AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Low Wattage Systems => Topic started by: Freo-1 on 5 Apr 2012, 11:29 pm
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Hello, and welcome one and all to the Low Wattage Circle.
This circle is for those of us who enjoy listening to our favorite music through systems which employ low wattage power amplifiers, along with speakers that work well with them.
Along with all applicable Audio Circle rules and guidelines, the following basic guidelines are provided as follows:
1. The power amps mentioned here should be of a low wattage output. For the purposes of this circle, a general rule of thumb would be a rated output of 25 watts (at 8 ohms) or less.
2. All amplifier topologies are welcome (tube, solid state).
3. Speakers need to be of sufficient sensitivity/efficiency to allow playback at moderate to loud listening levels.
So as to keep the conversations going in a positive direction, a couple of points worth mentioning:
1. Stay clear of referring to double blind testing arguments. They never end well, and will not enhance anyone’s knowledge.
2. Please keep differences of opinion/disagreements at a non personal level. If you have a strong preference for a given amp topology/source component, etc, feel free to express those views (and why you feel that way). Just respect the fact that others may not share that view. So, when getting into animated discussions about these differences, be careful not to cross the line into personal attacks.
The intent of this circle is to have fun with this, learn more about this topic from one another, and most importantly, enjoy the music!
As Paul Klipsch adroitly stated: “What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier”.
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Sounds good :thumb:
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Though I don't own an amp that qualifies (my lowest watter is a 40 watt Quicksilver GLA) I look forward to reading the posts in this new circle and learning a thang or two! I'm particularly interested in the interactions between super low-wattage amps and various speaker designs.
Congrats Freo!
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Would this circle include systems whose speakers are bi or multi amped? For instance my V-1s use high power amps for the bass section from 200 Hz and down, however I use a 3.5 Watt 2A3 amp for the coaxes from 200 Hz and up.
Congrats on the new circle, sounds like a great idea.
Best,
Ed
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Cool idea , thanks. I guess I qualify with an 18W SET pair of mono blocks. Using an RCA or GE 211. They were Consonance Cyber 211s before every internal part was changed. New everything from trannies to resistors , choke regulated power supply, oh my!
Started with SS to push pull to SET. No turning back for me.
charles
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How does the pre-amp play in the equation, or does it matter?
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How does the pre-amp play in the equation, or does it matter?
as long as it is less than 25wpc, you should be good! :lol:
doug s.
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Great circle! I'm looking forward to sharing my system(s) and discussing both the macro and micro details associated with the concept of low wattage systems! 2A3 SET and open baffle is my poison!
John
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Great responses, everyone. Happy to see the enthusiasm.
By the way, if one is using low wattage for some or all of the audio spectrum, then this is the place to discuss that. We all may learn something there.
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I can remember when 40 wpc systems were considered HIGH power. :)
Good circle.
Dave.
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I run a JAS Audio Bravo 2.3 SE 18wpc class A Single Ended intergrated tube amplifier powered by Russian Military 6C33-B triodes using Circa 1950's NOS Sylvania JAN Mil Spec 6SJ7 WGT pentodes and a pair of Circa 1944 NOS RCA coke bottle 5U4 rectifiers. i drive a pair of Silverline Audio Sonata III's with this amplifier and i love the way it sounds :drool:
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Congrats, Freo! Thanks, JohnR!
I look forward to reading, and learning, a lot! :beer:
Have fun,
Jerry
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GR research servo subs / AE TD 12M's / Radian 745 1.4 CD ,cherry waveguide/ Fountek 3.5 Ribbon . All enclosures sand filled sealed low Q---96 db system powered by 8wt SET 300B's ----SUBs use SS servo plate amps I assume subs will be excluded from power limits.?? Low watt SET not having to do low bass is a good thing IMHO
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60877)
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GR research servo subs / AE TD 12M's / Radian 745 1.4 CD ,cherry waveguide/ Fountek 3.5 Ribbon . All enclosures sand filled sealed low Q---96 db system powered by 8wt SET 300B's ----SUBs use SS servo plate amps I assume subs will be excluded from power limits.?? Low watt SET not having to do low bass is a good thing IMHO
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60877)
Very nice! Love the finish on the cabs!
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Hey!
Look like I will fit in this circle pretty nicely :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
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Hey!
Look like I will fit in this circle pretty nicely :lol:
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Welcome, Buddy!
Looking forward to your keen insight.
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Congrats on the new circle. I will be reading with keen interest. :thumb:
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I can remember when 40 wpc systems were considered HIGH power. :)
My high power amp is usually running 20W (but i can flip it into pentode for 40W). My SE amp is 4W, (slowly) working on one that will be less.
dave
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Hello
My 300B SET amp's for the treble & midrange sections for my active speaker will be allowed in this part of the forum :D but not the bass amps being 40watters :cry: .
Cheers
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PS: Nice speakers.
Vertical biamping for the subs is obviously a good idea.
I like your suspended supertweeter!
Is that the Fountek NeoCD3.5H..?
How do you have it filtered and what do you think of its sound?
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Having recently jumped from 3wpc to 8, I feel I could be in the wrong circle!!
Looking forward to some interesting discussions!
Best
don
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Tri-amping with single ended amps, electronic crossover
Bass: Sep amp 6550, BLR Horn 10"
Midrange: Set amp, 300B, Wood Round tractrix Horn 650 Hz ,1" compression driver
HF: Set amp 71A, Wood Round tractrix Horn 1" compression driver
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64279)
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Well I have an F5, which is a little over the limit. but other than that, I have a 300B SET, at about 8W, a 2A3, 3W, a couple of 6V6 P-P and SE and my favorite a Shunt regulated 45 SET, with Magnequest Iron for a glorious watt and a half...John
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Finally read the Low Wattage guidelines and am surprised at the 25 watt limit (to "work well" and sound "moderately loud").
Grandma says anything over 75 dB is loud, so I'm not sure what the guideline really means, but don't want to get into an endless debate over it either. And 25 watt limit opens the door to most tube amps, including virtually every push-pull amp in triode mode.
Anyway, my system does/doesn't qualify. Just picked up a new tube amp (review forthcoming) that qualifies in triode mode and sounds fine with my "babies" (promise to post something on them in the speaker thread) and in fact haven't cranked it up all the way to see how loud it does get. OTOH I have 100 watt digital mono blocks that also sound good (as good as depending on the tubes used). Used to have a 7 wpc battery powered tripath that worked well, sounded moderately loud, and kicked some SET butt in terms of handling my speakers.
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Finally read the Low Wattage guidelines and am surprised at the 25 watt limit (to "work well" and sound "moderately loud").
Grandma says anything over 75 dB is loud, so I'm not sure what the guideline really means, but don't want to get into an endless debate over it either. And 25 watt limit opens the door to most tube amps, including virtually every push-pull amp in triode mode.
Anyway, my system does/doesn't qualify. Just picked up a new tube amp (review forthcoming) that qualifies in triode mode and sounds fine with my "babies" (promise to post something on them in the speaker thread) and in fact haven't cranked it up all the way to see how loud it does get. OTOH I have 100 watt digital mono blocks that also sound good (as good as depending on the tubes used). Used to have a 7 wpc battery powered tripath that worked well, sounded moderately loud, and kicked some SET butt in terms of handling my speakers.
The guidelines were written to encompass and include products like the First Watt line of amps. I consider all of the First Watt products (and other products like them) to technically qualify as low(er) wattage. There are a lot of speakers that are 89 db/w and above (not quite high efficiency) that could benefit from use of a Class A type amp (tube or SS). The idea was to be more inclusive, and not limit to flea powered SE amps (although some of those DO sound magical with the right speakers).
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My current thinking regarding wattage has more to do with questioning whether output impedance is more the limiting factor with flea amps then wattage. I have used a lot of low watt amps and am surprised by how loud I can play in my apartment on <20 watts. However the amps that have high Zout sound more coloured then the others. Often they go hand in hand but don't have to.
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Deleted. Posted in wrong area.
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Gee, I could easily make a 25W/Ch version of our SET 120 amp and do it for about $499.
It would be unbreakable as the output transistors would be working at a tiny fraction of their capability.
Fully regulated power supplies and dead silent.
Anyone interested?
Frank Van Alstine
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Gee, I could easily make a 25W/Ch version of our SET 120 amp and do it for about $499.
It would be unbreakable as the output transistors would be working at a tiny fraction of their capability.
Fully regulated power supplies and dead silent.
Anyone interested?
Frank Van Alstine
Frank,
Would it be Class A?
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Enjoying the pleasure of Lamm ML2.2 set mono blocks at 18W driving 105db Rethm Saadhana speakers. Digital front end is Aqua Formula xHd DAC and Aqua vida transport. Preamp Lamm L2.1 Reference. Come on over.
charles
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Yes, I could bias a SET 50 on full Class A if somebody wanted that.
Frank
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The SET 50 is a 25wpc, Class A, SET amp? For $499? You should sell a few of them. They go head to head with a Firstwatt F2, and that amp is on the short list of a lot of listeners. A number of Omega speaker guys would likely be interested at the lower price of entry.
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Yes, I could bias a SET 50 on full Class A if somebody wanted that.
Frank
Oh really a nice project, I would add a big laminated power transformer(not Toroidal) and dual volume control to CD player direct.