AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: zybar on 4 Jun 2016, 12:25 am
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They arrived this afternoon but I had to wait to get them downstairs into the music room.
I just started playing music through them, so it will be a bit before I comment on how they sound.
Fit and finish is excellent and I really like the way the white POPS!!
Packing was super professional and it was very easy to get them out of the box and up and running. :thumb: :thumb:
Stay tuned...
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144187)
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George, speakers and room look great.
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if they sound as good as they look...
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if they sound as good as they look...
Even better :thumb:
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Even better :thumb:
For sure! :thumb:
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Hi George,
may we know more about your set up.
Like amplifier, I think I saw some bass traps, etc...
By the way, I like white and in this case they are really beautiful.
Guy 13
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Congrats!! What amp are u running with them?
Enjoy!
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I'm guessing they are 5 - 6 feet apart and about the same distance or a little more from the front wall. Tells us a little more about the setup...
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Guys,
Right now, I just have them plopped down as they need some hours to break in before I can start some serious listening.
The room is 21'10" x 12'10" x 8' and has a good amount of bass absorption and defraction from RealTraps and GIK.
I have two dedicated 20 amp lines (one in the back and one in the front of the room) that all equipment is plugged into.
A little about my gear:
Atsah NC 1200 amps
Vinnie Rossi LIO with AVC/Tubestage, DSD DAC, and Power Option for Sonore microRendu
Sonore microRendu
George
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I'm guessing they are 5 - 6 feet apart and about the same distance or a little more from the front wall. Tells us a little more about the setup...
They are actually 8' apart (center to center), 7'6" from the front wall, and about 10'3" from my ears.
Once I get some time on them, I will start the process of proper placement.
George
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Those are beautiful speakers! I would love to hear OB's some day.
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I have been playing the speakers for a little over 72 hours straight and they are sounding good enough that I am starting to evaluate their sound and performance.
I have a 60+ test song list that I have started to go through and will post some thoughts soon.
Spoiler Alert:
They are special and will not be going back to Utah.
George
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Cool to see "out in the real world", they look good in there.
Looking forward to the coming comments as they break in. I know that you have owned a bunch of different gear over the years I have hung around here, so interested to see what you think and any comparisons you might share.
Good stuff!
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Cool to see "out in the real world", they look good in there.
Looking forward to the coming comments as they break in. I know that you have owned a bunch of different gear over the years I have hung around here, so interested to see what you think and any comparisons you might share.
Good stuff!
I will be comparing them to a speaker in their budget range (Salk Song Towers) and a speaker about 6x in cost (Vandersteen 5A's).
George
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George, did you sell your Vandersteen's for the M-3's?
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George
I ordered my M3 Turbo S's just to see how they sounded as I had a friend that had the Lumina Statement at one point. After about 3 weeks and 250 hours it was determined that mine weren't going back either. Probably well over 400 hours on them now. I have even turned the ACI Force XL subs off.
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George, did you sell your Vandersteen's for the M-3's?
No...
At least not yet. :lol:
George
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George, looking forward to hearing more on your thoughts comparing these to the other speakers you mentioned. I'm plan on trying the M3 Turbo S's but won't have a solid 60 days home until October. I emailed Clayton and one thing he said is they are heavily back ordered at the moment so October would be better for them as well.
Jeff
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I emailed Clayton and one thing he said is they are heavily back ordered at the moment so October would be better for them as well.
Jeff
Can't say I'm surprised! They're a HUGE bargain IMO! :thumb:
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George, looking forward to hearing more on your thoughts comparing these to the other speakers you mentioned. I'm plan on trying the M3 Turbo S's but won't have a solid 60 days home until October. I emailed Clayton and one thing he said is they are heavily back ordered at the moment so October would be better for them as well.
Jeff
As Jason stated they are an HUGE bargain!!
At this point, I have them broken in and have been playing around with placement in order to optimize their performance (still a work in progress).
That said, I honestly can't find anything that the M3 Turbo S speakers can't do well.
They do exceedingly well at the following:
Imaging - is precise and accurate
Soundstage - is deep, wide, and holographic, while having the proper scale based on the music playing
Texture and Tone - is spot on (especially when I upgraded to the LIO DHT module) and can make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up - totally uncolored and allows me to easily hear cable, amp, and tube changes
Speed and Accuracy - these are fast and detailed, with a leading edge that is sharp and musical - yet seems to hang there forever
Highs - are crystal clear and extended - without a hint of grain or glare (after they break in)
Midrange - from guitar to vocals, it is uncanny in terms of providing a real and "you are there" presentation - I love the way it just pulls me into the music
Bass - thunderous, textured, nuanced, fast - no bloat or overhang
Play them loud or soft - they sound great from 75db to 105db and everything in between
They do all of the above with a 25 watt amp inside the Vinnie Rossi LIO or 400 watt mono blocks (Acoustic Imagery Atsah NC 1200's).
A few notes on placement - while I don't have the final location yet, the speakers have sounded very good to great in a wide variety of locations. They have been between 48-90" from the front wall and 12-36" from the side wall in my room. I have also varied between somewhat near field and far field listening. While both sound great, I prefer the far field approach with the speakers aimed at my outside shoulders.
If I sound like a 16 year old boy who just discovered girls after a first kiss - it's because the M3 Turbo S speakers are that good!!
To wrap things up...right now I am getting the best sound I have ever heard in my room.
Kudos to Clayton for having the Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S speakers play such a large role in me achieving that.
Highly, highly, recommended and well worth the wait.
George
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Thanks for that feedback, nicely written and covers everything. The positives are what I was hoping for and to some degree expecting based on other comments/reviews. One question George, when you say the best sound in your room, have you had the Vandersteen 5A's in there? This room is different than the one in your system profile showing those.
Jeff
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Thanks for that feedback, nicely written and covers everything. The positives are what I was hoping for and to some degree expecting based on other comments/reviews. One question George, when you say the best sound in your room, have you had the Vandersteen 5A's in there? This room is different than the one in your system profile showing those.
Jeff
Jeff,
I have had my Vandy 5A's in this room, but not with the other gear I am using right now with the M3 Turbo S.
I am in the process of having both sub amps replaced in the 5A's, so it will be a bit before I can do a direct comparison.
George
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Very well said George!
Can I say I told ya so? :lol:
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Kudos to Clayton for having the Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S speakers play such a large role in me achieving that.
Highly, highly, recommended and well worth the wait.
The M3 Turbo S's are a killer bargain for sure! Nice summary about them, George! 8)
Vinnie
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The M3 Turbo S's are a killer bargain for sure! Nice summary about them, George! 8)
Vinnie
Vinnie,
Your LIO is certainly the other major contributor to my awesome sound! :thumb: :thumb:
George
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Congratulations George! The LIO/Spatial magic is undeniable. So glad you're digging it.
David
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Vinnie,
Your LIO is certainly the other major contributor to my awesome sound! :thumb: :thumb:
George
Thank you - it is a great pairing as you guys have found out and I'm glad I learned about it as well.
When Clayton catches up (and when I catch up as well!), I will be calling him for a pair of my own!
George's system sounded really good!
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Playing now through my Vinnie Rossi LIO and Spatial M3 Turbo S'. Freakin' Awesome!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145690)
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Playing now through my Vinnie Rossi LIO and Spatial M3 Turbo S'. Freakin' Awesome!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=145690)
That is one of my test tracks!!
George
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That is one of my test tracks!!
George
Nice.
Vinnie knows how I roll. :green:
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Nice.
Vinnie knows how I roll. :green:
RR brings back memories of 9th grade - great album! :thumb:
Jason had an awesome after-hours playlist of music at AXPONA in the Spatial room. Tori Candlebox, RR, Sarah B.,
Bon Jovi, Ottmar, and others. Some were live cuts that sounded very big and real. :drums: :guitar: :rock:
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RR brings back memories of 9th grade - great album! :thumb:
Jason had an awesome after-hours playlist of music at AXPONA in the Spatial room. Tori Candlebox, RR, Sarah B.,
Bon Jovi, Ottmar, and others. Some were live cuts that sounded very big and real. :drums: :guitar: :rock:
Jason is the ultimate DJ. He plays REAL music, not just the usual solo female with guitar so prevalent at these so called "shows." If the system can't slam, play at near LIVE levels and pull you in with the detail, it's a definite pass for me. The usual music that is played at these shows will make any system sound good including boom boxes ...
Jason's selections separates the boys from the men. I've heard many systems just fall apart playing his selections :icon_twisted:
Best,
Anand.
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Delighted to hear that you are enjoying them so much! :thumb:
I still get great pleasure from my M4's - they're wonderful, too.
Enjoy!
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Updated system picture is below.
I moved the LIO (with DHT, DAC, Input/Output, and Amp modules) to the front of the room.
The LIO is plugged into an UberBuss, which is plugged into a dedicated 20 amp line.
Later this weekend, I will be inserting my mono blocks back into the system and also continuing to play with speaker placement.
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146092)
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Updated system picture is below.
I moved the LIO (with DHT, DAC, Input/Output, and Amp modules) to the front of the room.
The LIO is plugged into an UberBuss, which is plugged into a dedicated 20 amp line.
Later this weekend, I will be inserting my mono blocks back into the system and also continuing to play with speaker placement.
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146092)
Such a beautiful setup!
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Really nice room! Wish mine was that wide. I hope to have M3 Turbo S in here this fall to compare to the current setup. Also planning on a Dennis Had Insire tube amp to use with them.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146102)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146103)
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Thanks for the comments.
Which Maggies are those?
My room isn't that wide...it is 21'10" x 12'10" x 8'
George
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Really nice room! Wish mine was that wide. I hope to have M3 Turbo S in here this fall to compare to the current setup. Also planning on a Dennis Had Insire tube amp to use with them.
You might as well pack those Maggie's up now. The M3's have everything and then some of what Maggie's have. Just imagine if the Maggie's had hard hitting slam at any SPL...and more! Oh, and the CD design benefit of the M3's will lend itself to a non "perfect" room.
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Updated system picture is below.
I moved the LIO (with DHT, DAC, Input/Output, and Amp modules) to the front of the room.
The LIO is plugged into an UberBuss, which is plugged into a dedicated 20 amp line.
Later this weekend, I will be inserting my mono blocks back into the system and also continuing to play with speaker placement.
George
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146092)
Are these M3 white with grey cloth/grill or it is black, but appears grey in the picture?
M3s really make a lot of itching, very, very tempting.
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Do the M3s come with the two silver feet as shown in your photos as an option? I've saw them a few weeks ago at the Newport show w/no feet, just the 'T' support sitting on the ground?
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Wow George your room looks wider than 12' 10". Guess because the M3s are 17" wide vs. 24" wide for the MG-3.7i in my room, which starts out at 10' 11" wide at the front. Where the equip rack is it gets wider to the left making it 13' 9" wide, then farther back about in the center of the room gets a little wider to the right making it 15' wide. A little over 19' long with an 8' ceiling.
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You might as well pack those Maggie's up now. The M3's have everything and then some of what Maggie's have. Just imagine if the Maggie's had hard hitting slam at any SPL...and more! Oh, and the CD design benefit of the M3's will lend itself to a non "perfect" room.
jt if you are right I will be thrilled. Getting really good sound now, but to my ears only when when played pretty loud (85 dB and more). They also have a really tall soundstage.
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jt if you are right I will be thrilled. Getting really good sound now, but to my ears only when when played pretty loud (85 dB and more). They also have a really tall soundstage.
I'd guarantee it but Clayton Shaw of Spatial already does. :lol: When I had my ML's they did the same thing. Totally unrealistic IMO.
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Yes and Yes. Clayton very confidently told me Spatials sound better, and sometimes I agree the tall soundstage is unrealistic.
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Yes and Yes. Clayton very confidently told me Spatials sound better, and sometimes I agree the tall soundstage is unrealistic.
Well, as a paying customer I agree with him. ;)
Get a Vinnie Rossi LIO while you're at it too. :lol:
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I must agree. I've posted about this elsewhere but I have to say my Spatial M4's plus LIO Integrated are producing the best sounds I've ever heard in my home, and I've been at this for decades. If you don't have the extra $ there's no need to go to the full DHT upgrade. The basic LIO with MOSFET amp and AVC volume control (pass on the RVC) will get you there in style.
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I sense something, a presence I've not felt since...
Jeff
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Greetings!
I've been reading the posts on the site for some time. I was recently looking for reviews on the Spatial M3 Turbo S and found several threads via AudioCircle, particularly this one that caused me to join. Here's why. Many of us either are or have been on the merry go round search for the Holy Grail of two channel audio. I've been struggling to be happy with my speakers for some time. I currently own a pair of Klipsch Cornwall III's that I'm driving with a Decware Torii Mk. IV, sourced from an Oppo BDP-105. The Cornwall's are for the most part okay. The problem is that I hear a bit of fatiguing harshness in the mid-range which is really bad on older recordings; and not quite the bottom end I would like across the board. I'm having a custom Pre or line stage built for the system and and while talking with the builder regarding my desire for a bit better speaker, he suggested I check into the Spatial's. After reading everything I could find on the Spatial's, and then emailing Mr. Shaw, I decided to order a pair. I mean, how could I go wrong with the return policy? I'll be able to audition them side by side with the CWIII's. Until they arrive (guessing several weeks) I was wondering if I could pick the brains of current M3 or M4 owners.
To begin with, is placement with the M3 generally in line with the M4? (i've seen quite a bit on this.) And I have read opinions for the M3 that varies from 18 inches out from the back wall to 6 ft. out. I don't have 6 ft to play with. But I can do up to 40 inches. (I call this an aesthetic because I'm married thing. And because she let's me ride this merry go round with never a complaint, I'm okay with this.)
In case you're wondering, my current listening room is 23 X 17 X 8. The speakers will be centered on the long wall on either side of a large bay window. If you're facing the speakers, there is a 4x4 cut out for the front entryway. (Bay window and cut out not included in the dimensions.) and there is a 32 inch open door frame on the right rear side wall.
I've really enjoyed your thoughts and opinions to this point; and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and advice now.
Jim
Any opinions on placement out from the front walls in this room? And will the entry and door frame be a major detriment?
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Regarding the design of these two models and more specifically relating to the M4 (which has less bass extension), is there a negative effect associated with running a conventional sealed sub to augment the low bass? Since the quality of OB bass is said to be unique due to the absence of an enclosure, is this quality compromised in anyway by supplementation with an external sub (ie defeating the purpose of the OB design re: bass response)?
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I have owned Cornwalls and have a pair of M3 Turbo S on order. At RMAF a couple of years back I heard an Emerald Physics speaker (OB and designed by Clayton) with sealed subs and they sounded great. I recall reading that the Spatials are fine sounding even in poor rooms. Without enough knowledge to comment on your room, I still feel you will be delighted with your new Spatials and you will find them far superior to the Cornwalls.
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relating to the M4 (which has less bass extension), is there a negative effect associated with running a conventional sealed sub to augment the low bass?
I would do it. It would have more impact. But it better be a fast sub.
Rocket Ronny
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Since the ACIs are off the table now that leaves something like the REL T9/I or S2. Haven't tried one yet but the Rythmik F12SE may work also. The REL's are the closest thing to the ACIs which I know work. I would stick to sealed 10s or 12s at the outside with the ability to crossover below the standard 50 hz.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146320)
Regarding the design of these two models and more specifically relating to the M4 (which has less bass extension), is there a negative effect associated with running a conventional sealed sub to augment the low bass? Since the quality of OB bass is said to be unique due to the absence of an enclosure, is this quality compromised in anyway by supplementation with an external sub (ie defeating the purpose of the OB design re: bass response)?
Can't speak for the M4 , but even a modest pair of HSU VTF-1 MK.II subs work quite well with the M2 Turbos. Extremely versatile subs and plenty quick in "sealed" mode. ( 10" drivers) Open baffle bass signature fully maintained with added punch.
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BTW, not sure you will need or want subs with the M3's...
In no way do I find them lacking in the bass area.
George
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Also, just curious. Can you describe how long it was from the time you ordered to the time you received your speakers.
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Also, just curious. Can you describe how long it was from the time you ordered to the time you received your speakers.
I ordered mine last Monday and they shipped today. Clayton said that they were at about a 2 week turnaround but mine made it out quicker.
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Wow! That's pretty quick. Well, I ordered mine the Saturday before the 4th. Made me wonder if the holiday might back up the order fulfillment process. I'll look forward to hearing from your evaluation. Thanks.
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Also, just curious. Can you describe how long it was from the time you ordered to the time you received your speakers.
I think it was around 3 weeks.
Just shoot an email to Clayton and he will let you know.
George
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It was a few weeks for mine. No biggie.
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Good to hear. I guess I can handle a few weeks. Clayton told me a little over two. and then on another forum someone said "they heard the wait was out to months". So anyway, whether your timetable examples hold true in my case or not, this reminds me of one of the best things about this hobby. Or, one of the worst things. The anticipation. My wife says I'm like a kid waiting on Christmas morning. I'm okay with that. Also, FYI, I started a new thread regarding amps and the M3's. If you have any thoughts, please chime in. Jim
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I'm not surprised that you guys are enjoying these speakers. I found that OB designs are more realistic in terms of music reproduction, or what I consider to be realistic, and have put a halt to chasing the holy grail of traditional box speakers that require high powered (expensive) amplification. I no longer listening to equipment and spend my time listening to music, which is what it should be all about.
Reading through the posts on subwoofers - I'm curious what the science is behind adding a closed or ported sub to extend the bottom end of the Spatial's. Does this defeat the rationale for having OB's or is it a smart option? I really don't know the answer on this and curious to know if it's an issue or not...
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I hope the bass response on the M3's is sufficient. Good deep bass is something I miss sometimes in my current rig. And I agree on the sentiment I read into your response regarding the subs. If we use an enclosed sub with the OB, have we not then introduced something into the mix that then colors the sound of the OB's? Not saying this will necessarily sound bad. It just seems like it would surely change the end result. Of course this is me thinking out loud.
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I hope the bass response on the M3's is sufficient. Good deep bass is something I miss sometimes in my current rig. And I agree on the sentiment I read into your response regarding the subs. If we use an enclosed sub with the OB, have we not then introduced something into the mix that then colors the sound of the OB's? Not saying this will necessarily sound bad. It just seems like it would surely change the end result. Of course this is me thinking out loud.
Everybody is different, but I also have Vandy 5A's and I don't feel like I am missing anything in the bass department with the M3's.
That said, I am sure you could get a quality sub to add more to the bottom if you choose to. If i went this route, I would definitely keep it 50Hz and below. Of course, you could go with OB subs...
George
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Once I get them, guess I'll try mine as is for a few months or so. Thanks George.
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Having had a system that was nearly flat to 15Hz and now have only the M3's it's pretty shocking. I do have treatments and have tuned the room and placement of everything to yield the best. I'm not even done yet! I'm not missing the bottom end as what the M3's do provide in every other category is stunning. They're the most FUN speakers I've ever heard or owned. That's for damn sure!
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Now you're teasing me. But yeah, when I sit back and think about it, every time I've gone through this deal of breaking in new gear, it has always yielded benefits. One of which is the fun of listening; through not just some test tracks, but getting reacquainted with the whole music collection again. And not only that, but I usually find myself hungry for more music.... music that lets me test the boundaries again, as in thirsty for some new genre or updating ancient stuff to remastered renditions or listening to and for brand new artists. Yep, my wife's gonna need a second job!
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Has anyone had a chance to compare Spatial M3 with Emerald Physics KCII/KCII-PRO?
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Are they suitable for a 16'Lx 11'W x 9'H room? And how about using with a push pull tube amp?
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Are they suitable for a 16'Lx 11'W x 9'H room? And how about using with a push pull tube amp?
This is not too dissimilar from the dimensions of my room and I am using a small Audio Research amp to good effect. I think you will be pleased on both counts.
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Are they suitable for a 16'Lx 11'W x 9'H room? And how about using with a push pull tube amp?
Yes.
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I can't place them more than 1' away from side walls and 2' away from backwall. Sitting position is about 8' away. Is that ideal? I mostly listen to rock music. Also I read in the reviews that tube amp may not be ideal for them. I have a TRL ST-100 amp.
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Are they suitable for a 16'Lx 11'W x 9'H room? And how about using with a push pull tube amp?
Yes, that should be fine.
Assuming the tube amp puts out more than a handful of watts, you should be ok.
What amp??
George
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TRL ST-100 push pull using pair of KT-150 per channel. So the power should be adequate IMO. But I keep hearing SS is better pairing up with M3 turbo.
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I can't place them more than 1' away from side walls and 2' away from backwall. Sitting position is about 8' away. Is that ideal? I mostly listen to rock music. Also I read in the reviews that tube amp may not be ideal for them. I have a TRL ST-100 amp.
Yes, that will work. Ideal? Probably not but also not that far away from ideal and you will NOT be disappointed either. They really do ROCK!
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TRL ST-100 push pull using pair of KT-150 per channel. So the power should be adequate IMO. But I keep hearing SS is better pairing up with M3 turbo.
I think a quality amp of either type will sound good.
If you are really concerned, just send an email to Clayton Shaw and ask him to provide his opinion. He is a straight shooter and will let you know what he thinks.
Don't forget to let the speakers break in before passing final judgement.
Enjoy.
George
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TRL ST-100 push pull using pair of KT-150 per channel. So the power should be adequate IMO. But I keep hearing SS is better pairing up with M3 turbo.
Mick Wolfe likes class D with his M2's more than his ST70 tube amp - but that's in his TV room setup, not his main rig. I think he likes the way they rock out a bit more with the class D. But I had my M1's powered by 22 watts of 845 tubes to good effect. The impedance of the M3's are on the low end for tubes, so you just need to make sure your amp is cool with lower impedance loads and have healthy power supplies. I bet TRL is pretty overbuilt, so probably are fine. Sound-wise, the highs on the M3's will love the tubes, but the bass realm may not be as tight as you like - depending on your tastes. With quality solid state, you'll get tighter bass, but maybe not as refined of highs/midrange - depending - and probably better dynamics. They're high efficiency and very revealing speakers in terms of what electronics they're paired with. In a small room, I would bet dynamics will not be lacking with tubes, but hard to say what will work best in terms of bass.
Just some things to chew on...
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Mick Wolfe likes class D with his M2's more than his ST70 tube amp - but that's in his TV room setup, not his main rig. I think he likes the way they rock out a bit more with the class D. But I had my M1's powered by 22 watts of 845 tubes to good effect. The impedance of the M3's are on the low end for tubes, so you just need to make sure your amp is cool with lower impedance loads and have healthy power supplies. I bet TRL is pretty overbuilt, so probably are fine. Sound-wise, the highs on the M3's will love the tubes, but the bass realm may not be as tight as you like - depending on your tastes. With quality solid state, you'll get tighter bass, but maybe not as refined of highs/midrange - depending - and probably better dynamics. They're high efficiency and very revealing speakers in terms of what electronics they're paired with. In a small room, I would bet dynamics will not be lacking with tubes, but hard to say what will work best in terms of bass.
Just some things to chew on...
I am very, very happy with M4's driven with an 8-watt 300B SET amp. But that doesn’t mean I don't occasionally wonder what it would sound like with more firepower. :lol:
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I am very, very happy with M4's driven with an 8-watt 300B SET amp. But that doesn’t mean I don't occasionally wonder what it would sound like with more firepower. :lol:
What's your location?
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rebbi
It would be fuller and tighter in the bass regions.
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What's your location?
Central Texas.
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Central Texas.
Ah, not that close and no plans of going there where I can bring some amps. Oh well. I'm sure others are closer though.
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Mick Wolfe likes class D with his M2's more than his ST70 tube amp - but that's in his TV room setup, not his main rig. I think he likes the way they rock out a bit more with the class D. But I had my M1's powered by 22 watts of 845 tubes to good effect. The impedance of the M3's are on the low end for tubes, so you just need to make sure your amp is cool with lower impedance loads and have healthy power supplies. I bet TRL is pretty overbuilt, so probably are fine. Sound-wise, the highs on the M3's will love the tubes, but the bass realm may not be as tight as you like - depending on your tastes. With quality solid state, you'll get tighter bass, but maybe not as refined of highs/midrange - depending - and probably better dynamics. They're high efficiency and very revealing speakers in terms of what electronics they're paired with. In a small room, I would bet dynamics will not be lacking with tubes, but hard to say what will work best in terms of bass.
Just some things to chew on...
Very helpful post Genjamon! Sent you a PM.
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Any M3/M4 owner in NYC area willing to demo the speaker?
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Any M3/M4 owner in Seattle/Tacoma/Portland area willing to provide a demo to an honest audiophile? I'm in Gig Harbor near Tacoma.
Jeff
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I ordered a pair of M3 Turbo S couple days ago, they should be here around Sept. 6th. I had a long phone conversation with Clayton and I'm really looking forward to these speakers.
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I ordered a pair of M3 Turbo S couple days ago, they should be here around Sept. 6th. I had a long phone conversation with Clayton and I'm really looking forward to these speakers.
Congrats!!
George
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I ordered a pair of M3 Turbo S couple days ago, they should be here around Sept. 6th. I had a long phone conversation with Clayton and I'm really looking forward to these speakers.
You are going to love the way Brownie sounds on your new M3's. I'm listening to Joy Spring for the umpteenth time right now on my M4's and that sweet, strong articulate tone comes through like never before.
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Beautiful, Joy Spring so good!
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A friend asked if I was going to try the Velocity Bridge with my Spatial's. I never gave it a thought but said I'd ask here if anyone is using them or thought about it.
http://www.spatialaudio.us/velocity-bridge/
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A friend asked if I was going to try the Velocity Bridge with my Spatial's. I never gave it a thought but said I'd ask here if anyone is using them or thought about it.
Have you asked Clayton what he thinks about adding the bridge to M3s?
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A friend asked if I was going to try the Velocity Bridge with my Spatial's. I never gave it a thought but said I'd ask here if anyone is using them or thought about it.
http://www.spatialaudio.us/velocity-bridge/
I asked Clayton about the VBs. I wish I could remember his explanation but basically he said they are not needed for his speakers because he designed his speakers to avoid the issue the VBs are meant to mitigate. I also think he said they don't work on electrostatic speakers. They might prove useful on other brands.
But if you are serious about them, check with Clayton and don't trust my faultiy memory. If someone knows the technical details, please chime in.
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I asked Clayton about the VBs. I wish I could remember his explanation but basically he said they are not needed for his speakers because he designed his speakers to avoid the issue the VBs are meant to mitigate. I also think he said they don't work on electrostatic speakers. They might prove useful on other brands.
But if you are serious about them, check with Clayton and don't trust my faultiy memory. If someone knows the technical details, please chime in.
The Velocity Bridge is for loudspeakers that have an inductive rise in their impedance response in the higher frequencies. Some loudspeaker designers compensate for that with a network, others do not. So it FLATTENS the impedance in the higher frequencies. Here is an example of an impedance curve where the VB would be of benefit-> See Figure 1 or 2: http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-excite-x12-loudspeaker-measurements#tcy2Lb0ckZOXTdeE.97
and -> http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/607WILFIG03.jpg
Here is one where it would NOT be of benefit -> http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/theC24FIG1.jpg
And-> http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1238:nrc-measurements-revel-performa3-f206-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153
Or even -> http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=941:nrc-measurements-kef-ls50-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153
So unless you have made an impedance measurement of your loudspeaker or have published measurements, you have no idea. Yes, you can measure this right at home.
As you can see the cost of the loudspeaker is immaterial. Some include this network and some don't.
Amplifiers that have HIGH output impedances (like greater than 1 ohm) will benefit more. An example would be a SET 300B design and perhaps the Pass F2 or F3. An amplifier like the NCore 400 for example would probably not benefit as its output impedance is about 1 milliohm from 20-20khz. That's 0.001 ohm. Your speaker cable will influence it more than anything else in that scenario!
Best,
Anand.
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Anand,
If there was a "Thanks for the Post" button I would have clicked it. Thanks for the education. :thumb:
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Yes Anand, many thanks.
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Anand, Clearly stated and easy to understand. Thank you. :thumb:
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Finally was able to do proper burn in and now I am starting to fool with placement. It's been a bit difficult. My left speaker is slightly closer to the sidewall and it required sharper toe-in on that speaker to fix the image in the center. Took a long time to figure that out. Not crazy about the aesthetics but the sound is great.
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Hi Guys,
some words from Germany about my M3 turbo S. I have them up and running for nearly 3 months now. Unfortunately I don't have a LIO. I used to have a Signature 16 from Vinnie which was very nice with my former Zu Soul Supremes. LIO unfortunately is too expensive for my budget.
After about 70 hours of break in I used them with four different amplifiers. First I tried a 300B Trafomatic Experience II SET and was a bit disappointed. Especially voices lacked the richness that they had when using this amp with WLM Divas and Zu Soul Supremes. The low end was a bit poor too. Okay, 8 watts per channel. I then switched over to a Melody EL 34 tube amp. With 2x50 Watts it has plenty of power but when played at higher levels it started to make unwanted noises. My guess is that M3s extremely high impedance at 1-2 kHz ( up to 200 Ohms ) is the reason that the EL34 valves acted that strange. After that I was done with tube amps in combination with the M3s.
I then hooked up a Class T amp which here in Germany is quite famous when being paired to Klipsch speakers. It is a chinese brand and here we call it "Poppy T-180". With this amp voices became sweet and the low end extremely deep. Hard to believe how deep these speakers go. But the soundstage was sort of limited. There was not much space between instruments.
I was sure that there has to be an amp who could do better and after some consideration I bought a Hegel H-160 for a special price during a sale of a big dealer in the Netherlands. I liked that it has a very good DAC built in and with 2 x 150 Watts at 8 ohm and 2 x 250 Watts at 4 ohm it has lots of power. And it has a damping factor of more than 1000. The bass this combo emits is insane. The soundstage is huge and all instruments are perfectly separated. The near live experience of this combo is shocking. It even got better when I removed the bass traps I used to use with all my prior speakers. My guess is that they are counter productive when using open baffle bass systems. At least they were in my room. As I saw some of you also use bass traps it could be worth a try to remove them and step away from the perfect room that is necessary for standard speaker concepts.
The only thing that remains is that mids are not as detailed as I was used to when listening to WLM or Zu. Sometimes when listening to songs which I know very well there is a lack of midrange information. Effects that I clearly remember from the past are less audible with the M3 turbo S. Maybe it's just because there is so much overall information and dynamics. Hard to tell.
What do you think about the midrange of the M3s? Are you satisfied?
The speakers are much more expensive in my country. With taxes, transportation and dealer profit they cost about 4,800 dollars here. But a Zu Soul Supreme is close to 9,000 dollars in Germany :-) If there was a bit more mid range details the cheaper M3 definitely would be the best speakers I had so far. And I had lots :-)
cheers
Jan
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Where did all the talk go??
Germany speaks and all go silent.
Just sold my MBL 121 speakers and have ordered the M3s.
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Where did all the talk go??
Germany speaks and all go silent.
Just sold my MBL 121 speakers and have ordered the M3s.
Too busy listening and enjoying the music. :dance: :dance:
Plus, I already stated that the midrange is excellent - open, detailed, holographic, with great depth and presence.
George
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Where did all the talk go??
Germany speaks and all go silent.
Just sold my MBL 121 speakers and have ordered the M3s.
A warm welcome to AudioCircle 2glory.
Guy 13 on planet Vietnam.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148823)
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Where did all the talk go??
Germany speaks and all go silent.
Just sold my MBL 121 speakers and have ordered the M3s.
Now this is interesting!!!
I'd really like to hear what you have to say, especially as MBLs are omni all the way to the top and M3s dipoles "only" to 800 Hz. Bass wise I don't think M3 could go bad against ported box.
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"The only thing that remains is that mids are not as detailed as I was used to when listening to WLM or Zu. Sometimes when listening to songs which I know very well there is a lack of midrange information. Effects that I clearly remember from the past are less audible with the M3 turbo S. Maybe it's just because there is so much overall information and dynamics. Hard to tell.
What do you think about the midrange of the M3s? Are you satisfied?"
Jan from Germany posed this fascinating question. Although I have M4's I believe they are close enough to the M3's that I can venture an opinion.
Jan, the short answer is I am very satisfied with the midrange. But it is quite different from WLM's (which I have also owned) and from most other box speakers for that matter. The first thing to note is that the midrange resolution is going to be affected by proper placement. And, at least in my case, it took a fair amount of time and experimentation to get that just right in my room. Secondly, once you get them properly set up, you should notice two things about the mids (1) they are more laid back or recessed sonically than what you may be used to - the entire sound field is nicely spread out between and behind the speakers so is really the opposite of "in your face" (like WLM's for example - and I don't mean this as a slam against WLM's). (2) The mids may strike you as being a bit "down" in level in comparison but you should notice right away that you are getting more - substantially more - information that ever before, not less. A perfect example of this is the "The Panther" on Jennifer Warnes CD The Well. I love Warnes and have listened to this cut dozens of times. At the beginning there is a series of drum kit effects (rattles, gourds, etc.) behind the singer which are designed to enhance the songs aura of primitive mystery. On every system I've owned these effects audibly fade away once she's into the body of the song. On the Spatials I was amazed to hear that these effects continue throughout the piece - just at a lower level as her voice comes forward. Furthermore, they are clearly mixed in to cover the entire sound stage with an eerie 3D effect. You can relax and listen to them throughout the cut or ignore them and focus on Warnes and her back up band. This is the kind of midrange you get with the Spatial Holograms. It has added a terrific amount of enjoyment to my listening sessions. The usual caveats about your mileage, etc. apply, of course.
Cheers,
Bill
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I have owned the M3 Turbo S speakers for about 2 1/2 months now and they are like a fine acoustic guitar, they get better with age and time on them. I have been into audio all my life and these speaker really are where its at as far as I'm concerned. The bass takes time to develop and is probably the last thing that comes alive as they break in. They really have a realistic bass. I have been a musician for years as a hobby and have played guitar and bass and it is really awesome that I can really here the bass guitar in my music like never before. With my other speakers they were just a lifeless boom or bass note and note the instrument, but the M3's really make the bass guitar come alive. The M3's just sound like music at the venue which is what I was after and have been searching for for a long time now
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I was using a modest PC driving Yggdrasil to an EAR Yoshino V20 integrated amp that sports 30 tubes, including 10 12AX7s per channel as power tubes. I thought it sounded great. Bob was in agreement.
ray
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Sorry about the double posts, I was trying to load text and pic from my phone
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150820)
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I wonder how many people can say Bob Carver said my rig sounds great..... :thumb:
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I order the M3 Turbo S, I should have them by the end of the week
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Hi George,
Just checking back into this thread for your long term results. Do you still have your Spatials and also your Vandys?
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...once you get them properly set up, you should notice two things about the mids (1) they are more laid back or recessed ... the opposite of "in your face"
I find this depends very much on the character of the amplifier and not so much the speakers. Some amps are more aggressive and in your face while others are more laid back and distant.