no mean achievement!

Hugh

bluesky

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Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #18 on: 8 Sep 2009, 01:42 am »
Hi Hugh

Chipper and spry, yep that's me, I feel far too young to be a grandfather!

As you know I love kids and intend on getting back into the literacy and numeracy tutoring again when a local Aboriginal woman asked me if I would return to school to work with her kids after a chance meeting in a local supermarket.  I just wish I could get paid for this work sometimes........which I could then spend on audio parts and kits.  When I grow up I want a V Sonics kit!

Ian

Seano

Re: 2009 Soraya CB105 Impressions
« Reply #19 on: 8 Sep 2009, 10:35 pm »
That is a pity....... :bawl:

At least come to visit me when next in Melbourne!  I really enjoyed my chat with the intellectual from the bush, and you are welcome here any time to hear the latest products!   :duel:

Pity? Yes.  But no pity required.  A practical decision requires no pity.  Should a new price point be possible into the future then a new practical decision can be made   :scratch:

Besides I'm still saving up for the Lifeforce...

I may take you up on the invite to the Aspen Playpen in the next little while....if only to talk turkey about an LF100.