Current production 12AU7 signal tubes -- Impressions? Opinions?

davidrs · « **on:** 1 Feb 2011, 07:04 pm »

Thanks to some awesome AC members serving as tube educators I've made some progress on the tube rolling front. A Special THANKS and recognition shout out to troutboy and shadowlight.

So far, I've had a taste of NOS: the Raytheons that came with the amp (an Ayon Spirit II), CONNs/RCA Cleartops and Sylvannia.

My question has to do with Current Production 12AU7s

That is: impressions, opinions, thoughts, suggestions from those that have used 12au7s in their circuits.

Realize that I will only know for sure once the tubes are in my circuit, but hope to learn of the pros and cons, characteristics, etc. based on your experiences.

bregez · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 07:18 pm »

The ones I don't like are JJ's. The pins are skinny and the build just seems cheap compared to new production EH's. Sonically, when I compare the JJ's (short plate version) them EH 12AU7A's they seem to be bass heavy and missing some mid range. That just may be my system however. I haven't tried the long plate JJ's but am hoping they are better.

Pez · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 08:11 pm »

Prepare yourself for this thread to turn into another "Buyt the Pavanes!!!!" thread.

they are the best period.

davidrs · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 1 Feb 2011, 08:11 pm

Prepare yourself for this thread to turn into another "Buy the Pavanes!!!!" thread.

You know I'm already sold on the Psvanes. They've been well covered in Hifiman5's thread.

Hoping for opinions on other brands also. bregez's post was helpful (in his case, on why he didn't like the JJs).

Pez, After the Shuguang Psvane 12au7s, what would your second choice be and why? And no "bird" answers!

bregez · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 09:41 pm »

Perhaps we should get a short list together on what new production 12AU7's are available. I will start:

Electro-Harmonix 12AU7
Electro-Harmonix 12AU7 Gold
JJ 12AU7 (short plate)
JJ 12AU7 (Long Plate)
JJ 12AU7 Gold Pin
Genalex Gold Lion 12AU7
Sino 12AX7
JJ Black Sable 12AU7
Pavane 12AU7

Did I forget any?

mfsoa · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 10:03 pm »

I came off as a little lukewarm re the Pavanes in the Pavane 12AU7 thread- I didn't know at the time that one of the pr had a few hrs on it and one only a few minutes.

As much as I think I can hear cable differences, I was never much of a break-in advocate, but it really seems like the Pavanes have opened up really nicely over ~ 100 hrs (I know - break-in on tubes does make more sense than cables etc). I like what I am hearing now, for sure. (In my VAC preamp)

So much info in the midrange, and now extended highs and deep powerful bass, yum.

-Mike

Pez · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Feb 2011, 10:35 pm »

I don't use any 12AU7s, but signal tubes are very similar across types.

I tend to prefer NOS tubes, mullard, amperex. But if you want my opinion on new stock I sorta liked the Penta 12ax7s and some of the sovteks stuff. JJs tend to be rather round sounding and IMO unappealing.

I have tried shuguang, EH, SED, GE RCA and quite a few more. I think if you aren't going Pavane or NOS a distant second would probably be the Pentas.

bregez · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Feb 2011, 06:03 am »

I investigated the pin diameters more with the following results:
EH= 0.0400"
Telefunken= 0.0400"
Amperex= 0.0400"
JJ (Short Plate)= 0.0375"
This may explain why the JJ's fit in the the socket less snug than the others.

davidrs · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Feb 2011, 02:40 am »

Quote from: bregez on 1 Feb 2011, 09:41 pm

Perhaps we should get a short list together on what new production 12AU7's are available. I will start:

Electro-Harmonix 12AU7
Electro-Harmonix 12AU7 Gold
JJ 12AU7 (short plate)
JJ 12AU7 (Long Plate)
JJ 12AU7 Gold Pin
Genalex Gold Lion 12AU7
Sino 12AX7
JJ Black Sable 12AU7
Pavane 12AU7

Did I forget any?

Bregez: Great suggestion.

I'm not a hundred percent on the ones listed below. Correct me, if incorrect.

Svetlana/Sovtek (?)
Tung - Sol (?)
Jan - Phillips (NOS ?)
Golden Dragon
Groove Tube
PM (for guitar mainly, I think)
Ruby
Valve Art
TJ Gold
Plus the many private label branded 12AU7s

Gopher · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Feb 2011, 02:42 am »

I think Create audio makes a 12au7. Their tubes are supposed to be awesome, though expensive.

davidrs · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Feb 2011, 02:45 am »

Quote from: Gopher on 3 Feb 2011, 02:42 am

I think Create audio makes a 12au7. Their tubes are supposed to be awesome, though expensive.

Thanks Gopher. Yes they do. Just checked.

http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_63&products_id=373

hifiman5 · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Feb 2011, 01:24 am »

Sorry for being repetitive, but the Psvane's are it. I have never in 40 years in this obsession,. been more driven to listen than since the Psvane's have been in my system. They are hands down the best tubes I've listened through since my East German RFTs of a couple decades ago.

Gopher · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Feb 2011, 01:28 am »

I want them to be the "best" too, as I own the Pavane, but quite frankly, there are rarely any "bests" in this hobby. I really wanted the Pavane 12au7 to rock my world in my Minimax DAC and tried it both in the DAC's stock form and with extensive modification and, though good, its not great. I know a handful of other people who quietly share their belief as well.

I do NOT have anything against Chinese tubes or equipment. I'm using Black Treasure CV-181-z and 300-z's in my amps along with red label Shuguang 845Bs, I like Shuguang tubes, but the Pavane 12au7s just aren't the open and shut case that its being cast as.

Audioclyde · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Feb 2011, 05:08 am »

I may be a little off topic here, but I have a pair of Pvane 12ax7's that I really, really like. My new amp uses 12au7's--so I bought a pair of Pvane 12au7's for it. The au7's have as many or more hours in them as my 12ax7's have, but the Pvane 12au7's just are not singing for me like the 12ax7's did (of course the 12ax7's were in a different amp).

Guess it just confirms that every circuit is different and of course that just cause you like a certain brand of tube in 1 family, you may not like that brand of tube in a different family and/or circuit.

hibuckhobby · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Feb 2011, 01:55 pm »

Any interest in selling those 12AX7's? I have a Jolida FX10
I'm wanting to experiment with.
Hibuck....

davidrs · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Feb 2011, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: Gopher on 5 Feb 2011, 01:28 am

I want them to be the "best" too, as I own the Pavane, but quite frankly, there are rarely any "bests" in this hobby.

Quote from: Audioclyde on 5 Feb 2011, 05:08 am

Guess it just confirms that every circuit is different and of course that just cause you like a certain brand of tube in 1 family, you may not like that brand of tube in a different family and/or circuit.

Well said and great perspective, Gopher and Audioclyde.

The specific circuit and our own preferences play such an important role.

At this point, I could live with either the Raytheons or the CONNs in the Ayon amp.

However, since the journey and the learning I am being exposed to, is so much fun, I'm also looking forward to trying additional brands / years, including the Psvanes.

- David.

Gopher · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Feb 2011, 05:05 pm »

Not to get off topic tube type wise, but even though the 12au7 isn't doing it for me, when my 845Bs go I would like to try the Pavane 845 power tubes for myself.

bregez · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 May 2011, 02:53 am »

It has been a while, but I have given the JJ's some ample time to burn in, and they still don't do well with either my Hagtech Clarinet or my ST-70 with a diytube driver board. In the Clarinet they sound flat in the midrange and in the ST-70 they sound "fatiguing" (like banging on a tin can for a while). These are the short plate variety, and appear to be well built so I am assuming just a bad match for my system. I compared these to new production EH and some old Telefunkens in addition to some old RCA clear tops. The new production EH have great midrange and high range frequencies but lack in the lower range (<1000Hz) compared to the Telefunkens. The clear tops sound the best in the Hagtech but are very sensitive. I think some shielding may eliminate this. My next step is to buy an additional pair of Electro-Harmonix's and run them both in the power amp and preamp. I am also eager to try some Pvane's in the preamp. If they give me a midrange, high frequency like the EH's and and low range like the Tele's I am sold.

This is just my subjective impression.

SearchOfSub · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Oct 2014, 07:03 am »

I have the Pvane 12au7 T2 and the Pvane 12ax7 T2 and I do not like it at all. There is too much noise. And the tubes simply do not have refinement and resolution. Dissapointed. I took 1x pvane 12au7 out of my integrated amp just now and oh my, so much more refinement with a hint of tube magic. My amp is hybrid integrated amp.

BobM · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Oct 2014, 12:36 pm »

I've tried a lot of both new and NOS 12AU7's in both my preamp and phono stage. No, I haven't tried the Pavane's so I can't speak to them. The best I've found are the Baldwins. Not expensive and just totally balanced and beautiful. Try them if you get a chance.