AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 10 Aug 2017, 09:12 pm

Title: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 10 Aug 2017, 09:12 pm
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20neo2.jpg)

All looks great so far. Now off to measure and test a batch of them to confirm the factory measurements that were taken before they shipped.

More details coming...  :thumb:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: SoCalWJS on 10 Aug 2017, 09:52 pm
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20neo2.jpg)

All looks great so far. Now off to measure and test a batch of them to confirm the factory measurements that were taken before they shipped.

More details coming...  :thumb:
:o

 :beer:

Fingers crossed for good news. It would be wonderful to see these work out.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: S Clark on 10 Aug 2017, 10:00 pm
Very good news.  Can't wait for the measurements.   :thumb:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: mlundy57 on 10 Aug 2017, 10:14 pm
+1  :thumb:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: ebag4 on 10 Aug 2017, 10:43 pm
Very good news.  Can't wait for the measurements.   :thumb:
Me either :thumb: :thumb:

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: bdp24 on 11 Aug 2017, 12:28 am
Danny, any plans for a Neo 8?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: JakeJ on 11 Aug 2017, 01:15 am
Wow!  Good on ya, Danny, I imagine it took some work to get this together.  Fingers crossed they pass the tests.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: sandbagger on 11 Aug 2017, 01:28 am
SWEET
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Aug 2017, 08:35 pm
Okay, I measured a group of them and the measurements looked real good. I think the consistency is a little better than the ones I used to get from BG. And the responses sure look good in the NX-Otica baffle with wave guide that I was measuring them in.

BG made these in two versions. There was a standard version that had five rows of magnets and then a pdr version that only had three rows of magnets and a row of felt filling the two outside rows on both sides. The pdr version had reduced sensitivity due to less motor strength. Also, the added felt on the sides falls under a patent that BG owned. And it is now owned by new owners, Christy Digital.

What I had BG do for me was build a base unit with all five rows of magnets but add the felt to the front side only. This gave the improved off axis response of the pdr version while keeping the higher sensitivity of the base model.

So for the new GR Neo 3 I also had them build these as base models with all five rows of magnets. So sensitivity is kept high.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/gr%20neo3a.jpg)

I had the connectors made from Copper instead of Tin and the film is the yellow colored Kapton instead of Kaladex. Also, the thin felt mounted to the diaphragm is white instead of black. So they are easily identified as the new GR Neo 3.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/gr%20neo4.jpg)

Now if I sell them with felt on the outside rows like the pdr version from BG then I am opening myself up for a patent suit. So they will be sold as seen here and open in all rows, front and back.

However, my testing reveals that a thick black yard feed through the outer rows produces the same effect and response as the felt used in the BG models.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/gr%20neo3b.jpg)

So i can supply the tweeters and the yarn, but you guys will need to install the yarn yourselves. It is quite easy though.

Just wrap a little tape around the end of the yarn so that you can feed it through the outer rows.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/gr%20neo3c.jpg)

Sliding it through with a toothpick is very easy. And then just pull it up and out in the end.

Then just trim off the tape on the end and push the end down into the outer hole using the end of a zip tie.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/gr%20neo3e.jpg)

Then trim the other end off and do the same.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/gr%20neo3f.jpg)

It's pretty easy and just takes a few minutes. Just don't use anything magnetically conductive or the magnets will try and grab it.

And even though these are an improved version of the tweeter I can still come in on the price just under the sales price of the BG Neo 3. So I'll be listing them for $85 each.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: jeffh on 11 Aug 2017, 09:17 pm
This looks great.  Will these increase the sensitivity of your existing designs?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: ebag4 on 11 Aug 2017, 10:28 pm
It sounds like we will have to add a resistor to the tweeter circuit if we are running PDRs currently, is that correct?

So for the new GR Neo 3 I also had them build these as base models with all five rows of magnets. So sensitivity is kept high.

Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Aug 2017, 12:05 am
It sounds like we will have to add a resistor to the tweeter circuit if we are running PDRs currently, is that correct?

Thanks,
Ed

Sensitivity is the same as the custom Neo 3's that were made for Serenity Acoustics.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 12 Aug 2017, 01:57 am
Sensitivity is the same as the custom Neo 3's that were made for Serenity Acoustics.

If subbing these into the netowrk desingned for the  standard Neo 3 PDR,   one may also need to alter the high pass cap value a  bit  (Danny ? )
Been playing around a bit with some MTM's, the Serenity  Neo 3's  and a modded  network I'll report on  one of these days soon, sounding  very good 

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: rollo on 12 Aug 2017, 03:55 pm
Looking real good there Danny.


charles
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 12 Aug 2017, 06:04 pm
Danny, did you try out the diffraction mod that got posted a little while back on these?  If it really does the trick, might be another way to differentiate the GR model  tweeters from the standard BG if you could have them manufacture the needed shape into the front plate?

So... does this mean the neo-10/neo-3 unobtainium line array is back on the table?  :green:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Aug 2017, 06:09 pm
Danny, did you try out the diffraction mod that got posted a little while back on these?  If it really does the trick, might be another way to differentiate the GR model  tweeters from the standard BG if you could have them manufacture the needed shape into the front plate?

I'd like to try those out.

Quote
So... does this mean the neo-10/neo-3 unobtainium line array is back on the table?  :green:

I have tweeters for them and Neo 10's can be picked up through Parts Express. So if someone really wanted to build a pair then I could make it happen. 
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Oscillate on 12 Aug 2017, 08:44 pm
"...the neo-10/neo-3 unobtainium line array..."

Which line array are you refering to? ...OBLS, LS-X?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: DeeJayBump on 12 Aug 2017, 08:56 pm
Line Force arrays--which were completed, tested and ready for production when the Christy Digital acqusition made the drivers unavailable--and (possibly) the Singularity arrays, IIRC.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Aug 2017, 08:58 pm
These:

(http://gr-research.com/pics/616inroom7.jpg)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: mlundy57 on 12 Aug 2017, 09:20 pm
Boy-oh-Boy those were something special. Good thing I'm not the envious type, otherwise I'd have to stop listening to music
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 13 Aug 2017, 12:07 am
Glad to see the new Neo3 style tweeters available.

Hmmm... only need 48 of them for the planar line arrays.  This is tempting!  :D
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: drmike on 13 Aug 2017, 04:51 pm
can these be used in the wedgies?
thanks,
drmike
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 13 Aug 2017, 04:55 pm
can these be used in the wedgies?
thanks,
drmike

Yes.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 13 Aug 2017, 06:22 pm
and  we should have  Wedgie  flat packs  available  soon

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: mlundy57 on 13 Aug 2017, 06:24 pm
Once the yarn is added is the sensitivity still higher or does the yarn bring the sensitivity down to the level of the PDR version?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: SoCalWJS on 13 Aug 2017, 08:08 pm
These:

(http://gr-research.com/pics/616inroom7.jpg)
:drool:

I thought those were some of the coolest looking speakers ever when you first posted those pictures. I was running some rough numbers just for the drivers on the Neo 3/10's and it adds up pretty quick (32 Neo 3's & 16 Neo 10's if I'm counting right). Do you think you would ever turn those into a kit (as far as X-over parts and Plans), or is this just a one-off that may never come to pass? If my ship ever comes in (or when we sell the other house  :green:), I dream of owning/making something like this.

Any impressions on these Speakers in comparison to the Serenity Super 7's or the Mockingbird LS-X's? Could you get away with 2 Servo's per side, or is 3 a better match? (or is it strictly room size and listener preference?). I imagine building the panels requires some fairly advanced skills.

Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: S Clark on 13 Aug 2017, 10:41 pm
:drool:

Any impressions on these Speakers in comparison to the Serenity Super 7's or the Mockingbird LS-X's?
I'm fortunate to have heard all of the above, for several hours at a time.  The Serenity Super 7's were at the top or top 3 (depending on taste) at a RMAF.  The Mockingbird line sources may have been even a bit better.  Those all electrostatic line sources were a clear step up again, and not a small step up.  I have very good speakers.  My LS9's are among the best I've heard on many types of music... but they sounded soooo slow in comparison.  :oops:
Now having said that, I know what I have invested in them ( built them myself), and just the frame of the new prototype exceeded my expense... by a lot.   
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Coldfusion on 13 Aug 2017, 10:56 pm
and  we should have  Wedgie  flat packs  available  soon

jay
:thumb:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: SoCalWJS on 14 Aug 2017, 12:06 am
I'm fortunate to have heard all of the above, for several hours at a time.  The Serenity Super 7's were at the top or top 3 (depending on taste) at a RMAF.  The Mockingbird line sources may have been even a bit better.  Those all electrostatic line sources were a clear step up again, and not a small step up.  I have very good speakers.  My LS9's are among the best I've heard on many types of music... but they sounded soooo slow in comparison.  :oops:
Now having said that, I know what I have invested in them ( built them myself), and just the frame of the new prototype exceeded my expense... by a lot.   
Thanks.

What you say about the Serenity Super 7's and LS-X is kind of how I felt after hearing them at RMAF's (in different years). I'm wondering if the new speakers (Line Force?) start sounding closer to Electrostats and/or Ribbons in the Mid Bass on up to the top end, but with a better dispersion pattern and less issue over power handling and volume.....

I'm afraid that if there is no easy way to make the frames for the Neo's (tough to tell from the photo(s) I've seen), that it requires very advanced skills or CNC. Looks like the feet/legs are a bit of a trick as well, but I think they help make the speaker look so good.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 14 Aug 2017, 12:23 am
If I remember correctly, the N10/N3 array frames are extruded and or machined aluminum - no lumber involved.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: SoCalWJS on 14 Aug 2017, 12:47 am
If I remember correctly, the N10/N3 array frames are extruded and or machined aluminum - no lumber involved.
Just wondering if there is a way to do it differently (easier and cheaper), which might result in a bit less rigid structure, but still get most of the potential out of the design.  :scratch:

 :dunno:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 14 Aug 2017, 01:14 am
Some mor epics here
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=125667.20
Remeber, these were done from aluminum so  there is  substantial expesne.

This is something we've considered  cnc'ing out of  1"  or 1.25" Medex but haven't pursued as there  wren't really tweeters  available.  If there  were interest, it   would be something  we'd  look at 

jay


jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Ric Schultz on 14 Aug 2017, 06:19 am
You don't need an aluminum baffle to make a great line source using Neo 3s and 10s.....check this out:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=icm8ojuu9fpe4n6k814jpbektdcpnkv5&topic=142235.0

This is a four neo 10 line source but you just build it taller and add more drivers.  Three 3/4 inch pieces of highly refined particle board and 16 ply plywood green glued together.....cheap and rigid.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: S Clark on 14 Aug 2017, 12:20 pm
You don't need an aluminum baffle to make a great line source using Neo 3s and 10s.....

This is true.   I have a pair of great line source speakers.  My LS9's are great speakers, and were the best thing Danny had designed... until he created the Serenity 7's, and then the OB line source 9's, which were the best until he designed those aluminum prototypes. And they left everything else behind. 
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: SoCalWJS on 14 Aug 2017, 01:07 pm
You don't need an aluminum baffle to make a great line source using Neo 3s and 10s.....check this out:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=icm8ojuu9fpe4n6k814jpbektdcpnkv5&topic=142235.0

This is a four neo 10 line source but you just build it taller and add more drivers.  Three 3/4 inch pieces of highly refined particle board and 16 ply plywood green glued together.....cheap and rigid.
Thanks - that is closer to what I can see as a possibly realistic goal for the ideas rolling around in the back of my little brain.

That's what I was trying to figure out - if you made it out of MDF, how much performance do you lose as opposed to an Aluminum (or similar) frame. I think that someday I might try to tackle a project similar to the one in your link if it's out of MDF and heavy Ply. I can probably acquire the tools needed for such a project and after a bit of practice, turn out something that looks "OK" (I am no woodworker by any stretch).

I know that, as an example, Magico builds their big speaker frames out of metal to get very high rigidity, and other companies use multiple layers of stacked, CNC cut MDF or Baltic Birch to do the same thing.

Extremely high rigidity is a goal, but how big of a difference is there going to be with MDF?

The good news though is that the Drivers are now going to be available again, and those interested can start dreaming of these big (or smaller) projects again.  :thumb:

*****
PS: Did you ever take any measurements of the speakers in your link?
*****
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 14 Aug 2017, 01:30 pm
I used 1"x 2" oak lumber for the open baffles with 1" x 4" bolted cross strips for spacing at top and bottom for stability.  Added a pine board for the wing with piano hinges.  Added a leg on the other side of the baffle for stability.

If you slot the 1" x 4" oak strips mounting holes, then you have adjustment range for mounting the planar drivers.



Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: cujobob on 14 Aug 2017, 07:49 pm
Please don't use white felt. I feel like it's going to get filthy over time and look really bad. Otherwise, super excited to see these back! Loved the previous designs and I'm sure this will mean good things from GR.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: gregfisk on 14 Aug 2017, 08:19 pm
Please don't use white felt. I feel like it's going to get filthy over time and look really bad. Otherwise, super excited to see these back! Loved the previous designs and I'm sure this will mean good things from GR.

This makes a lot of since, plus black will look so much better too.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 15 Aug 2017, 12:00 am
The reason we went with milled aluminum on that one is for strength. And it allowed us to keep the baffle width really small and keep the drivers really close together. And that is a pretty big deal as well.

And yes it was pricey. But when building a speaker at this level, why not?

When you mill it out of wood then the baffle width increases and there is a lot more added surface reflections.



Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: SoCalWJS on 15 Aug 2017, 01:32 am
The reason we went with milled aluminum on that one is for strength. And it allowed us to keep the baffle width really small and keep the drivers really close together. And that is a pretty big deal as well.

And yes it was pricey. But when building a speaker at this level, why not?

When you mill it out of wood then the baffle width increases and there is a lot more added surface reflections.
Interesting. So the material of the baffle affects the FR that much?

I guess it makes sense in the higher frequencies, but I don't think that had occurred to me (makes sense when I think about it - think of side walls in your listening wall made of the different materials). Is that correct?

Could a coating on the MDF (as opposed to paint) make a difference and reduce the width?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 15 Aug 2017, 01:13 pm
Interesting. So the material of the baffle affects the FR that much?

I guess it makes sense in the higher frequencies, but I don't think that had occurred to me (makes sense when I think about it - think of side walls in your listening wall made of the different materials). Is that correct?

Could a coating on the MDF (as opposed to paint) make a difference and reduce the width?

Yes, it can have a significant effect.

The thickness of the material effects the drivers response too as it loads the drivers slightly and places edges on four sides (mounting through hole) that causes edge diffraction. So 1/2" thick Aluminum has advantages there as well.

Coating the edges with something that will be effective requires some pretty thick felt. It wouldn't be pretty, but would have some effectiveness.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: orientalexpress on 15 Aug 2017, 01:23 pm
Just curious ,how much does 1/2 inches mill aluminium cost for a pair like Denny cost? :D

lap
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: tasar on 15 Aug 2017, 01:32 pm
Let's see the "N" series out with these.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: rollo on 15 Aug 2017, 02:41 pm
  Time to Tweeter up boys. Get those tools out and get a working. :thumb:


charles
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Ric Schultz on 15 Aug 2017, 07:29 pm
As shown on the line source I linked, if you mount the Neos directly on the face of the wood baffle and then cover the entire front with felt then there is no diffraction.  Also in the back (no matter how thick the baffle is) you simply flare out the rear behind the drivers (like a waveguide) and felt this flare and the entire rear panel.....again no diffraction effects.  Cheap and incredible sounding.  When you use a combo of 16 ply plywood and highly refined MDF and use Green glue in between the layers you get a very, very rigid baffle.  Aluminum might give you 5 % more........for thousands of $ more.  Use better xover parts (Clarity cap CMRs with copper foil Jupiter bypasses and use 12 gauge Jantzen wax paper copper foil Inductor on the midrange and 14 or 16 gauge on the tweet and use great wire like Neotech, Vhaudio, etc)......this is where the money should go.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 15 Aug 2017, 07:48 pm
The problem with that is   the front all covered in felt is   butt ugly, who wants to  build a killer set of   speakers  and then felt the front ?
If you   put a round over or chamfer on the rear side, you'll have to widen the baffles to make room  for the featurs.  A 45 degree chamfer will extend "out"  = to the depth it is.
I hadn't realized the aluminum baffles were only .5" thick so going to a   1.25" baffle like I suggested above   is not really a solution.  However, there are some  really cool composites out there, how they compare to aluminum in terms of  strength, resonance resistance, cost etc would have to be determined

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 15 Aug 2017, 08:25 pm
Quote
The problem with that is the front all covered in felt is butt ugly, who wants to  build a killer set of  speakers and then felt the front ?

This is completely correct. No one buying a speaker at this level wants it to look like a DIY project.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: mresseguie on 15 Aug 2017, 10:53 pm
The problem with that is   the front all covered in felt is   butt ugly, who wants to  build a killer set of   speakers  and then felt the front ?
If you   put a round over or chamfer on the rear side, you'll have to widen the baffles to make room  for the featurs.  A 45 degree chamfer will extend "out"  = to the depth it is.
I hadn't realized the aluminum baffles were only .5" thick so going to a   1.25" baffle like I suggested above   is not really a solution.  However, there are some  really cool composites out there, how they compare to aluminum in terms of  strength, resonance resistance, cost etc would have to be determined

jay

Not that I'm a cabinet maker, but would using HDF either alone or in conjunction with another material like MDF or BB accomplish what you seek? I know HDF isn't cheap, but it must be less expensive than aluminum, no?

Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 15 Aug 2017, 11:23 pm
Not that I'm a cabinet maker, but would using HDF either alone or in conjunction with another material like MDF or BB accomplish what you seek? I know HDF isn't cheap, but it must be less expensive than aluminum, no?

Hey Micheal :wave:
Not if   the baffle is  only to be  .5"  thick. But , as mentioned  above, there   are  composites out there that are pretty amazing. The question would really be if  they will compare to aluminum ( I know  one in particular   will)  and  how the cost measures up

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: gregfisk on 16 Aug 2017, 04:38 am
What about using a corian type product which is also .5 inches deep?

It would be way less expensive and if you rough it up a bit it should take paint.

The only problem I see with that is resonance and I know nothing about that but what I do know is that it is very rigid.

Any thoughts?

Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: S Clark on 16 Aug 2017, 06:01 am
One of my students made speakers from Corian.  I remember the sheets were much less rigid than plywood. I suspect that the fine particle in resin nature of it offers little strength length wise. 
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: oz_audio_todd on 16 Aug 2017, 12:17 pm
Sorry guys, I hate to put this tread back on track, but for the ppl in the cheap seats, can someone please explain what is right/ wrong with these new tweeters, that we have to modify them before they can be used??
Do they have to be modified, will they work without, are there f/r or sensitivity issues with or without? (again, so to re-rail the tread..)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 16 Aug 2017, 03:16 pm
Sorry guys, I hate to put this tread back on track, but for the ppl in the cheap seats, can someone please explain what is right/ wrong with these new tweeters, that we have to modify them before they can be used??
Do they have to be modified, will they work without, are there f/r or sensitivity issues with or without? (again, so to re-rail the tread..)

You can run them as is no problem. If you want the improved dispersion that you get by blocking the outer rows (like the BG pdr version) then I have illustrated how to do that at the first of this thread. I can send you the yard and it is real easy to do. But you'll have to do it yourself. I am not going to sell them that way. It could be considered a patent violation if I sold them that way. But when you get them then they are yours, and you can do whatever you want with them including what I illustrated earlier.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: gregfisk on 16 Aug 2017, 03:29 pm
One of my students made speakers from Corian.  I remember the sheets were much less rigid than plywood. I suspect that the fine particle in resin nature of it offers little strength length wise.

This is interesting Scott, I have two sheets of material that is used for shower walls and it is way more rigid than .5" ply. If you hold it at an angle with the short end sitting on the ground you cannot get it to flex at all, it is super stiff. If you hold a 4x8 sheet of .5" plywood the same way it bows toward the ground and is springy. This must be a different type of material than corian but it is definitely very stiff and less money than corian as well.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: jparkhur on 17 Aug 2017, 07:05 pm
Danny. Remind us. How low can the neo3 go ?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: S Clark on 17 Aug 2017, 07:43 pm
This is interesting Scott, I have two sheets of material that is used for shower walls and it is way more rigid than .5" ply. If you hold it at an angle with the short end sitting on the ground you cannot get it to flex at all, it is super stiff. If you hold a 4x8 sheet of .5" plywood the same way it bows toward the ground and is springy. This must be a different type of material than corian but it is definitely very stiff and less money than corian as well.
It's possible that there are several formulations for the stuff.  What I remember was that a local cabinet guy had given the kid several 8' strips about 15" wide that we cut for his bookshelf speaker project. IF my memory is correct, it had more give than 3/4 plywood... and obviously a lot more weight.  Please note the capital IF.  I could easily have this wrong, since it was a good while back. 
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 17 Aug 2017, 08:59 pm
Danny. Remind us. How low can the neo3 go ?

In the BG face plate, and with the deep back cup, I crossed them easily at 1.8kHz.

In the wave guide and in the open baffle I have crossed them as low as 1.2kHz. 
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 26 Aug 2017, 10:57 pm
These can now be ordered online: http://gr-research.com/grneo3.aspx   :thumb:
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: oz_audio_todd on 27 Aug 2017, 10:31 pm
Does that also mean that the N's and OB's are back, or will they require tweaking first?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: jcotner on 27 Aug 2017, 10:39 pm
Does that also mean that the N's and OB's are back, or will they require tweaking first?

They have been back with the BG drivers. I think Danny was buying BG drivers from Parts Express
to sell them.
I was wondering was how Danny was going to handle it going forward. IMHO it might be best
to offer kits with a choice of driver as not everyone will want to do the modification.
At the very least he will have to remove the references to BG if he sells them only with the new
GR drivers. There is also the deep cup and regular Neo as well, so I don't know how that all works out.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 28 Aug 2017, 03:13 pm
Does that also mean that the N's and OB's are back, or will they require tweaking first?

All kits listed on our site are available.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: studley on 31 Aug 2017, 11:03 am
Not that I'm a cabinet maker, but would using HDF either alone or in conjunction with another material like MDF or BB accomplish what you seek? I know HDF isn't cheap, but it must be less expensive than aluminum, no?
Panzerholz would probably be a good alternative, but probably costs as much as aluminium.

In the UK if you search around it's possible to buy Beech plywood.  It's a good bit stronger / more rigid than birch ply.  A CLD baffle made with 2 layers of Beech ply and bonded with green glue might be worth looking at.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Skeeboingen on 15 Sep 2017, 02:23 am
I am curious how you think these would do in an omni-directional set up, like facing upwards toward a cone?

~S
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: mlundy57 on 15 Sep 2017, 04:25 am
I am curious how you think these would do in an omni-directional set up, like facing upwards toward a cone?

~S

That would be the O-3


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168501)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168502)


http://gr-research.com/o-3.aspx

I haven't heard this model but the X series version, the X-Omni, sounds very good.

Mike
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: srb on 15 Sep 2017, 08:25 am
That would be the O-3

I think Skeeboingen is referring to the tweeter facing upwards with into an omni-directional cone reflector?

 (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168503)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Skeeboingen on 15 Sep 2017, 04:02 pm
THAT"S EXACTLY IT!!!  Thanks srb, how does it do?

~S
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 15 Sep 2017, 04:29 pm
I've tried that before and really wanted it to work with some small full range drivers. I even made a omni flare using a woofer cone filled with plaster that set on an aluminum phase plug.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/flare.jpg)

The problem is that short wavelengths don't reflect very well. You also get some compression and throat cancellation. So the response is very week up top and pretty choppy.

It can yield better results and add some room ambiance with nothing over it and with a response limited to the top octave. That way there is no on axis output. 
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Skeeboingen on 15 Sep 2017, 05:06 pm
I'm still in the theoretical stage, I was thinking dipole, but was interested in omni-directional for ambience.  Actually I was looking at dock piling caps for the cone.  What about one of each?  One pointed up, and one dipole?

~S
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 15 Sep 2017, 05:20 pm
I'm still in the theoretical stage, I was thinking dipole, but was interested in omni-directional for ambience.  Actually I was looking at dock piling caps for the cone.  What about one of each?  One pointed up, and one dipole?

~S

It might be a little much to add one to another version that is already in a dipole configuration. It might add a little if the room is over damped.

I experimented with an up firing tweeter on the top of the LGK's.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/bb5.jpg)

It worked out really well and did add a layer of ambiance. However, it only worked really well if the voice coil of the up facing tweeter was aligned with the voice coil of the LGK driver. If it got off a little bit then it tended to be as much of a disruption. I was using a small TB tweeter with a Neo motor and a very small face plate. It sat on top of the box overhanging the front a little. There was just no way to mount it and make it look good. But I did get it to add some positive attributes to the presentations.

Another good application for the up facing tweeter is with larger full range or wide band drivers that drop off in the top octave. And the deeper voice coils of the larger drivers will more easily allow alignment.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Skeeboingen on 15 Sep 2017, 05:52 pm
Sometimes I think I may be trying to re-invent the wheel, forgetting that it will still be round! :duh:

I have a virtual pipe organ, with the speakers sitting on either of me as I play.  They also double as our stereo speakers, so they point out to the room instead of at me, hence my desire for more omni-directional.  Point source is of less importance here than to others, but fidelity is crucial.  Almost everybody that has a rig like mine uses self powered near field monitors, almost always Behringer 2031s with a sub or 2.  Some use as many as 40 front speakers, plus midfield and rear for surround!  I can't afford all that, but I do want good sound, so I appreciate the input.

~S
Title: Line Force Arrays
Post by: studley on 10 Oct 2017, 09:04 pm
Everyone who heard the Line Force Arrays seems to be of the view that they have never heard anything better.  It would be great to give those comments some context, so I wondered if the relevant people would care to say what other top flight speakers they are familiar with but they think were bested by the Line Force Arrays.
Title: Re: Line Force Arrays
Post by: Danny Richie on 10 Oct 2017, 09:35 pm
Everyone who heard the Line Force Arrays seems to be of the view that they have never heard anything better.  It would be great to give those comments some context, so I wondered if the relevant people would care to say what other top flight speakers they are familiar with but they think were bested by the Line Force Arrays.

Probably the strongest testament to that came from long time industry loudspeaker designer Igor Levitski. He designed all of the drivers being used in that speaker as well as many others. He has quite the trained ear and listened to those speaker intently for over an hour. He said the the system was the best that he had ever heard.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137990.0
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: studley on 10 Oct 2017, 10:29 pm
Thanks for that Danny.  Quite a testament!
Title: Re: Line Force Arrays
Post by: SoCalWJS on 11 Oct 2017, 12:16 am
Probably the strongest testament to that came from long time industry loudspeaker designer Igor Levitski. He designed all of the drivers being used in that speaker as well as many others. He has quite the trained ear and listened to those speaker intently for over an hour. He said the the system was the best that he had ever heard.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137990.0
So is there any chance that with the new drivers available, the Line Force Arrays could see the light of day?

I would imagine they would be very expensive with the machined Aluminum.
Title: Re: Line Force Arrays
Post by: Captainhemo on 11 Oct 2017, 03:16 am
So is there any chance that with the new drivers available, the Line Force Arrays could see the light of day?

I would imagine they would be very expensive with the machined Aluminum.

Yeah, IIRC that pair   was around the  $60k  neighborhood with a set of triple 12 OB servo subs.   But  , when  one is looking for that level of  performance,  that price is  relatiely  cheap. 
We looked into doing a couple other designs in  aluminum  as well as  a couple other  materials,  it  does get pretty spendy in a  hurry .

jay
Title: Re: Line Force Arrays
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Oct 2017, 02:51 pm
So is there any chance that with the new drivers available, the Line Force Arrays could see the light of day?

I would imagine they would be very expensive with the machined Aluminum.

They were very expensive to build. But, the Neo 10's are available from Parts Express and I have plenty of tweeters build just like the custom version that was made for Serenity Acoustics. Anybody serious enough about them can have a pair custom built.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: studley on 11 Oct 2017, 03:08 pm
Is CHrisitie Digital now making the Neo 10s or is it just old stock that Parts Exp have?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Oct 2017, 03:37 pm
Is CHrisitie Digital now making the Neo 10s or is it just old stock that Parts Exp have?

I am pretty sure that Christie is supplying Parts Express with new drivers now. They are still being made at Dia-ichi just as they were before.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Oscillate on 11 Oct 2017, 10:27 pm
"Anybody serious enough about them can have a pair custom built

I feel, or at least believe that the frames could be made of something other
than custom milled aluminum? ...that would put them within $ reach :)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Oct 2017, 11:15 pm
"Anybody serious enough about them can have a pair custom built

I feel, or at least believe that the frames could be made of something other
than custom milled aluminum? ...that would put them within $ reach :)

My research didn't yield any better solution.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: corndog71 on 12 Oct 2017, 01:30 pm
Does it have to be open baffle?  Just thinking back inside the box.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Oct 2017, 03:34 pm
Does it have to be open baffle?  Just thinking back inside the box.

No, you can put the tweeters in their own little air space and use them in sealed or ported designs.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: corndog71 on 12 Oct 2017, 07:09 pm
So the question you answered was these speakers can't be recreated with an MDF cabinet.  I guess what I'm asking is could a similar speaker be done but with a solid back cabinet. 

(http://gr-research.com/pics/616inroom7.jpg)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Oct 2017, 07:46 pm
(http://gr-research.com/pics/driver%20holes.jpg)

There is just not enough material there to CNC it out of MDF. The frame would become so weak that it would almost snap under its own weight.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Oct 2017, 07:51 pm
A similar speaker could be built with a sealed back, but it would still really need a baffle made from Aluminum or something just as strong.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: *Scotty* on 12 Oct 2017, 08:03 pm
I wonder if Corian or clone of similar material could be used. If the depth of the thinest portions between the panels was increased maybe there would be enough strength to stay in one piece. Also a series of aerodynamic D shaped supports could be glued across the back like the rungs of a ladder to increase the strength of the panel.
Scotty
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Keithh on 12 Oct 2017, 08:12 pm
Don't know if they still make it, but Appleply used to make a plywood that looks like
Baltic Birch but was much heavier and stiff as a steel plate. Picking up a 3/4" sheet of it
had to be as heavy as 2 sheets of 3/4" MDF. It was the nicest plywood I have ever
worked with.

It was an expensive special order product and the buyer at work said it could be made in any
thickness up to 3". But I have not seen any in years so it might be another great product CARB
regulations killed off.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Oscillate on 12 Oct 2017, 09:35 pm
"...but it would still really need a baffle made from Aluminum or something just as strong."

I understand. What I was thinking was a 1/8" thick front baffle made of aluminum or steel
plate. The remainder of the thickness of the baffle could be of MDF or wood that the metal
plate was fastened onto.

I think a lot of us 'hobbyists' could easily work with 1/8" thick metal plate without special tools.

...come to think of it, you could also sandwich MDF or wood between two metal plates?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Oct 2017, 10:38 pm
Yeah you might be able to figure out ways to sandwich materials, but the real cost is the CNC milling. While the Aluminum is not cheap, it's worth it.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Ric Schultz on 13 Oct 2017, 12:08 am
Again, I will say you do not need aluminum to make a great line source speaker with Neo 10s and 3s.  Look at this thread again:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142235.0

He is using two 3/4 inch pieces of 13 ply birch plywood and a piece of 3/4 inch highly refined particle board with green glue in between all layers.  This is very rigid....is it as rigid as much thinner aluminium?  who knows.  His speaker can be made to look much better with veneering and just a small layer of felt around the front drivers....it would look very good.  You could also round and flare or sculpt the top or bases, etc, etc.  It can look as good as your imagination allows.  He did not care what they looked like (has his own basement) and therefore spent no time on looks.  You can also flare out the backs of the baffle where the drivers are to give the drivers more air to breath and more dispersion....still, I would put felt in those flares to smooth the response and, of course, felt on the wing.

I have no doubt that these speakers sound better than the big ones Danny made with the aluminum baffles because the xover parts and wire and connectors (none) are way more transparent than what Danny uses.  Maybe an aluminum baffle would give you 5 percent better sound?  Certainly the better xover parts, wire and no connectors would give you 20% better sound.

My friend Miguel, who owns the aluminum speaker that Danny had built for him, is ordering better xover parts and wire now and I am sure he will be thrilled with the difference.  The original idea for that line source speaker came from me.  I sold Miguel on the idea and made him a super modded Behringer xover to tri-amp the speakers with.  Miguel decided he wanted an aluminum baffle and tried to find someone to make it for him.  Since he as buying the servo woofs and amps from Danny he called him and they talked and that is when Danny decided to help Miguel with his "dream speaker" and then Danny could then bring out a new model of Serenity speaker based on this proto.  The next speaker up from the "super 7" that Danny had imagined was an over $100,000 monster made from carbon fiber and had a ton of drivers.....see this thread: 
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110891.0

Bottom line is you can make a seriously great (and great looking) line source using Neo drivers using 16 ply birch and highly refined particle board mit green glue.  Even the one shown with 4 Neo 10s is 96 db efficient and kicks butt.  About $3700 for the Neo 10s and 3s for a stereo pair (4 Neo 10s and 12 Neo 3s per side)....add woofs and amps (three servo 12s per side) and xover and wood and felt and veneer and xover parts and wire and you are looking at about $7000 total with everything.  Not cheap but oh my....what sound you would have.  My home made speakers use one Neo 10 and one Neo 3 per side and with great xover parts, felting, wire and no connectors (all on open baffle) it sounds really, really great.  I have no speaker envy.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: ebag4 on 13 Oct 2017, 12:20 am
I have contacted Protech Composites, I am thinking about using carbon fiber panels sandwiching a plywood middle.  Very early, no pricing yet.  It would make sense to price out the aluminum and CNC work to determine what that costs as a reference. 

Concerns for me using something other than aluminum where the drivers are screwed to the baffle are the tight tolerances and the possibility of other materials breaking out where the screws are very close to the interior edge, especially on the small braces between the drivers.

The drivers cost is known, Danny, can you give us an estimate of what the crossover costs would be?

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 13 Oct 2017, 02:20 pm
Ric, While your sandwiched wood frame does hold the drivers it also added surface reflections due to the necessary added width. The added dept also effects the drivers response. And it takes a little more than just throwing more expense into the crossover area to achieve the best sound. More importantly than that is for the crossover to be properly designed. And for these drivers, and used in this way, a first order crossover is simply not adequate for the job. Also a lack of a side wing will cause a peak in the response in the lower range. The side wing shifts it into the range where the Neo 10's are rolling off and extends their response. You might want to keep experimenting with that.

And I wouldn't be so quick to judge how something sounds until you've heard it.

Also, that model was already on the drawing board before I was contacted by Miguel. And I don't recall consulting you on the design. It was actually a variation of an in-wall version that was offered by BG. I even talked with them about doing an open baffle version a couple of years before this project started. So really Igor Levitski (the designer of the drivers) came up with and designed the first speaker to use these drivers in this way.  And my friends Igor and Pablo (owner of Dia-ichi and manufacturer of the drivers) came here to hear what I designed.  So you could say that you know a guy that is friends with the guy that designed these drivers and this speaker configuration.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: orientalexpress on 13 Oct 2017, 02:53 pm
'How much does a pair aluminum  Frame cost?if we're have enough order for a group buy that be awesome  :thumb:
I'm in
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Danny Richie on 13 Oct 2017, 03:44 pm
'How much does a pair aluminum  Frame cost?if we're have enough order for a group buy that be awesome  :thumb:
I'm in

That's a good idea. I need to find a new supplier for them and I have a local company that I have worked with in the past that did a great job with CNC Aluminum milling. Let me see what I can do.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Keithh on 13 Oct 2017, 04:08 pm
Is there any reason that frame needs to be made by CNC?

CNC is the way to go if there big demand, but they also could be milled manually, cast, welded or glued up with adhesives.
Adhesives could be a great DIY way as the precut strips and pieces of aluminum would be fairly inexpensive.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Ric Schultz on 13 Oct 2017, 07:39 pm
Ric, While your sandwiched wood frame does hold the drivers it also added surface reflections due to the necessary added width. The added dept also effects the drivers response. And it takes a little more than just throwing more expense into the crossover area to achieve the best sound. More importantly than that is for the crossover to be properly designed. And for these drivers, and used in this way, a first order crossover is simply not adequate for the job. Also a lack of a side wing will cause a peak in the response in the lower range. The side wing shifts it into the range where the Neo 10's are rolling off and extends their response. You might want to keep experimenting with that.

And I wouldn't be so quick to judge how something sounds until you've heard it.

Also, that model was already on the drawing board before I was contacted by Miguel. And I don't recall consulting you on the design. It was actually a variation of an in-wall version that was offered by BG. I even talked with them about doing an open baffle version a couple of years before this project started. So really Igor Levitski (the designer of the drivers) came up with and designed the first speaker to use these drivers in this way.  And my friends Igor and Pablo (owner of Dia-ichi and manufacturer of the drivers) came here to hear what I designed.  So you could say that you know a guy that is friends with the guy that designed these drivers and this speaker configuration.

Using felt on the front gets rid of surface reflections and the xover I designed for Harold's speaker was not 6db per octave....it is 12db per octave.  And his speaker has a wing on it.  Where did you get the information that it does not have a wing and that it is 6db per octave?  The thread clearly shows the wing and the 12 db per octave xover.  My own speaker using one Neo 10 does not have a wing.....but it is flat to 300hz and works perfectly with two of your M165X woofers per side.  My xover between the Neo 10 and Neo 3 is also 12 db per octave.
Title: Line force questions
Post by: studley on 14 Oct 2017, 09:59 am
Danny
What's their sensitivity and what does the impedance curve look like?

Also, how far off the floor does the bottom edge of the lowest Neo 10 driver need to be?  Just thinking about floor bounce and overall height.
Title: Re: Line force questions
Post by: Danny Richie on 14 Oct 2017, 06:04 pm
Danny
What's their sensitivity and what does the impedance curve look like?

Also, how far off the floor does the bottom edge of the lowest Neo 10 driver need to be?  Just thinking about floor bounce and overall height.

Sensitivity was 97db.

It is a pretty flat impedance with a minimal drop of 3.9 ohms.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/6-16%20impedance.jpg)

And I think I had the first Neo 10 starting about 8" off the floor. It could a little higher though. In the range that they cover the floor distance won't have a lot of effect.
Title: Re: Line force questions
Post by: studley on 14 Oct 2017, 06:12 pm
Sensitivity was 97db.

It is a pretty flat impedance with a minimal drop of 3.9 ohms.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/6-16%20impedance.jpg)

And I think I had the first Neo 10 starting about 8" off the floor. It could a little higher though. In the range that they cover the floor distance won't have a lot of effect.

Nice easy load
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Skeeboingen on 17 Oct 2017, 11:07 pm
Is there any reason that frame needs to be made by CNC?

CNC is the way to go if there big demand, but they also could be milled manually, cast, welded or glued up with adhesives.
Adhesives could be a great DIY way as the precut strips and pieces of aluminum would be fairly inexpensive.

I wondered this as well.  Hardware stores like Home Depot and Lowes sell angled and flat pieces of aluminum that could be screwed and glued together.  Why wouldn't this work?

~S
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 18 Oct 2017, 07:50 pm
GR Neo3's are here!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170051)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 18 Oct 2017, 08:06 pm
I think you'll like them Rich, been listeg for a  bit now in the NX-tremes up at don's place.
Have a local customer who's also been listening to them in a pair of NX-MTm's and   he seems to be  very  pleased as well    :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: gaelen5 on 21 Oct 2017, 01:46 am
I think you'll like them Rich, been listeg for a  bit now in the NX-tremes up at don's place.
Have a local customer who's also been listening to them in a pair of NX-MTm's and   he seems to be  very  pleased as well    :thumb:

jay

True story! I've heard the old ones, but obviously haven't compared them back to back, so all I can say is that they're amazing. I've ended up listening at louder volumes that I normally would and it never thought anything sounded harsh, nor that I was approaching their limits.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 21 Oct 2017, 02:16 am
Jay,
Have the original GR Neo3-PDR tweeters in my N2X and Open Baffle three way with the Neo10's.  Love the way they sound.

Just getting them working with the latest version of the GR Neo3 drivers.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: tosob on 22 Oct 2017, 11:12 pm
You could use Okoume Plywood. It comes in thicknesses from 3/8 to 1 inch. It primary use is in boat building. It is very strong some is made to have no voids. If you fiberglass and epoxy it it is very strong and durable. I built a boat out of this, It is a tank. The  decks are out of 3/8, fiberglased and epoxied. I can walk all over them.

Marty
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Oct 2017, 04:38 pm
Jay,
Have the original GR Neo3-PDR tweeters in my N2X and Open Baffle three way with the Neo10's.  Love the way they sound.

Just getting them working with the latest version of the GR Neo3 drivers.

Well the new tweeters (GR Neo 3)  are  more like the custom Serenity   units.  No damping on the rear side, higher sensitvity,  and a couple other    things.   they a sound great   :thumb:

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 23 Oct 2017, 07:40 pm
Jay,
If I remember, the GR Neo3-PDR were the ones in the Serenity speakers.  Those are what I started with in my OB 3-way, before BG sold.
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: Captainhemo on 23 Oct 2017, 07:49 pm
Jay,
If I remember, the GR Neo3-PDR were the ones in the Serenity speakers.  Those are what I started with in my OB 3-way, before BG sold.

Ahhh, got ya ,  I was thining you  meant the   standard PDr GR deep  cup version with the cup removed.  So yeah,   very similar to the  Serenity version,  just a different ribbon  material  I think

jay
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: gstew on 21 Nov 2017, 07:25 pm
As shown on the line source I linked, if you mount the Neos directly on the face of the wood baffle and then cover the entire front with felt then there is no diffraction.  Also in the back (no matter how thick the baffle is) you simply flare out the rear behind the drivers (like a waveguide) and felt this flare and the entire rear panel.....again no diffraction effects.  Cheap and incredible sounding.  When you use a combo of 16 ply plywood and highly refined MDF and use Green glue in between the layers you get a very, very rigid baffle.  Aluminum might give you 5 % more........for thousands of $ more.  Use better xover parts (Clarity cap CMRs with copper foil Jupiter bypasses and use 12 gauge Jantzen wax paper copper foil Inductor on the midrange and 14 or 16 gauge on the tweet and use great wire like Neotech, Vhaudio, etc)......this is where the money should go.

Ric,

You've got me excited about upgrading my speakers' crossovers as above. A couple of questions... first, what size Jupiter copper foil caps should I use as bypasses to the Clarity CMRs? Second, where's a good source for the Jantzen wax paper copper foil inductors? I need 2.5mH & 4.7mH in the 12 gauge and 1mH and 1.5mH in the 14 gauge.

TIA!

Greg in Mississippi
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 21 Nov 2017, 07:40 pm
Here is the GR Neo3 with the yarn installed with the BG Neo10.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171658)
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: corndog71 on 22 Nov 2017, 03:26 pm
Those look cool.  How do they sound?  Open Baffle?
Title: Re: New GR Neo 3 tweeters are here.
Post by: HAL on 22 Nov 2017, 03:29 pm
Yes, still in work as the servo sub flat packs just arrived and have to be built.   With the old 3x8" servo setup, I liked them a lot.  Will see how the moded GR Neo3's do once I can get it setup with the dspMusikLCD digital crossover and triamped.